Season Preview: Eight Reasons Why The Bulldogs Can Get Excited in 2019

[The Adelaide Connection]

Whoa, an unexpected dose of optimism from the Herald Sun:
https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/western-bulldogs/eight-reasons-why-the-western-bulldogs-should-be-excited-about-season-2019/news-story/b1fab0bf40edb43e458dd86abeb10d65?login=1

It’s been downhill for the Western Bulldogs since the 2016 premiership but there were enough signs late last season pointing to a climb up the ladder in 2019.

CHRIS CAVANAGH takes a look at where the Bulldogs will improve this year.

EIGHT REASONS WHY THE BULLDOGS CAN GET EXCITED
1. THERE WERE SIGNS

The Bulldogs’ start to the 2018 season was horrid, kickstarted by an 82-point defeat at the hands of Greater Western Sydney. However, most of the back half of the season was a little better as the young side began to grow. From Round 6 onwards, the Bulldogs went 7-10, after a 1-4 start to their campaign. They won three of their last four matches, the sole loss in August coming against 2017 premier Richmond by three points in the final round. While inconsistency week-to-week and within games still hurt on occasion, there were enough positive signs shown later in the season that gives the side something to build on.

2. PREMIERSHIP PLAYERS

We are entering the third season since the Bulldogs’ breakthrough premiership in 2016, and there has been some change from that side. The likes of Jake Stringer (Essendon) and Luke Dahlhaus (Geelong) have moved on, but 15 of those premiership players still remain. That is a lot more premiership experience than many clubs have and should hold the Bulldogs in good stead after a couple of down years. There is talent there that knows what it takes to climb to the competition’s pinnacle — it just has to action that once again.

3. JOSH SCHACHE

There was a reason this young forward was taken at pick 2 in the 2015 national draft and we finally started to see that in patches last season. After struggling through his second year at Brisbane in 2017, Schache rediscovered some form after getting a fresh start back home in Victoria with the Bulldogs. The 21-year-old played 13 games, averaging 4.1 marks and kicking 17 goals. Schache revealed in mid-November he had already added 4.7kg in the gym to help fill out his 199cm frame, knowing he needed to be stronger in marking contests. Key position players take time, but entering his fourth season it is time for Schache to shine.

4. SAM LLOYD

He was far from the biggest name to move clubs during the AFL’s free agency and trade period, but former Richmond utility Sam Lloyd could prove a very handy pick up. At 28 years old, he provides a mature body in a young side and has grown into a versatile player after starting his AFL career as a mid-size marking forward. Lloyd has spent the majority of the past two seasons starring for Richmond’s VFL side as a goalkicking midfielder, averaging 25 disposals and six tackles while kicking 14 goals from 11 games last season. He might have found it hard to earn a regular spot in a dominant Richmond side the past two years — playing just 15 AFL games — but expect Lloyd to play plenty of senior football with the Bulldogs next year.

5. FRIENDLY FIXTURE

Finishing 13th on the ladder does have some perks, namely receiving a very kind fixture the following year as the Bulldogs have for 2019. Champion Data ranks the Bulldogs draw as the fifth-easiest of any side next season with double-up games against Carlton, Brisbane, Fremantle, Geelong and Collingwood. On paper, that stacks up a lot better than the 2018 double-up opponents of West Coast, Port Adelaide, Melbourne, North Melbourne and Carlton, against whom Luke Beveridge’s side went 3-7.

6. SUCKLING RETURN

In 2017, Matthew Suckling ranked second at the Bulldogs for kicks, rebound-50s, inside-50s and marks. The side loves to get the ball in Suckling’s hands — and on his booming left foot — but didn’t have that option as much last season as the defender missed the last 11 rounds with an achilles injury. The good news is the two-time Hawthorn premiership player is back running and building nicely towards a strong finish to the pre-season, confident the injury will not give him any further problems. While Suckling is now 30 years old, he and the Bulldogs will be hoping there is plenty of good footy left in him.


7. LIAM PICKEN

A second big concussion in 12 months during a pre-season match in March put premiership forward Liam Picken on the sidelines for the entire 2018 season. Immediately ruled out indefinitely, there was hope of a mid-season return but that never eventuated as headaches and other side effects lingered. However, Picken has been back in training and is determined to make a return to the field next season. The 32-year-old played all 22 games in 2017, averaging 18.6 disposals, 6.2 score involvements and kicking 24 goals. The 198-game veteran also brings plenty of experience and leadership to a young forward line, his return certain to make a difference.

8. RISING STARS

The Western Bulldogs’ two first-round picks from the 2017 national draft certainly made an impact in their debut seasons. Key defender Aaron Naughton debuted in Round 1 and went on to play 18 games, averaging 11.6 disposals and 4.3 marks to earn a Rising Star nomination in the final round. Fellow defender Ed Richards, the grand-nephew of Collingwood great Lou, also showed plenty, playing 21 games and averaging 13.6 disposals to also earn a Rising Star nomination in Round 10. Along with the likes of Tim English, Patrick Lipinski and Josh Dunkley — fellow high draft picks from the previous two drafts — there is plenty of emerging young talent in the wings to get excited about.

