Getting Lippi with it

[Mofra]

I know our midfield focus tends to be our "big three" plus Hunter on a wing, but it's really the next level down where the situation gets interesting.

Bailey Smith is a lock, but the most interesting player here is Patrick Lipinski. Despite the likes of McLean, Wallis, and Liberatore pushing for spots Lippi is universally considered best 22. He is obviously a smart player who is a threat forward of the ball, has the tank to cover enough ground to take wing rotations, and developed his inside game last year so he goes into the centre as well. We know he's not the quickest runner around but he's demanded his spot based on performance.

How do we see his 2020 (and beyond) shaping up? If it's a decision between he and either a McLean or a Libba for a spt, is he still ahead of both?

[Axe Man]

Terry Wallace named 14 young midfielders he believes will make big improvements in 2020, it included Lipinski (and Bailey Smith). Link (https://www.zerohanger.com/wallace-names-the-14-midfielders-that-will-take-a-quantum-leap-in-2020-37672/)

If he continues on the trajectory he plotted in the second half of last season he's going to be a very important player for us.

[Eastdog]

Terry Wallace named 14 young midfielders he believes will make big improvements in 2020, it included Lipinski (and Bailey Smith). Link (https://www.zerohanger.com/wallace-names-the-14-midfielders-that-will-take-a-quantum-leap-in-2020-37672/)

If he continues on the trajectory he plotted in the second half of last season he's going to be a very important player for us.

Bailey will get even better. An unbelievable first season for him. Pat Lipinkski was really good as well with plenty of more improvement - complements our forward half very well.

[bornadog]

I think a fully fit Liberatore is ahead of Lippa, but is Libba fully fit - probably not with that knee.

Patrick really improved last year after setting up a programme with the coach to become an inside mid, then practising in the VFL till he got it right and then earned his spot for a senior recall.

When he got his chance, he showed he can play the role.

[AshMac]

Terry Wallace named 14 young midfielders he believes will make big improvements in 2020, it included Lipinski (and Bailey Smith). Link (https://www.zerohanger.com/wallace-names-the-14-midfielders-that-will-take-a-quantum-leap-in-2020-37672/)

If he continues on the trajectory he plotted in the second half of last season he's going to be a very important player for us.

But rich to be putting Caldwell and Smith in the same category. One played 2 the other 23 games for the year - doesn’t seem like a level playing field in precedence

[AshMac]

Re. Lipinski - would love to see him develop into a 70/30 forward flanker/inside mid. From memory he is a lovely kick of the ball and good at finding it

[ledge]

What about West ??

[Twodogs]

What about West ??

Good spot to be in when we are overlooking players like Rhylee.

[SonofScray]

Suspect he will end up a very valuable player for us. Always room for players that can win the footy, run the lines and kick it well. Can he get active enough on the scoreboard? That's the challenge for a lot of fringe midfielders I think, they can separate themselves from their peers by racking up goals. I think he has a good nose for goal.

[Rocket Science]

This is in no way intended as a slight, but Lipinski's our poor man's Macrae.

Clever, tireless and smart enough to utilise his ample assets over his deficiencies. That's the mark of a driven, self aware player.

We need more of his cleverness and composure around the contest. Kick on Lippy. If we've got second stringers of his ilk to defer to, we'll go alright.

[GVGjr]

I know our midfield focus tends to be our "big three" plus Hunter on a wing, but it's really the next level down where the situation gets interesting.

Bailey Smith is a lock, but the most interesting player here is Patrick Lipinski. Despite the likes of McLean, Wallis, and Liberatore pushing for spots Lippi is universally considered best 22. He is obviously a smart player who is a threat forward of the ball, has the tank to cover enough ground to take wing rotations, and developed his inside game last year so he goes into the centre as well. We know he's not the quickest runner around but he's demanded his spot based on performance.

How do we see his 2020 (and beyond) shaping up? If it's a decision between he and either a McLean or a Libba for a spt, is he still ahead of both?

This time last year Lipinski had a brilliant pre-season and had added muscle and was playing good footy. After one disappointing game in the JLT he was pushed right down the order and had to work hard to earn his spot back. Once he did that though he had an impressive season. 14 games, 11 goals and an average of 3.5 tackles highlights he made a significant contribution at the senior level.

