How do we get our bark back?

[bulldogsthru&thru]

You know, typically in the days following a loss I'm more level-headed and pragmatic about our game. But not this week. Last weeks loss really irks me. It's eating away at me as the days pass. Yeah losing games when you've built a lead are always the most frustrating but this one is different. The way it happened was all too familiar and.....predictable for this new post-flag group.

Following the manner in which we were meekly dumped from the finals last year against the giants, this season was meant to be about revenge, redemption and standing up for ourselves. Then in the first two games of the season we put up two dismal performances where we didn't give a yelp. We then decided enough was enough and that this time we were serious and we would show some desire. Some hunger. Some fight. We put in three solid performances against the two sydney sides and north. In hindsight looking at the ladder now, two of these performances were against bottom 4 sides. But at the time we loooked like we gave a damn. Then the car crash performance in the wet against Carlton happened and we've been up and down like a yoyo since.

But back to friday nights loss. Here we are in a season of redemption where we have beaten up on poor sides and gone missing against contenders. We're 6 goals up after a quarter against one of the flag favourites. This is our best bet of claiming a scalp. We knew it before the game started and we've got them on the back foot.
Not only is this the best chance of a scalp but this night our season is on the line. This win really solidifies our finals chances. If we lose season 2020 is essentially done. So what happens? Geelong ups the ante and we lie down and don't give a yelp. Our 6 goal lead in a shortened game is whittled away relatively easily. Watching some of the footage is not pretty viewing for our midfield. No accountability. No desire to chase. No desire to defend. No desire to take the game on. Whilst during the game it didn't look so bad, upon watching the replay it was a fairly insipid effort from our midfield group who are meant to be our strength.

What is it about this group and the perceived lack of desire? It's almost business-like out there for them. There just doesn't seem to be much spirit or energy or want, especially when the chips are down. I know we've moved on a lot of the players who possessed these qualities but surely this is a non-negotiable. We just lie down far too easily and it really irks me.

If this season was meant to be about redemption then I'd hate to see what we look like when we don't have a chip on our shoulder to spark us. Am I just ranting and seeing too much into this? Is it just our inexperienced list? The covid season draining us? How do we really get our bark back?

[Vred]

Ive actually felt the same all week myself, I even said it to a co-worker that I’m fine with our side losing, but losing in the fashion we did, giving up a 6 goal lead after a blazing fast start where they didn’t kick a single goal all first quarter, that, that *!*!*!*!ing bites and drains you and nips at you and it builds up and festers and even thinking about it pisses me off more than any other loss in recent memory. I’m not ‘’back on the oh its a new week’’ train, I’m still stewing over that loss and how it shouldnt of been a *!*!*!*!ing loss.

How do we get our bite back? I dont know, but you are right, some of our players just lack balls, we are really soft in a lot of areas and honestly I dont know how to improve it, coaching? Shake up in leadership? Different head coach? I Don’t even know anymore. It’s not the dogs of 15 and 16 that’s for sure. Do we have to wait another 50 years for the desire to win a flag is enough to fuel the engine? I bloody well hope not.

[DOG GOD]

In all honesty, we aren’t that good. We have a list that is probably somewhere in the 8-12 ladder bracket. We have players who are one dimensional in their running (no defensive runners), we have a few overrated players which makes us look better on paper than we are. We have a coach and MC who pin the tail on the donkey.

Over the last year or so, I’ve made my thoughts known of how I saw our premiership year (I won’t say it again in fear of being exciled) and the 4 years that have followed Paves way to my thoughts.

So, we do we go from here?

1) Our MC needs fresh blood urgently. Bevo needs a right hand man that can stand up to his ego.
2) our list needs to rid itself of dead wood and we need to draft/trade for absolute needs (designated ruckman/smart,fast crumbing fwd)
3) better leaders on field
4) a game plan that’s not just PLAN A
5) competitive beasts in the 22

And this is probably just the start.

I’ve heard about Neil Balme. We need him ASAP. Someone successful who can bring something to our club we need.
A few have mentioned Shaun Burgoyne. For matters of indigenous, he would be the ideal get. Professional on and off the field, and even at his age would be in our best 22. Give him 1 year, followed by a mentoring role/coaching panel.

We need to make some major decisions on our playing list, and I’d be looking at trading JJ if we were able to get Zac Williams.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I was also quite annoyed at Bevo's post-match comments about how pleased he was we matched it with one of the best sides. We should have beaten them. If Geelong matched us in that first quarter it would have been a 7 goal loss. Typical for us against the top sides this year. Forgetting all the game plan issues and ruck problems, we just seem to be lacking spark.

[DOG GOD]

Even some of the top sides have had bad quarters etc, but can seem to pull it together just enough to get the win. Unless we play 4 qtr football, we can’t do that. Is that a mental thing? A competitive thing? A revamp of game plan at the qtr break? On field leaders revving the guys up? Whatever it is, it’s clear we dont have it.

[Mofra]

We need more pricks in the team. We have too many 'nice' players.

Libba is a mongrel. Cordy is a mongrel, but was missing. Smith has it sometimes. Naughton has swagger, but it's not quite the same thing.

We need one more bastard. A Clay Smith. A Tim Callan, who would walk to the quarter time huddle boasting about how he ground some opponent's face into the mud (yes, I overheard him talking to Ayce one break at Willy).
I don't think we play with enough "edge".

[The Doctor]

We need more pricks in the team. We have too many 'nice' players.

Libba is a mongrel. Cordy is a mongrel, but was missing. Smith has it sometimes. Naughton has swagger, but it's not quite the same thing.

We need one more bastard. A Clay Smith. A Tim Callan, who would walk to the quarter time huddle boasting about how he ground some opponent's face into the mud (yes, I overheard him talking to Ayce one break at Willy).
I don't think we play with enough "edge".

Yes we are too nice.

A lot of our blokes need to learn to tackle and to tackle with intent. Too many slip off opponents & I'm sure you all know who the repeat offenders are. But even some of our senior players are guilty of it. Bont missed one he should have nailed at a critical stage in the 4th last week.

Have we lost the art of 'Cracking in' a bit? We need more grunt in our play.

[DOG GOD]

Do we have a tackling coach? Coz we certainly need one. Every time we tackle an opponent around the waist I lose it...why can’t we grab an arm? Is it really that difficult ?

