Do we have a goal kicking coach?

[Dry Rot]

Saints just got one

Ex-Hawk gets to work fixing Saints' goalkicking

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-12-10/exhawk-gets-to-work-fixing-saints-goalkicking

Do we have one?

[Greystache]

I doubt it. I was told our view is it will take care of itself as the players get older. This was 2 years ago and we were about 10th for accuracy at the time. We're dead last now and getting worse.

[MrMahatma]

Makes sense that the sport will continue to get specialist coaches for every part of the game.

We should get one.

[Twodogs]

Saints just got one

Ex-Hawk gets to work fixing Saints' goalkicking

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-12-10/exhawk-gets-to-work-fixing-saints-goalkicking

Do we have one?

Good question. We don't have a specialist goalkicking coach and haven't had for a while. i guess the role falls under the purview of the forward line coach.


I doubt it. I was told our view is it will take care of itself as the players get older. This was 2 years ago and we were about 10th for accuracy at the time. We're dead last now and getting worse.

How does that even work? They learn by their errors in kicking for goal? They quite obviously aren't in fact we are getting worse as you pointed out.

[ledge]

Won a flag without one

[GVGjr]

We have needed to improve our kicking for a long while now in fact it was one of Bevo's primary focus when he arrived at the club. I don't believe it's a huge priority for our recruitment process so we need to employ some specialist coaching resources.
It's interesting to me that we introduced a handball club but I don't think we have for our kicking. Right across the park we need to improve and especially our set shot goal kicking routines.

[Twodogs]

Won a flag without one


I'd say despite not having one. We found a way around it and had our best goalkicking performance for the year (7.1) in the first half of the grand final.

[boydogs]

I'd say despite not having one. We found a way around it and had our best goalkicking performance for the year (7.1) in the first half of the grand final.

It's partly related to our lack of permanent forwards, which helps us in the midfield. To fix the goalkicking, throw 6 Tory Dickson's in the side but then the midfield would suffer and he wouldn't get it kicked to him

[Twodogs]

It's partly related to our lack of permanent forwards, which helps us in the midfield. To fix the goalkicking, throw 6 Tory Dickson's in the side but then the midfield would suffer and he wouldn't get it kicked to him

My main frustration is with the player's individual goalkicking techniques. They are uniformly lousy but could be much improved with some really basic tuition. Some of the things some do as they are taking shots for goal are basic rookie errors but basic rookie errors they have been committing for years now.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

My main frustration is with the player's individual goalkicking techniques. They are uniformly lousy but could be much improved with some really basic tuition. Some of the things some do as they are taking shots for goal are basic rookie errors but basic rookie errors they have been committing for years now.
Extremely frustrating because goal kicking techniques is very teachable. I personally taught Simon Beasley (well I sent him a hand written letter welcoming him to the club and telling him to pretend he was at training when he lined up) and he went on to be one of the all time accurate kicks for goal, despite having some early nerves.
Seriously goal kicking is teachable and I can't believe we don't have a coach. Dickson, the Bont, Redders and I suspect Schachse don't need it but the rest make me weep. We won the premiership from weight of forward entries, are still good at this yet so inefficient at finishing.
One tip is to look at the right post and plan to miss it to the left, then look at the left post and plan to miss it to the right. You then get a better, more specific sense of the space than just aiming at the middle.

[hujsh]

Extremely frustrating because goal kicking techniques is very teachable. I personally taught Simon Beasley (well I sent him a hand written letter welcoming him to the club and telling him to pretend he was at training when he lined up) and he went on to be one of the all time accurate kicks for goal, despite having some early nerves.
Seriously goal kicking is teachable and I can't believe we don't have a coach. Dickson, the Bont, Redders and I suspect Schachse don't need it but the rest make me weep. We won the premiership from weight of forward entries, are still good at this yet so inefficient at finishing.
One tip is to look at the right post and plan to miss it to the left, then look at the left post and plan to miss it to the right. You then get a better, more specific sense of the space than just aiming at the middle.

