Is the AFL becoming a private school comp? And does it matter?

[Dry Rot]

An interesting article about the young players feeding the AFL and NRL. Article claims that the AFL is the increasing numbers of players coming into the national competition off scholarships at private schools.

Does it matter?

Schools of thought: How pathways are leading footy codes in different directions
Roy MastersNovember 16, 2021 — 7.45pm

As NRL clubs consider the players they will recruit for 2022 and AFL clubs assess their options at the national draft held at the end of this month, it is timely to note the considerable difference between the two codes on the schools from which their players are drawn.

The biggest problem of the AFL, according to Aussie rules luminaries I spoke to recently, is the increasing numbers of players coming into the national competition off scholarships at private schools.

If that is the AFL’s biggest problem, then it is one the NRL would like to have, given the perception that rugby league’s major challenge is the bad behaviour of its players.

Some would argue that the AFL’s biggest problem is the solution to the NRL’s enduring headache. That is, if future NRL players were educated in private schools, they would emerge as better-behaved citizens.

Well, that’s an elitist view and one which denigrates the dedicated work of teachers and coaches in the NSW and Queensland state education systems.

And it’s not as if private schools transform their future AFL players into saints, judging by the St Kevins College, Melbourne old boy who publicly burnt his school blazer in protest at the alleged behaviour of Collingwood player Jordan De Goey.


De Goey, who attended the same Toorak school, was charged with assault late last month in New York. He will vigorously defend the charge and Collingwood have stood him down. Admittedly, the behaviour he is accused of doesn’t seem as heinous as the rampage by NRL player, Matthew Lodge, six years earlier in the same city.

But the Melbourne media did not pursue De Goey as relentlessly as the Sydney media demanded the NRL take action against Lodge. It’s a further example of what some see as a reason for the perceived difference in the alleged behaviour of players in the rival codes – not simply education but the difference in reporting by the respective media.

Still, the contrasting school background of the players in the two codes is interesting. In 2019, according to a report in The Age, the Victorian government schools system accounted for 55 per cent of Year 12 enrolments but produced only 30 per cent of AFL players. Catholic schools had 24 per cent of final school year enrolments and 31 per cent of AFL players, while the wealthy independent schools comprised 21 per cent of enrolments but 39 per cent of AFL players.

The difference is largely explained by the increasing number of talented footballers awarded scholarships at the end of primary school or Year 10 and tenable to elite private schools.

The consequent decline in competitiveness of the Victorian government school system as a producer of AFL players is the problem identified by my Aussie rules sources.

However, while the AFL concedes this may be a problem in 20 years, it insists the code remains equally accessible for all. “Talented players get to play in the Victorian NAB League, which is the major pathway to the AFL,” a spokesman said. “Overall, it is a higher standard of football than any of the respective schools competitions and accessible to anyone under 19, even those who have left school.”

The pathways to the NRL are diverse, including the increasing numbers of Pasifika players who were educated overseas. No statistics are kept on the school background of NRL players but a study of the players selected for the NSW State of Origin team the past two years shows a relatively even division between those from non-government schools and government ones.

The government schools are also equally divided between those from the NSW sports high schools (Endeavour, Matraville, The Hills, Illawarra) and standard comprehensive high schools. Most of the products of non government schools are from the Catholic system, while only two players attended elite private schools – Cameron Murray (Newington) and Angus Crichton (Kings).

Sydney’s private schools have long been the bastion of rugby union, but AFL posts are sprouting up on their campuses like triffids, suggesting they may become a future source of elite players, as they are in Melbourne. However, the Victorian government system does not have NSW’s spread of sports high schools, which means low-income parents can send their athletic progeny to the free state system, rather than rely on a scholarship to a high fee-paying private school.

Comparing the grand final teams in both codes, the Western Bulldogs – perceived as a working-class club – had more graduates of private schools than Melbourne – an establishment club. The NRL’s grand final teams, not surprisingly, had minimal private school products, while players from schools like Dorrigo, Rooty Hill and Nowra show that the government comprehensive schools are still producing talent.

[Daughter of the West]

I remember reading something similar a couple of years ago, I think the article at the time focussed on Carey.

Both Essendon Keilor College and Maribyrnong College have AFL programs - have they produced any footballers of note in recent times?

[bornadog]

In the grand final, we had more players that attended Private Schools than Melbourne did.

It is a shame that Government schools don't have proper programmes to nurture Aussie Rules kids.

