Dual premiership Crow refuses COVID-19 vaccination (AFLW)

[Daughter of the West]

PREMIERSHIP Crow Deni Varnhagen has told the club she currently does not want to receive a COVID-19 vaccination.

Varnhagen, 28, works as a nurse away from football.

While the Victorian Government required all Victorian AFLW footballers to have received their first vaccination by Friday, October 15 as a condition of their work permits, no such rule has been made by their South Australian counterparts.

However, South Australian healthcare workers need to have their first vaccination by November 1.

"We encourage all players and staff to receive a vaccination," an Adelaide spokesperson told womens.afl.

"We will comply with all rules and regulations set down by both the Government and the AFL."

The AFL’s vaccination policy is currently being finalised and the League said that it would continue to provide education for players and staff across AFL and AFLW programs.

The AFL said it would not disclose the vaccination status of individual players or staff as it respected medical confidentiality.

Varnhagen, an inaugural Crow, has played 31 games across five seasons, including two premierships, having battled knee and quad issues in the past few years.

https://www.womens.afl/news/74985

Bit of a contrast to our very publicly fully vaccinated AFLM squad.

[GVGjr]

https://www.womens.afl/news/74985

Bit of a contrast to our very publicly fully vaccinated AFLM squad.

Just my opinion but it's a shame that so many aren't prepared to look at the bigger picture and get with the programme.
The scary part is that she also works as a nurse.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Just my opinion but it's a shame that so many aren't prepared to look at the bigger picture and get with the programme.
The scary part is that she also works as a nurse.

I don’t know why but I know a few nurses who are refusing the vaccine. It’s concerning and I’m assuming these nurses aren’t working in ICU or covid wards.

[Daughter of the West]

The scary part is that she also works as a nurse.

That's the part that surprised me the most. Any of my girlfriends who are nurses/in allied health were first out of the blocks to get jabbed and were then flat out nagging their partners.

[hujsh]

You'd want nurses to be on board with medical science. Guess it's just a paycheck for some people (but geez there must be easier ways to get a paycheck)

[jeemak]

To be fair, she's probably done her own research............ :p

And this is where it gets tricky, people think that because they understand some elements of medical science they understand others sufficiently to contradict what experts in a particular field might put out there.

See Zach Bush as an example of how dangerous this type of thinking can be.

[GVGjr]

To be fair, she's probably done her own research............ :p

And this is where it gets tricky, people think that because they understand some elements of medical science they understand others sufficiently to contradict what experts in a particular field might put out there.

See Zach Bush as an example of how dangerous this type of thinking can be.

It's not like she hasn't got access to the right people so she can make an informed decision so hopefully this is her assessment based on medical advice not what she has read on facebook.

[bornadog]

It's not like she hasn't got access to the right people so she can make an informed decision so hopefully this is her assessment based on medical advice not what she has read on facebook.

Medical advice would have said get vaccinated. There is almost no reason for a medical exemption according to medical experts.

[GVGjr]

Medical advice would have said get vaccinated. There is almost no reason for a medical exemption according to medical experts.

Based on feedback from some people I know, their parents said their Doctors weren't convinced on the Vaccinations effectiveness so on that advice they haven't had their first dose. They need to speak to other Doctors.

[EasternWest]

To be fair, she's probably done her own research............ :p

Hoo boy, am I sick of those people.

We had this lovely pair of ladies that were our neighbours and I adored spending time with them. It was like being with two Nannas at once, but the good kind of Nanna. I used to say to my partner that after spending time with them I felt like I'd had my soul filled up.

Anyway, we moved (not far away, but not a few houses any more) and see less of them now. One of them is a former nurse and you can imagine my dismay when she rolled out all the usual conspiracy theorist tropes when the pandemic topic came up. It actually broke my heart a bit.

Anyway, sorry for the wandering vignette but why are the "do some research" crowd so disbelieving when the research you've done (ya know, the readily available via Google, clinically backed stuff) is presented to them?

Have I not "done some research"?

[Throughandthrough]

I believe she does (or used to....) work in ICU as well. But apparently her Mother is into natural therapy...


She will be unemployed from her job and finished as an AFLW footballer in a few weeks if she doesnt get jabbed


What a goose.

[Grantysghost]

Hoo boy, am I sick of those people.

We had this lovely pair of ladies that were our neighbours and I adored spending time with them. It was like being with two Nannas at once, but the good kind of Nanna. I used to say to my partner that after spending time with them I felt like I'd had my soul filled up.

Anyway, we moved (not far away, but not a few houses any more) and see less of them now. One of them is a former nurse and you can imagine my dismay when she rolled out all the usual conspiracy theorist tropes when the pandemic topic came up. It actually broke my heart a bit.

Anyway, sorry for the wandering vignette but why are the "do some research" crowd so disbelieving when the research you've done (ya know, the readily available via Google, clinically backed stuff) is presented to them?

Have I not "done some research"?

I've worked with Scientists supporting them for over 20 years, these guys aren't driving Mercedes and BMWs.

Question big pharma yes I get that, money and power is a great motivator for many; I can assure you though from my experience nearly all do the research because they care.

Google scholar, peer reviewed studies. You can't go wrong.

Edit : And avoid anything Murdoch, the brain washing is real.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I believe she does (or used to....) work in ICU as well. But apparently her Mother is into natural therapy...


She will be unemployed from her job and finished as an AFLW footballer in a few weeks if she doesnt get jabbed


What a goose.

