Rd 2 2008 - Melbourne vs Western Bulldogs match preview

[Mantis]

In a first for the WOOF site I have written up a preview of this week's game for some meaningful discussion. So here goes....

Match: Melbourne vs Western Bulldogs – MCG – Sat March 30 – 2.10pm

Recent Form: Melbourne started the season in the worst possible way with a 104pt hiding at the hands of the rampant Hawks. The Bulldogs just scrapped over the line against the Crows with a hard fought 3pt win topping off a great day in celebration of captain Brad Johnson’s 300th game.

Recent matches between these 2 teams:

Rd 19 2006 – TD – Melbourne 19.15.129 def Western Bulldogs 12.15.87

- Led by a dominant midfield Melbourne surged away from the Dogs in the 2nd and 3rd
qtr’s kicking 11 goals to 3.

Brownlow votes: 3. N. Jones, 2. B. Holland, 1. B. Green

Rd 7 2006 – TD – Western Bulldogs 16.16.112 def Melbourne 16.10.106

- After a sluggish start the Bulldogs gained the upper hand with a dominant 2nd qtr. The 2nd half come back by Melbourne made for an exciting last qtr. A late goal to Eagleton sealed the win for Bulldogs.

Brownlow votes: 3. B. Johnson, 2. A. Davey, 1. D. Cross

Players missing/ At the selection table:

Western Bulldogs – An ankle injury puts Eagleton in doubt and would join Ray, Williams and Everitt and possibly Harbrow as members of best 22 on the sidelines. Harbrow could be an inclusion for Eagleton, but has had only had 1 practice match after a 4 week lay off due to shin splints. This may be the only change although there may be a need to bring in an extra tall defender to cope with Newton, Neitz and Holland, well may be anyway??

Melbourne: - Colin Sylvia will be welcomed back after serving his 1 match club enforced suspension. Matthew Bate is also a chance of returning from a hamstring injury, but what they do with the team is anyone’s guess. Lynden Dunn, Matthew Whelan and Jared Rivers would also be close to selection.

I think Bailey may keep the faith with the player’s under the pump in the press, but another performance like rd 1 might mean a massive change in direction, but who knows the new coach may want to make a statement, guess we will find out later in the week.

Style of play/ team structure’s:

Western Bulldogs – The Bulldogs play a dangerous game, almost a shoot-out style. They back themselves to purely kick more goals than the opposition. Teams who deny the ball carrier time and the leading player’s space to lead tend to have a good record against the Dogs.

So what was different last week to last year?

Forwards- The forward-line structure had changed a fair bit. Welsh and Minson give the team another leading player from the square who is a strong mark and an excellent converter and a big gorilla who gives the team the option of the long bomb to the top of square, which hasn’t been there in the past. The talented small forwards in Johnson, Murphy and Giansiracusa will continue to cause the opposition headaches.

Midfield - The midfield has acquired a much needed ruckman of AFL standard who is both strong in the contest in the air and on the ground. Hudson works well around the ground and gives an option which probably hasn’t been there for the past 3 or 4 years. Cooney is finally fit, whooray we cry. With a fit body let’s hope the footy world can see what this kid has to offer. With a B.O.G performance in rd 1 behind him expect the tagger’s to start paying him a bit more attention. Having a fit and firing Akermanis and Griffen gives the Dogs a bit more drive through the middle of the ground which was lacking in the 2nd half of 07.

Defence - With the loss of Williams and Everitt the Bulldog backline continues to be a problem, but these 2 have hardly established themselves as AFL players anyway so not too much can be expected of them. The backline had the same problems last week as it has for the last 5-10 years, in 1 on 1 contests the Bulldogs defenders can’t beat there opponents. Lake and Wight were obviously underdone, but they would certainly hope to have a greater impact on the game this week.

Melbourne – Whatever the coaching staff have been working on at Melbourne for the past 6 months it didn’t work on Sunday. Some of the stats to come out of that game were damning. They broke-even in the clearances 34-34, but only averaged a goal every 53rd disposal. Compare this to the Bulldogs who averaged a goal every 21st disposal.

Forwards - Without Sylvia and Bate on the weekend they had no lead up half forwards. Having them in the team is a must. Robertson & Davey had shocker’s, but they are both very good player’s so can be forgived for one bad week. The rest of the forwards struggle big time, Neitz is finished, Newton is yet to cement his spot and if Holland plays forward he is hit and miss (generally a hit against us though)

Backline - Melbourne’s backline is a shambles. Carroll?? If you are going have a hair-cut like that you must be able to back it up on the field, sadly he doesn’t, Miller, no thanks. Bell is an honest toiler, but only just. They struggle with run from defence relying on Wheatley and perhaps Green (cat) to run and distribute the ball.

Midfield -Their midfield is a strength, but they should have hammered a Hawthorn outfit without Lewis, Crawford and Hodge in their team, well at least through the middle anyway. For me the Melbourne midfielders are a bunch of front-runners, give them a foot and they will take a metre, but keep a tight check on them and they go into there shells. Bruce, Green, Moloney and a few others are talented players, but they seem to pick and choose when they want to perform and when they want to chase.

I do have big wraps on Jones and McLean who would look good with a bit of white splashed on there jumpers, we’ll discuss that another time.

Key Match-Ups:

Brad Johnson vs Cameron Bruce?? – Although Bruce has spent a fair bit of time in the midfield he is one of the few players in the competition who has consistently had the better of Johnson. With Bruce struggling for fitness a stopping job might be the order of the day.

Adam Cooney vs James McDonald – In McDonald’s 200th expect him to try and put the clamps on Cooney. If Cooney can break free it will go along way to deciding the result of this match.

Dale Morris vs Russell Robertson – Robertson was horrible against Hawthorn and is too good a player to put in another one, or is he?? Perhaps his singing career is more important to him now?

Matthew Boyd vs Brock McLean – Brock can be the spark, but we need to cut down his drive through the middle of the ground. (Pardon the pun)

Ben Hudson vs Jeff White – White normally kills the Dogs with his leap and mobility around the ground. Hudson was good last week and will come in handy using his ball winning abilities against a strong Melbourne midfield.

Player’s under the pump:

Western Bulldogs

Daniel Cross – Spent most of the game on the wing where he is a duck out of water in open play. Can’t run, can’t kick, get’s the ball and stops. I know it’s early in the season and the players around will slow, but Daniel needs to get himself back into the centre square to where he can use his ball winning abilities to the advantage of the team.

Mitch Hahn – Has the game past him by? Is the bash and crash strategy he used to great effect in 05 and early 06 out-dated. He needs more strings to his bow than to just knock blokes over.

Ryan Hargrave – Has his time as a defender come to an end? Perhaps he might be the man for the wing spot presently being used by Cross. He can run, mark and is a very good kick, but continues to struggle in defence.

Melbourne

The whole bloody team!!!

