Always Right Match Committee Round 12 v Geelong at Marvel on Friday Night

[Scraggers]

Welcome to the Always Right Match Committee Thread. The Match Committee threads has been named after long time WOOF member Always Right who tragically passed away in March 2018.

If you were on the Western Bulldogs match committee what changes would you make after our Round 11 match against West Coast for our Round 12 match against Geelong at Marvel on Friday Night.

For those new to these threads, please give a brief explanation for your changes ... this would add a lot of value to the discussion.

[GVGjr]

Bump

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Hard to drop anyone from 101 point win.

But I'd look at...

Out - Khamis
In - Marra

I'm assuming that JJ would need another week in the VFL, but it must be tempting to bring him in. If they do, Scott to make way?

[GVGjr]

Hard to drop anyone from 101 point win.

But I'd look at...

Out - Khamis
In - Marra

I'm assuming that JJ would need another week in the VFL, but it must be tempting to bring him in. If they do, Scott to make way?

Is Baz out for a while?

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Is Baz out for a while?

Well that's embarrassing, how did I forget Baz!?

Good to see our selections becoming difficult.

[Grantysghost]

Well that's embarrassing, how did I forget Baz!?

Good to see our selections becoming difficult.

We don't need him xD

[GVGjr]

Well that's embarrassing, how did I forget Baz!?

Good to see our selections becoming difficult.

It was a legit question. Does he get another week off?

[EasternWest]

It was a legit question. Does he get another week off?

If he's well enough, no.

[bornadog]

It was a legit question. Does he get another week off?

Depends how ill he is. English was hospitalised, so that is why he was out a few weeks.

Duryea only missed a week

[Dry Rot]

Whatever happens, West stays.

[angelopetraglia]

Baz 100% in if fit.

Marra has to be a chance with a six goal haul, but they will put a lot of thought into how to dismantle Geelong's biggest weapon and who won the game for them last time Tom Stewart. We will need a plan to take away his intercept game if we are a chance. Not sure Marra is the player we need to do that this week?

Not sure if Bevo will persist with Sweet again this week.

[Bulldog4life]

Baz 100% in if fit.

Marra has to be a chance with a six goal haul, but they will put a lot of thought into how to dismantly Geelong's biggest weapon and who won the game for them last time Tom Stewart. We will need a plan to take away his intercept game if we are a chance. Not sure Marra is the player we need to do that this week?

Not sure if Bevo will persist with Sweet again this week.

He had 40 possessions this week. He's in form.

[Grantysghost]

Do we think Sweet did enough to stay?

I'm on the fence.

Who else can chop out in the ruck apart from Cordy?

Marra? He'd be better forward but ruck can't see it.

Decisions decisions. I think I'm liking Sweet before Cordy.

[Bulldog4life]

Do we think Sweet did enough to stay?

I'm on the fence.

Who else can chop out in the ruck apart from Cordy?

Marra? He'd be better forward but ruck can't see it.

Decisions decisions. I think I'm liking Sweet before Cordy.

Schache played well today in the ruck/forward role. Attacked the ball well. Sweety seemed a bit lost in the forward line to me. He has to get used to it fast. If Marra comes in you would think Khamis.

[bornadog]

Do we think Sweet did enough to stay?

I'm on the fence.

Who else can chop out in the ruck apart from Cordy?

Marra? He'd be better forward but ruck can't see it.

Decisions decisions. I think I'm liking Sweet before Cordy.

Buku can chop out

[Bulldog4life]

Buku can chop out

If Buku takes Sweet's spot Marra comes in.

[bornadog]

If Buku takes Sweet's spot Marra comes in.

That is what I am thinking

[angelopetraglia]

Looking at our list. What players could potenitally come in to be part of our best team?

I see these as definitey in.

JJ - He has attributes which others in our current 22 don't. Pace. Class. Rises in big games.
Hunter - Definitely takes a wing if fit.
Bruce - If he can get back some of his 2021 form.

Potential ins.

Wallis - Maybe for McNeil? But he is going to struggle if we have a full squad.
McLean - At his best he is ahead of Scott and McComb for me.
Vanda - Bevo loves him. So he has to be a big chance if fit.
Hanan - Another that Bevo loves.
Garcia - Hard to make a case for him unless we have injuries.
Marra - Ahead of Buku? He is going to find it tough if Bruce gets back.
Schache - I can only see this if we get some injuries to our talls.
Cordy - Bevo does like his versatility. From what we saw tonight he is ahead of Sweet if English is fit.
Crozier - Only if Duryea and another half back get injured. Think he is on the outer now.
Roarke - Possibly if Scott got injured. But just don't see him in our best 22.

[MrMahatma]

In: Marra, Baz, JJ
Out: McComb, Scott, Sweet

[angelopetraglia]

Just watched the VFL highlights. Marra took some big marks, kicked beautifully and a couple of nice snaps too. Hard to keep him out with a performance like that.

[DOG GOD]

I could see Cordy coming in to play a defensive role on Stewart.

So I could see…

Out - Sweet, Scott
In- Cordy, Baz

I think JJ will get a shot after the bye

[Mantis]

I could see Cordy coming in to play a defensive role on Stewart.

So I could see…

Out - Sweet, Scott
In- Cordy, Baz

I think JJ will get a shot after the bye

*!*!*!*! no!!! It’s taking half the season to get him out and you only do it for a week?

Scott did a really good job on Stewart in the 2nd half last year so do we try that again? Maybe even the skipper or Dunks goes to him? Anyone but Cordy! :D

[Rocco Jones]

Can Zaine keep up with Stewart? That role is more about mobility than aerial ability for mine. Zaine also doesn’t offer scoreboard danger.

Like Mantis, I’d go with Dunks or Scott. Dunks has the height and mobility (idk if the agility). Scott defensive traits but will struggle aerially. I definitely see them as both better options than Zaine + bring other things to team.

[The Underdog]

Can Zaine keep up with Stewart? That role is more about mobility than aerial ability for mine. Zaine also doesn’t offer scoreboard danger.

Like Mantis, I’d go with Dunks or Scott. Dunks has the height and mobility (idk if the agility). Scott defensive traits but will struggle aerially. I definitely see them as both better options than Zaine + bring other things to team.

Given his athleticism, ability in the air and background as a defender, is Buku the man for this role?

[Rocco Jones]

Given his athleticism, ability in the air and background as a defender, is Buku the man for this role?

I was thinking Buku but I don’t know about his game sense/footy IQ/experience/tank. Also, we might need him to relieve in the ruck, which would be an arduous combo.

[azabob]

I honestly do not know what we can do this week.

Our biggest weakness is Geelong's biggest strength. Sweet and Khamis will really struggle, but no idea who we can bring in to remedy it.

I don't think we should bring in JUH, Bews or Kolodjashnij or worse Stewart will towel him up in the air and run off him at every opportunity. Having said that Khamis will also struggle big time in this role.

[Bullies]

*!*!*!*! no!!! It’s taking half the season to get him out and you only do it for a week?

Scott did a really good job on Stewart in the 2nd half last year so do we try that again? Maybe even the skipper or Dunks goes to him? Anyone but Cordy! :D Scott also kept Gaff quiet last night. He is playing a role a lot of people don't see.

Khamis seems well off it at the moment. He will be best going back to the 2's after his experience and come back a better player.

Smith and Marra to come in and Khamis and McComb out.

[GVGjr]

On yesterdays form with Footscray

In Schache and Johannisen but lets add Smith for JJ

On last nights performance

Out Sweet and Khamis

[Happy Days]

Surely we bring Marra in? 6 goals is very sick.

[mjp]

Surely we bring Marra in? 6 goals is very sick.

It's one game.

I think he needs to BANG THE DOOR DOWN.

1x bag of 6 is a knock on the door. 2x is a LOUD knock on the door. 3x? You're bashing it down.

[Rocco Jones]

It's one game.

I think he needs to BANG THE DOOR DOWN.

1x bag of 6 is a knock on the door. 2x is a LOUD knock on the door. 3x? You're bashing it down.

I agree but I liked what I saw of him the week before too.

The added issue with Marra is he has a low floor. Can struggle to be competitive/get near it at all for long patches.

[Happy Days]

Yeah he was good last week too. 9 goals is his last 6 quarters. Why are you so afraid to be loved?

[EasternWest]

Yeah he was good last week too. 9 goals is his last 6 quarters. Why are you so afraid to be loved?

Jade Rawlings kicked 7 on debut.

[Happy Days]

Jade Rawlings kicked 7 on debut.

Hell yeah he did. That game ruled.

[EasternWest]

Hell yeah he did. That game ruled.

And if course then went on to great things for us...

[Grantysghost]

Hell yeah he did. That game ruled.

Even though we lost.

[DOG GOD]

*!*!*!*! no!!! It’s taking half the season to get him out and you only do it for a week?

Scott did a really good job on Stewart in the 2nd half last year so do we try that again? Maybe even the skipper or Dunks goes to him? Anyone but Cordy! :D
I’m not saying I would do it, but I could see Bevo doing it…
Btw I agree 100% with you Mantis ;)

[Bulldog Joe]

It's one game.

I think he needs to BANG THE DOOR DOWN.

1x bag of 6 is a knock on the door. 2x is a LOUD knock on the door. 3x? You're bashing it down.

I understand your sentiment, but feel he will offer much more than Buku.

Having watched the VFL game on the stream, I am thinking a few changes are warranted for Geelong

Smith (if fit) for McComb
Schache for Sweet
Marra for Buku

Want JJ in as well but don't see who he would replace.
Note that VFL also playing Friday from 4.05 so perhaps keep McComb as sub.
Cleary needs to play at Footscray and JJ needs game time, so perhaps another week at Footscray.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

In. B Smith Cordy and Wallis
Out. Sweet Khamis McComb
Cordy to defence as third tall defender, with O’Brien replacing Sweet as second ruck man and forward.
Wallis to replace McComb on forward line.

[1eyedog]

It's one game.

I think he needs to BANG THE DOOR DOWN.

1x bag of 6 is a knock on the door. 2x is a LOUD knock on the door. 3x? You're bashing it down.

Hang on. We have one natural forward in Weightman. Are you saying Marra needs three 6 goal games to get a run?

[Mantis]

In. B Smith Cordy and Wallis
Out. Sweet Khamis McComb
Cordy to defence as third tall defender, with O’Brien replacing Sweet as second ruck man and forward.
Wallis to replace McComb on forward line.

Why would you take TOB out of defence when it’s obvious he adds so much more to that zone than Cordy?

And has he ever played in the ruck?

[GVGjr]

In. B Smith Cordy and Wallis
Out. Sweet Khamis McComb
Cordy to defence as third tall defender, with O’Brien replacing Sweet as second ruck man and forward.
Wallis to replace McComb on forward line.

NBP, do you think JJ needs another week at Footscray?

[mjp]

Hang on. We have one natural forward in Weightman. Are you saying Marra needs three 6 goal games to get a run?

