Gold Coast Suns Viability - How Long Have They Got?

[bulldogtragic]

Gold Coast has long been a dead mans patch for (allegedly) professional sporting clubs. The AFEL bucked the trend and went into the Gold Coast.

The McKenna years were worse than expected.
Their recruiting hasn't been sharp.
The drug culture and QLD Crime Commission investigations are a stain on the game and their club.
Many of their best players have requested out, and walked out.
They've not made finals yet, and don't look nearly like it anytime soon.
Membership numbers are still poor.
Attendances are not brilliant, non unexpectedly.
Rumours of rifts between players and coaches still hang about.
This year they pitched money & opportunity to dozens of good players, all but one knocked them back.
Captain, Qld AFEL Ambasador and on a huge salary Gary Ablett requested a trade out of there last month, for much less money.
Malcheski has retired all of a sudden with a 2017 contract (yes he's had injuries, and cites them as the reason).

We know the AFEL need an 18th licence for the TV rights deal. So we know 18 teams are here, I'm not suggesting dropping the numbers. But how many years does this need to continue before another club is looked at for the 18th licence? Such as North QLD or Northern Australia (inc. Darwin to FNQ) or Tasmania etc.

Can this be drawn out much passed 3-5 years before change? Maybe even a merge with Brisbane to concoct another 3 peat for bandwagoners.

[Twodogs]

Gold Coast has long been a dead mans patch for (allegedly) professional sporting clubs. The AFEL bucked the trend and went into the Gold Coast.

The McKenna years were worse than expected.
Their recruiting hasn't been sharp.
The drug culture and QLD Crime Commission investigations are a stain on the game and their club.
Many of their best players have requested out, and walked out.
They've not made finals yet, and don't look nearly like it anytime soon.
Membership numbers are still poor.
Attendances are not brilliant, non unexpectedly.
Rumours of rifts between players and coaches still hang about.
This year they pitched money & opportunity to dozens of good players, all but one knocked them back.
Captain, Qld AFEL Ambasador and on a huge salary Gary Ablett requested a trade out of there last month, for much less money.
Malcheski has retired all of a sudden with a 2017 contract (yes he's had injuries, and cites them as the reason).

We know the AFEL need an 18th licence for the TV rights deal. So we know 18 teams are here, I'm not suggesting dropping the numbers. But how many years does this need to continue before another club is looked at for the 18th licence? Such as North QLD or Northern Australia (inc. Darwin to FNQ) or Tasmania etc.

Can this be drawn out much passed 3-5 years before change? Maybe even a merge with Brisbane to concoct another 3 peat for bandwagoners.

That's the inevitable outcome. The Golden Brisbane Lions playing their games out of the 'Gabba.

[bulldogtragic]

Pickering has said that GAJ may ask for a trade again next year...

[Rocco Jones]

If I were in charge of Gold Coast I would:

- 'Rebuild' (can you rebuild something that has never been built? Maybe start over again?). Lynch and May are both 24 at great bookends to build a side around.

They have picks 4, 6, 8 and 10, as well as 5 future picks within the second round next year.

I would place an absolute premium on getting kids with good-great attitudes, even if it means sacrificing 'better' players. To make it in that culture you have to be self-disciplined.

If a senior player who isn't committed wants to go, load up on picks

- Only recruit senior players who are going to be great role models. Development over sneaking a win here and there. Hanley is a really bad choice in this regard IMO.

- Dump Rocket and get a development based coach.

The massive focus is on demand for great attitudes. Dickheads and easily influenced types are just too risky in that environment.

[Flamethrower]

I never understood why the Suns and other Gold Coast based teams struggled to survive until I tried to arrange to see a game at Metricon in 2015. Talk about a nightmare. The public transport is a joke and there is a 5 km exclusion zone for parking near the stadium - they have made it very difficult to get to the place. On top of that the reserved seating prices are abhorrent for a fledgling expansion team.

Make it easy to get to the game and make the ticket prices reasonable, and the crowds will come. There are enough expat Victorians to get 20K plus every week, but not if they can't just hop in their car and park near the ground for nothing.

[GVGjr]

If I were in charge of Gold Coast I would:

- 'Rebuild' (can you rebuild something that has never been built? Maybe start over again?). Lynch and May are both 24 at great bookends to build a side around.

They have picks 4, 6, 8 and 10, as well as 5 future picks within the second round next year.

I would place an absolute premium on getting kids with good-great attitudes, even if it means sacrificing 'better' players. To make it in that culture you have to be self-disciplined.

If a senior player who isn't committed wants to go, load up on picks

- Only recruit senior players who are going to be great role models. Development over sneaking a win here and there. Hanley is a really bad choice in this regard IMO.

- Dump Rocket and get a development based coach.

The massive focus is on demand for great attitudes. Dickheads and easily influenced types are just too risky in that environment.

They need to revamp the recruiting team because what you have outlined is what they should have been doing from the start. They were given enough currency to recruit a great group but have fallen short.

[AndrewP6]

Fold the team, then give the reigning premiers first option to pick up their choice of player/s. :cool: :D

[Twodogs]

Fold the team, then give the reigning premiers first option to pick up their choice of player/s. :cool: :D

That's a bloody good idea. Get some of those players into a decent program and they could go places.

[Bulldog4life]

I never understood why the Suns and other Gold Coast based teams struggled to survive until I tried to arrange to see a game at Metricon in 2015. Talk about a nightmare. The public transport is a joke and there is a 5 km exclusion zone for parking near the stadium - they have made it very difficult to get to the place. On top of that the reserved seating prices are abhorrent for a fledgling expansion team.

Make it easy to get to the game and make the ticket prices reasonable, and the crowds will come. There are enough expat Victorians to get 20K plus every week, but not if they can't just hop in their car and park near the ground for nothing.

Yes I found it strange that you couldn't park near the ground too. Although what I did discover is a lot of the hotels offer free bus transport to and from the ground including the place where we were staying so that was a big plus.

[bulldogtragic]

Yes I found it strange that you couldn't park near the ground too. Although what I did discover is a lot of the hotels offer free bus transport to and from the ground including the place where we were staying so that was a big plus.

So locals should stay at hotels to get to the ground? :D

[azabob]

FIAT are no longer a major sponsor of the Suns.



"Gold Coast Football Club and FCA Australia today confirmed that Fiat would not be extending their three year co-major partnership when it expires next week," the statement said.

"It has been an extremely successful partnership for both parties. FCA Australia values all that the partnership has delivered and wishes the GCFC every success for the 2017 season and beyond.

"Throughout 2016, GCFC extended their other co-major partner, HostPlus, for a further three years, as well as stadium naming rights partner Metricon Homes for a further five years, taking both partnerships beyond 10-year commitments."


http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/gold-coast-suns-on-hunt-for-new-major-sponsor-as-deal-with-fiat-set-to-end-20161029-gsdlro.html

[bulldogtragic]

That's a big loss. Losing a major sponsor means the AFEL will probably need to pick up that slack. The signs aren't great for that plastic franchise.

[jeemak]

I thought they were looking pretty good from a list perspective until they were decimated by injury throughout the course of the last few years. It was then that their culture caught up with them and the wheels started coming off.

[bulldogtragic]

Bump.

Since three years since I've asked the question, they've held up the bottom of the ladder and look to be bottom this year. Currently just 66%. They sacked another coach. Ablett quits, Lynch, Kolo & May walked out last year, Prestia, O'Meara, Saad, Matera and others in the last few years. Haven't signed Martin, Day etc. Today they've given up 103 points in the first half against Richmond.

Just Fitzroy them already.

[bornadog]

Wasting funds that can be used elsewhere. They will never ever make it on the Gold Coast - flogging a dead horse.

AFL just admit it you got this wrong.

[DOG GOD]

Wasting funds that can be used elsewhere. They will never ever make it on the Gold Coast - flogging a dead horse.

AFL just admit it you got this wrong.

Too many egos at AFL house to admit this unfortunately Bornadog, but I agree, euthanasia is required for GC football club.

[Testekill]

Has any sports team ever succeeded on the Gold Coast?

[bulldogtragic]

Has any sports team ever succeeded on the Gold Coast?

No. They've all folded.

[westdog54]

Has any sports team ever succeeded on the Gold Coast?

The Titans are hanging in there in the NRL.

[Doc26]

Wasting funds that can be used elsewhere. They will never ever make it on the Gold Coast - flogging a dead horse.

AFL just admit it you got this wrong.

I feel for the young boys (and their families) that are forced through the draft to have to suck it up, and be constrained in reaching their potential.

[ledge]

Might be the team that ends up in Tassie.
South coast tassie devils.

[macca]

I feel for the young boys (and their families) that are forced through the draft to have to suck it up, and be constrained in reaching their potential.
We should make a play for Darcy MacPherson , his having a pretty good season
His one that got away
Who else would be gettable ?

[Hotdog60]

Might be the team that ends up in Tassie.
South coast tassie devils.

There's no history with the club so you could just change the name to Tassie Devils although it could be treading on Melbourne's toes a bit.
Also Tassie Tigers is close to Richmond so that would also be hard.

[SonofScray]

Persist with GC. Qld is the footy market where the game will find the most fertile ground outside of its home states. Rugby is a mess there, League is top dog but even it is struggling at junior level.

They have a good stadium, it's an attractive away day for fans interstate. Sink 30 years into it and see what happens.

[mjp]

Persist with GC. Qld is the footy market where the game will find the most fertile ground outside of its home states. Rugby is a mess there, League is top dog but even it is struggling at junior level.

They have a good stadium, it's an attractive away day for fans interstate. Sink 30 years into it and see what happens.

Ultimately this is right.

For all of the calls for a team in Tassie, ratings could hardly be higher for afl games down there so what is actually achieved in terms of growing footy by putting a team in a place with low population, low population growth...where most of the people are already invested in the game.

To make it work though, don’t you have to put good people in place? Can’t comment of Dew, but some of the other appointments might be highly regarded but unfortunately if you are a #$@&#* and don’t treat people well then...

[mjp]

Sometimes when I’m typing on my iPad I reread what I have posted and it seems as if I was drunk when I wrote it...hopefully the general idea if what’s I was saying comes across.

[Happy Days]

To make it work though, don’t you have to put good people in place? Can’t comment of Dew, but some of the other appointments might be highly regarded but unfortunately if you are a #$@&#* and don’t treat people well then...

Yeah gonna need a bit more on this my dude.

[mjp]

Yeah gonna need a bit more on this my dude.

Who are the other appointments? Ask yourself if they are good people or simply out to drive themselves and their careers forward damn everyone else. You will find the latter is true. I’m not naming names. The names are obvious to one and all.

[Twodogs]

The Titans are hanging in there in the NRL.

All those western Sydney types have to have something to do on their winter breaks. I don't know that the Gold Coast locals want Parramatta and Canterbury supporters wandering around with all that time on their hands.

I once got chased through Gold Coast by some angry Canterbury supporters. We got chatting outside of the stadium (I was walking back from my cousin's place to our motel) and when I told them that I lived in Melbourne they assumed that I was a Storm supporter. That all changed after I told them I had been an Eels supporter since I was 13 and they were not happy about it. Things got ugly!

[Twodogs]

Who are the other appointments? Ask yourself if they are good people or simply out to drive themselves and their careers forward damn everyone else. You will find the latter is true. I’m not naming names. The names are obvious to one and all.

I really hate a dilettante. They are time wasters pretending they know better than everyone else only to walk away when it all gets too hard for them and expect others to pick up the pieces. Plenty of (stupid) ideas but no responsibility accepted.

[bulldogtragic]

Gold Coast lobbying the AFEL for pick 1 as a priority pick, to go with their existing & likely pick 1 pick. Giving them picks 1 & 2 this year if successful with the lobbying.

[bornadog]

Gold Coast lobbying the AFEL for pick 1 as a priority pick, to go with their existing & likely pick 1 pick. Giving them picks 1 & 2 this year if successful with the lobbying.

I wouldn't give it to them, just stuffs up every one else. Besides they had their chances, too bad

[FrediKanoute]

and lets face it they were right up there after 5 games. They don't need priority picks. What they need is to trade the players they have for better picks and be smarter about it. Their problem stems from the fact that they chose poorly in the set up and then proceeded to trade even worse. Darcy Mac is probably their best recruit.

[The Underdog]

Gold Coast lobbying the AFEL for pick 1 as a priority pick, to go with their existing & likely pick 1 pick. Giving them picks 1 & 2 this year if successful with the lobbying.

I wonder if that’s because Rowell and Anderson are such close mates. Get them both there and hence more likely to want to stick together long term.

