Time to pull the Liam Jones move.

[bulldogtragic]

Schache. VFL. CHB. End of year one way or the other.

[chef]

Was thinking the same thing.

[whythelongface]

He has nothing else.

[bulldogtragic]

Was thinking the same thing.

Yep.

201cm
94kg
Athletically gifted
Usually good disposal
56 games experience

Worth seeing if he’s that very tall KPD option we need before looking to trade one.

[chef]

The only issue is his lack of intensity and being a bit soft.

But whats to lose as hes not making it as a forward.

[whythelongface]

He is way softer than Jones. Doesn’t have upper body strength and doesn’t like the hard stuff. He would make a good golfer.

[comrade]

Been saying it for ages.

[Grantysghost]

Really can’t see it. He just isn’t AFL standard.

Cant hurt to try though.

[EasternWest]

Really can’t see it. He just isn’t AFL standard.

He's AFL skill standard, but in everything else he's not.

I had high hopes for him, but it's time to put a line through.

[bulldogtragic]

The only issue is his lack of intensity and being a bit soft.

But whats to lose as hes not making it as a forward.

He rushed a contest near the line in the third (Cordy should watch how that’s done) and just after got an intercept spoil over the line. I just can’t see the MC sticking fat right now, so he plays forward in the vfl as we all look for a trade, or he moves back and we see what happens. I still like the attributes he has in the abstract, but maligned forwards like Prestagiacomo & Jones played/will play 150-200 games more as defenders. Once the JUH hype explodes his 5th in the pecking order. With Gardner still raw, Young out of favour and Cordy putrid, its time.

[1eyedog]

It's so far off the radar it's not funny. Has not played at CHB, like, ever.

He would be horrible there.

[bulldogtragic]

It's so far off the radar it's not funny. Has not played at CHB, like, ever.

He would be horrible there.

They said that about Liam Jones. Three games later he’s never been dropped from the seniors. Having him kick 40 in the vfl only marginally increases his trade value. If he can play a defensive role, maybe we don’t need to mortgage the farm to goy buy one. I see nothing to lose at this point.

[G-Mo77]

It's his only hope, there is no place for him in the forward half. He's just not good enough though, I'm willing to call it now personally. CHB is our hole, I can't fathom why we have not given Lewis more time there.

[macca]

The only issue is his lack of intensity and being a bit soft.

But whats to lose as hes not making it as a forward.

I don’t think intensity can be Taught. He seems a second too late to the contest or just gets too easily nudged out

He reminds me a lot of the Rocca brothers when they first came into the scene . At least collingwood had sense to bring in a chf to teach them from brisbane ( can’t remember his name of TOP of my head ) , but they became really good players for the pies
Even at backline your need to be pest and petulant with your opponents

[MrMahatma]

I don’t think intensity can be Taught. He seems a second too late to the contest or just gets too easily nudged out

He reminds me a lot of the Rocca brothers when they first came into the scene . At least collingwood had sense to bring in a chf to teach them from brisbane ( can’t remember his name of TOP of my head ) , but they became really good players for the pies
Even at backline your need to be pest and petulant with your opponents

Jarrad Molloy?

[Scraggers]

It’s gotta be worth a try. He can’t play with Naughton and Bruce. He just looked lost. I’d love to see him succeed, but please don’t pick him to play forward again.

[hujsh]

The only issue is his lack of intensity and being a bit soft.

But whats to lose as hes not making it as a forward.

I'd have said (and surely not been alone) the same about Dale.

Though I think he also lacks some athletic traits required as a defender. Agree there's not much to lose.

[jazzadogs]

I'm on board. I am a fan of the Shack and actually thought his last 10 minutes or so were not bad - he was continuing to present and create an option, which is where he does his best work on the lead.

In a 1v1 contest though, he is absolutely horrendous. I don't see that improving as a defender. But hey, let's give it a crack.

[comrade]

Surely he can play the Lever role of standing on his own deep in defence?

You need height and aerial prowess in defence. Besides Keath, who has his hands full most weeks, we have no one that can mark the thing.

[soupman]

I've been advocating for this since JUH's arrival. Lets face it even if he starts performing we know we will pick the Naughton, Bruce and JUH ahead of him as key forwards and English is now one of them as well.

He lacks the intensity to be a proper key forward, I'm not sure key defence plays to his strengths (he is medicore in the air and lacks assertiveness) but he isn't gonna be a key forward with us, or a ruck, so we might as well try it.

[Rocket Science]

To anyone with eyes that function the very concept has strong "Easton to the forward line" vibes.

Josh will positively terrorise EDFL backlines in due course though.

[1eyedog]

They said that about Liam Jones. Three games later he’s never been dropped from the seniors. Having him kick 40 in the vfl only marginally increases his trade value. If he can play a defensive role, maybe we don’t need to mortgage the farm to goy buy one. I see nothing to lose at this point.

Liam could always attack the ball in the air and its this ability that has allowed him to become a good spoiler and a good interceptor. Schache has neither of these traits.

Also when he went to Carlton he played half a season at CHB before being tried in the 1s in that position. Its not goona work, but if we're gonna try it he needs to start playing there in the 2s now.

[soupman]

Liam could always attack the ball in the air and its this ability that has allowed him to become a good spoiler and a good interceptor. Schache has neither of these traits.

Also when he went to Carlton he played half a season at CHB before being tried in the 1s in that position. Its not goona work, but if we're gonna try it he needs to start playing there in the 2s now.

I think this is more "well he isn't gonna make it as a key forward or ruckman" than "we think he might make it as a key defender".

[boydogs]

Lacked confidence tonight in his first game, opponent had it all over him and he ran out of ideas

[AshMac]

It’s time. Jones, Moore, Naughton - probably more - made the switch to the other end successfully.

CHB until EOY in the VFL or bust

[angelopetraglia]

Shaq doesn't have the toughness to play as a defender. I think he has basically no chance of making it in defence.

Question: How do you think he would have gone against Lynch last night? I think we all know that answer.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

It’s gotta be worth a try. He can’t play with Naughton and Bruce. He just looked lost. I’d love to see him succeed, but please don’t pick him to play forward again.

Schache was on a hiding to nothing yesterday without the support of English missing and a poor game by Bruce and then to be played as the second ruck which he clearly isn’t. The ball hardly came into our attack after half time due to Richmond’s ability to stifle our midfield, which didn’t help his cause.
I would prefer to see Bruce tried in defence where he had played with St. Kilda rather than Schache. I am yet to be convinced that playing 3 talls on the forward line is the best structure. The stronger teams use two key forwards only which works a lot better

[Happy Days]

I agree its time to pull the Liam Jones move in the sense that it’s time to stop playing him and trade him to Carlton for Caleb Daniel.

[ratsmac]

At the very least it might teach him how to compete physically. Defenders have to get their hands dirty, it's part of the job, so maybe just maybe he might learn what it takes to defend and develop the physical side of his game he obviously lacks.

[KT31]

How can you send a bloke to defence that can’t even win a one on one when leading in the forward line, Jones could at least take a grab.

[MrMahatma]

I’d rather send Bruce back when JUH is ready. Schache will end up at Hawthorn after a trade for essentially nothing and prob doing ok there.

[chef]

More likely Shaq will be playing at Seymour next season than the AFL

[bornadog]

I’d rather send Bruce back when JUH is ready. Schache will end up at Hawthorn after a trade for essentially nothing and prob doing ok there.

I said the same in another thread. At least he gives 110% when playing footy. He is aggressive at the ball and takes no prisoners. On Friday he got sick and tired of Grimes holding on to him and really let him have it in the contests.

[bulldogtragic]

He's AFL skill standard, but in everything else he's not.

I had high hopes for him, but it's time to put a line through.

Sounds like, reading that, he needs to create a Baseketball type sport. He’d easily be the Joe Cooper, Mason Wood the Doug Remer and Tom ‘Squeak Little Bitch’ Browne7.

[Bulldog Revolution]

How can you send a bloke to defence that can’t even win a one on one when leading in the forward line, Jones could at least take a grab.

Im not convinced Jones could take a grab up forward

Jones has however transformed himself physically and in his mental application to the contest - IMO Jones deserves a lot of credit for becoming the player he has

[comrade]

His only chance at carving out a career at the Bulldogs is a change of role. The odds are slim that it’ll work but the odds of him becoming a long term AFL caliber forward with us is zero.

[1eyedog]

I’d rather send Bruce back when JUH is ready. Schache will end up at Hawthorn after a trade for essentially nothing and prob doing ok there.

Bruce would be destroyed at CHB. The only redeeming feature Bruce has as a forward is his ability to act first to create separation on a lead. If he has to premeditate how the ball is coming in and react quickly to the movements of a young CHF he'll be cooked on the lead every time. He reads the flight of the ball ok 50% of the time. The other 50% of the time is the concern.

[Dancin' Douggy]

I was just about to type exactly the same thing. Bruce and Keith down there we suddenly look so mux=ch stronger. On paper at least.
I’d rather send Bruce back when JUH is ready. Schache will end up at Hawthorn after a trade for essentially nothing and prob doing ok there.

[FrediKanoute]

Moving Bruce to the backline is robbing Peter to pay Paul. Schache either makes it as a forward and forces the issue or he doesn't. Trying him as a defender is a good idea, but to me between Keath and Lew Young he is again going to struggle to get a place unless he demands a spot with form.

[MrMahatma]

Moving Bruce to the backline is robbing Peter to pay Paul. Schache either makes it as a forward and forces the issue or he doesn't. Trying him as a defender is a good idea, but to me between Keath and Lew Young he is again going to struggle to get a place unless he demands a spot with form.

My Bruce comment was also “when JUH is ready”. For the time being he isn’t so we def need to try things with defence and the talls we have at our disposal... which gives us few options.

[bornadog]

My Bruce comment was also “when JUH is ready”. For the time being he isn’t so we def need to try things with defence and the talls we have at our disposal... which gives us few options.

Bruce Back, Schache stays in and see how he goes over a number of weeks.

[Happy Days]

Bruce Back, Schache stays in and see how he goes over a number of weeks.

And then I change teams. Sorry BAD but I never want to see Schache in the firsts again, and Bruce back would be a disaster (he's having a pretty good year Friday notwithstanding, kind of like the team as a whole).

[Mantis]

And then I change teams. Sorry BAD but I never want to see Schache in the firsts again, and Bruce back would be a disaster (he's having a pretty good year Friday notwithstanding, kind of like the team as a whole).

Take out Bruce's performances against the 2 bottom teams he's actually having a pretty average year and his efforts in the 2nd half on Friday night, when we needed our experienced players to stand up, were extremely poor.. like how many times can you actually run under the ball??... and it's easy to kick Schache, but it was his first game in a year and he landed into a fierce contest against a strong & experienced defence.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Well I guess I might as well put my 10 cents worth in.

This is in regards to moving Bruce to the backline, and giving Schache a bit more of a chance to get back in to the swing of things at senior level.

Some players seem to get a free pass to perform poorly and contribute very little in tangible terms but get named week after week after week. I believe this approach to team selection may be somewhat of an Achille's heel in Bevo's personal approach to team, and man management. His refusal to play a back up ruckman for Tim English in the St.Kilda final last year killed us. His refusal to give Trengrove a game even though he was what we were screaming out for. A back up ruck/key defender, possibly. (and in my opinion probably) cost us any chance of winning that game.