Yes. This, at least among nurses, seems to be a primary reason to not get the vaccine. They believe in all natural medicine. Only natural things should go in the body. I understand this perspective. The less manufactured/altered stuff you put in your body the better. But I’m also aware this strategy isn’t practical. Modern medicine has changed the world and cured diseases. I’d also bet my life savings that these people aren’t strict with this rule and they pick and choose when to use it.

[Grantysghost]

Yes. This, at least among nurses, seems to be a primary reason to not get the vaccine. They believe in all natural medicine. Only natural things should go in the body. I understand this perspective. The less manufactured/altered stuff you put in your body the better. But I’m also aware this strategy isn’t practical. Modern medicine has changed the world and cured diseases. I’d also bet my life savings that these people aren’t strict with this rule and they pick and choose when to use it.

Like alcohol.

[Go_Dogs]

Just my opinion but it's a shame that so many aren't prepared to look at the bigger picture and get with the programme.
The scary part is that she also works as a nurse.

Agree. Not a great headline for the AFL.

[hujsh]

Based on feedback from some people I know, their parents said their Doctors weren't convinced on the Vaccinations effectiveness so on that advice they haven't had their first dose. They need to speak to other Doctors.

Skeptical on this. Not on whether they told you this but I think something must be lost somewhere in translation.

GPs should be telling you if the vaccine is safe for you eg any existing conditions that can cause complications. I don't believe they're the experts when it comes to the effectiveness of these vaccines. They can have opinions, most likely more informed than most of us, but it's pretty clear the vaccines are effective.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Like alcohol.

Yep. Amongst a whole heap of other things that they’d either ignore their beliefs with or just flat out not even question what’s in it.

And then there’s how things might change if they found themselves in a life threatening situation. Their opinion on medicine might change then.

[bornadog]

I believe she does (or used to....) work in ICU as well. But apparently her Mother is into natural therapy...

She will be unemployed from her job and finished as an AFLW footballer in a few weeks if she doesnt get jabbed

What a goose.

Watched the Caulfield Cup on Saturday and after the race the trainer was thanking staff etc and mentioned including the three I had to let go because they refused to be vaccinated.

All well and good to get on your high moral ground, but you will be unemployed and locked out of many places.

[bornadog]

EW you were right about this bloke:

Melbourne Demons AFL premiership winner Tom McDonald says mandatory vaccines 'wrong' (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-10-18/afl-premiership-winner-comes-out-against-mandatory-vaccines/100549234)

[EasternWest]

EW you were right about this bloke:

Melbourne Demons AFL premiership winner Tom McDonald says mandatory vaccines 'wrong' (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-10-18/afl-premiership-winner-comes-out-against-mandatory-vaccines/100549234)

Red pilled, right wing, MRA dickhead. He was always going to be "one of those" as well.

I saw part of the interview only so stand to be corrected, but he didn't mentioned that he wasn't vaccinated. Surprised that a guy with such an objection would be like the rest of the sheeple. Wonder why?

Where Happy Days anyway? His takes are always way funnier than mine.

[hujsh]

Red pilled, right wing, MRA dickhead. He was always going to be "one of those" as well.

I saw part of the interview only so stand to be corrected, but he didn't mentioned that he wasn't vaccinated. Surprised that a guy with such an objection would be like the rest of the sheeple. Wonder why?

Where Happy Days anyway? His takes are always way funnier than mine.

Article quoted him saying he was vaccinated

[Grantysghost]

Article quoted him saying he was vaccinated

Yes he was more objecting to the mandatory nature.

It's a interesting one, I'm torn regarding forcing people to do things and not all people that object are your typical "anti vaxxer" types, more pro the tenets of a liberal democracy.
There's also those who have been fed misinformation and are driven by fear.

There's a great John Oliver segment on conspiracy theories that I encourage everyone to watch.

https://youtu.be/0b_eHBZLM6U

It's not a tough one for me, it's about protecting our most vulnerable and that's the kind of society I want to be part of (and the reason I got vaxxed asap).

Re covid though it's such a rare event it's the only option, the fear for many being it opens the door to an erosion of freedoms which personally I don't believe to be true.

And if you're pro choice, well there is an open labour market so you can choose a different profession.

One of the Tigers AFLW players has tested positive so really if you want to run the competition without interruption they need to be vaccinated.

Also every time I see a picture from the GF* I feel crook. I need to find a Pies fan to ask how long this lasts.

[jeemak]

He's vaccinated, but only expects mandatory vaccination for some because it's only right for it be mandatory for some but not for everyone else.

See the logic? Even though AFL players operate in an environment off the field that is highly susceptible to spreading the virus and then spreading it to the community, only frontline health workers should be forced to be vaccinated or have a "medical procedure".

Be careful GG, people aren't liking the appropriation of "pro-choice" to describe people who believe in being able to choose whether to be vaccinated. And certainly don't start using the word "segregation" to describe the exclusion of those who aren't!

I'm a bit the same in that I feel uneasy about forcing people to get the jab, and can see it from both sides. But if it's permission to play it's permission to play. If you don't like it don't play, and in the meantime protest peacefully and lobby your local member for a change to the rules.

[bornadog]

, the fear for many being it opens the door to an erosion of freedoms which personally I don't believe to be true.


I'm a bit the same in that I feel uneasy about forcing people to get the jab, and can see it from both sides. But if it's permission to play it's permission to play. If you don't like it don't play, and in the meantime protest peacefully and lobby your local member for a change to the rules.