I think 3x 6-goal games would be an un-realistically high bar. I think 3x high impact games in the VFL should be the 'bar'. Playing a good game doesn't (or shouldn't) get you in...play a few. Earn your spot.

JJ? He has runs on the board and can come back in as far as I am concerned. Jamarra (and Schache for that matter) doesn't and needs to do more than play a single good game (though I am hearing it might be 2x good games for JUH?)...

[1eyedog]

Yeah Jamarra made a contribution the week before last as well. With Bruce still out I just feel if Jamarra is kicking bags I'd like him back in. I think he creates a bigger match up headache than Khamis at the moment who really struggled to get involved in a very Bulldogs controlled game (not advocating for Khamis to necessarily get dropped).

Also, while it was fantastic to get such an even spread of goal kickers against the Eagles, it will be much tougher against the Cats. I know two good games in a row does not guarantee a call up, but given its our young gun whose confidence is up and probably rightfully should expect a call up, I'd like the MC to pull the trigger and give him a few games to reward his good form. The more games he plays the better for mine.

You have vastly more experience how to maximise player confidence vs where they are in their development and whether what they're doing is expected of them, I only coach my daughter's u/15 footy side. But what I have learnt coaching kids is that positive reinforcement works wonders on a large number of players. It's my most effective asset and my feeling is that Jamarra is just such a confidence player who feeds off positivity which in turn snowballs into capacity building making it easier to maintain confidence and, ultimately, fast track development. It's just so cyclical in nature. Also working closely Indigenous people generally for 20 years I have learnt that many Indigenous people respond positively to this as well.

That's just my heart talking though.

[Rocco Jones]

I think 3x 6-goal games would be an un-realistically high bar. I think 3x high impact games in the VFL should be the 'bar'. Playing a good game doesn't (or shouldn't) get you in...play a few. Earn your spot.

JJ? He has runs on the board and can come back in as far as I am concerned. Jamarra (and Schache for that matter) doesn't and needs to do more than play a single good game (though I am hearing it might be 2x good games for JUH?)...

I’d probably have Marra in as I think it’s been two but I’m hearing you. The huge added element for mine is that Marra has been unable to compete at the highest level for long patches whilst in.

[Ozza]

In: Smith, Marra,
Out: McComb, Sweet.

Buku to second ruck if Tim needs.
JJ gets another week to tune up further.
As much as I love Wally - can't have him and West, and Westy was terrific.

[soupman]

I think Jamarra comes in. A big part is to reward his form. The goals are great but based on Happy Days report last week and other posters in general it seems his overall contribution is going really well.

It also helps big time that Khamis has barely contributed in his last 2 games (and was quiet in the late game the week prior IIRC). I have been pleased with his contributions but he is out of form atm and JUH is the best option we have for his spot until Hannan comes in.

[jeemak]

I just want Marra picked to avoid a situation where if Bevo is asked why he wasn't he doesn't get sand in his hoo haa and give the media another opportunity to sink the boots in!

[azabob]

I can’t see Marra, Buku or Sweet getting a kick this week. Not sure what we do.

[AshMac]

I think Jamarra comes in. A big part is to reward his form. The goals are great but based on Happy Days report last week and other posters in general it seems his overall contribution is going really well.

It also helps big time that Khamis has barely contributed in his last 2 games (and was quiet in the late game the week prior IIRC). I have been pleased with his contributions but he is out of form atm and JUH is the best option we have for his spot until Hannan comes in.

What’s the latest w Hannan? I thought he was ok early in the year and his size and speed can be impactful. Haven’t heard a thing on him other than indefinite due to concussion. Must be pretty serious to still be out with it?

[azabob]

What’s the latest w Hannan? I thought he was ok early in the year and his size and speed can be impactful. Haven’t heard a thing on him other than indefinite due to concussion. Must be pretty serious to still be out with it?

Sigh. Hannan would be a great option for Friday night.

[bornadog]

I can’t see Marra, Buku or Sweet getting a kick this week. Not sure what we do.

Why?

[Danjul]

I can’t see Marra, Buku or Sweet getting a kick this week. Not sure what we do.
Why does Sweet have to get a kick?

After round 8 our season was in tatters. Beaten by Adelaide and Port who were seen as basket cases and with some of our stars missing.

We went against Collingwood filled with fear and trepidation.

And not only did we win that but also the next two games.

I would be happy for Sweet to sit on the bench all game. His presence generated miracles before and might be enough again.

[FrediKanoute]

Yeah Jamarra made a contribution the week before last as well. With Bruce still out I just feel if Jamarra is kicking bags I'd like him back in. I think he creates a bigger match up headache than Khamis at the moment who really struggled to get involved in a very Bulldogs controlled game (not advocating for Khamis to necessarily get dropped).

Not sure I agree. I think Khamis has a bit of presence on the field that JUH doesn't have yet. Teams are respecting his ability to get off the leash and impact. Also Khamis means that they are struggling to double team Naughton. From a balance perspective I would ask JUH to have a couple more games in the 2's.

[FrediKanoute]

For me:

Out: McComb (did nothing Bad, but with players returning its time to return to the VFL);

In: Bazlenka

[bornadog]

Not sure I agree. I think Khamis has a bit of presence on the field that JUH doesn't have yet. Teams are respecting his ability to get off the leash and impact. Also Khamis means that they are struggling to double team Naughton. From a balance perspective I would ask JUH to have a couple more games in the 2's.

I noticed Kharmis doing alot of blocking and getting in the way of defenders to help Naughton

[1eyedog]

Not sure I agree. I think Khamis has a bit of presence on the field that JUH doesn't have yet. Teams are respecting his ability to get off the leash and impact. Also Khamis means that they are struggling to double team Naughton. From a balance perspective I would ask JUH to have a couple more games in the 2's.

Fair. I thought he had a very underwhelming night actually. Hopefully can make more of a contribution if he stays in the team. Jamarra creates a bit of panic purely because of who he is.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Marra next week I hope, not this week perhaps.
I think Geelong would body him a lot like Cochin did to Buddy.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Not sure I agree. I think Khamis has a bit of presence on the field that JUH doesn't have yet. Teams are respecting his ability to get off the leash and impact. Also Khamis means that they are struggling to double team Naughton. From a balance perspective I would ask JUH to have a couple more games in the 2's.

I agree100% but reserve the right to change after Geelong.
I think JUH should come in next week, to maximise his potential come the pointy end

[hujsh]

I agree100% but reserve the right to change after Geelong.
I think JUH should come in next week, to maximise his potential come the pointy end

Worth noting that next week for us is an extra week away with the bye (VFL has the bye too)

[soupman]

Not sure I agree. I think Khamis has a bit of presence on the field that JUH doesn't have yet. Teams are respecting his ability to get off the leash and impact. Also Khamis means that they are struggling to double team Naughton. From a balance perspective I would ask JUH to have a couple more games in the 2's.

The issue for me is that the last two weeks he is not getting off the leash and having an impact. Nearly everytime he has gotten the opportunity he has dropped the mark.

[FrediKanoute]

The issue for me is that the last two weeks he is not getting off the leash and having an impact. Nearly everytime he has gotten the opportunity he has dropped the mark.

Don't disagree, but he makes decoy runs and takes players away from the contest much better than JUH did in the first few games. How many times do we see Buku flying for the same ball as Naughts? We don't because he has led in a different direction. I'm happy with his contribution and whilst I think JUH will be the better player at the end of their careers, right now Buku is the man. JUH had his chance early. He needs to learn that its harder to get in the team than it is to stay in the team.

[azabob]

Why?

Geelong will plonk Stewart on the resting ruck and either a Bews or Kolodjashnij will play on Khamis/Mara and run off them all night.

I am being a real doomsdayer on this - hope i am wrong.

[Mantis]

Geelong will plonk Stewart on the resting ruck and either a Bews or Kolodjashnij will play on Khamis/Mara and run off them all night.

I am being a real doomsdayer on this - hope i am wrong.

Does that mean Stewart goes to Dunks?

And are we really concerned about the damage Bews or Kolo can do? Let them run I say.

[azabob]

Does that mean Stewart goes to Dunks?

And are we really concerned about the damage Bews or Kolo can do? Let them run I say.

Do you honestly think Dunkley will be our 2nd ruck, or is this a throw away line?

[Mantis]

Do you honestly think Dunkley will be our 2nd ruck, or is this a throw away line?

Given Geelong’s rather weak ruck division and the inability for Sweet to do anything other than compete (well) in ruck contests I’d be happy to run with our 2nd ruck being a mix of anyone (including Dunks) this week.

However it’s important that we get to choose who Stewart plays on this week… not them.

[Mantis]

I’m going:

In - B.Smith, JUH, Schache (sub)

Out - Sweet, McComb

[1eyedog]

Difference between Khamis and Marra is Khamis doesn't necessarily need a big so not 100% convinced that he provides a chop out for Naughts. Agree he can help to create space, perhaps better than Marra can and with Hannan out maybe that's the go to methodology, which I'm cool with. Still think Bont, Naughts and Marra would create real problems in the air for them down back.

Do we feel that Khamis is more physical than Marra? I'm not convinced. I may be wrong. Do you remember those intense repeat efforts from Marra a month ago? Have we seen this from Khamis?

[azabob]

Difference between Khamis and Marra is Khamis doesn't necessarily need a big so not 100% convinced that he provides a chop out for Naughts. Agree he can help to create space, perhaps better than Marra can and with Hannan out maybe that's the go to methodology, which I'm cool with. Still think Bont, Naughts and Marra would create real problems in the air for them down back.

Do we feel that Khamis is more physical than Marra? I'm not convinced. I may be wrong. Do you remember those intense repeat efforts from Marra a month ago? Have we seen this from Khamis?

I think they are equal in terms of physicality and a midsize defender could defend both in the air and on the ground. Maybe it is is a case we rotate them 3 weeks on, 3 weeks off.

I may be clutching at straws but Hananan physicality is the one we are missing.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Difference between Khamis and Marra is Khamis doesn't necessarily need a big so not 100% convinced that he provides a chop out for Naughts. Agree he can help to create space, perhaps better than Marra can and with Hannan out maybe that's the go to methodology, which I'm cool with. Still think Bont, Naughts and Marra would create real problems in the air for them down back.

Do we feel that Khamis is more physical than Marra? I'm not convinced. I may be wrong. Do you remember those intense repeat efforts from Marra a month ago? Have we seen this from Khamis?

I think Marra is more physical than Khamis and don't necessarily buy into the "he's laconic" groupthink. Marra's in his second year so his efforts probably aren't as consistent as Khamis, but Marra has shown a real appetite to run and chase and tackle which Khamis hasn't.

Khamis is better in the air at this stage and surprisingly has had better leading patterns, in that he hasn't choked up Naughton's space.

I'm happy either way but I think we should reward Marra's good form, whilst Khamis has been pretty quiet for 2 weeks.

