Western Bulldogs savage AFL over alleged Talia leak

[NoseBleed]

Herald Sun, October 17, 2016,

Michael Warner, Herald Sun

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/western-bulldogs-savage-afl-over-alleged-talia-leak/news-story/13151999cb4f0e8872c92432d0309b93


EXCLUSIVE: SECRET Western Bulldogs documents detail explosive undisclosed claims about the leaking of inside information to the Adelaide Crows before last year’s elimination final.


The Herald Sun can reveal Bulldogs chiefs informed the AFL they had obtained “independent corroboration” of allegations that disaffected Dogs defender Michael Talia leaked parts of the team’s game plan to his brother, star Adelaide backman Daniel Talia, in the days before the match.

The Talias, who have always maintained their innocence, were cleared by the AFL last November after a 63-day integrity unit investigation.


But a letter and submission from the Bulldogs to the AFL, obtained by the Herald Sun, expose the Dogs’ fury at the league’s handling of the probe and its exoneration of the brothers.


“There is a clearly sufficient basis for the AFL to find that there was an improper communication of confidential information,” Western Bulldogs president Peter Gordon asserted in the club’s damning submission to the league.


The documents reveal witness testimony that Michael Talia was “angry and resentful that he had been excluded from the WBFC team for the final” before talking to his brother.

And the Dogs were scathing of the AFL for accepting the explanations of players at the centre of the scandal rather than the views of coach Luke Beveridge and list manager Jason McCartney. Beveridge was prepared to go “on oath” about conversations with Crows defender Kyle Cheney.


The morning after the final, *!Cheney told his Hawthorn mate, Ben Stratton, and later Beveridge that *!Michael Talia had leaked game tactics to the Crows.


But 12 days later, in a change of story accepted by AFL investigators, Cheney claimed he was only “joking”, despite Beveridge’s view the original claims were real. The assertion of a “joke” was critical to the ultimate finding that there was no cheating.


Documents reveal the Dogs dismissed the “practical joke” explan*!ation outright, as an “invention”.


The AFL should be concerned that Cheney had been “participating in a cover-up”, the Bulldogs said, adding: “His behaviour is disgraceful and *!inappropriate.”

Documents reveal the Dogs said they had “obtained a degree of independent corroboration” of the Talia allegations from a conversation between McCartney and the father of Crows defender Jake Lever, four days after the Bulldogs’ seven-point loss in the September 12 knockout final. Al Lever later accused McCartney of “ fabricating the story”.


Damning allegations that the Crows were made aware of an “unusual role” to be played by Dogs forward Tory Dickson in the MCG match, as well as of plans for Bulldogs star Jake Stringer, were also detailed.

And the Herald Sun can reveal Bulldogs assistant coach Steven King and Adelaide backline coach Darren Milburn were alleged to have deleted text messages relating to the Talia allegations.


This occurred after the AFL was asked to investigate, but before they were asked for the messages. No AFL findings were made against the coaches.

In further claims within the Dogs documents, not disclosed by the AFL in its publicly released summary of findings into the Talia matter:


CHENEY admitted telling Stratton that Daniel Talia had given Adelaide “a heads-up about the Bulldogs game plan and knew a couple of things about the Bulldogs game plan” and the information had come from Michael Talia;


AN AFL investigator told Dogs chiefs he “thought nothing of it” after Michael Talia claimed to have lost his phone and Daniel deleted his texts — actions the Dogs described as “matters for deep concern and suspicion” and potential civil or criminal acts; and


THE Bulldogs were denied access to witness statements from key Adelaide figures.


In the October 14 letter to the AFL, Gordon said the club had lost faith in the league integrity unit’s ability to carry out the Talia investigation.


In a November 12 submission, he wrote: “WBFC does not accept the truthfulness of the Talias’ explanation for the loss of their phone records as they have alleged.


That both brothers would lose access to this evidence in all the circumstances described simply does not pass the smell test.”


The Dogs asserted that Cheney told Stratton and Beveridge that Michael Talia had leaked the information because he was “over the Bulldogs and wanted out”.


“This anger provided a motive for his improper disclosure,” Gordon said.


The AFL’s summary of findings concluded Cheney was “in shock on both occasions that he spoke to … Bev*!eridge and was too embarrassed to explain what had occurred”.


After the November ruling, the Dogs said they were “troubled by certain aspects” of the investigation.


Michael Talia, traded to Sydney last October, admitted cocaine possession in August.


michael.warner@news.com.au

[bulldogtragic]

And we will use Talia's pick 74 to secure Travis Cloke. And it's a big win for us.