Seriously the tripe they served up in round 1 was Richmond like. It will be a long year for the Melbourne faithful (do they have any??) if they continue to deliver performances like that.

New coach Dean Bailey would be looking for a big lift from his senior players (Neitz, Davey, White, Robertson, Yze) who performed below par last week. All these players generally perform well against the Bulldogs so let’s hope there poor form continues for at least one more week.

Who will win and why:

Are Melbourne really that bad? They only won 5 games last year which included wins in rd 19 (W.Bulldogs) & 2 wins against Carlton in rd 14 & 22 (tanking match). They might just be.

Melbourne will be flogged by the media all week and they probably deserve it, but expect them to have a serious crack this week. They have James McDonald who is a well respected player playing in his 200th game and deserves an improved performance, but seriously are they good enough to challenge a re-invigorated Bulldogs team?

Match Melbourne’s intensity and a comfortable victory is attainable, but if the Bulldogs go into the game without the intensity required to play an AFL game (half arsed) then the Bulldogs might be on the end of a disappointing loss.

You would hope that the players learnt there lesson last year when the desire to put in a consistent effort wasn’t there, was that fitness, was that internal unrest, who knows, but one thing to take from rd 1 was the determination to have a crack at all times which wasn’t always on show in the 2nd half of 07. If the Bulldogs apply pressure to the ball carrier and work hard on both there hard ball and loose ball possessions then the pace and skill of the Bulldogs players might be a bit much for the Dee’s to handle.

Bulldogs by 38pts...Well let's hope so

[LostDoggy]

Bugger you Mantis. I thought I would log on for 5 minutes but have just spent 10 minutes reading and re-reading your thread and its one of the best piece of analysis I have had the pleasure of reading here on WOOF.

There is not much I can add but thank you all the same.

[Dry Rot]

We hope that we'll be able to get someone each week to do as good as a job as Mantis.

Great effort - thanks for taking up the challenge.

I didn't know that Holland got Brownlow votes in that game - what a disgrace.

Is Cross just rusty or there's a problem with his role this year?

Will White exploit Hudson around the ground? (Hudson isn't that mobile)

I have an uneasy feeling about this game - we must have our minds on the job against what must be a pumped up Demons side.

[BulldogBelle]

Mantis, excellent analysis - great reading and well done. Definitely well thought out and written up.

[ledge]

Heres a good question, Bailey after having a pre season to get his club up and running has made an absolute shambles, dont the players perform 100 % for a new coach at start of year? Could Bailey be the quickest contracted coach to be sacked? Or as i heard the other day from Demetriou they are 2.7 mil in the red. And is he the only one they could afford so he wont be sacked?

[Twodogs]

In
Bulldogs by 38pts...Well let's hope so


I dunno. Regardless of exposed form they've really bothered us in the last few years. Their style under Daniher was always dangerous for us. They often seemed to be able to kick multiple goals without any hint that we had an answer to them.


I think the biggest unknown for Eade, and coaches hate unknowns, is what Dean Bailey's trying to do with Melbourne and what sort of coach he might be. No-one learnt anything about that on the weekend and their big thumping will be a problem for the Rocket's preperations/tactical planning for this week.



Although only one team has lost in the first round by 100+ weeks and followed with a win in round 2 I'm a bit worried about this week but I still expect to win. Let's say 10 points with the sealer not long before full time.

[Twodogs]

0
Players missing/ At the selection table:

Western Bulldogs – An ankle injury puts Eagleton in doubt and would join Ray, Williams and Everitt and possibly Harbrow as members of best 22 on the sidelines. Harbrow could be an inclusion for Eagleton, but has had only had 1 practice match after a 4 week lay off due to shin splints. This may be the only change although there may be a need to bring in an extra tall defender to cope with Newton, Neitz and Holland, well may be anyway??


I'm struggling to think of a good replacement for Eagle if Harbrow isnt right to go. He might be a big loss-not many in the team can run, carry and kick like Eagle and he kicks goals.

BTW I dont believe the report about it being an ankle. If that wasnt a knee injury (and maybe a 'big' one at that) then I give up watching footy.




Defence - With the loss of Williams and Everitt the Bulldog backline continues to be a problem, but these 2 have hardly established themselves as AFL players anyway so not too much can be expected of them. The backline had the same problems last week as it has for the last 5-10 years, in 1 on 1 contests the Bulldogs defenders can’t beat there opponents. Lake and Wight were obviously underdone, but they would certainly hope to have a greater impact on the game this week.


We'd have Lake and Wight so unless we expect Shaggy to cope with a player twice his size(again!) then the logical call up would be McDougall. McDougall and Wight may be a good combo because they can swap between CHF and CHB. If we dont bring in a third tall then Shaggy's logical match up would be Holland because he would run him off his feet and' like Holland' Shaggy is strong in the contest when the ball hits the ground. I'm assuming that Lake will take Neitz and Wight's lack of experience makes him a natural opponent for Newton. He might even spend some time at training this week learning how/where/when to punch the ball in a marking contest.


Tiller might also be an option depending on whether his bout of food poisining hasnt left him too week. He spent a fair chunk of the preseason matchplay in defence, as did Welsh.



Midfield - The midfield has acquired a much needed ruckman of AFL standard who is both strong in the contest in the air and on the ground. Hudson works well around the ground and gives an option which probably hasn’t been there for the past 3 or 4 years. Cooney is finally fit, whooray we cry. With a fit body let’s hope the footy world can see what this kid has to offer. With a B.O.G performance in rd 1 behind him expect the tagger’s to start paying him a bit more attention. Having a fit and firing Akermanis and Griffen gives the Dogs a bit more drive through the middle of the ground which was lacking in the 2nd half of 07.


Their mids cant have another week like last week but I'm now confident we have the correct ruckman to make our midfield better than their's. Hudson's influence in his battle with White will ge a long to deciding the game. Cooney and Aka have been white hot since January, Eagleton will be a big loss and Cross and West will be keener than normal to make sure that this weeks performance is better than last weeks was.



Forwards- The forward-line structure had changed a fair bit. Welsh and Minson give the team another leading player from the square who is a strong mark and an excellent converter and a big gorilla who gives the team the option of the long bomb to the top of square, which hasn’t been there in the past. The talented small forwards in Johnson, Murphy and Giansiracusa will continue to cause the opposition headaches.


One of the things I was happiest about on the weekend was how the forward line performed. Instead of trying to invent new ways of kicking goals we went with a more 'traditional' struture and I think it worked well. Rather than do a player by player analysis I'm just going to say that a few teams will have their own problems matching up on us and this will work well for us in the short term. Melbourne will be no exception.

[hujsh]

Key Match-Ups:

Brad Johnson vs Cameron Bruce?? – Although Bruce has spent a fair bit of time in the midfield he is one of the few players in the competition who has consistently had the better of Johnson. With Bruce struggling for fitness a stopping job might be the order of the day.