[bornadog]

Difference between Khamis and Marra is Khamis doesn't necessarily need a big so not 100% convinced that he provides a chop out for Naughts. Agree he can help to create space, perhaps better than Marra can and with Hannan out maybe that's the go to methodology, which I'm cool with. Still think Bont, Naughts and Marra would create real problems in the air for them down back.

Do we feel that Khamis is more physical than Marra? I'm not convinced. I may be wrong. Do you remember those intense repeat efforts from Marra a month ago? Have we seen this from Khamis?

Does anyone think Khamis doesn't really like body contact? I could be wrong here.

[Rocco Jones]

Does anyone think Khamis doesn't really like body contact? I could be wrong here.

I don’t know how much is about liking/not wanting body contact for Buku but I feel he is suited to it when it’s an aerial contest. He gets to use his athleticism, looks brave and willing to put himself in harm’s way. Ground level, it’s a bit harder. He is young and pretty small for his role. I think he is willing enough there but maybe not the IQ/strength combo.

[comrade]

Time to give Marra another crack. Not the ideal team to do it against, but his tail is up.

[Mantis]

I think Marra is more physical than Khamis and don't necessarily buy into the "he's laconic" groupthink. Marra's in his second year so his efforts probably aren't as consistent as Khamis, but Marra has shown a real appetite to run and chase and tackle which Khamis hasn't.

Khamis is better in the air at this stage and surprisingly has had better leading patterns, in that he hasn't choked up Naughton's space.

I'm happy either way but I think we should reward Marra's good form, whilst Khamis has been pretty quiet for 2 weeks.

Can we play both this week?

[bornadog]

Can we play both this week?

Sweet out Marra in, Buku second ruck - could work

[Mantis]

Sweet out Marra in, Buku second ruck - could work

That's what I'm hoping we do.

Given we only go in with one ruck I would like Schache to be the sub as he gives a bit of coverage if English goes off... with Geelong's ruck division being a bit of a weakness and with neither of their options overly physical we can probably go in a bit light.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Can we play both this week?

Potentially as BAD has said.

I still like Sweet as our second ruck, limitations withstanding. He gives a presence in the middle which we haven't had and I don't think it's coincidental we play better with him in the side.

Would Buku give us a lot more than Sweet? Clearly not in the ruck - especially if he's v Hawkins - up forward, likely ... but it's also likely Buku has 6-7 touches and 1 goal.

[Bulldog4life]

Buku has a great leap better than Cordy.

[Danjul]

Potentially as BAD has said.

I still like Sweet as our second ruck, limitations withstanding. He gives a presence in the middle which we haven't had and I don't think it's coincidental we play better with him in the side.

Would Buku give us a lot more than Sweet? Clearly not in the ruck - especially if he's v Hawkins - up forward, likely ... but it's also likely Buku has 6-7 touches and 1 goal.
How cruel is fate?

Buku was unsighted as a forward for 95% of the game and then the ball fell in his arms. He looked stunned but did kick the goal. Superstar.

Earlier in the game Sweet caught the ball in almost the same spot. No goal because the siren went 2 seconds earlier. Catastrophic failure.

I’m sure Shakespeare could have turned this into something memorable.

[1eyedog]

Does anyone think Khamis doesn't really like body contact? I could be wrong here.

I'm not sure and I'm not saying he doesn't. I've got a sneaking unfounded suspicion it's either Khamis or Marra for the MC because they won't want to roll on the dice on there potentially being double the likelihood of the ball being whipped out of there really quick, hence our preference to play an extra inside mid in there (Bont / Libba at times / Smith). Perhaps we can sustain both of them given how good Naughts and Flea are in F50 when we don't have it.

Not sold on Khamis as a second ruck he'll get bodied too easily and I'm not confident with him re. repeat efforts. Happy to be proven wrong.

[The Underdog]

How cruel is fate?

Buku was unsighted as a forward for 95% of the game and then the ball fell in his arms. He looked stunned but did kick the goal. Superstar.

Earlier in the game Sweet caught the ball in almost the same spot. No goal because the siren went 2 seconds earlier. Catastrophic failure.

I’m sure Shakespeare could have turned this into something memorable.

Shakespeare might have been less florid.
Buku was quiet, he did however manage 3 scoring shots including his goal while "stunned". Its a shame the siren went before Sweet's heroic mark and certain goal, which would have given him 2 kicks on the night. Regardless they were our 2 lowest disposal getters (and I know this is important to you).
I would actually have both in this week as I think they can play a role that helps us against the Cats, plus this was the best our forward line has functioned this year in my opinion, which admittedly was helped by the opponent. Both need to supply more presence, Buku aerially and Sweet outside of ruck contests but I'd be tempted to run with trying to assert dominance over Geelong's rucks at the bounce which remains a weakness and Buku's ability to work up the ground and create space.

[soupman]

There is zero chance Sweet is selected to play this week.

Geelong have a poor ruck division, English is back and already in form, and the last thing we will want is a forward that isn't able to play a role and is basically a dream player for Stewart or whoever to drift off.

[Grantysghost]

Is Stef Martin still on the list? He's vanished!

Edit : Ah I see he has a shoulder injury 1-2 weeks.

[Happy Days]

It’s not at their bowling alley rubbish ground, so given that he’s gonna have to defend more than 50m wing to wing I’m not as scared of Stewart as I would be otherwise. We still have to engage him but it shouldn’t be *the* deciding factor in team selection.

[Danjul]

Shakespeare might have been less florid.

Buku was quiet, he did however manage 3 scoring shots including his goal while "stunned". Its a shame the siren went before Sweet's
I would actually have both in this week as I think they can play a role that helps us against the Cats, plus this was the best our forward line has functioned this year in my opinion, which admittedly was helped by the opponent. Both need to supply more presence, Buku aerially and Sweet outside of ruck contests but I'd be tempted to run with trying to assert dominance over Geelong's rucks at the bounce which remains a weakness and Buku's ability to work up the ground and create space.
Fully agree.

Both players are raw and inexperienced in their roles. They have shown some potential and that has to be developed for the club’s sake.

Sweet needs time working with the team. One thing I like about his work is he looks around for a ruck target. When others look for him he will be more of an asset.

[Danjul]

There is zero chance Sweet is selected to play this week.

Geelong have a poor ruck division, English is back and already in form, and the last thing we will want is a forward that isn't able to play a role and is basically a dream player for Stewart or whoever to drift off.
Could be true, l don’t know

. Last year they were better in that part of the game. Blicavs was better than English and Hawkins was too strong as second ruck on their forward line.

[bornadog]

Could be true, l don’t know

. Last year they were better in that part of the game. Blicavs was better than English and Hawkins was too strong as second ruck on their forward line.

No use referring to last year. English is now more mature and improving every week.

[Danjul]

No use referring to last year. English is now more mature and improving every week.
No disagreement there.

But I am referring to dismissing the opposition. I think they still deserve some respect. We will find out soon.

[bornadog]

No disagreement there.

But I am referring to dismissing the opposition. I think they still deserve some respect. We will find out soon.

Agree, I wouldn't dismiss them at all. The forward line with Hawkins and Cameron are dangerous.

[hujsh]

No disagreement there.

But I am referring to dismissing the opposition. I think they still deserve some respect. We will find out soon.

I agree. Their ruck division, while not a strength, is more focused on mobility and around the ground impact than the ruck contest. They might prove a natural foil to Tim

[DOG GOD]

Agree, I wouldn't dismiss them at all. The forward line with Hawkins and Cameron are dangerous.
Yep, and if an out of form Darling can kick 4, I wonder what these 2 might do.

[bornadog]

Yep, and if an out of form Darling can kick 4, I wonder what these 2 might do.

They have kicked 63 goals between them and Stengle has kicked 23.




Name
Games
Total


1
Jeremy Cameron (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pp-geelong-cats--jeremy-cameron)
11
32


2
Tom Hawkins (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pp-geelong-cats--tom-hawkins)
11
31


3
Tyson Stengle (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pp-geelong-cats--tyson-stengle)
11
23

[DOG GOD]

They have kicked 63 goals between them and Stengle has kicked 23.




Name
Games
Total


1
Jeremy Cameron (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pp-geelong-cats--jeremy-cameron)
11
32


2
Tom Hawkins (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pp-geelong-cats--tom-hawkins)
11
31


3
Tyson Stengle (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pp-geelong-cats--tyson-stengle)
11
23



Stengle has been a great pick up for them…gotta keep an eye on him too. What we don’t want is Rohan coming in pulling one out his arse.

[mjp]

I'm going to regret saying this but I don't think the Geelong forwards will beat us. If we lose it will be because we spend the night kicking it straight down the throats of Stewart and De Koning.

I really hope we have a plan.

[GVGjr]

There is zero chance Sweet is selected to play this week.

Geelong have a poor ruck division, English is back and already in form, and the last thing we will want is a forward that isn't able to play a role and is basically a dream player for Stewart or whoever to drift off.

I agree, I think it should be Schache supporting English this week.

[ratsmac]

I agree, I think it should be Schache supporting English this week.

This is the way I'd go. Schache as a defensive forward to play on Stewart who can pop up with a couple a goals to boot. Similar to how we tackled Alir in the prelim last year. He can play 2nd ruck and shouldn't get thrashed as their rucks aren't your Gawn/Grundy types.

I'd love to play Marra as well to reward good form. Strike while the iron is hot.

Ins- Schache, Marra, Baz

Outs- Sweet - surplus to our needs, Buku - quiet 2 weeks in a row, McComb - sub

[comrade]

This is the way I'd go. Schache as a defensive forward to play on Stewart who can pop up with a couple a goals to boot. Similar to how we tackled Alir in the prelim last year. He can play 2nd ruck and shouldn't get thrashed as their rucks aren't your Gawn/Grundy types.

I'd love to play Marra as well to reward good form. Strike while the iron is hot.

Ins- Schache, Marra, Baz

Outs- Sweet - surplus to our needs, Buku - quiet 2 weeks in a row, McComb - sub

I like this.

[Grantysghost]

I like this.

Why do you think Schache would miraculously get a gig over Cordy who's been the preferred option?

I'd have the same but Cordy in place of Schache.

[azabob]

Why do you think Schache would miraculously get a gig over Cordy who's been the preferred option?

I'd have the same but Cordy in place of Schache.

Sorry to jump in but, GG for mine, this thread is what I would do. Not trying to guess what the MC is going to do.

A lot of discussion tho is around what we think the MC will do.

[comrade]

Why do you think Schache would miraculously get a gig over Cordy who's been the preferred option?

I'd have the same but Cordy in place of Schache.

Because a man can dream.

[Grantysghost]

Because a man can dream.

Gold xD

[Grantysghost]

Sorry to jump in but, GG for mine, this thread is what I would do. Not trying to guess what the MC is going to do.

A lot of discussion tho is around what we think the MC will do.

I'm with them. I'd have Cordy before Schache.

