THE SIX TEAMS TERRY WALLACE "DOESN'T RATE" IN 2019 - we are one of them

[bornadog]

link (https://www.sen.com.au/news/2019/02/12/the-six-teams-terry-wallace-doesnt-rate-in-2019/)

With the season getting closer and closer, Terry Wallace has broken the 18 AFL teams into groups: “don’t rate”, “trust”, “improve in 2019” and “unsure of them in 2019”.

Starting with the teams the Australian football Hall of Famer doesn’t rate/trust, Wallace has said the following.

“I don’t rate the following sides,” Wallace told SEN Afternoons.

“There’s six of them, but it doesn’t mean they’ll finish in the bottom six, I just don’t trust them so I’m not going with them.

“I don’t rate Gold Coast.

“Clearly they’re down and out with senior players.

“I don’t rate (Carlton) yet.

“I think they will be an improving side, but I don’t rate them yet.

“I don’t rate Fremantle, even with the inclusions of the bigger blokes coming in, I’m not sure they can get enough supply to the bigger blokes to make the leap they believe they can.

“They’re flaky so I don’t trust them.

“I don’t trust St Kilda. I don’t think their list is as good as the others. I’m worried about their rucks and some of the key position players.

“I don’t trust the Western Bulldogs. I don’t trust their big blokes. I think their run off half back is very good, but I don’t trust their spine and what they’re going to have in the ruck.”

“And I don’t trust Port Adelaide.

“I just think they’re a flaky group and they’ve had a couple of key players leave.

“They’ve got some good kids in, but they’re kids and I don’t trust Port Adelaide.”

Which team will finish highest on the ladder of this group in 2019?

[GVGjr]

I heard Plough mention our lack of rucks and taller players were his concern. He had high praise for English but that he will need time to develop.

[Rocket Science]

Well, he makes a fairly sensible point.

The counter-point being that most of the big blokes he doesn't trust have healthy scope for improvement and will have every opportunity to trot it out this year.

English
Schache
Cordy
Naughton
Young

Lets revisit the conversation with Plough in a year.

[bornadog]

Well, he makes a fairly sensible point.

The counter-point being that most of the big blokes he doesn't trust have healthy scope for improvement and will have every opportunity to trot it out this year.

English
Schache
Cordy
Naughton
Young

Lets revisit the conversation with Plough in a year.

I think this is our weakness.

We are relying on a bunch of guys no older than 21 years old, and we know big blokes take awhile to mature.

We really need Tommy Boyd, but it is not looking good.

[Dancin' Douggy]

I think this is our weakness.

We are relying on a bunch of guys no older than 21 years old, and we know big blokes take awhile to mature.

We really need Tommy Boyd, but it is not looking good.

what's the latest with Big Tom. Got some inside info Bornadog?

[bornadog]

what's the latest with Big Tom. Got some inside info Bornadog?

All I know is his back is bad and he has virtually done no preseason training. NO date set for his return, so I am writing him off at this stage, at least for half the season.

[Axe Man]

All I know is his back is bad and he has virtually done no preseason training. NO date set for his return, so I am writing him off at this stage, at least for half the season.

Where did you hear that? The report on the club website said he has had good continuity in running but unable to progress to footy loads, whatever that means. I don't think that he has done virtually no training, he's just on a modified program. Certainly it seems unlikely we will see him early in the season though.

[Rocket Science]

I think this is our weakness.

We are relying on a bunch of guys no older than 21 years old, and we know big blokes take awhile to mature.

We really need Tommy Boyd, but it is not looking good.

Aye, if the bulk of those blokes can't kick on as regular contributors we're back to shuffling deckchairs again, and it's not unrealistic to suggest they'll need more than a season to do it, particularly English and Young.

Our big bloke depth really is precarious, again. If Boyd can salvage a chunk of the season, and crucially STAY on the park, it'd be helpful but I'm beginning to think we need to start planning for life after big Tom. Another conversation to revisit in a year.