TAB ODDS

Premiership: $51

Top-8: $4

Most losses: $15

TRAJECTORY

2014: 14th (7-15)

2015: 6th (14-8, elimination final)

2016: 7th (15-7, premier)

2017: 10th (11-11)

2018: 13th (8-14)

THE NUMBER: 7

The Bulldogs strength is their midfield, rated seventh in the competition. The concern is over the forward half, which is ranked 15th for quality, with only four permanent forwards who have played 10 matches over the last two years.

Source: CHAMPION DATA

[bornadog]

7. Liam Picken ? I think the HUN forgot about one of the clearance machines of the AFL - LIBBA

[Eastdog]

7. Liam Picken ? I think the HUN forgot about one of the clearance machines of the AFL - LIBBA

Huge potential for Libba to have a big 2019. Will be great to have him and Picko back. Someone like Picko gives us that experience. Sure we have a young side but we certainly have experience around particularly with us getting Lloyd and Duryea. Just now for no injuries.

[mjp]

Whoa, an unexpected dose of optimism from the Herald Sun:


I am incredibly optimistic...but when they list VFL players, players in their 30's returning from serious concussion issues, a fixture we have no idea about AND a 30-year old half back (again, returning from injury who missed selection in the 2016 premiership) as 50% of those reasons I am wondering if I should reconsider my position.

[Bulldog Joe]

I am incredibly optimistic...but when they list VFL players, players in their 30's returning from serious concussion issues, a fixture we have no idea about AND a 30-year old half back (again, returning from injury who missed selection in the 2016 premiership) as 50% of those reasons I am wondering if I should reconsider my position.

I am with you on the optimism.

Clearly there was a brief to write an upbeat column, but they have shown limited knowledge in the report.

I think most of us could give a few additional reasons missing from the report.

[Mofra]

Two of the biggest boosts we should receive have been overlooked - Libba and Bailey Williams in the midfield.

With all due respect to Roarke Smith, Duryea is an upgrade so there's an instant improvement as well. I'm bullish on Schache as well, as mentioned above.

[GVGjr]

Excellent points Mofra.
Yep I'm bullish on the season ahead as well.

Schache, Williams, Liberatore and Dunkley all having something special to offer us in 2019.
Lloyd and Duryea will add depth and hopefully Suckling can get back close to the form he displayed in 2018.

All looks good to me

[bulldogtragic]

There's much to be positive about in terms of players. Everyone needs to be positive at this time of the year. The question marks for me, which time will tell, is the coach playing players in their best positions and a gameplan that makes the most of the players we have. If these things are right this year, and our fitness & conditioning staff do their job properly, then I think finals at a minimum should be the goal.

[mjp]

...is the coach playing players in their best positions...

Apart from the Easton Wood thing, I think Bevo does this...

I know this quote thing makes it sounds like I am 'having a go' at you BT but that isn't the intent. I have gotten the feeling over the past 18-months that the overwhelming opinion of this forum is that the coach keeps playing guys 'out of position'...who in particular and where should they play?

If people want to criticise the coach for not preparing the squad well after the 2016 season, then I'm with them...but I don't get this 'played out of position' thing. I have been frustrated at team selections (particularly lack of running players) but on at least some of those occasions, there really was no-one else available...and (as we saw near the end of last year), some of the time the teams that seemed the least 'balanced' on paper were still successful because our best players decided to take the game over...

[Mofra]

I know this quote thing makes it sounds like I am 'having a go' at you BT but that isn't the intent. I have gotten the feeling over the past 18-months that the overwhelming opinion of this forum is that the coach keeps playing guys 'out of position'...who in particular and where should they play?
I think Bevo has done this with a quite a few players (ignoring the Wood debacle), either out of necessity and (moreso this year) a desire to see where our list is at.

JJ is another obvious 'failure' when played elsewhere - he's a middling wingman or an outstanding HB. Part of begin played elsewhere is to develop the part of his game where he breaks the lock-down player on him.

Dunkley is not much of a forward - however his work in tandem with Bonti over the past 4-6 weeks of the season shows he's going to be an excellent inside mid (Bont's contested numbers fell from 50% to 33% when Dunkley went into the centre, coinciding with out best football of the year).

Zaine played forward in 2016 out of sheer necessity - he was outstanding as a defensive forward in the West Coast elimination final and basically bought his spot for the rest of the finals series in one night. His future clearly lies as a backman.

Naughton is a backman, but he spent time forward as we desperately needed a contested marking option there (and he's the best on our list already) and we had 57 defenders as our only other fit options. It helped his development too.

Bailey Williams spent about 4 weeks this year as statistically most effective backmen in the competition but was transitioned into the midfield as that's where his future lies, but the end of his year I'd say it's a raging success.

Ed Richards we playing well as a HBFer but was shifted forward and onto the wing, I honestly preferred him on a wing by the end of the season. That's a win.

Mitch Wallis proved to be a very effective forward after teams worked him out at the centre bounces. He's our new Clay Smith, forward stoppages specialist who shows some surprising smarts with positioning.

Even Caleb Daniel to the backline seemed to work after he has played most of his football as a high forward taking the occasional centre rotation.

One thing I never ever ever (ever) want to see again - Bontempelli taking a ruck contest. Ever. You don't get a Rolls Royce to plow a field.

[MrMahatma]

Apart from the Easton Wood thing, I think Bevo does this...