[bornadog]

I'm with them. I'd have Cordy before Schache.

Not me, I would give Schache a go at 2nd ruck

[boydogs]

There is zero chance Sweet is selected to play this week.

Geelong have a poor ruck division, English is back and already in form, and the last thing we will want is a forward that isn't able to play a role and is basically a dream player for Stewart or whoever to drift off.

We’re so stuck in the mentality of neutralising opposition rucks, we’re walking away from driving home an advantage. Both ruckmen were great in the centre bounce v WC which was a big factor in us kicking 25 goals

[Grantysghost]

Not me, I would give Schache a go at 2nd ruck
Interesting. I’m not anti Schache I just wonder why ,have you seen some worthy form or is it a matchup thing ?

[Bulldog Joe]

Interesting. I’m not anti Schache I just wonder why ,have you seen some worthy form or is it a matchup thing ?

I'm in the Schache camp on this one.

Schache is better at most things than Zaine, although his bad is worse his better provides much more upside.

Schache was also better in the VFL, so did more to earn a spot.

Zaine is better at making his opponent earn it, but Zaine still doesn't get it much.

If we are looking at how we can be better we pick Josh.

If we are thinking we need to mitigate damage, we pick Zaine, but that mindset is more likely to be a losing one.

[bornadog]

Interesting. I’m not anti Schache I just wonder why ,have you seen some worthy form or is it a matchup thing ?

Just to explain, the question I was answering was Cordy or Schache and I choose Schache until Zaine finds some form.

BJ explains it nicely



I'm in the Schache camp on this one.

Schache is better at most things than Zaine, although his bad is worse his better provides much more upside.

Schache was also better in the VFL, so did more to earn a spot.

Zaine is better at making his opponent earn it, but Zaine still doesn't get it much.

If we are looking at how we can be better we pick Josh.

If we are thinking we need to mitigate damage, we pick Zaine, but that mindset is more likely to be a losing one.

However, I stand with my original change and ie in Marra, out Sweet and Buku to help out as 2nd ruck

[The Bulldogs Bite]

We’re so stuck in the mentality of neutralising opposition rucks, we’re walking away from driving home an advantage. Both ruckmen were great in the centre bounce v WC which was a big factor in us kicking 25 goals

Quoted for truth.

[soupman]

We’re so stuck in the mentality of neutralising opposition rucks, we’re walking away from driving home an advantage. Both ruckmen were great in the centre bounce v WC which was a big factor in us kicking 25 goals

I don't necessarily disagree with you. I'm very open to playing double ruck and despite my many reservations on Sweet have been impressed with his tapwork and do think he's had a positive impact in the ruck.

My issue is more that he hasn't offered anything around the ground since the Collingwood game (he was ok in tight with his pressure work after the ruck contest against Gold Coast but has offered almost literally nothing aside from that for 2 weeks). This is compounded by there being no evidence we were trying to use him constructively in the second ruck role against the Eagles. Maybe there was a plan for him and it just wasn't very prominent, but realistically if we aren't able to find a role for him aside from as a relief ruck for an outrageously in form English then I don't think he is our best option.

Fwiw I would pick Schache for that defensive role up forward over Cordy. I think they offer similiar benefits in being able to pull of the "task" aspect of this role but Schache offers much more as a forward option.

[Danjul]

I don't necessarily disagree with you. I'm very open to playing double ruck and despite my many reservations on Sweet have been impressed with his tapwork and do think he's had a positive impact in the ruck.

My issue is more that he hasn't offered anything around the ground since the Collingwood game (he was ok in tight with his pressure work after the ruck contest against Adelaide but has offered almost literally nothing aside from that for 2 weeks). This is compounded by there being no evidence we were trying to use him constructively in the second ruck role against the Eagles. Maybe there was a plan for him and it just wasn't very prominent, but realistically if we aren't able to find a role for him aside from as a relief ruck for an outrageously in form English then I don't think he is our best option.

Fwiw I would pick Schache for that defensive role up forward over Cordy. I think they offer similiar benefits in being able to pull of the "task" aspect of this role but Schache offers much more as a forward option.
English has improved enormously in the ruck in the last six months but this is outrageously in form

Goldstein: disposals: 28 hitouts: 57
English : disposals: 11 hitouts: 7

(Cordy 8,8)

English was allowed to develop

[bornadog]

English has improved enormously in the ruck in the last six months but this is outrageously in form

Goldstein: disposals: 28 hitouts: 57
English : disposals: 11 hitouts: 7

(Cordy 8,8)

English was allowed to develop


What are these stats?

[hujsh]

What are these stats?


I'm guessing it was last year? Doesn't relate at all to English's current form but I believe Danjul is saying if we played Sweet we'd see a similar improvement (or that we would have if we had). Alternatively he's saying English's form isn't as good as Goldstein the day he got toweled up

Irrelevant to how we win this week and since Sweet doesn't really seem like a good forward probably irrelevant going forward too. We clearly decided English was a better long term ruck prospect with a higher ceiling and we're starting to see that come to fruition now.

[Bulldog Joe]

English has improved enormously in the ruck in the last six months but this is outrageously in form

Goldstein: disposals: 28 hitouts: 57
English : disposals: 11 hitouts: 7

(Cordy 8,8)

English was allowed to develop

2022
English 22 Disposals 22 HO 1 goal 7 marks
Goldstein 4 disposals 19 HO 1 mark
Xerri 20 disposals 26 HO 1 mark

The numbers for English and Goldstein in 2022 bear no comparison to previous years and I just don't find the game your stats refer to.

[jeemak]

I can't believe anyone would say statistics from round 10 2019 aren't relevant to now.

[hujsh]

I can't believe anyone would say statistics from round 10 2019 aren't relevant to now.

I want English to win a Brownlow and for those number to appear behind him as he goes onstage to accept it

[Jeanette54]

I really hope we have a plan.

We need a player (Doc or Libba) in between the rucks and the boundary line when Hawkins takes the throw in. Never mind who their man is, the most dangerous Cat at these throw ins is Hawkins himself

[Hotdog60]

I'm happy for Zaine's knee to come in but the rest can stay in the VFL.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

I'm happy for Zaine's knee to come in but the rest can stay in the VFL.

There is an Arthurs Seat down my way with Tony's Nose nearby. Tony's Nose deserves Zaine's knee for being so close to Arthur's seat.

[Danjul]

I can't believe anyone would say statistics from round 10 2019 aren't relevant to now.
The stats were a reference to a good ruck performance. A lot of it happened a few metres in front of me.

57 hitouts combined with 28 disposals is good in most people’s opinion.

And they will always be,

and I am glad you see it that way too.

[Grantysghost]

The stats were a reference to a good ruck performance. A lot of it happened a few metres in front of me.

57 hitouts combined with 28 disposals is good in most people’s opinion.

And they will always be,

and I am glad you see it that way too.

Nice zinger Danj!

Too many cheap shots from Jee lately good to see him put in his place.
Plus he wants to trade Dunkley.

https://media.giphy.com/media/RdKjAkFTNZkWUGyRXF/giphy.gif

[jeemak]

The stats were a reference to a good ruck performance. A lot of it happened a few metres in front of me.

57 hitouts combined with 28 disposals is good in most people’s opinion.

And they will always be,

and I am glad you see it that way too.

The stats reflect an outrageously good performance by a league leading monster ruck against a developing puppy.

English should have beaten his opponents convincingly on the weekend, because he's better than them, though at least he's in a relatively similar age bracket. He's playing great football, I hope it continues.

But, I don't even know why I'm responding......I don't even know what I'm responding to. Are you trying to say that if we gave Jordan Sweet games over the past two or three years he could beat Tim English in 2019?

It's weird. I don't get it.

[jeemak]

Nice zinger Danj!

Too many cheap shots from Jee lately good to see him put in his place.
Plus he wants to trade Dunkley.

https://media.giphy.com/media/RdKjAkFTNZkWUGyRXF/giphy.gif

I have a bad attitude.

[Grantysghost]

I have a bad attitude.

I enjoy said attitude, and also Danjul's zingers.

So win win for me xD

[boydogs]

I think we've been undervaluing ruck work for years, particularly given the mids we have to take advantage of it. There's a huge correlation between Sweet playing and us winning, and high winning margins too. I don't see what Khamis, Cordy or Schache bring as forwards exceeding what Sweet brings as a second ruck

[Bulldog Joe]

I think we've been undervaluing ruck work for years, particularly given the mids we have to take advantage of it. There's a huge correlation between Sweet playing and us winning, and high winning margins too. I don't see what Khamis, Cordy or Schache bring as forwards exceeding what Sweet brings as a second ruck

Unfortunately, Sweet can only contribute at the stoppage and this represents a liability when he is playing second fiddle to English.

If he could develop to be any threat forward this would change.

With rotations we can't really afford to have a player limited to contributing for about 20-25% game time.

[soupman]

I think we've been undervaluing ruck work for years, particularly given the mids we have to take advantage of it. There's a huge correlation between Sweet playing and us winning, and high winning margins too. I don't see what Khamis, Cordy or Schache bring as forwards exceeding what Sweet brings as a second ruck

I am in favour of playing two rucks and trying to get Sweet to a stage where he does contribute as a forward. A bit like how Brisbane played McInerney in that role for a couple of years. I agree the bar is so low with what Cordy in particular contributes that id think Sweet could surely offer not much less forward and much more in the ruck.

Thats completely not how our MC operates though so it's kind of a moot point. He is 100% being dropped.

[azabob]

I have a bad attitude.

You must be doing something right though, in all my time posting of woof I don't believe that anyone has had the pleasure of GVGjr giving them a nickname!

[azabob]

I am in favour of playing two rucks and trying to get Sweet to a stage where he does contribute as a forward. A bit like how Brisbane played McInerney in that role for a couple of years. I agree the bar is so low with what Cordy in particular contributes that id think Sweet could surely offer not much less forward and much more in the ruck.

Thats completely not how our MC operates though so it's kind of a moot point. He is 100% being dropped.

Brisbane are still doing that. Playing Darcy Fort.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

With rotations we can't really afford to have a player limited to contributing for about 20-25% game time.

Sounds good in theory, but in an 18-team competition, every side has passengers.

Cordy's 6-7 possessions as a forward, and relative incompetence as a ruck, is limited contribution for the duration of his TOG.

At least Sweet has a strength which, if executed, can help our much vaunted midfield do what they do.

Playing Cordy/Schache as a second ruck gives us nothing, and neither are likely to contribute much anywhere else on the ground if we're being honest.

[soupman]

Sounds good in theory, but in an 18-team competition, every side has passengers.


True, although that means it becomes really important that those bottom 6 or so players can perform their role really well and are not liabilities elsewhere.