[G-Mo77]

We've lost trust from almost everybody in the football world and there is only one way to get it back, winning. Sadly I don't think it will happen that often anytime soon.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I gotta admit. Whilst I'm Bullish about our medium to long term - providing we manage things well - I too, to use Plough's vernacular, don't 'trust' us. And for similar reason he has stated, which I posted here last week.

Our ruck unit at full strength is light on experience and we are already one down in Boyd.
So English and Trengove are our starting ruck corp; with Schache to provide a few minutes coverage. Then the untried rookie Sweet.
That concerns me.

Naughton is solid; but lets remember he is only a 2nd year player.
Schache, whilst showing signs, is still inexperienced and would need to show exponential improvement this year to make a pivotal difference.

So that's a serious ? mark on our talls.

Then there is the ever present elephant in the room....we have been deplorable at efficiently entering our forward 50, as well as then converting our chances for a number of years - pre dating and including 2016.

[Mofra]

I gotta admit. Whilst I'm Bullish about our medium to long term - providing we manage things well - I too, to use Plough's vernacular, don't 'trust' us. And for similar reason he has stated, which I posted here last week.

Our ruck unit at full strength is light on experience and we are already one down in Boyd.
So English and Trengove are our starting ruck corp; with Schache to provide a few minutes coverage. Then the untried rookie Sweet.
That concerns me.

Naughton is solid; but lets remember he is only a 2nd year player.
Schache, whilst showing signs, is still inexperienced and would need to show exponential improvement this year to make a pivotal difference.

So that's a serious ? mark on our talls.

Then there is the ever present elephant in the room....we have been deplorable at efficiently entering our forward 50, as well as then converting our chances for a number of years - pre dating and including 2016.
I agree with all that, I'm just wondering if we would have taken an experienced tall from the VFL (e.g. Corbett) if Carlton & the Suns didn't have pre-listing access to mature talent?

Yes Carlton traded away theirs for picks (a la Shane McAdam to Adelaide) but weren't their whispers pre-draft we were looking at Corbett?
Sam Collins might have been a consideration but he's slow and we already have a slow by foot back up in Sid.

[mjp]

Yeah. Whatever.

I read the link but it doesn't really say who he DOES trust. Going into 2018, you would have said West Coast couldn't be trusted either - particularly without Natanui...and that worked out OK. You would have 100% said that Collingwood couldn't be trusted - but somehow DeGoey and Stephenson stood up in the forward half and helped turn things around.

Our midfield/running power is very impressive and we are going to be a tough out for most sides. You could say that the guys don't deserve anyones trust after their performances in 2017/2018 OR you could take the attitude that there are is a large chunk of the list that has shown the ability to put together consecutive, positive performances in high pressure situations AWAY from the 'Dome.

We are in for a very, very good season. There will be a media commentator out there somewhere who jumps on board soon and will look like a genius after round 12. Most of them are more determined NOT to look like a donkey than they are to be bold...

[Topdog]

I dont mind it, he isnt saying that we will be bottom 6 or even miss the finals just purely that he cannot trust us so wont back us in.

[GVGjr]

I dont mind it, he isnt saying that we will be bottom 6 or even miss the finals just purely that he cannot trust us so wont back us in.

100% correct, he's just calling out that he doesn't believe we have the depth and quality with our KP players and that too much is left to the likes of Naughton, English and Schache who aren't experienced

It's a fair question to ask (I've asked it myself) and I'm sure he will be rapt for us if we perform well.

[Mofra]

100% correct, he's just calling out that he doesn't believe we have the depth and quality with our KP players and that too much is left to the likes of Naughton, English and Schache who aren't experienced

It's a fair question to ask (I've asked it myself) and I'm sure he will be rapt for us if we perform well.
Pretty sure his kids are dogs fans and he's mentioned more than once he likes to see us doing well.

He helped change our culture as coach and won two B&Fs for us as a player, I certainly think he's a welcome figure at the club.

[bornadog]

Pretty sure his kids are dogs fans and he's mentioned more than once he likes to see us doing well.

