The Wrap Up

[bulldogtragic]

Pick 18
Pick 26
Pick 50
Pick 75
Pick 76 - For Cloke.

2017:

Swap 3rd for North 3rd
Swap 4th for North 4th
Swap 4th (from North) for St Kilda 5th (potential 20 pick downgrade or more)
- So 1st, 2nd, 3rd (North) & 5th (St Kilda)

If we want to use 75 this year, we need to find another delisting.

[G-Mo77]

61 is gone.

[bulldogtragic]

61 is gone.

Updated, 75.

[hujsh]

Pick 18
Pick 26
Pick 50
Pick 75
Pick 76 - For Cloke.

2017:

Swap 3rd for North 3rd
Swap 4th for North 4th
Swap 5th for St Kilda 4th

If we want to use 75, we need to find another delisting.

Believe it's Norths 4th for St.Kilda's 5th

[bulldogtragic]

Believe it's Norths 4th for St.Kilda's 5th

Yep, fixed.

[SlimPickens]

Happy with that. Like having pick 18 and 26.
Cloke provides a tall target in the forward line.
Losing Hamling hurt but really pleased we were able to turn that situation into a mid 20's pick.

3 live picks in the draft

[bulldogsthru&thru]

So with trade period finished, what are our list needs assuming whoever we draft will take a couple years to get going?

1. Ruck depth
2. Key defenders
3. Some speed and polish (although we looked fairly polished in the finals)

[Ozza]

So with trade period finished, what are our list needs assuming whoever we draft will take a couple years to get going?

1. Ruck depth
2. Key defenders
3. Some speed and polish (although we looked fairly polished in the finals)

Hope JMac and the team have identified a mature aged ruck and mature aged key defender to go onto the rookie list.

Injuries to any combination of Boyd, Roughead, Campbell, Roberts and Adams - start to put us under some pressure.

[Sedat]

We just won a flag with a host of injuries throughout the season and very little contribution throughout the year from both Stevens and Hrovat. We get Adams, Crameri and Murphy back all next year fully fit - Wallis and Redders later in the season. We lose Hamling and gain Cloke, and we've improved our draft position both this year (2nd and 3rd round) and next year (3rd round).

Not a sexy trade period but far from a disaster either.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Hope JMac and the team have identified a mature aged ruck and mature aged key defender to go onto the rookie list.

Injuries to any combination of Boyd, Roughead, Campbell, Roberts and Adams - start to put us under some pressure.

With Boyd, Murph and Morris set to retire at the end of next year or 2018, we need to sure up our back stocks

[westdog54]

Williams, R. Smith and Collins all developing in the meantime. Plus this year's draft and next year's trade period.

[Mofra]

Still want us to go best available for our first two picks, we'll end up with a genuine quick mid (a Galluchi type) and at 26 a smart running forward like a Hayward or a Ben Long.
Not much in the way of tall talent this draft, next year there is apparently.

[comrade]

We just won a flag with a host of injuries throughout the season and very little contribution throughout the year from both Stevens and Hrovat. We get Adams, Crameri and Murphy back all next year fully fit - Wallis and Redders later in the season. We lose Hamling and gain Cloke, and we've improved our draft position both this year (2nd and 3rd round) and next year (3rd round).

Not a sexy trade period but far from a disaster either.

Yep, it's about as far away from a disaster as you can get.

Just a solid trade period where we used our very limited uncontracted trade assets to improve our draft position.

[comrade]

Still want us to go best available for our first two picks, we'll end up with a genuine quick mid (a Galluchi type) and at 26 a smart running forward like a Hayward or a Ben Long.
Not much in the way of tall talent this draft, next year there is apparently.

I'm hoping Long lasts until 50.

[G-Mo77]

Yep, it's about as far away from a disaster as you can get.

Just a solid trade period where we used our very limited uncontracted trade assets to improve our draft position.

I lean towards disappointing overall BUT the fact that King Midas has pick 18 and 26 to play with eases my concerns.

[GVGjr]

I'm hoping Long lasts until 50.

I can't help myself, it could be a long wait :)

[anfo27]

Can't understand the Hrovat & Stevens trade at all. We effectively traded them both for a 6 pack & a pack of smokes. Wasn't expecting the world for them but really thats all they are worth?

Confident SD will nail any pick really but JMac negotiating skills I worry about. Seems to be a good list manager but Ronald McDonald would of got more back for Hrovat & Stevens. Is Ron busy next trade period?