[GVGjr]

We need to develop that harder edge and turn some 'nice' players into a tougher breed.
We need to develop a tagger like Jack Steele at the Saints and we need to just have a couple of players willing to push the edge a bit

It's not a massive adjustment just a change of mindset and approach

[bornadog]

I completely disagree with the OP.

Yes, we gave up a 6 goal lead, but remember who we were playing on Friday. The number one Defensive, Offensive team, the team that has kicked the most goals for the season, number one in Stoppages, Clearances, Contested Possession and equal top of the ladder.

They threw everything at us in the second and third quarters and only managed 3 goals and 2 goals - our defence was under pressure, but they held out. Yes we made a few mistakes here and there. By the time the last quarter was on, we were down two players and tiring but still holding on to a ten point lead with about 5 minutes to go. If it wasn't for some lack of composure, we could have won the game.

This game was not like our weak efforts against Collingwood, Saints and Richmond and showed we can match it with some of the best teams. We played a similar game against Port Adelaide at their home ground and threw that one away as well.

I do agree, and have said it for some time, we don't have the full cattle on the ground to be top four at this stage. We aren't too far off.

If we can sort out the rucks, get a small forward to kick goals, and an athletic CHB we will be there. I would also love a speedy outside mid.

[Ozza]

Typically, you don't make the finals unless you win a game or two when you are not expected to. We have one more opportunity to do it this week against West Coast, and chances are if we can't find a way to win, then we miss finals. It would be a number of years since the last time we finished a season without having at least 1 good win against a top side. I'm not sure we have demonstrated a stable enough approach to stoppages or forward set up to achieve success during the year. I do think there is enough talent in the team to hae been a finals side, but there are weeks where we were all pretty sure we wouldn't win, on selection night.

We don't seem to have the structure or maturity to be able to make adjustments and get the game under control when it starts going against us. The most frustrating loss for me was Port, where we had good control in the game and completely lost it in the third quarter where we inexpicably had Bont forward for the entire quarter while it spiralled out of control. We blame the losses on blatant turnovers, but the way we play with assertive defensive positioning sets us up to have no room for error on turnovers.

Brisbane and Geelong we started well but were otherwise comprhesively beaten for the remainder of the game and the coach had the audacity to praise our efforts and put it down to one bad quarter in the Brisbane case (when we lost 3 quarters) and were flattered by the scoreboard. V Richmond we were appalling. And my expectation is that we will be soundly outplayed by West Coast this week because we absolutely NEVER handle what West Coast bring in terms of their game style. The last 3 losses have been 50+ v the Eagles.

Its obviously a season of unusual circumstances, but I had top 4 as a pass mark for the season, so have found it incredibly disappointing.

The performance of many players has not reached what I would expect, and the performance of the coach/coaches has been below a pass mark.

[azabob]

I completely disagree with the OP.

Yes, we gave up a 6 goal lead, but remember who we were playing on Friday. The number one Defensive, Offensive team, the team that has kicked the most goals for the season, number one in Stoppages, Clearances, Contested Possession and equal top of the ladder.

They threw everything at us in the second and third quarters and only managed 3 goals and 2 goals - our defence was under pressure, but they held out. Yes we made a few mistakes here and there. By the time the last quarter was on, we were down two players and tiring but still holding on to a ten point lead with about 5 minutes to go. If it wasn't for some lack of composure, we could have won the game.

This game was not like our weak efforts against Collingwood, Saints and Richmond and showed we can match it with some of the best teams. We played a similar game against Port Adelaide at their home ground and threw that one away as well.

I do agree, and have said it for some time, we don't have the full cattle on the ground to be top four at this stage. We aren't too far off.

If we can sort out the rucks, get a small forward to kick goals, and an athletic CHB we will be there. I would also love a speedy outside mid.

I think you make some valid points.

On the gaps in our team you have highlighted they are some fairly big positional holes to fill! But I don't think we need to fix them all.

I think we need a ruckman and add a harder edge to the midfield group.

If we improve our defensive midfield game, our defense will not be as exposed and if we can improve our midfield forward connection we have the right mix of players already on our list to regularly kick a wining score.

We need to find a Liam Picken type, a Koby Stevens type who were happy to do the hard work for the betterment of the team.

[mjp]

We need one more bastard. A Clay Smith. A Tim Callan, who would walk to the quarter time huddle boasting about how he ground some opponent's face into the mud (yes, I overheard him talking to Ayce one break at Willy).
I don't think we play with enough "edge".

I involuntarily spat out my coffee when I read that.

Has this been the only time in the history of the world where someone said we need a bit more of Tim Callan?

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I completely disagree with the OP.

Yes, we gave up a 6 goal lead, but remember who we were playing on Friday. The number one Defensive, Offensive team, the team that has kicked the most goals for the season, number one in Stoppages, Clearances, Contested Possession and equal top of the ladder.

They threw everything at us in the second and third quarters and only managed 3 goals and 2 goals - our defence was under pressure, but they held out. Yes we made a few mistakes here and there. By the time the last quarter was on, we were down two players and tiring but still holding on to a ten point lead with about 5 minutes to go. If it wasn't for some lack of composure, we could have won the game.

This game was not like our weak efforts against Collingwood, Saints and Richmond and showed we can match it with some of the best teams. We played a similar game against Port Adelaide at their home ground and threw that one away as well.

I do agree, and have said it for some time, we don't have the full cattle on the ground to be top four at this stage. We aren't too far off.

If we can sort out the rucks, get a small forward to kick goals, and an athletic CHB we will be there. I would also love a speedy outside mid.

I get what you're saying but I'm fairly sick of the excuses and hearing 'if only' or 'except 1 quarter we matched them'. I've seen it after our games against Richmond, Port, Brisbane and now Geelong. Hell I even saw it against Carlton. Remember we were highly touted as top 4 fancies and even for the flag. Most of us on here thought the same. So the excuses and what we're dishing up aren't acceptable for those sort of goals. So if we're no longer a top 8 side, then what's changed since the start of preseason? Did we simply massively overrate our list? I don't think we need drastic changes (listwise) either but I still think we're underachieving.

[bornadog]

'if only' or 'except 1 quarter we matched them'. I've seen it after our games against Richmond, Port, Brisbane and now Geelong. Hell I even saw it against Carlton.

Means we don't have the right players that can contribute for 4 quarters.


I don't think we need drastic changes (listwise) either but I still think we're underachieving.

Ideally we do.