[GVGjr]

I have a 3 year plan for the Suns to get them to a very competitive position and I believe it's necessary to keep an 18 team competition viable

For the 2019, 2020 and 2021 draft/trading period they receive:

One additional end of first round draft pick for the 3 years. This can also be used to trade for experienced players but primarily to give the Suns the currency to take advantage of whatever options present

Access to pre-list one State League player for each of the 3 years. They do not need to use a draft pick to acquire the player but equally they can work with other clubs who might value some players enough to offer a good draft pick. These players must have been on an AFL list before

Access to two Queensland based under 18 players for each of the 3 years without having to given up a pick.

The AFL to stump up to pay for 2 additional development coaches to really provide the players at the club specialist coaching

I'd also be willing to review a modest increase to the salary cap to help the club bring in experienced players

It might seem too lenient but unless they get some assistance they could be down for way too long
It's been poorly managed form the get go and the AFL needs to step in and help them along. Early draft picks have been proven not to work for them and this will give them some options to bring in some more ready made players.

Thoughts?

[bulldogtragic]

I have a 3 year plan for the Suns to get them to a very competitive position and I believe it's necessary to keep an 18 team competition viable

For the 2019, 2020 and 2021 draft/trading period they receive:

One additional end of first round draft pick for the 3 years. This can also be used to trade for experienced players but primarily to give the Suns the currency to take advantage of whatever options present

Access to pre-list one State League player for each of the 3 years. They do not need to use a draft pick to acquire the player but equally they can work with other clubs who might value some players enough to offer a good draft pick. These players must have been on an AFL list before

Access to two Queensland based under 18 players for each of the 3 years without having to given up a pick.

The AFL to stump up to pay for 2 additional development coaches to really provide the players at the club specialist coaching

I'd also be willing to review a modest increase to the salary cap to help the club bring in experienced players

It might seem too lenient but unless they get some assistance they could be down for way too long
It's been poorly managed form the get go and the AFL needs to step in and help them along. Early draft picks have been proven not to work for them and this will give them some options to bring in some more ready made players.

Thoughts?

That's well thought out. To me I think it's akin to giving CPR at the beginning of an autopsy just to see if it works.

As I see it, almost all clubs up there die for a good reason. The culture, the non-footy/sport nature of the town and being a hard place to live. Players don't want to stay for the most part, Captains and ex-Captains leave at high rate. They've had lots and lots of picks, lots of extra money (see Hunt & GAJ), their own academy giving them local talent access, top staff hand picked for them (Mark Evans) and last year state league players (and have daddy manipulate things like Geelong getting pick 19 or so for Motlop so GCS could allow the trade). There's no evidence I see that giving them a bit more of what the already have/have had access to. So I'd ask why do it?

Who benefits from giving more of all these things? The other 17 clubs don't, and in the long term I don't think GCS will either. I don't think they can turn it around because I don't see more Mulligan's fixing the problem. The foundation of the club is so very, very bad that I don't see it turning around. It's in the AFELs interest to keep a pulse up there, so on that basis of self interest I can see a bail out package being offered. How things are 30 years on from oblivion the discussion is HQ Handouts and not folding the club, and then folding Fitzroy. At least we were saved by the local people and members taking extreme action to prove we should exist, and our players deferring wages. What is the GCS admin and players doing about their situation other than asking for pick 1 this year as a priority pick?

I just don't personally see how they can turn it around now. If we must throw a bunch of picks around, I'd look to move the 18th licence elsewhere with their players and extra picks and start fresh, new board/president/admin/CEO with the experience to not repeat the same mistakes. But for the sake of argument, if we give them all these these things, will this be the last time the competition is asked to take a big hit for them (starting and this one)? Then if they fail still, we pull it. Or do we just keep giving them these things until they make final or win a flag etc? How far down the road are we with, and how committed are we that GCS must be the 18th licence?

[GVGjr]

I favour a slow rebuild that helps the competition in the longer term than just throwing 2 early picks at them each year

They got the initial recruiting approach wrong and they got the coaching appointments wrong as well. As good as Rocket was as a coach there was no way his FIFO approach was what was needed. That was always a blueprint for failure. The fact they they had to let Lyons go at the end of last year due to salary cap constraints is a poor reflection on how the club has been managed

Given them additional draft picks for an extended period, give them access to a state league player for an extended period and on top of that give them access to the emerging talent in their own back yard but most importantly get them some addition coaching to help develop the players. We can't turn a blind eye to this no matter if we think it can be turned around or not

[bulldogtragic]

I favour a slow rebuild that helps the competition in the longer term than just throwing 2 early picks at them each year

They got the initial recruiting approach wrong and they got the coaching appointments wrong as well. As good as Rocket was as a coach there was no way his FIFO was what was needed. The fact they they had to let Lyons go at the end of last year due to salary cap constraints is a poor reflection on how the club has been managed

Given them additional draft picks for an extended period, give them access to a state league player for an extended period and on top of that give them access to the emerging talent in their own back yard but most importantly get them some addition coaching to help develop the players. We can't turn a blind eye to this no matter if we think it can be turned around or not

I agree that something has to happen, and not to turn eyes blind. The question is what to do about it. Either double down, or cut the losses and move the licence and invest the extra there.

[GVGjr]

I agree that something has to happen, and not to turn eyes blind. The question is what to do about it. Either double down, or cut the losses and move the licence and invest the extra there.

I'm working on the assumption we are going to try and make it work.
We can't just throw early picks at them as it's never worked. I think a gradual and sustainable build is the way to provide them some additional currency to bring in mature players. Late first round picks seem fair to me, access to a state player also seems reasonable and access to the emerging players in their won state seems to be fair. It strengthens them without impacting the competition

Getting them some salary cap relief with some controls I think helps them and an additional 2 development coaches for a period of time helps develop the talent they are bringing in.

[Twodogs]

I favour a slow rebuild that helps the competition in the longer term than just throwing 2 early picks at them each year

They got the initial recruiting approach wrong and they got the coaching appointments wrong as well. As good as Rocket was as a coach there was no way his FIFO approach was what was needed. That was always a blueprint for failure. The fact they they had to let Lyons go at the end of last year due to salary cap constraints is a poor reflection on how the club has been managed

Given them additional draft picks for an extended period, give them access to a state league player for an extended period and on top of that give them access to the emerging talent in their own back yard but most importantly get them some addition coaching to help develop the players. We can't turn a blind eye to this no matter if we think it can be turned around or not

Would you;


A/ sanction some of the picks and say that they have to swapped with other clubs for senior, ready made players that wouild improve them in the short term and may help with establishing a mature culture

and

B/ stagger the awarding of picks and say that they can use 1 this year, 2 next year and so on, as long as they show some improvement or work towards goals set as part of the process?


I agree that we can't just award them with early picks virtually as a reward for their early incompetence, but I also think that a club on the Gold Coast is untenable and the license should be awarded to another state preferably Tasmania. If they show the same amount of determination in establishing a club in Tassie as they do trying to establish one on the Coast then the club will be fine.

[bulldogtragic]

I'm working on the assumption we are going to try and make it work.
We can't just throw early picks at them as it's never worked. I think a gradual and sustainable build is the way to provide them some additional currency to bring in mature players. Late first round picks seem fair to me, access to a state player also seems reasonable and access to the emerging players in their won state seems to be fair. It strengthens them without impacting the competition

Getting them some salary cap relief with some controls I think helps them and an additional 2 development coaches for a period of time helps develop the talent they are bringing in.

I have no issue with your well thought response to GCS and what to do. A big issue they can't really stop is good players leaving almost every year. This churn is killing them, and there's a case to be made that maybe the players don't like living up there and working there. Ablett, Dixon, Lynch, May, Kolo, Bennell, Matera, Prestia, Smith, Caddy, Saad, Hickey, Hall, O'Meara, Lyons, Scrimshaw, etc. etc. Probably losing Jack Martin, Sam Day and others this year.

Until we can establish that players want to stay there and will stay there, I don't see giving them more good players to compensate for organisational mismanagement fixes things. The other 17 clubs will keep raiding them and the cycle continues. This is as crucial an area to the dysfunction, and money isn't or can't be everything. What are your thoughts to address talent retention?

Starting 18 'Exodus'

B: Kolo May Hall
HB: Saad Day Scrimshaw
C: Martin Caddy Bennell
HF: Prestia Dixon Lyons
F: Matera Lynch Smith
R: Hickey Ablett O'Meara

[Twodogs]

I have no issue with your well thought response to GCS and what to do. A big issue they can't really stop is good players leaving almost every year. This churn is killing them, and there's a case to be made that maybe the players don't like living up there and working there. Ablett, Dixon, Lynch, May, Kolo, Bennell, Matera, Prestia, Smith, Caddy, Saad, Hickey, Hall, O'Meara, Lyons, Scrimshaw, etc. etc. Probably losing Jack Martin, Sam Day and others this year.

Until we can establish that players want to stay there and will stay there, I don't see giving them more good players to compensate for organisational mismanagement fixes things. The other 17 clubs will keep raiding them and the cycle continues. This is as crucial an area to the dysfunction, and money isn't or can't be everything. What are your thoughts to address talent retention?

I'd actually be OK with that. Somewhere to park players and warehouse them until they prove the are capable of playing at a proper club.

[1eyedog]

I'd sack em this week.

[GVGjr]

I have no issue with your well thought response to GCS and what to do. A big issue they can't really stop is good players leaving almost every year. This churn is killing them, and there's a case to be made that maybe the players don't like living up there and working there. Ablett, Dixon, Lynch, May, Kolo, Bennell, Matera, Prestia, Smith, Caddy, Saad, Hickey, Hall, O'Meara, Lyons, Scrimshaw, etc. etc. Probably losing Jack Martin, Sam Day and others this year.

Until we can establish that players want to stay there and will stay there, I don't see giving them more good players to compensate for organisational mismanagement fixes things. The other 17 clubs will keep raiding them and the cycle continues. This is as crucial an area to the dysfunction, and money isn't or can't be everything. What are your thoughts to address talent retention?

Starting 18 'Exodus'

B: Kolo May Hall
HB: Saad Day Scrimshaw
C: Martin Caddy Bennell
HF: Prestia Dixon Lyons
F: Matera Lynch Smith
R: Hickey Ablett O'Meara

Giving them some additional salary cap will help as will access to players already in Queensland will also be good for player retention
All clubs lose players, unless we make the club stronger it will continue to happen to the Suns
They've been losing players because they've been down for way too long so I do think getting some additional support with player development will go a long way of creating a stronger club environment. We only have to look as far as Brisbane for a great example of what needs to happen. I don't think this can't be fixed

[bornadog]

Giving them some additional salary cap will help as will access to players already in Queensland will also be good for player retention
All clubs lose players, unless we make the club stronger it will continue to happen to the Suns
They've been losing players because they've been down for way too long so I do think getting some additional support with player development will go a long way of creating a stronger club environment. We only have to look as far as Brisbane for a great example of what needs to happen. I don't think this can't be fixed

I like your plan but I also worry as BT said the retention rate and how to fix it?

I don't mind the idea Wayne Carey put forward and that is in order to attract some good experienced players, perhaps GC could give up their drafted picks from last year and trade for a couple of very good players from other clubs? That could be one short term fix at least.

[GVGjr]

I like your plan but I also worry as BT said the retention rate and how to fix it?

I don't mind the idea Wayne Carey put forward and that is in order to attract some good experienced players, perhaps GC could give up their drafted picks from last year and trade for a couple of very good players from other clubs? That could be one short term fix at least.

That is why I think giving them end of first round draft picks along with access to a state league player over 3 years but with the ability to trade those options for established players would given them the additional currency they need to attract players.
If they traded their access to a state league player for a solid player from another club along with a first round pick, their end of for first round pick and their early second round pick they can land established players. They will probably need some additional cap space though

Brisbane loaded up with quality youngsters and gave them a better environment and it's quickly worked, the same can happen for the Suns if they forget about the likes of putting all their eggs into the likes of GAJ.

They also need help to develop players.

[Twodogs]

I favour a slow rebuild that helps the competition in the longer term than just throwing 2 early picks at them each year

They got the initial recruiting approach wrong and they got the coaching appointments wrong as well. As good as Rocket was as a coach there was no way his FIFO approach was what was needed. That was always a blueprint for failure. The fact they they had to let Lyons go at the end of last year due to salary cap constraints is a poor reflection on how the club has been managed

Given them additional draft picks for an extended period, give them access to a state league player for an extended period and on top of that give them access to the emerging talent in their own back yard but most importantly get them some addition coaching to help develop the players. We can't turn a blind eye to this no matter if we think it can be turned around or not


Would you;


A/ sanction some of the picks and say that they have to swapped with other clubs for senior, ready made players that wouild improve them in the short term and may help with establishing a mature culture

and

B/ stagger the awarding of picks and say that they can use 1 this year, 2 next year and so on, as long as they show some improvement or work towards goals set as part of the process?