Oh yes he does. He was horrid this year in that aspect of his game

[Twodogs]

Extremely frustrating because goal kicking techniques is very teachable. I personally taught Simon Beasley (well I sent him a hand written letter welcoming him to the club and telling him to pretend he was at training when he lined up) and he went on to be one of the all time accurate kicks for goal, despite having some early nerves.
Seriously goal kicking is teachable and I can't believe we don't have a coach. Dickson, the Bont, Redders and I suspect Schachse don't need it but the rest make me weep. We won the premiership from weight of forward entries, are still good at this yet so inefficient at finishing.
One tip is to look at the right post and plan to miss it to the left, then look at the left post and plan to miss it to the right. You then get a better, more specific sense of the space than just aiming at the middle.

I find its better just to keep your head over the ball past the moment it impacts with your boot-much like driving a golf ball-sometimes I just can't watch when a player runs in with head in the air staring intently at the goals.

Goalkicking is remarkably simple. All you have to have to remember are four things. 1. Walk to the top of your mark and take a deep breath 2. run in in a straight line 3. stand upright and keep your head over the ball as you kick it 4. drop the ball on your foot don't guide it.

[merantau]

A goal is worth 6 times more than a behind. A goal kicking/kicking coach seems a no-brainer to me. Think about it. 12 .8 - 80 is 60% accuracy from 20 shots. Theoretically your opponents could kick 0.20 - 20 is zero accuracy and a 60 point loss! But let's be more charitable. 8.12 .60 is 40% accuracy and a comfortable win for the victors. It's not always the best team that wins; in a close game, it's more often than not, the most accurate team that wins.

[ratsmac]

We are the team who out of all the teams are desperately in need of a kicking coach. Had we kicked more accurate we would of made finals this year and gave ourselves a chance of defending the premiership. It's criminal that we don't have a designated kicking coach. I really hope we are in the market for one.

[merantau]

Thinking about it missing set shots is a bit like dropping catches in cricket. I wonder how many matches have been lost due to dropped catches. I would suggest PLENTY!

[BornInDroopSt'54]

The gap between the goals is very generous. If we, the Western Bulldogs make a science of it, we will maximise the purpose of our efforts and supercharge our thrust at another premiership. Goalkicking science is the next frontier.

[Greystache]

Extremely frustrating because goal kicking techniques is very teachable. I personally taught Simon Beasley (well I sent him a hand written letter welcoming him to the club and telling him to pretend he was at training when he lined up) and he went on to be one of the all time accurate kicks for goal, despite having some early nerves.
Seriously goal kicking is teachable and I can't believe we don't have a coach. Dickson, the Bont, Redders and I suspect Schachse don't need it but the rest make me weep. We won the premiership from weight of forward entries, are still good at this yet so inefficient at finishing.
One tip is to look at the right post and plan to miss it to the left, then look at the left post and plan to miss it to the right. You then get a better, more specific sense of the space than just aiming at the middle.

Bont would've been lucky to hit water from a boat last season. 20.29 and probably a dozen out on the full. Nearly always missing far far left. His goal kicking has gone backwards dramatically since being at the club.

Redpath kicked 15.13 and missed a heap of easy set shots. His goal kicking has gone backwards in his time at the club.

Schache has kicked 25.24 in his career to date. Who knows where he'll be after a couple of years of the she'll be right approach to goal kicking.

[Twodogs]

Bont would've been lucky to hit water from a boat last season. 20.29 and probably a dozen out on the full. Nearly always missing far far left. His goal kicking has gone backwards dramatically since being at the club.

Redpath kicked 15.13 and missed a heap of easy set shots. His goal kicking has gone backwards in his time at the club.

Schache has kicked 25.24 in his career to date. Who knows where he'll be after a couple of years of the she'll be right approach to goal kicking.

Add to that fact we play most of our footy indoors and out of the wind and elements. There really is no excuse, either we want to give ourselves the best chance to win football matches or we are wasting our time. After all what's the point of doing the difficult bit of creating scoring chances if we aren't capable of doing the simple bit of the equation and convert them?

From memory Norm Ware kicked 4.14 in a final in the 1940s. Spraying the ball all over the shop is obviously a proud club tradition.

[ledge]

Add to that fact we play most of our footy indoors and out of the wind and elements. There really is no excuse, either we want to give ourselves the best chance to win football matches or we are wasting our time. After all what's the point of doing the difficult bit of creating scoring chances if we aren't capable of doing the simple bit of the equation and convert them?

