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Testekill
07-02-2018, 05:14 PM
http://www.news.com.au/sport/sports-life/garry-lyon-takes-aim-at-the-afl-for-undermining-the-aflw/news-story



https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/jess-wuetschner-slams-afl-memo-calling-for-aflw-coaches-to-adjust-tactics-to-reduce-congestion/news-story

THE AFL has sent an extraordinary memo, calling for AFLW coaches to adjust their tactics this weekend in order to reduce congestion.

Foxfooty.com.au has obtained the memo, which was sent by AFL football operations boss Steve Hocking to the eight clubs with AFLW teams, that asks for coaches to instruct less players to surround stoppages in Round 2.

The note was sent after coaches held discussions with AFL executives, including Hocking and AFLW boss Nicole Livingstone, on Wednesday.

...
“Vegas has plenty of showgirls if they want a ‘performance’ ... but if you want better footy, let the coaches teach it! We are 9 rounds into a competition for goodness sake,” an AFLW club official told foxfooty.com.au.




https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/brianna-davey-says-she-doesnt-care-how-carlton-plays-as-long-as-it-wins-despite-afl-ceo-phone-calls/news-story/

Carlton captain Davey on Wednesday said the Blues understood the AFL’s take, but declared that the players are “here to win games” and will do “whatever we need to do to get over the line for that particular game”.

“As players and as teams, we probably don’t really care what it looks like as long as we’re getting that win,” Davey said at the launch of the AFLW Round 4 Pride Game.







http://girlsplayfooty.com/2018/02/the-afl-has-no-respect-for-coaches-players-or-the-aflw-as-a-competition.html
...

But this has become an attack on the players, an attack on the coaching staff, and an attack on the AFLW as a competitive league, and the fact that the head honchos do not realise that, is not acceptable.

The AFLW was launched in 2017, three years before the expected start. It was understood that the competition would begin in 2020, but the AFL showed ambition in bringing the league forward by three years.

That ambition has turned to quick-fixes as a result of anxiety over issues that aren’t really issues, and worst of all, the introduction of solutions that aren’t really solutions.

Women’s football was fine in 2016. Most leagues played 20 or 25-minute quarters, the play was open, and it was enjoyable to watch. The one knock was that the quality of players in the bottom 75 per cent were well below those in the top 25 per cent, but that comes with the nature of a sport that, while it has 100 years of history, is still budding at an elite level.

Women’s football didn’t need tweaking, it just needed time.




If teams don't abide by these suggested tactics to free up congestion then the AFL is threatening to introduce zone rules in the 3rd round.
Just more blatant corruption from the AFL

bornadog
07-02-2018, 05:42 PM
Unbelievable meddling. So blatant, undermining the women and undermining football in general.

chef
07-02-2018, 07:40 PM
Not surprising. The AEFL is so dodgy nowadays.

Happy Days
07-02-2018, 10:41 PM
After their "stance" on transgender players this is sadly unsurprising and not unexpected.

Daughter of the West
08-02-2018, 01:06 PM
Just wow.

Because, of course, the AFLW should be pretty much the same standard as AFL by now. You know, after one (shorter than AFL) season and one round. Despite the fact the female pre season is shorter. And the pathways are far less developed. And they are semi professional at best. And hold down jobs. And have barely played together as teams. And half the cohort have been pinched from other sports.

BUT WHY OH WHY OH WHY DON'T THEY PLAY TO THE "ENTERTAINMENT" STANDARD THE AFL EXPECTS?!?

/rant

Twodogs
08-02-2018, 01:12 PM
Just wow.

Because, of course, the AFLW should be pretty much the same standard as AFL by now. You know, after one (shorter than AFL) season and one round. Despite the fact the female pre season is shorter. And the pathways are far less developed. And they are semi professional at best. And hold down jobs. And have barely played together as teams. And half the cohort have been pinched from other sports.

BUT WHY OH WHY OH WHY DON'T THEY PLAY TO THE "ENTERTAINMENT" STANDARD THE AFL EXPECTS?!?

/rant



Oh come on. You chicks are just looking for excuses now. You must understand that footy is a men's business and you guys just aren't doing it right. You seem to think that the game is something that is played to be won or lost buts that's what men play it for. Youse babes are just there to break up the year and provide a bit of eye candy for us hard working guys to look at.*




*thats me at full sarcasm. Twodogs can in no way be held responsible for anything Twodogs says.