[bornadog]

Can't understand the Hrovat & Stevens trade at all. We effectively traded them both for a 6 pack & a pack of smokes. Wasn't expecting the world for them but really thats all they are worth?

Confident SD will nail any pick really but JMac negotiating skills I worry about. Seems to be a good list manager but Ronald McDonald would of got more back for Hrovat & Stevens. Is Ron busy next trade period?

You can't look at trades on an individual basis, you have to look at the overall position and where you end up.

[anfo27]

You can't look at trades on an individual basis, you have to look at the overall position and where you end up.

I have. Overall we get pick 26 for Hamling, Hrovat & Stevens. I fail to see the positive in this.

[SlimPickens]

Can't understand the Hrovat & Stevens trade at all. We effectively traded them both for a 6 pack & a pack of smokes. Wasn't expecting the world for them but really thats all they are worth?

Confident SD will nail any pick really but JMac negotiating skills I worry about. Seems to be a good list manager but Ronald McDonald would of got more back for Hrovat & Stevens. Is Ron busy next trade period?

Think you're overrating what both Koby and Rat are worth. You're only worth what someone is willing to pay.

[Remi Moses]

Can't understand the Hrovat & Stevens trade at all. We effectively traded them both for a 6 pack & a pack of smokes. Wasn't expecting the world for them but really thats all they are worth?

Confident SD will nail any pick really but JMac negotiating skills I worry about. Seems to be a good list manager but Ronald McDonald would of got more back for Hrovat & Stevens. Is Ron busy next trade period?
Have you noticed what every other club has given up for their fringe players? I think we've got to get our head around the fact that fringe players don't have a lot of currency

[comrade]

I have. Overall we get pick 26 for Hamling, Hrovat & Stevens. I fail to see the positive in this.

What do you think we should have gotten for them?

[ReLoad]

I have. Overall we get pick 26 for Hamling, Hrovat & Stevens. I fail to see the positive in this.

Hawthorn lost Sam Mitchell and Jordan lewis for half what we received......

[Dry Rot]

Anyone else had a good look at the final draft order?

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-10-20/indicative-2016-afl-draft-order

After pick 2, GWS only have 15, 37 and 39 in the first 2 rounds. Teams can really go after their Academy players this year.

Would we consider the CHB one? McCreadie or something like that?

[chef]

I have. Overall we get pick 26 for Hamling, Hrovat & Stevens. I fail to see the positive in this.

I think you're are overating our own a bit. There wasn't a great deal of interest in them.

[anfo27]

Have you noticed what every other club has given up for their fringe players? I think we've got to get our head around the fact that fringe players don't have a lot of currency

Yeah i did. WHE 2nd round pick next year. Steele 2nd round pick next year. Nankervis 3rd round pick. Witts 3rd & 4th round pick.
Lyons 3rd round pick. All significantly better than what we got combined for Hrovat & Stevens. Mark Stevens commented on twitter 'Hrovat steal of the trade period'.

[anfo27]

What do you think we should have gotten for them?

We're only taking 3 picks to the draft so if we ended up with a pick in the 30's instead of 50 i would of been happy. Hrovat & Stevens combined i would of thought could get us a pick upgrade.

[G-Mo77]

Think you're overrating what both Koby and Rat are worth. You're only worth what someone is willing to pay.

I to was disappointed on our returns but then you see some of the other out of contract players going for irrelevant picks to get something is not that horrible. It just wasn't a sellers market this year. It's still disappointing to see all that we got for those players. I really think each player is worth far more than that.

I would have liked to have 4 picks and kept 61. So looks like Prudden is safe and Smith stays on the RL for another season. I'd really like to get one or both Long and Hannan but doubt it's going to happen now.

[chef]

We're only taking 3 picks to the draft so if we ended up with a pick in the 30's instead of 50 i would of been happy. Hrovat & Stevens combined i would of thought could get us a pick upgrade.


Didnt both give us 3rd round upgrades?

[anfo27]

Think you're overrating what both Koby and Rat are worth. You're only worth what someone is willing to pay.

As i said i wasn't expecting the world but we got nothing for them. How can i be over rating them? We got nothing for them and i think they are worth more than nothing.

[comrade]

We're only taking 3 picks to the draft so if we ended up with a pick in the 30's instead of 50 i would of been happy. Hrovat & Stevens combined i would of thought could get us a pick upgrade.

And how do you believe we would have achieved an extra pick in the 30s, given both players were uncontracted, outside our best 22 and nominated the clubs they wished to go to.

[comrade]

As i said i wasn't expecting the world but we got nothing for them. How can i be over rating them? We got nothing for them and i think they are worth more than nothing.