TBH I'm not sure why it's getting a run, it serves no one any good now.

[Twodogs]

And we will use Talia's pick 74 to secure Travis Cloke. And it's a big win for us.

TBH I'm not sure why it's getting a run, it serves no one any good now.


Because if parts of it are true people at commission level will have to resign and others would face criminal charges.

[bulldogtragic]

Because if parts of it are true people at commission level will have to resign and others would face criminal charges.

You can punch Vince McMahon in the face backstage, and as satisfying as that is, Vince & chronies will still run the joint. The only difference is that they will hold much bad blood about this being public.

[Twodogs]

You can punch Vince McMahon in the face backstage, and as satisfying as that is, Vince & chronies will still run the joint. The only difference is that they will hold much bad blood about this being public.



Good old Vince. He made the pies cheaper. Good news if you like pies.

[jazzadogs]

The full pdf documents are available on the Herald Sun article. You can tell they've been written by PG, I love it.

My favourite part is the confirmation that it was the THIRD time for the year that M Talia had 'lost' his phone when requested it for club or AFL use. Given the events of Michael's 2016, that certainly interests me.

The timing is shocking, but this matter deserved a more complete resolution than what it got last year.

[Scraggers]

I'm glad we are not laying down and accepting the bullshit Talia(x2) dealt and got away with. The truth is out there !!

[Throughandthrough]

If we had won this match, we would have had a much harder draw this year. Hooray

[Topdog]

Looks like we didn't leak it.

http://m.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/2016-10-17/club-statement

[LostDoggy]

I actually enjoyed seeing this. The AFEL sweeping it under the never ending rug was pathetic and I'm glad the club took them to task about it.

[bornadog]

Looks like we didn't leak it.

http://m.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/2016-10-17/club-statement

I wonder who leaked the documents.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Western Bulldogs 2016 Premiers.

Michael Talia convicted for drug possession.

Justice served. The leaking of these documents or not, we all knew the investigation by the AFL was a complete cover-up. These are some serious allegations and both Talia brothers should have served at least 1-year bans, although in Michael's case it would hardly even matter given how inept he is at anything, especially football.

Let's just move on. We got what we wanted more than anything :)

[Bulldog4life]

The most interesting part of the story is who leaked this information from the Western Bulldogs?

[G-Mo77]

Time to tar and feather some of these corrupt scum working at headquarters.

[GVGjr]

Peter Gordon will be on SEN shortly.

[ledge]

What did PG have to say ?

[GVGjr]

"We found out from the Herald Sun on Friday that they had these documents. We're disappointed they've seen the light of day"
"We deeply regret that it's come out today. We had no part in it."
"It's our side of the story. We don't have the powers to investigate the other side like the AFL does."

[Grantysghost]

The irony in using "obtained" documents to reveal a snapshot of information regarding allegedly "obtained" game plan information is indeed quite humorous to me.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

The strangest part of all this to me is the text messages. Just because a text was deleted of a phone doesn't mean it's gone

[bornadog]

What did PG have to say ?

Listen here (https://audioboom.com/boos/5170622-peter-gordon-on-hungry-for-sport?t=0)

[ledge]

AFL put it in the too hard basket because of all the ramifications that would happen if true .. Players fined or suspended . Crows kicked out of finals when by the time the investigaton was done they have already played the next game and it doesn't allow us back in , sueing and court cases left right and centre .. All
To hard just find it not Guilty and move on.

[LostDoggy]

I'm still kinda salty on this but then I look at Talia as a footballer/ drug possession and I'm good again haha.

[Sedat]

I'm personally very glad that this has seen the light of day, especially as it was not leaked by us. We can take the moral high ground about accepting the final findings 12 months ago and publicly condemning this leak, and at the same time the AFL has been exposed as the grubby cover-up merchants that they are. They are so obviously beholden to the almighty gambling dollar and will do anything to cover up anything that might expose the competition to improper conduct that the gambling organisations can use against it.

[hujsh]

I'd have preferred this come out after the fixture is decided for next year

[Sedat]

https://audioboom.com/boos/5170629-grant-thomas-criticises-the-way-the-afl-handled-the-talia-investigation

GT goes whooshka - he's 100% correct as well.

[Twodogs]

Western Bulldogs 2016 Premiers.

Michael Talia convicted for drug possession.

Justice served. The leaking of these documents or not, we all knew the investigation by the AFL was a complete cover-up. These are some serious allegations and both Talia brothers should have served at least 1-year bans, although in Michael's case it would hardly even matter given how inept he is at anything, especially football.