I know this quote thing makes it sounds like I am 'having a go' at you BT but that isn't the intent. I have gotten the feeling over the past 18-months that the overwhelming opinion of this forum is that the coach keeps playing guys 'out of position'...who in particular and where should they play?

If people want to criticise the coach for not preparing the squad well after the 2016 season, then I'm with them...but I don't get this 'played out of position' thing. I have been frustrated at team selections (particularly lack of running players) but on at least some of those occasions, there really was no-one else available...and (as we saw near the end of last year), some of the time the teams that seemed the least 'balanced' on paper were still successful because our best players decided to take the game over...


Boyd not playing forward adds to the argument.

I think the “out of position” thing is overdone too, but a couple of high profile moves have built it into folklore.

[SonofScray]

I can feel a big year in my bones.

The changes to the team, particularly the outs, feel like the right decisions. We've cut into a lot of that recurring injury, hampered by injury narrative. Fingers crossed what has come in & what we have already can stay fit. Personnel wise we're going into the season in better shape. I'm confident we'll get improvement from enough players and more of the same from some solid performers to swing things back in the right direction.

[GVGjr]

When you have players that promise such a strong 2019 season like Schache, Williams, Dunkley, English, Lipinski, Naughton, Richards and Gowers it's almost impossible for me to not get excited about the season ahead. There is plenty of hard work for our list but I think there are plenty of positives in front of us.

[Bulldog Joe]

When you have players that promise such a strong 2019 season like Schache, Williams, Dunkley, English, Lipinski, Naughton, Richards and Gowers it's almost impossible for me to not get excited about the season ahead. There is plenty of hard work for our list but I think there are plenty of positives in front of us.

I am strongly with you on this, with particular emphasis on the expected improvement in contribution from Schache, Williams, Dunkley and English.

If we get that, I also see it becoming much easier for Bontempelli to be an enormous influence.

The centre square rule has me seeing Bont gathering in the centre and delivering the ball deep into the 50 better than any player in the comp. It is not unreasonable to think that he will kick goals directly just from the centre clearance on occasions.

[mjp]

Boyd not playing forward adds to the argument.


I have watched pretty much every game Tom Boyd has ever played.

Boyd in the RUCK >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Boyd as a forward.

Of course, the argument is going to come back 'If he would just leave him there...'.

Well, if he would just leave him there then what? He hasn't played well as a forward at AFL level. He doesn't lead hard enough - sure as certain doesn't hit the logos - and drops too many marks.

I think Bevo has played Boyd in absolutely the right position...the problem has been he is injured/unavailable ALL THE TIME so hasn't gotten any continuity (hence confidence) with his footy.

[GVGjr]

I have watched pretty much every game Tom Boyd has ever played.

Boyd in the RUCK >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Boyd as a forward.

Of course, the argument is going to come back 'If he would just leave him there...'.

Well, if he would just leave him there then what? He hasn't played well as a forward at AFL level. He doesn't lead hard enough - sure as certain doesn't hit the logos - and drops too many marks.

I think Bevo has played Boyd in absolutely the right position...the problem has been he is injured/unavailable ALL THE TIME so hasn't gotten any continuity (hence confidence) with his footy.

I have to disagree on this. In my opinion we haven't really given him enough of a chance to establish himself as a forward. If he is fit and with the very likely scenario that English and Trengove will be the preferred ruckman I'm hoping that Boyd spend the majority of his time up forward. If that doesn't work then fine I'll concede he has to become a ruckman but lets give him that chance.

[mjp]

If that doesn't work then fine I'll concede he has to become a ruckman but lets give him that chance.

...and I get this point. BUT. When I get told that Bevo puts players in the wrong positions and Boyd is cited as an example, well, that's just not right.

Whilst leaving Boyd in the forward line for LONGER might 'give him a chance' (as you noted) to prove himself in that role, on ALL AVAILABLE EVIDENCE he is an AFL ruckman and not an AFL forward.

Whether the coach should have been playing him forward to 'give him a chance' - particularly given his inconsistent form and well publicised mental health battles - is a matter for debate of course but I can almost guarantee that if I had a player at my disposal who was battling with consistency and had reported issues with mental health to the club, I would play him in the role where he had the most history of success (aka in the ruck).

Maybe the "right thing" for the coach to do is play Boyd at FF and leave him there. But to use this as an example of Bevo playing guys out of position is just not fair.

I will say the same thing for the JJ example. I have a long held view that moving elite hbf's to the midfield is fools gold 'cos you weaken yourself in two positions, but the position he plays has ZERO to do with his ability to fight through negative tactics by opponents...

[comrade]

I have watched pretty much every game Tom Boyd has ever played.

Boyd in the RUCK >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Boyd as a forward.

Of course, the argument is going to come back 'If he would just leave him there...'.

Well, if he would just leave him there then what? He hasn't played well as a forward at AFL level. He doesn't lead hard enough - sure as certain doesn't hit the logos - and drops too many marks.

I think Bevo has played Boyd in absolutely the right position...the problem has been he is injured/unavailable ALL THE TIME so hasn't gotten any continuity (hence confidence) with his footy.

This x1000.

[GVGjr]

Whilst leaving Boyd in the forward line for LONGER might 'give him a chance' (as you noted) to prove himself in that role, on ALL AVAILABLE EVIDENCE he is an AFL ruckman and not an AFL forward.