Daughter of the West
08-02-2018, 01:19 PM
Oh come on. You chicks are just looking for excuses now. You must understand that footy is a men's business and you guys just aren't doing it right. You seem to think that the game is something that is played to be won or lost buts that's what men play it for. Youse babes are just there to break up the year and provide a bit of eye candy for us hard working guys to look at.*





*thats me at full sarcasm. Twodogs can in no way be held responsible for anything Twodogs says.

And here I was, going to admit I'd been put back in my place by a man (who are clearly always right) and just head meekly back to the kitchen and you've gone and put on a sarcasm disclaimer! ;)

Twodogs
08-02-2018, 02:56 PM
And here I was, going to admit I'd been put back in my place by a man (who are clearly always right) and just head meekly back to the kitchen and you've gone and put on a sarcasm disclaimer! ;)


About football maybe but there's heaps of things you babes know all about that are a mystery to us so don't worry. You know, laundry, looking after the ankle biters, pillow fights in your underwear. It's all good.


And there's always netball!

bornadog
08-02-2018, 03:43 PM
The only people complaining about AFLW are men - says it all.

Smads57
08-02-2018, 09:16 PM
Does the scoring from the initial VFL men's season resonate with anyone else (see here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1897_VFL_season#Round_1))...

Twodogs
08-02-2018, 09:59 PM
Does the scoring from the initial VFL men's season resonate with anyone else (see here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1897_VFL_season#Round_1))...

Heh! 9 out of 14 weeks St Kilda had the top score kicked against them. That St Kilda team from 1897-1899 is close to the worst team ever in the comp. Didn't win a game for the first 3 seasons of the VFL.

SonofScray
09-02-2018, 07:57 AM
This is a game wide issue, amplified by the fact that the league doesn't really believe in AFLW, rather it believes in the perception it creates for them as an organisation.

The AFL don't value the game of Australian Rules Football. It isn't good enough in its own right according to them. Rather than facilitate a contest, they want to create a product. Rules changes, coercion & funding are the tools they deploy. It's been happening for about 20 years out in the open, unchallenged.

The men rolled over, because the gravy train is too alluring for anyone to dissent. Hopefully our sisters have more courage and sense of unity to push back.

westdog54
09-02-2018, 09:01 AM
The thing that strikes me the most about this memo us that AFL House were arrogant enough to think that it would stay in house.

Did Steve Hocking stop and think, even for a second "how will this read on the back page of both Melbourne papers?"

Topdog
09-02-2018, 09:48 AM
I kind of understand both sides of the argument. Obviously the quality won't be there as it is brand new and women haven't been able to play football past the age of 15 for a long long time but the consequence of that is that the standard is "poor"

I think the AFL hyped it a little too much initially and as such people are now criticising it too much.

It needs time and perhaps some tweaks to ball size and ground size but coaches should be allowed to coach to win and players to do the same.

It's still very much SEMI professional and in need of time.

soupman
09-02-2018, 10:05 AM
What a bunch of arseholes.

Why don't they send a memo out addressing the fact that they scheduled the worst matchup of the round as the feature piece. Melbourne vs GWS was a ripper, our game was one of the most skilfull I've seen in AFLW thus far and from reports Adelaide vs Brisbane was an excellent standard. But no the tone had to be set by thw worst matchup because of the notion that those "big two clubs" had "earnt it".

Or what about a memo about how they are going to greatly reduce the standard as soon as possible by introducing a shitload more clubs, stretching a thin talent pool already propped up by stealing athletes from other sports who've never played footy before.

Also so far the AFLW has attracted excellent crowds and viewing figures from a mostly supportive audience. It would seem that despite the issues the memo tries to address the league has already got a great crowd. So who are the changes trying to attract? You only have to read the comments online to see that nobody is hanging out for just a little more space around contests before they start to find the womens version entertaining. Those who haven't liked it so far are not at all afraid of saying why not (usually something along the lines of "I tried to watch it but had to turn it off after 5 minutes because the skill level was so atrocious I bet my sons under 12s team could beat them they're certainly better kicks and the girls want to be paid the same as the men what a joke they're shit"). There is literally no one who is currently attending games or watching on tv that is saying "It has potential but until they introduce a 5-6-5 formation i don't think I'll be back".