Let's just move on. We got what we wanted more than anything :)


Yep. Dignified silence is the way ahead here, PG has done the media rounds and put our side of this report and now it's time to shut up and let the silent spaces get filled up by others.


AFL put it in the too hard basket because of all the ramifications that would happen if true .. Players fined or suspended . Crows kicked out of finals when by the time the investigaton was done they have already played the next game and it doesn't allow us back in , sueing and court cases left right and centre .. All
To hard just find it not Guilty and move on.


I always thought this would come out. You know what else they won't be able to keep secret? Essendon's wilful rorting of the salary cap this year, that's what. Essendon think they have solved their problem but what they have actually done is to create a much larger problem for themselves further down the track.

[Eastdog]

I'd have preferred this come out after the fixture is decided for next year

At least it's out now and not during the season so that's ok. We are premiers now so I'm still in celebration mode :)

[Topdog]

https://audioboom.com/boos/5170629-grant-thomas-criticises-the-way-the-afl-handled-the-talia-investigation

GT goes whooshka - he's 100% correct as well.

HAHAHAHAHA a brand analysis impact, lift the carpet and whoosha. Brilliant brilliant stuff by GT

[ledge]

HAHAHAHAHA a brand analysis impact, lift the carpet and whoosha. Brilliant brilliant stuff by GT

Along with the hump that's already there :-)

[Greystache]

This is classic AFL, hold a mock investigation/tribunal and announce findings that suit their own interests. Their biggest problem is the public is more savvy than they give them credit for, and some of their convenient findings are so transparently amateur that they're laughable.

Yet there's still people out there (Slobbo front and centre) that want to accept the findings of the AFL tribunal that Essendon didn't dope, and call CAS (and now the Swiss Federal Court) kangaroo courts. You'd be hard placed to find an organisation in the Western World with less intergrity than the AFL, yet when an outcome suits their agenda some people are all too willing to accept their findings.

The playbook for any AFL investigation;

1) Determine the outcome that best protects the AFL brand

2) Look for evidence to support that outcome

3) Ignore any evidence that might prove contrary to the outcome you want

4) If no evidence exists to support your outcome, claim the information is private and cannot be released

5) Hold a press conference to announce you've investigated the issue fully and there's nothing to see

6) Punish an arms length scapegoat to show you took the matter seriously, but again reassure the public that even though you're punishing said scapegoat, no one did anything wrong.

7) When questioned about the laughable findings, fake outrage that your integrity is being questions, then secretly threaten anyone who continues to challenge the findings.

[Twodogs]

I think part of the tragedy in all this is Harvey Stevens missed out on a bulldog premiership because his grandsons looked him in the eyes and lied to him. He (naturally) took the side of family and not the club. While I understand that family come first and you dont want to face up to the fact that you have helped raise two lying, cheating and ungrateful grandchildren who happily stood by and watched (even more they actually participated in) the fracturing of something that must have meant so much to Harvey through the years. How does he feel when the full story comes out and he realizes that he could have been a huge part of the greatest year in the clubs history but missed out because he has particularly ungrateful and dishonest grandsons?

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Sadly Harvey Stevens was discharged from Knox Private Hospital this morning with terminal cancer. What a thrill it was for the AFL to invite Harvey and his wife together with 5 remaining members of our 1954 Premiership team and their wives to the 'G' for our second flag.

[Sedat]

This is classic AFL, hold a mock investigation/tribunal and announce findings that suit their own interests. Their biggest problem is the public is more savvy than they give them credit for, and some of their convenient findings are so transparently amateur that they're laughable.

Yet there's still people out there (Slobbo front and centre) that want to accept the findings of the AFL tribunal that Essendon didn't dope, and call CAS (and now the Swiss Federal Court) kangaroo courts. You'd be hard placed to find an organisation in the Western World with less intergrity than the AFL, yet when an outcome suits their agenda some people are all too willing to accept their findings.

The playbook for any AFL investigation;

1) Determine the outcome that best protects the AFL brand

2) Look for evidence to support that outcome

3) Ignore any evidence that might prove contrary to the outcome you want

4) If no evidence exists to support your outcome, claim the information is private and cannot be released

5) Hold a press conference to announce you've investigated the issue fully and there's nothing to see

6) Punish an arms length scapegoat to show you took the matter seriously, but again reassure the public that even though you're punishing said scapegoat, no one did anything wrong.