Whether the coach should have been playing him forward to 'give him a chance' - particularly given his inconsistent form and well publicised mental health battles - is a matter for debate of course but I can almost guarantee that if I had a player at my disposal who was battling with consistency and had reported issues with mental health to the club, I would play him in the role where he had the most history of success (aka in the ruck).

Maybe the "right thing" for the coach to do is play Boyd at FF and leave him there. But to use this as an example of Bevo playing guys out of position is just not fair..
Is he an AFL ruckman though? He's decent at it but as much as you don't see him as a forward I dont see him becoming a top flight ruckman. He's competitive but nothing special. We gave up on him as a key forward way too early in his career after trading for him as a key forward and paying him to be that. The Cats didn't give up on Hawkins as a key forward as quickly as Bevo did with Boyd.
We've stuffed around with part timers because we've typically not had enough depth at the position so I hope we give both Boyd and Schache the chace to become key fowards for us more than having them spend the majority of time in tbe ruck.

[The Adelaide Connection]

I have watched pretty much every game Tom Boyd has ever played.

Boyd in the RUCK >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Boyd as a forward.

Of course, the argument is going to come back 'If he would just leave him there...'.

Well, if he would just leave him there then what? He hasn't played well as a forward at AFL level. He doesn't lead hard enough - sure as certain doesn't hit the logos - and drops too many marks.

I think Bevo has played Boyd in absolutely the right position...the problem has been he is injured/unavailable ALL THE TIME so hasn't gotten any continuity (hence confidence) with his footy.

Will the new rules help or hinder his ability to play forward?

The comment I have heard repeated is that forwards at TAC cup level that dominate sometimes don’t come on because when they hit AFL everything is zoned and they end up getting double teamed etc. (as opposed to the more open TAC cup model). I’d like to hope that it will, at times, open the forwardline up more and allow the forwards an opportunity to lead up more often.

[mjp]

Is he an AFL ruckman though? He's decent at it but as much as you don't see him as a forward I dont see him becoming a top flight ruckman.

No - that's not it. I don't NOT see him as a forward...all I am saying is that Boyd is continually 'held up' as the example when people talk about Bevo playing people in the 'wrong' positions. And his best game as a ruckman (2016 GF) is SO FAR above his best game as a forward it isn't funny.

Whether you believe he could be/should be more effective as a forward than he is as a ruckman if he was only given the chance is neither here nor there...

[comrade]

Is he an AFL ruckman though? He's decent at it but as much as you don't see him as a forward I dont see him becoming a top flight ruckman. He's competitive but nothing special. We gave up on him as a key forward way too early in his career after trading for him as a key forward and paying him to be that. The Cats didn't give up on Hawkins as a key forward as quickly as Bevo did with Boyd.
We've stuffed around with part timers because we've typically not had enough depth at the position so I hope we give both Boyd and Schache the chace to become key fowards for us more than having them spend the majority of time in tbe ruck.

I know this is harsh but IMHO Boyd isn't really an AFL level ruckman, it's just he's a better ruckman than he is a key forward.

[jeemak]

It's an interesting discussion surrounding Boyd, each perspective presented has merit depending on how you view him as a player.

I'm probably in the camp that suggests he'll become the rarest of players - the second ruck who can give you 5-8 minutes a quarter, but who can also be relied upon to hit the scoreboard every game.

How we get him there is up for debate. I think partially out of necessity we've played him in the ruck, but I also think the coach believes this is the best way to develop his fitness, resilience and confidence. I agree that we need to give him time forward to ensure he develops his forward craft, but without continuity in physical and mental health doing so to date in all likelihood would have hampered his development further - not least because we have been moving the ball so poorly these past couple of seasons.

If we can get him fit, keep him fit, and benefit from plenty of good form and rucking hours from both English and Trengove, I think Boyd will get sufficient time forward with better supply, and start to develop into the second ruck I think he can be.

[The Adelaide Connection]

One of the problems Tom has is that he is not a dominant forward yet and, as such, doesn't get the dominant forward umpiring treatment.

I am sure we have all seen the farcically blatant wy he gets manhandled, blocked, held back/down, pushed under the ball, chopped, etc. in almost every contest he makes and mostly it goes unnoticed.

It is a hindrance that (probably) most developing forwards go through on their way to becoming a Riewoldt or a Franklin (where the umpire now seems to expect that you are going to be impeded and will jump at shadows in your favour) and he will have to work through it. But how do you work through it and develop if you aren't getting minutes and only get the odd contest?

[Dry Rot]

FWIW, keep an eye on Sweet.

Plays the same role as Boyd and from all reports, isn't going die wondering being just a rookie/VFL player.

Best of all, he likes cracking heads.

[GVGjr]

No - that's not it. I don't NOT see him as a forward...all I am saying is that Boyd is continually 'held up' as the example when people talk about Bevo playing people in the 'wrong' positions. And his best game as a ruckman (2016 GF) is SO FAR above his best game as a forward it isn't funny.

Whether you believe he could be/should be more effective as a forward than he is as a ruckman if he was only given the chance is neither here nor there...
So you think it's the move of Boyd into the ruck that has been the catalyst for Bevo being seen as the nutty professor with regards to him playing the players out of position?

Lets have a look at some recent arrivals.