I agree that we can't just award them with early picks virtually as a reward for their early incompetence, but I also think that a club on the Gold Coast is untenable and the license should be awarded to another state preferably Tasmania. If they show the same amount of determination in establishing a club in Tassie as they do trying to establish one on the Coast then the club will be fine.


Giving them some additional salary cap will help as will access to players already in Queensland will also be good for player retention
All clubs lose players, unless we make the club stronger it will continue to happen to the Suns
They've been losing players because they've been down for way too long so I do think getting some additional support with player development will go a long way of creating a stronger club environment. We only have to look as far as Brisbane for a great example of what needs to happen. I don't think this can't be fixed


I like your plan but I also worry as BT said the retention rate and how to fix it?

I don't mind the idea Wayne Carey put forward and that is in order to attract some good experienced players, perhaps GC could give up their drafted picks from last year and trade for a couple of very good players from other clubs? That could be one short term fix at least.

I've got two kids that pretty much ignore everything I say too. ;)

[Ghost Dog]

Jarrod Harbrow, 150 games, take a bow. One positive.

[GVGjr]

Would you;


A/ sanction some of the picks and say that they have to swapped with other clubs for senior, ready made players that wouild improve them in the short term and may help with establishing a mature culture

and

B/ stagger the awarding of picks and say that they can use 1 this year, 2 next year and so on, as long as they show some improvement or work towards goals set as part of the process?


I agree that we can't just award them with early picks virtually as a reward for their early incompetence, but I also think that a club on the Gold Coast is untenable and the license should be awarded to another state preferably Tasmania. If they show the same amount of determination in establishing a club in Tassie as they do trying to establish one on the Coast then the club will be fine.

It's as per my first post. 3 consecutive years of end of first round picks, 3 consecutive years of being able to pre-list players from the state leagues. Both of those options are able to be traded for established players. 3 consecutive years of being able to pre-list 2 under 18's players from Queensland. 3 years of additional coaching resources to be funded by the AFL and additional salary cap space to help with player retention

It cant be ongoing which is why I favor a short sharp burst of giving them more options

[bornadog]

It's as per my first post. 3 consecutive years of end of first round picks, 3 consecutive years of being able to pre-list players from the state leagues. Both of those options are able to be traded for established players. 3 consecutive years of being able to pre-list 2 under 18's players from Queensland. 3 years of additional coaching resources to be funded by the AFL and additional salary cap space to help with player retention

It cant be ongoing which is why I favor a short sharp burst of giving them more options

I bet the other clubs won't like it.

[GVGjr]

I bet the other clubs won't like it.

The other option is to give them the first 3 picks each year at the draft for a couple of years which the other clubs certainly won't like

To me it's balanced, reasonable and has a start and end date. Basically they get access to 4 players each year, some salary cap relief to retain players and additional coaching resources to help develop players.

If it can be done at Brisbane in terms of being turned around I can't see why it can't be done at Gold Coast. They've made a heap of mistakes with recruitment, coaching and player development and the AFL must insert someone to review the opportunities to make them competitive.

[bornadog]

The other option is to give them the first 3 picks each year at the draft for a couple of years which the other clubs certainly won't like

To me it's balanced, reasonable and has a start and end date. Basically they get access to 4 players each year, some salary cap relief to retain players and additional coaching resources to help develop players.

If it can be done at Brisbane in terms of being turned around I can't see why it can't be done at Gold Coast. They've made a heap of mistakes with recruitment, coaching and player development and the AFL must insert someone to review the opportunities to make them competitive.

Another way to look at it, is to consider, is it worth pursuing on the Gold Coast? Maybe for once the AFL have to admit they made a big mistake.

I heard a caller on SEN say she was at the game last week, and there were very few GC supporters. She said it must be heartbreaking for players to play in front of those sort of crowds. Average crowds at home have continued to fall over the past 5 plus years and are only propped up by a few opposition supporters.

I really have my doubts whether it is going to work.

[Ghost Dog]

Good point. Careers will suffer being sent there. Young players are not really going to enjoy crowd support of any significance, at least not in our lifetimes.

[GVGjr]

Another way to look at it, is to consider, is it worth pursuing on the Gold Coast? Maybe for once the AFL have to admit they made a big mistake.

I heard a caller on SEN say she was at the game last week, and there were very few GC supporters. She said it must be heartbreaking for players to play in front of those sort of crowds. Average crowds at home have continued to fall over the past 5 plus years and are only propped up by a few opposition supporters.

I really have my doubts whether it is going to work.

That's not what I'm considering though. I'm looking at what is required to make them competitive. I think 17 teams would be a disaster for us and while I'd like to see a team in Tas, I don't think it's a viable option

The easy thing is to walk away, I don't think it's the right thing though until we at least explore some of the alternatives

[bulldogtragic]

That's not what I'm considering though. I'm looking at what is required to make them competitive. I think 17 teams would be a disaster for us and while I'd like to see a team in Tas, I don't think it's a viable option

The easy thing is to walk away, I don't think it's the right thing though until we at least explore some of the alternatives

It doesn't have to be Tassie though. The GCS could become the Northern Australia Suns with the 18th licence. There's a good group of afl supporters in Cairns, Darwin and Alice Springs for their 11 games, there's certainly more than support the GCS. Give them the NT and Tiwi as an academy zone (but more like the proposed 40+ range being mooted for the WA clubs). Give them some extra cap, that works it way back to normal. The coaches you talk about. Give them the ability throw huge money at a few marquee players with AFEL marketing money. And lobby the Federal Government to invest in the grounds, create lots of jobs and support the communities on the NAS. They'd have an awesome home ground/s advantage too.

It's probably just me, but that seems more viable to grow the 18th licence supporter base and hooks into three grounds (across two states) that have a following. It might bring more indigenous players into the game, for those kids who can't or don't want to leave home but are more than talented enough for the AFEL, which is a great thing. The AFEL could start to do some really good grass roots work with a 'local' team. From a TV rights deal, they'd open up more of an audience, which makes the AFEL more money and increases their personal bonuses.

I agree, it doesn't have to be Tassie getting a licence on their own.

[hujsh]

That's not what I'm considering though. I'm looking at what is required to make them competitive. I think 17 teams would be a disaster for us and while I'd like to see a team in Tas, I don't think it's a viable option

The easy thing is to walk away, I don't think it's the right thing though until we at least explore some of the alternatives

I disagree personally. If Tassie can sustain themselves and add that extra televised fixture but don't expand the supporter base I still think that's viable. Moreso than having 9 Melbourne teams or sinking money into teams without any supporters that don't seem to be growing at least. Though that's probably a separate thread's discussion

[Rocket Science]

That's not what I'm considering though. I'm looking at what is required to make them competitive. I think 17 teams would be a disaster for us and while I'd like to see a team in Tas, I don't think it's a viable option

Well, speaking of viability, as BT remarked they've been given every opportunity and advantage since formation including hand-picked AFEL-sanctioned staff pulling the levers and almost two decades later they're still a soulless fabrication stained by endemic failure by any measurable standard, one that is a prolonged drain on the competition while expecting ongoing reward for ineptitude and presumably requires league-mandated success on a silver platter to remotely hope of engaging a supporter base that doesn't even exist.

The other problem the Suns have is QLD already has a club, and a suddenly very attractive one at that.

Or we can have a club in a state where the game's culture is already ingrained in the local fabric and you'd expect die-hard enough to support their team through thick and thin, not if and only if they're gifted success. The game at local level in Tasmania is desperately owed some rehabilitation and support too. These are the unspoken costs of the Suns experiment. Yes it has some challenges but if we can endlessly prop up the grotesque northern experiment for a community that doesn't care then we can equally do so for a community that does.

That said there's virtually no chance short of a bloody insurrection the AFEL will ever give up on their shitty frankenclub up north. They should be folded for pinching Harbrow and that wretched excuse for a jumper alone.

[bornadog]

It doesn't have to be Tassie though. The GCS could become the Northern Australia Suns with the 18th licence. There's a good group of afl supporters in Cairns, Darwin and Alice Springs for their 11 games, there's certainly more than support the GCS. Give them the NT and Tiwi as an academy zone (but more like the proposed 40+ range being mooted for the WA clubs). Give them some extra cap, that works it way back to normal. The coaches you talk about. Give them the ability throw huge money at a few marquee players with AFEL marketing money. And lobby the Federal Government to invest in the grounds, create lots of jobs and support the communities on the NAS. They'd have an awesome home ground/s advantage too.

It's probably just me, but that seems more viable to grow the 18th licence supporter base and hooks into three grounds (across two states) that have a following. It might bring more indigenous players into the game, for those kids who can't or don't want to leave home but are more than talented enough for the AFEL, which is a great thing. The AFEL could start to do some really good grass roots work with a 'local' team. From a TV rights deal, they'd open up more of an audience, which makes the AFEL more money and increases their personal bonuses.

I agree, it doesn't have to be Tassie getting a licence on their own.

BT you have nailed it. This is the best solution to date. The AFL can piss off Melbourne in Darwin and the Alice, and Saints (was Dogs) out of Cairns. Forget States, Northern Australia sounds good to me.

[Happy Days]

BT you have nailed it. This is the best solution to date. The AFL can piss off Melbourne in Darwin and the Alice, and Saints (was Dogs) out of Cairns. Forget States, Northern Australia sounds good to me.

I can't see players wanting to play for a team that has to spread their base out over such a wide area. The travel alone would be hell on the bodies.

[bornadog]

I can't see players wanting to play for a team that has to spread their base out over such a wide area. The travel alone would be hell on the bodies.

West Coast and Freo travel all over Australia.

[soupman]

West Coast and Freo travel all over Australia.

Yeah but in the Northern Australian idea they travel all over for their home games as well. It's bad enough flying every second week, imagine being based in Cairns but every second or third home game you are flying to Darwin or Alice (not to mention spending considerable time in the pre-season in those locations as well to try and make them feel like you are their club). Good luck selling that idea.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I think access to some seriously credentialled culture builder type players is key, irrespective to what else is put together to assist.
Can i preface what I'm about to say with, I DO NOT WANT THIS TO HAPPEN.

But for shits and giggles; Luke says to Moz end of the year, ' just not seeing a spot next year mate; you know you're still good enough, but we need to get games into some guys. We both know you're still good enough, and I know the fire still burns - Gold Coast would love to have you drive the development of their culture. You'd go with our blessing."

I want Dale to play for us until he can play no more, but he's the exact archetype of person they need. Heart and Soul and his values and approach just washes over everyone at the club.

[Twodogs]

Wash your eyes out with soap!


I could imagine another club taking Moz. Like you say he is a heart and soul culture building type player.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Wash your eyes out with soap!


I could imagine another club taking Moz. Like you say he is a heart and soul culture building type player.

I know. I threw up multiple times in my mouth as I wrote it.

[hujsh]

Shaun Burgoyne has been thrown up for that role. He's not Morris but he might do.

[Webby]

I read today that rumours are building re a relocation of the NRL’s Gold Coast Titans to Brisbane.

As TV viewership, state of origin hysteria and the strength of the Brisbane Broncos and NQ Cowboys demonstrate, Queensland is rugby league mad... and yet, not even that sport can make a team work on the Gold Coast. So a minority sport stands zero chance.

The club should be disbanded and the licence transferred (along with the playing list) to either of Tassie or Perth. The Gold Coast is purely a graveyard and the AFL are throwing good money after bad.

[Twodogs]

I read today that rumours are building re a relocation of the NRL’s Gold Coast Titans to Brisbane.

As TV viewership, state of origin hysteria and the strength of the Brisbane Broncos and NQ Cowboys demonstrate, Queensland is rugby league mad... and yet, not even that sport can make a team work on the Gold Coast. So a minority sport stands zero chance.

The club should be disbanded and the licence transferred (along with the playing list) to either of Tassie or Perth. The Gold Coast is purely a graveyard and the AFL are throwing good money after bad.


Yep. Like a pokies addict chasing their losses.


And the NRL take equalisation a lot more seriously than the AFL. just in this century every NRL team has made the Grand Final except for Canberra and Gold Coast but even those clubs have made preliminary finals in fact Canberra have been a try away from making the GF. So the Titans would have been given every chance to succeed, if the NRL can't get a club on the Gold Coast to work then there is no chance that a cowboy outfit like the AFL will. It will just suck as much money into a black hole as they want to spend. I don't trust the people running the club either-they will stand at the front of the queue and take as much money as the AFL wants to give them.