Bruce is one of the players who you feel can stop Johnson although if he is struggling for fitness then i doubt he should play on Johnson and in fact i would hope he does. Although many here don't rate Johnno's defensive pressure he does cover allot of ground (according to the stats I've seen) so should Bruce pick up Johnno i would look for him to pick up many possessions up the ground

[Twodogs]

Melbourne: - Colin Sylvia will be welcomed back after serving his 1 match club enforced suspension. Matthew Bate is also a chance of returning from a hamstring injury, but what they do with the team is anyone’s guess. Lynden Dunn, Matthew Whelan and Jared Rivers would also be close to selection.

I think Bailey may keep the faith with the player’s under the pump in the press, but another performance like rd 1 might mean a massive change in direction, but who knows the new coach may want to make a statement, guess we will find out later in the week.



Yeah me too. Last week was as bad as it could have been for the D's and I think that Bailey will want to find out what the 22 he thinks is the best 22 is capable of. I cant really think who could return to the side to make it a better 22 even if he wanted to make changes.



style of play/ team structure’s:

Western Bulldogs – The Bulldogs play a dangerous game, almost a shoot-out style. They back themselves to purely kick more goals than the opposition. Teams who deny the ball carrier time and the leading player’s space to lead tend to have a good record against the Dogs.




From watching preseason training and from sunday's performance I think we are going to sacrifice the shoot outs with a more balanced and careful build up across half back waiting for a target to appear rather than just try and hit teams on the rebound after an error. If we get into trouble then the plan will be bomb it long to Minson, other wise we wait until Murphy/Johnno/Welsh are leading or have lost their opponents.



So what was different last week to last year?




The players spent most of the preseason working on a more-I hesitate to say accountable-physical gamestyle. We didnt go all out on skills as we had in the previous three preseasons under Eade. The players worked hard on tackling techniques, bumping and taking the ball under pressure/contested situations.

[BulldogBelle]

Congratulations Mantis, that was a good read and I enjoyed it immensely.

I was impressed with your insights into Hahn. "Has the game past him by?", interesting thought, as players now-a-days are required to have height agility and speed. Above all - speed.

Your analysis on Cross and Hargrave are right.

Please try to use the word "their" instead of "there" where applicable. This detracts from your otherwise excellent essay. I'm not the spelling police. Its just that it was such a good read that its a pity that these words were incorrectly used.

[wimberga]

If Eagleton goes out and Harbrow is ready to come in, I think Mcdougall may come in, take shaggy's spot and push shags to the wing

Shaggy is actually a good asset on the wing i believe.

[Mantis]

From watching preseason training and from sunday's performance I think we are going to sacrifice the shoot outs with a more balanced and careful build up across half back waiting for a target to appear rather than just try and hit teams on the rebound after an error. If we get into trouble then the plan will be bomb it long to Minson, other wise we wait until Murphy/Johnno/Welsh are leading or have lost their opponents.



Agree on that point. The point I was trying to make was that if the opposition kick 21 goals we aim to kick 22, etc.. We aren't the sort of team that will play like St.Kilda or Sydney did the other night. ie. close the game down and play boring footy.

We did look more measured in our approach, but the attacking instincts were still evident.

[Bulldog Revolution]

If Eagleton goes out and Harbrow is ready to come in, I think Mcdougall may come in, take shaggy's spot and push shags to the wing

Shaggy is actually a good asset on the wing i believe.

Thats a good option if Eagle does not come up.

I thing we would be crazy to add another underdone player to the mix and would be better off going with a fit first year player than someone who is too far behind in terms of having done the work.

Given its James MacDonalds 200th game for the Dees - that should provide a good focus for their resurrection efforts this weekend - I think they will be bounce back strong and I'll be happy to win by any margin

[GVGjr]

Players missing/ At the selection table:

Western Bulldogs – An ankle injury puts Eagleton in doubt and would join Ray, Williams and Everitt and possibly Harbrow as members of best 22 on the sidelines. Harbrow could be an inclusion for Eagleton, but has had only had 1 practice match after a 4 week lay off due to shin splints. This may be the only change although there may be a need to bring in an extra tall defender to cope with Newton, Neitz and Holland, well may be anyway??

Melbourne: - Colin Sylvia will be welcomed back after serving his 1 match club enforced suspension. Matthew Bate is also a chance of returning from a hamstring injury, but what they do with the team is anyone’s guess. Lynden Dunn, Matthew Whelan and Jared Rivers would also be close to selection.

I think Bailey may keep the faith with the player’s under the pump in the press, but another performance like rd 1 might mean a massive change in direction, but who knows the new coach may want to make a statement, guess we will find out later in the week.



I think we can cover any injuries or form concerns because we have Callan, Stack and Harbrow for the smalls and McDougall to cover the defence. The real test will be getting the right match-ups.

Sylvia returning with plenty to prove will be a difficult match-up.



Players missing/ At the selection table:

Style of play/ team structure’s:

Western Bulldogs – The Bulldogs play a dangerous game, almost a shoot-out style. They back themselves to purely kick more goals than the opposition. Teams who deny the ball carrier time and the leading player’s space to lead tend to have a good record against the Dogs.

So what was different last week to last year?

Forwards- The forward-line structure had changed a fair bit. Welsh and Minson give the team another leading player from the square who is a strong mark and an excellent converter and a big gorilla who gives the team the option of the long bomb to the top of square, which hasn’t been there in the past. The talented small forwards in Johnson, Murphy and Giansiracusa will continue to cause the opposition headaches.

Midfield - The midfield has acquired a much needed ruckman of AFL standard who is both strong in the contest in the air and on the ground. Hudson works well around the ground and gives an option which probably hasn’t been there for the past 3 or 4 years. Cooney is finally fit, whooray we cry. With a fit body let’s hope the footy world can see what this kid has to offer. With a B.O.G performance in rd 1 behind him expect the tagger’s to start paying him a bit more attention. Having a fit and firing Akermanis and Griffen gives the Dogs a bit more drive through the middle of the ground which was lacking in the 2nd half of 07.



Our forward line has improved no doubt and providing it can keep the scoreboard ticking over we should be OK.
Melbournes forward line concerns me. Sylvia is a unique match-up because he is almost a poor mans Brad Johnson given he can play taller than his listed height.
Neitz has always worried us and we will need Lake to play better than the previous week to work off him.
Robertson can kick goals in a hurry and Davey is always dangerous. On top of that Bate is another that we have no logical match-up for.

Hargrave on Roberston is a possibility, Morris on Davey, Lake on Neitz, Wight on a tall so I suppose that leaves Griffen for Bate and Gilbee for Sylvia. I could see Sylvia being pushed deep into the forward line to cut Gilbee's run and potentially beat him in the air.

Does this open opportunities for Callan and/or Harbrow in some defensive roles?



I do have big wraps on Jones and McLean who would look good with a bit of white splashed on there jumpers, we’ll discuss that another time.


Both are good hard nosed midfielders. They may not be pretty in the way that they play but they are effective.