Trengove trains as a foward and to rotate into the ruck and yet spends a fair chunk of the season as a key defender before returning to that role. Good reasons for that to happen though.

Crozier mainly plays as a forward for Fremantle , eventually settles in very well with us as a skillful defender.

Lynch mainly plays in the VFL as a defender and when he gets a bit of an extended run at it in the seniors its as a half foward.

Naughton, Richards, JJ , Wood and Adams were all tried forward despite all of them seeing themselves as defenders.

I think I was one of a small group that wasn't critical of him for making those moves because in the main it was forced on him due to having an imbalanced list. I do not get his views on the ruck though because having the likes of Jong, Dunkley and Bontempelli taking a turn in the ruck just doesn't gel with me.

Outside of the ruck rotations I think Bevo does a good job at shuffling players around as coaches of struggling teams need to do as they search for the winning formula. I think its more out of frustration after a loss that Bevo cops some criticism for playing the players in new roles and while I agree that Boyd so frequently in tbe ruck is the obvious call out the reasons why I challenge that move is more about giving Boyd a chance to become a good forward more than the move itself.

Bevo talked up the need for players to be versatile and if you look at nearly all the the players we recently recruited the common theme made by Power was the versatility nearly each of the of players offered. We traded for Duryea who mainly recently played foward for the Hawks and we see him as a defender. Lloyd is a forward but of course we also see him rotating through the midfield. All the draftees offer us something in multiple positions.

The Bevo mantra of versatility is something very ingrained at the club and it doesn't just stop with Tom Boyd.

[Mofra]

I have to disagree on this. In my opinion we haven't really given him enough of a chance to establish himself as a forward. If he is fit and with the very likely scenario that English and Trengove will be the preferred ruckman I'm hoping that Boyd spend the majority of his time up forward. If that doesn't work then fine I'll concede he has to become a ruckman but lets give him that chance.
With English and Trengove playing ruck and spending time forward, Schache plays the higher marking forward role and Boyd is in the VFL. We just can't play all four.

[Mofra]

Will the new rules help or hinder his ability to play forward?

The comment I have heard repeated is that forwards at TAC cup level that dominate sometimes don’t come on because when they hit AFL everything is zoned and they end up getting double teamed etc. (as opposed to the more open TAC cup model). I’d like to hope that it will, at times, open the forwardline up more and allow the forwards an opportunity to lead up more often.
That may well help Schache and hinder Boyd. Schache looks a natural leading forward who struggles with congestion. Boyd just doesn't cover the required ground as a KPF and even if his contested marking was good enough (it isn't) the reality is 'elite' contested marking players in the AFL these days are overwhelmingly defenders taking 2-3 per game. The pack-marking forwards have largely been consigned to history in lieu of forward systems where movement is required by all six players to try and free up one forward to mark on the lead.

[GVGjr]

With English and Trengove playing ruck and spending time forward, Schache plays the higher marking forward role and Boyd is in the VFL. We just can't play all four.

Wasn't that roughly the plan last year to have Boyd, Schache and Wood as the 3 marking forwards with Roughead or English iin the ruck?
Given Trengove's versatility and ability to play in the back half I think all 4 'could' play but I get your point.

[mjp]

Trengove trains as a foward and to rotate into the ruck and yet spends a fair chunk of the season as a key defender before returning to that role. Good reasons for that to happen though.

Crozier mainly plays as a forward for Fremantle , eventually settles in very well with us as a skillful defender.

Lynch mainly plays in thd VFL as a defender and when he gets a bit of an extended run at it in the seniors its as a half foward.

Naughton, Richards, JJ , Wood and Adams were all tried forward despite all of them seeing themselves as defenders.

I guess my comment would be "that's more like it". What I have been saying is the whole 'Bevo plays guys out of position' thing has been done to death...tell me WHO YOU MEAN (and it better not be Boyd)!

The guys you have referenced above:

1/. Trengove. Always played his best footy as a ruckman (which I commented on A LOT when we recruited him) and was always going to be happiest in this role. Trying to get a 27yo who has NEVER been an effective forward to play as a key forward seemed pretty dumb to me...happy to say that playing him as anything other than a ruckman doesn't make any sense to me ALTHOUGH he has been 'OK' as a key defender in the past...

The whole Tregove in the ruck issue I am sure had me saying mid-season that we had a whole heap of guys happiest/playing their best footy in the ruck (Boyd, Rough, Trengove, English, Campbell etc) but only one REAL position for them...yet they were all nominally in our 'best' 22.

2/. Crozier played his BEST footy for Freo at the back end of 2017 as a half back. Playing him anywhere else seemed crazy to me as Freo had spent countless hours/coaching $ trying to make him (a first round draft pick I think) into an outside mid/high half forward without success...so playing him back was playing him in his best spot...as Bulldogs supporters, none of us knew this 'cos we never watched Freo play and only remembered that back in his 18's days he was a forward. I live in Perth and have Freo rammed down my neck which is how I knew he was playing good footy in the back half.

3/. Lynch started at AFL level in the backline. The club needed to make a decision on him for 2019 and beyond so seeing if he could fill multiple roles made complete sense...no issue with throwing him around after he had played a few games back and shown he wasn't a completely hopeless case.