He helped change our culture as coach and won two B&Fs for us as a player, I certainly think he's a welcome figure at the club.

Life Member.

[GVGjr]

Pretty sure his kids are dogs fans and he's mentioned more than once he likes to see us doing well.

He helped change our culture as coach and won two B&Fs for us as a player, I certainly think he's a welcome figure at the club.

I went to an East West function a couple of years back (and I met WOOF member Josie) and Plough made his first appearance at a club function since his departure. It was sad to think that he didn't really feel that welcome at the club before that. I was annoyed with the way he originally left us but I did have a quick chat to him at the East West night and I've typically enjoyed his media work.

I don't have an issue with how he rates our chances but like all of us I hope he's got it very wrong.

[josie]

Agree with detail of Plough’s analysis, but hey we surprised everyone in ‘15/‘16 and we can do it again. A lot has to go right-luck on injury front, our talls outdo expectations (depth not there now), rucks competitive, delivery into F50 improve out of sight, ability to keep ball I50 too, goal kicking accuracy (a lot of this possibly has to do with acute angles/delivery I50). I’m quietly optimistic we could make the 8, and who knows from there. If we just miss the 8 and look very promising that’s a pass for me considering how young our side is.

P.S. East West night is my fave footy event outside watching games. The interviews are more insightful than elsewhere (both prior and new players) and you have opportunity to meet fellow RWB diehards-all of whom are very friendly.

[Mantis]

As per mjp’s comments our depth & quality across the mid sized players is as good as anyone else’s... and will help us win a lot of games. We are going to need good seasons out of Naughton, Cordy, Schache, English and Trengove with hopefully Young able to step into the team as required if we are going to push up into the 8, but it’s not out of the question.

We are an extremely hard team to place and the ‘don’t trust’ grouping is the easy option.. but not sure it’s the right one.

[Eastdog]

Agree with detail of Plough’s analysis, but hey we surprised everyone in ‘15/‘16 and we can do it again. A lot has to go right-luck on injury front, our talls outdo expectations (depth not there now), rucks competitive, delivery into F50 improve out of sight, ability to keep ball I50 too, goal kicking accuracy (a lot of this possibly has to do with acute angles/delivery I50). I’m quietly optimistic we could make the 8, and who knows from there. If we just miss the 8 and look very promising that’s a pass for me considering how young our side is.


P.S. East West night is my fave footy event outside watching games. The interviews are more insightful than elsewhere (both prior and new players) and you have opportunity to meet fellow RWB diehards-all of whom are very friendly.


Joined the East West Club this year. Usually attend the East West Day each year and go to the annual family day at Whitten Oval. The mid year East West event from reports I’ve read sounds like a good one.

[westdog54]

As per mjp’s comments our depth & quality across the mid sized players is as good as anyone else’s... and will help us win a lot of games. We are going to need good seasons out of Naughton, Cordy, Schache, English and Trengove with hopefully Young able to step into the team as required if we are going to push up into the 8, but it’s not out of the question.

We are an extremely hard team to place and the ‘don’t trust’ grouping is the easy option.. but not sure it’s the right one.

I think its a fair enough call.

Of the five players you've named as needing good seasons, 3 of them are only 21 and two of those will need MASSIVE steps up. All 5 are more than capable but we need a lot to go right this year.

As you rightly say its not out of the question but 'don't trust' is an accurate assessment, particularly given the uncertainty around Tom Boyd's injury, JJ's delayed start to the season and the inexperience of what remains of our rucks.

[Mofra]

'Don't trust' is also a fabulous opportunity.

Nobody trusted us in 2016, and certainly not in 2015 after the October 2014 disaster. We got key players back at the right time and had players who were more desperate than skilled during the 2016 finals series.

Richmond were certainly not to be trusted in 2017, they dropped talented players in lieu of desperate ones (especially forward of the ball) which I dare say they learned from us.

Nobody trusted West Coast (some had them tipped for the spoon) and then their second rotation mids just exploded all at once.