Player’s under the pump:

Western Bulldogs

Daniel Cross – Spent most of the game on the wing where he is a duck out of water in open play. Can’t run, can’t kick, get’s the ball and stops. I know it’s early in the season and the players around will slow, but Daniel needs to get himself back into the centre square to where he can use his ball winning abilities to the advantage of the team.

Mitch Hahn – Has the game past him by? Is the bash and crash strategy he used to great effect in 05 and early 06 out-dated. He needs more strings to his bow than to just knock blokes over.

Ryan Hargrave – Has his time as a defender come to an end? Perhaps he might be the man for the wing spot presently being used by Cross. He can run, mark and is a very good kick, but continues to struggle in defence.

Melbourne

The whole bloody team!!!



Agree that the Bulldog players need to lift. None of them were that good last week in my opinion.




Who will win and why:

Are Melbourne really that bad? They only won 5 games last year which included wins in rd 19 (W.Bulldogs) & 2 wins against Carlton in rd 14 & 22 (tanking match). They might just be.

Melbourne will be flogged by the media all week and they probably deserve it, but expect them to have a serious crack this week. They have James McDonald who is a well respected player playing in his 200th game and deserves an improved performance, but seriously are they good enough to challenge a re-invigorated Bulldogs team?

Match Melbourne’s intensity and a comfortable victory is attainable, but if the Bulldogs go into the game without the intensity required to play an AFL game (half arsed) then the Bulldogs might be on the end of a disappointing loss.

You would hope that the players learnt there lesson last year when the desire to put in a consistent effort wasn’t there, was that fitness, was that internal unrest, who knows, but one thing to take from rd 1 was the determination to have a crack at all times which wasn’t always on show in the 2nd half of 07. If the Bulldogs apply pressure to the ball carrier and work hard on both there hard ball and loose ball possessions then the pace and skill of the Bulldogs players might be a bit much for the Dee’s to handle.

Bulldogs by 38pts...Well let's hope so

I think it will seesaw back and forth for a while before we get the 4 points.
A Bulldog win by 18 is my expectation. I am wary of the wounded pride of a club especially given that the Demons have traditionally played well against us.

Our midfield is the key. If we can control that we should be right.

[mjp]

From watching preseason training and from sunday's performance I think we are going to sacrifice the shoot outs with a more balanced and careful build up across half back waiting for a target to appear rather than just try and hit teams on the rebound after an error. If we get into trouble then the plan will be bomb it long to Minson, other wise we wait until Murphy/Johnno/Welsh are leading or have lost their opponents.


Maybe so...but Sunday vs Adelaide was still a shoot-out.

As an aside, Adelaide will beat Melbourne by 100 points if they played them in Adelaide this week. We need to put them to the sword in a similar way - a good start will lead to a lot of 'Here we go again' head dropping in the Melbourne group (last year, last week) and we should win by 10 goals.

And yes, Jones is a decent player, but his hit and hope disposal is not doing his team any favors.

[Go_Dogs]

Terrific post Mantis - well thought out and covered a lot of the key areas.

For mine, we really do need to back up and get a solid win here. Wins at the start of the season - particularly percentage boosting ones are crucial if we want to play in September and we can really set our season up over the first 4 weeks.

Melbourne are a side, who regardless of ladder position always seem to match up really well on us. They have some exciting small forwards, an underrated midfield group and a fairly average backline. We need to be mindful of them getting their run on and having space to move in, as players like Davey, McLean, Jones, Sylvia and Bate will all kill us if they have the time and space they need to move freely. I get the feeling Melbourne will be very keen to atone for last weeks shocker and will really look to clamp down our running style and force us to work harder for each possession and goal. If they go the other way and try to have a shootout with us, we'll crush them. Their best bet is to play contested football, create lots of stoppages and hope their strength around the stoppages can get the ball moving forward into some open space.

I'd like to see Boyd go to McLean, as Mantis mentioned. I'd like to have Westy sit on Jones a bit, make him accountable around the packs and around the ground as Scotty will keep working hard to make himself an option and I don't think Jones has quite the fitness and mental discipline to really stick with him at this stage.

McDonald will get blown out of the water by Cooney if we do the team things. McDonald is a slow, 31 y.o - if Adam can get half a step clear of him, it's all over. We need some good blocking applied in the midfield to allow Adam first run (and clear run) at the ball.


Daniel Cross – Spent most of the game on the wing where he is a duck out of water in open play. Can’t run, can’t kick, get’s the ball and stops. I know it’s early in the season and the players around will slow, but Daniel needs to get himself back into the centre square to where he can use his ball winning abilities to the advantage of the team.

I'm going to have to disagree with this point. For mine, our best midfield group contains one of West/Boyd/Cross in the square, with Cooney and then one of Akermanis/Griffen/Higgins/Eagleton etc. Cross is not going to be a given starter in the centre square at every bounce, and he shouldn't be either as at the moment I think we have a few other options who can read and clear the ball just as well, but also have the acceleration and more reliable disposal and penetration by foot. Crossy just needs to re-invent himself a little bit. He needs to be more confident to take the first option whether its by foot or hand. He needs to work very hard on his defensive aspects and really shut down his direct opponent and limit his influence and if he's struggling for touch, he should start dropping back into the D50 where his marking and attack on the contest will be useful. He'll still play roles in the centre square obviously at some stage, but he is no longer a given to play 85% of the game there.


As far as the replacement for Eagleton, I guess the big question is what do we need - for mine, we need another runner as Eagleton's early run was crucial to getting us up in the first Qtr. That means the options are possibly - Harbrow, Callan, Stack, O'Keefe and Ward. O'Keefe and Ward are probably a little behind the 8 ball as they haven't had a full pre-season, but both have shown a lot thus far that they could come in and play a role. If Harbrow is fit, he has to get the nod, whilst someone like Callan could come in and take a defensive stopper role and really help free up someone like Hargrave or Griffen to go further upfield for longer durations.

Murphy could be a vital swingman too - if we're looking in trouble down back and could potentially be a decent match up for someone like Robertson imo.

The other bloke that I would have a question mark over is Addison - his attack on the ball is good, but for mine he just didn't do enough last weekend. I think we have to persist with him at this stage, as there aren't too many other options that I think offer us a lot more, but he really needs a good day out.

[wimberga]

Great thread mantis, we all here appreciate your otstanding effort.

Who norally plays on Davey? he can be so dangerous, as can Robertson. for mind, Morris should take robertson and shaggy (if not moved to the wing, which would be a good move anyway) take Davey.

That said,the stats read that melboure drew hawthorn 32-32 for centre clearances. not always hte most indicative stat obviously, but seems like either the hawks, whose defence is not great, played excellent, or hawks midfield pressured excellent. Im guessing a combination. Yes Dees will get a few midfielders back, but if Big Will, Huddo, Cooney, Cross, Aker, Griff etc can all keep things tight and win a majoriy of the clearances it will og along way towards a domineering win.