[mjp]

I have a lot of thoughts on this.

I'm not sure I'm up to the emotion writing those thoughts would cause me but it goes a little like this:

- The AFL clubs are quite literally scared of anything that doesn't 'shine'.
- The various talent programs across all footy states are much the same - and make some quite ridiculous allowances for private school students (allowances that are simply NOT provided to their public school brethren).
- The coverage of private school footy - in all states - far exceeds the standard of the competitions and the old-boys network promote kids coming through from their school rather than from their junior club or state-league/NAB league club.
- The schools take little to no responsibility for preparing their players for the season. The state-league/NAB League clubs do all the work running pre-season programs...then in late March the season starts and the schools swoop in and take the players...fine - I guess...but is there any wonder that those participating in those programs (up to 12 from each school) enjoy dominant seasons playing vs teams where half the players dont have the same fitness base?
- The media are in league with the private schools and REPEATEDLY promote the private school that players come from. They quite literally never mention players from public schools or - shock horror, anyone who might have left early to pursue a trade (unless they want to poke fun at Jack Higgins for electing not to finish year 12).

[Dry Rot]

mjp,

Interesting post.

Should a wily club take a contrarian approach and really focus on talented public school lads who are otherwise being overlooked?

[Mofra]

That kid who left school early to work 10-12 hours a day as a forkie did ok in the AFL system.
Dustin Martin

It's like some kids who are 'self starters' and should be marked higher by recruiters are marked more harshly.

I do note that we have benefited from FS picks more than most clubs and our players do tend to send a lot of their kids to St Kevins.
Plus the APS scholarship scheme for notable talented kids like Marra and Cyril Rioli as boarders bumps up the private school numbers too.

[jeemak]

mjp,

Interesting post.

Should a wily club take a contrarian approach and really focus on talented public school lads who are otherwise being overlooked?

I'm not sure what it's like now, but when I was a lad the standard of public school football was really poor and the games/ scheduling severely lacked organisation.

It's the Sunday footy comps where these kids might get to shine to hopefully get onto a NAB league list.

[bornadog]

I'm not sure what it's like now, but when I was a lad the standard of public school football was really poor and the games/ scheduling severely lacked organisation.

It's the Sunday footy comps where these kids might get to shine to hopefully get onto a NAB league list.

I don't know if it is still true, but many years ago, Gov schools stopped Sport as a compulsory activity, which I think was wrong.
Private Schools still have sport as something everyone must play.

Back when I went to school,we had a proper competition between schools in a district playing all sorts of sports including Football. Although I went to a pretty crappy school, we did produce a couple of AFL footballers.

[jeemak]

There were footy and cricket, softball and netball teams to join etc. but it wasn't compulsory (I finished late nineties). There was also running/ cross country and athletics etc. based on who performed well at school athletics days. For each you would go onto district, regional, and then state level competitions.

State schools are too fragmented and it would be very costly to run a well organised competition.

[The Underdog]

Channel 7 commentators can barely call a game without mentioning which private school everybody went to. Drives me *!*!*!*!ing insane.

[chef]

Is because more talented footballers are getting more scholarships nowadays?

[Grantysghost]

Is because more talented footballers are getting more scholarships nowadays?

I think it's changed.

Two guys I went to school with made it. They were adults at 15 though.
Tyson Lane, Shane Ellen.

It's rare to see guys come from that type of school now.

I knew Tyson personally growing up, he was a man at 15 like seriously shaving etc.
Also; an arrogant bastard but I stood under a pack one day and watched him climb over it and take the greatest mark I've ever seen.

I kicked 3 in the first qtr (didn't get drafted wasn't shaving until 25).

Edit : Darren Stanley.

I was friends with his brother Shaun who was the best player I'd seen probably.

[boydogs]

I think it's changed.

Two guys I went to school with made it. They were adults at 15 though.
Tyson Lane, Shane Ellen.

It's rare to see guys come from that type of school now.

I knew Tyson personally growing up, he was a man at 15 like seriously shaving etc.
Also; an arrogant bastard but I stood under a pack one day and watched him climb over it and take the greatest mark I've ever seen.

I kicked 3 in the first qtr (didn't get drafted wasn't shaving until 25).

Edit : Darren Stanley.

I was friends with his brother Shaun who was the best player I'd seen probably.