Need to be ruthless:



Not worth persisting


Dale, Bailey


Gardner, Ryan R


Gowers, Billy


Greene, Fergus


Hayes, Will


Lynch, Bradley


Porter, Callum


Smith, Roarke R








Maybe or unknown


Sweet, Jordon R


Young, Lachie R


Young, Lewis


Cavarra, Ben


Khamis, Buku R



The trouble is when we have injuries to best 22, we have to choose from above. I maybe harsh on some players but so be it. I want another premiership.

[DOG GOD]

I think the media massively overrated our list (especially midfield). It’s funny, a saints friend of mine highly rates our midfield and can’t understand why we aren’t top 3-4 with our midfield core group. I simply reply with “because our mids are overrated and that’s why we drop games against the likes of a North, Carlton and GC”.

We look good on paper, but in reality our mids are one trick ponies with the majority having poor skills, slow, and very poor defensively. Unless this changes, then 2021,2022 and 2023 will be similar to what we’ve dished up since the GF.

As much as I love a Bonti, I don’t think I’ve seen a bonifide star get caught holding the ball as much as him.
Macrae gets a lot of the ball, but is he that damaging? He reminds me of Tom Mitchell/Zack Merrett style in the amount Of footy he does get, where we need more of a Lachie Neale who can run and carry and give scoreboard pressure.

[DOG GOD]

Means we don't have the right players that can contribute for 4 quarters.



Ideally we do.

Need to be ruthless:



Not worth persisting


Dale, Bailey


Gardner, Ryan R


Gowers, Billy


Greene, Fergus


Hayes, Will


Lynch, Bradley


Porter, Callum


Smith, Roarke R








Maybe or unknown


Sweet, Jordon R


Young, Lachie R


Young, Lewis


Cavarra, Ben


Khamis, Buku R



The trouble is when we have injuries to best 22, we have to choose from above. I maybe harsh on some players but so be it. I want another premiership.

From that list Bornadog, which I agree with btw, it would not surprise me one bit to see Gardner, Hayes and Smith get another year or 2.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Means we don't have the right players that can contribute for 4 quarters.



Ideally we do.

Need to be ruthless:



Not worth persisting


Dale, Bailey


Gardner, Ryan R


Gowers, Billy


Greene, Fergus


Hayes, Will


Lynch, Bradley


Porter, Callum


Smith, Roarke R








Maybe or unknown


Sweet, Jordon R


Young, Lachie R


Young, Lewis


Cavarra, Ben


Khamis, Buku R



The trouble is when we have injuries to best 22, we have to choose from above. I maybe harsh on some players but so be it. I want another premiership.

How ruthless is this though? It’s a large number but really only 1 of those players has gotten regular games this year (Dale). The others have barely featured or haven’t at all. We won’t see much improvement through cutting fringe or depth players. Ultimately we need an improved and consistent effort from our core players.

btw I don’t disagree with your list. I just don’t think they are the cause of our current issues

[DOG GOD]

Dale, Greene, Lew Young (who I reckon has asked to be traded) and Sweet would be the only ones I’d consider staying from that list.

On our standard players who get a regular jumper, I’d consider Lipinski, McLean, Jong and JJ if we could get some players of need (Zac Williams).

[bornadog]

Dale, Greene, Lew Young (who I reckon has asked to be traded) and Sweet would be the only ones I’d consider staying from that list.

On our standard players who get a regular jumper, I’d consider Lipinski, McLean, Jong and JJ if we could get some players of need (Zac Williams).

Yes I agree on bolded, maybe I am harsh on Dale.

I don't agree on JJ and Jong. We keep getting rid of players in the 26 year plus bracket and that is one of our current issues. The majority of players are under 25/26 and then we jump to a few mature recruits, plus Wood. We need to keep some mature players, because you know what, "we will end up saying, We were too young tonight"

On top of the list above, we will have Dickson, Suckling most likely to retire

[DOG GOD]

Jong and JJ were only listed if we can get “better” players in their age brackets to take their place. I certainly wouldn’t move them on to bring in a kid.

[Grantysghost]

One thing that really grinds my gears about the Cats game is that I think they're maybe in a bit of a form dip. People have gone a little over the top with them again this season, and yes we can only go with what evidence we have but I will be watching with interest at the pointy end. I watched the game v the Crows and I thought Geelong were outplayed for large portions of that game.
I'm the same, the longer the week has gone the more annoyed i am we couldn't capitalise on a 6 goal lead.

[Cyberdoggie]

We need more pricks in the team. We have too many 'nice' players.

Libba is a mongrel. Cordy is a mongrel, but was missing. Smith has it sometimes. Naughton has swagger, but it's not quite the same thing.

We need one more bastard. A Clay Smith. A Tim Callan, who would walk to the quarter time huddle boasting about how he ground some opponent's face into the mud (yes, I overheard him talking to Ayce one break at Willy).
I don't think we play with enough "edge".

I'm not sure about pricks, but yes i agree we are unbalanced. Too many lighter running players and not enough of the types that win you those finals/tight physical games.

I also think we are going through a learning phase with Bont being captain. He's appears to be playing like he feels it's all on him and his performance if we win or lose. He's been more erratic than ever this year with his output.
I'm not a big fan of having the best player in the team also be the captain, especially at the bulldogs. Doesn't always work for the better. Ideally Mitch Wallis should of been in line to be captain, he's an outstanding leader and speaker and is at the right age now, but due to his injury history and mixed performances, he has fallen out of favour.


We should of won that game last Friday and i was bitterly disappointed, however, it was a much better effort in that we didn't fall apart completely during the second quarter where we have done so 6 times previously this year. We managed to hang on and slightly slow down the response. Granted we needed to attack more and if we had finished a couple of our chances it would of been a different story (looking at Bruce!).
Going two players down we were never going to win that game, i'm surprised we hung on as long as we did.

As things are never as bad as they seem (remember 2016). I'm looking at the positives in that our first quarter was the best footy i had seen in quite some time, and all we need to do is tweak the personel slightly and things will turn.
Jong, Duryea could help with some toughness and experience. Dickson is done, so we will have to find someone up forward,
and please stop playing Gardner, especially on players like Rohan!

[DOG GOD]

So Gardner is out of contract? Do we all expect him to be kept on ? I do.

[comrade]

So Gardner is out of contract? Do we all expect him to be kept on ? I do.

I'd give him a better than 50% chance.

[Axe Man]

So Gardner is out of contract? Do we all expect him to be kept on ? I do.