[soupman]

Honestly I think the Gold Coast is the best of a bad bunch of options for an 18th team.

What are the alternatives?

Tasmania is the obvious one. But it's a state that has a divide between north and south. Hobart, it's biggest city, has a population of 206,000 people, and Tassie people aren't exactly known to turn up to events in force, so what happens if 3 years down the track we have a team that is averaging 9,000 people at their games, has no real potential for growth in the city, and is trying to sell itself to 24 year old men with money as the place they want to spend their 20's. I think Tassie will have just as hard a time as Gold Coast presently does both attracting a crowd and attracting players.

Canberra is bigger, but again at 400,000 people it's not huge, and has a traditionally transient population. Also the fact that literally no one has even jokingly raised them as an option ever would suggest to me that they are no chance.

Darwin/Cairns/Alice/any regional hot town. Tiny populations (Those first three combined have about 300,000 people), shithouse conditions, high likelihood of having to split time between various towns, no chance. You think player retention is tough for Brisbane.

Perth. Attendances indicate they turn up and definitely sell memberships, but what would a third clubs point of difference be? Would they be able to recruit many, if any new members. And aside from the extra game in Perth each week do they actually grow the game? Nope.

Sydney is big enough, but GWS are still trying to gain a foothold and they're actually pretty good. Another team there is about a century away.

Brisbane again is big enough, but the Lions have struggled there for ages and Gold Coast is as close as you could put a team.

So the choice is between Gold Coast and Tassie. Either way it's not going to be a strong club in the near future, on field or off, but if we assess it as follows:
Who will have bigger crowds in 10 years time: Gold Coast probably, in 30 years definitely.
Who can grow the game more: Gold Coast is hitting up a largely untapped region with bigger potential for sponsorship and corporate support plus a much bigger pool of people to convert as members.
Who will be able to attract players and staff: Gold Coast for sure. Tassie is great but who wants to move there in their 20's that isn't from Tassie.
Who deserves it: Tassie does.

So either you move them to Tassie and say you aren't doing this for the benefit of growing the game or creating a potentially strong club long term, but rather you are doing it to make a community club for a community that is already yours. It will always be hamstrung by virtue of being in Tassie, but it will hopefully give Tasmanian football overall the kick up the arse it needs. From the start you'd be making a small club, with limited scope and probably always in need of support. You'd be making North.

...Or you stick with Gold Coast, who you always knew was going to be a long term proposition, which hasn't been helped in the short term by a complete lack of performance on field. You stick it out, try and make them good and see if that brings people through the gates (surely the Gold Coast would be one of the most fickle audiences going around so you cant say their crowds when they are shit show their potential). This side has scope long term to be an asset to the competition.

The third option is to kill Gold Coast and have either a 17 team comp, or kill another team as well to make it 16 again. But either way that's a horrible option.

So now we just have to make Gold Coast good and then give them some time to grow.

[bornadog]

Great analysis Soupaman.

[Webby]

Honestly I think the Gold Coast is the best of a bad bunch of options for an 18th team.

What are the alternatives?



FWIW, I believe it’s very simple that Perth warrants a third team. WCE are the richest club in the competition by some distance, whilst, despite themselves, Fremantle are in the top five.

This says to me that Perth can support a third club. Personally, I’d put it out there to a conglomerate of WAFL clubs to come up
With a joint venture. This way, you get your 18th team, fulfil TV commitments, and tap into the big corporate resource sector money in Perth.

Corporate suites sell out at Optus stadium in a heart beat. There’s plenty of cash in Perth. Despite detractors, GWS has worked as the maths was simple. The population in western Sydney is enormous and people out there find getting to the SCG time prohibitive. So the AFL needs to take a “one out of two ain’t bad” approach, pull up stumps and go third team in Perth.

Although my heart says a Tassie team is right and just, my brain just can’t have it. There’s neither the population nor the corporate dollar to support a team down there.

Tassie’s Everything the Gold Coast isn’t, whilst the Gold Coast is everything Tassie isn’t. Between them they’ve got all of the necessary ingredients. However both of them, on their own, don’t have the necessary ingredients. It’s a pity, but that’s life.

Perth it is, for mine. But finally, if GC was ever to work, it was via the Norf relocation. At least that way there’s a rotation of visitors going up there from Norf’s supporter base, bigger crowds for the Melbourne away games, and a few more opposition fans who would travel up there with their Norf mates. In short, the solid foundation of an existing club.

Unfortunately, when Norf voted the move down, the AFL overstepped by going ahead with a start up.

Finally, wouldn’t it have been easier and cheaper to have simply supported Fitzroy for a few more years, prior to gently suggesting a relocation? Would have been a much, much better outcome for everyone.. Pissing away 110+ year old, beloved institutions is anathema.

My suggestion is allowing the Perth footy club to get together with Subiaco, West Perth, Swan District etc, use the vacant Perth FC name, and form a third team up there with some solid links to a handful of clubs. To me, it makes complete sense.

[Mofra]

I disagree personally. If Tassie can sustain themselves and add that extra televised fixture but don't expand the supporter base I still think that's viable. Moreso than having 9 Melbourne teams or sinking money into teams without any supporters that don't seem to be growing at least. Though that's probably a separate thread's discussion
Tassie is not united though, the south vs north issue is massive.
If they could solve that dilemma they could make a serious case of a team but until they do the AFL won't consider it.

[Twodogs]

FWIW, I believe it’s very simple that Perth warrants a third team. WCE are the richest club in the competition by some distance, whilst, despite themselves, Fremantle are in the top five.

This says to me that Perth can support a third club. Personally, I’d put it out there to a conglomerate of WAFL clubs to come up
With a joint venture. This way, you get your 18th team, fulfil TV commitments, and tap into the big corporate resource sector money in Perth.

Corporate suites sell out at Optus stadium in a heart beat. There’s plenty of cash in Perth. Despite detractors, GWS has worked as the maths was simple. The population in western Sydney is enormous and people out there find getting to the SCG time prohibitive. So the AFL needs to take a “one out of two ain’t bad” approach, pull up stumps and go third team in Perth.

Although my heart says a Tassie team is right and just, my brain just can’t have it. There’s neither the population nor the corporate dollar to support a team down there.

Tassie’s Everything the Gold Coast isn’t, whilst the Gold Coast is everything Tassie isn’t. Between them they’ve got all of the necessary ingredients. However both of them, on their own, don’t have the necessary ingredients. It’s a pity, but that’s life.

Perth it is, for mine. But finally, if GC was ever to work, it was via the Norf relocation. At least that way there’s a rotation of visitors going up there from Norf’s supporter base, bigger crowds for the Melbourne away games, and a few more opposition fans who would travel up there with their Norf mates. In short, the solid foundation of an existing club.

Unfortunately, when Norf voted the move down, the AFL overstepped by going ahead with a start up.

Finally, wouldn’t it have been easier and cheaper to have simply supported Fitzroy for a few more years, prior to gently suggesting a relocation? Would have been a much, much better outcome for everyone.. Pissing away 110+ year old, beloved institutions is anathema.

My suggestion is allowing the Perth footy club to get together with Subiaco, West Perth, Swan District etc, use the vacant Perth FC name, and form a third team up there with some solid links to a handful of clubs. To me, it makes complete sense.

It would have been much simpler but unfortunately society was in the thrall of economic rationalists telling us that we couldn't afford to do the decent and honorable thing by the people who had done so much for the competion. A lot of people bag Ross Oakley but it was Wayne Jackson who destroyed the fabric and integrity of the competition.

[jeemak]

It would have been much simpler but unfortunately society was in the thrall of economic rationalists telling us that we couldn't afford to do the decent and honorable thing by the people who had done so much for the competion. A lot of people bag Ross Oakley but it was Wayne Jackson who destroyed the fabric and integrity of the competition.

Aren't we lucky that's no longer the case...…….:rolleyes:

Good posts Soup and Web.

[Murphy'sLore]

Damn you Soupaman and your infernal logic.

[Twodogs]

Aren't we lucky that's no longer the case...…….:rolleyes:

Good posts Soup and Web.


Mate, they don't even pretend that economic policy is for the greater good anymore. It's all me, me, me and walking over dead bodies. We are in the time of the proud scum bag.

[boydogs]

This is a good discussion but there's a bunch of questionable assumptions going into it

1. They are fixable
2. We want to fix them
3. They need fixing

Look at the timing of this discussion, their onfield performance has gotten worse as the season as progressed, after winning 3 of their first 4 and losing the 4th by a point. Typical of a young side. Player retention is an issue but Brisbane & GWS have had the same problem, even Sydney had a COLA introduced to combat that - only they got too good and we had to take it off them again

Give them their COLA to help recruit & keep their players and give them time

[GVGjr]

This is a good discussion but there's a bunch of questionable assumptions going into it

1. They are fixable
2. We want to fix them
3. They need fixing

Look at the timing of this discussion, their onfield performance has gotten worse as the season as progressed, after winning 3 of their first 4 and losing the 4th by a point. Typical of a young side. Player retention is an issue but Brisbane & GWS have had the same problem, even Sydney had a COLA introduced to combat that - only they got too good and we had to take it off them again

Give them their COLA to help recruit & keep their players and give them time

I don't think we have any choice but to double the efforts to make them more viable
No more short term dubious fixes, no more franchise player deals like Ablett
Give them extra dollars to fund genuine player retention and additional coaching resources to develop the talent they draft
Give then some end of first round picks for 3 consecutive years and access to pre list maybe two state league players for 3 years

I remain convinced that if Brisbane can be turned around so can the Suns

[bulldogtragic]

The AFEL have to do something now. Outside of the Essendon year ban from WADA, and initial years of start up franchises, they're about to register the worst percentage since Fitzroy were killed/merged. It's starting to get serious, and the cocaine culture with Crossly now shows its alive and well. Plus several good players still look to be on the out soon. I still struggle to believe we lost at home to them. Anyhoo, the AFEL can't allow this to continue so give them a handout or end them. But it's starting to really stink. I'm willing to even entertain end of first round compo (must be traded) and extra cap. Let them target a Mitch a Wallis type of on field and off field leader and give them the money to make it worth their while. I'm also happy to see the back of them. I'm still not sure this franchise can turn things around.

Edit: Checked ladder. Nearly 2,000 points against with 9 quarters left in the season!

[AshMac]

Agree them leaving the league is now beyond untenable - but how did the AFL expect them to ever be successful with how they setup their entrance to the league?

It was only 2 years ago they got genuine AFL standard training and meeting facilities. Until then they had school portables which were up to 45 degrees during 30+ days for meetings. Their aqua training facilities were a 40 minute drive away from the ground they trained on which meant you often had significant travel time for players. It was pathetic.

Amongst all that they had the weight of being “gifted” draft picks and extra money to establish which carried a bunch of expectations which were impossible to meet.

Despite this, more than happy to gut their superstars for our line up.

[westdog54]

Agree them leaving the league is now beyond untenable - but how did the AFL expect them to ever be successful with how they setup their entrance to the league?

It was only 2 years ago they got genuine AFL standard training and meeting facilities. Until then they had school portables which were up to 45 degrees during 30+ days for meetings. Their aqua training facilities were a 40 minute drive away from the ground they trained on which meant you often had significant travel time for players. It was pathetic.

Amongst all that they had the weight of being “gifted” draft picks and extra money to establish which carried a bunch of expectations which were impossible to meet.

Despite this, more than happy to gut their superstars for our line up.
Even then, their concessions were not as generous as those afforded to GWS. Among other factors, they didn't have the benefit of trading out mini draft selections. These yielded GWS an extra 5 first round picks over 2 years.

[bulldogtragic]

Got given the keys to a premiership: (trade radio)

Suns will have picks 1 & 20 compo:

•Pick #1 and first pick of the second round (currently pick #20) in the 2019 NAB AFL Draft.
•Mid-first round pick (currently pick #11) in the 2020 NAB AFL Draft.
•First pick of the second round (currently pick #19) in the 2021 NAB AFL Draft.

The Suns will also receive expanded academy player access for 3 years including:
•Provision of the Darwin region as an academy zone.
•Ability to pre-sign Gold Coast SUNS academy players (including those from Darwin) without bidding.
•Increased rookie list, up to 10 players

........

I still feel Northern Australia Suns is a strong chance. Essentially having Darwin as a linked region. Plus their work with the NT government about working together and commitment to Cairns.

[GVGjr]

It's a great start to make them more competitive. I'm OK with what the AFL has put forward and see it as a positive.