Worked with Tyson in Cairns post career, didn't see that side of him, might have been white line fever or he just grew out of it

[Grantysghost]

Worked with Tyson in Cairns post career, didn't see that side of him, might have been white line fever or he just grew out of it

This was 15 ish, so yeah probably grew out of it. When you're a man at 15 hard not to walk around like the king.
He was certainly proud of himself.

[Twodogs]

I remember reading something similar a couple of years ago, I think the article at the time focussed on Carey.

Both Essendon Keilor College and Maribyrnong College have AFL programs - have they produced any footballers of note in recent times?

Touk Miller went to Maribyrnong.


As a matter of interest Maribyrnong is an anglicised version of an Aboriginal term 'Mirring-gnay-bir-nong', which translates as 'I can hear a ringtail possum' There are certainly plenty of possums around here at the moment.

[Twodogs]

That kid who left school early to work 10-12 hours a day as a forkie did ok in the AFL system.
Dustin Martin

It's like some kids who are 'self starters' and should be marked higher by recruiters are marked more harshly.

I do note that we have benefited from FS picks more than most clubs and our players do tend to send a lot of their kids to St Kevins.
Plus the APS scholarship scheme for notable talented kids like Marra and Cyril Rioli as boarders bumps up the private school numbers too.

I wouldn't have let my kids anywhere near St Kevin's. When I was younger I knew heaps of Kevies old boys and they weren't exactly shining examples of their school.

[EasternWest]

I wouldn't have let my kids anywhere near St Kevin's. When I was younger I knew heaps of Kevies old boys and they weren't exactly shining examples of their school.

Didn't Jordan de Goey go to St Kevin's?

[Twodogs]

Didn't Jordan de Goey go to St Kevin's?

I believe so.


https://www.pedestrian.tv/news/melbourne-st-kevins-burning-blazer/


If you've ever seen the film Dogs In Space, most of the guys in the band it's based on met at St Kevins.

[jeemak]

This was 15 ish, so yeah probably grew out of it. When you're a man at 15 hard not to walk around like the king.
He was certainly proud of himself.

Yeah and senior footy certainly sorted him out. A girl I knew dated him for a while, at least in his early twenties he was reportedly still not grown out of it but glad to hear form boydogs he seemed to.

[jeemak]

St Kevins was known as Toorak Tech for a long time for a good reason.

[EasternWest]

I believe so.


I'll set em up, you knock em down.

Coincidentally that's Jordan and his mates pick up routine too.

[bornadog]

I wouldn't have let my kids anywhere near St Kevin's. When I was younger I knew heaps of Kevies old boys and they weren't exactly shining examples of their school.

Libba and Wallis went to St Kevs

[Twodogs]

I'll set em up, you knock em down.

Coincidentally that's Jordan and his mates pick up routine too.

I had to explain to my mum what a wingman was the other night. Some mentioned it on the telly.


"Well mum, you know how girls usually go out in pairs?"

[mjp]

It's not the "SCHOOL" as such that is the reason why private school students are prioritised. It's what it represents about the player and their background.

1/. They have some family support available. Even if that support is primarily financial, you wouldn't find too many private school kids doing a 'Sydney Stack' and sleeping on whatever couch he could beg or borrow for the night whilst playing u18 footy (be it colts or NAB league the principle is the same.

2/. They are WELL experienced in doing stuff "ON TIME". To me, this is one of the great problems with the demise of the AFL Academy programs (apart from a personal loss of income and free travel!) - kids who weren't used to 'doing much' had to learn (quickly) to act as a collective, get to a meeting/meal/session on time and in uniform. I know this will be sneezed at by many but it is a massive issue with players entering into 'talent pathway footy' who are straight out of (for example) Hoppers Crossing Y10's. Just learning how to 'get along' is a big (BIG) problem - and footy clubs have higher expectations and lower tolerance levels that public high schools...mainly because footy clubs can simply say "SEE YA" whereas the Public High School needs to work through a P&D process (sorry, punishment and discipline - you know, parent meetings, detention, suspension etc) and EVEN THEN probably still needs to allow them to continue to be enrolled...

3/. A clear understanding of hierarchy and an ability to respect it. I guess this is part of the previous point but a kid from a private school would never do what one recent draftee did and arrange to meet a club at his house...only to decide that he probably didn't want to play there anyway so just decided not to be there and turned his phone off...I mean, NEVER might be too strong a word but it is also probably an accurate one...and again, this isn't reflective of the 'school' as such - and 99% of public school kids wouldn't do this either - but it is more a general comment on the general 'picture' - private school represents family support, an ability to follow the rules and an understanding that 'work' has to be done...versus the picture that public schools represent broken families, kids who are ill-disciplined in terms of work/play and lack basic time management/self management skills.

