Selection? What a cop out!!!

[mjp]

So - I had to go and calm down for a few hours after the game (my 2x whippets have still not returned to the lounge-room for fear of more furniture being upturned) - but I am reading a heap on the forum about the 'problem' today being the selection of Hayes and Young over Trengove and Lipinski.

Sorry guys and gals, but that is just abject rubbish.

Cripps and Sammy Seaton had 50 touches between them at HALF TIME. We have SENIOR PLAYERS in the midfield - yep, Bont, Macrae, Hunter etc - who continue to want things on their own terms. At some point someone had to actually lift their intensity and attack on the contest to meet that brought by the opposition.

I will acknowledge that (yet again) critical turnovers and missed goals played a huge part in the result - and there really is no excuse for the misses by Gowers and Toby (particularly when you consider the improvement shown by Casboult over the past 3 years demonstrated by that remarkable kick in the last q) but we can only go to that well so many times.

Hayes and Young had nothing to do with this. Blame the blokes in the centre square who were simply beaten to the ball in the contest...Cripps was EPIC (can I say 'I taught him that'), Seaton and Fisher (I taught him that too!) were willing lieutenants and that's how the game was won (and done).

This was about effort, concentration and willingness to run - they had it, we didn't. We have been reading our own publicity about stoppage wins and contested ball and rolled up to work today thinking it was going to be easy.

[Mantis]

With due respect the selection of the side was disgusting. Carlton play a very tall team and have players who can actually mark the thing, they aren’t Sydney who have Franklin (who isn’t strong overhead) and Reid and treacle slow team.. we didn’t have Suckling who has been immense at helping out our defence this year. Throwing Lachlan Young to the wolves will do shitloads for his confidence. Wood is a shadow of his former best, Cordy is at best a 2nd or 3rd tall and is getting exposed.

Our midfield got smashed, but why didn’t we put Dunkley on Cripps (like we did late last year, and who was quite effective), why did we put Williams and Gowers into our primary midfield rotations when Libba was sucking eggs at HF?

The lack of accountability in the midfield was there for all of us to see, but we were set up to fail given our line-up & both teams form lines.

[mjp]

With due respect the selection of the side was disgusting.

The EFFORT of the players was worse.

Wouldn't have mattered who we picked if the mids - our best players - wont compete.

[angelopetraglia]

Agree that our mids just didn’t turn up. We got absolutely smashed in there for really the first time this year.

But you can’t excuse selection. We were the youngest team picked this round. Why? We gave the Blues 20+ games on average per game and they played 11 players under 50 games. Why did we play some more mature players to replace two hardened veterans in Suckling and Duryea?

[wb_age]

The EFFORT of the players was worse.

Wouldn't have mattered who we picked if the mids - our best players - wont compete.

I don't blame the midfield for a drop in effort, you cant literally rove to the opponents tap at each centre bounce.

Tim English should not be playing until he has some gains in the weight room, been rag dolled week in week out

[G-Mo77]

I don't blame the midfield for a drop in effort, you cant literally rove to the opponents tap at each centre bounce.

Tim English should not be playing until he has some gains in the weight room, been rag dolled week in week out

He got pushed around but held up today I think he broke even on hitouts and was pretty good around the ground as well.

[SonofScray]

We showed Carlton no respect, from the selection to the siren.

Two debutants had their moments, but gifted 3 goals from direct turnovers and never looked like providing an effort that could turn the tide. Not a knock on them individually, but we didn't arm ourselves well at all. I think we saw this game a fairly soft entry to AFL footy for them, with others able to carry the burden. Burnt. Badly.

Completely conceding the ruck and asking so much of English is genuinely bat shit crazy. Far too small in the back half.

[mjp]

I don't blame the midfield for a drop in effort, you cant literally rove to the opponents tap at each centre bounce.

Tim English should not be playing until he has some gains in the weight room, been rag dolled week in week out

This is just wrong. We won the clearances vs the 'Pies and lost the hitouts by > 40.

If you have decided to blame the non-selection of Trengove - who has not played a useful game as a ruckman in our colours - then that is just a fantasy. I wish we had another ruck option but we dont. We have got people screaming for Lewis Young as the saviour down back on the game-day thread then bemoaning English getting pushed around...give me a spell.

