Rory Lobb

[GVGjr]

The media speculation is still very strong that Fremantle will trade Lobb and we are in the box seat to take him
Lobb will give us a productive tall forward capable of kicking goals but also the luxury of knowing that when English is having a rest we will have a very competitive chop out to replace him.

How keen are you to get Rory Lobb to the club?
And if so, what is a reasonable pick to part with to get him?

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

The media speculation is still very strong that Fremantle will trade Lobb and we are in the box seat to take him
Lobb will give us a productive tall forward capable of kicking goals but also the luxury of knowing that when English is having a rest we will have a very competitive chop out to replace him.

How keen are you to get Rory Lobb to the club?
And if so, what is a reasonable pick to part with to get him?

I've said my thoughts on this a couple of times, so I'll keep it brief.
I get his skill set it what we need... I just cannot resile from the fact that he and about a dozen other Giants from the 2016 Prelim vintage are persona non grata as far as I'm concerned. Lobb is one of those.

[chef]

The media speculation is still very strong that Fremantle will trade Lobb and we are in the box seat to take him
Lobb will give us a productive tall forward capable of kicking goals but also the luxury of knowing that when English is having a rest we will have a very competitive chop out to replace him.

How keen are you to get Rory Lobb to the club?
And if so, what is a reasonable pick to part with to get him?

As long as it means playing Naughton back im very keen.

Hopefully we can get him for a 2nd rounder.

[bornadog]

I don't want to sell the farm to get him, so I voted a creative combination of picks.

[Mantis]

I get his skill set it what we need... I just cannot resile from the fact that he and about a dozen other Giants from the 2016 Prelim vintage are persona non grata as far as I'm concerned. Lobb is one of those.

Time to build a bridge...we won, they lost... happy days!

We need to add players to our team to help us win more than we are currently and Lobb helps in that regard.

[Vred]

Don't need him, Bruce will have a smashing pre-season and get back to 2021 form, his surplus to needs.

[bornadog]

Don't need him, Bruce will have a smashing pre-season and get back to 2021 form, his surplus to needs.

If English is injured, who rucks? I don't think we can rely just on Sweet who has a long way to go. Plus does Bruce do the relief rucking?

[Mantis]

Don't need him, Bruce will have a smashing pre-season and get back to 2021 form, his surplus to needs.

And if he (Bruce) doesn't?

I have absolutely no confidence that Bruce will get back to being a regular contributor for our team.

[Sedat]

I would be open to Lobb coming to the club (JUH and Darcy aren't yet ready to consistently impact up forward and Bruce is a question mark to say the least), but my preference is to trade English out while he is at his absolutely highest trade value and bring Grundy in, with Collingwood paying a portion of his salary. A Grundy/Lobb 1-2 punch is a much more potent mix than English/Lobb, who are both essentially the same player - underwhelming stoppage ruckmen but dangerous up forward. Alternatively, bring Grundy in and not Lobb, and sit English down and give him the truth of life that he will never be 'the man' for us in ruck, and that he needs to modify his game significantly to ensure his skill set better benefits the team.

I've posted this elsewhere but we have a critical and obvious area of weakness in our core ruck/stoppage set-up that has been repeatedly and ruthlessly exposed in big games in the last 3-4 years - I want our club to address this first before we tinker around the edges with 2nd ruck/forward. Lobb doesn't address the core ruck weakness (nor does English - a 4 year sample size is plenty big enough to make that assessment).

I am sick of seeing us lose in big games the exact same way, I hope the match committee is also finally sick of it because it has cost us so much already at the pointy end in the last few years.

[The Doctor]

I'm happy with Lobb coming in

There is no certainty Bruce will regain form. I say highly unlikely he will.

Schache? His future must be up in the air at the moment. I would retain him.

Jamarra & Darcy, still developing

Martin going

He helps out in the ruck where we have limited resources.

If he takes the place of one of these hybrid bad kicking midfielders that can't get a regular game then that has to improve us.

[Grantysghost]

Don't need him.

Inconsistent (granted this year has been very good) and we've got tall forwards coming through.

I don't think we are in the window that I thought we were so I believe the list has bigger issues that need addressing.

[GVGjr]

If English is injured, who rucks? I don't think we can rely just on Sweet who has a long way to go. Plus does Bruce do the relief rucking?

Isn't that a different question? We shouldn't be trading for Lobb to cover English he is more or less there to support him.
We will still need to find a back up ruckman to replace Martin.

[bornadog]

Isn't that a different question? We shouldn't be trading for Lobb to cover English he is more or less there to support him.
We will still need to find a back up ruckman to replace Martin.

We are on the same page

[bornadog]

my preference is to trade English out while he is at his absolutely highest trade value and bring Grundy in, with Collingwood paying a portion of his salary.

All sounds good but it won't be happening, so in the meantime we need another solution

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I would be open to Lobb coming to the club (JUH and Darcy aren't yet ready to consistently impact up forward and Bruce is a question mark to say the least), but my preference is to trade English out while he is at his absolutely highest trade value and bring Grundy in, with Collingwood paying a portion of his salary. A Grundy/Lobb 1-2 punch is a much more potent mix than English/Lobb, who are both essentially the same player - underwhelming stoppage ruckmen but dangerous up forward. Alternatively, bring Grundy in and not Lobb, and sit English down and give him the truth of life that he will never be 'the man' for us in ruck, and that he needs to modify his game significantly to ensure his skill set better benefits the team.

I've posted this elsewhere but we have a critical and obvious area of weakness in our core ruck/stoppage set-up that has been repeatedly and ruthlessly exposed in big games in the last 3-4 years - I want our club to address this first before we tinker around the edges with 2nd ruck/forward. Lobb doesn't address the core ruck weakness (nor does English - a 4 year sample size is plenty big enough to make that assessment).

I am sick of seeing us lose in big games the exact same way, I hope the match committee is also finally sick of it because it has cost us so much already at the pointy end in the last few years.

Great summation as always Sedat.

Pretty much where I am at with it all too, only query is if it is worth going after Lobb at 30 y.o if we aren't a serious contender? Things can and do change quickly, but I think we have too many holes in the list to contend next year.

Assuming Dunkley goes, would we be better placed to also lose JJ/Hunter types and go to the draft?

[Sedat]

Great summation as always Sedat.

Pretty much where I am at with it all too, only query is if it is worth going after Lobb at 30 y.o if we aren't a serious contender? Things can and do change quickly, but I think we have too many holes in the list to contend next year.

Assuming Dunkley goes, would we be better placed to also lose JJ/Hunter types and go to the draft?
Melbourne in 2021 was the best defensive team in the last 20 years and we smashed them 8 goals to 1 in the middle stages of a GF and looked for all the world like premiers. Freo are also an elite defensive team in 2022 and we completely obliterated them from the get-go and put a 7 goal gap in a final on hostile territory. Not many teams have the gears to do what we can, which is why I am bullish about our ability to contend if we get some fundamental areas properly addressed this off season - core ruck/stoppage, key defensive posts, overall defensive strategy, forward personnel mix.

The club also thinks we are in the window and have been for the last couple of years, which is good enough for me. I can accept the abject failure of 2022 if we are finally prepared to learn from our mistakes and properly fix our areas of concern. It won't be easy but if we do the work we can contend in 2023 and stay in contention for another 4-6 years. If we "get Lobb/Jones" and think we've done the work, we will be kidding ourselves (especially if we lose Dunkley).

[1eyedog]

I've said my thoughts on this a couple of times, so I'll keep it brief.
I get his skill set it what we need... I just cannot resile from the fact that he and about a dozen other Giants from the 2016 Prelim vintage are persona non grata as far as I'm concerned. Lobb is one of those.

Dude it was 6 years ago he was a kid I just think we need to move on from this as reason why we don't want him at the club.

I'm ok with Lobb coming in for a second rounder, we ain't going to get Grundy it would piss me no end that we'd pandered to English's whims about being the big dog and then pissed away four years developing him as ruckman only to bring Grundy in for 2-3 and trade English away. Bevo wouldn't do it either he'd need to admit he was wrong which imo is his biggest flaw. He just doesn't do it so we're stuck with English. Tim should be entering his sweet spot as a ruck over the next few years (25+) and we've just resigned him. He ain't going anywhere and he'll be rucking for at least the next two years. My feeling is Grundy would not even be in our calculations.

Re. Lobb give me a tall on our list at either end of the ground or on the list better than him.

Schache? Keath? Gardner? Cordy? Bruce? I'm not counting Darcy or Marra but clearly they're behind him. Naughton's ceiling is bigger but Lobb still kicked 36 goals this year and relief rucked.

It's an unfortunate truth but Lobb will just about be the best big man we have if he comes in and Power and Bevo know it.

[comrade]

I would be open to Lobb coming to the club (JUH and Darcy aren't yet ready to consistently impact up forward and Bruce is a question mark to say the least), but my preference is to trade English out while he is at his absolutely highest trade value and bring Grundy in, with Collingwood paying a portion of his salary. A Grundy/Lobb 1-2 punch is a much more potent mix than English/Lobb, who are both essentially the same player - underwhelming stoppage ruckmen but dangerous up forward. Alternatively, bring Grundy in and not Lobb, and sit English down and give him the truth of life that he will never be 'the man' for us in ruck, and that he needs to modify his game significantly to ensure his skill set better benefits the team.