Sweets gametime in the ruck is adequate, his tapwork is good but he is giving us very little outside of the ruck contest. but realistically he is getting at most 40% gametime in the ruck (probably less, English has minimum 80% gametime every week and almost all of it would be in the ruck), and thus needs to spend another 40-60% of the game performing a role elsewhere. Thus far he has offered very little in the forward role (and while I don't think Cordy is great there either i do think he has shown he can neutralise contests and "play his role").

On top of that his ability to runout games has been poor, he was noticably fatigued for basically the entire second half against Gold Coast and was largely unsighted outside of ruck contests against West Coast. If you're gonna have a role player who doesn't offer as much as others then you atleast don't want to have to worry about them running the game out.

For comparism Cordy does seems to register underneath 75% gametime most weeks...so similiar, while Schache has been 82% in both relevant games he has played this year.

I too think there is a spot for Sweet with what he offers in the ruck, but I'm betting that seeing as we only need him there for 25-30% of the game then he is being assessed on what he offers in the other role he is given. I am hardly inspired by what Cordy offers there, and would be happy to see Sweet get a real shot at it, but completely expect the MC is dissatisfied with what Sweet has been putting up in that role.

If Sweet is going to be selected over other options it has to be based on what strengths he offers us, which is his ruckwork. Until we show that we are interested in giving him more than the leftovers in the ruck role then he is being assessed on his performance as a forward unfortunately for him.

[GVGjr]

You must be doing something right though, in all my time posting of woof I don't believe that anyone has had the pleasure of GVGjr giving them a nickname!

And it was said with genuine love.

[GVGjr]

Brisbane are still doing that. Playing Darcy Fort.
It's working OK for them as well. I don't think we need to do that too often though.
I'd prefer to find someone capable of giving English a chop out 5 to 7 mins per quarter.
I think Cordy struggles to be competitive enough week after week and Schache has the mobility and athleticism but perhaps not vigor to do the role. I'd prefer to leave Bruce forward as well.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

True, although that means it becomes really important that those bottom 6 or so players can perform their role really well and are not liabilities elsewhere.

Agree, but we're clutching at straws if we think Cordy and Schache aren't liabilities. Cordy isn't an attacking threat, he's a poor defender and he can't ruck. His only drawcard is an appetite to compete but at the elite level I want more than that.

I've supported Schache for a while, but let's cut our losses. He isn't making it - he's an emergency in case of injury at best.


Sweets gametime in the ruck is adequate, his tapwork is good but he is giving us very little outside of the ruck contest. but realistically he is getting at most 40% gametime in the ruck (probably less, English has minimum 80% gametime every week and almost all of it would be in the ruck), and thus needs to spend another 40-60% of the game performing a role elsewhere. Thus far he has offered very little in the forward role (and while I don't think Cordy is great there either i do think he has shown he can neutralise contests and "play his role").

On top of that his ability to runout games has been poor, he was noticably fatigued for basically the entire second half against Gold Coast and was largely unsighted outside of ruck contests against West Coast. If you're gonna have a role player who doesn't offer as much as others then you atleast don't want to have to worry about them running the game out.

For comparism Cordy does seems to register underneath 75% gametime most weeks...so similiar, while Schache has been 82% in both relevant games he has played this year.

I too think there is a spot for Sweet with what he offers in the ruck, but I'm betting that seeing as we only need him there for 25-30% of the game then he is being assessed on what he offers in the other role he is given. I am hardly inspired by what Cordy offers there, and would be happy to see Sweet get a real shot at it, but completely expect the MC is dissatisfied with what Sweet has been putting up in that role.

If Sweet is going to be selected over other options it has to be based on what strengths he offers us, which is his ruckwork. Until we show that we are interested in giving him more than the leftovers in the ruck role then he is being assessed on his performance as a forward unfortunately for him.

I agree in terms of what we think the MC will do.

I can understand the reasoning, but for a contending team I think we should be invested into exploiting any possible strengths (i.e. a ruck advantage to serve our mids), rather than worrying about flexibility.

Cordy and Schache can play more positions, but I'd argue both shouldn't be on an AFL list post 2022 and at best we are hoping they can neutralise an opponent. Both of these players have been given ample opportunity and have delivered very little, so even if it doesn't work out, I'd prefer we invest time in Sweet and see if we can eek out a similar contest forward of centre but yield much better returns in the ruck.

Agree on Sweet's fitness, but Cordy was destroyed as the second ruck vs GC and that played a big part in why GC kept getting back in the game - particularly in that second/third quarter.

[1eyedog]

I'm ok with Sweet being played with English, at least in front of Zaine. He'll be far more valuable to us with games under his belt if English goes down than what Zaine will be if we lose another key position player. I mean, at least we'll have Schache, right?

[bornadog]

Agree on Sweet's fitness, but Cordy was destroyed as the second ruck vs GC and that played a big part in why GC kept getting back in the game - particularly in that second/third quarter.

Forgetting about list management, and players we don't have, what is your solution for tomorrow and the rest of the season for the 2nd ruck role? For me, it can't be Hannan, or Dunkley, or any other mid.

[1eyedog]

Unfortunately, Sweet can only contribute at the stoppage and this represents a liability when he is playing second fiddle to English.

If he could develop to be any threat forward this would change.

With rotations we can't really afford to have a player limited to contributing for about 20-25% game time.

You mean like Zaine Cordy?

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Forgetting about list management, and players we don't have, what is your solution for tomorrow and the rest of the season for the 2nd ruck role? For me, it can't be Hannan, or Dunkley, or any other mid.

For mine, I think we do whatever it takes to give our midfield an advantage at ALL times. Play to your strengths. That's the only way we compete at the top end and potentially win the flag. If we were so hellbent on "flexibility", why bother getting Treloar? We got him to exploit a clear strength further. I liked that. Exploit. your. strengths. I can live with losing in that manner.

That means no Cordy, no Schache, no Hannan, no Dunkley as second ruck. It doesn't work. That is a KNOWN. Move on from this tactic.

My first preference is we play the English/Sweet combination. I 'get' all the calls about Sweet, but if he's on the list and has been on the list all this time, it's about time we figure out if he's worth persisting with. He obviously isn't taking over Tim, so let's see how we can make it work with him as the second ruck/forward. The reality is our other options are contributing next to nothing in any position on the ground (Cordy and Schache) and Martin is finished.

If Sweet needs to be somewhat managed at times, fine. But let's give our players some confidence in a structure - THIS is what we are, THIS is our identity.

At the end of the year if we're still worried about Sweet and the second ruck position, ADDRESS IT. But until then, let's see if we can get an advantage because the reality is that if our midfield wins the battle OR breaks even, we win most games we play.

[josie]

Well said TBB. However if they bring in another tall player I hope the give Schache another go. His efforts in the VFL have been better. And he has flexibility to play multiple roles for us.

[Bulldog Joe]

You mean like Zaine Cordy?

Cordy does provide some pressure presence and is better without the ball than Sweet.

My preference is Schache for this week as he can get a goal and had the best performance of the options last week.

[1eyedog]

Cordy does provide some pressure presence and is better without the ball than Sweet.

My preference is Schache for this week as he can get a goal and had the best performance of the options last week.

Schache was really showing something in the key back role last season but he had a howler and was dropped. He also went forward a few times and hit the scoreboard. I thought Bevo liked flexibility and I'm surprised he hasn't been given more opportunities.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Schache was really showing something in the key back role last season but he had a howler and was dropped. He also went forward a few times and hit the scoreboard. I thought Bevo liked flexibility and I'm surprised he hasn't been given more opportunities.

Schache more than other players would benefit from playing in a winning team perhaps, give him confidence that he can have a crack.

[GVGjr]

Schache more than other players would benefit from playing in a winning team perhaps, give him confidence that he can have a crack.

This is a good point, we have tended to drop him on the back of one poor performance, If possible an extended run might be the right tonic for him.

[Danjul]

This is a good point, we have tended to drop him on the back of one poor performance, If possible an extended run might be the right tonic for him.
Last time we dropped him was on the back of a good performance, on the back line for half then the forward line for 2 goals.

We drop Schache because we can. Don’t need a reason.

[angelopetraglia]

From the Bevo presser a few take outs:

-I don't think Marra will play. When asked about Marra Bevo said that it is difficult to change the team this week. He said there are many things that some players are doing which contribute to the team success but not necessarily the stat sheet.

-Baz is fit and firing and will definitely come in. He also said that the club has currently had a good run with illness, all clear.

-He mentioned it was the first time that Sweet and English had played together where English was the primary ruck and Sweet was the back up and had to pinch hit forward. He said Jordan had been solid in the ruck for the last two weeks so it is a good sign if Tim isn't available that Sweety can fill a role. That gave me the imporession that Sweet is not playing this week.

-Bevo also mentioned that JJ only played 75% of the game in the VFL and needs to get through a full game at state level before he can be considered.

[Jeanette54]

I've just watched an old Dogs v Cats game on Fox, and the Cats seemed to have great difficulty matching up on Josh Schache. He kicked multiple goals, and was a great contributor to our win. It was the game where Harry Taylor missed a set shot after the siren to give us the win.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

I've just watched an old Dogs v Cats game on Fox, and the Cats seemed to have great difficulty matching up on Josh Schache. He kicked multiple goals, and was a great contributor to our win. It was the game where Harry Taylor missed a set shot after the siren to give us the win.

With angelopetraglia suggesting no Marra maybe Josh gets a go but angelopetraglia reporting bevo saying 'difficult to change the team' yet Sweet likely out...hmm

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Bevo could be foxing when q? about Marra 'difficult to change the team'.
If Sweet out surely a biggie forward comes in Marra/Loveshack.

[bornadog]

Following on from the press conference, I can see only Baz coming in.

But, who goes out? Maybe McComb

[1eyedog]

Following on from the press conference, I can see only Baz coming in.

But, who goes out? Maybe McComb

Marra was training in the super domestique guernsey this week he's a lock.

[angelopetraglia]

Marra was training in the super domestique guernsey this week he's a lock.

So was West. Which I found unsual. Is there a domestique for the VFL and AFL each week?

[MrMahatma]

Out Sweet, in Baz. Buku will play 2nd ruck I reckon.

[azabob]

ROUND 12 TEAM
Western Bulldogs v Geelong
Friday 3 June, 7.50pm AEST
Marvel Stadium

B: Ed Richards, Ryan Gardner, Tim O’Brien
HB: Caleb Daniel, Alex Keath, Bailey Dale
C: Bailey Williams, Jack Macrae, Anthony Scott
HF: Bailey Smith, Buku Khamis, Tom Liberatore
F: Marcus Bontempelli, Aaron Naughton, Cody Weightman
R: Tim English, Josh Dunkley, Adam Treloar
Int: Rhylee West, Taylor Duryea, Robbie McComb, Lachlan McNeil
Emer: Luke Cleary, Mitch Wallis, Dom Bedendo, Jordon Sweet

In: Bailey Smith
Out: Jordon Sweet (omitted), Luke Cleary (medi-sub)

[azabob]

Out Sweet, in Baz. Buku will play 2nd ruck I reckon.