When seats belts became mandatory in the 70s lots of people carried on about freedom and forcing them to be safe. The safety was not just for the driver, but the safety of their passengers. ;)

[jeemak]

When seats belts became mandatory in the 70s lots of people carried on about freedom and forcing them to be safe. The safety was not just for the driver, but the safety of their passengers. ;)

I guess what I'm saying is that I can understand have empathy for people and their POV without agreeing with them. Something in society that is sadly lacking and a major reason nothing really ever gets done.

[bornadog]

I guess what I'm saying is that I can understand have empathy for people and their POV without agreeing with them. Something in society that is sadly lacking and a major reason nothing really ever gets done.

No Probs.

My empathy has gone out the door, and I don't actually care. Is that BAD :D Maybe I have been in lockdown too long

[Grantysghost]

I guess what I'm saying is that I can understand have empathy for people and their POV without agreeing with them. Something in society that is sadly lacking and a major reason nothing really ever gets done.

That John Oliver clip I posted says exactly that. Try and understand and it makes it easier to educate.

Clearly not going to work for all, but it will for some and that's a good start.

[EasternWest]

I guess what I'm saying is that I can understand have empathy for people and their POV without agreeing with them. Something in society that is sadly lacking and a major reason nothing really ever gets done.


That John Oliver clip I posted says exactly that. Try and understand and it makes it easier to educate.

Clearly not going to work for all, but it will for some and that's a good start.

Understand what though?

I have plenty of empathy for a lot of reasons.

I have zero empathy for anyone tinfoiling about a safe, effective, clinically tested vaccine that is currently the key to getting our lives back. Zero. Nil. Zilch.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

We live in a society that only works because we agree to participate, and give up some of our freedoms.

Don't want to get a driver's license.. okay don't.. But you can't drive a car. And if you do drive unlicensed there are penalties.
Don't want to get insurance... okay don't... but if you hit someone's car, you can be sued.
Don't want to wear a seatbelt... sure... but again there are penalties if you're caught.
Want to coach your kids football team, great. Get a Bluecard.. Don't want to?? Then you can't participate.

Don't want to get vaccinated against COVID.. Okay don't.. but you will have to live with restrictions, and or penalties for not doing so. And in some instances those penalties might mean you can't work in a specific industry. eg nurse, police etc..

I'm not for a harsh mandatory vaccine, but am all for their being strong restrictions, discomforts and penalties if failure to get vaccinated puts others at risk.

[Grantysghost]

Understand what though?

I have plenty of empathy for a lot of reasons.

I have zero empathy for anyone tinfoiling about a safe, effective, clinically tested vaccine that is currently the key to getting our lives back. Zero. Nil. Zilch.

Understand that not all of those with a contrary opinion are idiots and or are bad people.

Some do it for reasons that to them are valid.

My position is the same as yours, however the era of outrage is really devisive, there seems to be little in between nowadays.

Damn Zuckerberg!

The Oliver clip is more around conspiracy theories in general.

[EasternWest]

Understand that not all of those with a contrary opinion are idiots and or are bad people.

Some do it for reasons that to them are valid.

My position is the same as yours, however the era of outrage is really devisive, there seems to be little in between nowadays.

Damn Zuckerberg!

The Oliver clip is more around conspiracy theories in general.

Fair enough mate.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Ive also heard of those simply waiting it out until we hit 80% double dosed. They’re effectively wanting to freeload on the back of everyone else getting jabbed and hope that herd immunity will take place. There needs to be repercussions for these people.

[Grantysghost]

Ive also heard of those simply waiting it out until we hit 80% double dosed. They’re effectively wanting to freeload on the back of everyone else getting jabbed and hope that heard immunity will take place. There needs to be repercussions for these people.

It's getting covid.

[Throughandthrough]

Yes. This, at least among nurses, seems to be a primary reason to not get the vaccine. They believe in all natural medicine. Only natural things should go in the body. I understand this perspective. The less manufactured/altered stuff you put in your body the better. But I’m also aware this strategy isn’t practical. Modern medicine has changed the world and cured diseases. I’d also bet my life savings that these people aren’t strict with this rule and they pick and choose when to use it.


allegedly she has some tattoos as well...i guess she accepted whatever gunk was chucked in her body when that was done ok..

[jeemak]

Understand what though?

I have plenty of empathy for a lot of reasons.

I have zero empathy for anyone tinfoiling about a safe, effective, clinically tested vaccine that is currently the key to getting our lives back. Zero. Nil. Zilch.

Have it your way dude.

[hujsh]

Have it your way dude.


To an extent I agree that most of these people are just victims of misinformation. And for that we should have some empathy for some people. But it's very limited at this point.

[EasternWest]

Have it your way dude.

I don't understand this passive aggressive response, Jee. You're implying I don't have empathy for people, but empathy and lack of tolerance for conspiracy theorists are two different things.

Frankly, I'm amazed that all rational people don't feel the same way.

I'd be interested in what you think I meant that I wasn't clear on.

[Scraggers]

Legitimate question ... when you google long term effects of Covid vaccine, there is zero articles. There is plenty of information on the short term effects (flu-like symptoms etc) but nothing long term. Now, I know there hasn't been enough time for there to be long term data, but aren't all the vaccine choices based on other vaccination bases just with different protein spikes?