Im not too worried about he matchups in our forward line as i dont think ti will deviate much from Johnno, Gia, Minson, Welsh, Hill, Higgins/aker.

[bulldogtragic]

Great thread Mantis.

As for match-ups i'll throw up with Eagle out possibly Stack to come in and both he and Josh Hill have a run with Davey. Whilst i don't think its absolute that we will win, i think we can afford to blood our young aboroiginal boys to the big time players and playing on someone like Davey could show them where their defensive game is and what they have to do to have an attacking game like his - And they have the speed to go with him. It also keeps us quick on the ground and when Josh Hill was killing it last week McLeod went back on him, so it can also be an attacking option. I think it's a good opportunity for both boys and a good balance for the team, i think we have enough height has Mantis has shown.

Again, great thread. This is WOOF is by far the best.

[soupman]

That said,the stats read that melboure drew hawthorn 32-32 for centre clearances. not always hte most indicative stat obviously, but seems like either the hawks, whose defence is not great, played excellent, or hawks midfield pressured excellent. Im guessing a combination. Yes Dees will get a few midfielders back, but if Big Will, Huddo, Cooney, Cross, Aker, Griff etc can all keep things tight and win a majoriy of the clearances it will og along way towards a domineering win.

This worries me. This means either Melbourne have a shocking forward set-up or like you said Hawthorn played really well in defence or pressured them really well out of the midfield.

Regarding Bruce on Johnno if Bruce is underdone we should play Johnno further up the ground for the first 2-3 quarters to tire Bruce out before swinging Johnno up forward.

[Mantis]

I'm going to have to disagree with this point. For mine, our best midfield group contains one of West/Boyd/Cross in the square, with Cooney and then one of Akermanis/Griffen/Higgins/Eagleton etc. Cross is not going to be a given starter in the centre square at every bounce, and he shouldn't be either as at the moment I think we have a few other options who can read and clear the ball just as well, but also have the acceleration and more reliable disposal and penetration by foot. Crossy just needs to re-invent himself a little bit. He needs to be more confident to take the first option whether its by foot or hand. He needs to work very hard on his defensive aspects and really shut down his direct opponent and limit his influence and if he's struggling for touch, he should start dropping back into the D50 where his marking and attack on the contest will be useful. He'll still play roles in the centre square obviously at some stage, but he is no longer a given to play 85% of the game there.




Ok, then perhaps I was a tad harsh on Cross, I really do like him as a player, but his 2nd qtr in particular on Sunday was mistake ridden and one of the reasons why we let Adelaide back in the game..

I have watched Cross at training and he is a pretty good kick to position, but come game day he freezes up and has no confidence in his ability to deliver the ball by foot. In open play it is worse as he stops our flow and allows the opposition to apply more pressure up the field.

I am of the belief, especially at this time of the year that we can only have one of West or Cross on the ground at any given time. This time is to spent in the centre, doing what they do best which is feeding the ball out to our runners and applying offensive and defensive pressure at the clearances. Neither are suited to playing in other positions around the ground due to there limitations.

I suppose I have gotten off the original topic, but I feel it needs to be covered.

[Go_Dogs]

Ok, then perhaps I was a tad harsh on Cross, I really do like him as a player, but his 2nd qtr in particular on Sunday was mistake ridden and one of the reasons why we let Adelaide back in the game..

I have watched Cross at training and he is a pretty good kick to position, but come game day he freezes up and has no confidence in his ability to deliver the ball by foot. In open play it is worse as he stops our flow and allows the opposition to apply more pressure up the field.

I am of the belief, especially at this time of the year that we can only have one of West or Cross on the ground at any given time. This time is to spent in the centre, doing what they do best which is feeding the ball out to our runners and applying offensive and defensive pressure at the clearances. Neither are suited to playing in other positions around the ground due to there limitations.

I suppose I have gotten off the original topic, but I feel it needs to be covered.

Yes, his 2nd qtr was quite disappointing, but he was not alone. 90% of our players made simple errors by hand or foot during this period, Cross should be held to a higher standard though and as such needs to be held liable for his mistakes.


As far as only one of West/Cross being on the field at a given time, in theory it sounds ok, but I just don't think we have - at this stage - enough hard bodies that work hard both ways, and as such, we need both on the ground for the majority of the game.

The other point I think is important is, that besides the centre bounce, every other stoppage can be attended by any other player, and as such Cross and West can follow the ball in these instances and get involved in the stoppages around the ground. When these stoppages occur there is often 12-14 players crowding around, and they'll both be needed in these situations.

My point about him not playing the centre square as much was basically for the reason that I think we are more effective and quicker with our ball movement with only one of those types of players in our combination for the centre clearance. FWIW, Hudson also offers the ability to pretty much play the role that West and Cross do in the middle on the bottom of packs, and he too can help that aspect.

Off the wing, he can use his hard running, link up skills and marking to advantage and can still play a big role in the stoppages around the ground and be mindful of an opposition key player too.

[hujsh]

I'm stating to like West's kicks. While can can't give the ball a roost from outside 50 he has a neat kick and can hit a target in the forward 50 (all based on Sundays game)

[LostDoggy]

The thing that worried me alot last week was seeing the crows bring it in along the wing and flanks only to see them square it up to the corridor 40 - 45 out to see 2 - 4 receivers waiting unattended. This happened on a few occasions did anyone else notice this? We can't afford to do that week in week out.

[Raw Toast]

Thanks for the detailed preview Mantis.

I think the question of who we play on Davey is another key match-up. He slaughtered us in both games last year, the first playing as an attacking defender, the second his more usual role up forward. We can play Morris on him but we might need him to take one of their talls.

The Dees have also shown a liking for taking us on in shoot-out situations, so I'd like Eade to have us really trying to shut them down. If we can pressure them like it sounds we did Adelaide for 3 quarters or so, then a size-able win is in the offing. If we let them get their tails up early then it's going to be more of a struggle.

Sylvia ran amok on an underdone Griffen in our first meeting last year and almost won the game for them. Be interesting to see if we give Griff a chance to make amends. I'd also like to know how Hudson generally goes against Jeff White. We don't have anyone who can match him around the ground, though perhaps our Wight could run with him with Hudson dropping back a kick behind play as he did last week. Jeff White's fairly short for a ruckman these days, so I reckon the match-committee might be tempted to bring in Street who should just be able to out-reach him. I hope they don't though, as I think we're much better balanced without Street in the team and Minson certainly did at least ok in his ruck stints.

Feels like a pretty significant game in the context of the season despite the fact that it's only round 2. We've got a chance to get some early momentum and to really build some confidence.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Well done Mantis, one of the best posts on WOOF.

I had to laugh and agree with your comment about Carroll. What a silly haircut - if he's going to sport something that stupid, he'd at least want to be a quality player ... but he isn't. Plays a few good games a year, but really, he's an average player.