Some stubborn part of his make up just refuses to budge on his personnel assessments. Anthony Scott, Ryan Gardner, Lachie Macneal were all given so much leeway and support. Lipinski plays one bad game and he's out. Schache plays one game for the year and he's crap. Get rid of him. He's useless. (I haven't heard Bevo say that, but I'm hearing this from woofers)

I would also like to address the 'robbing Peter to pay Paul' logic when discussing moving Bruce to the backline.

Please understand this.....PAUL NEEDS TO GET PAID SOMETIMES!!!! Imagine being Paul. And every time someone suggests Paul might need some help. or maybe a pay rise, or he's doing the work of 3 men and he can't be expected to labour under these conditions etc etc. But everyone keeps saying you can't rob Peter to pay Paul. And there's Peter, dripping in jewellery, driving the latest Lamborghini chariot, with a roving retinue of staff giving him foot baths and back rubs, and anointing him with precious oils, and having self affirmation sessions...... And Paul keeps being told..........well, we can't rob Peter to pay Paul.

I'm gonna flip that saying. Here's the new version.

"You can't keep starving Paul to pay Peter"

Could we please pay Paul. He needs some help right now

[jeemak]

Yeah but Paul is just a bludger who spends all his money on ciggies and booze........hang on, I thought for a moment I was trolling the Sky News Facebook page comments section for kicks. :)

We don't know if Bruce can actually play in defence. What we do know is he takes a tall up forward and if left alone becomes a threat. He's been playing OK in a potent forward line that still is only seven weeks old in a very long season. I'm not sure there's value in moving him.

[MrMahatma]

I think it’s a case of Keath and Gardner as our 2 key defenders and the rest is makeshift. I still hold out hope for Young, but if he doesn’t come good and we were playing Richmond or Geelong in a final... how’s our defence looking?

[soupman]

Bruce cannot go back. His go to move is "launch himself at the footy and hope he atleast creates a spillage". He does that in defence and it's gonna be carnage.

He actually reads the flight of the ball somewhat poorly imo, would easily be the least agile of the key defenders in the league (maybe Carlisle and Roughead are worse but both are significantly better in the air).

He's actually been pretty good this year, his most recent half is his only bad half so far where I felt he reverted to 2020 form/effort (and trust me I am super critical of him). We got him to play key forward, and I just don't see it with him as a defender.

As for Schache back, well he won't make it as a key forward. There is no key forward in the league that has made it without some kind of tenacity or intensity. Schache is a very neat player, and I really like so many of his attributes, but he will never make it as a key forward. He also is a useless ruck, so down back he goes. It doesn't really play to his strengths, but we might as well give him a chance at saving his career instead of just watching him dominate VFL for the next 18 months.

[macca]

Grimes got into Bruce head last game , and made him very Wary with all the holding , snipping and being dragged away by the play . It’s dirty but it worked ... with the missed marks . Bruce was always wary of that body contact. He needs to work out how to play this type of player and just go hard all day . I think once he does he will become a better player , but its another step up he needs to take .

I Guess that’s a good sign if he is able to work towards that next level. He needs to be elite at something
English is elite becuase his tall and agile for his height
Naughton is an elite athlete And goes hard for the mark

Jonathan brown and Nic Riewoldt went hard at marks and crash packs. NickR was a hard runner as well

[Vred]

I'd be moving Schache on for a pick, he just doesn't cut it for me anywhere on the ground, forward, back, whatever. Soft as a bag of mashmellows

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Bruce needs a good game pretty soon, but let's be honest - he's the battering ram/foil for Naughton. He's not going back and nor should he.

[soupman]

I'd be moving Schache on for a pick, he just doesn't cut it for me anywhere on the ground, forward, back, whatever. Soft as a bag of mashmellows

Presumably if anyone wanted him last year they could have grabbed him for free. Don't see how what has happened this year makes him any more desirable.

[Vred]

Presumably if anyone wanted him last year they could have grabbed him for free. Don't see how what has happened this year makes him any more desirable.

Yeah, that's what worries me, hopefully we can snag a late 2nd or early 3rd for him to some club who needs a KPF, I just don't see where he fits in with us long term

[Mofra]

Some stubborn part of his make up just refuses to budge on his personnel assessments. Anthony Scott, Ryan Gardner, Lachie Macneal were all given so much leeway and support. Lipinski plays one bad game and he's out. Schache plays one game for the year and he's crap. Get rid of him. He's useless. (I haven't heard Bevo say that, but I'm hearing this from woofers)
I disagree with this immensely.
If a player is given a role at AFL level, they must fulfil that role. Lipinski's defensive efforts are still a big area of concern, and comparing a guy who gets genuine midfield time (Lippi) against a role player who spends most of his time in the HF dead zone blocking for the forwards and putting on defensive pressure (McNeil) is impossible.

This year we are clearly focussing more on defence, hence JJ being shifted away from the D50. Players who can play their role are going to be more valuable to us than 'talented' player who play on their own terms. Gardner is quick and plays 100% TOG generally which means we save on rotations, so if he matches any other KPD option his team impact is going to be greater than a comparable player going at 90% TOG. On TV we don't see those things.

Schache: he's not a KPF, he just doesn't play that way. He's a tall flanker whose forte is endurance and skill. He has both of those things in spades but at AFL level in 2021 intensity is paramount and that just doesn't come naturally to him.
I don't think you can compare him to Jones. Jones is a supurb athlete who can accelerate and jump which means he can spoil in the backline. Schache just doesn't have natural acceleration so a good forward would create space against him.

[bornadog]

And then I change teams. Sorry BAD but I never want to see Schache in the firsts again, and Bruce back would be a disaster (he's having a pretty good year Friday notwithstanding, kind of like the team as a whole).

Fair enough, I was just throwing it out there. I don't believe Schache could play CHB either.

If you look at the tall FFs from other teams they haven't really killed us.

We carry on about Cordy on Friday, but you look at the 4 goals out of 11 that Richmond kicked - then it is not a dramatic issue.

Our issue on Friday was when Libba got 1 touch in the 3rd quarter, we didn't have another player stepping in to clear the ball from the centre. This is where we missed Dunks.

[Mantis]

If a player is given a role at AFL level, they must fulfil that role. Lipinski's defensive efforts are still a big area of concern, and comparing a guy who gets genuine midfield time (Lippi) against a role player who spends most of his time in the HF dead zone blocking for the forwards and putting on defensive pressure (McNeil) is impossible.



And don't the MC know it... he lost a couple of crucial contests on Friday night in the 3rd qtr (including one which led to the goal that gave Richmond the lead) and was quickly removed from the midfield rotations. Going to interesting to see how he's handled going forward because he's a bit to slow to be an outside player and not quite hard/ disciplined enough to be an inside player.

[Grantysghost]

Fair enough, I was just throwing it out there. I don't believe Schache could play CHB either.

If you look at the tall FFs from other teams they haven't really killed us.

We carry on about Cordy on Friday, but you look at the 4 goals out of 11 that Richmond kicked - then it is not a dramatic issue.

Our issue on Friday was when Libba got 1 touch in the 3rd quarter, we didn't have another player stepping in to clear the ball from the centre. This is where we missed Dunks.

I thought we had the players out there but didn't get the match ups right. Then we were slow to react.

Keath to Lynch
Wood to Reiwoldt
Cordy to the third, probably Castagna.

Not sure why, when it was evident in the first five minutes we stuck with Cordy on Lynch for the majority.

[bornadog]

I thought we had the players out there but didn't get the match ups right. Then we were slow to react.

Keath to Lynch
Wood to Reiwoldt
Cordy to the third, probably Castagna.

Not sure why, when it was evident in the first five minutes we stuck with Cordy on Lynch for the majority.

As I said that is not where we lost the game. Their smalls kicked 7 of 11 goals.

We lost it out of the centre in the 3rd and we were under siege. You can move all those players around, but the way the ball was coming in, any team would have lost. We had to stop guys like Houli, Bolton pumping the ball inside 50.

Our other issue was we were too slow moving the ball from the backline.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

As I said that is not where we lost the game. Their smalls kicked 7 of 11 goals.

We lost it out of the centre in the 3rd and we were under siege. You can move all those players around, but the way the ball was coming in, any team would have lost. We had to stop guys like Houli, Bolton pumping the ball inside 50.

Our other issue was we were too slow moving the ball from the backline.

Whilst what you say is true, Lynch kicked 3.5 and took 12 marks. He could have done far more damage on the scoreboard. His marking presence also meant we had extra guys go up for the spoil leaving their smalls to crumb the free ground ball. The lack of a quality KPD certainly wasn't the only reason we lost. Our mids were dominated in the 3rd. But maybe a better KPD option than Cordy could have at least limited the damage somewhat to allow our mids to get back on top.

[bulldogtragic]

And don't the MC know it... he lost a couple of crucial contests on Friday night in the 3rd qtr (including one which led to the goal that gave Richmond the lead) and was quickly removed from the midfield rotations. Going to interesting to see how he's handled going forward because he's a bit to slow to be an outside player and not quite hard/ disciplined enough to be an inside player.

Can we put him back where we found him on the half forward line. Started 2018 with 8 goals straight in the first four games. 12.5 in 2018 and 11.4 in 2019. He’s has clear AFL traits, and is a good shot for goal.

[Grantysghost]

As I said that is not where we lost the game. Their smalls kicked 7 of 11 goals.

We lost it out of the centre in the 3rd and we were under siege. You can move all those players around, but the way the ball was coming in, any team would have lost. We had to stop guys like Houli, Bolton pumping the ball inside 50.

Our other issue was we were too slow moving the ball from the backline.

Smalls feed off talls though don't they.

The midfield certainly struggled in that third quarter, but the way the Tigers play they want to bring it to ground in their forward half, lock it in and build pressure off repeat entries.

So if they kick long quickly to their talls who compete and either mark or bring it to ground for the little guys to control on the deck that's a win for them. If they don't control it they pressure our guys for the dump kick back to their wall of defenders; rinse and repeat!

So for me, their aerial dominance particularly deep forward helped them win the game, on the back of their midfield getting on top.
We can't just rely on the mids to win all the time can we?

[1eyedog]

Whilst what you say is true, Lynch kicked 3.5 and took 12 marks. He could have done far more damage on the scoreboard. His marking presence also meant we had extra guys go up for the spoil leaving their smalls to crumb the free ground ball. The lack of a quality KPD certainly wasn't the only reason we lost. Our mids were dominated in the 3rd. But maybe a better KPD option than Cordy could have at least limited the damage somewhat to allow our mids to get back on top.

As much as it pains me to say it Lynch destroyed us. Every time the high ball went in I clenched my butt waiting for Lynch to get hold of it. It was that bad for us. He could (should have kicked 6), and his presence down there gave their mids so much confidence and desire to win the ball and pump it long. It was too easy. Playing an opposition key forward into form is our speciality but we do ourselves no favours playing a guy 9cm shorter and 15kg lighter against him.

[comrade]

As much as it pains me to say it Lynch destroyed us. Every time the high ball went in I clenched my butt waiting for Lynch to get hold of it. It was that bad for us. He could (should have kicked 6), and his presence down there gave their mids so much confidence and desire to win the ball and pump it long. It was too easy. Playing an opposition key forward into form is our speciality but we do ourselves no favours playing a guy 9cm shorter and 15kg lighter against him.

Not to mention slower as well. Zaine needed a scooter to have any chance of keeping up.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

As much as it pains me to say it Lynch destroyed us. Every time the high ball went in I clenched my butt waiting for Lynch to get hold of it. It was that bad for us. He could (should have kicked 6), and his presence down there gave their mids so much confidence and desire to win the ball and pump it long. It was too easy. Playing an opposition key forward into form is our speciality but we do ourselves no favours playing a guy 9cm shorter and 15kg lighter against him.