7) When questioned about the laughable findings, fake outrage that your integrity is being questions, then secretly threaten anyone who continues to challenge the findings.

8) Rinse and repeat

What a brilliant summation of the AFL modus operandi 'stache. You could apply every single issue and faux-investigation in the last 10 years and follow the exact steps to the letter.

[bulldogtragic]

8) Rinse and repeat

What a brilliant summation of the AFL modus operandi 'stache. You could apply every single issue and faux-investigation in the last 10 years and follow the exact steps to the letter.

9. Offer help, access and support to, or leak directly to any accredited journos who attack the threat to the brand. Have them attack the club, the president and coach to discredit them and embarrass them and the position they hold in presenting a threat to the brand. Hope that the general public lap up the public attacks and believe the dross their fed.

[chef]

Did the leak come from us?

[bornadog]

Sadly Harvey Stevens was discharged from Knox Private Hospital this morning with terminal cancer. What a thrill it was for the AFL to invite Harvey and his wife together with 5 remaining members of our 1954 Premiership team and their wives to the 'G' for our second flag.

Great to hear he was involved, sorry to hear the great man has cancer.

[bornadog]

This is classic AFL, hold a mock investigation/tribunal and announce findings that suit their own interests. Their biggest problem is the public is more savvy than they give them credit for, and some of their convenient findings are so transparently amateur that they're laughable.

Yet there's still people out there (Slobbo front and centre) that want to accept the findings of the AFL tribunal that Essendon didn't dope, and call CAS (and now the Swiss Federal Court) kangaroo courts. You'd be hard placed to find an organisation in the Western World with less intergrity than the AFL, yet when an outcome suits their agenda some people are all too willing to accept their findings.

The playbook for any AFL investigation;

1) Determine the outcome that best protects the AFL brand

2) Look for evidence to support that outcome

3) Ignore any evidence that might prove contrary to the outcome you want

4) If no evidence exists to support your outcome, claim the information is private and cannot be released

5) Hold a press conference to announce you've investigated the issue fully and there's nothing to see

6) Punish an arms length scapegoat to show you took the matter seriously, but again reassure the public that even though you're punishing said scapegoat, no one did anything wrong.

7) When questioned about the laughable findings, fake outrage that your integrity is being questions, then secretly threaten anyone who continues to challenge the findings.

AFEL's response to released documents:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cu8hbX7UEAAOdlh.jpg:large

[1eyedog]

AFEL's response to released documents:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cu8hbX7UEAAOdlh.jpg:large

I've got no freaking idea what that statement even means. It's a template response straight outta Canberra

[Jeanette54]

Also on the point of protecting the AFL brand, I would have liked to see the results of the AFL investigation into the alleged AFL tipping off of Essendon, prior to the whole drugs saga.

It appears that the idea of the AFL investigating the AFL seems to be not much better than that of any mid eighties NSW Police enquiries into the NSW Police.

[bornadog]

Also on the point of protecting the AFL brand, I would have liked to see the results of the AFL investigation into the alleged AFL tipping off of Essendon, prior to the whole drugs saga.

It appears that the idea of the AFL investigating the AFL seems to be not much better than that of any mid eighties NSW Police enquiries into the NSW Police.

What about the allegations Whitfield dodged the drug test? Haven't heard a peep.

[The bulldog tragician]

What about the allegations Whitfield dodged the drug test? Haven't heard a peep.

That will be buried, perhaps released on Xmas Eve. But the outcome was decided months ago, of course.

Just imagine if, instead of our victory against GWS, Whitfield had kicked the sealer and then they won the flag.

Talk about tainted.

[azabob]

Did the leak come from us?

I wonder that myself.

Mick Warner certainly isn't afraid to kick against the wind with the AFEL. Maybe he actually is Mick Foly aka Mankind...

[Eastdog]

This certainly should not surprised anyone about the organisation of the AFL.

[LostDoggy]

This certainly should not surprised anyone about the organisation of the AFL.
Or the Dis-Organisation of the AFEL Easty;)

[LostDoggy]

I wonder that myself.

Mick Warner certainly isn't afraid to kick against the wind with the AFEL. Maybe he actually is Mick Foly aka Mankind...

Mad respect for Mick Warner. I really hope his career is allowed to prosper.

[Twodogs]

Sadly Harvey Stevens was discharged from Knox Private Hospital this morning with terminal cancer. What a thrill it was for the AFL to invite Harvey and his wife together with 5 remaining members of our 1954 Premiership team and their wives to the 'G' for our second flag.