Can you now tell me tonight’s powerball numbers?

[DOG GOD]

ROUND 12 TEAM
Western Bulldogs v Geelong
Friday 3 June, 7.50pm AEST
Marvel Stadium

B: Ed Richards, Ryan Gardner, Tim O’Brien
HB: Caleb Daniel, Alex Keath, Bailey Dale
C: Bailey Williams, Jack Macrae, Anthony Scott
HF: Bailey Smith, Buku Khamis, Tom Liberatore
F: Marcus Bontempelli, Aaron Naughton, Cody Weightman
R: Tim English, Josh Dunkley, Adam Treloar
Int: Rhylee West, Taylor Duryea, Robbie McComb, Lachlan McNeil
Emer: Luke Cleary, Mitch Wallis, Dom Bedendo, Jordon Sweet

In: Bailey Smith
Out: Jordon Sweet (omitted), Luke Cleary (medi-sub)

What a joke,
So if English gets concussed 3 mins in, we have either Gardner, O’Brien or Khamis rucking the game. Laughable. Why am I not surprised.

[whythelongface]

What a joke,
So if English gets concussed 3 mins in, we have either Gardner, O’Brien or Khamis rucking the game. Laughable. Why am I not surprised.

I am actually ok with the Sweet omission. Doesn’t offer much around the ground. No doubt there is an element of risk if the scenario pans out with an early English injury but on the flip side we are a much more mobile team without Sweet. This should play to our strengths.

[G-Mo77]

Joke, absolute joke. Who backs up ruck now? A guy who has played a handful of games? Bont again? Why are people so accepting of this? It's ridiculous!!

[1eyedog]

What a joke,
So if English gets concussed 3 mins in, we have either Gardner, O’Brien or Khamis rucking the game. Laughable. Why am I not surprised.

Sweet may be sub but that would be weird too as he offers zero versatility.

[kruder]

I was keen to see Sweet live I really rate his tap work. I’m not sure what the stats say but feel wise his taps make our mids more likely to exit front of the stoppage than back/sideways.

We are getting closer to a best 22 the side is looking much better on paper, liking the stability in defence for once.

I fffkn hate Geelong! I want this one badly!!!!!

[Bullies]

Joke, absolute joke. Who backs up ruck now? A guy who has played a handful of games? Bont again? Why are people so accepting of this? It's ridiculous!! Agree. Sweet might not get much of it around the ground but he certainly gives us a good look with his taps. Certainly makes up for the lack of possessions. Not sure how he supposed to get any confidence. The only way ruckman learn is keep playing them against the best. (See Tim English). Our mids must have loved the past couple of weeks. Yet we play Khamis who looks so far off it.

[Happy Days]

What a joke,
So if English gets concussed 3 mins in, we have either Gardner, O’Brien or Khamis rucking the game. Laughable. Why am I not surprised.

Yeah but what if we picked Sweet and then English doesn’t get concussed and then Sweet gets 3-5 possessions and doesn’t impact the game even slightly?

Because I’ve never seen your hypothetical but I’ve seen mine a bunch of times.

[Before I Die]

I’m happy with the team selected. If English does get injured, big if, we have demonstrated we can still win the clearances whoever is rucking. If we play Sweet we effectively free up Stewart and he then tears us apart.

This supposed ruck crisis is a furphy. We are second for clearances. Clearances are not an issue, therefor hit outs are not an issue, regardless of where we sit on the hit outs ladder. Currently Sweet offers us nothing we need and at the moment we are fighting for a place in the eight. This is not the time to play a liability in the hope that it will hasten his development.

[hujsh]

Joke, absolute joke. Who backs up ruck now? A guy who has played a handful of games? Bont again? Why are people so accepting of this? It's ridiculous!!

Storm Whitten Oval! Stop the stolen team selection!

[bornadog]

I’m happy with the team selected. If English does get injured, big if, we have demonstrated we can still win the clearances whoever is rucking. If we play Sweet we effectively free up Stewart and he then tears us apart.

This supposed ruck crisis is a furphy. We are second for clearances. Clearances are not an issue, therefor hit outs are not an issue, regardless of where we sit on the hit outs ladder. Currently Sweet offers us nothing we need and at the moment we are fighting for a place in the eight. This is not the time to play a liability in the hope that it will hasten his development.

Completely agree. Sweet had his chance last week to impact the game around the ground and playing up forward but didn’t. That was against a week WC

[Testekill]

I’m happy with the team selected. If English does get injured, big if, we have demonstrated we can still win the clearances whoever is rucking. If we play Sweet we effectively free up Stewart and he then tears us apart.

This supposed ruck crisis is a furphy. We are second for clearances. Clearances are not an issue, therefor hit outs are not an issue, regardless of where we sit on the hit outs ladder. Currently Sweet offers us nothing we need and at the moment we are fighting for a place in the eight. This is not the time to play a liability in the hope that it will hasten his development.

Either way Stewart is getting freed up. De Koning will take Naughton, Kolodjashni will take Buku and Blicavs will take Bontempelli/Dunkley.

[1eyedog]

Thought we might try to stretch them down back with Marra in. So when Buku rucks we have Naughton as our sole target again. Hopefully get an even spread of goal kickers through the midfield.
How much match time can English spend in the ruck? 75%? That 25% is legit our danger zone. Happens every time.

[G-Mo77]

Thought we might try to stretch them down back with Marra in. So when Buku rucks we have Naughton as our sole target again. Hopefully get an even spread of goal kickers through the midfield.
How much match time can English spend in the ruck? 75%? That 25% is legit our danger zone. Happens every time.

Bingo! Schache should have came in IMO but he's one of those guys who is one and done.

[bornadog]

Thought we might try to stretch them down back with Marra in. So when Buku rucks we have Naughton as our sole target again. Hopefully get an even spread of goal kickers through the midfield.
How much match time can English spend in the ruck? 75%? That 25% is legit our danger zone. Happens every time.

Won't English rest up forward some of the 25%

[G-Mo77]

Won't English rest up forward some of the 25%

Hopefully but don't recall seeing him that much there last week.

[azabob]

Won't English rest up forward some of the 25%

I would’ve thought if English is not rucking he is on the bench.

[MrMahatma]

Hopefully but don't recall seeing him that much there last week.

Diff team and diff balance.

We’re getting much closer to best 22.
Bruce, Hunter and JJ are the ones that I’d have in, and then our depth is back with those last few spots being fought out between blokes who are either experienced or in form.

[WBFC4FFC]

Joke, absolute joke. Who backs up ruck now? A guy who has played a handful of games? Bont again? Why are people so accepting of this? It's ridiculous!!

I know what you mean but the Hand-Bags Rucks are never their strength.

If Bevo was ever going to try and get away with bugger-all second ruck options, this is the game. (Not that you would have to ask Bevo twice for such a match-up in the middle).

[DOG GOD]

Yeah but what if we picked Sweet and then English doesn’t get concussed and then Sweet gets 3-5 possessions and doesn’t impact the game even slightly?

Because I’ve never seen your hypothetical but I’ve seen mine a bunch of times.

Sweet wouldn’t be the first player to get 3-5 possessions and not impact the game.

[bornadog]

For those wondering why Scott holds his spot:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FUPWf3pUEAEjTTS?format=jpg&name=medium

[Bulldog4life]

Storm Whitten Oval! Stop the stolen team selection!

Thanks Donald.

[whythelongface]

Joke, absolute joke. Who backs up ruck now? A guy who has played a handful of games? Bont again? Why are people so accepting of this? It's ridiculous!!

Interesting take. Accepting. Not necessarily. Realistic. Yes. If we are hanging our hat on Sweet be anything than a tap ruckman then we are desperate. A good tap to advantage can be important but it is not offset by the lack of ability in other key areas. As Before I Die stated we are 2nd in clearances. If the centre bounce can be negated then having a player like Buku around the ground will be more advantageous than a ruckman with little impact. Sure maybe Schache would be an option but to me Schache and Buku offer the same and maybe there is more upside with Buku.

In saying that I would love a Luke Jackson but we don’t so we make do with a more flexible approach and hope like hell our mids can dominate. Hopefully English goes forward and takes Stewart out of the equation.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

What a joke,
So if English gets concussed 3 mins in, we have either Gardner, O’Brien or Khamis rucking the game. Laughable. Why am I not surprised.

Because you haven't seen the final scoreboard yet.
Then you will be pleasantly surprised, as you must often be with your armour of doubt.
Why will English be concussed?
Your Nostradamus is a scaredy cat.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Bevo true to his word that hard to change the winning side, Smith can only be an improvement on Sweet.
English now big enough to shoulder the ruck and some Dempsey like.

[Dry Rot]

Rohan back for the Cats.

Dogs win.

Who are we playing after the bye?

[1eyedog]

Won't English rest up forward some of the 25%

Not sure thought he'd be on the pine for most of it?

[1eyedog]

Rohan back for the Cats.

Dogs win.

Who are we playing after the bye?

Giants up there then Hawks at home.

[boydogs]

Unfortunately, Sweet can only contribute at the stoppage and this represents a liability when he is playing second fiddle to English.

If he could develop to be any threat forward this would change.

With rotations we can't really afford to have a player limited to contributing for about 20-25% game time.

When our tall forwards are just blocking and dummy leading for Naughton, and bringing the ball to ground, picking one who can be a strong forward line ruck and give a significant chopout to English whilst giving us an advantage when the 2nd rucks are in, makes sense to me

The MC see it differently, but then they picked the side that lost the GF due to clean centre clearances from the opposition's 2nd ruck. Under 6-6-6, makeshift rucks are too risky

[jeemak]

When our tall forwards are just blocking and dummy leading for Naughton, and bringing the ball to ground, picking one who can be a strong forward line ruck and give a significant chopout to English whilst giving us an advantage when the 2nd rucks are in, makes sense to me

The MC see it differently, but then they picked the side that lost the GF due to clean centre clearances from the opposition's 2nd ruck. Under 6-6-6, makeshift rucks are too risky

If you re-watched the Grand Final and thought anything that happened during that perverted mess could have been fixed by having Jordan Sweet on the field then.........I actually don't know how to finish that sentence.

I really don't get the passion one way or another on this particular selection area, when it's clear that if we rock up and play a committed game and our midfielders don't phone in effort, and our forwards run both ways we can compete better than most.

The ruck situation is a side show.

[jeemak]

And by side show I mean it's the easiest of easy things to point to when we are looking for an excuse as to why things aren't going as we might like, and the most ambiguous to measure in terms of impact on a result.

It's perfect forum fodder, and that's fine. But it's off the mark.

We have the talent across the ground to compete. We have players rotating through the middle who if they play for each other we can do better than compete. Our forwards if they run each way and pressure to lock the ball into our scoring zone will get opportunities and we can compete. Doing that and creating dirty ball for opposition forwards brings our backline into the game rather than defending it, and they can compete.