The market didn't.

[G-Mo77]

Yeah i did. WHE 2nd round pick next year. Steele 2nd round pick next year. Nankervis 3rd round pick. Witts 3rd & 4th round pick.
Lyons 3rd round pick. All significantly better than what we got combined for Hrovat & Stevens. Mark Stevens commented on twitter 'Hrovat steal of the trade period'.

Yeah Hrovat was disappointing. 2 buyers and only got measly 3rd and 4th upgrades in 2017. Worth a hell of a lot more than that. I try to look at it this way. Picks 18 and 26 for Dal to use. He'll get us someone.

[anfo27]

And how do you believe we would have achieved an extra pick in the 30s, given both players were uncontracted, outside our best 22 and nominated the clubs they wished to go to.

Not my job to come up with a way to get those picks. I'm merely looking from the outside like everyone else and having an opinion on the end result. You're happy with what we've done, me not so much.

Hrovat was happy to go to any club in Victoria we were happy to deal with. Both players walk into their team next year so i think they are worth more than nothing, otherwise let them go there for nothing in the PSD. Not sure why we need to be doing favours for other clubs.

[anfo27]

Yeah Hrovat was disappointing. 2 buyers and only got measly 3rd and 4th upgrades in 2017. Worth a hell of a lot more than that. I try to look at it this way. Picks 18 and 26 for Dal to use. He'll get us someone.


We all know Dal is the best in the business and in a draft as good as this i'm excited and what Dal can deliver.

[anfo27]

The market didn't.


We'll see next year then. At what they went for both should be playing in the reserves next year so not difficult for North & Saints to win those trades.

[comrade]

If a few months ago you told me we'd win the flag and only lose Hamling, Stevens and Hrovat, plus have our salary cap well under control and have 2 picks inside the first 26...yeah, I'd take that.

[comrade]

Not my job to come up with a way to get those picks. I'm merely looking from the outside like everyone else and having an opinion on the end result. You're happy with what we've done, me not so much.

Hrovat was happy to go to any club in Victoria we were happy to deal with. Both players walk into their team next year so i think they are worth more than nothing, otherwise let them go there for nothing in the PSD. Not sure why we need to be doing favours for other clubs.

So you're not happy with what we've got but would prefer we got absolutely nothing by walking them in the PSD, at the same time burning bridges with players and opposition list managers alike?

[GVGjr]

Anyone else had a good look at the final draft order?

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-10-20/indicative-2016-afl-draft-order

After pick 2, GWS only have 15, 37 and 39 in the first 2 rounds. Teams can really go after their Academy players this year.

Would we consider the CHB one? McCreadie or something like that?

Harrison Macreadie would be worthy consideration but they have enough to cover bids for him. Plus they moved him to Sydney. I think they're committed to him.

Perryman is another gun player, very slow but they need to cover him as well. Setterfield they might have some trouble keeping.

[anfo27]

So you're not happy with what we've got but would prefer we got absolutely nothing by walking them in the PSD, at the same time burning bridges with players and opposition list managers alike?

Why is it burning bridges? They don't want to give us anything for a player who will be in their best 22. Why should we be know as being push overs and a good team to deal with.
Geez you would of thought this was BF and i was asking to package up those players for a first rounder.

[Remi Moses]

All the top clubs have lost players
I should be putting us in the " top club"
Sydney have lost Mitchell, whom is a bigger loss than Hamling .
Giants have got an injury prone 30 year old in, and fair chance they lose Whitfield .
Lost more depth to their NeAfl team, Carlton .
Cats lost Caddy, and we all know who hawthorn lost, and the little return they got .

[Bulldog4life]

Why is it burning bridges? They don't want to give us anything for a player who will be in their best 22. Why should we be know as being push overs and a good team to deal with.
Geez you would of thought this was BF and i was asking to package up those players for a first rounder.

http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/video/2016-10-20/list-manager-reviews-dogs-trades?camefrom=EMCL_1319597_50629845

Here is a link of Jason McCartney talking after the trade period ended. Do yourself a favour and listen to him.

[Remi Moses]

Why is it burning bridges? They don't want to give us anything for a player who will be in their best 22. Why should we be know as being push overs and a good team to deal with.
Geez you would of thought this was BF and i was asking to package up those players for a first rounder.
You want to be a decent team to trade with because sooner or later the shoes on the other foot .
Unless you're Dodoro of course

[comrade]

Why is it burning bridges? They don't want to give us anything for a player who will be in their best 22. Why should we be know as being push overs and a good team to deal with.
Geez you would of thought this was BF and i was asking to package up those players for a first rounder.