I've posted this elsewhere but we have a critical and obvious area of weakness in our core ruck/stoppage set-up that has been repeatedly and ruthlessly exposed in big games in the last 3-4 years - I want our club to address this first before we tinker around the edges with 2nd ruck/forward. Lobb doesn't address the core ruck weakness (nor does English - a 4 year sample size is plenty big enough to make that assessment).

I am sick of seeing us lose in big games the exact same way, I hope the match committee is also finally sick of it because it has cost us so much already at the pointy end in the last few years.

I’d be all for this.

Grundy rucking 80%, Marra/Darcy/English as our talls and Naughton back in defence. All our weaknesses are pretty much sured up.

Will never happen.

[The Doctor]

What price would people pay for Grundy?

[Sedat]

What price would people pay for Grundy?
He's on $1m isn't he? I'd happily pay him $700k a year for the remainder of his contract, on the proviso his medical passes with flying colours. Pies have supposedly indicated they are happy to pay $300k a year of his salary for the remainder of his contract to ensure they can retain De Goey and bring in the likes of McStay, Bobby Hill and also have enough money to pay their young stars accordingly in the future.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Time to build a bridge...we won, they lost... happy days!

We need to add players to our team to help us win more than we are currently and Lobb helps in that regard.

Yep I get it, and I'll survive if we get him (I did when we got Akermanis and I was no fan of him either). I am also cognisant that the modern players themselves get over these things as professionals.

[Grantysghost]

He's on $1m isn't he? I'd happily pay him $700k a year for the remainder of his contract, on the proviso his medical passes with flying colours. Pies have supposedly indicated they are happy to pay $300k a year of his salary for the remainder of his contract to ensure they can retain De Goey and bring in the likes of McStay, Bobby Hill and also have enough money to pay their young stars accordingly in the future.

There's no way Tim will be relegated to second ruck.

Dunks got his way with the ruck role so basically took a lever from Bevo's arsenal and is still going.

Tail wagging the dog can't happen but it does.

[Happy Days]

I’m still pro Lobb I guess and it’s likely that he’s a better centre square ruckman than Tim is, but there are far more pressing needs in defence, which a lack of real discussion to address (ie not Liam Jones) continues to really frustrate me.

But really who even cares anymore, I can’t get excited about list management so long as we’re losing A graders and replacing them with lazy or fat or anti vax flotsam.

[bornadog]

I’m still pro Lobb I guess and it’s likely that he’s a better centre square ruckman than Tim is, but there are far more pressing needs in defence, which a lack of real discussion to address (ie not Liam Jones) continues to really frustrate me.

But really who even cares anymore, I can’t get excited about list management so long as we’re losing A graders and replacing them with lazy or fat or anti vax flotsam.

HD this made me laugh and at the same time I agree with you.

[Grantysghost]

I’m still pro Lobb I guess and it’s likely that he’s a better centre square ruckman than Tim is, but there are far more pressing needs in defence, which a lack of real discussion to address (ie not Liam Jones) continues to really frustrate me.

But really who even cares anymore, I can’t get excited about list management so long as we’re losing A graders and replacing them with lazy or fat or anti vax flotsam.

Is that Bont carrying a slab...? Of Great Northern!?

Took something special to replace rainbow Aker.

[Happy Days]

Is that Bont carrying a slab...? Of Great Northern!?

Took something special to replace rainbow Aker.

Sure is. Fantastic leadership.

[Sedat]

There's no way Tim will be relegated to second ruck.

Dunks got his way with the ruck role so basically took a lever from Bevo's arsenal and is still going.

Tail wagging the dog can't happen but it does.
Then the nuclear option would be to look at replacing Bevo (which I'm not advocating by the way). Either we are serious about addressing and rectifying our critical areas of weakness or we aren't. English demanding where to play sends completely the wrong message to the playing group and to the rest of the competition. If he was the 2nd coming of Simon Madden I might be more sympathetic to his supreme confidence, but he is not and never will be.

Dunkley demanding not to ruck is more understandable but still sent a poor message.

[Bulldog Revolution]

He looks a somewhat clunky fit on our list, in that we have a whole host of developing tall forwards, but he's also simultaneously everything we need.

We don't have anyone on the list currently who can play forward or back but then also play as a backup ruckman.

The closest to that is Darcy, and he's played 4 games, on the back of no pre-season, and is a long term prospect, but still has a lot of development ahead, and is some years away from being able to ruck consistently even in a backup role.

Lobb is a talent - he isnt a high possession player but he's impactful. I could imagine him improving further with us, but if he produces what he has at Freo this year, hes a very good player.

[westbulldog]

Didn't we go with a no dickheads policy a couple of years ago ? For me it is no to Lobb and no to thinking Jones will solve our kpd issues. Imo neither English nor anyone else can call the shots so I am in the get Grundy camp.

[1eyedog]

Then the nuclear option would be to look at replacing Bevo (which I'm not advocating by the way). Either we are serious about addressing and rectifying our critical areas of weakness or we aren't. English demanding where to play sends completely the wrong message to the playing group and to the rest of the competition. If he was the 2nd coming of Simon Madden I might be more sympathetic to his supreme confidence, but he is not and never will be.

Dunkley demanding not to ruck is more understandable but still sent a poor message.

Agreed. It's Bevo or the Highway has been since 2016 and rightfully so. Problem is if we choose Bevo it's warts and all.

For shits and giggles let's look at Simon Madden's season as a young 25 year old ruckman and Tim English's season as a young 25 year old ruckman.

In 1982 a 25 year old Simon Madden played 21 games, had 142 handpasses and 74 kicks and 230 hit outs.
In 2022 a 25 year old English played 16 games, had 164 kicks and 125 handpasses along with 379 hit outs.

The year after, as a 26 year old, Madden explodes and for the next two years has a whooping 812 and 699 hits out respectively.

In no way am I suggesting that Tim English's trajectory is mirroring or is on track to eclipse Simon Madden's but the fact remains that Tim is considered immature as a ruck and is about to enter his prime, core years and we still really have no idea just how good he will be AND we're just too heavily invested.

Even Gawn accelerated as a maturing ruck in 2016 after turning 25.

Would hate to cast English aside with his window fast approaching. We don't sign players and then six months later try to fob them off.

[Vred]

And if he (Bruce) doesn't?

I have absolutely no confidence that Bruce will get back to being a regular contributor for our team.

Alright, we should go after Grundy then if it's more of a ruck then a forward option. Grundy/English running around sounds pretty good to me.

[Scraggers]

I just don't understand how a forward line of Lobb, Darcy, JUH, and Naughton works. Our current forward line is not working; all forward flying for balls lobbed (pardon the pun) into our forward fifty only to have it spoiled then repelled to the opposition F50 for a scoring shot. We aren't hitting lead-up forwards ... we are just kicking and hoping. Adding Lobb to it will only make it more congested.

People on here are adamant that Naughton can't play back, we need him forward and then in the same breath saying something has to change. If we are going after Lobb, he plays forward and cuts out in the ruck when English needs a break. Then Naughton plays back and shores up our defence. With Liam Jones and Gardner we would have a more agile back line.

I voted no, we don't need him. But it seems as though we will get him

[azabob]

I just don't understand how a forward line of Lobb, Darcy, JUH, and Naughton works. Our current forward line is not working; all forward flying for balls lobbed (pardon the pun) into our forward fifty only to have it spoiled then repelled to the opposition F50 for a scoring shot. We aren't hitting lead-up forwards ... we are just kicking and hoping. Adding Lobb to it will only make it more congested.

People on here are adamant that Naughton can't play back, we need him forward and then in the same breath saying something has to change. If we are going after Lobb, he plays forward and cuts out in the ruck when English needs a break. Then Naughton plays back and shores up our defence. With Liam Jones and Gardner we would have a more agile back line.

I voted no, we don't need him. But it seems as though we will get him

I don't disagree but how do we fix our ruck issue?

[Sedat]

Agreed. It's Bevo or the Highway has been since 2016 and rightfully so. Problem is if we choose Bevo it's warts and all.

For shits and giggles let's look at Simon Madden's season as a young 25 year old ruckman and Tim English's season as a young 25 year old ruckman.

In 1982 a 25 year old Simon Madden played 21 games, had 142 handpasses and 74 kicks and 230 hit outs.
In 2022 a 25 year old English played 16 games, had 164 kicks and 125 handpasses along with 379 hit outs.

The year after, as a 26 year old, Madden explodes and for the next two years has a whooping 812 and 699 hits out respectively.

In no way am I suggesting that Tim English's trajectory is mirroring or is on track to eclipse Simon Madden's but the fact remains that Tim is considered immature as a ruck and is about to enter his prime, core years and we still really have no idea just how good he will be AND we're just too heavily invested.

Even Gawn accelerated as a maturing ruck in 2016 after turning 25.

Would hate to cast English aside with his window fast approaching. We don't sign players and then six months later try to fob them off.
I totally understand the late bloomer argument but when English is older than both Sean Darcy and Luke Jackson and has been completely ineffective in finals despite being older and more experienced than his opponents (I accept Ryder had vastly more experience when he destroyed Tim in the 2020 EF), I simply have grave doubts that he will ever become either a stoppage ruckman of high quality or a tough, hard, nasty and uncompromising stoppage ruck beast.

The last 4 years has not eased my doubts at all, and our last 3 finals losses certainly haven't. Believe me, I so want to be wrong on this. I have desperately wanted English to work as our no 1 ruck. It hasn't thus far, and especially in the heat of September when it really needs to work. And it has already cost us greatly - we are in the window and this area has been brutally exposed in devastating bursts in both of our last 2 finals.