They desperately need two more development coaches to make sure the top end talent receives good coaching

They will also trade some of those picks so it's a potential opportunity for us

[comrade]

Thank **** we won a flag in 2016 and are ready to contend again. You would hate to be supporting a team in that limbo phase like Saints/North/Adelaide with another lowly team having such a leg up.

[choconmientay]

Got given the keys to a premiership: (trade radio)

Suns will have picks 1 & 20 compo:

•Pick #1 and first pick of the second round (currently pick #20) in the 2019 NAB AFL Draft.
•Mid-first round pick (currently pick #11) in the 2020 NAB AFL Draft.
•First pick of the second round (currently pick #19) in the 2021 NAB AFL Draft.

The Suns will also receive expanded academy player access for 3 years including:
•Provision of the Darwin region as an academy zone.
•Ability to pre-sign Gold Coast SUNS academy players (including those from Darwin) without bidding.
•Increased rookie list, up to 10 players

........

I still feel Northern Australia Suns is a strong chance. Essentially having Darwin as a linked region. Plus their work with the NT government about working together and commitment to Cairns.

C'on BT ;) Where is the detailed analysis of what is the flow-on impact to us this year and 2020.

[comrade]

C'on BT ;) Where is the detailed analysis of what is the flow-on impact to us this year and 2020.

I agree, BT - clocks ticking...

[Ozza]

Yep, pretty flat if you are North, Melbourne or the Saints. Struggling to lure big names, over paying for the likes of Polec, Hanneberry and Tomlinson just to get someone in, and then screwed on picks.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I still do not like them having pick 1,2 and 20.
They can get as many kids as they like, but until they solve for the reason they're all leaving, that's precisely what will keep happening, and the Tigers, Hawks, Bombers, and Pies will keep trading for them every 2 or so years as they come out of contract.

[comrade]

I still do not like them having pick 1,2 and 20.
They can get as many kids as they like, but until they solve for the reason they're all leaving, that's precisely what will keep happening, and the Tigers, Hawks, Bombers, and Pies will keep trading for them every 2 or so years as they come out of contract.

They need salary cap concessions - an extra mill a year for 3-5 years to retain and consolidate their list, build a culture and set themselves up for the future.

Richmond are just licking their lips at this news.

[bulldogtragic]

C'on BT ;) Where is the detailed analysis of what is the flow-on impact to us this year and 2020.


I agree, BT - clocks ticking...

I'll use old material, which could be more likely now.

Say they have pick 3 & 11 next year. Say we have pick 14. Trade that to GCS for their 2020 2nd, 3rd & 4th's exchange. Which is even more likely as they hit next year's draft with three 1st rounders. Great result for them.

GCS: 3, 11, 14
Dogs: 21, 32, 39, 50, 57 = 2,363 points from trading with GCS & if we can get Freo 2020 2nd - circa 677 = 3,040 draft points which is a very strong position for us

A later pick this year would be nice if we wanted one. Pick 56 or 75.

The trade last year between GCS & Brisbane is: Pick 14 to GCS - for - Pick 19, Pick 19 & Pick 46 to Brisbane. (Futures obviously involved)

So Pick 14 to GCS - for - Picks 21, 39 & 57 (and something later this year they won't use) is still a fair bit under that trade above.

With lots of picks and not having to worry about points, they could be an ideal draft points trading partner for our priority access kids next year.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

They need salary cap concessions - an extra mill a year for 3-5 years to retain and consolidate their list, build a culture and set themselves up for the future.

Richmond are just licking their lips at this news.

They need to take a leaf out of Brisbane's book. They were losing young players left, right, and centre only a few years ago. They lost Docherty, Yeo, Longer, Polec, Crisp...maybe another...
Now they've got players queuing up to come and play there. AFL didn't give them any extra picks. They forced them to analyse what they were doing wrong and fix it.

[soupman]

This is a bit of a reset opportunity, and they should really try to take the good bits from the GWS model.

They should target 2-3 good young guys at other clubs who a) want to be there ($$$ is obviously the easiest way to get them interested but they need to really entrench them in the club like GWS did with Ward and Davis), and b) can facilitate the clubs growth. They may already have one at the club in Swallow, may snag another this year in Crouch, so really only need a couple of other standard bearers who can carry them a bit.

They shouldn't be scared of overpaying in trades, the Weller trade for all the mockery looks fine. Weller has been good for them so far, Ballard has heaps of potential and Brayshaw probably would have left a couple of years in anyway, and doesn't really look elite for mine.

[bornadog]

This is a bit of a reset opportunity, and they should really try to take the good bits from the GWS model.

They should target 2-3 good young guys at other clubs who a) want to be there ($$$ is obviously the easiest way to get them interested but they need to really entrench them in the club like GWS did with Ward and Davis), and b) can facilitate the clubs growth. They may already have one at the club in Swallow, may snag another this year in Crouch, so really only need a couple of other standard bearers who can carry them a bit.

They shouldn't be scared of overpaying in trades, the Weller trade for all the mockery looks fine. Weller has been good for them so far, Ballard has heaps of potential and Brayshaw probably would have left a couple of years in anyway, and doesn't really look elite for mine.

Apparently they are going to target players around mid 20's ie those in the middle of their career instead of hasbeens that are looking for more money but ion their final years. I think that is a good move.

[choconmientay]

I'll use old material, which could be more likely now.

Say they have pick 3 & 11 next year. Say we have pick 14. Trade that to GCS for their 2020 2nd, 3rd & 4th's exchange. Which is even more likely as they hit next year's draft with three 1st rounders. Great result for them.

GCS: 3, 11, 14
Dogs: 21, 32, 39, 50, 57 = 2,363 points from trading with GCS & if we can get Freo 2020 2nd - circa 677 = 3,040 draft points which is a very strong position for us

A later pick this year would be nice if we wanted one. Pick 56 or 75.

The trade last year between GCS & Brisbane is: Pick 14 to GCS - for - Pick 19, Pick 19 & Pick 46 to Brisbane. (Futures obviously involved)

So Pick 14 to GCS - for - Picks 21, 39 & 57 (and something later this year they won't use) is still a fair bit under that trade above.

With lots of picks and not having to worry about points, they could be an ideal draft points trading partner for our priority access kids next year.


Apparently they are going to target players around mid 20's ie those in the middle of their career instead of hasbeens that are looking for more money but ion their final years. I think that is a good move.


Can you look into working something out, sending Jong/Roberts/Lynch to the GC for next years picks and free up list spots for this year? Jong has been linked to them in the past. Fletcher has got Premiership experience and should have some currency. Lynch doesn't seem to be able to break into the main team and may have more opportunity with them?

[bornadog]

Tom Morris reporting - Hugh Greenwood will play for Gold Coast next year.

[bulldogtragic]

Can you look into working something out, sending Jong/Roberts/Lynch to the GC for next years picks and free up list spots for this year? Jong has been linked to them in the past. Fletcher has got Premiership experience and should have some currency. Lynch doesn't seem to be able to break into the main team and may have more opportunity with them?

There was a media report a couple of weeks ago saying Essendon & GCS had some interest in him as a cheap, free agent KPD.

[GVGjr]

I have a 3 year plan for the Suns to get them to a very competitive position and I believe it's necessary to keep an 18 team competition viable

For the 2019, 2020 and 2021 draft/trading period they receive:

One additional end of first round draft pick for the 3 years. This can also be used to trade for experienced players but primarily to give the Suns the currency to take advantage of whatever options present

Access to pre-list one State League player for each of the 3 years. They do not need to use a draft pick to acquire the player but equally they can work with other clubs who might value some players enough to offer a good draft pick. These players must have been on an AFL list before

Access to two Queensland based under 18 players for each of the 3 years without having to given up a pick.

The AFL to stump up to pay for 2 additional development coaches to really provide the players at the club specialist coaching

I'd also be willing to review a modest increase to the salary cap to help the club bring in experienced players

It might seem too lenient but unless they get some assistance they could be down for way too long
It's been poorly managed form the get go and the AFL needs to step in and help them along. Early draft picks have been proven not to work for them and this will give them some options to bring in some more ready made players.

Thoughts?

I wasn't too far off the mark with this plan and the AFL has actually gone a lot harder at addressing their challenges

I hope the Suns are given access to some additional development coaches to work with the new arrivals

[bornadog]

Gordon to AFL: Please explain Suns decision (https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/afl-unveils-gold-coast-package-20190930-p52w5r.html)


Western Bulldogs president Peter Gordon is calling on the AFL to explain how its unprecedented package of help to Gold Coast will assist the Suns in the short term, suggesting that the league should have forced the club to trade early picks for experienced players.


While responses were mixed, several clubs were left privately fuming after the league unveiled its extraordinary assistance package for the expansion club, which contains a suite of draft and list concessions.

The Suns will get a priority pick, giving them selections one and two in the national draft this year plus an extra at the start of the 2019 second round.


They will get a pick in the middle of the first round in 2020 – currently pick 11 – and a pick at the start of the second round in 2021.


The assistance package means certain No.1 pick Matt Rowell in this year's national draft is all but assured of being joined at the Suns by his Carey Grammar school mate and close friend Noah Anderson, as a likely No.2 pick.


In effect, picks 2 and 20 this year, pick 11 next year and pick 19 the year after, are headed for the Suns, subject to other compensation picks for free agency.


The arrangement is more generous than rival clubs had expected. The AFL's package is a response to the club's dismal on-field results, its ongoing challenges in keeping top players such as Tom Lynch, who left as a free agent last year and has just helped Richmond premiership, along with Dion Prestia (Richmond), Jaeger O'Meara (Hawthorn) and Gary Ablett (Geelong).


Even this year, as the Suns have shown signs of improvement under coach Stewart Dew, they are still set to lose Jack Martin, who wants to join Carlton and Callum Ah Chee, who has asked for a trade to the Brisbane Lions.


Gordon told The Age that the league had a responsibility to further clarify its decisions.


"I think the AFL ought to explain how the steps it has announced will assist competitive balance for the Suns in 2020 and 2021," Gordon said.


"For me, it would have made more sense to provide those picks but to also oblige the Suns to trade those picks for quality mature and experienced players ... which is what they seem to lack and explains why their season tailed off so badly.


"The steps they've taken seem to me to be doing more of the same but expecting a different result. You'd hope these matters actually get discussed at Commission meetings."

Gold Coast chief executive Mark Evans said the Suns were open to using their future picks as trade bait: "It's certainly an option," he said.


"[Recruiting manager] Craig Cameron would kill me if I didn't say, we're open for business.


"If someone wants those picks, come after them hard."


But Evans said he doubted the Suns would trade away this year's top draft picks.


"The AFL Commission have not imposed any restriction on what we do with those selections," Evans said. "They could be traded, but I would imagine picks one and picks two would be hard to prise out of our hands."


Adelaide, who received Carlton's first-round pick via a draft-night trade last year, were among the losers from the package, slipping from pick No.4 to No.5 this year. The Crows had made a submission to the AFL arguing that it would be unfair for a priority pick to be awarded given clubs had dealt future picks last year.


The Suns found an ally in the form of Sydney chairman Andrew Pridham, who supported the AFL measures.


"I think they need help and it's good to see that the AFL Commission has recognised that in a meaningful way," Pridham told The Age.

"Each of the Northern State clubs have their unique challenges/disadvantages. The player access package for the Gold Coast is just part of the picture.


"I believe that it is time for a detailed review of the Northern States business model – on-field and off-field. The ever-present player and coach go home factor is real and significant as are the unique financial pressures faced by clubs in the non-traditional football states.”


The Suns had asked for a salary cap allowance to help address their retention problem, but AFL boss Gillon McLachlan, has a strong view that salary caps should not be compromised.


AFL general counsel Andrew Dillon said a three-year assistance package was needed for a sustainable solution to the Gold Coast's challenges.


"It really gives them that ability now to draft two high-end players and give them that ability to build, but it was debated strongly," Dillon said.


Under the assistance deal, aimed at lifting the struggling club, the AFL will also allow the Suns to simply list their academy players without bidding. In effect, they can simply list the players from their academy zone without going through the draft. This means the likes of Connor Budarick – rated as prospective third-round pick this year – as well as talented bottom-ager Alex Davies (2020 draft) and under-16 All-Australian Austin Harris (2021) could also be added to the Suns' list without the club paying a price in the draft.


As part of the package, the Suns' academy zone now includes Darwin, which will allow Gold Coast to acquire NT prospect Malcolm Rosas this year.


The Suns will also get access to up to 10 rookies. The package is subject to review in years two and three.

[bornadog]

Nine years of early draft picks and they can't get it right

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Even then, their concessions were not as generous as those afforded to GWS. Among other factors, they didn't have the benefit of trading out mini draft selections. These yielded GWS an extra 5 first round picks over 2 years.