Are we not allowed to have a discussion?

I doubt we're known as pushovers because we accepted late picks for uncontracted players not in our best 22.

[GVGjr]

All the top clubs have lost players
I should be putting us in the " top club"
Sydney have lost Mitchell, whom is a bigger loss than Hamling .
Giants have got an injury prone 30 year old in, and fair chance they lose Whitfield .
Lost more depth to their NeAfl team, Carlton .
Cats lost Caddy, and we all know who hawthorn lost, and the little return they got .

The Swans have two picks in the first round and had significant salary cap issues to deal with. They've done OK
Giants are in a stronger position despite having to jettison a few guys as well to clear money.
Hawks are reloading and Geelong think they're in a good position as well.
Adelaide kept their powder dry and West Coast have done very well.

We probably haven't lost a lot of ground.

[Dry Rot]

Harrison Macreadie would be worthy consideration but they have enough to cover bids for him. Plus they moved him to Sydney. I think they're committed to him.

Perryman is another gun player, very slow but they need to cover him as well. Setterfield they might have some trouble keeping.

Looking at http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-10-20/indicative-2016-afl-draft-order

If say clubs with picks 3 - 6 nominate nominate a GWS Academy player, GWS need to use their first and one of their second round picks. Another nomination in the 6-10 range will knock off their other second pick and two thirds. Leaves them bugger all.

So GWS may only get 2 of them. I thought McCraedie wasn't in their first two picks?

[bulldogtragic]

http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/video/2016-10-20/list-manager-reviews-dogs-trades?camefrom=EMCL_1319597_50629845

Here is a link of Jason McCartney talking after the trade period ended. Do yourself a favour and listen to him.

Plough on Trade Radio said the same sort of thing, that there's really great value in the top 30. So I guess two inside 26 gives Dal some good picks. Pick 50 for a Daniel or Williams gem would top it off.

[lemmon]

http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/video/2016-10-20/list-manager-reviews-dogs-trades?camefrom=EMCL_1319597_50629845

Here is a link of Jason McCartney talking after the trade period ended. Do yourself a favour and listen to him.

So it sounds like it was our decision to move on Hrovat and Kobe for list spots? And yet we've contracted Hamilton and it looks like we're keeping Prudden. That reasoning doesn't work for me.

[GVGjr]

Looking at http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-10-20/indicative-2016-afl-draft-order

If say clubs with picks 3 - 6 nominate nominate a GWS Academy player, GWS need to use their first and one of their second round picks. Another nomination in the 6-10 range will knock off their other second pick and two thirds. Leaves them bugger all.

So GWS may only get 2 of them. I thought McCraedie wasn't in their first two picks?

It's obviously reliant on other clubs bidding early. My guess is a lot of they clubs they traded with are unlikely to do so. There could be a gentleman's agreement between them and a few clubs.

[G-Mo77]

So it sounds like it was our decision to move on Hrovat and Kobe for list spots? And yet we've contracted Hamilton and it looks like we're keeping Prudden. That reasoning doesn't work for me.

Yeah we wedged ourselves in a bad position and showed our hand to other clubs. I really think we should have cut Prudden and tried to put more work into Hrovat. At least that way we do have a little bit more leverage in a deal should he still want to go elsewhere.

[Axe Man]

For what it's worth in relation to the GWS academy players, Callum Twomey rates Setterfield 7 & Perryman 9, with Macreadie not in his top 30.

[GVGjr]

For what it's worth in relation to the GWS academy players, Callum Twomey rates Setterfield 7 & Perryman 9, with Macreadie not in his top 30.

I was just having a look at that. Seems strange that they would move Macreadie to Sydney and not be committed to him.

[GVGjr]

I was just having a look at that. Seems strange that they would move Macreadie to Sydney and not be committed to him.

Still if he isn't in the top 30 then a bid on him could be covered. They still should be able to cover the other two

[Sedat]

Yeah we wedged ourselves in a bad position and showed our hand to other clubs. I really think we should have cut Prudden and tried to put more work into Hrovat. At least that way we do have a little bit more leverage in a deal should he still want to go elsewhere.
How much do we really lose by having Prudden and off-loading Hrovat in 2017? Both are depth players not in the best 22 but capable of playing a role at senior AFL level - Hrovat is a marginally better player but we're not talking Bont vs Palmer difference. Prudden would also command far less in terms of salary cap space.