4/. Wood should NEVER had been moved forward. This was a really flawed idea. BUT. Once he was moved down there, to abandon a pre-season of planning after a couple of games seemed equally flawed (but I guess at times there is such a thing as sunk cost and you just need to move on).

5/. JJ and Richards should be able to to roll between half forward, wing and half back - with occasional stints inside the game - if they are any good at all. The JJ stuff is frustrating to me but more about JJ than about Bevo. He just needs to play better and have a little bit more 'strength' about his match day persona.

6/. I never understood the move of Naughton - a first year player doing his best to make his way should have just been left in the role where he was most comfortable. I think it WAS correct to try Adams at the other end though...what did we had to lose? This is exactly what you do with 25 year old mature agers...you chuck different challenges at them and see if they are REALLY worth persisting with or if they are ultimately limited players who you are better off finding replacements for. It was obvious after 2 weeks that Naughton was a better player than Adams...why not see if Adams has the ability to play forward and would therefore be a valuable swingman in the future rather than leaving him to play CHB for Footscray?

What else? Bevo likes versatility - but I think he harps on this so often to take away the excuses that players in struggling teams so often use...ultimately, players play and coaches coach. Wherever they are put on the whiteboard (and do positions even exist in 2019) the PLAYERS need to take responsibility for establishing strong, positive starting points and beating their opposition number to the contest...footy hasn't changed in that sense. Further, whether they start at half-forward or half back doesn't impact on any decisions they make/skill execution with the ball in hand...

[Hotdog60]

@GVGjr and @mjp I've enjoyed your conversation/debate over the last few posts it's been entertaining reading your thoughts.
It will be interesting in Boyd 's case how his game goes with the new rules in place. But if I understand the rules right he will only have some freedom early from a stoppage and its business as usual during the game.

[GVGjr]

@GVGjr and @mjp I've enjoyed your conversation/debate over the last few posts it's been entertaining reading your thoughts.
It will be interesting in Boyd 's case how his game goes with the new rules in place. But if I understand the rules right he will only have some freedom early from a stoppage and its business as usual during the game.

We can all have differring opinions and I'd like to think MJP and I are capable of debating any differences in the manner we have that hopefully encourages others to join in.

I don't mind players being shuffled around especially when a team is playing poorly so I'm not generally against Bevo trying that although I forgot to mention in an earlier post Biggs to the forward line for a couple of games was another head scratcher.
I just think that Boyd deserves a chance to make it in the position we recruited him to play and especially given the amount of money we paid him to do it.

He has to take his turn in the ruck but lets not try and turn him into the 1st ruck until we give him another season

[Bulldog Joe]

One thing I see with the new ruck rule (or is it simply the removal of the stop Luke Darcy rule), is that teams will need to play a competitive ruckman.

Putting a Jong/Dunkley against a Grundy/Gawn will simply have the ruckman take clean possession and deliver to advantage.

[mjp]

It will make no difference. The ruckman kicking the ball away will still be under pressure and he will be kicking to an outnumbered forward group on most occasions...

[Bulldog Joe]

It will make no difference. The ruckman kicking the ball away will still be under pressure and he will be kicking to an outnumbered forward group on most occasions...

Will he?

I would expect the ruckman to handball off a lot to a running mid and delivering forward before the outnumber can occur inside 50. If he can get into the hands of a good user this should generate a lot of scores.

[Mofra]

Will he?

I would expect the ruckman to handball off a lot to a running mid and delivering forward before the outnumber can occur inside 50. If he can get into the hands of a good user this should generate a lot of scores.
If it's from a centre clearance the kicker will be delivering the ball into pure congestion, 12 players all in the F50 arc.

It will be interesting to see how it all goes. One tall to 'contest' and 5 players who are all capable at ground level might prove to be the most effective forwardline under the new rules.

[Bulldog Joe]

If it's from a centre clearance the kicker will be delivering the ball into pure congestion, 12 players all in the F50 arc.

It will be interesting to see how it all goes. One tall to 'contest' and 5 players who are all capable at ground level might prove to be the most effective forwardline under the new rules.

The players in the forward 50 will have abundant space to lead into. Surely a good ball user will be able to pinpoint a pass.

[mjp]

The players in the forward 50 will have abundant space to lead into. Surely a good ball user will be able to pinpoint a pass.

It might happen once per round (out of the 9 games). This is honestly not a big deal...MORE ruckman will try it as the fear of a free kick has been taken away but most often they will hack it forward.

[GVGjr]

If it's from a centre clearance the kicker will be delivering the ball into pure congestion, 12 players all in the F50 arc.

It will be interesting to see how it all goes. One tall to 'contest' and 5 players who are all capable at ground level might prove to be the most effective forwardline under the new rules.

The Richmond model (which I think they copied off us) of having smaller contested ball winners up forward is gaining more strength.
Adelaide has a taller set-up that could buck that trend

[whythelongface]

I am in the camp that believes Boyd's best position is in the ruck. He was brilliant around the ground in the GF and was able to swing the game our way. Understanding that he has not reached these heights since and therefore the thinking behind him playing as our FF. We also have Trengove, English and Sweet as rucks thus i feel Boyd will play a ruck/ FF with more time spent in the Fwd 50. Noting that he is only 23 and will continue to develop in both roles.