Maybe it's because we practice at the whitten oval, famous for it's cyclonic winds and when we get to Etihad we allow for it ;-)

[soupman]

I think the coaching staff are the only ones that think goalkicking isn't a problem for us. It is by far our biggest weakness. Really hope that we make a move to address this issue.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Bont would've been lucky to hit water from a boat last season. 20.29 and probably a dozen out on the full. Nearly always missing far far left. His goal kicking has gone backwards dramatically since being at the club.

Redpath kicked 15.13 and missed a heap of easy set shots. His goal kicking has gone backwards in his time at the club.

Schache has kicked 25.24 in his career to date. Who knows where he'll be after a couple of years of the she'll be right approach to goal kicking.

Frightening stat's considering what good techniques they have. The gap between their ears must be bigger than the gap between the goals.

[Twodogs]

Maybe it's because we practice at the whitten oval, famous for it's cyclonic winds and when we get to Etihad we allow for it ;-)

That's not a bad point actually. The difference between the conditions we practice in are poles apart from the conditions we usually play in.

[jeemak]

Indoor and outdoor, the fundamentals of kicking where you want the ball to go are the same. A bit like a golf swing, if the technique is bad it's more likely to come unstuck in the elements.

[Twodogs]

Indoor and outdoor, the fundamentals of kicking where you want the ball to go are the same. A bit like a golf swing, if the technique is bad it's more likely to come unstuck in the elements.


Exactly. If you don't have a technique to fall back on when you are working through a slump then you are in trouble. Your technique sees you through.

[josie]

Yep-we are appalling in front of goals. Surely Bevo knows this and is simply not trying to make a big thing of it to media.

Let’s start a woof petition for a goal kicking coach......

[bornadog]

Indoor and outdoor, the fundamentals of kicking where you want the ball to go are the same. A bit like a golf swing, if the technique is bad it's more likely to come unstuck in the elements.

Somehow I still think the ball travels differently under the roof. Sometimes it looks like it is just floating around.

[Eastdog]

It is an area that needs addressing. We won the flag in 2016 but that bucked the trend in that a lot of premiership sides are very attacking orientated. Team defence and our ability to lock the ball inside 50 were huge in our premiership success. We need to improve it because the next time we make a grand final it might be a different game where kicking a lot of goals over 100 points is required and missing set shots will be very bad in that case. Our game against GWS this year in Canberra is a game we should have won. 9.19 very poor.

[LostDoggy]

A few people from the club have stated we are specificly addressing goalkicking this offseason. I remember reading Josh Dunkley stating he and a few others were working on it and, as reported by smads57 in another thread, Bubba Smith recently also noted it as a specific area being worked upon. Let's hope these efforts bear fruit.

[Eastdog]

A few people from the club have stated we are specificly addressing goalkicking this offseason. I remember reading Josh Dunkley stating he and a few others were working on it and, as reported by smads57 in another thread, Bubba Smith recently also noted it as a specific area being worked upon. Let's hope these efforts bear fruit.

Hopefully it's followed through PP. If we can really get this right and play for each other again will be threat once again to the rest of the conpetition.

[Twodogs]

It is an area that needs addressing. We won the flag in 2016 but that bucked the trend in that a lot of premiership sides are very attacking orientated. Team defence and our ability to lock the ball inside 50 were huge in our premiership success. We need to improve it because the next time we make a grand final it might be a different game where kicking a lot of goals over 100 points is required and missing set shots will be very bad in that case. Our game against GWS this year in Canberra is a game we should have won. 9.19 very poor.

Actually it's the best defence that wins 9 out of 10 flags. If we didn't learn that in 2008-10 then we just weren't paying attention.


A few people from the club have stated we are specificly addressing goalkicking this offseason. I remember reading Josh Dunkley stating he and a few others were working on it and, as reported by smads57 in another thread, Bubba Smith recently also noted it as a specific area being worked upon. Let's hope these efforts bear fruit.

That's great but are we just letting them blast away with the same flawed techniques and processes so they are just perfecting and ingraining errors or have we worked to fix the problems.