[G-Mo77]

How much do we really lose by having Prudden and off-loading Hrovat in 2017? Both are depth players not in the best 22 but capable of playing a role at senior AFL level - Hrovat is a marginally better player but we're not talking Bont vs Palmer difference. Prudden would also command far less in terms of salary cap space.

I'm not talking in talent or salary. Having a squeeze for lists spots showed our hand and lost a lot of negotiating ability, JMac even said it himself. Basically clubs could say take this or nothing at all. At least if there was a bit of doubt from an opposition club that the player they wanted was not going to be available for free we would have had the ability to squeeze a little more.

[soupman]

So it sounds like it was our decision to move on Hrovat and Kobe for list spots? And yet we've contracted Hamilton and it looks like we're keeping Prudden. That reasoning doesn't work for me.

Yep, although the counter argument is that the two we are keeping are significantly easier to manage.

Firstly financially it would surprise me if either Prudden or Hamilton were on much more than the base wage. Neither have the exposed form or suitors to be able to demand anything more than what we offer. I doubt Hrovat was on much, but Stevens may have been around the league average and while it's not big money altogether the difference between the players probably ended up in the vicinity of $300k.

Need for selection. Both Stevens and Hrovat are at the point in their career where if they spend another season in the reserves they could find their career dies. They should both be demanding they are picked each week, but from our point of view neither is an automatic best 22 selection.

Our list profile. Stevens is a big bodied mid/forward with poor disposal. Jong is exactly that, except he seems to be the preferred option, and he is barely best 22. Likewise with Dunkley. Hrovat is a clever half forward that doesn't really play midfield properly. Daniel has him covered, and we have McLean also in the mix. Hamilton is also in line for this spot, although behind Hrovat. Neither really command a position of need for us, and will also be competing with slightly different types like Dale and Webb who both need to be prioritised.

So basically considering the spots we are looking at are not best 22 spots, we need to look at whats the best choice for us. On exposed form Stevens and Hrovat are the better two players, but do either do enough to justify the increased cost they bring over the likes of Prudden and Hamilton? If they are only a slight chance to be in our side more than 25% of the time, are we better off going for the cheaper guys? Prudden has looked capable if not overly impressive in his few appearances, and Hamilton has had mixed form in the VFL, but now is a little bit closer to getting an opportunity at AFL level.

I'm dissapointed to lose both Stevens and Hrovat, particularly the latter. But honestly neither is in my best 25; Stevens is just too wasteful, and Hrovat after 5 or so seasons is still all potential. He is yet to put together a consistent run of games where he has embedded himself in the side. He does look tidy, but so do others. Also Hrovat has earned the right to try elsewhere for mine. He could have gone last year but stuck it out for another year. It didn't work out, but it was god to see and if another club can offer something resembling regular footy he should take it because like many have pointed out he is another nothing season from career over.

[soupman]

At least if there was a bit of doubt from an opposition club that the player they wanted was not going to be available for free we would have had the ability to squeeze a little more.

This trade period demonstrated that unless a player is quality in every sense then they are worth nothing. Every fringe player involved this trade period was basically free. If a player is tradeable, then he is worth nothing. It's only the best 22 ones that are worth anything, and even then some aren't.

[bulldogtragic]

This trade period demonstrated that unless a player is quality in every sense then they are worth nothing. Every fringe player involved this trade period was basically free. If a player is tradeable, then he is worth nothing. It's only the best 22 ones that are worth anything, and even then some aren't.

This was the trade period where values plummeted across the board. After in particular Boyd & Treloar, Aish, Melksham for 25, Jesse White 40's, I think the trend was stock/players values going up. But like any share market, there's peaks and troughs. This trade period saw the arse fall out of the market. It's a shame we didn't see any players we liked on the cheap, but that's life. From a competition sense, I like some sanity prevail on fringe player values. Just a shame it sad our year to trade three of them.

[1eyedog]

Think you're overrating what both Koby and Rat are worth. You're only worth what someone is willing to pay.

Should have kept Hrovat then, promised him game time next year and given him the Ayce Cordy six week window with a chance to cement a spot.

A smart footballer who is a good user goes out for nothing.

[GVGjr]

How much do we really lose by having Prudden and off-loading Hrovat in 2017? Both are depth players not in the best 22 but capable of playing a role at senior AFL level - Hrovat is a marginally better player but we're not talking Bont vs Palmer difference. Prudden would also command far less in terms of salary cap space.

He's a bank flanker and he isn't a genuine midfielder or forward type like Hrovat. We have an abundance of those types of players albeit we would have to consider we will lose Murphy and M.Boyd at the end of next season. I think it's more of a question on if we rate Prudden higher than rookies Roarke Smith and even Brad Lynch.