Geelong have had a similar conundrum with Stanley, Esava and Blicavs being used as mobile athletic rucks - they have also not saluted the judges in the last few years of contending, despite having an elite midfield and a better defence than ours. Richmond went from laughing stock to triple premiers when they got Nank. Geelong did likewise when they got Ottens. Melbourne swept the competition when they got Jackson to pair up with Gawn. Hawks got McEvoy who was very important in their 3-peat after falling short a couple of years (as was Lake obviously).

[F'scary]

And if he (Bruce) doesn't?

I have absolutely no confidence that Bruce will get back to being a regular contributor for our team.

Agree, maybe he should not have played, but his exposed comeback form was so far off the pace it looked terminal, careerwise.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Didn't we go with a no dickheads policy a couple of years ago ? For me it is no to Lobb and no to thinking Jones will solve our kpd issues. Imo neither English nor anyone else can call the shots so I am in the get Grundy camp.

I dont think its fair to suggest Lobb or Jones are dickheads

Lobb has tatts, peroxide hair but hasnt been an off field problem that Im aware of

Jones was a very consistent footballer with Carlton. Hes not the answer by himself, but he might be part of the answer.

[Rocco Jones]

I agree with a lot of what Sedat has to say about English. My thinking though is he doesn't need to go to R2 to change things up.

At the moment, not only is he a first ruck, he is almost solely playing ruck. I would like to see at least more of a balance. English/Lobb sharing the role at bit more. Might help change things up when the momentum needs arresting.

[Mofra]

We're all in on the English as first ruck train. I think he is potentially the best second ruck in the competition but that's not going to happen.

On that basis, I'm a yes to Lobb. I have zero faith in Bruce and Darcy isn't ready.

[Scraggers]

I don't disagree but how do we fix our ruck issue?

Earlier on this year, English was touted as the number one ruck in the competition ... better than Gawn or Grundy. His tap work was on-point and his work around the ground, particularly at ground level, sublime. He has not shown that form since. I am sick and tired of stop-gap measures like Stefan Martin (and now Lobb). Either our current back-up (in Sweet) is good enough to play regularly or he goes to another club and we bring in a YOUNGER (than Lobb) back-up who is. If he is good enough, he plays every game with English. To me, Darcy plays the role Lobb is purported to play; starting forward and back up ruck. Yes, he is green, but he will learn quickly.

Our holes are in the backline ... running defenders who don't break down every five minutes and someone who can punch the ball and stop the opposition lead-up forwards. I also think we need more adept wingman. Bringing in a fourth forward who can play back up ruck is ridiculous to me.

[bornadog]

Earlier on this year, English was touted as the number one ruck in the competition ... better than Gawn or Grundy. His tap work was on-point and his work around the ground, particularly at ground level, sublime. He has not shown that form since. I am sick and tired of stop-gap measures like Stefan Martin (and now Lobb). Either our current back-up (in Sweet) is good enough to play regularly or he goes to another club and we bring in a YOUNGER (than Lobb) back-up who is. If he is good enough, he plays every game with English. To me, Darcy plays the role Lobb is purported to play; starting forward and back up ruck. Yes, he is green, but he will learn quickly.

Our holes are in the backline ... running defenders who don't break down every five minutes and someone who can punch the ball and stop the opposition lead-up forwards. I also think we need more adept wingman. Bringing in a fourth forward who can play back up ruck is ridiculous to me.

Even if we get Lobb, we should also have another developing ruck on our list

[GVGjr]

Just a bit surprised with the poll results so far because a few weeks back it seemed the vibe of getting him was a lot stronger than it is now.

[1eyedog]

I totally understand the late bloomer argument but when English is older than both Sean Darcy and Luke Jackson and has been completely ineffective in finals despite being older and more experienced than his opponents (I accept Ryder had vastly more experience when he destroyed Tim in the 2020 EF), I simply have grave doubts that he will ever become either a stoppage ruckman of high quality or a tough, hard, nasty and uncompromising stoppage ruck beast.

The last 4 years has not eased my doubts at all, and our last 3 finals losses certainly haven't. Believe me, I so want to be wrong on this. I have desperately wanted English to work as our no 1 ruck. It hasn't thus far, and especially in the heat of September when it really needs to work. And it has already cost us greatly - we are in the window and this area has been brutally exposed in devastating bursts in both of our last 2 finals.

Geelong have had a similar conundrum with Stanley, Esava and Blicavs being used as mobile athletic rucks - they have also not saluted the judges in the last few years of contending, despite having an elite midfield and a better defence than ours. Richmond went from laughing stock to triple premiers when they got Nank. Geelong did likewise when they got Ottens. Melbourne swept the competition when they got Jackson to pair up with Gawn. Hawks got McEvoy who was very important in their 3-peat after falling short a couple of years (as was Lake obviously).

That's a good argument.

Historically I agree with your position English is not my preferred ruck type, someone like Nank would be perfect for us considering our mids tend to close up when the heat is on. A big aggressive ruckman is exactly what we need but you know as well as I do that Bevo is not going to 180 on English in the ruck.

We've lost a lot of opportunities with English but we've also invested way too much. Bevo is just going to have to sail this ship to port. Also, if one was to single English out for our poor finals showings this would be a tad unfair when other important players have also failed to live up to their end of the bargain. The other positive to English's game, unlike other ruckmen like Darcy and Nank is he kicks goals. He's a 20 goal a year ruckman. Can't be understated.

My strong feeling on the Lobb aquisition is that getting him in to assist is absolutely dealing with this issue as far as Bevo et al. are concerned.

[hujsh]

That's a good argument.

Historically I agree with your position English is not my preferred ruck type, someone like Nank would be perfect for us considering our mids tend to close up when the heat is on. A big aggressive ruckman is exactly what we need but you know as well as I do that Bevo is not going to 180 on English in the ruck.

We've lost a lot of opportunities with English but we've also invested way too much. Bevo is just going to have to sail this ship to port. Also, if one was to single English out for our poor finals showings this would be a tad unfair when other important players have also failed to live up to their end of the bargain. The other positive to English's game, unlike other ruckmen like Darcy and Nank is he kicks goals. He's a 20 goal a year ruckman. Can't be understated.

My strong feeling on the Lobb aquisition is that getting him in to assist is absolutely dealing with this issue as far as Bevo et al. are concerned.

At least it's a better solution than throwing first year Darcy in the ruck.

[Grantysghost]

Just a bit surprised with the poll results so far because a few weeks back it seemed the vibe of getting him was a lot stronger than it is now.

We don't need him.

Can't believe we aren't going all out for defenders and crumbing forwards, and probably defense minded mids.

I'm actually sick of hearing about Lobb.

I'm also amazed he can kick so well off such a short run must be powerful.

How do we think the Lobb link started? Are we actively chasing guys like him or was he shopped and we bit?

[G-Mo77]

Just a bit surprised with the poll results so far because a few weeks back it seemed the vibe of getting him was a lot stronger than it is now.

Darcy took 3 marks against Box Hill and everyone thought our problems in this area were solved. :)

We need another Ruck and one that can take a mark and maybe kick a goal. Lobb does that in spades. The same people arguing against are probably the same people saying Martin: Too old, Sweet: doesn't do enough, Cordy: Bevo's lost it, Buku, Hannan, who else have we desperately tried? This is the player we've been crying out for all season and now we make a play for him so many are saying no thanks? English needs help, we can split is minutes to around 70 - 30 with Lobb instead of 95 - 5. Surely that's got to be good for him as well?

[Danjul]

That's a good argument.

Historically I agree with your position English is not my preferred ruck type, someone like Nank would be perfect for us considering our mids tend to close up when the heat is on. A big aggressive ruckman is exactly what we need but you know as well as I do that Bevo is not going to 180 on English in the ruck.

We've lost a lot of opportunities with English but we've also invested way too much. Bevo is just going to have to sail this ship to port. Also, if one was to single English out for our poor finals showings this would be a tad unfair when other important players have also failed to live up to their end of the bargain. The other positive to English's game, unlike other ruckmen like Darcy and Nank is he kicks goals. He's a 20 goal a year ruckman. Can't be understated.

My strong feeling on the Lobb aquisition is that getting him in to assist is absolutely dealing with this issue as far as Bevo et al. are concerned.
It certainly should be. Both English and Darcy kicked 10 goals this year.

The true reason he is played in a way that limits the team success at times is someone has limited imagination about English’s true talent. We should not have spent the last few years devoting all energy shoring up falsehoods.

[Sedat]

That's a good argument.

Historically I agree with your position English is not my preferred ruck type, someone like Nank would be perfect for us considering our mids tend to close up when the heat is on. A big aggressive ruckman is exactly what we need but you know as well as I do that Bevo is not going to 180 on English in the ruck.

We've lost a lot of opportunities with English but we've also invested way too much. Bevo is just going to have to sail this ship to port. Also, if one was to single English out for our poor finals showings this would be a tad unfair when other important players have also failed to live up to their end of the bargain. The other positive to English's game, unlike other ruckmen like Darcy and Nank is he kicks goals. He's a 20 goal a year ruckman. Can't be understated.