Anyone who's tall and remotely competent with basic skills is bound to have a good day against us. The stress will repeat this week with McKay and we'll no doubt play Casboult into some form.

Incidentally, this is exactly what Melbourne did well against the Tigers the week before. Admittedly, it helped being wet and the tigers' pressure was certainly not to the same level as it was against us, but the Dees setup so well in defence that anything coming in was picked off straight away. There were no chances for their smalls to do anything.

[SquirrelGrip]

As I said that is not where we lost the game. Their smalls kicked 7 of 11 goals.

We lost it out of the centre in the 3rd and we were under siege. You can move all those players around, but the way the ball was coming in, any team would have lost. We had to stop guys like Houli, Bolton pumping the ball inside 50.

Our other issue was we were too slow moving the ball from the backline.

I completely agree. We lost the third quarter with clearances and speed - speed by foot and speed of ball movement. We really missed Van Der Meer and McNeil this week providing defensive pressure across half forward and along our defensive web. Hannan was picked too soon and his body and speed weren't where they should be. I'm hoping he's better for the run.

West, whilst always looking busy, is not quick and he is ill-disciplined. He should immediately be back at the VFL until he can learn to concentrate for the full four quarters. He should watch Scott who is half the footballer West is, but keeps his head in the game and follows the team rules to the letter.

Of course we lack another tall defender. Gardner overtook Cordy and Young because he has better size and strength to physically compete with the bigger opposition forwards. We truly miss him. Young is the only other one on the list as a defender of Gardner's size (apart from moving forwards back) and he clearly isn't doing what has been asked of him in a team sense, and that is why he is playing VFL. Cordy will always be undersized and have others better skilled, but he will do his best to follow the team rules.

Amidst all the talk of Dunkley, I felt the player we missed most this week was Tim English. The Tigers really struggle to stop forwards with extreme height (Mason Cox, come on down) and he could've clunked a couple where instead we expected Schack to take those pack marks (which he never has). Also Tim could have wandered down back in the third quarter to block their run and long kicks, whilst Stef stuck with Nankervis.

[Grantysghost]

As much as it pains me to say it Lynch destroyed us. Every time the high ball went in I clenched my butt waiting for Lynch to get hold of it. It was that bad for us. He could (should have kicked 6), and his presence down there gave their mids so much confidence and desire to win the ball and pump it long. It was too easy. Playing an opposition key forward into form is our speciality but we do ourselves no favours playing a guy 9cm shorter and 15kg lighter against him.
I'm waiting for Bevo to give him his coach's votes.

[1eyedog]

Anyone who's tall and remotely competent with basic skills is bound to have a good day against us. The stress will repeat this week with McKay and we'll no doubt play Casboult into some form.

Incidentally, this is exactly what Melbourne did well against the Tigers the week before. Admittedly, it helped being wet and the tigers' pressure was certainly not to the same level as it was against us, but the Dees setup so well in defence that anything coming in was picked off straight away. There were no chances for their smalls to do anything.

Having May, Lever and an improving Tomlinson helped too!

[comrade]

Having May, Lever and an improving Tomlinson helped too!

Their defence is the anti-Bulldogs. More height than you can poke a stick at, and that’s without considering Gawn who also floats back there to stand in the hole.

[DOG GOD]

Having May, Lever and an improving Tomlinson helped too!

Oh to have that backline.

[Axe Man]

Having May, Lever and an improving Tomlinson helped too!


Their defence is the anti-Bulldogs. More height than you can poke a stick at, and that’s without considering Gawn who also floats back there to stand in the hole.

Tomlinson is gone for the year with an ACL, unfortunately for him and the Demons. They now have to decide whether to move McDonald back or bring in someone else.

Lever and May were excellent against us in the pre-season game, but we smashed them everywhere else so it didn't really matter. In a few weeks when we face them I doubt our midfield will get things on their own terms quite so easily.

[DOG GOD]

Tomlinson is gone for the year with an ACL, unfortunately for him and the Demons. They now have to decide whether to move McDonald back or bring in someone else.

Lever and May were excellent against us in the pre-season game, but we smashed them everywhere else so it didn't really matter. In a few weeks when we face them I doubt our midfield will get things on their own terms quite so easily.

I’d say McDonald will go back and they’ll use Brown now.

I agree re: lever and May. Both were great, and that was on the back of our brilliant midfield on the day. Demons will be a lot stronger, but when we get the chance to go fwd, if we bomb it, lever and May will once again have great games.

[Axe Man]

I’d say McDonald will go back and they’ll use Brown now.

I agree re: lever and May. Both were great, and that was on the back of our brilliant midfield on the day. Demons will be a lot stronger, but when we get the chance to go fwd, if we bomb it, lever and May will once again have great games.

Brown was already in on the weekend. Weideman would be the likely candidate to return to the forward line if McDonald goes back.

[Dancin' Douggy]

I totally agree. And the opposite is also true. Any tall and remotely competent defender we can trundle out will at least relieve some of the stress.
Anyone who's tall and remotely competent with basic skills is bound to have a good day against us. The stress will repeat this week with McKay and we'll no doubt play Casboult into some form.

Incidentally, this is exactly what Melbourne did well against the Tigers the week before. Admittedly, it helped being wet and the tigers' pressure was certainly not to the same level as it was against us, but the Dees setup so well in defence that anything coming in was picked off straight away. There were no chances for their smalls to do anything.

[bulldogtragic]

It’s happening, Morpheus is fighting Neo. Catch that replay, Schache is playing CHB and really well so far.

[azabob]

It’s happening, Morpheus is fighting Neo. Catch that replay, Schache is playing CHB and really well so far.

Legit?

[I'm Not Bitter Anymore!]

Fact

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Was it a dream?

[bulldogtragic]

Was it a dream?

The coach stuffed up and put him forward. But on a thirty minute audition, of intercept marks, spoils, great running ground gets, good ball use and decision making, we’d be derelict not to give him more time there next week. If you knew nothing about this game and players, you’d say he was the best looking tall defender on eye in the way he moved and went about his business.

[The Adelaide Connection]

The coach stuffed up and put him forward. But on a thirty minute audition, of intercept marks, spoils, great running ground gets, good ball use and decision making, we’d be derelict not to give him more time there next week. If you knew nothing about this game and players, you’d say he was the best looking tall defender on eye in the way he moved and went about his business.

I am guessing he was thrown back in the third? They needed to do something to hold up scoring while North had the cyclonic winds.

[comrade]

John Longmire was on AFL 360 last night and spoke about Nick Blakey. He was struggling to find form forward and was dropped to the VFL and played as a defender, a role he'd never played in previously. He found his feet in the role and played as a defender against the Eagles (and did well). There are numerous examples of highly rated but struggling young forwards becoming quality defenders.We need to follow this through with Schache, it's his only chance at a career with us.

[Axe Man]

John Longmire was on AFL 360 last night and spoke about Nick Blakey. He was struggling to find form forward and was dropped to the VFL and played as a defender, a role he'd never played in previously. He found his feet in the role and played as a defender against the Eagles (and did well). There are numerous examples of highly rated but struggling young forwards becoming quality defenders.We need to follow this through with Schache, it's his only chance at a career with us.

I tried to tell everyone Blakey was playing back in the match committee thread but nobody seems to believe me. There is still discussion about Williams playing tall. I'm not sure who he is going to play tall on?

Agree on Schache though, what is there to lose?

[comrade]

I tried to tell everyone Blakey was playing back in the match committee thread but nobody seems to believe me. There is still discussion about Williams playing tall. I'm not sure who he is going to play tall on?

Agree on Schache though, what is there to lose?

He literally outbodied and took a contested mark on someone in defence on the weekend. When has he ever done that?

[bulldogtragic]

He literally outbodied and took a contested mark on someone in defence on the weekend. When has he ever done that?

And be the steadying influence under the pump and use his great disposal to set up team mates up the ground. There was one ground ball he attacked at speed and may have even picked it up one handed in the end too. Let’s see what happens. Was Bailey Dale ripping it up as a forward last year? Now possibly AA defender. Josh has plenty of skills, just not as a KPF. So harness them elsewhere like we’ve been doing since Bevo walked in the door.

[comrade]

And be the steadying influence under the pump and use his great disposal to set up team mates up the ground. There was one ground ball he attacked at speed and may have even picked it up one handed in the end too. Let’s see what happens. Was Bailey Dale ripping it up as a forward last year? Now possibly AA defender. Josh has plenty of skills, just not as a KPF. So harness them elsewhere like we’ve been doing since Bevo walked in the door.

I wish journos would stop asking Bevo dumb questions in pressers like 'was kicking straight a focus this week?' and ask the question on everyone's lips 'what about Schache in defence?'.

[bulldogtragic]

I wish journos would stop asking Bevo dumb questions in pressers like 'was kicking straight a focus this week?' and ask the question on everyone's lips 'what about Schache in defence?'.

All anyone outside our club know if JS was drafted at Pick 2 and is a great set shot. So when Bevo signs off on this move he’ll look like a genius again. If JS plays this week, have a shot of your favourite liquor for every ‘Pick 2’ and ‘great set shot’ (or similar). It might get messy if he gets a couple of set shots though by half time.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

We have so much talent up forward now which is a strange position to be in for our club, especially with Darcy coming through. And we're so light on in KPD so you'd hope we're experimenting with Josh as a defender.

If we lose Young and Schache fizzles away in the VFL as a forward, I'd be pretty disappointed. They're 2 big questions marks at the moment. Why isn't Young getting more time and why hasn't Josh been trialled down back.

[bulldogtragic]

It’s complete. He’s a KPD.

[chef]

Its happening. About time we tried.

[bulldogtragic]

Q1 Schache the KPD & 2nd Ruck

6 Disposals (2 Contested, 4 Intercept Possessions)
6 Kicks
1 Mark (Contested)
3 Rebound 50’s
1 Score Involvement
2 Pressure Acts
115m Metres Gained
21 AFL Fantasy Points
Multiple ruck contested


Get on this while there’s tickets left.

[hujsh]

Might get a few weeks at it too... *!*!*!*!
Find one lose another

[azabob]

Q1 Schache the KPD & 2nd Ruck

6 Disposals (2 Contested, 4 Intercept Possessions)
6 Kicks
1 Mark (Contested)
3 Rebound 50’s
1 Score Involvement
2 Pressure Acts
115m Metres Gained
21 AFL Fantasy Points
Multiple ruck contested


Get on this while there’s tickets left.

You left out the stat where he had to jump the fence to retrieve the footy.

[bulldogtragic]

First Half: Schache the KPD & 2nd Ruck

10 Disposals (4 Contested, 4 Intercept Possessions)
8 Kicks
2 Handballs
60% Disposal Efficiency (in the rain)
2 Marks (1 Contested)
4 Rebound 50’s
2 Hit Outs
1 Clearance
1 Stoppage Clearance
1 Tackle
1 Score Involvement
1 One Percenters
1 Partial Smoother (stopped Fritsch kicking a goal)
8 Pressure Acts
117m Metres Gained
41 AFL Fantasy Points
1 Frees For
0 Frees Against
10-20 ruck contested
0 Goals conceded to his opponent


We just found a 201cm mature KPD, with intercept skills and great general skills with elite endurance. Didn’t even have to trade for this KPD.