'Not trusted' can also be read as 'room for significant improvement' and nobody does damage in the AFL system just treading water

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

100% correct, he's just calling out that he doesn't believe we have the depth and quality with our KP players and that too much is left to the likes of Naughton, English and Schache who aren't experienced

It's a fair question to ask (I've asked it myself) and I'm sure he will be rapt for us if we perform well.
Given our lack of experience in the big man department it didn’t make sense to me to allow Roughead and Campbell to go to Collingwood and North respectively. English and Schache are still a far way off in terms of experience and strength. Apart from Cordy we badly lack big men with the necessary experience. Naughton has been very good in his short career and should be a big improver.

[GVGjr]

Given our lack of experience in the big man department it didn’t make sense to me to allow Roughead and Campbell to go to Collingwood and North respectively. English and Schache are still a far way off in terms of experience and strength. Apart from Cordy we badly lack big men with the necessary experience. Naughton has been very good in his short career and should be a big improver.
I'd also factor in the doubts that should have been over Boyd's availability as well. I think we are two or even three key position players light on in terms of a better balanced list but even just one more versatile tall being recruited last year would just provide us with some depth we badly need.

[soupman]

Given our lack of experience in the big man department it didn’t make sense to me to allow Roughead and Campbell to go to Collingwood and North respectively. English and Schache are still a far way off in terms of experience and strength. Apart from Cordy we badly lack big men with the necessary experience. Naughton has been very good in his short career and should be a big improver.

Why? Whats the point of having experienced depth if you a) wont use it and b) it doesn't improve you? Thats just experience for experience sake.

Campbell was on our list all last year, has been promising in the past, is in the prime age to step up as an AFL ruck, and half the rucks ahead of him battled form or injury issues. Campbells gametime in 2018 = 0 minutes. If you aren't going to play him then there is zero reason to keep him on your list.

Roughead did play last year, but was largely ineffective. More than any of our other rucks is limited to one position, and isn't actaully very good at it anymore, is injury prone both in and out of games, and basically looked past it. Maybe he excels at Collingwood, i hope he does, but i am confident he wasn't going to be any more than a bit part player with us on minimum wage. Besides he would be our 4th choice ruck and equal standing with Roberts as a key defender.

[Mofra]

Roughead did play last year, but was largely ineffective. More than any of our other rucks is limited to one position, and isn't actaully very good at it anymore, is injury prone both in and out of games, and basically looked past it. Maybe he excels at Collingwood, i hope he does, but i am confident he wasn't going to be any more than a bit part player with us on minimum wage. Besides he would be our 4th choice ruck and equal standing with Roberts as a key defender.
Collingwood see him as a KPD moreso than a ruckman, and there's no way Roughy gets a game ahead of Naughton or Cordy or at a pinch, Morris (although I hope we don't play Moz too tall).

There's a respect aspect too - he's been a fantastic teammate and is a Premiership player so he wanted to explore other options to play senior football and we should thank him and grant him his wishes.

[GVGjr]

Why? Whats the point of having experienced depth if you a) wont use it and b) it doesn't improve you? Thats just experience for experience sake.

Campbell was on our list all last year, has been promising in the past, is in the prime age to step up as an AFL ruck, and half the rucks ahead of him battled form or injury issues. Campbells gametime in 2018 = 0 minutes. If you aren't going to play him then there is zero reason to keep him on your list.

Roughead did play last year, but was largely ineffective. More than any of our other rucks is limited to one position, and isn't actaully very good at it anymore, is injury prone both in and out of games, and basically looked past it. Maybe he excels at Collingwood, i hope he does, but i am confident he wasn't going to be any more than a bit part player with us on minimum wage. Besides he would be our 4th choice ruck and equal standing with Roberts as a key defender.


I've got a very different approach to this and believe having depth for the key positions is vital for us especially given the run of injuries we have endured possibly due to poor management or diagnosis over the last two years.