There's no point half fixing this problem. If we do we will do more harm than good.

[Eastdog]

A Bulldog goalkicking approach revolution needs to happen!

[ratsmac]

Surely we have a goal kicking coach. I mean kicking goals is pretty important right? Surely.

[jeemak]

Getting shots on goal in the right spots has always been an issue for us. If we fix the way we move the ball forward and actually have some forwards who can take a grab after presenting in the right areas our scoring will improve. As good as a Dickson is with his accuracy, his biggest strength is getting opportunities from high probability scoring positions.

Stringer and other forwards haven't been as crafty as he has been over the past few years. The accuracy has suffered because of it.

As for the way we have scored our goals in the past, opposition defensive units exit our forward 50m wide, most free kicks and opportunities are therefore generated wide as well. Until we get forwards who can generate opportunities in the hot spot things won't change materially irrespective of how much we practice.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

I find its better just to keep your head over the ball past the moment it impacts with your boot-much like driving a golf ball-sometimes I just can't watch when a player runs in with head in the air staring intently at the goals.

Goalkicking is remarkably simple. All you have to have to remember are four things. 1. Walk to the top of your mark and take a deep breath 2. run in in a straight line 3. stand upright and keep your head over the ball as you kick it 4. drop the ball on your foot don't guide it.

It really is that simple, but my humble experience, having long arms, is contrary to your view of not guiding it. Definitely finally drop it with loose fingers, but definitely guide as low as possible onto the boot before dropping it. The guiding it with loose fingers makes it easy to time, to connect hand, leg and brain and to kick accutately.

[Hotdog60]

AFLW: Bulldogs getting on the front foot

http://s.afl.com.au/staticfile/Samples/490452-tlsnewslandscape.jpg

THE WESTERN Bulldogs' AFL Women's team has made improving basic foot skills a primary focus of pre-season training.

The Bulldogs employed a kicking coach to help players sharpen fundamental skills leading into the second season of the NAB AFLW competition.

After an extensive review of the team's program following a disappointing sixth-place finish in the inaugural season, coach Paul Groves and his staff concluded the energies they put into pre-season training had been misdirected.

Former Vic Metro under-18s girls' coach Andrew Shakespeare recently started as the team's development and academy coach. His specific brief is to bring players up to speed on their skill execution.

"We've made a change this year to the way we focused our training last pre-season," Groves told AFL.com.au.

"Andrew's job is to increase the fundamental skills of the girls and that's been a real point of emphasis this pre-season. The majority of our training sessions are made up of basic skills [training].

Last season, the Bulldogs ranked third for disposal efficiency (58.5 per cent), behind Melbourne and Carlton.

However, their inaccuracy in front of goal proved to be extremely costly.

Excluding non-scores, the Bulldogs had the second-most shots at goal (73) but converted at a rate of just 42 per cent in booting 31 goals and 42 behinds.

Fremantle (39 per cent) was the only team ranked lower than the Bulldogs in terms of accuracy. Carlton was the top ranked side (66 per cent), followed by the Brisbane Lions (57 per cent) and premier Adelaide (54 per cent).

Jayden Shea, who works with the AFL team's football department, has been added as a specialist goalkicking coach.

"Our inaccuracy last year gave the opposition chances to stay in games," Groves said.

"We won 15 of 28 quarters (fourth-best in the AFLW), so we did a few things right. But there are a few things we've been tinkering with."
LINK (http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-12-17/aflw-bulldogs-getting-on-the-front-foot)

[Hotdog60]

Well it looks like one team see a problem.

[SlimPickens]

Well it looks like one team see a problem.

With a laughable solution. Jayden Shea is the property steward

[comrade]

With a laughable solution. Jayden Shea is the property steward

What will his goal kicking work entail? Standing on the mark and jumping up and down?

[ledge]

Apparently we are going to make our Doctor the mids coach and the receptionist will be in charge of handballing , apparently receptionists are great at handballing.
Groves will then move into the toilet cleaning skill and Chris maple doing canteen.

[comrade]

What about the bloke who chewed the texta in the coaches box? Surely he can help fast track Timmy English's ruck work.

[Twodogs]

With a laughable solution. Jayden Shea is the property steward

Was the property steward.