The concessions handed out to GWS has been far more generous than that afforded to GCS, with $80 million given to GWS in its first 2 years to establish a second Club in Sydney. Amazing to think that St Kilda has won one flag in over 100 years and the WB two only in 90 years and yet GWS has figured in the past 4 final series including this year’s GF.
The Gold Coast continues to be a basket case with quality players like Lynch and Prestia happy to move on after the mandatory two years. The AFL is happy for this fiasco to continue because it is happy to prop up GCS in order to protect its multi millions National Television Sponsorship. Sydney has a far greater attraction with the Sydney Swans now a strong well established Club and GWS being able to attract the likes of Ward Davis Shaw Mumford Deledio Griffen etc combined with the best young talent in the competition even though they continue to lose many of this young talent to strong Melbourne based Clubs to then be replaced by equally talented young players through draft concessions. Given the current hopeless arrangement you wouldn’t want your own son drafted to the Gold Coast Suns.

[AndrewP6]

The concessions handed out to GWS has been far more generous than that afforded to GCS, with $80 million given to GWS in its first 2 years to establish a second Club in Sydney. Amazing to think that St Kilda has won one flag in over 100 years and the WB two only in 90 years and yet GWS has figured in the past 4 final series including this year’s GF.
The Gold Coast continues to be a basket case with quality players like Lynch and Prestia happy to move on after the mandatory two years. The AFL is happy for this fiasco to continue because it is happy to prop up GCS in order to protect its multi millions National Television Sponsorship. Sydney has a far greater attraction with the Sydney Swans now a strong well established Club and GWS being able to attract the likes of Ward Davis Shaw Mumford Deledio Griffen etc combined with the best young talent in the competition even though they continue to lose many of this young talent to strong Melbourne based Clubs to then be replaced by equally talented young players through draft concessions. Given the current hopeless arrangement you wouldn’t want your own son drafted to the Gold Coast Suns.

I work with Mitch Riordan's mum. He is happy at the moment, wonder how long it will last?

[Doc26]

Given the current hopeless arrangement you wouldn’t want your own son drafted to the Gold Coast Suns.

I certainly wouldn’t be keen on that either.

[jeemak]

This is a post I posted in another thread.....

The silly thing is the AFEL didn't offer an incentive to assist GCS to the other clubs in any way as far as I can tell.

Seriously, if you want to get people on board you need to show what is in it for them. With this deal all there is as far as I can see if punishment for the mismanagement of a league created entity.

It's clear GCS needs experience in solid players, but they aren't going to get them unless they pay overs - which they can't do - or if they give up incentives to other clubs to hand them over, which they can if the AFEL was smart enough.

This is just another botched attempt from the AFEL to paper over the cracks that have been getting bigger and bigger since they rushed the implementation of this club into the competition. The truth is, they set up a façade of a club and didn't take care of anything across the back end, and now they're suffering for it. Setting up a club is a process, and anyone with any understanding of process knows that shit in equals shit out, especially when capacity is constrained (facilities, personnel, etc.). The thing about process is that quality inputs don't equal correct inputs (Ablett....etc.), the inputs need to be matched to the circumstances and right from the start the AFEL got it wrong with GCS.

Anyway, probably the wrong thread...…..

[jeemak]

Remember this is the same type of thing that happened with GWS but is a lite version of it.

The AFL complained that they couldn't control the GWS drafting and trading process and this resulted in a prolonged period of GWS being uncompetitive but always with a bright future ahead. In the end, GWS had a huge advantage to become competitive, and it's resulted in a grand final appearance after consistent finals showings.

They didn't do the same for GCS, and now it seems they're playing a similar card. Stuff the rest of the competition, do what you want and everyone else will pick up the tab.

[GVGjr]

I think the AFL's response to the GCS position is an admission of guilt and how poorly the club has been run.
It's also clear they aren't going to let it die or be uncompetitive going forward

It will be interesting to see if they can get their act in order

[Rocco Jones]

I would have moved them to Tassie (or just kill them off and start a team there) but failing that, kind of starting again is the only other option. I would have liked something a bit more geared to getting senior players but that's really hard and lends itself to being exploited by other clubs i.e. all but actively trying to get senior players to leave with compo being an actual reward.

I actually really like the link to Darwin and would like to see them becoming the North Australian Suns or the like.

This though, must be the final roll of the dice. If they still have players leaving in five years and are a mess, they need to go.

[GVGjr]

I know a lot of people keep mentioning Tasmania but unless they were successful I think they would also struggle with player retention as well which is the Suns main challenge

[Rocco Jones]

I know a lot of people keep mentioning Tasmania but unless they were successful I think they would also struggle with player retention as well which is the Suns main challenge

I agree. My point is more than 18th team is needed due to TV rights and Tassie beats GC, but you could randomly point to a place on the map and beat GC as a location for an AFL club.

[Bulldog Joe]

I think giving them unhindered access to NT is the real positive for them.

However, they need to manage the players and development professionally.

I also think the increased list helps, but they really need to be required to utilise the extra spots on mature agers.

[Twodogs]

I know a lot of people keep mentioning Tasmania but unless they were was successful I think they would also struggle with player retention as well which is the Suns main challenge

There are a lot more native born players then there are in the north of Australia though. Tassie is also a lot closer to Victoria too so players can see family more often.


It's easy to come up with millions of reasons not to do something but from what I can see we are pushing shit up a very steep hill trying even just to get a toehold on the Gold Coast while there are people pleading to have a team in Tassie. Let's secure the borders before we go trying to expand. In classic military terms we are separated too far from our supply lines and badly exposed to being out flanked.

[Happy Days]

I think giving them unhindered access to NT is the real positive for them.

However, they need to manage the players and development professionally.

I also think the increased list helps, but they really need to be required to utilise the extra spots on mature agers.

Agree with this. Giving them access to a large area with footy ties that is (very loosely and only by virtue of no one else being close) proximal is the sort of thing that can give the club the soul they are sorely missing.

[soupman]

There are a lot more native born players then there are in the north of Australia though.

There's like 5 players on the league from Tassie. Darwin might have more.

[Rocco Jones]

There's like 5 players on the league from Tassie. Darwin might have more.

25 Tasmanians in the AFL in 2019.

[soupman]

25 Tasmanians in the AFL in 2019.

Wow a lot more than I thought. There was definitely a drought recently so must have been some good development years of late.

[GVGjr]

I think giving them unhindered access to NT is the real positive for them.

However, they need to manage the players and development professionally.

I also think the increased list helps, but they really need to be required to utilise the extra spots on mature agers.

Fully agree, at least it's given them a 3 year horizon to establish the club properly

[GVGjr]

Generous? Yes. But the AFL had no choice with Suns
From Jake Niall

Some officials at rival clubs and certainly a significant portion of fans view the AFL's three-year handout package to the downtrodden Gold Coast Suns as an excessive form of welfare.

But the AFL really had no choice but to err on the side of generosity in gifting extra draft picks and other measures to a club that simply wasn't competitive in the second half of 2019, and which has an ongoing struggle to retain players despite clear improvements in the environment and welfare programs.

While other clubs will moan about the extent and nature of the handouts and compromises to the draft, the AFL could not afford to give the Suns a package that was light-on.

Better to give them too much in the way of assistance, rather than too little. If they came up short and the Suns flatlined again, the consequences would be severe for the AFL and the game, bearing in mind that this club has not succeeded for nine seasons and counting.

If this is perceived as a prop to a club that has scored own goals in the past, the rescue package is really a correction for the AFL's own blunders when the Suns were established, as the league – wrongly – assumed that the Suns would be an easier sell to players and staff than GWS, which was then based in the far west of Sydney.

The Suns entered the competition with insufficient people with experience in key roles and they did not receive the same recruiting concessions as the Giants, whose mature recruits – especially Phil Davis and Callan Ward – were inspired selections.

In their pitch, the Suns cleverly planted the idea with headquarters that if they were travelling better than expected then the AFL would have the option of reducing these concessions – removing picks next year or in 2021, or taking away the freebie deal on Gold Coast academy players (who can be just added to their list).

But let's face it, this is unlikely to happen.

Gold Coast also used the handouts given to the Swans in the '90s as a point of comparison for the AFL commission, while chief executive Mark Evans buttressed his arguments by showing the AFL how his old team, Hawthorn, had managed to stay thereabouts by trading and free agency, virtually without having any early draft picks over the past decade.

The Suns got most of what they sought: picks galore, free academy players, Darwin in their academy zone, extra spots for rookies - all of it over three years.

Where they failed in their lobbying was in getting a salary cap allowance, such as the cost of living allowance that Sydney and GWS lost post-Buddy Franklin, to assist with retention, easily their greatest issue.

Gillon McLachlan has an ideological view that clubs should operate on more or less the same salary cap. The league cites the Lions' rise up the ladder, with no salary cap advantage, as a case in point, and also argues that the extra money would be swallowed up without making a difference.

Only time will prove McLachlan and the league right on that score. I would have given the Suns a moderate allowance – less than the 10 per cent the Swans had – over that three year period, in view of the club's unique challenges.

It cannot have hurt the Suns that Richmond had gained both Tom Lynch and Dion Prestia and reached another grand final with three ex-Suns (Josh Caddy too), and that, as with Jaeger O'Meara, Steven May and Gary Ablett, the players that leave Gold Coast have been accepting less money than the Suns would have paid.

The most intriguing aspect of the hand out, though, is the while the Suns didn't formally ask for this, the AFL is really handing them access to two specific players, Carey Grammar school mates Noah Anderson and Matt Rowell, who – barring some mishap or unexpected trade – will be headed to the Suns as a tandem.

Clearly, the fact that these close friends could come, as a pair – as if they were boarding Noah's Ark – is supposed to improve the prospect of keeping them for long enough for Gold Coast to build a decent culture and team, in that order.

The AFL have given them a shot. Henceforth, it's up to the Suns.

[Hotdog60]

The AFL will try very hard make it work so they can beat their chest and succeed where other codes have failed.

[ratsmac]

Now that they have been given NT zone they should consider a name change like we did from Footscray to Western Bulldogs. The Northern Suns has a nice ring to it and it can help broaden their supporter base that way. They should also play at least 4 home games in the NT (in the middle of winter) like us in Ballarat, Hawks in Tas etc.

At the moment they are going nowhere fast even with the leg up they have received from the AFEL. They should be being more proactive in spreading their brand more and branding or aligning themselves with the NT as Happy Days said will help giving the club some soul it so desperately needs.

I still think they are dead in the water and the only way they will survive long term is relocating to a AFL football state.

[DOG GOD]

Surely this is the last ditch effort.

Yes they may get Anderson and Rowell for that 3 year period, but what if they lose King and Lukosis in the meantime?

I think they’re just treading water, and this 3 year concession is nothing more than a giant bandaid covering a gaping wound that can’t be stitched.

[GVGjr]

Surely this is the last ditch effort.

Yes they may get Anderson and Rowell for that 3 year period, but what if they lose King and Lukosis in the meantime?

I think they’re just treading water, and this 3 year concession is nothing more than a giant bandaid covering a gaping wound that can’t be stitched.

It's well worth it by the AFL though, a 17 team competition wouldn't be great

[Twodogs]

It's well worth it by the AFL though, a 17 team competition wouldn't be great

Does it necessarily have to be a 17 team comp if the Suns fall over? Surely the sensible decision in that case (The AFL finally getting it through their thick heads that the Gold Coast is a leisure/holiday area and that the people who live/holiday there aren't interested in watching sport.) is to move the Suns to Tassie.

I learned a long time ago that the only reason you bang your head against a brick wall is because it feels good when you stop. It's time for the AFL to stop banging their head against that brick wall. I understand that Gil is desperate to get his memorial project up so he can look like a genius (the man who finally managed to get a pro sporting team to prosper on the GC) but I'm not willing to stand by and watch him piss the goodwill and money the AFL has made up against a wall trying to prove how clever he is.

[GVGjr]

Does it necessarily have to be a 17 team comp if the Suns fall over? Surely the sensible decision in that case (The AFL finally getting it through their thick heads that the Gold Coast is a leisure/holiday area and that the people who live/holiday there aren't interested in watching sport.

Move the Suns to Tassie. I learned a long time ago that the only reason you bang your head against a brick wall is because it feels good when you stop. It's time for the AFL to stop banging their head against that brick wall. I understand that Gil is desperate to get his memorial project up so he can look like a genius (the man who finally managed to get a pro sporting team to prosper on the GC) but I'm not willing to stand by and watch him piss the goodwill and money the AFL has made up against a wall trying to prove how clever he is.