Effort is effort. We didn't bring it.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

We showed Carlton no respect, from the selection to the siren.

Two debutants had their moments, but gifted 3 goals from direct turnovers and never looked like providing an effort that could turn the tide. Not a knock on them individually, but we didn't arm ourselves well at all. I think we saw this game a fairly soft entry to AFL footy for them, with others able to carry the burden. Burnt. Badly.

Completely conceding the ruck and asking so much of English is genuinely bat shit crazy. Far too small in the back half.

I think you'll find we gifted something like 11 or 12 goals from turnovers.

[EasternWest]

Completely conceding the ruck and asking so much of English is genuinely bat shit crazy. Far too small in the back half.

Couldn't agree with you more, and I'm not sure if you meant the double entendre or not but I dug it.

English needs a bigger body to share the load with him. And just let him play a bit of footy.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Couldn't agree with you more, and I'm not sure if you meant the double entendre or not but I dug it.

English needs a bigger body to share the load with him. And just let him play a bit of footy.

Today was one of his better performances in the ruck. He broke even at the hit outs and was decent around the ground too.
As MJP has pointed out, this falls squarely at the feet of those at the coalface. Bont, Libba, Macrae, Wallis, and the support cast of Gowers, Williams, Smith, Dunkley.

[EasternWest]

Today was one of his better performances in the ruck. He broke even at the hit outs and was decent around the ground too.


Sure. Doesn't make my point any less valid. If he rucks all year on his own he'll be ruined by the end.

I've got faith in how good he'll be, but he's still so underweight and needs some protection.

[SonofScray]

I think you'll find we gifted something like 11 or 12 goals from turnovers.

Haven't checked the stats. I counted 4 direct turnovers, ie we give them the all, that player goals. Comfortably another 5 where goal came within 5 possessions of the turnover.

[wb_age]

This is just wrong. We won the clearances vs the 'Pies and lost the hitouts by > 40.

If you have decided to blame the non-selection of Trengove - who has not played a useful game as a ruckman in our colours - then that is just a fantasy. I wish we had another ruck option but we dont. We have got people screaming for Lewis Young as the saviour down back on the game-day thread then bemoaning English getting pushed around...give me a spell.

Effort is effort. We didn't bring it.

So we break even in the clearances against the pies, imagine if we had an actual ruckman?

Rather than break even, likely won the clearances convincingly.

Also note, Trengrove is not the solution, nor Boyd, nobody on the list that fixes this issue

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

So we break even in the clearances against the pies, imagine if we had an actual ruckman?

Rather than break even, likely won the clearances convincingly.

Also note, Trengrove is not the solution, nor Boyd, nobody on the list that fixes this issue

We won the clearances.. It might not look great on the stat sheet, but English is by a long stretch not close to being our main issue right now.
Let's restrict it to 3 points
* The inability of our mids to respect and respond to our opposition mids. Likely to lead to hypertension.
* our insipid conversion...That will induce a stroke.
* our turnovers..opposition are dining out and scoring at embarrassingly easy levels from our mistakes. You think the metrics on our hit outs looks bad. Check out the scores from our turnovers... It will cause you to have an embolism.

[Hotdog60]

We won the clearances.. It might not look great on the stat sheet, but English is by a long stretch not close to being our main issue right now.
Let's restrict it to 3 points
* The inability of our mids to respect and respond to our opposition mids. Likely to lead to hypertension.
* our insipid conversion...That will induce a stroke.
* our turnovers..opposition are dining out and scoring at embarrassingly easy levels from our mistakes. You think the metrics on our hit outs looks bad. Check out the scores from our turnovers... It will cause you to have an embolism.

I've got to stop watching! I already have hypertension...….

[wb_age]

Where are you guys getting your stats from?
We lost the clearances against the blues and also the magpies.

[The Pie Man]

We showed Carlton no respect, from the selection to the siren.
.

This sentence sums it up for me.

Might be a long bow to suggest selection/positioning has an effect on attitude / performance but they certainly played like it did. Yes, the mids got smashed & we then ask too much of a Cordy to withstand the flood our midfield couldn’t contain.

Playing a Lewis Young / keeping Lib in the centre may not have changed much, but at least we would’ve made more sense which may have influenced urgency at the contest.