[Happy Days]

That effort to end the half on McDonald was pretty concerning and we’re really lucky he had support.

He pretty much has to be a gun KPD now though so lets go?

[bulldogtragic]

First Game: Schache the KPD & 2nd Ruck

17 Disposals (7 Contested, 7 Intercept Possessions)
12 Kicks
5 Handballs
76% Disposal Efficiency (in the rain)

6 Marks (2 Contested)
4 Rebound 50’s

4 Hit Outs
2 Clearances
2 Stoppage Clearances
4 Tackles

3 Score Involvements
4 One Percenters
1 Partial Smoother (stopped Fritsch kicking a goal)
15 Pressure Acts
123m Metres Gained

85 AFL Fantasy Points (the second highest game by any KPD this year!!)

1 Frees For
0 Frees Against

15-25 Ruck contested
121 of 127 Minutes Played (Elite Endurance)
0 Goals conceded to his opponent
3-4 Directly Saved Goals


We just found a 201cm mature KPD, with intercept skills and great general skills with elite endurance. Didn’t even have to trade for this KPD. We’ve been waiting to see it. Now it’s time to permanently move his magnet back.

[chef]

Could Shaq be our Hamling?

[Testekill]

Absolutely brilliant bringing him in, he defended well and he's a phenomenal user of the football in general play. He has to keep his spot in the team now

[macca]

Could Shaq be our Hamling?

He could be better. His a good mark, good kick and provide chop out in the ruck. Really happy for him that his had a good game

Well done Josh. His always had the physical tools. His intensity and aggression has to go up every game.

[comrade]

Well, I hate to say I told you so but... ;)

[The Bulldogs Bite]

He couldn't have been more impressive.

Big few weeks coming up for him, the conditions made it easier for defenders as the ball movement was slower, that might be a concern with his lack of leg speed but he'll get every chance with Keath out now.

[bulldogtragic]

Could Shaq be our Hamling?

I think so. But Shaq is a far more offensive threat with his field kicking.

Only one of Keath’s games this year was higher than Shaq tonight. Higher than Gardner, Young & Cordy too. I so pumped for him. He needed to be moved elsewhere on the ground to take full advantage of his skills and endurance. The Liam Jones move. Any club that was hoping to grab him for a Future 5th Rounder just realised he is seeing at a minimum his contract next year.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Well, I hate to say I told you so but... ;)

No you don't!
And I for one, welcome your prescient thinking.

I wonder if it's a case of the MC going......welll we don't have any other options... he's done ok in limited time in VFL.... he's on the cusp of having no right being on our list going forward... let's see what he's got.

He did have some moments late where I thought his lack of leg speed was going to catch him out, but he definitely had more moments through the game that made it a positive move.
Well done Josh..

[comrade]

No you don't!
And I for one, welcome your prescient thinking.

I wonder if it's a case of the MC going......welll we don't have any other options... he's done ok in limited time in VFL.... he's on the cusp of having no right being on our list going forward... let's see what he's got.

He did have some moments late where I thought his lack of leg speed was going to catch him out, but he definitely had more moments through the game that made it a positive move.
Well done Josh..

I honestly don't know how the coaching group goes from not ever trying him in defence beyond a few sporadic quarters at VFL level when it was clear a change of role was required if he was to salvage a career with us, to inserting him into the D50 in our biggest game of the year. It's bizarre all round but I am rapt he got his chance and took it.

[jeemak]

And he'll be better for the run. Hasn't played much footy at the top level these past couple of years and wouldn't have burst the lungs nearly as much as he did today so it's all upside now.

Good call from those who kept banging on about playing him back. I just didn't think it was ever going to happen but there was something about this week after his inclusion that made me think it would like a lot of others and I'm so happy for him.

[macca]

No you don't!
And I for one, welcome your prescient thinking.

I wonder if it's a case of the MC going......welll we don't have any other options... he's done ok in limited time in VFL.... he's on the cusp of having no right being on our list going forward... let's see what he's got.

He did have some moments late where I thought his lack of leg speed was going to catch him out, but he definitely had more moments through the game that made it a positive move.
Well done Josh..

Josh could be anything. He just has to maintain his intensity every week.

Could he be like a Charlie Dixon, and be the 200+cm monster?
Is he the The super athletic type that could play multiple position i.e Blivcas or Stanley.

[jeemak]

I honestly don't know how the coaching group goes from not ever trying him in defence beyond a few sporadic quarters at VFL level when it was clear a change of role was required if he was to salvage a career with us, to inserting him into the D50 in our biggest game of the year. It's bizarre all round but I am rapt he got his chance and took it.

They read WOOF.

And they also wait until the time is right. His inclusion and defencive opportunities aligned with Gardner going down again. We wanted the three talls as stated by the MC, and the planets aligned for him.

Now for Young to come in to replace Keath, and for Wood to come in also to be the organiser with Duryea.

[GVGjr]

I honestly don't know how the coaching group goes from not ever trying him in defence beyond a few sporadic quarters at VFL level when it was clear a change of role was required if he was to salvage a career with us, to inserting him into the D50 in our biggest game of the year. It's bizarre all round but I am rapt he got his chance and took it.

We had a lot of discussion about this at the start of the year but it's good the MC gave him the chance.
Not only did he take his chance he did it in poor conditions like how we basically sat him out of a half last year.

Keath is a very good field kick so if we can get this pairing working we can really transition the ball out of the back line.

[whythelongface]

I honestly don't know how the coaching group goes from not ever trying him in defence beyond a few sporadic quarters at VFL level when it was clear a change of role was required if he was to salvage a career with us, to inserting him into the D50 in our biggest game of the year. It's bizarre all round but I am rapt he got his chance and took it.

It was a bold move. Could easily have backfired but testament to their fortitude with our dwindling key defensive stocks. That has to be one of the best decisions by the MC. Really just brilliant.

[macca]

To win a premiership we need these positions covered which we were up against Melb:
1 Fulltime ruckman or 1x main Ruck + 1 ruck fwd : Gawn + Jackson

2 good marking backman : lever + May
3. good midfield with depth : petracca/vinney/brayshaw
4. 2 gun fwd with crumbing smalls. Macdonald + fristch


we have them covered today. Only the fulltime ruck still worries me.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I honestly don't know how the coaching group goes from not ever trying him in defence beyond a few sporadic quarters at VFL level when it was clear a change of role was required if he was to salvage a career with us, to inserting him into the D50 in our biggest game of the year. It's bizarre all round but I am rapt he got his chance and took it.

I'm not sure it was as clear cut as that. It's easier to make a move like that when a player shows effort in hitting contests. Not sure Josh has shown that before.
Maybe career on the line has sparked something in him?

I'm actually tantalised by the options it opens up for Bevo in the finals.
Mantis mentioned it, in terms of moving Naughton back.

Imagine in a final, having the ability to switch things up by swapping Naughton with Schache if we needed to change things up.
That could be interesting.

[bulldogtragic]

Well, I hate to say I told you so but... ;)

I don’t mind saying it. It was a niche few of us pushing it. But everyone gets to share the love. I’ve always had a soft spot for Josh and believed he had the necessary attributes. Belief is one of the biggest factors for Josh and he he can take take so much out of Tonight and I’m sure the coaches can drive this home. If he can get momentum of belief from here on out, then I’m not prepared to rule anything out for him this year.

[Happy Days]

I think the plan was to effectively tag Jackson and Keath’s injury kind of spannered it. Whatever who cares about the working out.

I don’t think he can be a genuine KPD but definitely think he can be a Lukosius style third tall who uses it phenomenally.

[bulldogtragic]

I think the plan was to effectively tag Jackson and Keath’s injury kind of spannered it. Whatever who cares about the working out.

I don’t think he can be a genuine KPD but definitely think he can be a Lukosius style third tall who uses it phenomenally.

Is that better or worse? :D

[KT31]

Kudos to Schache tonight, really stood up when required.
I was one who doubted his heart was in it, or capable, elated he proved me wrong tonight.

[azabob]

Kudos to Schache tonight, really stood up when required.

Don’t you mean kudos to BT and Comrade? ;) All Schache did was play a good game.

[jeemak]

I think the plan was to effectively tag Jackson and Keath’s injury kind of spannered it. Whatever who cares about the working out.

I don’t think he can be a genuine KPD but definitely think he can be a Lukosius style third tall who uses it phenomenally.

If he becomes a reliable second tall with a velvet left foot to open up the ground I'm fine with that.

His disposal out of defence hasn't ever been a worry for me. What has was his confidence due to being out-competed in the air and at the contest, and having the confidence sucked out of him to use his velvet left foot.

We saw a glimpse tonight, it's not descending into reach around stages yet but a door has opened.

[bulldogtragic]

Apart from the fact he’s a good mark, great ball user, reads the play well and can play nearly 95% while rucking too, this is a BIG thing for us:

Cordy 195cm
Gardner 197cm
Keath 197cm
Schache 201cm

With resting ruckman and three headed monster becoming more and more a thing. That extra height plus reach adds in some variety to our choice. (Young not included as I doubt he’s around next year. Height taken from the afl app. If your not happy with them please don’t derail another thread)

[Happy Days]

If he becomes a reliable second tall with a velvet left foot to open up the ground I'm fine with that.

His disposal out of defence hasn't ever been a worry for me. What has was his confidence due to being out-competed in the air and at the contest, and having the confidence sucked out of him to use his velvet left foot.

We saw a glimpse tonight, it's not descending into reach around stages yet but a door has opened.

Yeah agree with that. He can get down real bad and his whole game goes with it.

[dog town]

The big test will come when the opposition can get some speed on the ball. He has shown tonight he can play his role in our system and be hard to get past on a relatively slow play. That’s a great start, might mean he becomes the higher tall defender and leaves others for the deep role.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Great performance from Schache given he’d hardly played all year

[jeemak]

The big test will come when the opposition can get some speed on the ball. He has shown tonight he can play his role in our system and be hard to get past on a relatively slow play. That’s a great start, might mean he becomes the higher tall defender and leaves others for the deep role.

Hopefully this is where his smarts come into it. He's not kicked goals or performed well based on much else than that fact he's just so bloody talented. Not trying to take anything away from having to work hard to cut it at AFL level but that's essentially why he's only been able to do it sporadically.

He won't ever be the quickest, but if he can take a few steps forward in getting used to running to the extent a defender must and couple that with his footy brain and talent he could pan out well in the role.

[jazzadogs]

I'm really happy for Josh. He has become an important part of our plans for the next few weeks at least, and I hope that he continues to build his defensive craft.

There were definitely still times tonight where he got lost, or outsmarted by his opponent - the main example I can think of is when Brown attacked the ball to mark over 3 smaller Dogs while Schack stood rooted to the spot a few meters back. But that will come.

There were plenty of positive signs, and I am looking forward to seeing him develop in the role. He can be a real POD with his kicking skills coming out of the backline.

[Twodogs]

Hopefully this is where his smarts come into it. He's not kicked goals or performed well based on much else than that fact he's just so bloody talented. Not trying to take anything away from having to work hard to cut it at AFL level but that's essentially why he's only been able to do it sporadically.

He won't ever be the quickest, but if he can take a few steps forward in getting used to running to the extent a defender must and couple that with his footy brain and talent he could pan out well in the role.

That's what I have always thought about Josh. He's got as much talent as any player I've seen.

It'd be a huge shame to see him waste all that talent, hopefully tonight is his first small step towards that not happening.

[comrade]

Mark Stevens tweeted that Schache has been 'quietly training for the role' over the last few weeks.