To me it's like having car, home and health insurance and while you hope you never need it but it's great to know it's there.

In my opinion we are a couple of KP players light for this season and any injuries will expose us. I think Roughy might have been a decent retention but understand he should have been allowed to go if he wanted. But knowing that there was a doubt on Boyd, and that Campbell and Roughead were leaving we really need to cast a net out to see what could be done. I'm not confident that happened.

If we run the risk but still get pinged by injuries I don't believe that is an acceptable outcome.

[G-Mo77]

1 of Roughhead or Campbell should have been kept IMO. We go in with a 21 year old kid targeted to hold down the #1 ruck position, 1 KPP out indefinitely. Our tall stocks are looking light on already and we're nowhere close to Round 1.

[hujsh]

I've got a very different approach to this and believe having depth for the key positions is vital for us especially given the run of injuries we have endured possibly due to poor management or diagnosis over the last two years.

To me it's like having car, home and health insurance and while you hope you never need it but it's great to know it's there.

In my opinion we are a couple of KP players light for this season and any injuries will expose us. I think Roughy might have been a decent retention but understand he should have been allowed to go if he wanted. But knowing that there was a doubt on Boyd, and that Campbell and Roughead were leaving we really need to cast a net out to see what could be done. I'm not confident that happened.

If we run the risk but still get pinged by injuries I don't believe that is an acceptable outcome.

The problem is Campbell was like having insurance but when you get hit by a car and go to the hospital you can't be bothered to fill in the forms to make a claim. I'd have loved a mature ruck from the state leagues, maybe Sweet is closer to the mark than we realise and can fill that hole but that's a big if.

[Mofra]

The problem is Campbell was like having insurance but when you get hit by a car and go to the hospital you can't be bothered to fill in the forms to make a claim. I'd have loved a mature ruck from the state leagues, maybe Sweet is closer to the mark than we realise and can fill that hole but that's a big if.
I'd prefer Sweet on our rookie list than Campbell on our main list. Sorry BTC, I like the guy but he just wasn't in our plans.

[Murphy'sLore]

No point keeping them on the list if you're never going to play them.

[mjp]

No point keeping them on the list if you're never going to play them.

100%. I get the bit about insurance policies - but Campbell was like a car insurance policy that you wouldn't use even if your car got smashed into and written off...you would just say, 'Oh well, I've got another smaller car over here...it might not be perfect but it's good enough for the job I need to do'...

[GVGjr]

The problem is Campbell was like having insurance but when you get hit by a car and go to the hospital you can't be bothered to fill in the forms to make a claim. I'd have loved a mature ruck from the state leagues, maybe Sweet is closer to the mark than we realise and can fill that hole but that's a big if.

I have no problem moving on Campbell or Roughead but we should have replaced one or both them during the trade period.
For many of us here it's not acceptable to use the likes of Bontempelli or Dunkley in ruck contests so I'd rather have a player or two with the bigger bodies who are trained specifically for that.

If the MC or Bevo think going in with the smaller line-up will work then great but if it doesn't then they need to be accountable for not covering it better.

[GVGjr]

I'd prefer Sweet on our rookie list than Campbell on our main list. Sorry BTC, I like the guy but he just wasn't in our plans.

We needed an upgrade to Campbell or Roughead though or at least someone capable of playing in a few positions. We've taken a risk that I think exposes the one area that I think we are as strong as any other club and that is that our big bodied mids might have to contest against genuine ruckman.

From the little I've seen of Sweet so far I'm not sure he can offer much for us in the short term

[Ghost Dog]

100%. I get the bit about insurance policies - but Campbell was like a car insurance policy that you wouldn't use even if your car got smashed into and written off...you would just say, 'Oh well, I've got another smaller car over here...it might not be perfect but it's good enough for the job I need to do'...

Like this analogy.
I feel sorry for Campbell. Clearly remember his first debut at Ballarat and he had a monster of a game. Made a losing day at a stupidly crowded venue otherwise good.
I thought he was better than the opportunities he was given.