I don't think we have much choice unless we bring in another key defender. Assuming Trengove is gone we can't go into 2021 with only Keath, Cordy and Lewis Young (and that's if Young doesn't leave as well). I think he's improved the last few games and is ok as key defender depth.

[Grantysghost]

If we only we had a resource to check contract status. Oh wait....big footy :cool:

[Grantysghost]

So Gardner is out of contract? Do we all expect him to be kept on ? I do.

Yep think he will get an extra year.

[Axe Man]

If we only we had a resource to check contract status. Oh wait....big footy :cool:

I prefer playakontraktz.com

[Grantysghost]

I prefer playakontraktz.com

Not working for me?
https://i.postimg.cc/W1YLqgjd/Screenshot-20200901-171535-Samsung-Internet.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[G-Mo77]

So Gardner is out of contract? Do we all expect him to be kept on ? I do.

Bring back Fletcher Roberts!

[SonofScray]

2 goals and a fight. Should be our mantra.

[Mofra]

I involuntarily spat out my coffee when I read that.

Has this been the only time in the history of the world where someone said we need a bit more of Tim Callan?
I meant that we need his type. Someone who is willing to do whatever it takes to compete, someone ruthless.

When Wallis was sent to Hodge on egame early in his career to nullify his influence and to learn from him, that was the word he used to describe Hodge. Not champion, skilled, or smart. Ruthless.
I really do think we need one more real hard-arse in the side.

[Mofra]

So Gardner is out of contract? Do we all expect him to be kept on ? I do.
I do too.

I feel for Gardner - a lot of fans seem to be just waiting for him to fail.
Once upon a time a guy who was thrown on the scrapheap, got a chance with a toenail in the door, and managed to play a couple of games would have been celebrated. He certainly hasn't been too bad in his last two games. TBH I think he deserves a spot on our list more than a number of players. I can think of half a dozen I'd lose easily before Gardner.
Yes I'd love another gun KPD to come in, but the world just doesn't work that way.

[Ozza]

I don't really buy the whole 'we don't have the cattle' theory.

Every list has strengths and weaknesses. Every side could do with another key position player, a speedy wingman, etc etc etc.

Last year, we wasted the first half of the year and then rattled home looking like we could beat anybody. And effectively did beat everyone significant, as we beat 3 of the 4 prelim finalist, and were within 2 goals of Collingwood. Add to that, that we were by far the youngest team to be able to match it with the top sides, and we should have had very high expectations this year.

[The Pie Man]

I do too.

I feel for Gardner - a lot of fans seem to be just waiting for him to fail.
Once upon a time a guy who was thrown on the scrapheap, got a chance with a toenail in the door, and managed to play a couple of games would have been celebrated. He certainly hasn't been too bad in his last two games. TBH I think he deserves a spot on our list more than a number of players. I can think of half a dozen I'd lose easily before Gardner.
Yes I'd love another gun KPD to come in, but the world just doesn't work that way.

There seems to be a hard stance almost automatically taken on guys taken from the VFL / delisted from other clubs.... like we don't trust it.

I recall plenty on here not happy we drafted Dickson at the time.

Gardner's been quite ok for nearly a month - suspect he's starting to feel more 'comfortable' at senior level given the sustained run he's had, which can hopefully translate to a solid senior defender.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

There seems to be a hard stance almost automatically taken on guys taken from the VFL / delisted from other clubs.... like we don't trust it.

I recall plenty on here not happy we drafted Dickson at the time.

Gardner's been quite ok for nearly a month - suspect he's starting to feel more 'comfortable' at senior level given the sustained run he's had, which can hopefully translate to a solid senior defender.

Yeah I've been happy enough with Gardner the last three weeks. He really looks like a player who once he finds his feet at AFL level, he'll be a 1%er sort of guy. Getting to the right spots and ensuring a spoil. Which is all we can ask for. I hate it when he has the ball in his hands but if he can nullify most contests we can all probably live with the occasional disposal error. He just needs to know his limitations. He's solid depth for a KPD.

[mjp]

I think the media massively overrated our list (especially midfield). It’s funny, a saints friend of mine highly rates our midfield and can’t understand why we aren’t top 3-4 with our midfield core group. I simply reply with “because our mids are overrated and that’s why we drop games against the likes of a North, Carlton and GC”.


This should probably be a thread but of our mids who would you say is over-rated / properly-rated / under-rated?

Bont. (From your comments OVER)
Macrae (again, you say over)
Smith?
Liber
Dunks
Toby
Hunter
Lipinski
Hayes
English

As an aside, Lachie Neale has had 15 bounces for the year (run and carry) which is less than half as many as Lachie Hunter...I think we all like Neale as a player but I'm not sure R+C is a stand-out attribute of his game.

[AshMac]

Reading this has been very cathartic - thank you! I too am furious about last Friday. Granted the importance of footy going well is amplified during lock down with more time to reflect - but that one particularly sucked.

I'm in the camp of Friday just not being good enough - the tiredness in the last quarter is totally understandable but we let them back into the game and pivoted our style from qtr time. We are better than that.

Re. getting our bark back - its a mix of things.

- no more passengers - players are out of form they're dropped - sends the wrong message and builds a culture of complacency
- we need to add pressure and intensity to our forward line - Hugh pressure small forward would be nice, but across the board. Everyone but naughton needs to lift IMO
- I'd like another silky outside elite runner elite kick for the middle
- we need a fine jar - $20 or every tackle that a player gets arms free and hands away $50 every time they break away completely and keep running
- assistance coach refresh - love the blame idea
- Lastly we need to sort the ruck out. the clearance stats don't tell an accurate story when our clearances are rushed lolly pop kicks and oppositions are free running clearances and clean entry into F50

who s the ex-player that bursts into the rooms and gives the "line in the sand" speech?

[bornadog]

pressure small forward would be nice, but across the board. Everyone but naughton needs to lift IMO


Wallis?

[Mofra]

Wallis?
I'm not even going to pretend to be impartial. I am very very happy with Vandermeer's progress this year. He doesn't quite have Dickson/Lloyd's smarts but makes up for it with pace and aggression.

[DOG GOD]

This should probably be a thread but of our mids who would you say is over-rated / properly-rated / under-rated?

Bont. (From your comments OVER)
Macrae (again, you say over)
Smith?
Liber
Dunks
Toby
Hunter
Lipinski
Hayes
English

As an aside, Lachie Neale has had 15 bounces for the year (run and carry) which is less than half as many as Lachie Hunter...I think we all like Neale as a player but I'm not sure R+C is a stand-out attribute of his game.