[jazzadogs]

Mark Stevens tweeted that Schache has been 'quietly training for the role' over the last few weeks.

I mean, any journalist that did their job could have found out that he played some time in the backline at VFL level and it was his likely role leading in to the game. But no, still reported as a 'surprise' from Bevo that he played in defence.

It's a shame there weren't more VFL games for him to work on it, but he obviously showed enough to earn his opportunity - another case of us having only a portion of the information the MC does.

[bulldogtragic]

I think of my heart rate. A half decent cross to a 201cm guy is going to be marked. From there his kicking is of good decisions, quick, accurate and can open up the play which hits targets to advantage. This keeps my heart rate in check. A lot more when compared to say Crozier or Cordy used as the link man setting up the play or switching. 201cm athletes shouldn’t be be great kicks, and great kicks shouldn’t be 201cm. I think the best use of height and general play foot skills is down back. If he sneaks down when second rucking we know he’s a gun shot at goal too. The idea that our defence is taller, mobile and of better foot skills is such a great potential wildcard.

Plus remembering, Josh has never done this at AFL level or in his juniors. No preseason with the defensive coach, learning the system week in and out. It stands to reason with specific coaching, a crash course in our system and belief he’s going to get better this year. It’s not as if this performance was against North on GF or St Kilda. Add in a preseason and his manic training he does over the break and there’s a lot of cause for optimism.

Moreover, in my various trading threads I’ve said the best case is Josh is tried down back and he becomes our ‘KPD recruit’ to strengthen defence for next year. Because if that happens, we can go a little harder on a good ruck knowing we’re not doing nothing about our KPD stock. If we get a month or two of form that gives us confidence we have four options in Josh, Keath, Gardner & Cordy with KPFs in Naughton, Bruce, Jamarra, English resting there and Darcy then our book ends look good without too much effort. Our mids are elite. The best ruck we can find covers everything off nicely and Schache as our defencsive recruit makes that easier as there’s no trade and there’s a year to run on his contract. That also saves on the salary which opens up more options to improve the list. If this goes how I hope it will and expect it will, the benefits on all fronts are huge.

[azabob]

Mark Stevens tweeted that Schache has been 'quietly training for the role' over the last few weeks.

Let’s just say with Stevo latest career shift I no longer see his tweets!

[comrade]

Let’s just say with Stevo latest career shift I no longer see his tweets!

Yeah, it's a weird one.

The tweets he actually writes are still quite AFL/Dogs oriented.

It's the ones he shares which are embarrassing for him.

[Mofra]

I was wrong. Schache might be a decent defender. I think he'll get caught out with speed here or there, but Fletcher Roberts was slower than treacle but was smart enough to make it work. Schache is an upgrade.

[bornadog]

Can we rely on Schache in the finals to be our CHB? He has had limited exposure in the role?

[bulldogtragic]

Can we rely on Schache in the finals to be our CHB? He has had limited exposure in the role?

We’ll see, he’s for third tall than CHB. He’s got the height to take the resting ruckman and tank to ruck too. I’d take him over Crozier in a heart beat. He doesn’t need to take on the really big forwards. Josh rucking also means Bruce doesn’t have to so our forward line is stronger throughout the game.

[GVGjr]

Can we rely on Schache in the finals to be our CHB? He has had limited exposure in the role?

It's a shame we didn't give him some chances last year and earlier this year but he got through and tight encounter in difficult conditions so it's a promising start. Need to give him the oppositions best forward each week now to see how he goes.

[azabob]

We’ll see, he’s for third tall than CHB. He’s got the height to take the resting ruckman and tank to ruck too. I’d take him over Crozier in a heart beat. He doesn’t need to take on the really big forwards. Josh rucking also means Bruce doesn’t have to so our forward line is stronger throughout the game.

BT, for mine Schache came into the team to follow Jackson around which meant playing back and changing in the ruck.

In the next few weeks I can’t see him performing the same role unless Young comes in.

[Topdog]

I know he got at least 2 but how many intercept marks did he get?

[Go_Dogs]

Like him in the role.

Interesting Bevos press conference that it seemingly has been a discussion point for a while, but they had resisted the move because it’s tough playing forward at Footscray and they rate Schache as a forward. Given the competition for spots and likely another draftee coming, hard to see this not being the go for Josh.

As mentioned above, his field kicking is a big plus as a defender. He’s already our most assured key position defender with ball in hand!

[bornadog]

I know he got at least 2 but how many intercept marks did he get?

17 disposals, six marks and seven intercepts for Josh Schache, the defender.

Good interview here (https://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/video/987156/josh-schache-felt-like-a-whole-new-game-?videoId=987156&modal=true&type=video&publishFrom=1627133263001&fbclid=IwAR1nwGIoBPo9aZ3kB3aNrVhNaO8BNHgTYefJ38xryo28KBdjq6l BNhehTk8)

[comrade]

According to training footage the club just put out, Schache with the Domestique guernsey at training this week!

A week is a long time in football.

[bulldogtragic]

According to training footage the club just put out, Schache with the Domestique guernsey at training this week!

A week is a long time in football.

Who could have predicted such a move for Josh? This came out of the blue.

[Happy Days]

I think I didn't really appreciate how good he played on the night because I was admittedly waiting for him to fail. Watching the game back he really was excellent.

I do wanna see him on a dry track with the speed of the game at 100% before I fully co-sign, but he couldn't have made a better start.

[comrade]

I think I didn't really appreciate how good he played on the night because I was admittedly waiting for him to fail. Watching the game back he really was excellent.

I do wanna see him on a dry track with the speed of the game at 100% before I fully co-sign, but he couldn't have made a better start.

There was one scrap in the middle of the ground where he dove in, won the hard ball and hand balled it out towards one of our guys and I was like 'who is this?'.

[bulldogtragic]

I think I didn't really appreciate how good he played on the night because I was admittedly waiting for him to fail. Watching the game back he really was excellent.

I do wanna see him on a dry track with the speed of the game at 100% before I fully co-sign, but he couldn't have made a better start.

I was pretty much the opposite. I was tracking his stats the whole game. As great as they were, his game was better than what the stat sheet had. What happens from here is up to him to keep going. But as far as a debut KPD game goes against the top team, that as good as you could hope for. I’m hopeful for what he can do this year. But give him 6 months working with Dale Morris and there’s cause for optimism. Think, Alex Keath was a gun athlete but didn’t show how good of a KPD he could be until he was 27. Josh hasn’t turned 24 yet.

[WBFC4FFC]

Admittedly Keith was wasting his time with cricket at the same age versus playing for GC.

[bulldogtragic]

Admittedly Keith was wasting his time with cricket at the same age versus playing for GC.

That’s kind of the point. Crows pumped time and training into him as a 24-25 year old with no base. He’s continued to grow into the role. Josh is advanced as he has the base. Just needs the specialist coaching and development from here. A month in the seniors with Keath out might be the making of him.

[jeemak]

I'm being super cautious in my optimism with this move. I want everything about it to work because it can do so much for us moving forward, but only a larger sample size against a few different opponents and under different game conditions will sway me either way.

[Dancin' Douggy]

I was so happy for him. He must have slept well that night. Was in important cog in an important win. Would have given his confidence and sense of value to the team a huge boost. Let’s hope it’s the start of a new phase of his career

[comrade]

I think I didn't really appreciate how good he played on the night because I was admittedly waiting for him to fail. Watching the game back he really was excellent.

I do wanna see him on a dry track with the speed of the game at 100% before I fully co-sign, but he couldn't have made a better start.

https://www.afl.com.au/stats/stats-pro#/Discover/CD_I993841/Schache-Josh

You can see every involvement via Stats Pro.

Biggest things that stood out:

- he was ultra clean at ground level, particularly early when conditions were sloppiest
- when he takes possession he makes the right decision but most importantly, he makes it quickly
- his tackling and contested stuff was good

Looking forward to seeing how he backs it up this weekend.

[The Pie Man]

https://www.afl.com.au/stats/stats-pro#/Discover/CD_I993841/Schache-Josh

You can see every involvement via Stats Pro.

Biggest things that stood out:

- he was ultra clean at ground level, particularly early when conditions were sloppiest
- when he takes possession he makes the right decision but most importantly, he makes it quickly
- his tackling and contested stuff was good

Looking forward to seeing how he backs it up this weekend.

The ground level stuff was very encouraging, he was quick to get boot to ball in close.

Even better to hear that Bevo thinks he runs to the right spots defensively.

Great signs

[1eyedog]

There was one scrap in the middle of the ground where he dove in, won the hard ball and hand balled it out towards one of our guys and I was like 'who is this?'.

And it resulted in an inside 50

[Bulldog4life]

I was so happy for him. He must have slept well that night. Was in important cog in an important win. Would have given his confidence and sense of value to the team a huge boost. Let’s hope it’s the start of a new phase of his career

Bevo said they MC still rate him as a forward too so can we expect the old switcharoo with Naughty when things get hairy.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Bevo said they MC still rate him as a forward too so can we expect the old switcharoo with Naughty when things get hairy.
Quite a brilliant outcome if we have a decent Key defender we can swing forward, who is also a decent forward with sublime set shot skills.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Yeah agree with that. He can get down real bad and his whole game goes with it.

That's the thing. It does not matter so much if we doubt Schache but he has to prove it to himself. One goal giving stuff up could erode the faith.
Thankfully we have a less challenging opponent and enough games for Schache to consolidate his position and self faith before September.

[jeemak]

It's going to be a massive challenge for him to keep his head up if a forward or two gets hold of him, which is something that happens to all defenders at some point in time.

[comrade]

https://i.ibb.co/vXmzCBF/AFL-Players-Western-Bulldogs.png (https://imgbb.com/)

From the Western Bulldogs website.

We did it, guys. We did it.

[bulldogtragic]

WOOF to the rescue. Again.

Next is lining up at CHB on the team sheet later tonight.

[jeemak]

I love how they've updated Josh's position, but they still have Sam Lloyd pictured at the start of the list without a number

[bulldogtragic]

WOOF to the rescue. Again.

Next is lining up at CHB on the team sheet later tonight.

There it is:

CHB: Josh Schache

Great to read.

[westdog54]

Delete

[bulldogtragic]

Game Two: Schache the KPD & 2nd Ruck

12 Disposals (4 Contested, plus 5 Intercept Possessions - Game High for KPPs for Both Sides)
11 Kicks
1 Handballs
58% Disposal Efficiency

8 Marks (1 Contested) (Game High, Both Sides)
4 Rebound 50’s

2 Clearances
2 Stoppage Clearances

1 Inside 50
1 Score Involvement

1 Partial Smoother (fingertips stopped Adelaide getting a shot on goal)
4 Pressure Acts
291m Metres Gained (Most of any KPP from either side)
100% Game Time Played (only player on ground to do so. Elite Endurance allows more interchange rotations for our mids)
56 AFL Fantasy Points

0 Frees For (outrageous one not paid to him)
1 Frees Against (not a Free in any reading of the rules)

4 Goals conceded to his opponent


Clearly in his second game he has some work to do, but it is his second game. The first to Fogarty he had position, but needed to hold the position and got moved. Something to work on. The second, it wasn’t cleared which it should’ve been easily and Himmelberg had the easy sit. The third is not on Josh, he got smashed in the head and illegally blocked and such Walker got the goal with no free paid. Walker got a late one holding the front position.