I agree with basically everything you've said. Cooney & Griffen are the big ones here. If both can break free & run the lines, we should win the game. It's important for Coons to back up last week, he's had difficulties with backing up BOG's but now that he's fully fit, it's something we should begin to expect from him. He's a great player, a guy that could easily push himself as an elite midfielder of the competition. Griffen's run & carry will be pivotal too. Melbourne are a youngish and one paced side, so his game breaking ability is important.

Another week under the belt of Gilbee will hold him in goos stead. He was a bit shakey in periods last week, but I expect Gilbee to be back to his best. His pin point passing is a feature and if he can do this, we'll be much better placed to pick up the win. Harris will be thankful for getting through last week too, battled hard which is a credit to him.

Our pace & intensity are the two keys. IMO we should smash The Dees for pace all over the ground, they've got a dodgy backline and realistically, Johnson/Welsh/Minson/Murphy/Aker/Higgins/Gia should cause huge problems. In defence I'd expect Gilbee/Hargrave/Griffen to burn their opponents on the rebound too. This is an area Rocket will probably look to exploit because although The Dees gave a few talls in Neitz, Holland & Newton, they aren't particularly damaging. Harris should be able to easily cover Neitz who IMO will struggle this year. Hargrave will probably get Newton, and on the rebound, really should murder Newton. Newton's not bad in the air but is very slow to get back up after a contest and I question his defensive efforts. Hargrave or Gilbee should make life hell for him. Holland will probably get Wight and Robertson Morris.

Moloney, Bruce, Green, McLean & Green are quality players who can be very damaging through the midfield, but they're pretty one paced. Green has a bit of toe but he can fault under pressure. The rest would struggle to keep up with the likes of Cooney & Griffen, an area we should really look to exploit. Hudson will be important at ground level & stoppages, an area Melbourne are pretty good at.

Anything less than a 6 goal win would be disappointing in my books. In order to take the next step as a quality football side, we desperately need to account for sides that we should beat - and not simply by a few goals. The Dees will be hard early but we have far too much talent up forward and pace through the midfield, so as long as The Dogs intensity is up (which they've identified a fair bit, referring to last years Rd 2/3 defeats after Rd1) then we should come away with a good victory. This game's important for mine; if they've learnt & matured from last year, we'll see a 6+ goal win. If we stumble over the line like we have for a number of years against ordinary sides, then not a lot's changed.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Thanks for the detailed preview Mantis.

I think the question of who we play on Davey is another key match-up. He slaughtered us in both games last year, the first playing as an attacking defender, the second his more usual role up forward. We can play Morris on him but we might need him to take one of their talls.

Ah yes, forgot to include this in my post above.

Davey is a dangerous player and generally plays pretty well against us. He's one of few Melbourne players to have genuine pace - explosive pace for that matter. He can play all over the ground but I'd expect him to have stints in the midfield and play as a crumber around Neitz/Holland/Newton. Morris as you said RT is an option, although I can recall Morris getting a little lost last time he played on him. Either way, Davey is a player we need to keep quiet.

Sylvia will be looking to atone for poor behaviour and he can be a quality player, although a little hit and miss. Great pair of hands and runs hard, proved to almost be the match winner in one of our games last year. Somebody to keep in check, and again Morris is a good option. It depends how Robertson is playing though, because Morris would likely go to him first. Hargrave probably gets Sylvia first up, he'll need to do a good job.

The positive thing throughout the week so far is that all supporters and more importantly, all Dogs players/officials have identified this week as a crucial game for improving as a football side. Big opportunity to gain confidence, membership & belief that they're improving on not only '07, but '06 too because as I said, we've had a bad habit of bringing ordinary sides into the game and often dropping them. To be a good football side, we've got to beat them - and beat them well.

[Mantis]

Davey is a dangerous player and generally plays pretty well against us. He's one of few Melbourne players to have genuine pace - explosive pace for that matter. He can play all over the ground but I'd expect him to have stints in the midfield and play as a crumber around Neitz/Holland/Newton. Morris as you said RT is an option, although I can recall Morris getting a little lost last time he played on him. Either way, Davey is a player we need to keep quiet.

Who get's Davey then? Possibly Addison?

I agree that Morris needs to pick up a taller player probably someone like Robertson.


Sylvia will be looking to atone for poor behaviour and he can be a quality player, although a little hit and miss. Great pair of hands and runs hard, proved to almost be the match winner in one of our games last year. Somebody to keep in check, and again Morris is a good option. It depends how Robertson is playing though, because Morris would likely go to him first. Hargrave probably gets Sylvia first up, he'll need to do a good job.



Agree Hargrave will get first go, but we don't have a lot of depth in the back half. Could Griffen get the job again, may hurt him going the other way?

[The Underdog]

Is anyone else concerned that it's likely to be wet and supposedly windy?
We really aren't built for those sort of conditions and Melbourne's midfield strength is well, their strength. It will eliminate our pace somewhat, we also have a pretty ordinary record in wet weather in the last few years (I'm sure somone will come up with some stat to refute that but it's my recollection that we've been beaten up in those sort of games on the most part).

[westdog54]

Who get's Davey then? Possibly Addison?

I agree that Morris needs to pick up a taller player probably someone like Robertson.



Agree Hargrave will get first go, but we don't have a lot of depth in the back half. Could Griffen get the job again, may hurt him going the other way?

If Addison goes to Davey he will be left for dead.

Griffen has the speed to go with him and the skill to hurt him going the other way.

[LostDoggy]

Not worried about the wet we seemed to be get in and under alot more in previous years and alot more physcal on an the field. iIf we keep that up and get first hands on the ball it is always going to be hard for the other team to get ahead.

[1eyedog]

If Addison goes to Davey he will be left for dead.

Griffen has the speed to go with him and the skill to hurt him going the other way.

Davey would leave scorch marks on Griff's thighs, he does not have enough pace to follow Davey. Put Josh Hill on Davey and see how he goes. Indigenous players always have mutual respect for one another and mentally there are things that they think they can't get away with i.e they tend to play more conservatively on each other for a while. It's worth a try. Agree with Morris v Robertson, Lake v Neitz, Wight v Holland (need to bring in Doog here because Holland will go to him if Doog plays forward), and Hargrave on Sylvia (although I don't think this is a good match up). I too am worried about the slop, the D's have good in and under players and wet, windy conditions will negate our speed (and I believe) our skill superiority. I am really worried about this game if Moloney, Green, Bruce, Davey and Robbo paly at 70-80% we could be in trouble. I agree that to stamp ourselves on the competition this year we need to win this game by at least 6 goals. Getting over the line will instill absolutely no confidence in me.