Hi MJP,
As a group I think the media overate our midfield core group. And I’ll probably get burnt in saying this, but yes I do think the majority of our midfield is overrated as a whole.

Do I personally think Bonti is overrated? Yes I do...just. For mine he goes missing in too many occasions, gets caught with the ball all too often, is a shocking kick for goal. But he can turn a game in a quarter. His field kicking is sublime when on song. Is he a bad player? No way, but I still see lots of improvement in his game, and the way commentary talk about him, then yes, I think he is overrated for what he delivers on a weekly basis.

Macrae is slow, doesn’t run both ways well, has avge foot skills more often than not and doesn’t give scoreboard pressure for a highly rated mid. Yes, he is consistent in the amount of ball he gets, but like I said, he’s more in the mould of Mitchell/Merrett who I also think is slightly overrated for what they actually do with the ball.

I also put hunter in this category.

Smith is going to be a beauty. For what he has done in his first 2 years he is certainly not overrated. He will be a star.

Toby, lipinski and Hayes would not be starting 22 in any team imo.

At the moment, English has proven he is not a first ruck. Time will tell where he ends up.

Dunkley and libba I personally think are not overrated. Both play to their abilities.

My point is that we have a mid group that I personally think the media overate. I’m not talking about all individual players, but as a core group, then yes.

But what do I know

I ready myself for the roasting Lol

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Hi MJP,
As a group I think the media overate our midfield core group. And I’ll probably get burnt in saying this, but yes I do think the majority of our midfield is overrated as a whole.

Do I personally think Bonti is overrated? Yes I do...just. For mine he goes missing in too many occasions, gets caught with the ball all too often, is a shocking kick for goal. But he can turn a game in a quarter. His field kicking is sublime when on song. Is he a bad player? No way, but I still see lots of improvement in his game, and the way commentary talk about him, then yes, I think he is overrated for what he delivers on a weekly basis.

Macrae is slow, doesn’t run both ways well, has avge foot skills more often than not and doesn’t give scoreboard pressure for a highly rated mid. Yes, he is consistent in the amount of ball he gets, but like I said, he’s more in the mould of Mitchell/Merrett who I also think is slightly overrated for what they actually do with the ball.

I also put hunter in this category.

Smith is going to be a beauty. For what he has done in his first 2 years he is certainly not overrated. He will be a star.

Toby, lipinski and Hayes would not be starting 22 in any team imo.

At the moment, English has proven he is not a first ruck. Time will tell where he ends up.

Dunkley and libba I personally think are not overrated. Both play to their abilities.

My point is that we have a mid group that I personally think the media overate. I’m not talking about all individual players, but as a core group, then yes.

But what do I know

I ready myself for the roasting Lol

I like your summary on our midfield which sadly lacks pace in the main and foot skills. Too many hand passes also limits opportunities for our forward line players. A case in point is Schache who leads well and is our best kick for goal but is limited because of poor delivery. Smith is an exception with good pace and skills. Our midfield has the capacity to get big disposals but our finishing leaves a lot to be desired resulting in poor returns on the scoreboard.

[soupman]

I think our midfield is overrated.

Individually? No. I think basically none of them are overrated as individual players, they have all proven they can perform to the level generally expected of them, but as a group? Certainly.

Our midfield is the ultimate "not greater than the sum of all parts". You put guys of the quality of Bont, Macrae, Hunter, Dunkley, Libba and Smith together and go "wow that must be amazing" but despite the immense talent that midfield contains it is not the dominant force it should add up to be.

Whether thats an issue of player types, personalities, game style or opposition plans I don't know but our midfield certainly is better on paper than it is in person.

[Axe Man]

I like your summary on our midfield which sadly lacks pace in the main and foot skills. Too many hand passes also limits opportunities for our forward line players. A case in point is Schache who leads well and is our best kick for goal but is limited because of poor delivery. Smith is an exception with good pace and skills. Our midfield has the capacity to get big disposals but our finishing leaves a lot to be desired resulting in poor returns on the scoreboard.

Is our delivery inside 50 really poor though? Rarely in today's game do you see a side regularly delivering lace out passes to forwards. The defensive structures are usually too good to allow this. We are fifth for marks inside 50 this season with an average of 9.4 per game (if the 2019 version of Bruce was playing and Naughton hadn't missed half the season we might be number 1). Brisbane are number 1 with 10.8. Interestingly the rankings are generally in line with ladder position with a few exceptions - us and Melbourne (4th) sit higher than our ladder position, Port (9th) and Collingwood (13th) sit lower.

[bornadog]

Hi MJP,
As a group I think the media overate our midfield core group. And I’ll probably get burnt in saying this, but yes I do think the majority of our midfield is overrated as a whole.

Do I personally think Bonti is overrated? Yes I do...just. For mine he goes missing in too many occasions, gets caught with the ball all too often, is a shocking kick for goal. But he can turn a game in a quarter. His field kicking is sublime when on song. Is he a bad player? No way, but I still see lots of improvement in his game, and the way commentary talk about him, then yes, I think he is overrated for what he delivers on a weekly basis.

Macrae is slow, doesn’t run both ways well, has avge foot skills more often than not and doesn’t give scoreboard pressure for a highly rated mid. Yes, he is consistent in the amount of ball he gets, but like I said, he’s more in the mould of Mitchell/Merrett who I also think is slightly overrated for what they actually do with the ball.

I also put hunter in this category.

Smith is going to be a beauty. For what he has done in his first 2 years he is certainly not overrated. He will be a star.

Toby, lipinski and Hayes would not be starting 22 in any team imo.

At the moment, English has proven he is not a first ruck. Time will tell where he ends up.

Dunkley and libba I personally think are not overrated. Both play to their abilities.

My point is that we have a mid group that I personally think the media overate. I’m not talking about all individual players, but as a core group, then yes.

But what do I know

I ready myself for the roasting Lol

Have to totally disagree with you.

Both Bont and Macrae are AA and Hunter is one of the best wingman in the AFL.
Smith is a future star and probably ranked as one of the best 2nd year players in the AFL.