As you have pointed out with the returning Wallis and Liberatore he again has his work cut out to hold his spot and I could see him having to earn his chances again this year. I honestly don't know how the selectors accommodate all the midfield options this year

Bontempelli, Macrae, Dunkley, Hunter and Smith are the locks and I'd probably have McLean, Wallis, Lipinski and Liberatore next in line in that order. A couple of things might work against our deep midfield and especially Lipinski
1 - If we play 3 tall forwards which seems to be in our current plan then that reduces a spot for one of the midfielders that we had last season to start as a forward.
2 - The small forward brigade of Lloyd, Dale and Dickson will command at least 2 spots up forward

This means the likes of Lipinski (and Richards) will need to work overtime to try and lock down a spot on the other wing to Hunter or the more likely scenario of having to come off an overcrowded interchange bench

I have Lipinski in our best 25 but I don't know if he will be a regular best 22 player in 2020

This pre-season is so important to many players

[ledge]

This time last year Lipinski had a brilliant pre-season and had added muscle and was playing good footy. After one disappointing game in the JLT he was pushed right down the order and had to work hard to earn his spot back. Once he did that though he had an impressive season. 14 games, 11 goals and an average of 3.5 tackles highlights he made a significant contribution at the senior level.

As you have pointed out with the returning Wallis and Liberatore he again has his work cut out to hold his spot and I could see him having to earn his chances again this year. I honestly don't know how the selectors accommodate all the midfield options this year

Bontempelli, Macrae, Dunkley, Hunter and Smith are the locks and I'd probably have McLean, Wallis, Lipinski and Liberatore next in line in that order. A couple of things might work against our deep midfield and especially Lipinski
1 - If we play 3 tall forwards which seems to be in our current plan then that reduces a spot for one of the midfielders that we had last season to start as a forward.
2 - The small forward brigade of Lloyd, Dale and Dickson will command at least 2 spots up forward

This means the likes of Lipinski (and Richards) will need to work overtime to try and lock down a spot on the other wing to Hunter or the more likely scenario of having to come off an overcrowded interchange bench

I have Lipinski in our best 25 but I don't know if he will be a regular best 22 player in 2020

This pre-season is so important to many players

I can’t believe West isn’t getting a mention or even the new kid Weightman, our depth in goal kicking mids is huge, Lippi is interesting I think he is the one who will take over after Dickson (and remember Lloyd) isn’t young, when these two retire Lippi will walk straight in to replace one and that’s what he is being prepared for.

[Mofra]

I can’t believe West isn’t getting a mention or even the new kid Weightman, our depth in goal kicking mids is huge, Lippi is interesting I think he is the one who will take over after Dickson (and remember Lloyd) isn’t young, when these two retire Lippi will walk straight in to replace one and that’s what he is being prepared for.
West is still young and Weightman hasn't debuted. Lippi has the body of work behind him and is in most best 22s.
We seems to have a few second stringers who would be getting games elsewhere but are not locks for us - Libba, Wallis, Williams

[mjp]

I can’t believe West isn’t getting a mention or even the new kid Weightman, our depth in goal kicking mids is huge, Lippi is interesting I think he is the one who will take over after Dickson (and remember Lloyd) isn’t young, when these two retire Lippi will walk straight in to replace one and that’s what he is being prepared for.

1. Agree with comments on West. Haven't seen enough of Weightman.
2. Lipinski has been great as a mid. I'm not sure why 'everyone' keeps pushing him out of the role he has proven to be effective at playing into a forward role that he isn't necessarily suited.

As to GVGjr's point, I think Lipinski's treatment/back end form in 2019 will resonate (haunt??) with the MC and he WILL start in the team. After that, it's going to be pretty much up to him. I think the other 3 you mentioned (McLean, Wallis and Liberatore) are in for some challenging times. Richards? Well, he has that outside game going which is 'something different' and that could well be his saving grace at the selection table. But the 22 is still going to look something like:

2-3x tall forwards (including ruck backup)
3x small forwards
1x ruck
4x inside mids
3x outside mids
2x tall defenders
5x medium defenders

That's obviously either 1 or 2 short (depending on whether we play 2 or 3 tall forwards) and that spot/those spots are going to go to players who have one of:

1/. Unique skill that is seen as critical vs that opponent (eg. 2nd ruck, tagger, small defender - lock down etc).
2/. Flexible/capable - mentally and footy wise - of being a floater and playing multiple roles in a single game.