It’s been an embarrassing few days for the club

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Where are you guys getting your stats from?
We lost the clearances against the blues and also the magpies.

Yeah we got reamed clearances. That is on our mids not English. He got his hand to the ball more than he has done in the last 2 weeks xombined. Our mids however did not respond perhaps MJP can more eloquently explain the cause of their deficiencies in this regard.

[boydogs]

When you lose to Carlton by 44 points, the first team to concede 100 points to them in 3 years, there's plenty of blame to go around

[Sedat]

Reckon our mids just thought it was all going to happen and were surprised by the ferocity of Carlton's mids in at the coalface. Haven't seen our midfield group as a collective so badly smashed in a long time.

With regard to team selection, I don't think we helped ourselves today especially down back. Why would we offer Trengove a 4 year deal and also extend contracts for Lewis Young and Roberts in particular, if we aren't going to play any of them in key defensive posts against an opposition with 3 tall marking targets? It's a failure of selection or list management, take your pick.

[hujsh]

When you lose to Carlton by 44 points, the first team to concede 100 points to them in 3 years, there's plenty of blame to go around

True, no single stuff up or group of players under performing can explain such an event. It takes many people contributing across multiple areas to pull off something like this.

[bornadog]

Reckon our mids just thought it was all going to happen and were surprised by the ferocity of Carlton's mids in at the coalface. Haven't seen our midfield group as a collective so badly smashed in a long time.

With regard to team selection, I don't think we helped ourselves today especially down back. Why would we offer Trengove a 4 year deal and also extend contracts for Lewis Young and Roberts in particular, if we aren't going to play any of them in key defensive posts against an opposition with 3 tall marking targets? It's a failure of selection or list management, take your pick.

Casboult was a late inclusion, so we probably thought we could handle the two talls, plus Curnow.

Carlton actually had the lowest marks inside 50 in the first 4 games, and somehow we believed we could stop their making - that was very wrong with our midget backline.

The first thing I posted today is exactly what MJP opened up with, we lost this game in the midfield - and that is where games are won and lost. Same against Collingwood, we were killing their mids to 3/4 time and they beat us in the last, with cont.poss, clearances and stoppages.

Carlton just worked harder than us.

[Sedat]

Casboult was a late inclusion, so we probably thought we could handle the two talls, plus Curnow.

Carlton actually had the lowest marks inside 50 in the first 4 games, and somehow we believed we could stop their making - that was very wrong with our midget backline.

The first thing I posted today is exactly what MJP opened up with, we lost this game in the midfield - and that is where games are won and lost. Same against Collingwood, we were killing their mids to 3/4 time and they beat us in the last, with cont.poss, clearances and stoppages.

Carlton just worked harder than us.
McGovern, McKay (who is leading the entire comp in contested marks this season) and either Casboult/Curnow is plenty marking power - one extra tall down back would have been mandatory today I'd have thought. So why exactly do we have fully fit Lewis Young, Roberts and Trengove on our list?

[Rocket Science]

Casboult was a late inclusion, so we probably thought we could handle the two talls, plus Curnow.

Carlton actually had the lowest marks inside 50 in the first 4 games, and somehow we believed we could stop their making - that was very wrong with our midget backline.

The first thing I posted today is exactly what MJP opened up with, we lost this game in the midfield - and that is where games are won and lost. Same against Collingwood, we were killing their mids to 3/4 time and they beat us in the last, with cont.poss, clearances and stoppages.

Carlton just worked harder than us.

Our personnel and game plan is such that you can basically say this about every game win, lose or draw.

We have one strength. Our midfield. If they're not getting it on their terms we're toast because we sure as hell don't have a plan B.

Every result this year literally hinges upon whether our mids can dominate. How often's that going to happen? Particularly if we get these bipolar demonstrations from them where maybe they're switched on or maybe they aren't?

If the application and output from your supposed position of strength is iffy from week to week, with no plan B or C, you probs ain't playing finals.

I for one welcome our top six 2019 draft pick.

[jeemak]

The Suckling and Duryea nay folk need to understand it's about what you replace them with and how that affects the team, this week we didn't replace them with guys nearly as good and it hurt us. That's to say the guys who came in cost us ultimately, but losing them didn't help.