Personally i think he will develop into our leading ruckman in the next two to three years. He seems to best take marks in packs either leading to the ball or at an angle which to me suggests playing around the ground suits this style. In saying that if he is able to develop as a FF it will probably be more beneficial for the team as we clearly lack a dominant key fwd (with Schache still developing).

[Mofra]

The Richmond model (which I think they copied off us) of having smaller contested ball winners up forward is gaining more strength.
Adelaide has a taller set-up that could buck that trend
I think Richmond's model was more necessity than design, with Grigg playing tall. They will play at least two genuine talls with Lynch added to the mix.

[Mofra]

I am in the camp that believes Boyd's best position is in the ruck. He was brilliant around the ground in the GF and was able to swing the game our way. Understanding that he has not reached these heights since and therefore the thinking behind him playing as our FF. We also have Trengove, English and Sweet as rucks thus i feel Boyd will play a ruck/ FF with more time spent in the Fwd 50. Noting that he is only 23 and will continue to develop in both roles.

Personally i think he will develop into our leading ruckman in the next two to three years. He seems to best take marks in packs either leading to the ball or at an angle which to me suggests playing around the ground suits this style. In saying that if he is able to develop as a FF it will probably be more beneficial for the team as we clearly lack a dominant key fwd (with Schache still developing).
2016 was virtually a different era though - the third man up rule helped cover a multitude of deficiencies in Roughead & Boyd's ruckwork. It's no coincidence that both haven;t performed anywhere near 2016 levels since the change of rules.

English is the future, and with the new congestion rule many teams seem set to play two rucks with one who can spend time forward. Melbourne just nabbed Pruess to partner Gawn, Port grabbed Lycett to partner Ryder, etc.
Right now Trengove and English look set to be our two with Schache a lock for the leading forward role. Taking into account his interrupted pre-season Boyd is not even a lock for our best 22 this year let alone first ruck.

[mjp]

...many teams seem set to play two rucks with one who can spend time forward. Melbourne just nabbed Pruess to partner Gawn, Port grabbed Lycett to partner Ryder, etc.


This is just copy cat footy. West Coast win with 2x rucks, now everyone wants 2x rucks.

Running players win games...Lycett is useful as he gets the ball. Preuss is not 'cos he doesn't.

There isn't really a congestion rule yet...and the bail-out kick from full-back (which needs ruck targets) is no longer as useful as the goal-square has become an irrelevance...

[The Adelaide Connection]

This is just copy cat footy. West Coast win with 2x rucks, now everyone wants 2x rucks.

Running players win games...Lycett is useful as he gets the ball. Preuss is not 'cos he doesn't.

There isn't really a congestion rule yet...and the bail-out kick from full-back (which needs ruck targets) is no longer as useful as the goal-square has become an irrelevance...

I think you will still need the ruck targets, they will just be 10-15 metres further back. They don’t have to do the kick it to themselves thing now, but the reality is there will still be a man on the mark so, more often than not, is there going to be that much of a differential in metres gained from kick-ins?

[mjp]

Well...we've been practicing this rule.

With no goal-square as soon as the goal crosses the line you can basically pick up the spare footy and go...the man on the mark (who has to be 5m back) is just not in play.

This is a BIG change to the game - I know it seems trivial when you read about it, in practice it makes a big difference to the speed a ball leaves the zone. The 'down the line' player will be needed for kicks and free kicks from the pockets (or the goal-square of course) but this is usually a simple numbers battle around the bail-out kick and all the team with the ball is 'really' expecting is a boundary throw in 60m from goal (aka get it the hell out of here, reset and live to fight another day).

[Twodogs]

Well...we've been practicing this rule.

With no goal-square as soon as the goal crosses the line you can basically pick up the spare footy and go...the man on the mark (who has to be 5m back) is just not in play.

This is a BIG change to the game - I know it seems trivial when you read about it, in practice it makes a big difference to the speed a ball leaves the zone. The 'down the line' player will be needed for kicks and free kicks from the pockets (or the goal-square of course) but this is usually a simple numbers battle around the bail-out kick and all the team with the ball is 'really' expecting is a boundary throw in 60m from goal (aka get it the hell out of here, reset and live to fight another day).

What's a 'down the line' player? A tall forward we can use as bail out option?

[EasternWest]

What's a 'down the line' player? A tall forward we can use as bail out option?

It's your Brian Lake, Shane Mumford, Jack Watts kinda guy.

There's only three of them in the entire league.

[Axe Man]

It's your Brian Lake, Shane Mumford, Jack Watts kinda guy.

There's only three of them in the entire league.

Don't forget Jake Carlisle.

[EasternWest]

Don't forget Jake Carlisle.

How could I forget Jakey?

Four then.

[Twodogs]

And Max Gawn. Best player in the comp is Maxie!

[EasternWest]

And Max Gawn. Best player in the comp is Maxie!

Say it ain't so!

[Twodogs]

Say it ain't so!

It's not five? All Maxed out huh?

[Axe Man]

It's not five? All Maxed out huh?

Either you know something the rest of us don't or you've missed the joke?

[mjp]

What's a 'down the line' player? A tall forward we can use as bail out option?

It's usually a ruckman or tall forward who has pushed down to provide a contest for that 'long, down the line' kick out of defence that players do when they:

a/. Don't have the skill/game-sense/balls to hit a short target in space.
b/. Have been pinned in the defensive zone for a while and just kick it as far and wide as they can to make it someone elses problem.
c/. Have been delayed by the umpires and literally all attacking options have been taken away.