They can't talk it up as a true womens competition for the elite with marketing slogans like "for the love of the game" while threatening clubs with rule changes and zones if they don't comply with head office instructions.

It's just disappointing because they are truly lucky to have received such support and goodwill for what they have done and this kind of memo immediately and greatly diminishes their integrity and the respect they show to the game they are in charge of.

Twodogs
09-02-2018, 10:49 AM
The thing that strikes me the most about this memo us that AFL House were arrogant enough to think that it would stay in house.

Did Steve Hocking stop and think, even for a second "how will this read on the back page of both Melbourne papers?"


Bang on. Apart from anything else if he is so stupid that didn't occur to him I don't want him involved in the organisation or administration of football. The AFL need to learn they are just the AFL, not the game.

Ozza
09-02-2018, 10:57 AM
I kind of understand both sides of the argument. Obviously the quality won't be there as it is brand new and women haven't been able to play football past the age of 15 for a long long time but the consequence of that is that the standard is "poor"

I think the AFL hyped it a little too much initially and as such people are now criticising it too much.

It needs time and perhaps some tweaks to ball size and ground size but coaches should be allowed to coach to win and players to do the same.

It's still very much SEMI professional and in need of time.

Yeah, I agree with your post and can also see both sides of the argument.

It is in everyone's interest for the women's game to grow to a point where the women can earn a living from playing the game in the future. As much as there is an ok following AT games right now (which are free to attend) - but the audience for the game is still very very limited.

As much as all the teams are playing to win - there is clearly a bigger picture that the people in the women's game have to be conscious of. Flooding backlines and packing up the stoppages - when the players are not yet adept enough to work around those tactics - does nothing for enhancing the product in its early, developmental stages.

Topdog
09-02-2018, 08:59 PM
Also it's easy to say "well if you don't like it, don't watch it" but is that actually what we want to happen?

This current game is unwatchable for me and i don't think that's a positive no matter how it's spun and seeing players flood the backline and then not be able to counter attack is kind of pointless

bornadog
10-02-2018, 06:20 PM
Also it's easy to say "well if you don't like it, don't watch it" but is that actually what we want to happen?

This current game is unwatchable for me and i don't think that's a positive no matter how it's spun and seeing players flood the backline and then not be able to counter attack is kind of pointless
you can’t change that with rule changes unless you change the game dramatically then it is not football

Topdog
10-02-2018, 07:28 PM
you can’t change that with rule changes unless you change the game dramatically then it is not football

No rule changes necessary just need coaches to coach skills not tactics

Testekill
10-02-2018, 08:11 PM
The thing about wanting to force a more open game is fine and dandy but percentage means basically SFA in AFLW because the season is only 8 games long including the grand final. Who bother stacking on percentage when it's easier to protect a lead?

mjp
10-02-2018, 08:26 PM
No rule changes necessary just need coaches to coach skills not tactics

The 3+2 rule will help though...

bornadog
10-02-2018, 09:55 PM
The 3+2 rule will help though...
Then there will be more whinging and more changes. Getting away from football

mjp
10-02-2018, 10:40 PM
Then there will be more whinging and more changes. Getting away from football

It HAS helped at u18 level. It would help AFLW. It isn’t rule for the AFL - that is elite competition,win at all costs but AFLW has other responsibilities...

Opening up numbers around stoppages and mandating a forward ‘structure’ is maintained will help. The coaches won’t do it otherwise and the game as it stands is a series of rolling mails and the player don’t have the ball handling or kicking skills to break it open...some of them have only been playing for 12-months.

I watch because it is footy but at this stage of the games development it should be about enabling skills to develop (and shine) and encouraging team play...that isn’t happening right now.

SonofScray
11-02-2018, 08:40 AM
It HAS helped at u18 level. It would help AFLW. It isn’t rule for the AFL - that is elite competition,win at all costs but AFLW has other responsibilities...

Opening up numbers around stoppages and mandating a forward ‘structure’ is maintained will help. The coaches won’t do it otherwise and the game as it stands is a series of rolling mails and the player don’t have the ball handling or kicking skills to break it open...some of them have only been playing for 12-months.