Not selecting Trengove to help around all areas of the ground was a massive mistake. MJP, you'd know as an elite coach that having one and only one option for an entire area of the ground is completely stupid and that's what we put on show today in our defencive tall area. We also showed we had nothing in the air with the loss of Schache aside from a couple of excellent Gowers efforts that could possibly make us competitive, and once again, while he's not perfect putting Trengove there would have made that area of our game better. As an elite coach you'd know that entering a game with two of the three areas of the ground not covered with a tall option is just ****ing stupid.

And finally, the ruck. Tim English will be OK, but not having any cover for him when your midfield is completely ****ing rooted for effort is just plain stupid. Sure he broke even in stats, but when our actual engine room warriors were shitful having someone who can bash and crash and possibly help might be a good thing. As an elite coach there's no way in hell you would pull that shit mate.

Now I'm not saying you were wrong in your assessment, just possibly that you were a bit narrow with it.

[Grantysghost]

The EFFORT of the players was worse.

Wouldn't have mattered who we picked if the mids - our best players - wont compete.

Why not have both :cool: . Poor performance and poor selection. Bevo admitted the mids were "cooked" in the last quarter of the pies game, so I'm a little unsure why we didn't account for that better. Gowers and Williams ok I certainly acknowledge they tried something there that didn't work but are we that bereft of talent we couldn't replace some of our tired mids the coaches knew were spent pre game? Jong and Lipinski played well against pies.
Agree midfield was the biggest reason we lost ultimately, but to say selection is a cop out I disagree with. The senior coach is actually admitting the area of the ground that cost us the most, (the other being a midget defence in my opinion) was "cooked".

[Grantysghost]

This is just wrong. We won the clearances vs the 'Pies and lost the hitouts by > 40.

If you have decided to blame the non-selection of Trengove - who has not played a useful game as a ruckman in our colours - then that is just a fantasy. I wish we had another ruck option but we dont. We have got people screaming for Lewis Young as the saviour down back on the game-day thread then bemoaning English getting pushed around...give me a spell.

Effort is effort. We didn't bring it.

We lost the clearances v the Pies 33-26 (Centre 10-7 Stoppage 23-19)

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Do you really think so?

Yesterday looked to me that Libba, Dunkley, McClean etc all had the $?@& it’s like if you want to put those kids in the midfield ahead of me, why would I try or even give a &$@!

Yes what was dished up yesterday was what I saw last time that BMac had control of the side.

And really do you blame them?

[mjp]

Also note, Trengrove is not the solution, nor Boyd, nobody on the list that fixes this issue

So English is the problem but there is no solution?

That's awesome. I guess we should just not bother hopping the flight this week 'cos we aren't going to be any good...

We've got what we've got. Fight through it. Pretty sure that's all any of us on here want!

[mjp]

Now I'm not saying you were wrong in your assessment, just possibly that you were a bit narrow with it.

I'm happy for the selections to be criticised - but once the ball is bounced, the players need to bring effort otherwise it really doesn't matter who is playing. We didn't bring effort. It didn't matter who was playing.

All the comments around the 'can you blame them?' because selection was stupid/rookies were put in the midfield ahead of them...well, that isn't TEAM. What is it? Selfish rubbish.

Coaches coach. Players play. Allowing Sammy Seaton to have 25 in a HALF when his previous best was 27 in a GAME is simply pathetic...STAND UP!

[DOG GOD]

Carlton kicked 10.3 from our turnover
We kicked 3.9 from theirs

As much as I spewed over team selection and knew from that point that McKay would have a field day, the MC had no friggin idea when it came to team structure on the field.

Our best clearance player in libba playing more fwd than mid ....FFS
Dunkley standing beside the Carlton ruck waiting to see who he tapped it to....FFS

Don’t even get me started on the deplorable piss weak efforts of downhill skier Hunter.

[Grantysghost]

I'm happy for the selections to be criticised - but once the ball is bounced, the players need to bring effort otherwise it really doesn't matter who is playing. We didn't bring effort. It didn't matter who was playing.

All the comments around the 'can you blame them?' because selection was stupid/rookies were put in the midfield ahead of them...well, that isn't TEAM. What is it? Selfish rubbish.

Coaches coach. Players play. Allowing Sammy Seaton to have 25 in a HALF when his previous best was 27 in a GAME is simply pathetic...STAND UP!