[SlimPickens]

Was the property steward.

Pretty sure he still is

[Twodogs]

Pretty sure he still is


Great. A man of many talents.


Fair dinkum, I've always thought I knew a bit about the mechanics and aero dynamics of throwing and kicking things-it's what interests me-but obviously the footy club was chock full of people who would know more than I did and they must have it in hand.

Obviously they don't or the property steward wouldn't be doing a specialist task at a footy club that's suddenly cashed up and has said they are looking to beef the footy department up by spending money on things that need doing. The players need to learn how to kick.
Please, please, pretty please. With sugar on top. Can we teach them how to do it. Before next season.

[AndrewP6]

Great. A man of many talents.


Fair dinkum, I've always thought I knew a bit about the mechanics and aero dynamics of throwing and kicking things-it's what interests me-but obviously the footy club was chock full of people who would know more than I did and they must have it in hand.

Obviously they don't or the property steward wouldn't be doing a specialist task at a footy club that's suddenly cashed up and has said they are looking to beef the footy department up by spending money on things that need doing. The players need to learn how to kick.
Please, please, pretty please. With sugar on top. Can we teach them how to do it. Before next season.

Shea is working with the women's side, not the men's. I agree that the men need it too.

[Topdog]

So everyone here knows what Shea can do?

[bornadog]

So everyone here knows what Shea can do?

Not me, but obviously he is more than a property steward, otherwise he wouldn't be appointed to the role. I looked him up on LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/jayden-shea-426690b8/) but didn't learn too much.

The one thing I learn't he doesn't look like property stewards of the past, ie a grumpy old man :D

[ledge]

So everyone here knows what Shea can do?

Well he can obviously kick straight that's a given and goes well looking after the gear.

[Greystache]

So everyone here knows what Shea can do?

He kicked 3 goals in 4 games this season with Old Eltham Collegians in the VAFA 5th division. So he has played the sport before. Plus working as the property steward you kind of pick up a bit of an idea of what to do just by hanging around.

[jeemak]

None of this makes sense. Do we not have access to anyone in the football industry who would be considered qualified? Does it seem patronising towards semi-professional women to have an amateur footballer coaching their goal kicking?

[bulldogtragic]

None of this makes sense. Do we not have access to anyone in the football industry who would be considered qualified? Does it seem patronising towards semi-professional women to have an amateur footballer coaching their goal kicking?

Yes, but at least the women's team has someone for it. In the last few weeks I've read how we've identified poor goal kicking as a serious issue for both teams, but then we've gone about addressing it with a complete lack of seriousness.

You can't help but feel if the sport was cricket and our issue was not bowling enough wicket keeping deliveries we'd address it or get a professional in to help.

Considering goal kicking is vital to winning more, including finals, this would be addressed more comprehensively.

[Twodogs]

Yes, but at least the women's team has someone for it. In the last few weeks I've read how we've identified poor goal kicking as a serious issue for both teams, but then we've gone about addressing it with a complete lack of seriousness.

You can't help but feel if the sport was cricket and our issue was not bowling enough wicket keeping deliveries we'd address it or get a professional in to help.

Considering goal kicking is vital to winning more, including finals, this would be addressed more comprehensively.


Sorry BT but do you mean wicket taking deliveries?

I agree completely about the need for specialist tuition in goalkicking in particular. In fact I have been banging on about it for what seems like years. And years.


And years.

[bulldogtragic]

Sorry BT but do you mean wicket taking deliveries?

I agree completely about the need for specialist tuition in goalkicking in particular. In fact I have been banging on about it for what seems like years. And years.


And years.

Yep. It's at least decades by my calculation.

[jazzadogs]

None of this makes sense. Do we not have access to anyone in the football industry who would be considered qualified? Does it seem patronising towards semi-professional women to have an amateur footballer coaching their goal kicking?

They also have an amateur footballer as their senior coach if we're going down that track.

Let's be honest, none of us actually know what Shea's credentials are. Being the property steward doesn't mean he's unqualified - it might just mean he really wanted to get involved in an AFL club and saw that as a way in.