I'm double dosed, this is not about me ... but I don't know who to ask about my kids getting the shots. When I spoke with my doc, he said its completely safe, don't stress. I'm not an anti-vaxxer but I have no idea where to find info. I would love some WOOF suggestions on who to speak with or articles to read debunking any long-term effects :)

[jeemak]

I don't understand this passive aggressive response, Jee. You're implying I don't have empathy for people, but empathy and lack of tolerance for conspiracy theorists are two different things.

Frankly, I'm amazed that all rational people don't feel the same way.

I'd be interested in what you think I meant that I wasn't clear on.

It's not meant to be passive aggressive, but like the Cowboy out of TBL (when asks the dude whether he has to use some many cuss words) I don't really mind, and am happy to differ a bit here and not let it worry me too much. Sorry if it came off otherwise, I can see how it did.

Sure, there's willfully ignorant people, ignorant people, some selfish people and a bit in between all of those positions and apart from the first lot there's usually reasons why people are the way they are and it's not just inherent personality flaws that make them so.

There's people out there who don't trust government, believe in natural remedies and don't trust science in the same way I do because they've been brought up that way, have spent their entire lives surrounded by people who think the same way as they do, and haven't been exposed to what you and I might consider to be rational thought. To some extent you can argue that these people should/ could have done more to get diverse exposure, but that's more easily said than done.

Then you get the folks who haven't been able to put food on the table because their social contract with those they perceive to be running society has been broken. They're out of work, have limited ability to change their situation, and nothing but time on their hands to watch videos about how the government (that has failed to support them is now telling them they need to chip in and get the jab so everyone can be looked after) shouldn't be trusted. So yeah, I don't agree with them, but I can understand and have empathy as to why they might think that participation on the terms prescribed shafted them in the past and from their point of view is probably going to shaft them again.

To me the lizard people, flat-earthers and 5G (or whatever) people are in their own category, and I think we agree on that. They're not the people I'm referring to above.

[Daughter of the West]

Legitimate question ... when you google long term effects of Covid vaccine, there is zero articles. There is plenty of information on the short term effects (flu-like symptoms etc) but nothing long term. Now, I know there hasn't been enough time for there to be long term data, but aren't all the vaccine choices based on other vaccination bases just with different protein spikes?

I'm double dosed, this is not about me ... but I don't know who to ask about my kids getting the shots. When I spoke with my doc, he said its completely safe, don't stress. I'm not an anti-vaxxer but I have no idea where to find info. I would love some WOOF suggestions on who to speak with or articles to read debunking any long-term effects :)

Not having listened to it myself Scraggers, Royal Children's Hospital (RCH) has a podcast available on Spotify called Kids Health Info. They have a brief ep they released on Friday about the latest in COVID-19 in children, and they did a longer one (42min) on Children and Covid-19 vaccines in August.

Also, Triple R community radio in Melbourne has a program every Sunday that it hosted by doctors talking all things health related called Radiotherapy. On 3/10, they spoke to Professor Fiona Russell (Paediatrician, Epidemiologist and Vaccinationologist at Uni Melb) about the impact of children returning to school after COVID restrictions, but also touched on vaccination. Unrelated, but in that same ep, they discuss concussion in community sport which I found really interesting. You can listen to the eps on rrr.org.au using their On-Demand feature.

I would just like to add that I am in no way affiliated with the RCH - I've just made a few stops to their emergency department as a parent!

[Scraggers]

Not having listened to it myself Scraggers, Royal Children's Hospital (RCH) has a podcast available on Spotify called Kids Health Info. They have a brief ep they released on Friday about the latest in COVID-19 in children, and they did a longer one (42min) on Children and Covid-19 vaccines in August.

Also, Triple R community radio in Melbourne has a program every Sunday that it hosted by doctors talking all things health related called Radiotherapy. On 3/10, they spoke to Professor Fiona Russell (Paediatrician, Epidemiologist and Vaccinationologist at Uni Melb) about the impact of children returning to school after COVID restrictions, but also touched on vaccination. Unrelated, but in that same ep, they discuss concussion in community sport which I found really interesting. You can listen to the eps on rrr.org.au using their On-Demand feature.

I would just like to add that I am in no way affiliated with the RCH - I've just made a few stops to their emergency department as a parent!

Thank you :)

[EasternWest]

It's not meant to be passive aggressive, but like the Cowboy out of TBL (when asks the dude whether he has to use some many cuss words) I don't really mind, and am happy to differ a bit here and not let it worry me too much. Sorry if it came off otherwise, I can see how it did.

Sure, there's willfully ignorant people, ignorant people, some selfish people and a bit in between all of those positions and apart from the first lot there's usually reasons why people are the way they are and it's not just inherent personality flaws that make them so.

There's people out there who don't trust government, believe in natural remedies and don't trust science in the same way I do because they've been brought up that way, have spent their entire lives surrounded by people who think the same way as they do, and haven't been exposed to what you and I might consider to be rational thought. To some extent you can argue that these people should/ could have done more to get diverse exposure, but that's more easily said than done.

Then you get the folks who haven't been able to put food on the table because their social contract with those they perceive to be running society has been broken. They're out of work, have limited ability to change their situation, and nothing but time on their hands to watch videos about how the government (that has failed to support them is now telling them they need to chip in and get the jab so everyone can be looked after) shouldn't be trusted. So yeah, I don't agree with them, but I can understand and have empathy as to why they might think that participation on the terms prescribed shafted them in the past and from their point of view is probably going to shaft them again.