Could we have made a coaching change to curb his influence ? I'm agreeing with you in principle. The players need to take their share of the blame. Whatever the plan before the game was wasn't working that's for sure maybe a Dunkley run with leading him to the ball ? Also Cripps you'd almost concede possession and hang out and pressure the guy he feeds it to he's unstoppable in close but handballs alot.
Players not following instructions must be so frustrating I'm surprised Bevo still has hair.

[DOG GOD]

Allowing Sammy Seaton to have 25 in a HALF when his previous best was 27 in a GAME is simply pathetic...STAND UP!

I thought that was Andy Macleod circa 1997 out there...that’s what we made PS look like.
Yep, simply pathetic.

[soupman]

Bevo admitted the mids were "cooked" in the last quarter of the pies game, so I'm a little unsure why we didn't account for that better. Gowers and Williams ok I certainly acknowledge they tried something there that didn't work but are we that bereft of talent we couldn't replace some of our tired mids the coaches knew were spent pre game?

Even more confusing is that if we were trying to address our midfield "freshness" concerns why didn't we bring in Lipinski who is playing and training to be that midfielder and instead brought in Hayes who is a half forward flanker that doesn't play the role we need to fill.

[GVGjr]

So English is the problem but there is no solution?

That's awesome. I guess we should just not bother hopping the flight this week 'cos we aren't going to be any good...

We've got what we've got. Fight through it. Pretty sure that's all any of us on here want!

That's all I want. I can handle losses, in fact you can't be a long term supporter and not have that in you, but being unorganised and not playing close to our ability is another matter.
If Bevo wants to turn the team into a 16 or 18 midfielder set-up and it works then we will all come around quickly enough

[bornadog]

We lost the clearances v the Pies 33-26 (Centre 10-7 Stoppage 23-19)

That turned around in the last quarter, up to that point we were smashing Collingwood's mids, and guess what we were in front. Their mids got on top in the last and they won.

[1eyedog]

We're not really talking about selection of its particular game though are we we are talking about a coach, coaches and MC that have spiralled into a vortex of madness and are too arrogant to change anything. My concern is that Bevo is seen as the Messiah and we will be subject to another 18 months of insanity.

[Ghost Dog]

I'm happy for the selections to be criticised - but once the ball is bounced, the players need to bring effort otherwise it really doesn't matter who is playing. We didn't bring effort. It didn't matter who was playing.

All the comments around the 'can you blame them?' because selection was stupid/rookies were put in the midfield ahead of them...well, that isn't TEAM. What is it? Selfish rubbish.

Coaches coach. Players play. Allowing Sammy Seaton to have 25 in a HALF when his previous best was 27 in a GAME is simply pathetic...STAND UP!

I see your point MJP, and am as frustrated as everyone else. But when you are an cooking teacher and have to teach English, it's fine to do it once or twice for the team but it's not sustainable under pressure. If we had only had a standard set up of our best 22, I think we would have done fine against Carlton. We need to play people to their strengths.

[Ghost Dog]

Rather see Shack in the team and not Gowers if we are going to persist with a forward. He makes better decisions.

[1eyedog]

And kicks straight, something I thought might be highly valued at the club.

[LostDoggy]

Get the feeling players are frustrated and disheartened with our goal kicking. Players work so hard to get a shot at goal only to see it pissed away by pretty much everyone bar a couple of players must be dispiriting. Watching players turn it over when the mids work so hard to get it must be dispiriting. Watching Caleb regularly get outmarked on the lastline of defence must be hard to watch.

Then to have the coach replace one of our best kicks with yet another turnover merchant in Hayes while replacing one of our few tall players with yet another flanker, to see our most experienced players replaced with debutantes when we are already too young. To see selection where only three tall players are picked and those three tall players have less than 100 games experience between them. To see poor old Dunkley playing fwd but clearly embarassed to kick at goal in front of anyone. Or watch Dunks rucking. Hows that going to work?

The players gave a half hearted performance and I can understand it. Accept it no. But understand it yes.

The list management, match day selection and position allocation is bewildering and almost looks like we are tankng - its that bad. I can understand players being pissed off.

We simply aren't giving ourselves the best chance to win.

And a side note, JT playing well in the ruck late last yr was a key factor and coincided with our team playing better. But if Bev won't pick him and would rather Dunkley rucked and run the risk of breaking English, then why on earth did Bev sign off on JT's recruitment?