According to this (http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/2014-07-11/libbas-column-keeper-of-the-kennel) 2014 column he "considered himself to be one of the best small forwards" Parade College had ever seen. Not sure why he's getting knocked around so much.

And he's Bont's best mate at the club (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/western-bulldogs/marcus-bontempelli-calm-beyond-years-and-wont-carried-away-by-accolades-writes-mark-robinson/news-story/090a26e920bc8716d7582beb5e028faf). "Oh, and his best friend at the footy club is a property steward named Jayden Shea, who grew up near his Eltham home in neighbouring Montmorency."

[Topdog]

I don't get, it seems like we could hire someone like Jason Dunstall as a goalkicking coach and everyone would be excited despite having no idea if he can teach at all. Yet everyone is ready to shoot down this appointment because they don't know his skillset.

[ledge]

I don't get, it seems like we could hire someone like Jason Dunstall as a goalkicking coach and everyone would be excited despite having no idea if he can teach at all. Yet everyone is ready to shoot down this appointment because they don't know his skillset.
I'm not shooting it down I have no idea on his credentials , I was just having a laugh, seems comedy is a dying art and we have to be politically correct and careful we don't hurt anyone's feelings.
In the words of the joker " why so serious ?"
We did have peter Gordon serving in the canteen at A game once, we are a club full of multiskilled personal :-)

[Twodogs]

I'm not shooting it down I have no idea on his credentials , I was just having a laugh, seems comedy is a dying art and we have to be politically correct and careful we don't hurt anyone's feelings.
In the words of the joker " why so serious ?"
We did have peter Gordon serving in the canteen at A game once, we are a club full of multiskilled personal :-)

Surely you mean Commissionaire Gordon?

[ledge]

Surely you mean Commissionaire Gordon?

Chef Gordon better than that other Gordon who thinks he can cook.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Stuart Lowe; Levi Casboult. Two atrocious kicks with their natural style who were taught to change with greater sucess. I am sure goalkicking is teachable.
All top golfers and tennis players have coaches. The skills they teach involve drills. Our forwards would greatly benefit from forward coach led goal kicking drills.Our current conversion is unacceptable, in fact trash. Goal kicking accuracy and its coaching is a clear area where we can get a jump on the comp, especially given our proficiency at forward entries. Now, this very preseason, is our opportunity. I want to see goal kicking drills at
practice sessions.
Incidently that guy in jail's gravy won't be missed. Someone else will make the gravy with Gravox, proabably the guy with too much after shave and the others won't care cos they don't make gravy.

[Twodogs]

Stuart Lowe; Levi Casboult. Two atrocious kicks with their natural style who were taught to change with greater sucess. I am sure goalkicking is teachable.
All top golfers and tennis players have coaches. The skills they teach involve drills. Our forwards would greatly benefit from forward coach led goal kicking drills.Our current conversion is unacceptable, in fact trash. Goal kicking accuracy and its coaching is a clear area where we can get a jump on the comp, especially given our proficiency at forward entries. Now, this very preseason, is our opportunity. I want to see goal kicking drills at
practice sessions.
Incidently that guy in jail's gravy won't be missed. Someone else will make the gravy with Gravox, proabably the guy with too much after shave and the others won't care cos they don't make gravy.


The gravy is a metaphor isn't it? For Christmas and the issues it invarably dredges up.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

The gravy is a metaphor isn't it? For Christmas and the issues it invarably dredges up.
How true that is. A metaphor for jail too. I still think we need goal kicking drills.

[Twodogs]

How true that is. A metaphor for jail too. I still think we need goal kicking drills.


We do indeed.

[westdog54]

I'm not shooting it down I have no idea on his credentials , I was just having a laugh, seems comedy is a dying art and we have to be politically correct and careful we don't hurt anyone's feelings.
In the words of the joker " why so serious ?"
We did have peter Gordon serving in the canteen at A game once, we are a club full of multiskilled personal :-)

It could be political correctness thats the problem.

Could also be that your jokes just aren't funny.

[ledge]

It could be political correctness thats the problem.

Could also be that your jokes just aren't funny.

Probably more close to the mark , what's funny to some isn't to others.
I always had a giggle at my ex, she never found anything funny about my jokes but my kids have my sense of humour.