For that half back role we have the likes of Murphy, Wood, M.Boyd, Suckling, Biggs, Williams, JJ, Smith*, Prudden and Lynch* to consider.

We drafted Prudden in 2012 and he only played a handful of games (7) for the Murray Bushrangers that year and since that time he has only played 4 senior games. He played 8 VFL games in 2013 after injuring an ankle. In 2014 4 VFL games injuring a knee. In 2015 11 VFL games and 4 senior games before his season was finished with a hamstring injury and in 2016 2 VFL games before injuring a knee again.

If we count his Bushranger year he has played 36 games of football in 5 years. I know he has had a wretched run with injuries and there are times he looks like a decent prospect but how much longer can we maintain him on the list given we are reasonably deep in the position he plays?

[G-Mo77]

This trade period demonstrated that unless a player is quality in every sense then they are worth nothing. Every fringe player involved this trade period was basically free. If a player is tradeable, then he is worth nothing. It's only the best 22 ones that are worth anything, and even then some aren't.

True but yet there were deals like Dunn and Hoskin-Elliot which were outrageous in comparison. I've had numerous texts from a Collingwood mate fuming over those deals. I really thought with 2 teams interested in Hrovat and not a preference for him we would have got more. It's disappointing.

[soupman]

True but yet there were deals like Dunn and Hoskin-Elliot which were outrageous in comparison. I've had numerous texts from a Collingwood mate fuming over those deals. I really thought with 2 teams interested in Hrovat and not a preference for him we would have got more. It's disappointing.

Don't get me wrong I'm not overly impressed with the deal either, but it's not like GWS put the squeeze on with the WHE deal either.

And Collingwood is a terrible example of what market value is, in the past few seasons there has been no club as bad at the "buy low sell high" mantra as the Magpies. Every player they recruit is at peak value. Jesse White plays 3 good months of footy in his career, hunted by the Magpies. Levi Greenwood puts together the one decent season he has ever had, hunted by the Magpies. Mayne and Wells are another two excellent examples of players Collingwood could not have paid more for. They are absolute suckers. If Ayce Cordy had've had a half decent month of footy they would have offered us a pick in the 20's.

[Sedat]

If we count his Bushranger year he has played 36 games of football in 5 years. I know he has had a wretched run with injuries and there are times he looks like a decent prospect but how much longer can we maintain him on the list given we are reasonably deep in the position he plays?
He's battling to save his AFL career in 2017, but then I would think both Hrovat and possibly Stevens are as well.

Thinking about it rationally, offering up a further 2 years for Hrovat on mid range $$ is likely to end up with the same scenario in 2 years time. I think we learnt from the continued 2 year contract extensions to Jarrad Grant that essentially ended up back at groundhog day.

[1eyedog]

True but yet there were deals like Dunn and Hoskin-Elliot which were outrageous in comparison. I've had numerous texts from a Collingwood mate fuming over those deals. I really thought with 2 teams interested in Hrovat and not a preference for him we would have got more. It's disappointing.

Tuohy was a first rounder

[hujsh]

Tuohy was a first rounder

1st round with a second coming back and Smedts going. If Geelong does well and Carlton does poorly (both likely enough) it'll be a small downgrade.

EDIT: Was it Carlton's second rounder or someone else's? I thought Hawthorn got Carlton's second for that bundle of picks.

[bornadog]

1st round with a second coming back and Smedts going. If Geelong does well and Carlton does poorly (both likely enough) it'll be a small downgrade.


EDIT: Was it Carlton's second rounder or someone else's? I thought Hawthorn got Carlton's second for that bundle of picks.
Hawks got future 2nd round to pass on to GC

[Bulldog Revolution]

Everything is an anti-climax after a premiership win and this trade period was exactly that for me

I can't turn off my bulldog obsessed nature, but I can try to have the odd time of year where I switch off - the trade period does not allow this, and in lots of respects it was a massive anti-climax for us, and so it feels like wasted energy - we got Cloke, all our fringe depth players moved on,

But again the draft will draw me back in and then I'll look forward to our squad getting back together and back to work with a now excellent development program in place

[boydogs]

I'm in the camp that says we got a poor return for our outs, but look at it this way:

Travis Cloke, 13 games in 2016, pick 76

Joel Hamling, 12 games, pick 37 (35, 43, 61 (1035) for 40, 63 (541), valued 494 points)