My strong feeling on the Lobb aquisition is that getting him in to assist is absolutely dealing with this issue as far as Bevo et al. are concerned.
When push comes to shove, if we aren't going to make a serious play for a genuine elite Grundy type. I don't want to see English rucking 90% game time on his own ever again. He is not up to it physically, competitively or in actual ruck craft to be the sole ruck he craves. Lobb doing up to 50% of the duties is a scenario that cannot possibly be worse than conceding 27 goals to 3 in opposition bursts the last 2 finals.

It must be said that English doesn't carry the can on his own for our stoppage/clearance woes in finals - our mids have been far too aggressive and not respectful enough to the clearance capabilities of the opposition mids in these devastating runs. However, English simply has to be much, much more physical. Sean Darcy and even Lobb toyed with him on the weekend and it was a thoroughly sub-par performance - I can (barely) accept a vastly more experienced Paddy Ryder toying with English at stoppages (especially boundary throw-ins) in a final 2 years ago but not now and not against someone younger. If English wants to be the big dog, he needs to accept the feedback that his efforts in our last 2 finals have been incredibly poor and not anywhere near the basic competitive standard required in finals.

[1eyedog]

It certainly should be. Both English and Darcy kicked 10 goals this year.

The true reason he is played in a way that limits the team success at times is someone has limited imagination about English’s true talent. We should not have spent the last few years devoting all energy shoring up falsehoods.

You're right, English kicked 20 last year; however, English has kicked one more than Darcy this year and played 4 less games. Goals are golden in our team and English is a goal kicking ruckman (or as others have rightfully alluded to a goal kicking 2nd ruck).

As for pigeonholing Tim into the ruck role so early in his career I 100% agree with you.

I'd love to get Grundy but it just isn't going to happen.

[Scraggers]

Even if we get Lobb, we should also have another developing ruck on our list

Couldn't agree more ... just not a 30+ someone (Lobb) in my opinion

[Danjul]

You're right, English kicked 20 last year; however, English has kicked one more than Darcy this year and played 4 less games. Goals are golden in our team and English is a goal kicking ruckman (or as others have rightfully alluded to a goal kicking 2nd ruck).
I agree with you here. If he had been allowed to develop as a second ruck he would be better now and the team would have been more successful recently.

The true test of the home and away games is finishing top four, and we haven’t been able to do it while a young English has been our sole ruckman. Now is when he should be being introduced to the role, but he was never given a proper apprenticeship.

[Mofra]

Even if we get Lobb, we should also have another developing ruck on our list
100% yes.
They're are still good ones to be found and developed from the rookie list. The Big O was taken as a rookie in the Tim English draft.

[G-Mo77]

Even if we get Lobb, we should also have another developing ruck on our list

Definitely, but we don't seem to look at them too often.

I still think Sweet can be useful, his tap work, IMO, is really good but seemed to have gone backwards in other areas, even at VFL level which he used to do quite well. I haven't given up on him.

[bornadog]

Definitely, but we don't seem to look at them too often.

I still think Sweet can be useful, his tap work, IMO, is really good but has seem to have gone backwards in other areas, even at VFL level which he used to do quite well. I haven't given up on him.

Yes, I would also keep him going and see if he can improve. He is only 24.

[FrediKanoute]

I just don't understand how a forward line of Lobb, Darcy, JUH, and Naughton works. Our current forward line is not working; all forward flying for balls lobbed (pardon the pun) into our forward fifty only to have it spoiled then repelled to the opposition F50 for a scoring shot. We aren't hitting lead-up forwards ... we are just kicking and hoping. Adding Lobb to it will only make it more congested.

People on here are adamant that Naughton can't play back, we need him forward and then in the same breath saying something has to change. If we are going after Lobb, he plays forward and cuts out in the ruck when English needs a break. Then Naughton plays back and shores up our defence. With Liam Jones and Gardner we would have a more agile back line.

I voted no, we don't need him. But it seems as though we will get him

It doesn't. Darcy play's back

[GVGjr]

I just don't understand how a forward line of Lobb, Darcy, JUH, and Naughton works. Our current forward line is not working; all forward flying for balls lobbed (pardon the pun) into our forward fifty only to have it spoiled then repelled to the opposition F50 for a scoring shot. We aren't hitting lead-up forwards ... we are just kicking and hoping. Adding Lobb to it will only make it more congested.

People on here are adamant that Naughton can't play back, we need him forward and then in the same breath saying something has to change. If we are going after Lobb, he plays forward and cuts out in the ruck when English needs a break. Then Naughton plays back and shores up our defence. With Liam Jones and Gardner we would have a more agile back line.

I voted no, we don't need him. But it seems as though we will get him

Plus you need to add Bruce to this mix. I don't think Bruce is a spent force, he could get back to somewhere near his 2021 form in 2023.
I have no problems holding back Darcy for a bit longer but we have a juggling act that we will need to manage.

[Grantysghost]

Plus you need to add Bruce to this mix.
I have no problems holding back Darcy for a bit longer but we have a juggling act that we will need to manage.

He's been with us 3 years. Id be ok if that was it.

[Scorlibo]

Plus you need to add Bruce to this mix. I don't think Bruce is a spent force, he could get back to somewhere near his 2021 form in 2023.
I have no problems holding back Darcy for a bit longer but we have a juggling act that we will need to manage.

This is where I feel we're overreaching slightly with Lobb, because I agree Bruce will offer more next year - who could forget the turnaround from 2020 to 2021 in his form after a full pre-season?

Lobb, Bruce, Naughton, Ugle-Hagan, Darcy. Five key forwards. Lobb slots into the forward/ruck role, and the other four compete for two spots. Naughton will play, so that's then Darcy, Bruce and Ugle-Hagan fighting for one spot.

Two months ago I wouldn't have any problem holding Darcy back, he seemed to be miles off the pace without a pre-season and coming back from injury (and still growing!) Look at his finish to the season though, started dominating VFL games, then came in and had 14 intercepts in his first two games down back, then took 6 marks inside fifty in his first two games up forward.

He'll be much better again next year with a pre-season behind him. We can play him behind the ball, but all of his learned craft is up forward.

There've been a few suggestions to send Naughton to the backline and given the circumstances it's not crazy. Every time I wrestle with the proposition though I'm reminded of him having kicked nearly 100 goals in the last two seasons. That's a rare feat - we have to go back to Stringer's 2015/16 seasons for similar output. He's still improving up forward too. In 2021 I think something like all but one of his goals came from set shots? This year the majority seem to have come from snaps. If we can support him to get the marking game going again, and split the difference between the last two seasons, he could take another big step.

Then in the background there's Schache who based on his finish to the VFL season should be in AFL contention too.

That's a lot of headaches created for the sake of a 20 minutes per game second ruck, who might only last two more seasons before his body gives way.

Now having said all of that, competitive selection is good, and bringing in quality players is always good, so I'm not against Lobb coming to us, but the price has to be right. An end of second round pick is the maximum I'd like to see us give up to get him.

[GVGjr]

Scorlibo, thanks for the post and it echo's my thoughts that we will have some challenges bringing in Lobb for next season.
12 months back and knowing Bruce would miss a lot of the season he would have been a perfect fit for us but things change quickly in the AFL and the emergence of JUH, promising signs Darcy and a returning Bruce and we now have a bit of a logjam to manage.
He's still a very good fit for us particularly given he's a massive upgrade on current 2nd ruck options on game day but it's going to create some challenges. Our reluctance to use Schache, for some good reasons, has created a need to get a replacement.

[Scraggers]

It doesn't. Darcy play's back

Darcy is not a backman.

[Mantis]

This is where I feel we're overreaching slightly with Lobb, because I agree Bruce will offer more next year - who could forget the turnaround from 2020 to 2021 in his form after a full pre-season?

Lobb, Bruce, Naughton, Ugle-Hagan, Darcy. Five key forwards. Lobb slots into the forward/ruck role, and the other four compete for two spots. Naughton will play, so that's then Darcy, Bruce and Ugle-Hagan fighting for one spot.

Two months ago I wouldn't have any problem holding Darcy back, he seemed to be miles off the pace without a pre-season and coming back from injury (and still growing!) Look at his finish to the season though, started dominating VFL games, then came in and had 14 intercepts in his first two games down back, then took 6 marks inside fifty in his first two games up forward.

He'll be much better again next year with a pre-season behind him. We can play him behind the ball, but all of his learned craft is up forward.

There've been a few suggestions to send Naughton to the backline and given the circumstances it's not crazy. Every time I wrestle with the proposition though I'm reminded of him having kicked nearly 100 goals in the last two seasons. That's a rare feat - we have to go back to Stringer's 2015/16 seasons for similar output. He's still improving up forward too. In 2021 I think something like all but one of his goals came from set shots? This year the majority seem to have come from snaps. If we can support him to get the marking game going again, and split the difference between the last two seasons, he could take another big step.

Then in the background there's Schache who based on his finish to the VFL season should be in AFL contention too.

That's a lot of headaches created for the sake of a 20 minutes per game second ruck, who might only last two more seasons before his body gives way.

Now having said all of that, competitive selection is good, and bringing in quality players is always good, so I'm not against Lobb coming to us, but the price has to be right. An end of second round pick is the maximum I'd like to see us give up to get him.

1/ Bruce is two years older than the start of 2021 and has suffered a serious injury in that time... It's much more unlikely than likely that he gets back to being a very competent AFL player.

2/ That means you have faith in English being a 100 minute per game ruckman.... and based on previous performances it's hard to see that happening, especially against the more physical types where he is still getting rag-dolled.