[Twodogs]

It's usually a ruckman or tall forward who has pushed down to provide a contest for that 'long, down the line' kick out of defence that players do when they:

a/. Don't have the skill/game-sense/balls to hit a short target in space.
b/. Have been pinned in the defensive zone for a while and just kick it as far and wide as they can to make it someone elses problem.
c/. Have been delayed by the umpires and literally all attacking options have been taken away.

Thanks Mike.

[mjp]

Thanks Mike.

Should have added d/.:

Are a Matthew Suckling type who wants to show off how far he can kick the ball even though it doesn't really help the team all that much.

(Though to be fair, I thought he was a good player for us in 2018).

[Twodogs]

Should have added d/.:

Are a Matthew Suckling type who wants to show off how far he can kick the ball even though it doesn't really help the team all that much.

(Though to be fair, I thought he was a good player for us in 2018).

Suckling looks like he doesn't care how he kicks the ball sometimes but I've figured out that's just his kicking technique. He goes with the soccer goalie type with the wide sweep of his arm and then dropping the ball from outside the area that most players drop it from. I almost lost my shit the first time I saw him do it but my teenager explained it to me!

[Bulldog Revolution]

Should have added d/.:

Are a Matthew Suckling type who wants to show off how far he can kick the ball even though it doesn't really help the team all that much.

(Though to be fair, I thought he was a good player for us in 2018).

Id be interested to see whether you felt the same criticisms of Eagleton were fair?

Id agree - some of Suckers 2018 footy was among the best of his career

[Cyberdoggie]

One of the problems Tom has is that he is not a dominant forward yet and, as such, doesn't get the dominant forward umpiring treatment.

I am sure we have all seen the farcically blatant wy he gets manhandled, blocked, held back/down, pushed under the ball, chopped, etc. in almost every contest he makes and mostly it goes unnoticed.

It is a hindrance that (probably) most developing forwards go through on their way to becoming a Riewoldt or a Franklin (where the umpire now seems to expect that you are going to be impeded and will jump at shadows in your favour) and he will have to work through it. But how do you work through it and develop if you aren't getting minutes and only get the odd contest?

He's not a good forward because he has no idea about body positioning and how to use his body to get space. He just jumps for the ball with stiff hands, it's no wonder he hasn't set the world on fire.
I can't understand how he could be so highly rated as a junior without those basic skills. I'm guessing he was just so much bigger than everyone else that he didn't have to use them.

[The Adelaide Connection]

He's not a good forward because he has no idea about body positioning and how to use his body to get space. He just jumps for the ball with stiff hands, it's no wonder he hasn't set the world on fire.
I can't understand how he could be so highly rated as a junior without those basic skills. I'm guessing he was just so much bigger than everyone else that he didn't have to use them.

But it is a chicken or the egg argument in my opinion. Is it a case of “not a good forward” or are his positioning and timing etc. out because he is so heavily impeded?

I tend to think it is the latter (and lack of opportunity to grow and work through it via forward minutes). I think he needs consistent time in the forward line to try to work through it and maybe we need to jump around to the umpires boss with some edits ala Clarkson.

[bornadog]

But it is a chicken or the egg argument in my opinion. Is it a case of “not a good forward” or are his positioning and timing etc. out because he is so heavily impeded?

I tend to think it is the latter (and lack of opportunity to grow and work through it via forward minutes). I think he needs consistent time in the forward line to try to work through it and maybe we need to jump around to the umpires boss with some edits ala Clarkson.

One of the things I see about Tom in the forward line is we give him no chance as he is always crowded by lots of opposition players around him. How does that happen?

When was the last time you remember a completely open forward line with Tom one out with his opponent?

We move the ball so slowly sometimes, giving the opposition lots of time to run back and flood which means our forwards don't get a chance. We then proceed to just bomb the ball in and none of the forwards have a chance.

I would like to see quicker ball movement and some precise passing into the forward line. I want to see Boyd leading out and being hit on the chest, and if a spoil comes then some small guys mopping up.

If we do have a flooded forward line, then it is time Boyd used his big frame.

[Ghost Dog]

Boyd not playing forward adds to the argument.

I think the “out of position” thing is overdone too, but a couple of high profile moves have built it into folklore.

Matty Boyd. Played out of position and seemed to go well.
Seem to recall being pillored by Chops on here once for suggestion Liam Picken would make a good forward. Which he was in Hamilton.

[Mofra]

Matty Boyd. Played out of position and seemed to go well.
Seem to recall being pillored by Chops on here once for suggestion Liam Picken would make a good forward. Which he was in Hamilton.
3 goals in the GF says a fair bit.

I remember him curling one through from 45m on the boundary back in his first or second year when he was playing as a tagger. That won me over, the guy can play.

[Testekill]

3 goals in the GF says a fair bit.

I remember him curling one through from 45m on the boundary back in his first or second year when he was playing as a tagger. That won me over, the guy can play.

I remember in his first season where Richmond threw Deledio onto the HBF to break the tag and Picken proceeded to kick two goals against him.

[Twodogs]

I remember in his first season where Richmond threw Deledio onto the HBF to break the tag and Picken proceeded to kick two goals against him.

Yep I remember that too.