Koby Stevens, 12 games, pick 67 (50, STK 2017 R5 (est. 8th, pick 89 assuming 6 free agent/priority insertions) (273) for 61, NM 2017 R4 (est. 12th, pick 67) (204), valued 69 points)

Nathan Hrovat, 4 games, pick 58 (NM 2017 R3 (est. 12th, pick 49), NM 2017 R4 (pick 67) (356) for WB 2017 R3 (est. 4th, pick 57), WB 2017 R4 (pick 75) (182), valued 174 points)

Need to make a lot of assumptions for Stevens & Hrovat, but we will probably get more for them than Collingwood did for Cloke, despite Cloke playing more games

[jeemak]

So it sounds like it was our decision to move on Hrovat and Kobe for list spots? And yet we've contracted Hamilton and it looks like we're keeping Prudden. That reasoning doesn't work for me.

I think it's an admission we've seen what Stevens and Hrovat can produce, considered what they're likely to want to earn playing for us, and said we can't put a contract in front of them on that basis.

Hamilton and Prudden will be on basic contracts, the former seems to require more exposure and the latter according to VFL watchers had a bit to work with.

[hujsh]

1st round with a second coming back and Smedts going. If Geelong does well and Carlton does poorly (both likely enough) it'll be a small downgrade.

EDIT: Was it Carlton's second rounder or someone else's? I thought Hawthorn got Carlton's second for that bundle of picks.


Hawks got future 2nd round to pass on to GC
So looking at the trade wrap-up Geelong have Carlton's 2017 2nd rounder and GWS have St.Kilda and Geelong's 2017 2nd rounders. Since the St Kilda pick was for Steele I have to assume the Geelong one is what they got form the Hawks. I genuinly can't find where Geelong gave that pick up though so I'm wondering if it's a mistake.

Now looking at the Carlton and GWS trades it looks like they got Collingwood's second round pick rather than Geelong's so I will assume it is a mistake and Hawthorn traded Collingwood's second round pick (from Collingwood>GWS>Carlton>Hawks>Suns) and Geelong still have 2 second rounders next year.

[jeemak]

Don't get me wrong I'm not overly impressed with the deal either, but it's not like GWS put the squeeze on with the WHE deal either.

And Collingwood is a terrible example of what market value is, in the past few seasons there has been no club as bad at the "buy low sell high" mantra as the Magpies. Every player they recruit is at peak value. Jesse White plays 3 good months of footy in his career, hunted by the Magpies. Levi Greenwood puts together the one decent season he has ever had, hunted by the Magpies. Mayne and Wells are another two excellent examples of players Collingwood could not have paid more for. They are absolute suckers. If Ayce Cordy had've had a half decent month of footy they would have offered us a pick in the 20's.

At the end of the season Collingwood were playing at the mark that could have competed with top four to six in the competition.

I do think they've been a touch haphazard with their list management, but we can't tell for sure. My view is they're going up the ladder in most definite terms in 2017.

[Remi Moses]

The Swans have two picks in the first round and had significant salary cap issues to deal with. They've done OK
Giants are in a stronger position despite having to jettison a few guys as well to clear money.
Hawks are reloading and Geelong think they're in a good position as well.
Adelaide kept their powder dry and West Coast have done very well.

We probably haven't lost a lot of ground.

I'm not saying they haven't done okay, just making the point that most of the big boys have lost players

[boydogs]

So looking at the trade wrap-up Geelong have Carlton's 2017 2nd rounder and GWS have St.Kilda and Geelong's 2017 2nd rounders. Since the St Kilda pick was for Steele I have to assume the Geelong one is what they got form the Hawks. I genuinly can't find where Geelong gave that pick up though so I'm wondering if it's a mistake.

Now looking at the Carlton and GWS trades it looks like they got Collingwood's second round pick rather than Geelong's so I will assume it is a mistake and Hawthorn traded Collingwood's second round pick (from Collingwood>GWS>Carlton>Hawks>Suns) and Geelong still have 2 second rounders next year.

Geelong kept their 2017 R2, GWS have St Kilda's 2017 R2 from Jack Steele and Collingwood's 2017 R2 from Will Hoskin-Elliott (direct trade)

[1eyedog]

1st round with a second coming back and Smedts going. If Geelong does well and Carlton does poorly (both likely enough) it'll be a small downgrade.

EDIT: Was it Carlton's second rounder or someone else's? I thought Hawthorn got Carlton's second for that bundle of picks.

I think a future 2nd from Carlton. That said Geelong gave up a first rounder for Tuohy, so somewhere around 10-16 you'd think and Carlton's second going back to Geelong would be around 32-35. That's a fair upgrade even with Smedts as steak knives.