[Mofra]

Couldn't agree more ... just not a 30+ someone (Lobb) in my opinion
I think Lobb is actually the perfect age for us - gives Darcy a real development timeline.
Anyone younger would be a waste of a contract in their later years.

I note Soldo (who we chased last year) is now potentially on the table as Richmond need cap & trade capital for Taranto & Hopper. Silly boy should have taken the deal with us.

[1eyedog]

This is where I feel we're overreaching slightly with Lobb, because I agree Bruce will offer more next year - who could forget the turnaround from 2020 to 2021 in his form after a full pre-season?

Lobb, Bruce, Naughton, Ugle-Hagan, Darcy. Five key forwards. Lobb slots into the forward/ruck role, and the other four compete for two spots. Naughton will play, so that's then Darcy, Bruce and Ugle-Hagan fighting for one spot.

Two months ago I wouldn't have any problem holding Darcy back, he seemed to be miles off the pace without a pre-season and coming back from injury (and still growing!) Look at his finish to the season though, started dominating VFL games, then came in and had 14 intercepts in his first two games down back, then took 6 marks inside fifty in his first two games up forward.

He'll be much better again next year with a pre-season behind him. We can play him behind the ball, but all of his learned craft is up forward.

There've been a few suggestions to send Naughton to the backline and given the circumstances it's not crazy. Every time I wrestle with the proposition though I'm reminded of him having kicked nearly 100 goals in the last two seasons. That's a rare feat - we have to go back to Stringer's 2015/16 seasons for similar output. He's still improving up forward too. In 2021 I think something like all but one of his goals came from set shots? This year the majority seem to have come from snaps. If we can support him to get the marking game going again, and split the difference between the last two seasons, he could take another big step.

Then in the background there's Schache who based on his finish to the VFL season should be in AFL contention too.

That's a lot of headaches created for the sake of a 20 minutes per game second ruck, who might only last two more seasons before his body gives way.

Now having said all of that, competitive selection is good, and bringing in quality players is always good, so I'm not against Lobb coming to us, but the price has to be right. An end of second round pick is the maximum I'd like to see us give up to get him.

I'm not sure Darcy, Marra and Bruce will be fighting for one spot. Lobb is a bit of a two year stop gap for mine. Darcy will likely play back as he continues to develop and will likely play 8-10 games next year. Marra also played more games than he deserved. Bruce we have zero idea about. Lobb is immediately a best 22 key forward with a known quantity.

I think we have more pressing needs in other areas of the ground as well but there's no denying that Lobb is less of risk forward than Bruce in 2023 and a much better ruckman than pretty much everyone on our list.

[bornadog]

I think Lobb is actually the perfect age for us - gives Darcy a real development timeline.
Anyone younger would be a waste of a contract in their later years.

I note Soldo (who we chased last year) is now potentially on the table as Richmond need cap & trade capital for Taranto & Hopper. Silly boy should have taken the deal with us.
If it were possible would you take Soldo and forget Lobb?

[Sedat]

2/ That means you have faith in English being a 100 minute per game ruckman.... and based on previous performances it's hard to see that happening, especially against the more physical types where he is still getting rag-dolled.
Agree 1000%

The headaches with 100 mins game time for 1st ruck need to be urgently addressed. Not in 2024 or 2025, but right now this off-season. If that means getting Lobb and giving him 40-50% ruck time to support English, that is better than the current situation. It is clearly not my preferred option but we cannot waste another minute treading water, and I'll take that over the status quo every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

[Bulldog4life]

Agree 1000%

The headaches with 100 mins game time for 1st ruck need to be urgently addressed. Not in 2024 or 2025, but right now this off-season. If that means getting Lobb and giving him 40-50% ruck time to support English, that is better than the current situation. It is clearly not my preferred option but we cannot waste another minute treading water, and I'll take that over the status quo every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

Here are Tim's hit outs this season. His average per game is below some of course but surprisingly better than some too.

https://www.zerohanger.com/afl/player-stats/2022-afl-top-hit-outs/

[bornadog]

Here are Tim's hit outs this season. His average per game is below some of course but surprisingly better than some too.

https://www.zerohanger.com/afl/player-stats/2022-afl-top-hit-outs/

The other stats to look at is Tim's hitout to advantage is 31% compared to say Gawn at 33%

[Bulldog4life]

The other stats to look at is Tim's hitout to advantage is 31% compared to say Gawn at 33%

Couldn't find them.

[bornadog]

Couldn't find them.

I just gave it to you :)

[Bulldog4life]

I just gave it to you :)

Ha ha no the stats for all ruckmen to advantage.

[bornadog]

Ha ha no the stats for all ruckmen to advantage.

I got that from AFL.com.au stats - see here (https://www.afl.com.au/stats/leaders?category=Stoppages&seasonId=43&roundId=-1&roundNumber=0&sortColumn=hitoutsToAdvantage&sortDirection=descending&positions=All&teams=All&benchmarking=false&dataType=averages&playerOneId=null&playerTwoId=null)

[Bulldog4life]

I got that from AFL.com.au stats - see here (https://www.afl.com.au/stats/leaders?category=Stoppages&seasonId=43&roundId=-1&roundNumber=0&sortColumn=hitoutsToAdvantage&sortDirection=descending&positions=All&teams=All&benchmarking=false&dataType=averages&playerOneId=null&playerTwoId=null)

Thanks

[Sedat]

I got that from AFL.com.au stats - see here (https://www.afl.com.au/stats/leaders?category=Stoppages&seasonId=43&roundId=-1&roundNumber=0&sortColumn=hitoutsToAdvantage&sortDirection=descending&positions=All&teams=All&benchmarking=false&dataType=averages&playerOneId=null&playerTwoId=null)
So according to official stats, Sam Hayes has more hitouts to advantage per game than all of Max Gawn, Brodie Grundy, Toby Nankervis and Nic Nat, and he has 4 times more than Finlayson despite Finlayson being preferred as no 1 ruck for the entire 2nd half of the season. Ok then.

Not sure the stats are backing up the argument for or against English. I'm happy to evaluate based on finals performances against direct opponents, which are definitive and not in a good way unfortunately.

[bornadog]

So according to official stats, Sam Hayes has more hitouts to advantage per game than all of Max Gawn, Brodie Grundy, Toby Nankervis and Nic Nat, and he has 4 times more than Finlayson despite Finlayson being preferred as no 1 ruck for the entire 2nd half of the season. Ok then.

Not sure the stats are backing up the argument for or against English. I'm happy to evaluate based on finals performances against direct opponents, which are definitive and not in a good way unfortunately.

Of course you wouldn't look at players that don't play regularly like Hayes.

[Mofra]

If it were possible would you take Soldo and forget Lobb?
No.

Soldo is a great 50/50 ruck forward but Lobb the better 90/10 forward. The latter is clearly what we're going for:
https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?playerStatus1=A&tid1=9&playerStatus2=A&tid2=15&type=A&pid1=3946&pid2=4141&fid1=S&fid2=S

It's not that far different accounting for time in position this year.

[F'scary]

No more stop gaps, unless they are on short term (1 year at a time) contracts.

[Scorlibo]

1/ Bruce is two years older than the start of 2021 and has suffered a serious injury in that time... It's much more unlikely than likely that he gets back to being a very competent AFL player.

You make a couple of fair points but I just don't see how that equates to counting him out. Re: injury, he fractured his leg for the Saints in 2018 before returning to form in 2019. He's old but not ancient. He's highly regarded internally, and he's shown the ability to turn things around season to season. I'm not saying he'll return to 2021 form, but if he stays fit I think he'll play the majority of games next year.


2/ That means you have faith in English being a 100 minute per game ruckman.... and based on previous performances it's hard to see that happening, especially against the more physical types where he is still getting rag-dolled.

How much ruck time are we realistically expecting Lobb to take away from English? Lobb will be a forward first and foremost. He might play a few more minutes compared to Cordy or Bruce, but it's not substantially different to the status quo.

English has been going at 80-85% centre bounce time. Darcy/Lobb split their time 77%/23% on the weekend.

I know we're all still mourning the loss, and English's performance was not great, but we can all agree that he had a great season, no? I wouldn't trade him for any other ruckman at this point. His tap work is still ordinary, although it's been steadily improving. His around the ground work was elite, especially his first 8 or so games. He's Luke Darcy not Scott Wynd and I think we just have to accept that and come up with solutions around the hitouts, as we have done this season to finish as the best clearance team.

[bornadog]

I know we're all still mourning the loss, and English's performance was not great, but we can all agree that he had a great season, no? I wouldn't trade him for any other ruckman at this point. His tap work is still ordinary, although it's been steadily improving. His around the ground work was elite, especially his first 8 or so games. He's Luke Darcy not Scott Wynd and I think we just have to accept that and come up with solutions around the hitouts, as we have done this season to finish as the best clearance team.

Couldn't agree more.

For modern ruckman, hitouts is not the only measure. Around the ground work is very important.

We are number one for Clearances including Stoppage Clr and centre clr and right up there with cont poss. Ruck is the least of our worries.

We have bigger issues with our defensive system and one on one in defence. Defenders are turning over the ball far too many times as well and they have cost us games eg Daniel v Adelaide, Richards on Saturday didn't help, and he did the same against GWS but lucky we won by 5 points.