[Mantis]

Davey would leave scorch marks on Griff's thighs, he does not have enough pace to follow Davey. Put Josh Hill on Davey and see how he goes. Indigenous players always have mutual respect for one another and mentally there are things that they think they can't get away with i.e they tend to play more conservatively on each other for a while. It's worth a try. Agree with Morris v Robertson, Lake v Neitz, Wight v Holland (need to bring in Doog here because Holland will go to him if Doog plays forward), and Hargrave on Sylvia (although I don't think this is a good match up). I too am worried about the slop, the D's have good in and under players and wet, windy conditions will negate our speed (and I believe) our skill superiority. I am really worried about this game if Moloney, Green, Bruce, Davey and Robbo paly at 70-80% we could be in trouble. I agree that to stamp ourselves on the competition this year we need to win this game by at least 6 goals. Getting over the line will instill absolutely no confidence in me.


Josh Hill is an attacking wingman/ Half forward. He is not an option in my mind to play on Davey.

You have missed out Newton in your match-ups. McDougall did a good job on him last year, but with the wet conditions expected the Dee's might only play 2 talls up forward.

[LostDoggy]

Great thread Mantis it was a pleasure to read

Has anyone considered it might be a wet day!

[1eyedog]

Great thread Mantis it was a pleasure to read

Has anyone considered it might be a wet day!

Yeah a few posts mine included. It is a concern to me may make the game a 50/50 where we lose skill and pace superiority.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Davey would leave scorch marks on Griff's thighs, he does not have enough pace to follow Davey. Put Josh Hill on Davey and see how he goes. Indigenous players always have mutual respect for one another and mentally there are things that they think they can't get away with i.e they tend to play more conservatively on each other for a while. It's worth a try. Agree with Morris v Robertson, Lake v Neitz, Wight v Holland (need to bring in Doog here because Holland will go to him if Doog plays forward), and Hargrave on Sylvia (although I don't think this is a good match up). I too am worried about the slop, the D's have good in and under players and wet, windy conditions will negate our speed (and I believe) our skill superiority. I am really worried about this game if Moloney, Green, Bruce, Davey and Robbo paly at 70-80% we could be in trouble. I agree that to stamp ourselves on the competition this year we need to win this game by at least 6 goals. Getting over the line will instill absolutely no confidence in me.

You should have mentioned that to Andrew McLeod on the weekend.

[Mantis]

You should have mentioned that to Andrew McLeod on the weekend.

Hill mentioned in a post match interview that he didn't know what to do when McLeod stood next to him for parts of the last qtr on Sunday. Hill mentioned that McLeod had been a hero of his growing up and was a bit awe-struck that he was actually playing on him.

[ledge]

Wet weather and Doogs im not to sure, i dont think we have a prob with wet weather, remember we have West, Griffen,Cross, Aker, Higgins, just to mention a few who are used to the bottom of the pack and hard work type. My question is Green,Nietz, Robertson and Bruce, of these players i believe some are good for high marks(not good in wet weather) and the others dont like it hard and like to look pretty.
But in mentioning that after last week those pretty players are going to have to get ugly this week whether it rains or not.

[hujsh]

We did just beat the Roos in the Pre-Season. Although it was just that, the pre-season. We are apparently stronger so we should be alright

[mjp]

Yeah a few posts mine included. It is a concern to me may make the game a 50/50 where we lose skill and pace superiority.

Skilfull players stand out MORE in the wet, not less.

[The Coon Dog]

Skilfull players stand out MORE in the wet, not less.

True, remember Aker against Geelong when still at Brisbane & those 2 goals from tight angles or Doug Hawkins at the Whitten Oval when it rained?

[hujsh]

True, remember Aker against Geelong when still at Brisbane & those 2 goals from tight angles or Doug Hawkins at the Whitten Oval when it rained?

I think the champion players are generally the ones who standout in the wet. Skillful outside receiver players can go missing.

[1eyedog]

Skilfull players stand out MORE in the wet, not less.


Champion players stand out more in the wet I agree, but skillful players? I don't think so. Over the years I've seen too many 'skillful' players fall by the wayside in the slop, from GFL under 19s to the AFL competition. Skillful and champion are mutually exclusive. We have a team of skillful players, not champion players (except West, Johnno and Aker).

[The Underdog]

I guess if it is wet and we have to put our bodies on the line then it'll be a further test of our physicality. My query on the possible wet weather is that in the past few years in most cases when we've been called on to play in the wet we've often failed to adapt our game. We've tried to play dry weather footy in wet conditions. We'll see if we have gotten smarter as well as harder. It used to be that these kind of days were made for us, now I'm not so sure.

[mjp]

Champion players stand out more in the wet I agree, but skillful players? I don't think so. Over the years I've seen too many 'skillful' players fall by the wayside in the slop, from GFL under 19s to the AFL competition. Skillful and champion are mutually exclusive. We have a team of skillful players, not champion players (except West, Johnno and Aker).

Let's start naming names then?

Guys I think of as outstanding wet-weather footballers (because of their skill level) include:

Peter Matera
Maurice Rioli
Chris Lewis
Robbie Flower
....you get the idea.

I guess what I am saying is that the idea people have that 'smash and bash, hard at it' (or whatever other cliche's you want to use) are well suited to wet weather is crap. Guys who can't kick, have even more trouble. Guys who can't mark, really, really, really cant mark. And players who aren't clean below the knees are basically useless.

As for 'Skillful and Champion' being mutually exclusive, you might be right from one perspective - that just because a player has good skills does not mean he is a champ, but if the reverse is true there are not too many examples I can think of! I think what you are really trying to say is that weak minded outside players - often kindly described as 'skillful' - are no good in the wet. I dont actually think we have too many of those either, and a couple who might eventually fit the category are way too young to be tarred by such a description...I would further say such players are no good wet OR dry.

As for your 'we have a team of skilfull players' line, I will dispute that as well. We actually have very few highly skilled players in our team at the moment - and some such as Addison and Hahn who are complete liabilities.

[hujsh]

As for your 'we have a team of skilfull players' line, I will dispute that as well. We actually have very few highly skilled players in our team at the moment - and some such as Addison and Hahn who are complete liabilities.

That probably comes from the 05/06 hype where some papers claimed we were the most skillful team in the comp

[1eyedog]

Let's start naming names then?

Guys I think of as outstanding wet-weather footballers (because of their skill level) include:

Peter Matera
Maurice Rioli
Chris Lewis
Robbie Flower
....you get the idea.

I guess what I am saying is that the idea people have that 'smash and bash, hard at it' (or whatever other cliche's you want to use) are well suited to wet weather is crap. Guys who can't kick, have even more trouble. Guys who can't mark, really, really, really cant mark. And players who aren't clean below the knees are basically useless.

As for 'Skillful and Champion' being mutually exclusive, you might be right from one perspective - that just because a player has good skills does not mean he is a champ, but if the reverse is true there are not too many examples I can think of! I think what you are really trying to say is that weak minded outside players - often kindly described as 'skillful' - are no good in the wet. I dont actually think we have too many of those either, and a couple who might eventually fit the category are way too young to be tarred by such a description...I would further say such players are no good wet OR dry.