[Grantysghost]

I don't think any of our mids are over rated least of all Bontempelli. I think we could do with a better finisher by foot for sure (Polec would be OK by me, but Kelly is the gold standard). None of them are A grade field kicks. Bont is sometimes (used to be seems to have gone backwards maybe injury/fatigue) , Smith could be/will be. Watching the Crows last night a young guy they have Lachlan Murphy (rookie draft Clarko) really lowered his eyes and hit up passes by foot. I was super impressed with that aspect of his game, and I think we lack one more guy in the mix who can do that.

[DOG GOD]

Have to totally disagree with you.

Both Bont and Macrae are AA and Hunter is one of the best wingman in the AFL.
Smith is a future star and probably ranked as one of the best 2nd year players in the AFL.

No worries Bornadog...appreciate your thoughts. But I didn’t say I thought Smith was overrated.

[DOG GOD]

I don't think any of our mids are over rated least of all Bontempelli. I think we could do with a better finisher by foot for sure (Polec would be OK by me, but Kelly is the gold standard). None of them are A grade field kicks. Bont is sometimes (used to be seems to have gone backwards maybe injury/fatigue) , Smith could be/will be. Watching the Crows last night a young guy they have Lachlan Murphy (rookie draft Clarko) really lowered his eyes and hit up passes by foot. I was super impressed with that aspect of his game, and I think we lack one more guy in the mix who can do that.

Kelly is definitely the mid we need.

[Grantysghost]

Kelly is definitely the mid we need.

Is he still best buds with the Bont ? He would demand such a premium I'm not sure we could afford him, especially with the massive deal GWS have at his fingertips. (4-8 years ?).

[azabob]

Kelly is definitely the mid we need.

Is Kelly more inside or outside these days?

[Grantysghost]

Is Kelly more inside or outside these days?

Outside in I think?
1.6 to 1 uncontested to contested possessions this season.

[DOG GOD]

Is Kelly more inside or outside these days?

To be honest, I haven’t seen a lot of GWS games this year. I know the games I’ve seen he’s done both. I know I drool every time he gets/kicks the ball. Maybe with the likes of Ash, Caldwell etc, and Taranto, Whitfield, Hopper and Coniglio playing more, he is maybe playing the inside/outside role depending on matchups etc. but I agree with the above, maybe more outside.

[DOG GOD]

Is he still best buds with the Bont ? He would demand such a premium I'm not sure we could afford him, especially with the massive deal GWS have at his fingertips. (4-8 years ?).

Yep it would take ALOT to prize him. I’m sure he signed for those 2 years with a clause his next contact would be for 8 further years.

[CarnTheScray]

We need more pricks in the team. We have too many 'nice' players.

Libba is a mongrel. Cordy is a mongrel, but was missing. Smith has it sometimes. Naughton has swagger, but it's not quite the same thing.

We need one more bastard. A Clay Smith. A Tim Callan, who would walk to the quarter time huddle boasting about how he ground some opponent's face into the mud (yes, I overheard him talking to Ayce one break at Willy).
I don't think we play with enough "edge".

Agree 100% We have too many nice guys on field. It gets me going every time I see English be a little passive mute on the field. If I was him I would want to be the most aggressive, physical and intimidating player on the field with a height like that.

That's why I always doubt English will ever be ready, he looks like an agreeable person who just stumbled into a career.

[Remi Moses]

Don’t think our midfield is overrated
If anything we need an extra Hunter type ( his loss really stood out ) Hayes is an ok player, but need a level above
I didn’t think we got beat up the other night and just got beaten by a champion player .

[Remi Moses]

Gotta say though a Picken , Clay Smith type
Maybe not Tim Callan ;)

[GVGjr]

To me our midfield is very good but there are some areas of concerns and improvement opportunities as Dog God pointed out

Bont is the real deal but yes his set shot goal kicking isn't of a genuine champ. We have also been guilty of plonking forward for too long
Macrae is a beauty but is reluctant to kick for goals and needs to work on his kicking depth and penetration
Dunkley has some limitations be gets the ball moving forward. We need him back in the midfield rotations
Smith has pace and kicking depth and really provides some spark for us
Liberatore might has slipped back just a bit but is a crucial midfielder
Hunter has some flaws but runs hard in both directions
McLean has been disappointing and needs to improve. He's more of a forward midfielder than the other way around
Lipinski lacks some pace but I think he's a bit better than what we have seen this year
Hayes is more of a pure winger than a centre square option but with just one game behind him this year there must be some doubts
Jong is just too injury prone and West needs some more time

We need another quality player in the Bailey Smith mold which is a lot easier said than just being able to draft or trade for a player of his quality. We also need a tagger in the Jack Steele mold. Capable of limiting an opposition star player but also getting the ball himself

In my opinion it's a very good midfield but there are some obvious improvements opportunities

[Danjul]

Don’t think our midfield is overrated
If anything we need an extra Hunter type ( his loss really stood out ) Hayes is an ok player, but need a level above
I didn’t think we got beat up the other night and just got beaten by a champion player .

Last year against the Dogs Dangerfield got 23 possessions (twice).

And his last half dozen games this year have been even less. I think his average for this year is 23.

What was it about Friday’s game that gave him a 50% increase and made him dominant and a match winner?

And also has our mids called overrated here.

[GVGjr]

Last year against the Dogs Dangerfield got 23 possessions (twice).

And his last half dozen games this year have been even less. I think his average for this year is 23.

What was it about Friday’s game that gave him a 50% increase and made him dominant and a match winner?

And also has our mids called overrated here.

It annoys me no end in seeing a quality midfielder go unchecked but unless we are instructing someone to do it we will get burned at times.
Last year we got thrashed by Cripps and lost the to Carlton game, a few weeks later in a rematch we matched him up and limited his impact and we won it

We just need to have a rethink about using someone in a tagging or run with role

[AshMac]

Wallis?

Yep, that’s fair

[AshMac]

Last year against the Dogs Dangerfield got 23 possessions (twice).

And his last half dozen games this year have been even less. I think his average for this year is 23.

What was it about Friday’s game that gave him a 50% increase and made him dominant and a match winner?

And also has our mids called overrated here.

It was the quality of his possessions IMO rather than the number. He was brutal - never got pinged holding the ball in and was clinical with his ball use. That 45m kick to Hawkins in the 3rd (?) qtr running at full speed Was beyond elite. He was so damaging around the stoppages granted - and we have a lot of work to do with them - but he was also in brownlow form that night all over the ground and there isn’t much you can do about a player of his ilk on a night like that.

Should he have been able to win them the game? No.