I keep hearing Tasmania as the alternate but would they still be plagued with challenges of player retention which is the Suns biggest challenge? Well that and some appalling administrative decisions that include a list manager who was making poor decisions and a fly in and fly out coach

If Brisbane can be turned around the Suns at least have a chance. I think having a team in Tassie would be OK but it's nowhere near a sure thing to be successful.

[Twodogs]

I keep hearing Tasmania as the alternate but would they still be plagued with challenges of player retention which is the Suns biggest challenge? Well that and some appalling administrative decisions that include a list manager who was making poor decisions and a fly in and fly out coach

If Brisbane can be turned around the Suns at least have a chance. I think having a team in Tassie would be OK but it's nowhere near a sure thing to be successful.


Yeah I don't get how they thought Rocket flying in a couple of times a week to take training and perform the rest of his coaching duties was ever going to work.

The thing with Tassie though is it's still close enough to Melbourne/Victoria to make it just feasible enough (in the case of a Melbourne boy) to access family and the grandparent baby minding service (and believe me when that bub drops you are going to want your own parents close to hand-despite what they say child rearing is not something you want to do without your mum and dad close by)

I think that a team in Tassie would have far less problems with player retention than a team in Queensland. I have always thought that we got the expansion thing arse about in that we should have expanded into Tassie first, ratcheted ourselves into the local scene and then set foot into northern NSW/southern Queensland.

[Hotdog60]

Tasmanian footy needs a boost their local competition from what I read is struggling and may be a pathway to a local AFL side would boost the ground below it.
A lot of talent has come out of Tassie and if the whole of Tasmania was their Academy they should see growth across the board.
I actually think that North Melbourne should relocate and become the Tassie kangaroos and take some load of Victoria.
But that doesn't help the Suns unless two teams go the Tassie and that would help the Hobart, Launceston feud as they could have a team each.

[bornadog]

Tasmanian footy needs a boost their local competition from what I read is struggling and may be a pathway to a local AFL side would boost the ground below it.
A lot of talent has come out of Tassie and if the whole of Tasmania was their Academy they should see growth across the board.
I actually think that North Melbourne should relocate and become the Tassie kangaroos and take some load of Victoria.
But that doesn't help the Suns unless two teams go the Tassie and that would help the Hobart, Launceston feud as they could have a team each.

Two teams in Tassie wouldn't work, the state isn't big enough.

Teams have to generate turnover of over $50 million now to be viable, which is a tough ask.

[GVGjr]

The thing with Tassie though is it's still close enough to Melbourne/Victoria to make it just feasible enough (in the case of a Melbourne boy) to access family and the grandparent baby minding service (and believe me when that bub drops you are going to want your own parents close to hand-despite what they say child rearing is not something you want to do without your mum and dad close by)

I think that a team in Tassie would have far less problems with player retention than a team in Queensland. I have always thought that we got the expansion thing arse about in that we should have expanded into Tassie first, ratcheted ourselves into the local scene and then set foot into northern NSW/southern Queensland.

So if the Gold Coast with their great weather and beaches can't keep young players there why would you be confident that Hobart or Launceston could?
There are some challenges of having a team in Tassie that include the North South divide and the fact that the drive is quite a long one between the two biggest centres

On field success is they key for the Suns. Brisbane won't have problems with player retention while they are successful

[mjp]

So if the Gold Coast with their great weather and beaches can't keep young players there why would you be confident that Hobart or Launceston could?


I am confident that the Gold Coast, Hobart and Launceston would all be able to retain their players if they choose the RIGHT players.

This is why giving up pick 2 for Lachie Weller was a GOOD IDEA. He wants to be there. What did they give up? An underperforming malcontent (Matera) and a pick used for Brayshaw who really hasn't shown much of anything...an average mid in every way. Add to the 'Weller' formulae the examples of players such as David Swallow - there is something in his makeup that has kept him at the club...the big ruckman (Witts) likewise. Miller likewise. Harbrow...

There are players who clearly WANT to form part of the fabric of a club based on the Gold Coast...or maybe they are just loyal personalities who would be one club players if drafted to Uzbekistan. Find those players.

The Giants talk about how Craig Lambert was a key to making things work in Parramatta. He is in footy purgatory at the moment post Whitfield drugs cheating saga...GIVE HIM A JOB.

Honestly, this stuff isn't rocket science.

[GVGjr]

I am confident that the Gold Coast, Hobart and Launceston would all be able to retain their players if they choose the RIGHT players.

This is why giving up pick 2 for Lachie Weller was a GOOD IDEA. He wants to be there. What did they give up? An underperforming malcontent (Matera) and a pick used for Brayshaw who really hasn't shown much of anything...an average mid in every way. Add to the 'Weller' formulae the examples of players such as David Swallow - there is something in his makeup that has kept him at the club...the big ruckman (Witts) likewise. Miller likewise. Harbrow...

There are players who clearly WANT to form part of the fabric of a club based on the Gold Coast...or maybe they are just loyal personalities who would be one club players if drafted to Uzbekistan. Find those players.

The Giants talk about how Craig Lambert was a key to making things work in Parramatta. He is in footy purgatory at the moment post Whitfield drugs cheating saga...GIVE HIM A JOB.

Honestly, this stuff isn't rocket science.

I agree it isn't Rocket Science, putting a good coach and coaching resources in place, having a good list and recruiting manager in place and making sound and realistic decisions on they players they bring in is all basic stuff

Regarding Lambert, he thoroughly deserved his stint in purgatory but it's time the Suns had a look at bringing him and his wife into the club.

[hujsh]

Gold Coast now taking Melbourne's Darwin games for the next 4 seasons. Which makes more objective sense.

[bulldogtragic]

Gold Coast now taking Melbourne's Darwin games for the next 4 seasons. Which makes more objective sense.

They'll take the Alice games soon too. With Cairns games, the partnership with the NT government and the Darwin NGA, they'll be the Northern Australia Suns soon enough.

[Twodogs]

Gold Coast now taking Melbourne's Darwin games for the next 4 seasons. Which makes more objective sense.


They'll take the Alice games soon too. With Cairns games, the partnership with the NT government and the Darwin NGA, they'll be the Northern Australia Suns soon enough.

Tjhat makes 100% more sense than the Gold Coast Suns. I'd happily support that.

[strebla]

Tjhat makes 100% more sense than the Gold Coast Suns. I'd happily support that.

Wash your mouth out Two dogs a real Westin could never support a non western suburbs team !!!

[Twodogs]

Wash your mouth out Two dogs a real Westin could never support a non western suburbs team !!!

They have been my second team since Rocket was there. I've never had a second team before.

[Bulldog Joe]

They have been my second team since Rocket was there. I've never had a second team before.

Always easy to have a second team, that is no real threat.

[Twodogs]

Always easy to have a second team, that is no real threat.

I thought that I might be getting a half decent team to barrack for in September!


Heh! Silly Twodogs!!!!

[strebla]

They have been my second team since Rocket was there. I've never had a second team before.

As much as I'm a rocket fan it could never sway me. I did however watch 5 Fitzroy home game when a certain Braybrook boy played a year there !!!!

[Twodogs]

As much as I'm a rocket fan it could never sway me. I did however watch 5 Fitzroy home game when a certain Braybrook boy played a year there !!!!

They were playing their games at Whitten oval at that stage too. I can remember sitting in the front room at my friends house in Adelaide st West Footscray watching a Fitzroy Sydney game. Plugger kicked a few in the first quarter so we wandered over the road to watch the show. He got 16 despite sitting on the bench for a while.

[strebla]

That was one of the games I watched in another he kicked a bag of 5 in my memory serves me correctly

[Twodogs]

That was one of the games I watched in another he kicked a bag of 5 in my memory serves me correctly

Yeah it wasn't bad wandering down and sneaking into the ground, especially when you knew where to get in for free.

[strebla]

How do you think I bacame a Bulldogs supporter in the first place !!!!

[Bulldog Joe]

I thought that I might be getting a half decent team to barrack for in September!


Heh! Silly Twodogs!!!!

I would suggest you now have a better than half decent team to barrack for in September (and for a few years) that does not require you to consider any heresy like a second team.

[Twodogs]

I would suggest you now have a better than half decent team to barrack for in September (and for a few years) that does not require you to consider any heresy like a second team.

Yep, that was then and this is now! And I couldn't be any happier.

[GVGjr]

Huge signing by the Suns today, Jack Lukosius signing on with the Suns today is another positive step forward

[divvydan]

That's massive for them. All 3 top end kids from last year have extended their contracts for at least the next few years.

[GVGjr]

That's massive for them. All 3 top end kids from last year have extended their contracts for at least the next few years.

They need to get Jez McLennan over the line now and that will top things off nicely for them
If they then bring and Rowell and Anderson and they sign extensions the Suns will be putting some solid building blocks in place

[westdog54]

Huge signing by the Suns today, Jack Lukosius signing on with the Suns today is another positive step forward

Great result. Three solid years of three lots of top 10 picks playing together will be a massive shot in the arm for them.

[GVGjr]

I know it was just a Marsh series game and young teams will tend to fizzle out later in the year but there was some strong performances last night against Geelong which should be a positive for the Suns.
Rowell looks to be a natural at the senior level

[Go_Dogs]

They suddenly have some depth in their midfield and the stronger bodies of Ellis, Greenwood will make them a better contested side immediately. They should win more games than they did last year but it’s a 3 year curve for them with their top midfield talent still young and key position players not yet consistent performers.

Good they had a win.

[soupman]

Gold Coast are weird in that they are always decent for the first say 6 rounds of the year then fall off a cliff.

This win is a good sign but they did similiar in the past, and the question will be about sustaining good performances instead of a hand full at the start of the year.

we play them round 8 btw, so should be clear.

[GVGjr]

Gold Coast are weird in that they are always decent for the first say 6 rounds of the year then fall off a cliff.

This win is a good sign but they did similiar in the past, and the question will be about sustaining good performances instead of a hand full at the start of the year.

we play them round 8 btw, so should be clear.

Spot on, they've typicially come out hard early in the season with some good performances and then fizzled out later.
Very likely to do it again but they now have a better mix of experienced players to go with their younger talented group.

[ratsmac]

I know it was just a Marsh series game and young teams will tend to fizzle out later in the year but there was some strong performances last night against Geelong which should be a positive for the Suns.
Rowell looks to be a natural at the senior level

I'm hoping that it's more that Geelong are falling behind the reigning wooden spooners

[ledge]

Geelong started to drop off last year just by ageing list, they have decided to keep them players for another year, it’s going to be a dramatic fall this year I predict.

[Testekill]

Suns probably have a few more years of pain but they'll be golden when Rowell and Anderson are ready

[Twodogs]

Geelong started to drop off last year just by ageing list, they have decided to keep them players for another year, it’s going to be a dramatic fall this year I predict.

I agree ledge. They have a big implosion coming up same as Hawthorn.

[GVGjr]

Suns probably have a few more years of pain but they'll be golden when Rowell and Anderson are ready

It might happen quicker than expected as they have some seriously talented players at their disposal

Jack Bowes, Will Brodie, Brayden Fiorini, Ben Ainsworth, Touk Miller, Noah Anderson, Hugh Greenwood, Darcy MacPherson Matt Rowell, Sam Flanders, and David Swallow has an excellent depth and is versatile midfield
Jack Lukosius, Izak Rankine, Ben King and Peter Wright gives them plenty of options up forward and Jarrod Witts is a better than decent ruckman

From a playing perspective they have a list to make an impact.

[Mofra]

Fair effort to put in that performance without their best performed player of the past couple of years (Witts).

If Griffen stayed and we took Wright at the draft with pick 6 he'd be the most frustrating player to have ever pulled on the tri-colours. Slow and lumbering one minute and dropping a sitter, the next minute he takes a huge pack mark or crushes 4 opponents in one attempt leaving the rest of the forwards to kick an easy goal.

Darcy McPherson reminds me a lot of Dahlhaus - scrappy and can make mistakes but always dangerous. Good luck to the kid.
I still love Alex Sexton as a player, if he played in Victoria he'd get a lot more attention.

[The Underdog]

Fair effort to put in that performance without their best performed player of the past couple of years (Witts).

If Griffen stayed and we took Wright at the draft with pick 6 he'd be the most frustrating player to have ever pulled on the tri-colours. Slow and lumbering one minute and dropping a sitter, the next minute he takes a huge pack mark or crushes 4 opponents in one attempt leaving the rest of the forwards to kick an easy goal.

Darcy McPherson reminds me a lot of Dahlhaus - scrappy and can make mistakes but always dangerous. Good luck to the kid.
I still love Alex Sexton as a player, if he played in Victoria he'd get a lot more attention.