To me the lizard people, flat-earthers and 5G (or whatever) people are in their own category, and I think we agree on that. They're not the people I'm referring to above.

Cheers I agree with all of that. A bit disappointed with that though I was keen for some Yarraville nets action.

[bornadog]

Not having listened to it myself Scraggers, Royal Children's Hospital (RCH) has a podcast available on Spotify called Kids Health Info. They have a brief ep they released on Friday about the latest in COVID-19 in children, and they did a longer one (42min) on Children and Covid-19 vaccines in August.

Also, Triple R community radio in Melbourne has a program every Sunday that it hosted by doctors talking all things health related called Radiotherapy. On 3/10, they spoke to Professor Fiona Russell (Paediatrician, Epidemiologist and Vaccinationologist at Uni Melb) about the impact of children returning to school after COVID restrictions, but also touched on vaccination. Unrelated, but in that same ep, they discuss concussion in community sport which I found really interesting. You can listen to the eps on rrr.org.au using their On-Demand feature.

I would just like to add that I am in no way affiliated with the RCH - I've just made a few stops to their emergency department as a parent!


Also:

https://www.health.gov.au/resources/publications/long-term-effects-of-covid-19-language-english

as for Children:


Long COVID and kids: scientists race to find answers
Children get long COVID too, but researchers are still working to determine how frequently and how severely.

article here (https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01935-7)

[Sedat]

There's people out there who don't trust government.
Why would anybody? All govts on all side of politics and all around the world have not stopped lying in relation to this issue from day 1 (actually they don't stop lying as part of their everyday function). And their lies have been ably abetted and enabled by big business, mainstream media and social media (none of these 3 groups have suffered any financial loss during the pandemic, quite the opposite in fact) in relation to controlling the narrative and messaging. Politicians are politicians precisely because they are talentles, lying grifters who literally only have one skill, that is to spend (almost always wastefully) other people's hard-earned money.

Another person's health and vax status was none of my business for the first 48 years of my life, it has remained none of my business in the last 18 months, and will continue to remain none of my business in the future. Politicians, being the shameless grifters that they are, have been successful in pitting society into warring tribes to cover for their own collective incompetence in managing all elements of this issue. It has been politicians, and nobody else, who have made the decisions to lockdown and rob people of their dignity and ability to earn a living and spend time with loved ones. Despite their best efforts to deflect, I will not play their game - they own it 100%

Specifically in relation to the AFLW player, aside from the fact that it is none of my business, I'm not about to offer advice to a registered nurse who has worked in ICU on which medicine she should or shouldn't ingest, when I work in marketing and sales. She is free to make her own mind up. Also I can't really see anything particularly controversial with Tom McDonald's comments. At such high vax take-up rates, the mandatory edicts are simply not necessary other than in the very short term, but it certainly allows politicians to ensure we are fighting amongst ourselves instead of pointing the finger of blame at their direction for their (almost always) errant and disastrous policy decisions.

As an aside, the whole left v right political discussion is weird to me. They are clearly all fundamentally awful people who do not care about anything other than holding onto power and enjoying enormous salaries without having any accountability measurements and targets that those of us in the private sector have on a daily basis (other than once every 3-4 year at the ballot box). Each to their own I guess - if blindly flowing one group of liars over another is your thing, go for it.

[Twodogs]

When seats belts became mandatory in the 70s lots of people carried on about freedom and forcing them to be safe. The safety was not just for the driver, but the safety of their passengers. ;)

I remember the time well. People saying that drivers and passengers would be trapped inside cars during accidents and be burned to death or that being thrown from the vehicle would be safer and that wearing a seatbelt would prevent that happening.

Then there was the "but I drive better drunk" cohort during the introduction of roadside breathtesting for .05.

[Sedat]

I have zero empathy for anyone tinfoiling about a safe, effective, clinically tested vaccine that is currently the key to getting our lives back.
Is it, though? How long until a lying pollie mandates into law multiple booster jabs in the future (and re-classifying everybody double-vaxxed as unvaccinated, which has already happened in Israel) despite this never being part of the plan until 5 mins ago, or announces a 'mystery variant' next winter that the current vaccines aren't as effective against and we are all locked down again? We're only up to Delta - there are still plenty of letters left in the Greek alphabet.

From my perspective, this isn't even about the vaccines, the vax mandates or even about COVID. It is about govt overreach in our everyday lives. And if anybody thinks this overreach will end with COVID, I'm sorry to say I don't think it will. I hate this overreach with every fibre of my being.

[Dry Rot]

Sedat,

How many times can I like your last two posts?

BTW, I have read of ambos and nurses who have seen the results of unreported vaccine injury and therefore do not want it.

I wish I had time to get really get into this thread, but my all time is taken up with helping my mother in Perth.

Lots of funny posts here. But no surprise, just reflects general community beliefs and ignorance.

And I mean really, ask a GP about vaccines? You would be better off asking a bricklayer. General population is no better, came across an idiot last week trying to tell that Astra Zeneca is just the like all the previous vaccines...

Trust doctors? I have had so much fun in cancer world over about 8 years helping an old guy. He could have sued so many for negligence at the start and I have to watch the good ones now for stuff ups. He'd be dead by now without my attitude and actions.

Trust the govt and people like Greg Hunt? Anyone got a memory? Remember the govt don't wear a mask lies told 18 months ago?

Trust Big Pharma? **** me, how many of you have actually worked for Big Pharma? I have, regularly instructed to lie and mislead.