[GVGjr]

Ledge the thread is mainly about Lipinski and if you want to focus on Westy it would be great if your started a thread about him. He's a gun.

[ledge]

West is still young and Weightman hasn't debuted. Lippi has the body of work behind him and is in most best 22s.
We seems to have a few second stringers who would be getting games elsewhere but are not locks for us - Libba, Wallis, Williams

So age comes into it ?
West will come on more this year as will Smith, he deserves to get a mention, Weightman hasn’t debuted yet but he should also still be in the conversation as they both will also be in the spotlight on Lippas position.
We have a huge list that can all play the same game and are all good enough, it’s going to be hard to pick teams this year..
Wallis and Libba are locks when they are getting games consistently and not getting injured, Wallis just got put in the leadership group I would not put them as second Stringer players.
Don’t get me wrong I love Lippa but apart from players already getting games we also have other ones coming up that will also compete for his position.
West seems to have a more bulky body than Lippa,but who knows after a pre season. Weightman also looks a lot like Smith to me, it’s going to be a great year seeing who steps up and who drops off.
One things for sure when Lloyd and Dickson go we will have ready to go replacements.

[ledge]

Ledge the thread is mainly about Lipinski and if you want to focus on Westy it would be great if your started a thread about him. He's a gun.

So everyone can mention other players that he has to compete with but if I mention one who has been forgotten I have to make another thread ?

[GVGjr]

1. Agree with comments on West. Haven't seen enough of Weightman.
2. Lipinski has been great as a mid. I'm not sure why 'everyone' keeps pushing him out of the role he has proven to be effective at playing into a forward role that he isn't necessarily suited.

As to GVGjr's point, I think Lipinski's treatment/back end form in 2019 will resonate (haunt??) with the MC and he WILL start in the team. After that, it's going to be pretty much up to him. I think the other 3 you mentioned (McLean, Wallis and Liberatore) are in for some challenging times. Richards? Well, he has that outside game going which is 'something different' and that could well be his saving grace at the selection table. But the 22 is still going to look something like:

2-3x tall forwards (including ruck backup)
3x small forwards
1x ruck
4x inside mids
3x outside mids
2x tall defenders
5x medium defenders

That's obviously either 1 or 2 short (depending on whether we play 2 or 3 tall forwards) and that spot/those spots are going to go to players who have one of:

1/. Unique skill that is seen as critical vs that opponent (eg. 2nd ruck, tagger, small defender - lock down etc).
2/. Flexible/capable - mentally and footy wise - of being a floater and playing multiple roles in a single game.

I'm not as confident that the MC will view Lipinski in that way but maybe they will. I suspect though that he's going to have to prove himself all over again which is a great problem for the team and it will keep them all hungry.

In a strange way I think that adding Bruce really changes things for our midfield this season. We could often push a couple of the midfielders forward but we now may not have as many options. More likely now they will only push one forward and use the IC bench more for the rotations.

I think we have 6 mids locked in and there will be competition between Wallis, Lipinski, Richards and Libertore for the one or two remaining spots. Given that Wallis is part of the leadership group is that an incentive for the MC to select him ahead of others?
It might come down to the merits of Lipinski versus Richards which is quite a contrast of styles. Lipinski performed better in 2019 in his 14 games than Richards did in his 20 but Ed has that more natural dash and that might be the point of difference the MC needs.

The MC will earn the money this year if we have a somewhat full list to choose from

[Mofra]

In a strange way I think that adding Bruce really changes things for our midfield this season. We could often push a couple of the midfielders forward but we now may not have as many options. More likely now they will only push one forward and use the IC bench more for the rotations.