Do I think any of this is true? Maybe. Sometimes. I don't know. But the recruiters CLEARLY do emphasise it. You would have to ask them why they behave this way. Clearly based on the public/private school mix in the NRL (the second most popular football sport in Australia and the dominant code in both Sydney and Brisbane) there is more than enough athletic potential in the public school system...but there is the perception that potential has more baggage attached.

[SquirrelGrip]

And so our top 3 picks all attended elite private schools:

Darce - Scotch
King Arthur - Wesley WA
“Lucky Phil” Cleary - Haileybury

[Jeanette54]

Footy isn't the only sport with a private/state school divide. Cricket is another, although the reasons may be a little different, but then maybe not.

Almost every test batsman (I refuse to say batter) in living memory came from a private school. Three reasons, better coaching, more influential contacts (the old boy network) and turf wickets (ie. sporting facilities). You probably have to go back to Jeff Thompson and Lenny Pascoe to find state school cricketers at the highest level.

[Twodogs]

Footy isn't the only sport with a private/state school divide. Cricket is another, although the reasons may be a little different, but then maybe not.

Almost every test batsman (I refuse to say batter) in living memory came from a private school. Three reasons, better coaching, more influential contacts (the old boy network) and turf wickets (ie. sporting facilities). You probably have to go back to Jeff Thompson and Lenny Pascoe to find state school cricketers at the highest level.

Colin Miller and Merv Hughes both went to state schools. I think that Tony Dodemaide went to Chisholm college in Braybrook.

[jeemak]

David Warner isn't from a private school, Ricky Ponting left high school after year ten and went to work at a private school as a grounds maintenance staffer.

[Twodogs]

David Warner isn't from a private school, Ricky Ponting left high school after year ten and went to work at a private school as a grounds maintenance staffer.

In 1902 the Prince of Wales was being introduced to Australian fast bowler Ernie Jones and found out he was from Adelaide. The prince said "Ah, Adelaide. Tell me did you go to Prince Alfred college?" "Yes, your majesty." said Ernie "I drive the shit cart through it twice a week"

[bornadog]

Melbourne public school hits draft home run (https://www.afl.com.au/news/690060/melbourne-public-school-hits-draft-home-run-bombers-great-proud)


The college in Melbourne's south-east that's proving you don't have to be at a private school to get drafted

full story in link

[Dry Rot]

You probably have to go back to Jeff Thompson and Lenny Pascoe to find state school cricketers at the highest level.

Or even Sydney grade cricket.

What happened when you played against Thommo and Pascoe for Bankstown?

Jeff Thomson relives the day he terrorised Mosman in grade game

https://www.sportingnews.com/au/cricket/news/jeff-thomson-relives-the-day-he-terrorised-mosman-in-grade-game/9zmnmqdmso201bf90j387r886

[jeemak]

Melbourne public school hits draft home run (https://www.afl.com.au/news/690060/melbourne-public-school-hits-draft-home-run-bombers-great-proud)


The college in Melbourne's south-east that's proving you don't have to be at a private school to get drafted

full story in link

Generally speaking I think there needs to be more space for public schools that offer creative, sporting and craft types (to name but a few different types of kids, but you get my drift) things geared towards their interests rather than the low variation and almost cookie cutter education in the public school system. The way things are currently done too many kids fall through the cracks and are at the mercy of the economy of the day (or five year cycle) to determine whether they have any prospects or otherwise should they choose to leave school early. And I'm not saying it should be a free for all do whatever approach at these specialised public schools, more so, just something to keep kids in the system longer so they can mature and experience what they want to experience and don't go into an unstructured abyss.

I guess this is what technical colleges of the day used to attempt to do, though a lot about learning and cognitive development has been discovered since they were phased out. It seems pretty silly that we try and address the consequences of cookie cutter education downstream when a few tweaks upstream whilst requiring investment would change the future for a lot of kids (and the public purse) for the better.

Anyway, enough from me on how the education system should work. I guess the point of what's happening in Rowville is great for getting kids drafted, but it's pretty much just a reflection of what kids in private schools get plus a little more, so nothing revolutionary/ game changing.

But thanks for posting BAD, and getting me out of the thoughtless posting cycle I've been stuck in for a few weeks (some may say longer) since I purchased a puppy and have been getting smashed at work.