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GVGjr
15-02-2022, 09:13 PM
CD regards these players elite as we head into the 2022 season

There are surprises aplenty in Champion Data’s list of elite players heading into the 2022 season.

Several big names failed to make the list including reigning Brownlow Medallist Ollie Wines, Carlton star Sam Walsh, St Kilda skipper Jack Steele, Melbourne premiership captain Max Gawn and Geelong gun Patrick Dangerfield.

Four All-Australians were also not rated in the elite category – Demons defender Steven May, Essendon ball-magnet Zach Merrett, Sydney forward Tom Papley and Carlton spearhead Harry McKay.

Brownlow Medallist Gerard Healy is in complete agreement with Champion Data’s assessment of McKay – last year’s Coleman Medallist.

“I couldn’t agree more with Champion Data on this,” Healy told Sportsday.

“I think Harry McKay is a long way from being elite. He has got miles to improve in many aspects of the game.

“If you want to be an elite player, you have to be good in all facets of the game and probably have something that you’re nearly the best at.

“He’s elite in accuracy, but he’s not elite in winning the ball.”

The Western Bulldogs have seven players in the elite bracket – the most of any club – while reigning premiers Melbourne have just three.

To be classified as elite by Champion Data, you must have played at least 10 games and rank in the top 10 per cent of your position.

Adelaide (3)

Elite: Jordan Dawson (general defender), Taylor Walker (key forward), Paul Seedsman (wing)

Brisbane Lions (5)

Elite: Daniel Rich (general defender), Lincoln McCarthy (general forward), Harris Andrews (key defender), Dayne Zorko (midfielder), Hugh McCluggage (wing)

Carlton (3)

Elite: Adam Saad (general defender), Zac Williams (general defender), Jacob Weitering (key defender)

Collingwood (4)

Elite: Jack Crisp (general defender), Jamie Elliott (general forward), Darcy Moore (key defender), Brodie Grundy (ruck)

Essendon (3)

Elite: Nick Hind (general defender), Darcy Parish (midfielder), Jake Stringer (mid-forward)

Fremantle (2)

Elite: Sam Switkowski (general forward), Sean Darcy (ruck)

Geelong Cats (3)

Elite: Tom Stewart (general defender), Tom Hawkins (key forward), Sam Menegola (wing)

Gold Coast Suns (1)

Elite: Touk Miller (midfielder)

GWS Giants (1)

Elite: Toby Greene (general forward)

Hawthorn (4)

Elite: Jack Scrimshaw (general defender), Luke Breust (general defender), Dylan Moore (general forward), Chad Wingard (mid-forward)

Melbourne (3)

Elite: Jake Lever (key defender), Clayton Oliver (midfielder), Christian Petracca (midfielder)

North Melbourne (1)

Elite: Aaron Hall (general defender)

Port Adelaide (6)

Elite: Zak Butters (general forward), Robbie Gray (general forward), Aliir Aliir (key defender), Jeremy Finlayson (key forward), Charlie Dixon (key forward), Karl Amon (wing)

Richmond (1)

Elite: Dustin Martin (mid-forward)

St Kilda (1)

Elite: Jack Sinclair (general defender)

Sydney Swans (3)

Elite: Isaac Heeney (general forward), Lance Franklin (key forward), Tom Hickey (ruck)

West Coast Eagles (2)

Elite: Liam Ryan (general forward), Nic Naitanui (ruck)

Western Bulldogs (7)

Elite: Bailey Dale (general defender), Caleb Daniel (general defender), Marcus Bontempelli (midfielder), Tom Liberatore (midfielder), Jack Macrae (midfielder), Adam Treloar (mid-forward), Bailey Smith (wing)

Grantysghost
15-02-2022, 09:24 PM
Jeremy Finlayson?

Elite knob head.

jazzadogs
15-02-2022, 10:46 PM
Gerard says "I think Harry McKay is a long way from being elite. He has got miles to improve in many aspects of the game. If you want to be an elite player, you have to be good in all facets of the game and probably have something that you’re nearly the best at."

I reckon he's got a fair claim to being the best at kicking goals...certainly a claim over Jeremy Finlayson!!

Interesting that the top 10% of key defenders is only 4 players - Moore, Weitering, Harris Andrews and Aliir Aliir. Interesting in the view of our player polls - e.g. I voted for Keath as elite but he is right on the edge of that group with Steven May.

boydogs
16-02-2022, 12:00 AM
7 for us, highest of any club, only 3 at Melbourne

josie
16-02-2022, 12:31 AM
No Gawn?

FrediKanoute
16-02-2022, 01:53 AM
7 for us, highest of any club, only 3 at Melbourne

That suggests that our Premiership window is wide open! We have to make the most of it in 2022.

comrade
16-02-2022, 07:45 AM
Bit stiff, where’s Naughts and Keath…

Go_Dogs
16-02-2022, 08:01 PM
No Gawn?

Yes, glaring omission - played some incredible football in big games and seemed to do a lot of the stuff CD rate (goals, contest marks, contested ball)

comrade
16-02-2022, 08:56 PM
Yeah, if Gawn isn’t considered elite by CD’s criteria, then the criteria is completely stuffed.

GVGjr
16-02-2022, 09:13 PM
I get that it's largely a stats based assessment and a different way of looking at players but Oliie Wines and Jack Steele would be regarded by most as elite.