[mjp]

Get the feeling players are frustrated and disheartened with our goal kicking.

100%.

Sink your free throws man!

[bornadog]

Then to have the coach replace one of our best kicks with yet another turnover merchant in Hayes

First game, bit harsh - AFL is so much faster than VFL.

[Bulldog4life]

And kicks straight, something I thought might be highly valued at the club.

Don't agree on that. In career Gowers has kicked 32 goals 25 behinds. Schache 47 goals 38 behinds. On par for accuracy.

[Doc26]

Get the feeling players are frustrated and disheartened with our goal kicking. Players work so hard to get a shot at goal only to see it pissed away by pretty much everyone bar a couple of players must be dispiriting. Watching players turn it over when the mids work so hard to get it must be dispiriting. Watching Caleb regularly get outmarked on the lastline of defence must be hard to watch.

The story of our kicking effectiveness into forward 50 and at goal has been talked about for numerous seasons under Luke’s watch. He talks about them training it and being given the tools to address it but we continue to sit at the bottom of the pack in this critical part of the game.

That Marcus, such a highly skilled and beautiful field kick, be now so terrible in front of goals speaks volumes to inadequate coaching whether in technical and/or in mental application.

It’s of no value for Bevo to keep saying in his pressers how frustrating it is. He is the Coach, and if he hasn’t got the answers to it, or his support around him are unable to help him, we simply require a more urgent response to bring in expertise that can support him.

Chris Grant has to step up now to bring in outside help in this area as there is now no excuse why our Club should continue to accept and lag at the bottom for goal scoring effectiveness year after year.

Please don’t wait until this season’s done to talk of a review, there’s simply too much at stake to accept another shoddy season in front of the sticks without having a clue how to address it.

[LostDoggy]

First game, bit harsh - AFL is so much faster than VFL.

not harsh at all Hayes was known as a ball magnet who couldn't use it at VFL level in his 100 or so games ...sound familiar?

[1eyedog]

Don't agree on that. In career Gowers has kicked 32 goals 25 behinds. Schache 47 goals 38 behinds. On par for accuracy.

Schache has been much better since crossing with us 17 11 last year. Gowers is going at 50% this year 7 7 the gap between them over the past 18 months is significant.

[Bullies]

not harsh at all Hayes was known as a ball magnet who couldn't use it at VFL level in his 100 or so games ...sound familiar? I agree Hayes has been in the system long enough. We knew what we were getting. A ready replacement for Honeychurch.

[DOG GOD]

Hayes is a “hard tryer” but the fact is our team is chock full of many just like him. Too many guys that try hard, but skill level is below par for AFL...so why was he drafted when guys like Stack (rich) wasn’t? Did we reward him for his dedication to Footscray? Coz that doesn’t cut it with me. I’m sick to death of seeing these types of guys make up the majority of our list.

Ok, he seems like a good guy, but we wanna win games, premierships, and good kicking teams are the ones who go back to back. We are nowhere near that standard, and 2017 showed that to a tee.

[Go_Dogs]

So why can't we manufacture urgency, intensity, engagement?

Players play and coaches coach - why aren't we ready when the ball is bounced? Are we having a few off weeks like Essendon the first 2 rounds,or are we a bottom 4 team with deeper issues?

What's happened with our young leaders? Why isn't anyone standing up and taking it upon themselves to influence the game with a inspirational team first effort?

Lots of questions at the moment.

[soupman]

So why aren't we ready when the ball is bounced?


This is actually a really good question. For practically Beveridges entire reign we have been terrible starters. This happened for the vast majority of 2016, much of the last two years and every round this year.

We always concede the first goal. Always.

And we often don't even have to wait long. It happened against Sydney round 1. Carlton were lining up for a set shot within 30 seconds. I think Gold Coast kickined one in the first minute. We are glacial out of the blocks, every time.

[Rocket Science]

This is actually a really good question. For practically Beveridges entire reign we have been terrible starters. This happened for the vast majority of 2016, much of the last two years and every round this year.

We always concede the first goal. Always.

And we often don't even have to wait long. It happened against Sydney round 1. Carlton were lining up for a set shot within 30 seconds. I think Gold Coast kickined one in the first minute. We are glacial out of the blocks, every time.