[Sedat]

I know we're all still mourning the loss, and English's performance was not great, but we can all agree that he had a great season, no? I wouldn't trade him for any other ruckman at this point. His tap work is still ordinary, although it's been steadily improving. His around the ground work was elite, especially his first 8 or so games. He's Luke Darcy not Scott Wynd and I think we just have to accept that and come up with solutions around the hitouts, as we have done this season to finish as the best clearance team.
Huge fans of your posts but I respectfully disagree with all of the above. If your game does not stack in up September, what is the actual point of dominating against sub-par opponents? English has never dominated against quality opposition, either individual ruckmen or the collective team.

Repeating the same behaviours that resulted in calamitous fade-outs is not an option - it should not have been an option in 2022 but we did not heed the lessons that Melbourne ruthlessly taught us.

English doing 90% ruck time moving forward is not going to work. There is a 4 year sample size of consistent failure to get it done against the best teams and opposition ruckmen. It's not just an English/stoppage problem - we also need to find better balance in our midfield set-up so that we have some defensive integrity and aren't all hunting the ball like Melbourne's mids used to do before 2021 and Richmond did before 2017.

[bornadog]

English doing 90% ruck time moving forward is not going to work.

No one said he would do 90% if a Lobb comes in and he doesn't do that now. I would expect that ratio to be much closer to a 60/40, or 70/30.

It is not just finals you have to be good at, you need to get there via H&A. Both last year and this English started well but after the two concussions he seems to have lost some confidence. Hopefully next year he is injury free.

[GVGjr]

Just looking at the votes again and there is a high portion of members who have voted so far who think we just don't need him. The conversations are also started to be dominated more on English's value in the ruck.

The speculation in the media is very strong that it's a done deal with Lobb but things could change.

Are we happy enough to go into next season with maybe Bruce and Darcy providing English a chop out?

[bornadog]

Are we happy enough to go into next season with maybe Bruce and Darcy providing English a chop out?

That would be a big risk. If it is not Lobb, then we need someone else.

[GVGjr]

That would be a big risk. If it is not Lobb, then we need someone else.

Are you pretty much all-in on him BAD?

[bornadog]

Are you pretty much all-in on him BAD?

I have decided we need him. I have been on the fence, but I can't see alternatives and if he says he wants to come to us, then we go for it.

[bornadog]

Here is a comparison of English v Nankervis at the same age:



Player Statistics Comparison





Timothy English (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pp-western-bulldogs--timothy-english)
Name
Toby Nankervis (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pp-richmond-tigers--toby-nankervis)


Western Bulldogs (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/th-western-bulldogs)
Team
Richmond Tigers (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/th-richmond-tigers)


Forward, Ruck
Position
Ruck


85
Career Games
121


South Fremantle
Origin
North Launceston


August 10, 1997
Date of Birth
August 12, 1994


25yr 0mth
Age
Turned 25 in 2019


207cm
Height
199cm


103kg
Weight
102kg


2016 National Draft (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_drafts?year=2016&t=N&s=P)
Last Drafted In
2013 National Draft (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_drafts?year=2013&t=N&s=P)


Round 1, Pick #19
Last Draft Position
Round 2, Pick #35


Western Bulldogs (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/th-western-bulldogs)
Last Drafted By
Sydney Swans (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/th-sydney-swans)


2022
Stats for Season
2019


16
Games
12


10.2
Kicks
6.3


7.8
Handballs
6.6


18.1
Disposals
12.9


5.4
Marks
2.3


0.7
Goals
0.3


0.6
Behinds
0.2


2.6
Tackles
3.6


23.7
Hitouts
21.9


3.2
Inside 50s
1.8


0.2
Goal Assists
0.2


2.2
Frees For
0.9


1.1
Frees Against
1.8


8.4
Contested Possessions
6.4


9.6
Uncontested Possessions
6.3


13.4
Effective Disposals
7.5


74%
Disposal Efficiency %
58.1%


3.1
Clangers
3.6


1.2
Contested Marks
0.2


0.9
Marks Inside 50
0.2


4.2
Clearances
2.8


1.8
Rebound 50s
0.4


3.1
One Percenters
3.0


0.5
Bounces
0


84.1
Time On Ground %
70.2


2.1
Centre Clearances
1.4


2.1
Stoppage Clearances
1.3


5.9
Score Involvements
3.2


281.7
Metres Gained
132.2


3.0
Turnovers
2.5


3.8
Intercepts
1.8


0.2
Tackles Inside 50
0.3






In all measures English is ahead including Hitouts, cont poss, centre clearances and stoppages.

[Scorlibo]

Huge fans of your posts but I respectfully disagree with all of the above. If your game does not stack in up September, what is the actual point of dominating against sub-par opponents? English has never dominated against quality opposition, either individual ruckmen or the collective team.

Repeating the same behaviours that resulted in calamitous fade-outs is not an option - it should not have been an option in 2022 but we did not heed the lessons that Melbourne ruthlessly taught us.

English doing 90% ruck time moving forward is not going to work. There is a 4 year sample size of consistent failure to get it done against the best teams and opposition ruckmen. It's not just an English/stoppage problem - we also need to find better balance in our midfield set-up so that we have some defensive integrity and aren't all hunting the ball like Melbourne's mids used to do before 2021 and Richmond did before 2017.

Not sure we'll find agreement on this one, but that's part of the fun...

Re: English melting vs quality opposition, without delving too far into the past, he broke even (I'd say) against Gawn and Darcy late in the season (judged to be 3rd BOG against Melbourne and 7th BOG against Fremantle in the WOOF player awards). In round 1 against Gawn, Tim had another good game winning 8 clearances (4th BOG in WOOF awards). Perhaps his very best games for the year came against more lowly opposition but that's true of most players.

[GVGjr]

I have decided we need him. I have been on the fence, but I can't see alternatives and if he says he wants to come to us, then we go for it.

OK, you appeared to be swinging away from him a couple of weeks ago.
I'm not sure he is a great fit for us but I haven't seen a suitable alternative yet.
If we can get him cheaply then it could be a good deal for us.

[DOG GOD]

Are we happy enough to go into next season with maybe Bruce and Darcy providing English a chop out?

If that is the case, then I’ll be 100% on the sack Bevo train. It would be complete incompetence to allow this to happen again.

[GVGjr]

If that is the case, then I’ll be 100% on the sack Bevo train. It would be complete incompetence to allow this to happen again.

There should be no sack Bevo train. :)

[DOG GOD]

There should be no sack Bevo train. :)

Well I’ll put my captains hat on if we (the club) don’t do anything this trade period to get someone. The ruck weakness is glaring, so let’s see the club DO SOMETHING. If we go into 2023 with English, Sweet, Bruce and Darcy it will be an absolute farce.

[1eyedog]

Here is a comparison of English v Nankervis at the same age:



Player Statistics Comparison





Timothy English (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pp-western-bulldogs--timothy-english)
Name
Toby Nankervis (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pp-richmond-tigers--toby-nankervis)


Western Bulldogs (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/th-western-bulldogs)
Team
Richmond Tigers (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/th-richmond-tigers)


Forward, Ruck
Position
Ruck


85
Career Games
121


South Fremantle
Origin
North Launceston


August 10, 1997
Date of Birth
August 12, 1994


25yr 0mth
Age
Turned 25 in 2019


207cm
Height
199cm


103kg
Weight
102kg


2016 National Draft (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_drafts?year=2016&t=N&s=P)
Last Drafted In
2013 National Draft (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_drafts?year=2013&t=N&s=P)


Round 1, Pick #19
Last Draft Position
Round 2, Pick #35


Western Bulldogs (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/th-western-bulldogs)
Last Drafted By
Sydney Swans (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/th-sydney-swans)


2022
Stats for Season
2019


16
Games
12


10.2
Kicks
6.3


7.8
Handballs
6.6


18.1
Disposals
12.9


5.4
Marks
2.3


0.7
Goals
0.3


0.6
Behinds
0.2


2.6
Tackles
3.6


23.7
Hitouts
21.9


3.2
Inside 50s
1.8


0.2
Goal Assists
0.2


2.2
Frees For
0.9


1.1
Frees Against
1.8


8.4
Contested Possessions
6.4


9.6
Uncontested Possessions
6.3


13.4
Effective Disposals
7.5


74%
Disposal Efficiency %
58.1%


3.1
Clangers
3.6


1.2
Contested Marks
0.2


0.9
Marks Inside 50
0.2


4.2
Clearances
2.8


1.8
Rebound 50s
0.4


3.1
One Percenters
3.0


0.5
Bounces
0


84.1
Time On Ground %
70.2


2.1
Centre Clearances
1.4


2.1
Stoppage Clearances
1.3


5.9
Score Involvements
3.2


281.7
Metres Gained
132.2


3.0
Turnovers
2.5


3.8
Intercepts
1.8


0.2
Tackles Inside 50
0.3






In all measures English is ahead including Hitouts, cont poss, centre clearances and stoppages.

Tim pretty much tears it up against all comparable ruckman at 25 that I've looked at with the exception of Grundy and Sean Darcy.

We'll know what we really have in the next 1-2 years.

[bornadog]

Tim pretty much tears it up against all comparable ruckman at 25 that I've looked at with the exception of Grundy and Sean Darcy.

We'll know what we really have in the next 1-2 years.

Spot on 1eye

[soupman]

There should be no sack Bevo train. :)

For mine Sam Power atm has received a lot more credit than he deserves in the list building field and if he has a third trade period where we come away with a half arsed solution to major deficiencies then I'm gonna be choo chooing his train down the track.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

For mine Sam Power atm has received a lot more credit than he deserves in the list building field and if he has a third trade period where we come away with a half arsed solution to major deficiencies then I'm gonna be choo chooing his train down the track.