Sorry to hear about Harvey and hope he is comfortable.

Did he make it to the Grand Final do you know?

[Rocket Science]

While the club continues move on from this as an issue, please enjoy this image of Michael in a bikini circa the AFEL's website.

https://s13.postimg.org/hvee70fdj/Screen_Shot_2016_10_18_at_9_34_43_AM.png[/url]

[Twodogs]

Too late for privacy Daniel. You should have thought of that before you chose to tell lies.

This is not going away.

[KT31]

While the club continues move on from this as an issue, please enjoy this image of Michael in a bikini circa the AFEL's website.

https://s13.postimg.org/hvee70fdj/Screen_Shot_2016_10_18_at_9_34_43_AM.png[/url]

Just out of shot there are two blokes from the drug squad chasing him.;)

[hujsh]

Too late for privacy Daniel. You should have thought of that before you put on that 'shirt'.

This is not going away.

Edited for accuracy

[LostDoggy]

Not sure about the timing of this, but I'm glad the documents have been released and I do hope that heads roll.

However Peter Gordon is no fool and knows that negotiations on a new stadium deal are about to take place, not the best time to be making the AFL look foolish. So the line "we have accepted the outcomes of that investigation, and have moved on" is the official line.

[ledge]

Not sure about the timing of this, but I'm glad the documents have been released and I do hope that heads roll.

However Peter Gordon is no fool and knows that negotiations on a new stadium deal are about to take place, not the best time to be making the AFL look foolish. So the line "we have accepted the outcomes of that investigation, and have moved on" is the official line.

I have no idea how those two things are related ,stadium deal and the Talia scandal have no bearing on the other at all.

[jeemak]

The plea for privacy via Instagram coupled with a highly emotive photo is a clear act to garner sympathy.

I feel for Harvey and his family - brothers Talia included. It just seems the latter live in an alternate reality in which they think their bullshit passes.

[LostDoggy]

I have no idea how those two things are related ,stadium deal and the Talia scandal have no bearing on the other at all.

You're right, as long as we don't stir the pot.

[Sedat]

The plea for privacy via Instagram coupled with a highly emotive photo is a clear act to garner sympathy.

I feel for Harvey and his family - brothers Talia included. It just seems the latter live in an alternate reality in which they think their bullshit passes.
Am I too harsh to suggest that it is very cynical and distasteful in the extreme to use your grandfather's fight against cancer to garner public sympathy whilst at the same time requesting privacy? I am not doubting the obvious love between grandsons and grandfather, but there was no need whatsoever to link the cancer fight with the 2015 investigation other than to try and come up smelling roses for their behaviour last year.

[bulldogtragic]

While the club continues move on from this as an issue, please enjoy this image of Michael in a bikini circa the AFEL's website.

https://s13.postimg.org/hvee70fdj/Screen_Shot_2016_10_18_at_9_34_43_AM.png[/url]

That's actually the official police photo at the scene of his cocaine arrest in that dark Sydney laneway. :D

[jeemak]

Am I too harsh to suggest that it is very cynical and distasteful in the extreme to use your grandfather's fight against cancer to garner public sympathy whilst at the same time requesting privacy? I am not doubting the obvious love between grandsons and grandfather, but there was no need whatsoever to link the cancer fight with the 2015 investigation other than to try and come up smelling roses for their behaviour last year.

It's probably one of those things that's easy to see from the outside looking in, and potentially not from the inside looking out. I'd like to think I'd take a different route in the same situation.

[comrade]

Am I too harsh to suggest that it is very cynical and distasteful in the extreme to use your grandfather's fight against cancer to garner public sympathy whilst at the same time requesting privacy? I am not doubting the obvious love between grandsons and grandfather, but there was no need whatsoever to link the cancer fight with the 2015 investigation other than to try and come up smelling roses for their behaviour last year.

The whole 'my grandfather told me nothing gets between family' angle was a little on the nose, IMO.

Who is advising the Talia brothers? Max Markson or Ricky Nixon?

[bulldogtragic]

BT's Breaking News: Michael Talia asked for a trade back to the Western Bulldogs just before the 2pm deadline. Talia believed that the Western Bulldogs landed awesome Coke, and that it was around the club for virtually nothing.

[Twodogs]

Very good.

We might leave the Talia Coke jokes for a bit. That's mostly because I wanted to say Coke joke but hes probably had enough.

[westdog54]

Very good.

We might leave the Talia Coke jokes for a bit. That's mostly because I wanted to say Coke joke but hes probably had enough.

Had enough of the jokes or...