It's simple, and it's effort and mindset based. Whoever is the second ruck is irrelevant, mostly, just like Jackson would have been in the Grand Final if our midfielders had the right mindset and competed the right way.

[GVGjr]

Joke, absolute joke. Who backs up ruck now? A guy who has played a handful of games? Bont again? Why are people so accepting of this? It's ridiculous!!

Bevo gets a bit of a pass from so many of our supporters because of injury considerations (Bruce) and then he gets some pats on the back because he is seen as a creative problem solver. It's all by design and not that it was necessarily a last resort option.

The Bont, Naughton and Hannan type chop outs and now potentially Khamis just aren't good options. I get that Cordy isn't a good enough forward and Schache is a laconic type that might frustrate the MC but surely it's preferable to have one of them giving English a chop out and doing a defensive role up forward?

[whythelongface]

Bevo gets a bit of a pass from so many of our supporters because of injury considerations (Bruce) and then he gets some pats on the back because he is seen as a creative problem solver. It's all by design and not that it was necessarily a last resort option.

The Bont, Naughton and Hannan type chop outs and now potentially Khamis just aren't good options. I get that Cordy isn't a good enough forward and Schache is a laconic type that might frustrate the MC but surely it's preferable to have one of them giving English a chop out and doing a defensive role up forward?

But that is one of the beauties about Bevo is that he tries the unexpected. This creativity has a) won us a GF and b)got us into another GF. Sure there have been patches in between that have been horrible and clearly not worked. There are also reasons, unbeknownst to us, as to why he hasn’t chased hard after another experienced ruck (apart from Martin). He obviously has faith in our midfield where the game is clearly won or lost and therefore may see a 2nd ruck (unless they are similar to English around the ground eg. Jackson) as a liability.

Whilst I personally would like to see Schache back in there are attributes that he has that Bevo clearly thinks are lacking in this area. As for Zaine well we all know what the outcry would be if he was selected as our 2nd ruck. Thus happy to go with one of the other options to see how they work whether it be Buku or Gardner.

Think Jeemak has summed it up well.

[comrade]

But that is one of the beauties about Bevo is that he tries the unexpected. This creativity has a) won us a GF and b)got us into another GF. Sure there have been patches in between that have been horrible and clearly not worked. There are also reasons, unbeknownst to us, as to why he hasn’t chased hard after another experienced ruck (apart from Martin). He obviously has faith in our midfield where the game is clearly won or lost and therefore may see a 2nd ruck (unless they are similar to English around the ground eg. Jackson) as a liability.

Whilst I personally would like to see Schache back in there are attributes that he has that Bevo clearly thinks are lacking in this area. As for Zaine well we all know what the outcry would be if he was selected as our 2nd ruck. Thus happy to go with one of the other options to see how they work whether it be Buku or Gardner.

Think Jeemak has summed it up well.

We’ll obviously always be eternally grateful for 2016 (which funnily enough, featured a genuine 2nd ruck/forward option who ended up being the difference…go figure!).

But we’ve never ended a home and away season entrenched as a top 4 side (obviously last year it should have happened but for some late season implosion) and have been too boom or bust for my liking. It’s bloody great when it works and things are going our way (there’s a reason Bevo has coached 25% of the club’s 100 point wins - we feast on poor teams where our overall talent is significantly better), but why haven’t we consistently won enough games to finish at the really pointy end during H&A under Bevo?

I’d love to have some data to back me up but a) I suck at quantitative analysis, b) the numbers may actually prove me wrong and c) I barely have time to watch us at the moment, let alone scour through stats just to convince some other lunatics on a footy forum that I am right….BUT

I believe our lack of a proper ‘footy structure’ or our preference for a less traditional team make up has been a significant factor in it. Too many mids to fit in, not enough height and marking power in defence, lack of genuine forward talent (is this why our conversion rate is so poor?), a complete disregard for the ruck role.

You can only play what’s on your list of course, but these issues have been present for years.

Yes, work rate is a non-negotiable, yes, the game is generally won by the better, hard working midfield. But the differences between the best teams are small and proper structure (basically, what I consider the right type of players in the right positions) matters and can give you an edge. Structure hedges risk and helps you compete and have a better chance of winning when it isn’t all going our way. I’d happily take smaller, more boring wins against crap teams if it meant we won more games overall.

[The Underdog]

Rohan back for the Cats.

Dogs win.

Who are we playing after the bye?

Up to the crowd to create a finals like atmosphere to neutralise him.


Giants up there then Hawks at home.

You don’t want to look at what happens after that. I did and then started investigating possible top 10 draft options

[MrMahatma]

We’ll obviously always be eternally grateful for 2016 (which funnily enough, featured a genuine 2nd ruck/forward option who ended up being the difference…go figure!).

But we’ve never ended a home and away season entrenched as a top 4 side (obviously last year it should have happened but for some late season implosion) and have been too boom or bust for my liking. It’s bloody great when it works and things are going our way (there’s a reason Bevo has coached 25% of the club’s 100 point wins - we feast on poor teams where our overall talent is significantly better), but why haven’t we consistently won enough games to finish at the really pointy end during H&A under Bevo?

I’d love to have some data to back me up but a) I suck at quantitative analysis, b) the numbers may actually prove me wrong and c) I barely have time to watch us at the moment, let alone scour through stats just to convince some other lunatics on a footy forum that I am right….BUT

I believe our lack of a proper ‘footy structure’ or our preference for a less traditional team make up has been a significant factor in it. Too many mids to fit in, not enough height and marking power in defence, lack of genuine forward talent (is this why our conversion rate is so poor?), a complete disregard for the ruck role.

You can only play what’s on your list of course, but these issues have been present for years.

Yes, work rate is a non-negotiable, yes, the game is generally won by the better, hard working midfield. But the differences between the best teams are small and proper structure (basically, what I consider the right type of players in the right positions) matters and can give you an edge. Structure hedges risk and helps you compete and have a better chance of winning when it isn’t all going our way. I’d happily take smaller, more boring wins against crap teams if it meant we won more games overall.

What’s untraditional about our structure?

2 tall backs (3 if you include OBrien)
Ruck
2 tall forwards (I think we’ve certainly tried genuine talls and Buku kinda counts)

No genuine 2nd ruck is actually the only structural thing diff I guess. We do play blokes somewhat out of position (EG: Libba in the F50) but that’s not structure as I see it.

[GVGjr]

But that is one of the beauties about Bevo is that he tries the unexpected. This creativity has a) won us a GF and b)got us into another GF. Sure there have been patches in between that have been horrible and clearly not worked. There are also reasons, unbeknownst to us, as to why he hasn’t chased hard after another experienced ruck (apart from Martin). He obviously has faith in our midfield where the game is clearly won or lost and therefore may see a 2nd ruck (unless they are similar to English around the ground eg. Jackson) as a liability.

Whilst I personally would like to see Schache back in there are attributes that he has that Bevo clearly thinks are lacking in this area. As for Zaine well we all know what the outcry would be if he was selected as our 2nd ruck. Thus happy to go with one of the other options to see how they work whether it be Buku or Gardner.

Think Jeemak has summed it up well.

I don't disagree that Bevo is a good and innovative coach but having the likes of Bont, Naughton, Hannan and now potentially Gardner and Khamis as chop out options in the ruck isn't innovative when really it's a more of a reflection of how we see the position.

[Grantysghost]

We’ll obviously always be eternally grateful for 2016 (which funnily enough, featured a genuine 2nd ruck/forward option who ended up being the difference…go figure!).

But we’ve never ended a home and away season entrenched as a top 4 side (obviously last year it should have happened but for some late season implosion) and have been too boom or bust for my liking. It’s bloody great when it works and things are going our way (there’s a reason Bevo has coached 25% of the club’s 100 point wins - we feast on poor teams where our overall talent is significantly better), but why haven’t we consistently won enough games to finish at the really pointy end during H&A under Bevo?

I’d love to have some data to back me up but a) I suck at quantitative analysis, b) the numbers may actually prove me wrong and c) I barely have time to watch us at the moment, let alone scour through stats just to convince some other lunatics on a footy forum that I am right….BUT

I believe our lack of a proper ‘footy structure’ or our preference for a less traditional team make up has been a significant factor in it. Too many mids to fit in, not enough height and marking power in defence, lack of genuine forward talent (is this why our conversion rate is so poor?), a complete disregard for the ruck role.

You can only play what’s on your list of course, but these issues have been present for years.

Yes, work rate is a non-negotiable, yes, the game is generally won by the better, hard working midfield. But the differences between the best teams are small and proper structure (basically, what I consider the right type of players in the right positions) matters and can give you an edge. Structure hedges risk and helps you compete and have a better chance of winning when it isn’t all going our way. I’d happily take smaller, more boring wins against crap teams if it meant we won more games overall.

If Voss gets that Carlton side to a top 4 spot in his first year I’ll spew up!

Agree with this Comrade we have an exceptional list and you win flags from top 4. There’s no surprise only 2? have won from outside since the top 8 and we are the only ones since we changed from the old McIntyre system. (The other the crows in 98 who lost in wk1 and then won the flag from 5th!).

[bornadog]

What’s untraditional about our structure?

2 tall backs (3 if you include OBrien)
Ruck
2 tall forwards (I think we’ve certainly tried genuine talls and Buku kinda counts)

No genuine 2nd ruck is actually the only structural thing diff I guess. We do play blokes somewhat out of position (EG: Libba in the F50) but that’s not structure as I see it.

I am with you Mr M, I don't see any structural issues in the way we set up. Whether the players are good enough to go all the way is another matter.

For those thinking our backline is fragile, we are once more one of the hardest to score against (7th), and could have been better if Keath didn't miss half of the first half of the season. As for scoring, well we are the 4th highest for scoring.

As long as we are winning the clearances, who cares about the rucks, especially 2nd ruck.

[Axe Man]

If you re-watched the Grand Final and thought anything that happened during that perverted mess could have been fixed by having Jordan Sweet on the field then.........I actually don't know how to finish that sentence.

I really don't get the passion one way or another on this particular selection area, when it's clear that if we rock up and play a committed game and our midfielders don't phone in effort, and our forwards run both ways we can compete better than most.

The ruck situation is a side show.

Completely agree. I don't get the angst because to me there is no clear correct answer. There are pros and cons to playing a second ruck like Sweet or going one out with English. It is only one of a number of factors that will decide this game and I don't think it's near to top for importance.

[azabob]

I'm thinking O'Brien will be our 2nd ruck.

Khamis doesn't have the fitness base or conditioning to play second tall forward and chop out in the ruck.

Stanley and Blicavas maybe not great ruckman but they are seasoned bodies and use to the crash and bash nature of ruckwork.

[bornadog]

I'm thinking O'Brien will be our 2nd ruck.

Khamis doesn't have the fitness base or conditioning to play second tall forward and chop out in the ruck.

Stanley and Blicavas maybe not great ruckman but they are seasoned bodies and use to the crash and bash nature of ruckwork.