I fear I will soon need to change my display photo and signature.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Don't need him, Bruce will have a smashing pre-season and get back to 2021 form, his surplus to needs.

I also voted we don’t need him. Would rather JUH, Darcy, Bruce and naughts post it out. We need a FB.

[MrMahatma]

For mine Sam Power atm has received a lot more credit than he deserves in the list building field and if he has a third trade period where we come away with a half arsed solution to major deficiencies then I'm gonna be choo chooing his train down the track.

It’s hard to judge. He got Bruce and Keath early in his tenure and managed to do it on the relative cheap.
His hands have been tied with picks the last 2 years, so trade currency has been limited

BUT… Bevo seems to cop it for our list holes.

So I’m not sure who is in charge of things. I do know that this trade period is very, very important.

[jeemak]

I'm not sure Darcy, Marra and Bruce will be fighting for one spot. Lobb is a bit of a two year stop gap for mine. Darcy will likely play back as he continues to develop and will likely play 8-10 games next year. Marra also played more games than he deserved. Bruce we have zero idea about. Lobb is immediately a best 22 key forward with a known quantity.

I think we have more pressing needs in other areas of the ground as well but there's no denying that Lobb is less of risk forward than Bruce in 2023 and a much better ruckman than pretty much everyone on our list.

Well summed up and I agree on all fronts.

If Darcy has a full preseason then I think he is perfectly placed to offer us some aerial defencive cover on the intercept. If that leaves Lobb, Marra and Bruce fighting for a spot with Naughton then I think we're in an extremely strong place for key forwards. Probably the best any of us could hope for.

Add form lapses and injuries to all of the forwards combined, plus the potential for English to be injured and again, we actually have some cover as Lobb can play first ruck if we need him to.

[azabob]

Without doubt our ruck needs an overall.

Ideally Lloyd Meek comes in as number one ruck and Tim English embraces playing forward and second ruck.

Option two we need second ruck support to help chop out Tim English.

My concern with Rory Lobb is

1) He does not like to ruck or really provide ruck relief.
2) His effort and consistency in the past is on par with Josh Schache - except he will cost a lot more coin for the privilege.

If Lobb is coming our way I hope we don't part any more than with a late second rate pick or a third round pick.

[westbulldog]

Lobb's game against Collingwood on the biggest stage was ineffectual and uninspiring, a 'No' from me.

[jeemak]

Lobb's game against Collingwood on the biggest stage was ineffectual and uninspiring, a 'No' from me.

He should have kicked a couple and had an almost game.

With the lack of supply I actually thought he was OK. I get why people won't think tonight was a great night for him.

[westbulldog]

He should have kicked a couple and had an almost game.

With the lack of supply I actually thought he was OK. I get why people won't think tonight was a great night for him.

zero tackles zero clearances and 2 hit outs despite 100% time on ground and we want him as a second ruck on good coin ?

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Lobb's game against Collingwood on the biggest stage was ineffectual and uninspiring, a 'No' from me.

I didn't see the game but surely we don't base players off one game.

And if we do, I'd never play Ed Richards ever again after last week!

[GVGjr]

I didn't see the game but surely we don't base players off one game.

And if we do, I'd never play Ed Richards ever again after last week!

Didn't you already confirm that position? :)

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Didn't you already confirm that position? :)

Match day threads don't count ;)

[GVGjr]

Match day threads don't count ;)

Fair call, I forget that sometimes. :)

[jeemak]

zero tackles zero clearances and 2 hit outs despite 100% time on ground and we want him as a second ruck on good coin ?

The first two things you mention aren't great, but also aren't helped by a severe lack of supply or being the only viable target forward for much of the game.

Twelve disposals and four marks, a lot of almost marks throughout the game. Not ripping him apart over that.

You need to pay players to come to your club, it's just how it is. If we give him what he wants there's a fair chance he'll give us what we want.

[jeemak]

Didn't you already confirm that position? :)


Match day threads don't count ;)

GVGjnr is a narc.

[westbulldog]

The first two things you mention aren't great, but also aren't helped by a severe lack of supply or being the only viable target forward for much of the game.

Twelve disposals and four marks, a lot of almost marks throughout the game. Not ripping him apart over that.

You need to pay players to come to your club, it's just how it is. If we give him what he wants there's a fair chance he'll give us what we want.

Zaine Cordy is as good as Lobb for half the price.

[jeemak]

Zaine Cordy is as good as Lobb for half the price.

Is this the introduction to the opposite sketches?

If so, you can't do that on WOOF.

[MrMahatma]

Lobb sucked tonight and would be dropped by Bevo. As intense as Schache. I’m off him. Don’t trade him in. He won’t get played.

[Go_Dogs]

Just a bit surprised with the poll results so far because a few weeks back it seemed the vibe of getting him was a lot stronger than it is now.

Lobb is “ok” but he’s not a difference maker.

Darcy has also shown he can become a consistent AFL player sooner rather than later.

Despite a poor showing in the last 2.5 quarters last week, I don’t think Lobb wins us that game.

I can see why we are cooling, it will come down to price I suspect. If Freo need to space for Jackson and we can hold them over a barrel with the draft pick, great - why not. If it’s a higher ask, well let’s have a look elsewhere.

Logue and Darcy Gardiner as key defenders
Grundy is probably only viable if Dunkley leaves - could we pry Meek or Pruess?
A small forward with some goal sense and close down speed - unsure who fits the bill
If West / Garcia aren’t the long term Libba replacement we need to address that too, via draft maybe

[Scraggers]

As soon as Darcy was played in the forward line, the chase for Lobb (for me) stopped. Darcy played the exact role we are looking to do with Lobb. He is now superfluous to our needs. It’s still a no from me.

[DOG GOD]

Lobb is “ok” but he’s not a difference maker.

Darcy has also shown he can become a consistent AFL player sooner rather than later.

Despite a poor showing in the last 2.5 quarters last week, I don’t think Lobb wins us that game.

I can see why we are cooling, it will come down to price I suspect. If Freo need to space for Jackson and we can hold them over a barrel with the draft pick, great - why not. If it’s a higher ask, well let’s have a look elsewhere.

Logue and Darcy Gardiner as key defenders
Grundy is probably only viable if Dunkley leaves - could we pry Meek or Pruess?
A small forward with some goal sense and close down speed - unsure who fits the bill
If West / Garcia aren’t the long term Libba replacement we need to address that too, via draft maybe

I’m also cooling on Lobb.

I’d much rather go for a genuine #1 ruck and have English as #2. That serves us better imho.

If we aren’t going hard for Logue I won’t be happy…another key defender with him is a must.

If the small fwd we are looking at is Rowe, then we might as well fast track Arthur

Got a feeling we will see Lobb, Jones and Rowe in the RWB next year
And take the Dunkley pic to the draft.

If that was our trade week outcome, I’ll be very disappointed, but not surprised in the least.

[Scraggers]

I’m also cooling on Lobb.

I’d much rather go for a genuine #1 ruck and have English as #2. That serves us better imho.

If we aren’t going hard for Logue I won’t be happy…another key defender with him is a must.

If the small fwd we are looking at is Rowe, then we might as well fast track Arthur

Got a feeling we will see Lobb, Jones and Rowe in the RWB next year
And take the Dunkley pic to the draft.

If that was our trade week outcome, I’ll be very disappointed, but not surprised in the least.

Agree with all this. I would also love to see Arthur fast-tracked

[GVGjr]

Agree with all this. I would also love to see Arthur fast-tracked

I'm just not this can be done given the way Footscray is performing.

[bornadog]

If we aren’t going hard for Logue I won’t be happy…another key defender with him is a must.

I don't see Logue as a KPP. Good player but not a CHB or FB.

[The Underdog]

Agree with all this. I would also love to see Arthur fast-tracked

Pretty sure he was always picked with the theory that he’d probably be a slow track guy. Not sure there has been any indication from Jones in the VFL that we can change that.

[josie]

Zaine Cordy is as good as Lobb for half the price.

I beg to differ. Not saying Lobb is Ablett like either.

[bornadog]

Pretty sure he was always picked with the theory that he’d probably be a slow track guy. Not sure there has been any indication from Jones in the VFL that we can change that.

His first year he showed very little. Hopefully he can start to show something next season.

[azabob]

Ever since the move was first discussed I've been against going for Lobb.

Since then i've gone back and forth if we should get him or not.

Watching him Saturday he was the only docker who seemed to be able to take the game on.

But...

Is his less laconic than Josh Schache?
He attacked contests one handed on a few times (this hasn't change from his GWS days).
He does not like to ruck, he does not like to be 2nd ruck
He requested a trade from GWS to Freo at the end of 2018
He requested a trade from Freo to GWS at the end of 2021 (whilst under contract)

For mine he doesn't necessarily chase team success, it is more what can I get out of this.

It is clear we need a second ruck with some height and jump.

I'm just not sure Lobb is our man.

[Bullies]

Pretty sure he was always picked with the theory that he’d probably be a slow track guy. Not sure there has been any indication from Jones in the VFL that we can change that. Agree the kid is very raw and was always going to be a project player as such for the first couple of years to develop his strength and teach him the game as such. One of the reasons they played him on the wing. Will make an excellent roaming forward once his tank develops a little more. No need to fast track him as they believe he is coming along where they expect him to be at this stage.