Schache should feel good in that he wracked up the most marks on the ground from either side, with five intercepts to boot (Game High for KPPs). Walker the second coming on Christ apparently should’ve been held to just the one goal in the last half when Schache had him. To keep him to one legit goal is a good effort in just your second game. He shouldn’t lose any confidence in this, it was going to happen at some point as it does all KPDs starting off. But the review and more time with Dale Morris this week gives him tangible things to improve, and things he has the power to improve.

After two games, it’s looking promising.

[Bulldog Joe]

He also had the free paid against him for block/front on contact when he was trying to get back to contest. Thought it was a very harsh decision.

He did get outmarked/outpositioned a couple of times, but plenty to work with.

[bulldogtragic]

He also had the free paid against him for block/front on contact when he was trying to get back to contest. Thought it was a very harsh decision.

He did get outmarked/outpositioned a couple of times, but plenty to work with.

Was that paid against Josh? If so, no way that’s a free. I guessed it was the third man in.?.?

[Bulldog Joe]

Was that paid against Josh? If so, no way that’s a free. I guessed it was the third man in.?.?

That is how I read it. Josh complained to the ump.

[bulldogtragic]

That is how I read it. Josh complained to the ump.

Then we are changing his name vie deed poll to Jake Lever. Then he won’t be subject to dumb frees and losing his skull and no free paid.

[Testekill]

He had a good, respectable game. Keep on persisting with him, see what he can do with Keath or Gardner in the team.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Respectable game for a second gamer who was required to play on the next best forward considering we’re missing our best defender.

[bulldogtragic]

Since the thread has it in the title, here’s Jones & Schache first two games of averages. Its something of a fair assessment of swinging an out of favour KPF into a KPD mid season, or at least provides a comparison and perhaps as indication of the move:

Jones —— Schache
Age 26 — Age 23 (When moved)

13 — Total Disposals — 14.5
4.5 — Contested Disp — 5.5
6.5 — Intercept Poss — 7
7 — Total Marks — 7
0.5 — Cont Marks — 1.5
2.5 — Tackles — 2
0.5 — Inside 50 — 0.5
0.0 — Clearances — 2
0.0 — Stoppage Clear — 2
3.5 — Rebound 50 — 4
1.5 —Frees Against — 0.5
7 — Pressure Acts — 9.5
214.5m — Metres Gained — 207.5m
0.0 — Ruck Contests — 9
0.0 — Hit Outs — 2
64.5 — AFL Fantasy Pts — 70.5

Carlton Won Both — Bulldogs Won Both

They’re tracking pretty close, with Schache marginally ahead. Jones was also the third string KPD, not the first plus Cordy. Both needed to develop their craft, Jones did while Schache can.

[Mofra]

At thius stage he holds his spot when Keath comes back, ahead of Cordy.
Cordy makes excellent position and busts his gut but his limitations may be glaring when Schache has more time at senior level

[bulldogtragic]

From AFL.com

8. Schache can thrive in new role down back

Talented tall Josh Schache has proven over the last fortnight that he can succeed as a key defender and the born-again big man can play a pivotal role in helping the Bulldogs go all the way this season. Schache did a superb job matched up against Taylor Walker on Saturday and even found a way to pull down eight telling marks and make five crucial intercepts during the Dogs' win. With Alex Keath and Ryan Gardner currently out injured and unlikely to feature until the first week of the finals, Schache now gets the chance to cement his spot in the side and make it impossible for Luke Beveridge to drop him. - Jonathan Healy

[Happy Days]

Wait why is Keath out for week one of the finals?

[Mantis]

Wait why is Keath out for week one of the finals?

I guess they're assuming we will be ultra conservative with Keath given his importance to the team.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Wait why is Keath out for week one of the finals?

The piece said he’s out until the first week of the finals. I took that to mean he’s back for week 1.

[bulldogtragic]

Game Three: Schache the KPD & 2nd Ruck

14 Disposals (8 Contested, inc. 8 Intercept Possessions)
10 Kicks
4 Handballs
71% Disposal Efficiency

6 Marks (2 Contested)
3 Rebound 50’s

1 Inside 50
4 Score Involvement

7 1%’s (spoils etc)
186m Metres Gained
100% Game Time Played (outside of his fitness test)
52 AFL Fantasy Points

2 Frees For
2 Frees Against (was against Bruce in actuality)


Clearly needs to keep developing, but he’s a different type of KPD to what we have. I’m looking forward to next year in particular in the long term, if he can play with Keath in the near term and how he bounces back next week. He didn’t get much in the way of third man support and our mids allowed their mids to have non-pressure entries to hit Wright lace out. But he’s got to have his review, absorb the lessons and front up next week with the confidence he had after the Melbourne game.

[azabob]

BT, one stat you are not showing is goals kicked by his opponent. Do you know that?

[dog town]

Game Three: Schache the KPD & 2nd Ruck

14 Disposals (8 Contested, inc. 8 Intercept Possessions)
10 Kicks
4 Handballs
71% Disposal Efficiency

6 Marks (2 Contested)
3 Rebound 50’s

1 Inside 50
4 Score Involvement

7 1%’s (spoils etc)
186m Metres Gained
100% Game Time Played (outside of his fitness test)
52 AFL Fantasy Points

2 Frees For
2 Frees Against (was against Bruce in actuality)


Clearly needs to keep developing, but he’s a different type of KPD to what we have. I’m looking forward to next year in particular in the long term, if he can play with Keath in the near term and how he bounces back next week. He didn’t get much in the way of third man support and our mids allowed their mids to have non-pressure entries to hit Wright lace out. But he’s got to have his review, absorb the lessons and front up next week with the confidence he had after the Melbourne game. Did he actually get beaten 1 on 1 that often? Seemed like overall defensive breakdown led to at least 3 of the goals.

[comrade]

BT, one stat you are not showing is goals kicked by his opponent. Do you know that?

Wright clearly beat him in two contests, the others weren't direct losses to Schache but still, our defence let a big man who is considered bog average kick 7 and Schache is part of that. Dirty night for him and everyone else in the red, white and blue.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Fact of the matter is Schache is not the answer to our defensive problems. We need to look externally. We have ONE KPD who is AFL quality.

[bulldogtragic]

BT, one stat you are not showing is goals kicked by his opponent. Do you know that?

The stat sheet says 7. But I don’t think all are necessarily on him.


Did he actually get beaten 1 on 1 that often? Seemed like overall defensive breakdown led to at least 3 of the goals.

I thought he was pretty good. If your forward is going to get it lace out of the middle time and time again that will come into it, but I agree defensive breakdown was worth multiple. One he went to the unmanned dons player on the 50 to try to pressure or stop, but the dons player marked it and got it out to Wright. Schache could’ve just done the selfish thing and man his man and let the dons player run in and have a shot. But he didn’t he forced a wide shot and the kick went through. That’s a positive about his mindset to me as well.

[bulldogtragic]

Wright clearly beat him in two contests, the others weren't direct losses to Schache but still, our defence let a big man who is considered bog average kick 7 and Schache is part of that. Dirty night for him and everyone else in the red, white and blue.

Swap Josh & Cordy, and the discussion is on Cordy. There’s plenty of things to work with with Josh.

[Happy Days]

Schache was absolutely horrible today. No mincing words, no considering his stat output, just woefully exposed against a bang-average key forward.

If we had a competent defender on Wright he doesn't touch it as he usually doesn't touch it and we win comfortably.

[comrade]

Schache was absolutely horrible today. No mincing words, no considering his stat output, just woefully exposed against a bang-average key forward.

If we had a competent defender on Wright he doesn't touch it as he usually doesn't touch it and we win comfortably.

The fact we still persisted with him on Wright as a 3rd game defender over someone playing his 100th game speaks volumes about where our defence is currently at.

[Grantysghost]

Swap Josh & Cordy, and the discussion is on Cordy. There’s plenty of things to work with with Josh.

I must be in the minority but I can't see him as a defender. He makes ok position to intercept at times, but he's just too tame.

[Grantysghost]

Schache was absolutely horrible today. No mincing words, no considering his stat output, just woefully exposed against a bang-average key forward.

If we had a competent defender on Wright he doesn't touch it as he usually doesn't touch it and we win comfortably.
Nail. Head.

[Mofra]

Fact of the matter is Schache is not the answer to our defensive problems. We need to look externally. We have ONE KPD who is AFL quality.
I'm willing to give him a chance to show what he can do as the no 2 KPD. Needs a pre-season
He's no number 1 but he's makeshift right now out of necessity.

[bulldogtragic]

Schache was absolutely horrible today. No mincing words, no considering his stat output, just woefully exposed against a bang-average key forward.

If we had a competent defender on Wright he doesn't touch it as he usually doesn't touch it and we win comfortably.

I agree, but with a different perspective. Keath on Wright should be easy work, no doubt. Our loss wasn’t about Wright.

Schache is never going to be the #1 KPD. Especially in game 3. Take Carlton when Liam Jones was moved back at AFL, he was the #3 KPD at Carlton, taking the #3 KPF/Mid Sized. Josh has just two games behind him, the MC and Coach made him #1 KPD, while Young wasn’t selected as a more experienced support and Cordy wasn’t moved onto Wright with all his experience and mongrel. Josh was put in the deep end and the lack of effort up the ground made it deeper again.

I can easily forgive a game like this, for all the reasons in the above posts. The test ongoing is if he can be a good #2 or #3 KPD. I believe he will make the grade. I want to see him with Keath in the team, because that’s going to be the fairest test for him.

[bornadog]

Young needs to take over the role. Schache can train for the role over summer

[Grantysghost]

Why did we manage Weightman? Wrong thread but right question.

[bornadog]

Why did we manage Weightman? Wrong thread but right question.

He pulled up sore

[Grantysghost]

He pulled up sore

Not hubris?

[bornadog]

Not hubris?

I still think he had a bit of concussion after smacking his head on the ground last week

[bulldogtragic]

I'm willing to give him a chance to show what he can do as the no 2 KPD. Needs a pre-season
He's no number 1 but he's makeshift right now out of necessity.

Yep. To summaries the stats I’ve just gone with average AFL Fantasy Points this season. Schache’s 3 Games (not inc. Richmond game where he played forward)

Schache 64.3 Points (Most averages amongst our KPDs for: Marks, Contested Marks, Rebound 50’s, Clearances, Stoppage Clearances, Second for Intercepts, Effective Disposals, Score Involvements, Metres Gained)

Keath 57.3 Points
Wood 50.4 Points
Young 46.6 Points
Cordy 46.0 Points
Gardner 25.0 Points

Josh is clearly doing a lot right to rank highly. But as the forced #1 there’s plenty of development seeing as he’s had three games and no preseason working on his craft. Moving into #2 with Keath back will likely see his output increase. This is a work in progress but there’s a lot to like if people look for it. Patience to reap long term benefits and with Keath back it might be sooner. The question might be pick Cordy and give up a few goals with no hurt factor, or pick Josh who might give up a few but offers some hurt factor. I know what I’d prefer.

Edit: SuperCoach

Schache 75.6
Keath 74.6
Young 60.4
Cordy 58.2
Wood 55.7
Gardner 38.8

[boydogs]

At least 4 of Wright's goals were from outside 50 or near the boundary. Even Brian Lake would have let him lead to those spots, but our aerial spoiling was nowhere today

[jeemak]

Schache had a couple of opportunities to impact the game and he didn't to the extent we might like but that's going to happen with any defender let alone someone who is three games in.

The poor performance of our midfield was scandalous and our defencive unit should be completely pissed off by it, because they were ultimately the ones made to look like shit.