[KT31]

I'm on the fence with our draft, Cloke for mine is a big plus and two picks in the top 30 is great.
I would have liked to have got a bit more for Hrovat and Stevens but if that is the market value then so be it, unlike the Lake trade we didn't rush it and had the whole week to gauge.
Don't know the ins and outs of the Deledio trade and as much as I would have loved to have seen Lid's in our colours and not GWS's it may have been a matter of a poor fitness test or just more important areas we need to address.
A bit has been said about Hurley not jumping on board ( a decision in years to come IMO he will immensely regret), but it was weeks ago and from the outside we seemed to lack in a contingency plan, it does stink a little of all eggs in one basket.
I like others think we have a couple of issues in our back and ruck stocks and instead of going forward we went backwards by losing both Hamling and Minson.
I think however we did do alright in the Hamling trade as two months ago he was hardly rated and Minson was cooked.
All in all we lost Hamling, some fringe players and Minson not bad going.
If we had pick 40 down and not pick 50 I would've been off the fence and a lot happier.
The timing of the signing of Hamilton was quite odd in my books and I'm not sure what will happen with Prudden as I haven't seen enough of him to make a call but another pick in the draft would be nice.
No pressure on Dal and our draft team but continued success is now more important to us than ever and you guys are the best in the business.
So over to you.

[Throughandthrough]

this is my fave


Pick 31. Port Adelaide (received from Sydney Swans in a pick exchange; received by Sydney Swans from Greater Western Sydney in a pick exchange; received by GWS from from Brisbane Lions in a pick exchange; received from Collingwood as part of 2015 James Aish-Ryan Bastinac trade; originally received from St Kilda via trade for Nathan Freeman)

[hujsh]

Geelong kept their 2017 R2, GWS have St Kilda's 2017 R2 from Jack Steele and Collingwood's 2017 R2 from Will Hoskin-Elliott (direct trade)

So they must have traded their own future second in that case and kept Collingwoods

[S Coast Simon]

We did well in my opinion as we have to get rid of three players according to the rules and our players were all wanted by other clubs. If we didn't get anything for them we would have had to delist them. So we really did win as we got a small return.

[westdog54]

Anyone else had a good look at the final draft order?

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-10-20/indicative-2016-afl-draft-order

After pick 2, GWS only have 15, 37 and 39 in the first 2 rounds. Teams can really go after their Academy players this year.

Would we consider the CHB one? McCreadie or something like that?

Has anyone else noticed that Hawthorn doesn't have a draft selection available to them until pick 88?

They'd be hoping like hell that O'Meara can get on the park.

[boydogs]

So they must have traded their own future second in that case and kept Collingwoods

Yep GWS' 2017 R2 went to Carlton

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-10-20/three-giants-caleb-marchbank-jarrod-pickett-rhys-palmer-head-to-carlton

[hujsh]

Has anyone else noticed that Hawthorn doesn't have a draft selection available to them until pick 88?

They'd be hoping like hell that O'Meara can get on the park.

I think it's now set up that if O'Meara is anything less than a Judd/Gablett/Fyfe/Dangerfield superstar the Hawks are stuffed.

Also worth noting they've ended up doing nothing to address their contested ball issues with Mitchell and Lewis leaving nullifying any improvement from T Mitchell and O'Meara

[westdog54]

I think it's now set up that if O'Meara is anything less than a Judd/Gablett/Fyfe/Dangerfield superstar the Hawks are stuffed.

Also worth noting they've ended up doing nothing to address their contested ball issues with Mitchell and Lewis leaving nullifying any improvement from T Mitchell and O'Meara

Didn't you know? You don't need to win the contested ball to win finals...;)

[Dancin' Douggy]

Has anyone else noticed that Hawthorn doesn't have a draft selection available to them until pick 88?

They'd be hoping like hell that O'Meara can get on the park.

Next year too.
They've traded their first and second round picks out . Maybe even their 3rd???
So aside from getting Tom Mitchell with this years first rounder,
Omeara cost them Sam Mitchell, Jordan Lewis. (1st and 2nd b&f this year), and 2 entire years worth of draft picks.

[Eastdog]

We did well in my opinion as we have to get rid of three players according to the rules and our players were all wanted by other clubs. If we didn't get anything for them we would have had to delist them. So we really did win as we got a small return.

We did lose a few but at lease we gained a player in Travis Cloke. Always difficult when we are on top but we have looking at our team so much quality on the park.