The media? Absolute shockers running their agendas.

You see, I have done a very long pre-season before Covid.

Worked for Big Pharma for many years, worked on pandemics in 2005, developed a passion and massive interest in influenza after 2005, was one one of first in Australia to identify the start of Swine Flu (got it half and half wrong, good story), saw the lies and crap about that pandemic and the cover up with stats etc and the corrupt WHO, watched the media with their agenda shockers and lies with flu NB season 2017 and aways on the lookout for unexplained viral pneumonia around the world.

So I was primed for pandemic season 2020, and early that year I began to read about unexplained viral pneumonia in Wuhan....

[Dry Rot]

Two last things before I return to researching nursing homes.

Understand one thing, there is a big difference between old style "Anti-vaxxers" who wouldn't give their kid a polio vax, and people in the last couple of years who don't want a Covid vax/hesitant/question the govt/mainstream line. Yes, I know there is some overlap.

I belong to the latter group.

Secondly, any of you paying attention in the last 18 months? Remember the line that Covid vaccines are safe, effective and fully approved by the TGA?

Last bit was a really big lie. The vaccines you were being given were not approved, that's why you had to sign a consent form. Had to that for a flu shot? No. Pfizer was only properly approved in the USA in August from memory.

To quote Federal Health Minister Greg Hunt on Insiders on 21 February 2021 about Covid vaccines:

The world is engaged in the largest clinical trial, the largest global vaccination trial ever, and we will have enormous amounts of data.

https://www.health.gov.au/ministers/the-hon-greg-hunt-mp/media/interview-with-david-speers-on-abc-insiders-on-the-covid-19-vaccine-rollout

I am happy for now to sit out this world wide experiment. These style of vaccines, Pfizer and Moderna, and AZ and J&J have never been used before. They are radially different to previous vaccines. The medium and long term effects are unknown.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

The vaccine is an unknown. But what are we all meant to do? Sit in our houses forever waiting for the virus to die out? Or just open up and watch millions perish and our hospital system collapse? Or is it all overblown? Or a giant hoax?

Genuinely asking because those who don’t want to have the vaccine (which I can understand why) what is your solution?

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Why would anybody? All govts on all side of politics and all around the world have not stopped lying in relation to this issue from day 1 (actually they don't stop lying as part of their everyday function). And their lies have been ably abetted and enabled by big business, mainstream media and social media (none of these 3 groups have suffered any financial loss during the pandemic, quite the opposite in fact) in relation to controlling the narrative and messaging. Politicians are politicians precisely because they are talentles, lying grifters who literally only have one skill, that is to spend (almost always wastefully) other people's hard-earned money.

Another person's health and vax status was none of my business for the first 48 years of my life, it has remained none of my business in the last 18 months, and will continue to remain none of my business in the future. Politicians, being the shameless grifters that they are, have been successful in pitting society into warring tribes to cover for their own collective incompetence in managing all elements of this issue. It has been politicians, and nobody else, who have made the decisions to lockdown and rob people of their dignity and ability to earn a living and spend time with loved ones. Despite their best efforts to deflect, I will not play their game - they own it 100%

Specifically in relation to the AFLW player, aside from the fact that it is none of my business, I'm not about to offer advice to a registered nurse who has worked in ICU on which medicine she should or shouldn't ingest, when I work in marketing and sales. She is free to make her own mind up. Also I can't really see anything particularly controversial with Tom McDonald's comments. At such high vax take-up rates, the mandatory edicts are simply not necessary other than in the very short term, but it certainly allows politicians to ensure we are fighting amongst ourselves instead of pointing the finger of blame at their direction for their (almost always) errant and disastrous policy decisions.

As an aside, the whole left v right political discussion is weird to me. They are clearly all fundamentally awful people who do not care about anything other than holding onto power and enjoying enormous salaries without having any accountability measurements and targets that those of us in the private sector have on a daily basis (other than once every 3-4 year at the ballot box). Each to their own I guess - if blindly flowing one group of liars over another is your thing, go for it.

To be fair this applies to almost everyone. I don’t like politicians but I also don’t like heads of corporations. Greed has existed in our society for a long long time.

[boydogs]

Genuinely asking because those who don’t want to have the vaccine (which I can understand why) what is your solution?

I know a couple of vaccine hesitant people, the answer seems to be let everyone else be the guinea pigs. It's inherently selfish

[Dry Rot]

The vaccine is an unknown. But what are we all meant to do? Sit in our houses forever waiting for the virus to die out? Or just open up and watch millions perish and our hospital system collapse? Or is it all overblown? Or a giant hoax?



Maybe a slight mix of these.

I have not kept up with recent figures in the West. There was a time when the death rate was similar to flu and the great majority of infected people had no symptoms.

Some have the view that we should have protected and vaxxed the really vulnerable (which we still haven't done even now) but otherwise let it rip. Need to check current fatality figures. You do have better immunity from infection (assuming you survive) than from these vaxes.

As for solutions or perhaps just a really good thing to do, check out studies about Vitamin D and respiratory illnesses. There are even some around about Covid, including one I saw from Indonesia. In that they saw that if you have low Vit D you are > 90% to get Covid and also die from that.

Vitamin D is interesting to explore. I have pimped up my cancer guy with a few supplements but especially Vitamin D. He has bizarrely high Vit D for his age and health conditions. He should have died years ago but he hasn't. Some of his doctors now greet him with "I didn't think I would see you again".