I think we have 6 mids locked in and there will be competition between Wallis, Lipinski, Richards and Libertore for the one or two remaining spots. Given that Wallis is part of the leadership group is that an incentive for the MC to select him ahead of others?
It might come down to the merits of Lipinski versus Richards which is quite a contrast of styles. Lipinski performed better in 2019 in his 14 games than Richards did in his 20 but Ed has that more natural dash and that might be the point of difference the MC needs.
It's interesting, but I feel our forwards started to be far more effective when we starting playing more permanent forwards.
Lloyd was a revelation and Dale finished the year off strongly. For a while (especially in 2018) we were playing 3 mids as part of a forward rotation but with Naughton, Bruce, Dale and Lloyd that's 4 forwards - with Schache and Dickson pushing for selection we might have 6 genuine forwards with 1-2 resting mids depending on bench and ruck rotations.

We often play 7 defenders (one bench rotation) which leaves two bench spots of mids, making selection really tight. Lipinski would fit in as either first bench player picked or opposite wing to Hunter on that basis as our starting three mids are set.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Long been a fan of Lipinski.

On paper he's unappealing when stacked against others - he isn't quick and he isn't flashy, but in practice he's one of our most promising young players.

We're talking about a kid who has a high footy IQ, who finds the ball on the outside but can now win it on the inside. He's a great size, he's fit and strong and he can pinch hit forward.

There aren't too many who are more versatile than him.

He's streets ahead of Libba, Wallis, McLean, West etc. I wouldn't even dare to leave him out of the 22. He's a great foil for the likes of Macrae and Dunkley.

[S Coast Simon]

Long been a fan of Lipinski.

On paper he's unappealing when stacked against others - he isn't quick and he isn't flashy, but in practice he's one of our most promising young players.

We're talking about a kid who has a high footy IQ, who finds the ball on the outside but can now win it on the inside. He's a great size, he's fit and strong and he can pinch hit forward.

There aren't too many who are more versatile than him.

He's streets ahead of Libba, Wallis, McLean, West etc. I wouldn't even dare to leave him out of the 22. He's a great foil for the likes of Macrae and Dunkley.


I’m with you. I think he is right up there as well. Some of the things he has done is Bont like. I rate this kids skills. Looking forward to see how he progresses this year. We will be talking about the big four by the end of the year. This is the most excited I have been in years.

[Mofra]

I’m with you. I think he is right up there as well. Some of the things he has done is Bont like. I rate this kids skills. Looking forward to see how he progresses this year. We will be talking about the big four by the end of the year. This is the most excited I have been in years.
TBH if we're talking "the big four" I would expect Bailey Smith to be the fourth - the kid could be anything.

As a pure mid I still rate a fit Libba as a starting mid at most clubs, as he can win the hard ball and use it beautifully given time and space on the left. Libba is nowhere near as versatile at a Bont, Smith, Lippi though.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

As a pure mid I still rate a fit Libba as a starting mid at most clubs, as he can win the hard ball and use it beautifully given time and space on the left. Libba is nowhere near as versatile at a Bont, Smith, Lippi though.

Agree on principle that as a pure mid and at his best/fittest, Libba is on another level but the last time we saw him play this well at AFL level it was 2016 - a damn long time ago now.

Libba will need to get back to his best (or close to it) if he's to become a starter again. His lack of versatility puts him behind the likes of Wallis and McLean too IMO.

Note: I still love Libba and want him in our best side all things being equal.

[AshMac]

Agree on principle that as a pure mid and at his best/fittest, Libba is on another level but the last time we saw him play this well at AFL level it was 2016 - a damn long time ago now.

Libba will need to get back to his best (or close to it) if he's to become a starter again. His lack of versatility puts him behind the likes of Wallis and McLean too IMO.

Note: I still love Libba and want him in our best side all things being equal.

Agree completely - at his absolute best he’s in our best 22 hands down. Whether he can get back to his absolute best is another thing entirely.

Fingers crossed of course - it’s hard not to love him.

[GVGjr]

I’m with you. I think he is right up there as well. Some of the things he has done is Bont like. I rate this kids skills. Looking forward to see how he progresses this year. We will be talking about the big four by the end of the year. This is the most excited I have been in years.

He's apparently had another good summer with his training which is a positive indicator for the season ahead

It's not hard to share your excitement