I’m seeing The start of a pattern with Dusty and Danger both having their best games of the year against us and wondering if Fyfe does something similar in a few weeks.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Looking at our midfield another way, what are the qualities of a great midfield?

1. Ability to get first use
2. Quick hands
3. Clean skills
4. Elite foot skills
5. Speed
6. Shut down defender (Tagger)
7. Run and carry
8. Defensive players
9. Aggression/full on intensity. Tackling machines

Any other qualities?

Now, with our current crop, what’s lacking for each mainstay player? I think it’s fair to say each has quick hands.

Bont:
Run and carry
Speed
Defensive players
Shut down defender
Aggression
He does have elite foot skills but it can go missing at times.

Macrae:
Run and carry
Speed
Clean skills
Elite foot skills
Shut down defender
He’s our ball getter

Smith:
Shut down defender
On potential he’s probably our most complete mid

Libba:
Run and carry
Speed
Could play the tagger but are his skills wasted in doing this?

Dunkley:
Run and carry
Speed
Elite foot skills
Clean skills
Can he become our Steele?

Hunter:
Speed
Clean skills
Elite foot skills
Aggression

I mean looking at that we’re not too badly placed and it does match what is being discussed. We need another mid who is quick and clean by foot. But these types are extremely hard to trade in. We also miss a bit of run and carry and these two components seem to be falling in the young shoulders of Smith. A tagger would be nice. Can Dunks play this role ala Steele?

At the end of they day it’s not far off. We just need that intensity at all times and to play more cohesively. Add a touch more class and it’s fairly solid.

[Mofra]

Maybe it's just me, but I consider a ruckman as part of the midfield.

Now our running mids look good on paper against other teams, but that complexion changes when you add the ruck to the mix. Right now Timmy just isn't much of a threat at stoppages, especially in the centre. He is so good at the around the ground stuff that it can be hidden at times, but it can't be hidden at the centre bounces. Teams are now working on ways to exploit that, and in recent weeks some have been successful.

[Axe Man]

It was the quality of his possessions IMO rather than the number. He was brutal - never got pinged holding the ball in and was clinical with his ball use. That 45m kick to Hawkins in the 3rd (?) qtr running at full speed Was beyond elite. He was so damaging around the stoppages granted - and we have a lot of work to do with them - but he was also in brownlow form that night all over the ground and there isn’t much you can do about a player of his ilk on a night like that.

Should he have been able to win them the game? No.

I’m seeing The start of a pattern with Dusty and Danger both having their best games of the year against us and wondering if Fyfe does something similar in a few weeks.

That's the first time I've ever heard Dangerfield described as being clinical with his ball use.

No doubt Danger was a major reason they won the game - he was immense with his attack on the ball and had some damaging disposals, but as always he sprayed plenty. Kicked a couple out on the full and went at 39% by foot and had 56% overall disposal efficiency. I know he's not exactly taking many safe sideways chips to pump these numbers up, but elite by foot he is most definitely not.

[mjp]

Looking at our midfield another way, what are the qualities of a great midfield?

1. Ability to get first use
2. Quick hands
3. Clean skills
4. Elite foot skills
5. Speed
6. Shut down defender (Tagger)
7. Run and carry
8. Defensive players
9. Aggression/full on intensity. Tackling machines

Any other qualities?



Umm.
Ability to find space in transition.
Able to fulfill multiple roles in a contest structure.
Willingness/Speed in transition from a contest.
Defensive positioning skills - able to play in space and one-v-one.
...you could go on and on.

The skills of the game that make elite players are hard to define. The skills of the game that 'good average players' have are easy to define...that is the beauty of sport. You can learn skills/develop excellence in skill ex independently but that doesn't make you a good player.

[Dancin' Douggy]

I agree with a lot of what you've written here. But I can't ignore the fact Dunkley was just getting mauled in the ruck in the last quarter. Not his fault, he's not big enough. A decision like this sits fairly and squarely on Bevo's shoulders. I don't think there's a single person in footy, following ANY team, that would give the 'Dunkley as ruckman' experiment the tick of approval.
I completely disagree with the OP.

Yes, we gave up a 6 goal lead, but remember who we were playing on Friday. The number one Defensive, Offensive team, the team that has kicked the most goals for the season, number one in Stoppages, Clearances, Contested Possession and equal top of the ladder.

They threw everything at us in the second and third quarters and only managed 3 goals and 2 goals - our defence was under pressure, but they held out. Yes we made a few mistakes here and there. By the time the last quarter was on, we were down two players and tiring but still holding on to a ten point lead with about 5 minutes to go. If it wasn't for some lack of composure, we could have won the game.

This game was not like our weak efforts against Collingwood, Saints and Richmond and showed we can match it with some of the best teams. We played a similar game against Port Adelaide at their home ground and threw that one away as well.

I do agree, and have said it for some time, we don't have the full cattle on the ground to be top four at this stage. We aren't too far off.

If we can sort out the rucks, get a small forward to kick goals, and an athletic CHB we will be there. I would also love a speedy outside mid.

[Topdog]

You know, typically in the days following a loss I'm more level-headed and pragmatic about our game. But not this week. Last weeks loss really irks me. It's eating away at me as the days pass. Yeah losing games when you've built a lead are always the most frustrating but this one is different. The way it happened was all too familiar and.....predictable for this new post-flag group.


I'm literally just getting over this and still cant think about what needs to change. Geez that loss annoyed me.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Umm.
Ability to find space in transition.
Able to fulfill multiple roles in a contest structure.
Willingness/Speed in transition from a contest.
Defensive positioning skills - able to play in space and one-v-one.
...you could go on and on.

The skills of the game that make elite players are hard to define. The skills of the game that 'good average players' have are easy to define...that is the beauty of sport. You can learn skills/develop excellence in skill ex independently but that doesn't make you a good player.

I suppose a lot of it comes down to which skills you can learn/develop and which are just skills you have or won't have. I mean, Macrae just isn't going to turn into a great kick no matter how much he practices. But a lot of the transition skills (willingness), positioning skills, finding space etc can be taught or come with experience. Does depend on the player though as some just don't get it.

[Mofra]

I suppose a lot of it comes down to which skills you can learn/develop and which are just skills you have or won't have. I mean, Macrae just isn't going to turn into a great kick no matter how much he practices. But a lot of the transition skills (willingness), positioning skills, finding space etc can be taught or come with experience. Does depend on the player though as some just don't get it.
Macrae led our team in inside 50s that convert to scores last year. He's a better kick than some give him credit for.
Bont's set shot kicking is an infinitely greater concern.