Are they interested in this? No, it is not Big Pharma.

[Dry Rot]

I know a couple of vaccine hesitant people, the answer seems to be let everyone else be the guinea pigs. It's inherently selfish

Not my position. Nor people I know with similar views to mine.

BTW, do you know how Pfizer and AZ work?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-01-25/how-will-the-coronavirus-vaccine-work-once-administered/13090502

[Daughter of the West]

The vaccine is an unknown. But what are we all meant to do? Sit in our houses forever waiting for the virus to die out? Or just open up and watch millions perish and our hospital system collapse? Or is it all overblown? Or a giant hoax?

Genuinely asking because those who don’t want to have the vaccine (which I can understand why) what is your solution?

I was thinking the same.

I’m an accountant by trade (& not a very good one at that). I know nothing about diseases and epidemiology. I can’t overthrow WHO, or the government (I can have my one vote sure), I have neither the time nor expertise to sift through the literally endless information flying in all directions about what we should and shouldn’t be doing.

What does a lay person do at a micro level in all this?? This sort of stuff has honestly kept me awake since it all began, and I’m exhausted from running on anxiety and adrenaline (like every else no doubt).

[Dry Rot]

Not my position. Nor people I know with similar views to mine.

BTW, do you know how Pfizer and AZ work?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-01-25/how-will-the-coronavirus-vaccine-work-once-administered/13090502

They are totally different to any vax we have seen before.

[boydogs]

Legitimate question ... when you google long term effects of Covid vaccine, there is zero articles. There is plenty of information on the short term effects (flu-like symptoms etc) but nothing long term. Now, I know there hasn't been enough time for there to be long term data, but aren't all the vaccine choices based on other vaccination bases just with different protein spikes?

I'm double dosed, this is not about me ... but I don't know who to ask about my kids getting the shots. When I spoke with my doc, he said its completely safe, don't stress. I'm not an anti-vaxxer but I have no idea where to find info. I would love some WOOF suggestions on who to speak with or articles to read debunking any long-term effects :)

Long term effects from vaccines aren't really a thing. A vaccine is a dead virus that can't make you sick that teaches your body what to look for if you actually get infected. Vaccine side effects are your body overreacting, like an allergy, think hay fever

AstraZeneca was recommended for 60+ only as younger people have stronger immune systems and are more likely to overreact. The Queensland Uni vaccine bit the dust only because vaccinated people falsely tested positive for aids, but it didn't make anyone sick

Immune responses are short term, the articles below explain that no vaccine in human history has produced side effects beyond the first two months. It is of course a good throwaway line for anyone not wanting to be vaccinated as no-one can fast forward time to prove them wrong

https://www.muhealth.org/our-stories/how-do-we-know-covid-19-vaccine-wont-have-long-term-side-effects
https://wexnermedical.osu.edu/blog/covid-19-vaccine-long-term-side-effects

[Dry Rot]

I was thinking the same.

I’m an accountant by trade (& not a very good one at that). I know nothing about diseases and epidemiology. I can’t overthrow WHO, or the government (I can have my one vote sure), I have neither the time nor expertise to sift through the literally endless information flying in all directions about what we should and shouldn’t be doing.

What does a lay person do at a micro level in all this?? This sort of stuff has honestly kept me awake since it all began, and I’m exhausted from running on anxiety and adrenaline (like every else no doubt).

Not trusting doctors, Big Pharma and govts is a good start.

This guy is usually a good source of info. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCF9IOB2TExg3QIBupFtBDxg

Has good vids about Vitamin D. Get your level checked. You want to be >100.

[Dry Rot]

Long term effects from vaccines aren't really a thing. A vaccine is a dead virus that can't make you sick that teaches your body what to look for if you actually get infected. Vaccine side effects are your body overreacting, like an allergy, think hay fever



Are you taking the piss or do you know nothing about all of this?

What have traditional dead virus vaccines eg the flu vax got to do with mRNA and DNA Covid vaccines like Pfizer and AZ?

Have you had one of these? Did you think they gave you a good old dead virus vaccine?

If so, that's really funny, but sadly very common.

[Grantysghost]

The CDC (US) have some great short explainers :

Viral vector vaccines (AZ, J&J) : https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/viralvector.html

mRNA (Pfizer, Moderna): https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/mrna.html

There's also some good short videos in the more information sections.

The AZ is actually using the AdenoVirus (cold) from Chimpanzee poo genetically altered to deliver the necessary protection. It's all quite fascinating really.

[jeemak]

Here's a brief history of MRNA vaccines - from JHU:

https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2021/the-long-history-of-mrna-vaccines

[jeemak]

DR we need to be mindful of whether using individual anecdotal experiences to explain macro health issues is a great idea. I'm glad your friend who's surviving cancer is surviving cancer, and I hope your mother is going OK.

[Grantysghost]

Here's a brief history of MRNA vaccines - from JHU:

https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2021/the-long-history-of-mrna-vaccines

Yes it's nothing new, the challenge was keeping it in the body as it was ejected pretty quickly (my memory from talking to a scientist at ACDP).