Wright had a set shot from 65 and easily made the distance. The man on the mark was inside the centre square!!!
He has such an intriguing skill set and has never come close to consistently putting it together.

[comrade]

Darcy McPherson reminds me a lot of Dahlhaus - scrappy and can make mistakes but always dangerous. Good luck to the kid.
I still love Alex Sexton as a player, if he played in Victoria he'd get a lot more attention.

We definitely made a blue in hindsight backing the likes of Honeychurch & Hrovat, rather than taking a flier on McPherson as a freebie.

[Twodogs]

We definitely made a blue in hindsight backing the likes of Honeychurch & Hrovat, rather than taking a flier on McPherson as a freebie.

Yeah we kind of outsmarted ourselves with him didn't we?

Good luck to the kid though. I still love the story that when one of his coaches told him that he was F/S eligible the first thing he said was "Did dad play footy? Who with?"

Mate if I was Super MacPherson I'd be singing about my footy career from the rooftops. It's the first thing I'd say when I met someone new! "I wore number 27"

[macca]

Yeah we kind of outsmarted ourselves with him didn't we?

Good luck to the kid though. I still love the story that when one of his coaches told him that he was F/S eligible the first thing he said was "Did dad play footy? Who with?"

Mate if I was Super MacPherson I'd be singing about my footy career from the rooftops. It's the first thing I'd say when I met someone new! "I wore number 27"
I’m happy for him . His done the hard yards and come through as rookie , persevered with the suns lack of success... maybe it gave him more oppportunties . Eade smartly picked him
His improved every year and become better even after having a serious injury

Can’t believe we didn’t pick him up as a rookie ... sigh... And he has excellent footy Pedigree !

[GVGjr]

I know it's very early in the a disjointed season but are the Suns an improving team or just one that always starts the season well before fading?

I'm still of the belief they are worth sticking with

[Rocket Science]

Irrepressible half of footy from the Suns but the Crows are so woeful they might get the coach sacked in his rookie season.

[The Underdog]

I know it's very early in the a disjointed season but are the Suns an improving team or just one that always starts the season well before fading?

I'm still of the belief they are worth sticking with

There’s a heap of talent there, they need to hold onto it while it matures.
They can engrave Rowell’s name on the Rising Star now. He looks absolutely special. Shorter season means less time to fade out, but the way they’re playing is better than the way they were winning games early last year.

[Grantysghost]

Really like Ainsworth be a lovely fit in the red white and blue.

[The Underdog]

Might put $20 on Rowell for the Brownlow.

[ledge]

Tex is the exact mirror of the Crows , old slow and way past it.
Keath a massive loss as far as any backline solidarity is concerned.
Side note:If Ellis isn’t getting any royalties for being copied as Cornholio he should be.

[ledge]

Has deliberate rushed behind gone out of the book ? Twice I’ve seen it this year and no free kick.

[bornadog]

How are the Foxfooty commentators talking finals footy for GC - 3 games in. FMD let's see what happens in the next ten games

[GVGjr]

How are the Foxfooty commentators talking finals footy for GC - 3 games in. FMD let's see what happens in the next ten games

I suspect there is a part of their position as Fox employees that has to talk up the game, most of them aren't worth listening to

[soupman]

How are the Foxfooty commentators talking finals footy for GC - 3 games in. FMD let's see what happens in the next ten games

Well two very impressive performances when most of the rest of the competition has looked mediocre to shithouse probably has something to do with that. A bit of justified optimism about Gold Coast would be great and somewhat validate them as a club which would be a nice change from the repetitive moaning about how they don't deserve to be in the comp.

[Bulldog Joe]

Well two very impressive performances when most of the rest of the competition has looked mediocre to shithouse probably has something to do with that. A bit of justified optimism about Gold Coast would be great and somewhat validate them as a club which would be a nice change from the repetitive moaning about how they don't deserve to be in the comp.

They are certainly playing well and I would like to see them make a final. It would be fantastic if they could win won before Essendon get a finals win.

[jeemak]

Well two very impressive performances when most of the rest of the competition has looked mediocre to shithouse probably has something to do with that. A bit of justified optimism about Gold Coast would be great and somewhat validate them as a club which would be a nice change from the repetitive moaning about how they don't deserve to be in the comp.

It'd be nice if it actually meant something thereafter, given they've done this before and delivered little in the past.

I actually want both GCS and GWS in the competition, and I also want an additional team from Tassie and one from at least another place in the country as we can then play each team once a year and flip grounds the following year whilst having a credible competition.

Imagine how amazing an even draw would be.

[soupman]

It'd be nice if it actually meant something thereafter, given they've done this before and delivered little in the past.

I actually want both GCS and GWS in the competition, and I also want an additional team from Tassie and one from at least another place in the country as we can then play each team once a year and flip grounds the following year whilst having a credible competition.

Imagine how amazing an even draw would be.

The AFL would for sure have some kind of convoluted wildcard round or rivalry round which would ruin it.

[Mitcha]

Wouldn't it be fantastic if Gold Coast won a premiership before the Great Waste of Space from Western Sydney?
(Assuming we don't win it that particular year)!!!

[Happy Days]

They have for sure looked impressive, but it's kind of going unsaid that they're playing with a really significant advantage over their opposition at the moment, and they also kinda do this every year.

Anyway, in other "Spiderman pointing at Spiderman" news:

EDIT - pictures aren't posting as usual (probably user error) but Buckley has definitely taken notice of Rowell.

[Twodogs]

They have looked good but I am waiting to see how they go against some quality opposition away from Carrara. Having sdaid that thy can only beat the opposition they are drawn to play against.

[Mofra]

How are the Foxfooty commentators talking finals footy for GC - 3 games in. FMD let's see what happens in the next ten games
2 games and healthy percentage is a decent head start.

In the past they have started seasons well but had no depth so 3-4 injuries killed them. They probably bat a little deeper this year - CEY went there too for inside grunt so they can actually cover midfield injuries now.

Don't forget Rory Thompson is due back in a few weeks which gives them KPP depth too, and 2MP didn't play either. I still think Harbrow is a really important part of their line up as someone who can actually run the ball from defence.

[Sedat]

Shorter quarters and getting to stay home in the SE Qld hub has been very beneficial for the Suns. They held their own in many quarters and games last season but got killed in red time - the shorter quarters are right up their alley with still such a young list.

[Remi Moses]

They’re coming big time
I thought 12 months ago they could win one before the plastics
Gotta say 19 losses in a row had second thoughts, but the plastics might be done

[Vred]

I actually want both GCS and GWS in the competition, and I also want an additional team from Tassie and one from at least another place in the country as we can then play each team once a year and flip grounds the following year whilst having a credible competition.

I'm with you. I want the game to keep growing and more teams added to the comp, a Tassie team and a NT team for sure, eventually adding two teams from NZ to the comp would be nice as well, I know Rugby is the 'big game' over there but they have a love for AFL with their local leagues boasting a large amount of players.

I want GC to do well, they're fast becoming my number 2 team to watch and go for, hopefully they snag a finals win before Essendon and the Plastics again.

[Dry Rot]

Interesting analysis here

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-02/the-gold-coast-suns-rise-in-2020-but-is-it-a-false-dawn/12409144

[bornadog]

Interesting analysis here

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-02/the-gold-coast-suns-rise-in-2020-but-is-it-a-false-dawn/12409144

Thanks for posting, a very enjoyable read. Now lets see how far they can go.

[Happy Days]

Thanks for posting, a very enjoyable read. Now lets see how far they can go.

The ABC have been randomly bringing it with their footy writing recently. Read a great piece on the Crows' downfall there last week too. I don't think I'd ever even seen a extended piece of footy writing on there before then.

[bornadog]

The ABC have been randomly bringing it with their footy writing recently. Read a great piece on the Crows' downfall there last week too. I don't think I'd ever even seen a extended piece of footy writing on there before then.

I didn't realise they write such readable articles. The analysis is great, something lacking in the HUN and The Age and other media.

[Dry Rot]

Read a great piece on the Crows' downfall there last week too.

Link?

[Happy Days]

Link?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-25/how-adelaide-crows-went-from-afl-top-to-bottom-in-three-years/12387620

[jeemak]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-25/how-adelaide-crows-went-from-afl-top-to-bottom-in-three-years/12387620

Good read.

Interesting look at the win and draw one on one defending and intercept marking combined plot, showing Roughead worse than Cordy in that stat.

Alex Keath rated highly demonstrating an ability to do both as required.

[Twodogs]

Good read.

Interesting look at the win and draw one on one defending and intercept marking combined plot, showing Roughead worse than Cordy in that stat.

Alex Keath rated highly demonstrating an ability to do both as required.

So Roughie gets to more contests but Zaine wins more? Is that how it reads?

[hujsh]

Good read.

Interesting look at the win and draw one on one defending and intercept marking combined plot, showing Roughead worse than Cordy in that stat.

Alex Keath rated highly demonstrating an ability to do both as required.

I think you got that backwards. Correct me if I'm wrong but Roughead is higher on the plot meaning he win or draws a higher number of contests and slightly further left of Cordy meaning he gets less intercept possessions/spoils (minor amount)

[bornadog]

The Suns are a rabble and are currently over 100 points down after kicking 2 points since quarter time.

Let's face it, this is not good for footy to have such an uncompetitive team, even though they have been given the cream of the crop over the past ten years.

AFL, time to rethink the whole experiment.

[bulldogtragic]

Last 6 Quarters of AFEL Footy:

For: 39 Points
Against: 215 Points


Wow!!

[comrade]

Last 6 Quarters of AFEL Footy:

For: 39 Points
Against: 215 Points


Wow!!

I missed the first 3 quarters but I assume it was an atrocity. Why'd they have to turn their toes up against the Demons of all sides?

[divvydan]

Funny thing was, their first quarter was, for the most part, really competitive and their tackling was giving them a real chance. The last few minutes of that first quarter were a warning sign and they never showed up again after that.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I saw at one point the inside 50s were something like 60-15.

[GVGjr]

A weeks a long time in footy, solid win by the Suns

[GVGjr]

They've been quite impressive this year and have now signed up Stuart Dew for 2 more seasons

THE SHADOW over Stuart Dew's future has been lifted, with the Gold Coast coach inking a new two-year contract that keeps him at the Suns until at least the end of 2024.

Dew has been at the centre of speculation surrounding his job since late last year, but the club has seen enough to rubber-stamp him as its main man.

Speaking exclusively to AFL.com.au, Dew said he kept things simple as scrutiny over his position swirled, and the spectre of Alastair Clarkson loomed.

"It sounds pretty boring, but I've asked myself 'what am I here to do and what do people need from me?' and I've tried to deliver that," Dew said.

[MrMahatma]

Credit to Dew. Quite often when the media speculation starts, the coach can lose the team or the plot - or both. He's on 360 a fair bit and has been pretty laid back, even joking about his situation and Clarko being available a few times, and I guess it's that kind of personality/confidence/attitude that (hopefully) Suns players like. If he can keep the squad together they'll be formidable next year with King back and another year into some of those kids. If they can get another trade period where they land quality like Chol and Casbolt for very little, then all the better.

I like Dew. I want the Suns to do well and for footy to really take a bigger foothold here in QLD.

As an aside, my brother went to GWS v Hawks on Sunday. It was wet, very wet, and there were only 4,812 people there. Success in these non-footy states is so important for crowds to come. They don't have the die hard fans yet. That'll take 20 years. It's not inconceivable that if GWS have a couple of down years, all the questions being asked about Suns viability will be more squarely focussed on GWS.

[Bulldog4life]

Credit to Dew. Quite often when the media speculation starts, the coach can lose the team or the plot - or both. He's on 360 a fair bit and has been pretty laid back, even joking about his situation and Clarko being available a few times, and I guess it's that kind of personality/confidence/attitude that (hopefully) Suns players like. If he can keep the squad together they'll be formidable next year with King back and another year into some of those kids. If they can get another trade period where they land quality like Chol and Casbolt for very little, then all the better.

I like Dew. I want the Suns to do well and for footy to really take a bigger foothold here in QLD.

As an aside, my brother went to GWS v Hawks on Sunday. It was wet, very wet, and there were only 4,812 people there. Success in these non-footy states is so important for crowds to come. They don't have the die hard fans yet. That'll take 20 years. It's not inconceivable that if GWS have a couple of down years, all the questions being asked about Suns viability will be more squarely focussed on GWS.

Unlike our coach.

[bornadog]

GC have filled there last list spot with Brodie McLaughlin from Frankston VFL

[bornadog]

Tony Cochrane stepping down as Chair at GC

[GVGjr]

Tony Cochrane stepping down as Chair at GC

Bloody hard job and all things considered he's done his best.