I watch because it is footy but at this stage of the games development it should be about enabling skills to develop (and shine) and encouraging team play...that isn’t happening right now.

Heard Mick McGuane suggest that while it has been handy, it has had consequences for development too. You aren't getting a look at talent in situations that will arise at AFL level. Maybe it came up in conversations about Shache. Creates a bit of a false economy for assessing talent and developing skills.

I have no opinion one way or another n the current style of play, it's just footy to me. Just that the introduction of rules to manufacture a particular look is a terrible strategy and not one that should be allowed to be employed by the AFL. It creates a chain of unintended consequences which generates the need for further intervention. Then trends and attitudes shift and it gets even messier.

Twodogs
11-02-2018, 09:55 AM
Heard Mick McGuane suggest that while it has been handy, it has had consequences for development too. You aren't getting a look at talent in situations that will arise at AFL level. Maybe it came up in conversations about Shache. Creates a bit of a false economy for assessing talent and developing skills.

I have no opinion one way or another n the current style of play, it's just footy to me. Just that the introduction of rules to manufacture a particular look is a terrible strategy and not one that should be allowed to be employed by the AFL. It creates a chain of unintended consequences which generates the need for further intervention. Then trends and attitudes shift and it gets even messier.

Yep. If we want to completely destroy our game in the long term just for some short term television benefit. And we don't run our game so it looks good on TV. That's not why we make rule changes.

Topdog
11-02-2018, 01:20 PM
Yep. If we want to completely destroy our game in the long term just for some short term television benefit. And we don't run our game so it looks good on TV. That's not why we make rule changes.

I'd argue that what's being played at the moment isn't our game. It's basically rugby. Forcing coaches to not flood will be a big improvement

Twodogs
11-02-2018, 02:03 PM
I'd argue that what's being played at the moment isn't our game. It's basically rugby. Forcing coaches to not flood will be a big improvement


How would they operate? If they are just positions that players have to start in when the umpire bounces the ball in the middle of the ground then I don't have a problem, we have a form of that already with only 4 players in the centre circle at cebtre bounces.

I hate the idea of forwards not being able to move into other areas of the ground or defenders not being allowed to run the length of the ground or centreline players not being free to roam everywhere and drop back to defend or run forward of the play to create options though. I think ruck nominating is enough of a restriction and a limit to players freedom as it is and dislike it intensely.

bornadog
11-02-2018, 04:18 PM
I'd argue that what's being played at the moment isn't our game. It's basically rugby. Forcing coaches to not flood will be a big improvement
May as well have zones then

GVGjr
11-02-2018, 05:18 PM
May as well have zones then

The way TAC teams approach the game makes for a good spectacle and they don't flood.
I don't like changes to the rules or changes to the the umpire interpretations once the season has started. Let the game evolve and then have a clear set of rules and changes at least 4 months before the season starts so that the coaches and players can make the adjustments.

Hotdog60
11-02-2018, 06:35 PM
Possibly the media execs pushing the issue. Doesn't make good enough television watching.
Media drives so much in footy these days.

boydogs
11-02-2018, 07:13 PM
AFLX should have been for the womens game. The grounds are too big for them to score much

bornadog
11-02-2018, 10:41 PM
The grounds are too big for them to score much

They only get 15 minutes to score which is about half the time the men's games goes for with time on.

Here is what I would do:

Without changing the game of Australian Rules football with rule changes, just to suit all the men viewing the game (rhe only ones complaining)

1. Shorter and slightly narrower grounds.

2. Two interchanges same as football was back pre the 1990s

That is all that is required. Then let the game evolve and concentrate training the skills.

Twodogs
11-02-2018, 10:59 PM
They only get 15 minutes to score which is about half the time the men's games goes for with time on.

Here is what I would do:

Without changing the game of Australian Rules football with rule changes, just to suit all the men viewing the game (rhe only ones complaining)

1. Shorter and slightly narrower grounds.

2. Two interchanges same as football was back pre the 1990s

That is all that is required. Then let the game evolve and concentrate training the skills.

The exact solution to the problem of congestion, shuttle running and defensive zones, make the players too fatigued to worry about anything other than playing the game. But it will never happen because coaches like their job and the less interchanges, the less stratergy the less you need coaches. They aren't going to sign their own death certificate.