Edit : And what your thing says :cool:

[Scraggers]

Long term effects from vaccines aren't really a thing. A vaccine is a dead virus that can't make you sick that teaches your body what to look for if you actually get infected. Vaccine side effects are your body overreacting, like an allergy, think hay fever

AstraZeneca was recommended for 60+ only as younger people have stronger immune systems and are more likely to overreact. The Queensland Uni vaccine bit the dust only because vaccinated people falsely tested positive for aids, but it didn't make anyone sick

Immune responses are short term, the articles below explain that no vaccine in human history has produced side effects beyond the first two months. It is of course a good throwaway line for anyone not wanting to be vaccinated as no-one can fast forward time to prove them wrong

https://www.muhealth.org/our-stories/how-do-we-know-covid-19-vaccine-wont-have-long-term-side-effects
https://wexnermedical.osu.edu/blog/covid-19-vaccine-long-term-side-effects

Thank you :)

[Bulldog4life]

So many experts on WOOF. I am 70 yo with a number of health issues. My various drs advised me to get the jab. I did. I feel very comfortable with my decision.

[bornadog]

If you don't like the policy, don't play


The AFL has released its Covid-19 vaccination policy, which, “in general terms”, will require all AFL and AFLW players and football program staff to be vaccinated before the start of their respective seasons.

Outlined in the policy, formed in conjunction with the AFL Players’ Association, is the requirement of all AFL players and football program staff to be fully vaccinated by February 18, 2022.


Those who, without good reason, do not comply with the policy will not be able to attend their club or any AFL premises to either train or play.

[whythelongface]

So many experts on WOOF. I am 70 yo with a number of health issues. My various drs advised me to get the jab. I did. I feel very comfortable with my decision.

Exactly. Think I will leave it to those with knowledge, including my BIL, who is a viral disease specialist rather than some random people on a forum. I am comfortable getting vaccinated and also comfortable getting further jabs where necessary. If I wasn’t comfortable getting vaccines that have been scientifically developed and tested how the hell do I explain my desire to pop a pill or two in my younger days that could have been manufactured by anyone.

I have no issue if people don’t get the jab and I certainly don’t have any issue with any organisation, business, community group etc refusing entry or not allowing participation for those whom are unvaccinated.

[Axe Man]

Superstar? :confused:

AFL: West Coast Eagles superstar Jack Darling banned from training (https://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/afl-west-coast-eagles-superstar-jack-darling-banned-from-training/news-story/39959078f764f200e33950c26d2be989)

West Coast Eagles star Jack Darling’s playing future is in doubt after his failure to comply with the AFL’s Covid-19 vaccine mandate led him to be banned from training with his teammates.

Regardless of the government regulations in their club’s home state, AFL players are required to have had two doses of an approved vaccine in order to train and take the field this season.

The Eagles said on Friday morning they were “optimistic” the premiership-winning forward would soon return to pre-season training but confirmed he would be forced to train away from his teammates until he became vaccinated.

“While Jack will take some time to assess his future he will train independently of the remainder of the squad,” the Eagles said.

“The club will continue to support Jack as he contemplates his options and is optimistic that he will return to build on his outstanding career to date.

“While the club does respect the right to personal choice it also supports the protocols put in place by the AFL and Governments – both Federal and State – as they navigate their way through this persistent and challenging pandemic.”

Darling has played 236 games for West Coast since making his senior debut in 2011 and was a member of the 2018 premiership-winning side.

[soupman]

Superstar? :confused:

Considering they use the word "Star" in any headline involving an ex AFL listed player (the Ben Cavarra/Billy Gowers level player) this is naturally where they end up when they need a headline about someone who is actually good.

Also imagine tearing up a $500-700K salary because you don't want a couple of needles.

[Bulldog Joe]

Considering they use the word "Star" in any headline involving an ex AFL listed player (the Ben Cavarra/Billy Gowers level player) this is naturally where they end up when they need a headline about someone who is actually good.

Also imagine tearing up a $500-700K salary because you don't want a couple of needles.

How would he have coped if he has been drafted to Essendon.

[Hotdog60]

How would he have coped if he has been drafted to Essendon.

That's the weird thing about some of these non vaxers is what other chemicals have they put into their bodies not directed at footballers but in general.

[EasternWest]

Superstar? :confused:

AFL: West Coast Eagles superstar Jack Darling banned from training (https://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/afl-west-coast-eagles-superstar-jack-darling-banned-from-training/news-story/39959078f764f200e33950c26d2be989)

West Coast Eagles star Jack Darling’s playing future is in doubt after his failure to comply with the AFL’s Covid-19 vaccine mandate led him to be banned from training with his teammates.

Regardless of the government regulations in their club’s home state, AFL players are required to have had two doses of an approved vaccine in order to train and take the field this season.

The Eagles said on Friday morning they were “optimistic” the premiership-winning forward would soon return to pre-season training but confirmed he would be forced to train away from his teammates until he became vaccinated.

“While Jack will take some time to assess his future he will train independently of the remainder of the squad,” the Eagles said.

“The club will continue to support Jack as he contemplates his options and is optimistic that he will return to build on his outstanding career to date.

“While the club does respect the right to personal choice it also supports the protocols put in place by the AFL and Governments – both Federal and State – as they navigate their way through this persistent and challenging pandemic.”

Darling has played 236 games for West Coast since making his senior debut in 2011 and was a member of the 2018 premiership-winning side.

Did they tell him it would be delivered by way of a floating high ball?

Edit: please don't like this post I use the same joke every time Jack Darling comes up. I am undeserving of your love.

[Ghost Dog]

https://www.womens.afl/news/74985

Bit of a contrast to our very publicly fully vaccinated AFLM squad.

I'd say she will be struggling to get work as a nurse as well.