Bulldog Joe
17-02-2022, 09:20 AM
It is hard to imagine any statistical analysis that rates Jeremy Finlayson as elite and doesn't recognise Max Gawn.

There would only be about 20 players at every club that I would pick before Jeremy Finlayson.

I know Finlayson is an elite kick, but it is not Grid Iron skills that we should be assessing.

azabob
17-02-2022, 09:33 AM
Bit stiff, where’s Naughts and Keath…

Naughton is anything but elite in performing the most critical part of his job.

Mofra
17-02-2022, 09:50 AM
No Stephen May either.
Jack Sinclair makes the cut for the saints but no Jack Steele.

This list serves as a cautionary tale on the dangers of relying solely on stats to judge a players' value.

I'd hate to think where Champion Data ranked Dale "2nd in the B&F in a Premiership year" Morris.

Mofra
17-02-2022, 09:52 AM
Naughton is anything but elite in performing the most critical part of his job.
The no 1 contested marking player in the competition?
Most coaches would consider him a danger. By my count only 3 of the forwards listed above get the no 1 defender every week.

Grantysghost
17-02-2022, 09:52 AM
No Stephen May either.
Jack Sinclair makes the cut for the saints but no Jack Steele.

This list serves as a cautionary tale on the dangers of relying solely on stats to judge a players' value.

I'd hate to think where Champion Data ranked Dale "2nd in the B&F in a Premiership year" Morris.

All the clubs use their stats too.

mjp
17-02-2022, 01:49 PM
All the clubs use their stats too.

Stats are only part of the story.

I think articles like this give everyone a unique opportunity to bash Champion Data...as always though, it isn't the numbers but how you use them that actually matters.

I look at a side such as Richmond who have ONE elite player listed...they could win the premiership this season...Melbourne have 3 elite players and we have 7? On GF day it looked as if Melbourne had the greater number (by FAR) and it also appeared as if Jackson was the best player in the competition...I guess it's nice for our boys to see their names in this list but it doesn't count for much.

Mofra
17-02-2022, 03:17 PM
All the clubs use their stats too.
They can be tied to specific roles to show how a particular player is performing i.e. Vandermeer topping the 'repeat sprints' stat as a quick defensive forward.

The stats are pretty useless as a broad league-wise ranking system.

bornadog
17-02-2022, 04:11 PM
How the numbers are derived:


Champion Data’s AFL analyst Daniel Hoyne has revealed aspects of the system behind how the statistics juggernaut judge AFL players.

The analytics business is behind the statistics used across the AFL and has come under fire for their annual release of player ratings for 2022.


There were a number of strange selections in their ‘elite’ category, Kane Cornes questioning how Jeremy Finlayson, Dylan Moore, Adam Saad, Zac Williams and Aaron Hall could be rated so highly.


Hoyne spoke to Sportsday WA to shed light on how the ratings are calibrated, highlighting “three key areas” on how players are judged.


“These ratings are based off the official AFL player ratings,” he said.


“Basically, they take into account three key areas of the game. The first being how you win the ball, the second being where on the ground you win the ball, and then the third being how you actually use the ball.


“So players that win the ball in a contest, in a damaging area of the ground and then use it well are going to be rated really high in the system.


“Players that are really accurate in front of goal are going to be rated really high in the system as well.


“The ratings judge inaccuracy harshly, and if you’re accurate, like a Jeremy Finlayson, you get rated favourably.”


Hoyne agreed that a number of inclusions in the ‘elite’ category have been viewed controversially, including that of Finlayson’s. However, he believes there will always be outliers because the system isn’t perfect.


“A couple in that small forward bracket have created a fair bit of conversation in Victoria, one of them being Sam Switkowski… but the other was Dylan Moore, for Hawthorn.


“He’s another young small forward who rated himself in that elite bracket probably caught a few people by surprise.


“There’s a few questionable ones, Jeremy Finalyson for example as to why he’s categorized as he has been, which a lot of people don’t agree with, which is absolutely fair enough.


“We don’t agree with all of those ratings, but there’s no perfect formula or perfect system.”


Switkowski averaged 12 disposals and under a goal a game in 2021, while Moore averaged 15 disposals and kicked 27 goals in 20 matches.


Hoyne also revealed West Coast ruckman Nic Naitanui had been rated the best in the game by the system by a decent stretch.


Naitanui managed to play every game in 2022 for the Eagles, averaging 31 hitouts, 15 disposals and seven clearances.


“Overall, we compare position to position, but if you’re looking across the whole competition, we had ‘Nic Nat’ as the number one rated player in the competition last year, and by some margin as well,” Hoyne continued.


“If you look at what he does, he wins more contested possession than any other ruckman in the competition, he wins a lot more clearances than any other ruckman in the competition.


“While he doesn’t kick the goals, in terms of his ability to create them and generate scores from his ruck work, there’s no one else in the competition that compares to him.


“It gets back to the impact, that’s what the ratings are trying to measure, and there’s no player in the competition who has a greater impact than what he does on the ground.”


Naitanui averaged just 68 per cent time on ground last year, making last year’s numbers even more remarkable. link (https://www.sen.com.au/news/2022/02/17/the-best-player-in-the-afl-in-2021-by-some-margin-according-to-champion-data/)

PS: Can a mod please change the heading to the correct spelling