As for your 'we have a team of skilfull players' line, I will dispute that as well. We actually have very few highly skilled players in our team at the moment - and some such as Addison and Hahn who are complete liabilities.

Champions who are not skillful (I can think of some)

Tony Liberatore (Brownlow medal)
Warwick Capper (Coleman medal)
Tony Shaw (Collingwood Capt, Premiership Coach)
I could continue.....

I was not trying to say mentally weak either. I meant what I said, skillful players can be weak in the wet, i.e they require dry conditions to attain optimal ball control etc... Also I believe we have many skillful players, that is why we were so successful at the end of 2006 before other teams caught onto our game plan. We played a game of precision kicking and running within very tight spatial confines, requiring great skill.

[LostDoggy]

History says a team that gets flogged by over 100 points, come back and win the following week...

LETS MAKE HISTORY!!!

[Sockeye Salmon]

Champions who are not skillful (I can think of some)

Tony Liberatore (Brownlow medal)
Warwick Capper (Norm Smith medal)
Tony Shaw (Collingwood Captain and Legend)
I could continue.....

I was not trying to say mentally weak either. I meant what I said, skillful players can be weak in the wet, i.e they require dry conditions to attain optimal ball control etc... Also I believe we have many skillful players, that is why we were so successful at the end of 2006 before other teams caught onto our game plan. We played a game of precision kicking and running within very tight spatial confines, requiring great skill.

I agree with mjp.

It takes more skill to handle and dispose of the ball cleanly and accurately in the wet. The more skillful players have more chance of doing that than those lesser skilled players.

Hawkins owned the wet.

[Mantis]

I guess if it is wet and we have to put our bodies on the line then it'll be a further test of our physicality. My query on the possible wet weather is that in the past few years in most cases when we've been called on to play in the wet we've often failed to adapt our game. We've tried to play dry weather footy in wet conditions. We'll see if we have gotten smarter as well as harder. It used to be that these kind of days were made for us, now I'm not so sure.


You would hope players like West, Boyd, Cross and Hahn would excel in wet conditions.

One player who loves playing in the wet is our new ruckman Ben Hudson, expect him to be fighting and scrapping at the bottom of the pack come Saturday.

[1eyedog]

I agree with mjp.

It takes more skill to handle and dispose of the ball cleanly and accurately in the wet. The more skillful players have more chance of doing that than those lesser skilled players.

Hawkins owned the wet.

I generally agree. I have just seen highly skilled players come back down to the skills of the average player through wet conditions. My opinion ::)

[hujsh]

History says a team that gets flogged by over 100 points, come back and win the following week...

LETS MAKE HISTORY!!!

Richmond didn't in 06. But then again they're Richmond

[1eyedog]

Sorry, Warwick Capper won the Coleman, not the Norm Smith, that's a typo.

[Dancin' Douggy]

I think West's field kicking is fine.

[Dancin' Douggy]

I'm stating to like West's kicks. While can can't give the ball a roost from outside 50 he has a neat kick and can hit a target in the forward 50 (all based on Sundays game)

Sorry, forgot to quote post. Here it is
:o

[Twodogs]

I generally agree. I have just seen highly skilled players come back down to the skills of the average player through wet conditions. My opinion ::)


My take on it is speed is the factor that gets affected by wet weather the most. The quicker players are bought back to a similiar speed to the other guys and become targets for more tackles and physical contact than they would normally expect.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Who get's Davey then? Possibly Addison?

Maybe, although I think that's a dangerous move. Addison has a bit of toe and size about him, but I think Davey would probably be far too 'nimble/slippery' and smart for him. Despite that, it's something that might eventuate purely because we haven't got a whole lot of other options. Morris hasn't done well in the past on him, so I'd cancel him out and play Morris on Robbo. He's the right match-up for Robertson.

Hargrave is a possibility, he's played on a few forward pocket types over the years and at times done alright. Still, it's risky to match him up against Davey - especially if he's in any kind of decent form. We don't appear to have any clear sort of match-up for Davey, which could be a bit of a worry.



Agree Hargrave will get first go, but we don't have a lot of depth in the back half. Could Griffen get the job again, may hurt him going the other way?

Obviously depends where Davey & Sylvia play, but if for instance they both play forward, then Griffen's probably going to have to spend some time on Sylvia as you mentioned. Griff's good in the contests and as you suggested, could hurt Sylvia on the rebound. This would therefore free up Hargrave to play on Davey.

Our depth down back is ordinary, if any side is able to find 2-3 winners in the forward half, then we're in a bit of a trouble, especially if they're the Davey/Sylvia/Robertson types - the small to medium forwards.

[1eyedog]

My take on it is speed is the factor that gets affected by wet weather the most. The quicker players are bought back to a similiar speed to the other guys and become targets for more tackles and physical contact than they would normally expect.

Ok, in this sense then is it possible that those extra tackles and body contact (because in the wet speed is compromised) creates more pressure and thus impacts on skill levels?

[westdog54]

Ok, in this sense then is it possible that those extra tackles and body contact (because in the wet speed is compromised) creates more pressure and thus impacts on skill levels?

Sounds about right. I'm definitely with MJP in that wet weather in itself shouldn't affect the skills of highly skilled players.

[Raw Toast]

Hill mentioned in a post match interview that he didn't know what to do when McLeod stood next to him for parts of the last qtr on Sunday. Hill mentioned that McLeod had been a hero of his growing up and was a bit awe-struck that he was actually playing on him.

Yes it's been a successful tactic of Craig's for a few years now, that McLeod get's the in-form indigenous forward from the other team - he consistently smashes them because they're still in awe of him. When I heard he had gone onto Hill I wasn't happy, and Hill didn't seem to do much after that move.

[FrediKanoute]

Maybe, although I think that's a dangerous move. Addison has a bit of toe and size about him, but I think Davey would probably be far too 'nimble/slippery' and smart for him. Despite that, it's something that might eventuate purely because we haven't got a whole lot of other options.

If Addison takes Davey we may as well all pack up and move to the Gold Coast.......He does not have the nouse to go with Davey. His commitment and endeavour is fine but davey is a compelte class above. A beaten Morris would play better on Davey than Addison would.

[Mantis]

If Addison takes Davey we may as well all pack up and move to the Gold Coast.......He does not have the nouse to go with Davey. His commitment and endeavour is fine but davey is a compelte class above. A beaten Morris would play better on Davey than Addison would.

But if Morris goes to Davey who plays on Robertson?

We don't have alot of depth up back.

[GVGjr]

But if Morris goes to Davey who plays on Robertson?

We don't have alot of depth up back.

I think Griffen or Hargrave could play on him

[Mantis]

I think Griffen or Hargrave could play on him

Ok. So the match-ups may look like this then:

Lake v Neitz
Wight v Newton
Morris v Davey
Robertson v Hargrave
Sylvia v Griffen

Personally I would prefer to see Morris on Robertson. If Hargrave plays on Robbo it has the possibility of turning out like Burton last week.