You know when WCE look like shit? it's when their midfield does to them what ours did to us today. McGovern and Barras get poleaxed and they are the best in the league.

Our midfield was disgusting and there's nothing more to it.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Does Schache have stumpy arms? He just doesn’t seem to be able to spoil.

[MrMahatma]

Does he go forward again now Bruce is out? And Young in with Keath and Gardner to return by finals.

[comrade]

Does he go forward again now Bruce is out? And Young in with Keath and Gardner to return by finals.

Not for me. If he’s not playing in defence, I’d rather him out of the team altogether. Play Sweet in the ruck, push English forward. A forward line of Naughts, Marra and English isn’t troubling a top 4 defence but it’s better than having Schache in it.

[Danjul]

Does Schache have stumpy arms? He just doesnÂ’t seem to be able to spoil.
His opponent took 7 marks for 7 goals.

Bruce took 7 marks for 3 goals.

Naughton took 5 marks for 1 goal.

we didnÂ’t lose because of SchacheÂ’s arms, it was their legs (or more accurately, whatÂ’s between their ears).

[Danjul]

Nobody here has mentioned the fact that Schache is both shorter (2 cm) and lighter (6 kg) than Wright.

Both significant when the ball is being delivered well, as it was yesterday.

[Grantysghost]

Nobody here has mentioned the fact that Schache is both shorter (2 cm) and lighter (6 kg) than Wright.

Both significant when the ball is being delivered well, as it was yesterday.

It's a fair point, when youre getting towelled up in the midfield and the ball exits stoppages like it did it's difficult for the defence.

I think both things are right. Schache was bad on a very tough day for defenders. Our two best are injured so it really exposed the ruck/midfield belting.

[comrade]

Lewy Young would have stopped some of them.

[bulldogtragic]

Lewy Young would have stopped some of them.

Should’ve played him with he or Josh as second ruck.

[Mantis]

Lewy Young would have stopped some of them.

His closing speed & aerial presence is something we seriously lacked in defence yesterday.

[Danjul]

Lewy Young would have stopped some of them.
I agree, but he is a natural backman (who specialises in being on the wrong side of the fence)

[comrade]

Should’ve played him with he or Josh as second ruck.

I knew we were *!*!*!*!ed when Bevo threw Naughton in the ruck. That was dire.

[bulldogtragic]

I knew we were *!*!*!*!ed when Bevo threw Naughton in the ruck. That was dire.

He looked genuinely confused by all aspects in those contests.

[Scraggers]

I must be in the minority but I can't see him as a defender. He makes ok position to intercept at times, but he's just too tame.

Agree ... He has the ability and the footy nous, but i want to see him hit a forward hard. I want to see him miss the ball and give the forwards ear a tickle (with his fist). I want him to develop a presence there. Hes not Liam Jones yet, but he can be.


Schache was absolutely horrible today. No mincing words, no considering his stat output, just woefully exposed against a bang-average key forward.

If we had a competent defender on Wright he doesn't touch it as he usually doesn't touch it and we win comfortably.

I don't think he was woeful, he did some good things around the ground and was a good rebound defender. But when he is in a one-on-one contest, he has to learn to punch from behind instead of trying to out-mark every time.

I think it is well worth persisting with the trial. Jones played almost a season in the twos learning the craft. Schache has had less than five matches.

[Happy Days]

Schache will never be the number one key defender and his best chance is playing off of guys like Waterman to intercept and use his skills. He can't be a Steve May but he could be a Jake Lever.

We're talking about getting a bath from Peter Wright here.

[soupman]

Schache was bad yesterday, really bad.

I would still persist with the experiment though. He is never gonna be a good lockdown guy, so Keath out really hurts him. We'll have to ride the ups and downs a bit until there is a big enough body of work to tell us if he could be in our plans there proper. I wouldn't even consider playing him forward in the absence of Bruce. He is not going to make it as an AFL forward and we already know that, lets stop trying it.

[Happy Days]

Schache was bad yesterday, really bad.

I would still persist with the experiment though. He is never gonna be a good lockdown guy, so Keath out really hurts him. We'll have to ride the ups and downs a bit until there is a big enough body of work to tell us if he could be in our plans there proper. I wouldn't even consider playing him forward in the absence of Bruce. He is not going to make it as an AFL forward and we already know that, lets stop trying it.

Yeah I'm with this. I've pretty consistently said the whole time that we need to see it with Keath and maybe even Gardner in the team. I'm not so pigheaded to say that there aren't encouraging signs but his one on one work was truly awful yesterday (and last week as well to be honest).

[comrade]

Yeah I'm with this. I've pretty consistently said the whole time that we need to see it with Keath and maybe even Gardner in the team. I'm not so pigheaded to say that there aren't encouraging signs but his one on one work was truly awful yesterday (and last week as well to be honest).

Yeah, it’s a fair assessment. He was clearly beaten a few times where a good 1 on 1 defender would easily kill it. 3 games in to the experiment with a bog average key defender beside him who couldn’t provide any coverage at all, shit like this will happen.

Give him a full pre season in the Lever role and judge him on 2022. I’d still play him ahead of Cordy when Keath returns though. Zaine couldn’t even keep Aaron Francis or Alex Waterman at bay.

[bulldogtragic]

Yeah, it’s a fair assessment. He was clearly beaten a few times where a good 1 on 1 defender would easily kill it. 3 games in to the experiment with a bog average key defender beside him who couldn’t provide any coverage at all, shit like this will happen.

Give him a full pre season in the Lever role and judge him on 2022. I’d still play him ahead of Cordy when Keath returns though. Zaine couldn’t even keep Aaron Francis or Jake Waterman at bay.

Yep. Cordy with all his experience gave up position and three goals to Holman in one quarter a few weeks ago. He bleeds them every week as much as Josh may this year. At least Josh gets involved in the game and offsets the losses with good hurt factor per his stats in the first three games. The sooner Keath, Schache & Gardner are the three KPDs the better. I’m not confident the MC agrees with me though.

[Happy Days]

Yeah, it’s a fair assessment. He was clearly beaten a few times where a good 1 on 1 defender would easily kill it. 3 games in to the experiment with a bog average key defender beside him who couldn’t provide any coverage at all, shit like this will happen.

Give him a full pre season in the Lever role and judge him on 2022. I’d still play him ahead of Cordy when Keath returns though. Zaine couldn’t even keep Aaron Francis or Alex Waterman at bay.

Cordy goes before Schache for sure.

As an aside, feel like we need to acknowledge Easton's game yesterday. Blanketed AMT, won a bit of the ball and even kicked a goal (?). I might need to go and amend my votes.

[EasternWest]

Cordy goes before Schache for sure.

As an aside, feel like we need to acknowledge Easton's game yesterday. Blanketed AMT, won a bit of the ball and even kicked a goal (?). I might need to go and amend my votes.

Deserves handsome points at least.

I know I've got a problem.

[1eyedog]

Schache will never be the number one key defender and his best chance is playing off of guys like Waterman to intercept and use his skills. He can't be a Steve May but he could be a Jake Lever.

We're talking about getting a bath from Peter Wright here.

Yeah he can't he was never a strong high marking forward and his inability to read the flight of the ball through the air is inferior to someone like Jones, who was an exceptional mark. Schache has never been this type of player. He's a lead up forward with a nice kick. Understanding forward craft probably helps him predict his opponents leading patterns but not reading the ball in the air well means he struggles with timing affecting his ability to jump and spoil. Added to this as others have alluded to he's not aggressive enough and rarely contacts the body in contests.

[macca]

Schache lack of physical presence was a weakness that was exposed yesterday. I don't know if it can be taught, but it comes natural for some people. You see all the A grade defenders: Keath, Harris, May, Grimes etc... You will see they are always irritating close, cloth hanger like to their opponent. The 30 cm gap, is slight seconds in timing that makes all the difference in spoiling and out positioning an opponent.

When he got outmarked by Wight, there was stuff all physical contact with Wight. How can you be that tall, and not throw your weight around ?

[Danjul]

Wright took 7 marks. What is so special about that? Nothing. We had a player (key forward) take 7 marks. And neither took the most in the match.

Wright won the game by kicking properly. Wish we had players who would.

His success came from within. It was not handed to him. That’s what the game is about. This should be a valuable lesson for the Dogs.

[FrediKanoute]

Wright took 7 marks. What is so special about that? Nothing. We had a player (key forward) take 7 marks. And neither took the most in the match.

Wright won the game by kicking properly. Wish we had players who would.

His success came from within. It was not handed to him. That’s what the game is about. This should be a valuable lesson for the Dogs.

I agree. Schache wasn't the problem. The lace out delivery to Peter Wright that the Bombers midfield provided was outstanding. There was maybe one/two instances where you could suggest that Schache could have positioned better.

at the other end - Bruce, Scott, The Bont, JUH, English all miss very gettable goals.

[comrade]

Wright took 7 marks. What is so special about that? Nothing. We had a player (key forward) take 7 marks. And neither took the most in the match.

Wright won the game by kicking properly. Wish we had players who would.

His success came from within. It was not handed to him. That’s what the game is about. This should be a valuable lesson for the Dogs.

Our midfield was very bad. Schache was pretty bad. If our midfield played well, it wouldn’t have mattered how Schache went. If Schache played well, it would have covered how badly our mids played. If our forwards kicked better, it would have covered up all sins.

In short; we were crap everywhere.

[Grantysghost]

Wright had only kicked 18 for the entire season before yesterday, and the Dons midfield has been pretty good all year.

[jazzadogs]

The thing that frustrated me the most was 2, maybe 3, occasions where Shack was behind a 200cm key forward and decided to go up with flat hands trying to ??outmark him??. Put a bloody fist through it.

[bornadog]

Our midfield was very bad. Schache was pretty bad. If our midfield played well, it wouldn’t have mattered how Schache went. If Schache played well, it would have covered how badly our mids played. If our forwards kicked better, it would have covered up all sins.

In short; we were crap everywhere.

We had our opportunities but didn't take them:

We took 20 marks inside 50 and inside-50 count was 60-39. That is a winning combination, but with all the misses you are stuffed

[bornadog]

The thing that frustrated me the most was 2, maybe 3, occasions where Shack was behind a 200cm key forward and decided to go up with flat hands trying to ??outmark him??. Put a bloody fist through it.

This is where Gardner is good. He knows he won't out mark his opponent, but just goes the fist.

[comrade]

We had our opportunities but didn't take them:

We took 20 marks inside 50 and inside-50 count was 60-39. That is a winning combination, but with all the misses you are stuffed

Yeah, just an insane stat line. One side was efficient as hell and shot the lights out, the other couldn’t buy a goal. As frustrating a game as I can remember, made worse by it being Essendon and disastrous with the loss of Bruce.

One of the worst Bulldog supporting days in a long time.

[Mantis]

This is where Gardner is good. He knows he won't out mark his opponent, but just goes the fist.

I'm not sold on Gardner's ability to defend the high ball, as like Schache he doesn't have a strong presence in the air.

[bornadog]

Yeah, just an insane stat line. One side was efficient as hell and shot the lights out, the other couldn’t buy a goal. As frustrating a game as I can remember, made worse by it being Essendon and disastrous with the loss of Bruce.

One of the worst Bulldog supporting days in a long time.

I hate losing to Essendon, but the Bruce loss is devastating, especially for him when he decided to come to us thinking he can play finals.