[mjp]

I suppose a lot of it comes down to which skills you can learn/develop and which are just skills you have or won't have. I mean, Macrae just isn't going to turn into a great kick no matter how much he practices. But a lot of the transition skills (willingness), positioning skills, finding space etc can be taught or come with experience. Does depend on the player though as some just don't get it.

I would say it is way easier to teach someone to kick than it is to teach them to find space. Tangible vs intangible skills...

[bornadog]

Macrae led our team in inside 50s that convert to scores last year. He's a better kick than some give him credit for.
Bont's set shot kicking is an infinitely greater concern.

Bont's set shots have improved dramtically this year.

[Axe Man]

Bont's set shots have improved dramtically this year.

I think dramatically improved is overstating it. He's been better in recent weeks but was still poor earlier in the season.

He's kicked 9.5 from 19 shots (47%) this year. I'm not sure on the set shot breakdown. At least he's better than Cripps.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Macrae led our team in inside 50s that convert to scores last year. He's a better kick than some give him credit for.
Bont's set shot kicking is an infinitely greater concern.

I don’t think Jack’s a bad kick. I’m more saying I don’t think you can teach him to become a more penetrating kicker

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I would say it is way easier to teach someone to kick than it is to teach them to find space. Tangible vs intangible skills...

Yeah I came to that thought just before I clicked 'Post' but did it anyway.

To a point, you can improve kicking skills. Intangibles are much harder to pickup. Especially executing them consistently. Funnily enough I think our mids are intelligent guys so these intangible skills shouldn't be difficult for them to pick up. But we do see the same problems present themselves repeatedly.

[bornadog]

I think dramatically improved is overstating it. He's been better in recent weeks but was still poor earlier in the season.

He's kicked 9.5 from 19 shots (47%) this year. I'm not sure on the set shot breakdown. At least he's better than Cripps.

More like 64%

[Axe Man]

More like 64%

I know you probably learned on an abacus back in your day but 9 goals from 19 shots is 47% on my calculator.;)

[mjp]

Yeah I came to that thought just before I clicked 'Post' but did it anyway.

To a point, you can improve kicking skills. Intangibles are much harder to pickup. Especially executing them consistently. Funnily enough I think our mids are intelligent guys so these intangible skills shouldn't be difficult for them to pick up. But we do see the same problems present themselves repeatedly.

LOL. 'Cos they don't want to defend. Knowing how to do it and wanting to do it aren't the same thing.

[comrade]

LOL. 'Cos they don't want to defend. Knowing how to do it and wanting to do it aren't the same thing.

That's how I put on 5kg during the first iso period :(

[bornadog]

I know you probably learned on an abacus back in your day but 9 goals from 19 shots is 47% on my calculator.;)

9 goals on 14 shots

[bulldogsthru&thru]

LOL. 'Cos they don't want to defend. Knowing how to do it and wanting to do it aren't the same thing.

So we have a lazy midfield group?

[Axe Man]

9 goals on 14 shots

He hasn't had 14 shots, he's had 19, I've now repeated this 3 times. You can't just ignore the out on the fulls or the ones that fall short. Josh Bruce's accuracy also looks good when you do that.

[Topdog]

9 goals on 14 shots

He has had 19 shots though. 5 of them were just so bad that they went no where near the goal.

[Cyberdoggie]

Umm.
Ability to find space in transition.
Able to fulfill multiple roles in a contest structure.
Willingness/Speed in transition from a contest.
Defensive positioning skills - able to play in space and one-v-one.
...you could go on and on.



I would say the Willingness/speed in transition from a contest is a key point.

Our biggest failing this year has been our inability to stop sides on a role until a break in play (end of quarters).
This has been our undoing in just about all our losses. Sides that could exploit the above point by opening us up on the rebound
have ripped us apart. StKilda, Carlton, Collingwood, Richmond, Brisbane for example.
All the footage i've seen of these goals, you can see our mids are quite slow to transition back. None of them other than Smith has any pace over 20meters, and they don't push back hard enough.

While we succumbed to Geelong, i was pleased that our physical efforts were much better and we were able to slow the avalanche down somewhat.

[bornadog]

He hasn't had 14 shots, he's had 19, I've now repeated this 3 times. You can't just ignore the out on the fulls or the ones that fall short. Josh Bruce's accuracy also looks good when you do that.


He has had 19 shots though. 5 of them were just so bad that they went no where near the goal.

Where is the stat for the 19 shots. I am only going by scoring shots.

Not saying I don't believe you, but you never mentioned 5 other shots that didn't make it.

EDIT: NEVER MIND FOUND IT.

[Axe Man]

Where is the stat for the 19 shots. I am only going by scoring shots.

Not saying I don't believe you, but you never mentioned 5 other shots that didn't make it.

Yes I did, it says 19 shots in my first post:


I think dramatically improved is overstating it. He's been better in recent weeks but was still poor earlier in the season.

He's kicked 9.5 from 19 shots (47%) this year. I'm not sure on the set shot breakdown. At least he's better than Cripps.

It's from the AFL website and it only stands to reason players usually have more shots than the sum of their goals and behinds.

[mjp]

I would say the Willingness/speed in transition from a contest is a key point.



So - you make some great points about this but there is (of course) another part to it.

If we acknowledge it as 'a sometime weakness', we could scheme/structure around it to a point...ours structures are pretty aggressive (which is good because counter to another comment in this thread oftentimes when we get out we get 'OUT', but we could hold our o-mids a little more defensively or even look to wrap the 6th around behind the stoppage rather than hold corridor to provide a bit of extra support...

It's all swings and roundabouts right? Ultimately the players need to defend a bit harder at the source.

[jeemak]

What did Stella do to get her groove back? This is where all the answers are.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i95cW2WRbaM

[Bulldog4life]

It annoys me no end in seeing a quality midfielder go unchecked but unless we are instructing someone to do it we will get burned at times.
Last year we got thrashed by Cripps and lost the to Carlton game, a few weeks later in a rematch we matched him up and limited his impact and we won it

We just need to have a rethink about using someone in a tagging or run with role

Both McLean & Libba have tagged with some success but not regularly.

[Bulldog4life]

Yes I did, it says 19 shots in my first post:



It's from the AFL website and it only stands to reason players usually have more shots than the sum of their goals and behinds.

And if you take out the game where he kicked 6-0 it would be a very poor % for the others.