Speaking of concentration, you're unkindly overlooking our unique knack for conceding red-time goals too.

Melbourne's getting a lot of shit this week for being easy to play against.

We should send them a thank you gift for sparing us the same scrutiny.

At least until we find a way to embarrass ourselves against Fremantle on Saturday.

[The Adelaide Connection]

Speaking of concentration, you're unkindly overlooking our unique knack for conceding red-time goals too.

Melbourne's getting a lot of shit this week for being easy to play against.

We should send them a thank you gift for sparing us the same scrutiny.

At least until we find a way to embarrass ourselves against Fremantle on Saturday.

I think this is part of the problem. I think we need a media pummelling the likes of which Essendon, Carlton, and Melbourne have all received so far this year. If it is complacent coaches that is part of the problem, that might shake them a little. Maybe they will bring in some outside help? Apparently Carlton conducted a mini review before playing us and maybe it worked?

It would have been great if we had been given the full blowtorch treatment after Carlton. I don’t want to have to have more losses like that for it to come.

[chef]

Are we back to being irrelevant?

[G-Mo77]

Are we back to being irrelevant?

Yes we are. Media don't even want to bag us that much because we're so far off the map.

[hujsh]

Back in our natural place so the club can be strong with Richmond, Collingwood and Essendon at the top of the ladder where they belong because that's what's best for footy.

[Mofra]

not harsh at all Hayes was known as a ball magnet who couldn't use it at VFL level in his 100 or so games ...sound familiar?
Hayes' ball use was better than his peers at VFL level.

It was terrible in JLT and in the first half against Carlton but he gut runs and slowly improves. I have my doubts but not ruling a line through him until he's had more opportunity. He runs both ways which our boys could learn a thing or two from.

[soupman]

Hayes' ball use was better than his peers at VFL level.

It was terrible in JLT and in the first half against Carlton but he gut runs and slowly improves. I have my doubts but not ruling a line through him until he's had more opportunity. He runs both ways which our boys could learn a thing or two from.

I'm not writing him off. It's a big step up to AFL level and he demonstrated he has both the work rate and knowledge to get in positions to be of benefit to the team and get the ball. His disposal wasn't overly impressive but could be partly due to the added real and perceived pressure (and also not helped by lack of supporting runners or targets to kick to).

Besides you can look at someone like Tipungwuti who looked completely off the pace in his first few games at AFL level and is now playing excellent footy. Sometimes it takes a while for players to adjust.

[Danjul]

I'm not writing him off. It's a big step up to AFL level and he demonstrated he has both the work rate and knowledge to get in positions to be of benefit to the team and get the ball. His disposal wasn't overly impressive but could be partly due to the added real and perceived pressure (and also not helped by lack of supporting runners or targets to kick to).

Besides you can look at someone like Tipungwuti who looked completely off the pace in his first few games at AFL level and is now playing excellent footy. Sometimes it takes a while for players to adjust.

I agree with you. He makes good position and he had 21 possessions in a game where Bontempelli and Macrae had 24 from more game time. Excellent for a first gamer.

7 score involvements was a fine contribution. Especially when some players who had less than 7 possessions don’t have to worry about being selected the following week.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I think this is part of the problem. I think we need a media pummelling the likes of which Essendon, Carlton, and Melbourne have all received so far this year. If it is complacent coaches that is part of the problem, that might shake them a little. Maybe they will bring in some outside help? Apparently Carlton conducted a mini review before playing us and maybe it worked?

It would have been great if we had been given the full blowtorch treatment after Carlton. I don’t want to have to have more losses like that for it to come.

Honestly can it get any worse than a 44pt thumping at the hands of the worst side in the AFL? The response? One change. No review. No blowtorch. What’s it going to take then?

[DOG GOD]

Honestly can it get any worse than a 44pt thumping at the hands of the worst side in the AFL? The response? One change. No review. No blowtorch. What’s it going to take then?

Just like the last few years, complacencies abound. A review will be looked at at the end of the year, where every excuse under the sun will be swept under the carpet, and we will see a bigger, better WB side in 2020 with the same kicking deficiencies, poor skills, avge game plan, a few avge players from other clubs, and the same coaching panel slightly moved around for argument sake.