Poor bloke

[DOG GOD]

I'm not sold on Gardner's ability to defend the high ball, as like Schache he doesn't have a strong presence in the air.
Agree. Schache and Gardner are not the answer. Cordy isn’t either. God we are desperate for another A grader to support Keath.

[bornadog]

Agree. Schache and Gardner are not the answer. Cordy isn’t either. God we are desperate for another A grader to support Keath.

Gardner has only lost one, 1 on 1 in the games he played this year.

[Mofra]

I'm not sold on Gardner's ability to defend the high ball, as like Schache he doesn't have a strong presence in the air.
Gardner will punch when given the opportunity and has far superior closing speed.

He's no world beater but when fit he's easily in front of Schache as a defender

[DOG GOD]

Gardner has only lost one, 1 on 1 in the games he played this year.
That’s fine, but even if Gardner, Cordy and Schache played yesterday, we probably still would have lost.
Keath is VERY important, and I think we need another A grader to support, then Gardner/young as the third.

[hujsh]

I'd have killed for either Gardiner or Keath yesterday over either of the other key defenders. Huge ins if they come good

[Mantis]

Gardner has only lost one, 1 on 1 in the games he played this year.

He lost multiple against WC.


Gardner will punch when given the opportunity and has far superior closing speed.

He's no world beater but when fit he's easily in front of Schache as a defender

He will try to punch, but it's not always effective.

Schache has a long way to go to be a competent defender, but he does have the ability to win the ball back which is something Gardner has never shown... he is a defend (punch/spoil) at all cost player which is not the way of the modern tall defender.

[DOG GOD]

Gardner and Cordy cannot/do not take contested marks. Cordy is always behind his man so he’s no chance. Young and Schache can at least take a mark down there which will be very much required come finals.

Realistically, I have no faith in either 3 to stand up in finals.

[bornadog]

Gardner and Cordy cannot/do not take contested marks. Cordy is always behind his man so he’s no chance. Young and Schache can at least take a mark down there which will be very much required come finals.

Realistically, I have no faith in either 3 to stand up in finals.

We need Keath and Gardner.

[DOG GOD]

We need Keath and Gardner.
I’d go with Keath, Gardner and Young, but the only way Cordy doesn’t play finals, is if his injured.

[bornadog]

He lost multiple against WC.

Is that official or your observation?

[Happy Days]

That one on one stat is super misleading BAD, and I think it only takes into account isolated wrestles with no one else in the vicinity, of which there might be one a game.

The same stat had Liam Jones allegedly only losing one all year too, and he gave up 3 marks to Naughts in about 5 minutes when we played them.

[Mantis]

Is that official or your observation?

Observation.

But in re-collection it was probably only one contest where his opponent (Allen) marked it, in the other he was ineffective with his spoil and the ball spilled to a free to a WC player who goaled.

As we know stats can be dressed up in any way to tell a story.. Zaine probably has good 1 v 1 stats too, but often isn't in the picture when his opponent marks the ball.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Nothing against Gardner, but the fact that he's our 2nd choice KPD says a lot about our KPD stocks. It simply must be addressed this offseason, along with the ruck.

[GVGjr]

Nothing against Gardner, but the fact that he's our 2nd choice KPD says a lot about our KPD stocks. It simply must be addressed this offseason, along with the ruck.

We have been light on for KP and ruck depth for a few years now. Even adding both Bruce and Keath in the same trade period only got us back to a reasonable position.

We might address it in the off season but I wouldn't hold my breath unless there are free agents we can acquire.

[boydogs]

At least Josh gets involved in the game and offsets the losses with good hurt factor per his stats in the first three games

Maybe play him in the Matthew Richardson/Nick Riewoldt wing role

[bulldogtragic]

Maybe play him in the Matthew Richardson/Nick Riewoldt wing role

That could also work for sure. But I’d persist with KPD #2 or #3. I think sides will go with three talls more now, or two and a ruck resting forward. Josh has the extra height. He just needs more exposure in the role and a preseason to truly learn and develop into a KPD. He can only get better. His marking and hurt factor is good. Once he can develop the one on one skills, and other tools of the trade I think he will absolutely make the grade.

[comrade]

That could also work for sure. But I’d persist with KPD #2 or #3. I think sides will go with three talls more now, or two and a ruck resting forward. Josh has the extra height. He just needs more exposure in the role and a preseason to truly learn and develop into a KPD. He can only get better. His marking and hurt factor is good. Once he can develop the one on one skills, and other tools of the trade I think he will absolutely make the grade.

I'm excited to see what he can produce after a pre-season of training with the defensive group.

[bulldogtragic]

I'm excited to see what he can produce after a pre-season of training with the defensive group.

Me too. He’s shown more than enough in the other parts of his game, that when schooled by Dale Morris 6-7 months he will get the defensive skills to succeed. If he’s our second ruck, some time to improve on this would be great too. All we needed this year was ‘proof of concept’, and we’ve got that.

[Bulldog4life]

The thing that frustrated me the most was 2, maybe 3, occasions where Shack was behind a 200cm key forward and decided to go up with flat hands trying to ??outmark him??. Put a bloody fist through it.

That can be taught preferably over a pre-season.

[Mantis]

That can be taught preferably over a pre-season.

I’m not so sure given the lessons required to become a key forward haven’t been able to be learnt over 5 pre seasons. His lack of physicality in the contest can’t be hidden either as a forward or defender… and it’s holding him back as he has some really good attributes.

[bulldogtragic]

I agree. Schache wasn't the problem. The lace out delivery to Peter Wright that the Bombers midfield provided was outstanding. There was maybe one/two instances where you could suggest that Schache could have positioned better.

at the other end - Bruce, Scott, The Bont, JUH, English all miss very gettable goals.

Right as usual Fredi. When our mids refuse to defend, even Alex Keath can be made to look average. In light of today’s second non effort by our mids to defend, is perhaps some proof Josh is more advanced than some criticism that went his way by some others.

[bulldogtragic]

Josh might have gone forward and kicked 2 and a GA for the sealer…

But to the thread, when shot got serious in the first he pushed into defence and took a good contested mark and had a few really good touches. Without the games earlier in defence I wonder if he’d have the confidence to push up and position himself to help the defenders out. I still have seriously high hopes for him as a defender next to Keath & Gardner, but I liked the reward for him and the team with the games in defence this year. The ability to move him around with confidence this week might be important.

Well done kid.

[Go_Dogs]

Swing man. Every team needs a tall utility that can plug holes, Josh is that man.

[bulldogtragic]

AFEL.com


A WINDY, mid-season practice game at Whitten Oval against Sydney was the scene for the Western Bulldogs' defensive experiment with key forward Josh Schache.

Coach Luke Beveridge had mentioned the idea in passing and pulled the trigger for two quarters against the Swans to see how Schache coped against a trio of tall forwards.

It turned out to be the move that reinvigorated the 24-year-old, got him back in the senior team and ultimately led to him playing a key role as a forward in last week's elimination final win against Essendon.

He enters this Saturday night's semi-final against his former club Brisbane as a key structural player at either end of the ground, and credits the defensive switch for breathing new life into his season.

"I was really excited by it and just felt like it was a really big freshener for me," Schache told AFL.com.au this week.

"I almost got addicted to trying to learn something new and it was definitely something that gave me a bit of spark.

"Bevo floated the idea past me one day and it sounds cliched, but I said I'm happy to do whatever you guys want me to do.

"I had a few games back there before I played that game against Melbourne [in round 19], so it was a good challenge and I was excited about it."

Schache played his only game for the first half of this season in round seven before dropping back to the VFL until his opportunity as a defender came.

The irony of his move back, which resulted in three senior games between rounds 19 and 21, is that the Bulldogs then used him to good effect as a forward against the Bombers.

The former Lion was a surprise late inclusion for that match and booted two goals from marks and set shots, grasping his opportunity when it came.

"I've just had that mindset that you never know when you're going to get an opportunity," Schache said.

"Getting that opportunity on the weekend to come in and play a role for the team, I knew I was being put in for a reason, so I had the confidence to go out there and play my role."

Defenders Alex Keath, Hayden Crozier and housemate Buku Khamis helped Schache learn his new craft, with defensive coach Rohan Smith an important teacher.

Smith said the 201cm big man now had the versatility and skills to move to either end whenever needed, but also the confidence, which had been the most important aspect of Schache's growth in the second half of the season.

"He's grasped his new role, he knows how important it is for the side and it's all come through confidence. You gain momentum out of that," Smith said.

"We know how important dual-position players are. If you can fill a role down back but also go forward and impact games or kick goals or provide a contest, those players are just so important."

Described as humble, softly spoken and incredibly respectful, there's also a supremely competitive streak to Schache that kicks up a gear on game day.

He couldn't break into the Bulldogs team for any meaningful period in 2020, playing only two games, and admits a long period out of the team might have rocked him.

But his three-month stretch out of the team this year made him more resilient and ready to play a key role against his former club, meeting them for only the second time in his four seasons with the Bulldogs.

"Along the way there's been periods where you do doubt yourself and it can be hard," the No.2 pick in the 2015 NAB AFL Draft said.

"Especially the last few years we've had with so much uncertainty.

"But I really think this year I've grown personally. Things didn't work for me earlier in the year, but I think that's made me a little bit stronger and more resilient in the way I go about it mentally and stick at it.

"I've stuck at it and knew an opportunity would come at some point, and when it did I would be ready."

[bornadog]

Bevo loves the versatility in players

[macca]

Schache you have 2 reasons to be in the team every week now. To play forward and/or back.

He played a big part in the last 2 goals of tonight's final against Brisbane, kicking one and shepherd through another from Smith combination.

I hope he can keep his confidence and start to dominate games as the best of Schache is yet to come. His only 24, so he should be starting to be in the right spot of his career. I hope he can fill out 2-3 kg more and learn to take contested marks. Because a Schache beastmode would be awesome to watch and put fear into teams.

A team with:
Naughton charging at 110% flying for marks
Schache leading at 110% on the other side
Bruce in the middle leading
With English rotating in any of these positions.

Its going to be really scary for team oppositions when this all clicks.

[EasternWest]

Schache you have 2 reasons to be in the team every week now. To play forward and/or back.

He played a big part in the last 2 goals of tonight's final against Brisbane, kicking one and shepherd through another from Smith combination.

I hope he can keep his confidence and start to dominate games as the best of Schache is yet to come. His only 24, so he should be starting to be in the right spot of his career. I hope he can fill out 2-3 kg more and learn to take contested marks. Because a Schache beastmode would be awesome to watch and put fear into teams.

A team with:
Naughton charging at 110% flying for marks
Schache leading at 110% on the other side
Bruce in the middle leading
With English rotating in any of these positions.

Its going to be really scary for team oppositions when this all clicks.

And you haven't even mentioned Marra.

[bulldogtragic]

2 Finals being played out of position: Scoring 3 Goals Straight, 1 GA sealing last week, a shepherd on the line to get one of Smith’s in, 8 Score Involvements. So a hand in 5 Goals in two finals.

Plus Averaging: 11.5 Disposals, 4.5 Marks, 1.5 Inside 50, 135.5m Gained, 2.5 Goals (per above).

Not perfect. But we needed another avenue to goal, directly or indirectly. He’s given us that. Which isn’t bad for a KPD.

[jeemak]

He really shat the bed at different times, and to his credit did it in different ways! ;)

However, he was also extremely important early and late and on the basis of that worth persevering as a swing player who can also help in the ruck.

Please Josh, just be yourself and back your skills and brain in because they're both unique for someone of your size. It's career time for you now mate, go get it!