Has O'Brien rucked before?

[soupman]

Has O'Brien rucked before?

Yes.

2017 averaged about 5 hitouts a game topping out at 8, and the next years he spent at Hawthorn would record at least 1 in maybe half his games.

[azabob]

Has O'Brien rucked before?

Has Khamis other than his 3 part time VFL outings?

[Axe Man]

I'm thinking O'Brien will be our 2nd ruck.

Khamis doesn't have the fitness base or conditioning to play second tall forward and chop out in the ruck.

Stanley and Blicavas maybe not great ruckman but they are seasoned bodies and use to the crash and bash nature of ruckwork.

I guess that makes sense with Geelong just having the 2 tall forwards. Richards should be able to matchup on the next tallest in Rohan if O'Brien isn't down there.

[azabob]

I guess that makes sense with Geelong just having the 2 tall forwards. Richards should be able to matchup on the next tallest in Rohan if O'Brien isn't down there.

Ok, if it makes sense we can rule out O'Brien rucking.

[MrMahatma]

Match will be over at 3 qtr time when we're 10 goals up so Chilli can spend the full last qtr on the bench and get his 75% game time.

Caleb can ruck. We're gonna win.

[Grantysghost]

I am with you Mr M, I don't see any structural issues in the way we set up. Whether the players are good enough to go all the way is another matter.

For those thinking our backline is fragile, we are once more one of the hardest to score against (7th), and could have been better if Keath didn't miss half of the first half of the season. As for scoring, well we are the 4th highest for scoring.

As long as we are winning the clearances, who cares about the rucks, especially 2nd ruck.

Well I guess we have to beat teams like Melbourne so I kind of care :)

Structurally we are ok, we just lack personnel in some key areas.

Ruckwise, English is coming on so well I'm ok with a part time second. But then I think about Melbourne and worry again !

[Happy Days]

I don’t like affecting the structure of the back six for ruck relief, particularly when O’Brien doesn’t really offer anything that Buku doesn’t.

He’s a frankly brutal decision maker with the ball but O’Brien’s intercept game is way better than I was expecting it to be. He’s gonna be critical to helping Keath and Gards and I don’t want him anywhere near a ruck contest.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

And by side show I mean it's the easiest of easy things to point to when we are looking for an excuse as to why things aren't going as we might like, and the most ambiguous to measure in terms of impact on a result.

It's perfect forum fodder, and that's fine. But it's off the mark.

We have the talent across the ground to compete. We have players rotating through the middle who if they play for each other we can do better than compete. Our forwards if they run each way and pressure to lock the ball into our scoring zone will get opportunities and we can compete. Doing that and creating dirty ball for opposition forwards brings our backline into the game rather than defending it, and they can compete.

It's simple, and it's effort and mindset based. Whoever is the second ruck is irrelevant, mostly, just like Jackson would have been in the Grand Final if our midfielders had the right mindset and competed the right way.

I get what you are saying jee, but that's a little tongue in cheek.

Any side or individual that has won anything, ever, has had the right 'mindset' so that's a given, but you can't discount structure and personnel particularly in a team based sport.

You are right that it's hard to measure in a lot of ways but I disagree that 'whoever is second ruck is irrelevant' - there's a flow on effect from every position and player on the ground, the second ruck position CAN be important. We just don't value it, but that doesn't make it right.

[whythelongface]

I don't disagree that Bevo is a good and innovative coach but having the likes of Bont, Naughton, Hannan and now potentially Gardner and Khamis as chop out options in the ruck isn't innovative when really it's a more of a reflection of how we see the position.

Agree with what you are saying that it isn’t innovative. BTW don’t think I mentioned innovative more along the lines of creative by at least trying something with other players. He could just go for the stock standard 2nd ruckman option but doesn’t see this as a good fit for this game. Hence his use of another player to be the chop out ruck.

[Rocco Jones]

I’m with Bevo/MC here. When looking at the balance of what we have and Cats bring, I think going tall down back and a focus on mobility elsewhere is the right way to go.


- We have selected 3 KPDs with complimentary skill sets up against Tomahawk + Cameron

- Cats have Stanley + Blicavs in ruck. Both more mobile types. Of course I’d like the best pure ruck in tandem with English but as I’ll explain in next point, it comes at too big a price when they go forward.

- The Cats have Stewart as the stand out intercept player in the league. SDK has been elite-ish as an interceptor as well this season. Blicavs goes back too. Sweet, Marra and Schache have their strengths but they all struggle to consistently get to and be competitive in forward marking contests.

Scott, McNeill, Naughts, Dunks, Bont, Khamis and Cody I feel give up the best combo of danger, pressure and limiting weak chains with uncontested intercept marks. Would I prefer them to be taller? No doubt at all but our fringe tall guys biggest weakness is fodder for Cats biggest strength.

[Bulldog Revolution]

I don't disagree that Bevo is a good and innovative coach but having the likes of Bont, Naughton, Hannan and now potentially Gardner and Khamis as chop out options in the ruck isn't innovative when really it's a more of a reflection of how we see the position.

Is it not more about how he seems team balance?

He is going to play English in the ruck 70+% of the time so he'd rather have the running power and not carry someone as a backup ruck who cant make a contribution elsewhere?

The challenge for Sweet is to become more of a threat as a forward - which doesn't seem unachievable to me

[GVGjr]

Is it not more about how he seems team balance?

He is going to play English in the ruck 70+% of the time so he'd rather have the running power and not carry someone as a backup ruck who cant make a contribution elsewhere?

The challenge for Sweet is to become more of a threat as a forward - which doesn't seem unachievable to me

Dale Morris mentioned that Sweet was working on his forward craft. I think he's a chance to get there as a ruck option for us.

[Mantis]

I don’t like affecting the structure of the back six for ruck relief, particularly when O’Brien doesn’t really offer anything that Buku doesn’t.

He’s a frankly brutal decision maker with the ball but O’Brien’s intercept game is way better than I was expecting it to be. He’s gonna be critical to helping Keath and Gards and I don’t want him anywhere near a ruck contest.

I haven't really noticed O'Brien's decision making, but have noticed that he's a really good field kick... kicks it flat & hard likely B.Dale which is the polar opposite to the loopy kicks from defence we see from Zaine. Such a weapon when we are switching play or trying to hit up an open player.


Dale Morris mentioned that Sweet was working on his forward craft. I think he's a chance to get there as a ruck option for us.

Whilst he might be working on his forward craft it's still very much non-existent even when playing for Footscray in the VFL. He is very useful in ruck contests, but only having that to fall back on isn't enough to be an AFL player of any note.

[Axe Man]

Dale Morris mentioned that Sweet was working on his forward craft. I think he's a chance to get there as a ruck option for us.

Doesn't Dale live in Queensland and have nothing to do with footy these days?

[GVGjr]

Doesn't Dale live in Queensland and have nothing to do with footy these days?

Dale is back in Melbourne and has a non footy job. This was a call from him earlier in the year when he was still at the club.
He was very positive in the work Sweet had done in the off season and the progress he was making.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Khamis (or Marra) over Sweet is more palatable for me than Cordy or Schache.

It does mean it's an important game for Khamis, given he's been quiet for 2 weeks, we didn't bring Marra in and we dropped Sweet. He needs to play well.

[jeemak]

I get what you are saying jee, but that's a little tongue in cheek.

Any side or individual that has won anything, ever, has had the right 'mindset' so that's a given, but you can't discount structure and personnel particularly in a team based sport.

You are right that it's hard to measure in a lot of ways but I disagree that 'whoever is second ruck is irrelevant' - there's a flow on effect from every position and player on the ground, the second ruck position CAN be important. We just don't value it, but that doesn't make it right.

I absolutely want a second ruck who is competent. I've said numerous times it's the most difficult role to fill on a list, and it's made harder by what Bevo likely wants from one.

But given we don't have one who is competent, I think it's a bit of a side-show and I guess I didn't articulate that well in my rant.

[Happy Days]

I haven't really noticed O'Brien's decision making, but have noticed that he's a really good field kick... kicks it flat & hard likely B.Dale which is the polar opposite to the loopy kicks from defence we see from Zaine. Such a weapon when we are switching play or trying to hit up an open player..

Agree, which is why I made the distinction. I’ve been happy with his season but can also understand why Hawks supporters were so frustrated with him.

[Bullies]

Is it not more about how he seems team balance?

He is going to play English in the ruck 70+% of the time so he'd rather have the running power and not carry someone as a backup ruck who cant make a contribution elsewhere?

The challenge for Sweet is to become more of a threat as a forward - which doesn't seem unachievable to me What has Khamis contributed up forward in the past couple of weeks? He looks a long way off it.

At least with Sweet he provides good ball to our mids.

[hujsh]

What has Khamis contributed up forward in the past couple of weeks? He looks a long way off it.

At least with Sweet he provides good ball to our mids.

Not much vs GC but he did have 3 scoring shots last week. He didn't capitalise fully on his opportunities but he has shown he is a good shot at goal in the VFL so normally you'd back him in for 2 goals on that basis.

Not incredible in a 100 point smashing but certainly not nothing. He looks a forward and he's getting shots on goal and if we replace him for Sweet we're left with Naughton, Weightman and maybe Bont as forwards with any forward craft.

[bornadog]

Not much vs GC but he did have 3 scoring shots last week. He didn't capitalise fully on his opportunities but he has shown he is a good shot at goal in the VFL so normally you'd back him in for 2 goals on that basis.

Not incredible in a 100 point smashing but certainly not nothing. He looks a forward and he's getting shots on goal and if we replace him for Sweet we're left with Naughton, Weightman and maybe Bont as forwards with any forward craft.

He also does alot of the blocking and is a good decoy for Naughton. Wait till you see his ruck work tonight. :cool:

[G-Mo77]

Not much vs GC but he did have 3 scoring shots last week. He didn't capitalise fully on his opportunities but he has shown he is a good shot at goal in the VFL so normally you'd back him in for 2 goals on that basis.

Not incredible in a 100 point smashing but certainly not nothing. He looks a forward and he's getting shots on goal and if we replace him for Sweet we're left with Naughton, Weightman and maybe Bont as forwards with any forward craft.

He's close though IMO. His timing isn't quite there yet and once he gets a bit more weight behind him those leaps where he's getting moved slightly will straighten up and he'll have more control in the air. I like him, he's got a lot of tools to work with.

[GVGjr]

I really want a win tonight against a team that is always around the mark. Such an important game for us.

[MrMahatma]

He's close though IMO. His timing isn't quite there yet and once he gets a bit more weight behind him those leaps where he's getting moved slightly will straighten up and he'll have more control in the air. I like him, he's got a lot of tools to work with.

I agree. Reckon he has loads of upside and isn't far off kicking a few more. Tonight could be the night. Go Buku.

Also, my 8 year old daughter has him now as her fave. She loves him. 2nd is Bruce. Then English.

Go Buku!