[Mofra]

We chased Soldo last year and he might be 'gettable' this year with the Tigers clearing cap.
Do we target Soldo (again) instead?

[azabob]

We chased Soldo last year and he might be 'gettable' this year with the Tigers clearing cap.
Do we target Soldo (again) instead?

If we do it will get messy.

I think the problem we will face is that if we chase Soldo we may need to pay more trade wise as Richmond will be chasing draft picks to send onto GWS.

I'd prefer Soldo over Lobb.

[Bullies]

If we do it will get messy.

I think the problem we will face is that if we chase Soldo we may need to pay more trade wise as Richmond will be chasing draft picks to send onto GWS.

I'd prefer Soldo over Lobb. The other problem will be that we have already committed to Lobbe by all accounts.

[Mofra]

The other problem will be that we have already committed to Lobbe by all accounts.
Has he committed to us though?
I won't take anything to the bank until a contract is signed.

[azabob]

Has he committed to us though?
I won't take anything to the bank until a contract is signed.

Adam Ramansakas doesn't think it is a done deal either.

[Axe Man]

The other problem will be that we have already committed to Lobbe by all accounts.

God I hope not, Matthew Lobbe has been retired for years! ;)

[azabob]

God I hope not, Matthew Lobbe has been retired for years! ;)

Gee whiz; when did we offer up our first round draft pick for him?

[azabob]

Forgetting I don't want Lobb for a moment.

He is contracted until end of 2023 would we prefer to sign him on

2 x $750K = $1.5m
3 x $500K = $1.5m

If we have cap space I'd prefer 2x $750K. At least then if he hits the wall we can move him on after 2024.

[Mofra]

Lobb alternatives as they stand:
Soldo (possible)
Ratagulea (potentially)
DFA from the state league like Ballenden or Crossley

Who do people prefer?

[Dancin' Douggy]

god I hope we don't go after Lobb. I think he is very average and unreliable and I'll find it very hard to stomach him in our guernsey.

Of all the players in the league we could chase why the hell do we focus on him?

[Axe Man]

Lobb alternatives as they stand:
Soldo (possible)
Ratagulea (potentially)
DFA from the state league like Ballenden or Crossley

Who do people prefer?

I briefly saw Crossley playing for Southport yesterday and let's just say BAD would not be complimentary of his current body shape. He did feature in the best though. That aside I doubt there's much point getting a player like him as we wouldn't play him.

[westbulldog]

I beg to differ. Not saying Lobb is Ablett like either.
My post was somewhat tongue in cheek, my inference being Lobb doesn't represent any value to us based on what he offers and what he would get paid.

[G-Mo77]

I saw briefly saw Crossley playing for Southport yesterday and let's just say BAD would not be complimentary of his current body shape. He did feature in the best though. That aside I doubt there's much point getting a player like him as we wouldn't play him.

That's got to be that Gold Coast Suns player right? The one that the commentators gushed about all dam game when we played them? If that's the one I thought he'd have a Brownlow by now. :D

[Axe Man]

That's got to be that Gold Coast Suns player right? The one that the commentators gushed about all dam game when we played them? If that's the one I thought he'd have a Brownlow by now. :D

Yes used to play for the suns before he tested positive for cocaine after a NEAFL match and got banned for 12 months. I went to the game in Ballarat when he debuted against us in 2018 so not sure what the commentators were saying.

[hujsh]

Yes used to play for the suns before he tested positive for cocaine after a NEAFL match and got banned for 12 months. I went to the game in Ballarat when he debuted against us in 2018 so not sure what the commentators were saying.

Oh they were RAVING about how amazing he was. I remember it being pretty odd. Was he someone's nephew or something?

That said he didn't look terrible from what I remember so I could see him being a handy player for someone when ready

[Sedat]

All I remmeber about Crossley was he had a serious handlebar moustache for someone who was only 19yo. He probably looks about 48yo now.

[bornadog]

All I remmeber about Crossley was he had a serious handlebar moustache for someone who was only 19yo. He probably looks about 48yo now.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS9SHYyV9JX8UjbW96RCMSWVB0SS_ABh3T2Gw&usqp=CAU

[Axe Man]

All I remmeber about Crossley was he had a serious handlebar moustache for someone who was only 19yo. He probably looks about 48yo now.

Bruce Doull vibes.
https://i.postimg.cc/wjmTkC0r/gettyimages-1403780995-612x612.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[G-Mo77]

Oh they were RAVING about how amazing he was. I remember it being pretty odd. Was he someone's nephew or something?

That said he didn't look terrible from what I remember so I could see him being a handy player for someone when ready

Yeah, he played alright but my gosh did they go on about him. I think it was Dermie and Russell behind the mic. Maybe he hooked them up with white powder before the match?

[Twodogs]

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS9SHYyV9JX8UjbW96RCMSWVB0SS_ABh3T2Gw&usqp=CAU

I reckon Bevo would love having a mo like that around the club.

[Bulldog4life]

Jon Ralph
@RalphyHeraldSun
Sep 11
A summer of huge change at the Dockers awaits. Longmuir wants an answer soon on departing players but given Rory Lobb's partner has already moved into their new inner-city Melbourne house that might be a fair hint. The details here on who wants out. Could Henry be one of them?

[GVGjr]

It's being mentioned that Lobb has his exit interview tomorrow and the indication is that he will ask for a trade to us.

[bornadog]

It's being mentioned that Lobb has his exit interview tomorrow and the indication is that he will ask for a trade to us.

According to Jake Nial, if the Dockers lose Logue, they will refuse to trade Lobb. Lobb has a year left on his contract

[The Bulldogs Bite]

It's being mentioned that Lobb has his exit interview tomorrow and the indication is that he will ask for a trade to us.

If that happens, I hope we don't waste time trying to appease Fremantle with a trade. If it's a second round pick, set a deadline and then move on.

[GVGjr]

If that happens, I hope we don't waste time trying to appease Fremantle with a trade. If it's a second round pick, set a deadline and then move on.

I like that suggestion, his contract next year is for 750K so if we are to pick up that we can't overpay on a draft pick.
We need to get a deal or two done before that last trading day frenzy.

[GVGjr]

According to Jake Nial, if the Dockers lose Logue, they will refuse to trade Lobb. Lobb has a year left on his contract

Jake is normally around the mark but I think he might have this one wrong.

[hujsh]

I like that suggestion, his contract next year is for 750K so if we are to pick up that we can't overpay on a draft pick.
We need to get a deal or two done before that last trading day frenzy.

Literally doesn't matter if he signs a new contract with us (and the agreed salary doesn't look over the top)

[1eyedog]

You'd think we would need to honour the last year of Lobb's contract. Freo won't be making any contribution to it that's for sure.

[hujsh]

You'd think we would need to honour the last year of Lobb's contract. Freo won't be making any contribution to it that's for sure.

Then he's super cheap for the remaining 2 years. Not a massive issue IMO

[1eyedog]

Then he's super cheap for the remaining 2 years. Not a massive issue IMO

Let's hope that's the case. Would assume we're happy with where things are at with him.

[hujsh]

Let's hope that's the case. Would assume we're happy with where things are at with him.

Sure it's assuming the reports are true. However it works out if the average is 500k a year then if 750k is frontloaded in year 1 the remaining 2 years are 375k a year or thereabouts. I can live with that.

[G-Mo77]

You'd think we would need to honour the last year of Lobb's contract. Freo won't be making any contribution to it that's for sure.

With this exodus I think they're clearing money for Jackson and in this case position. Jackson takes Lobb's spot, they don't really need him if they land Jackson and maybe they're financially strained, essentially they're pushing him out the door. They don't hold all the cards in this situation.

[GVGjr]

Literally doesn't matter if he signs a new contract with us (and the agreed salary doesn't look over the top)

It might be more around them getting 750K off their books

[azabob]

Being reported in The Age that Fremantle will be informing Rory Lobb he is a required player if Griffen Logue leaves.

[GVGjr]

Being reported in The Age that Fremantle will be informing Rory Lobb he is a required player if Griffen Logue leaves.

It's going to be a fascinating trade period with many twists and turns.
I'd say nearly 50% of the supporters that are interested in the trade period machinations will be happy that Lobb might not be available.

[The Doctor]

Make me a Bulldog

https://www.afl.com.au/news/842704/make-me-a-bulldog-lobb-to-ask-dockers-for-trade

[Dancin' Douggy]

It's going to be a fascinating trade period with many twists and turns.
I'd say nearly 50% of the supporters that are interested in the trade period machinations will be happy that Lobb might not be available.

Yeah I really really don’t want him.

[GVGjr]

Being reported in The Age that Fremantle will be informing Rory Lobb he is a required player if Griffen Logue leaves.

I wonder if this is a well thought out ploy to get us to cough up more in a trade?

[Mofra]

I wonder if this is a well thought out ploy to get us to cough up more in a trade?
Lobb and Logue have the same manager (Young).
Logue is out of contract and his reported destination hold pick 1 in the PSD. Very dangerous game Freo are playing - didn't they kick up a stink when GWS held Cam McCarthy to his contract?

[F'scary]

If we get him, where does he play?

If it is changing ruck/FP with Tinglish, then there has to be no room for Bruce if Naughton and Ugle-Hagan are the keys.

If it is as a key forward, then there is still no room for Bruce.

If we recruit Lobb, the final year of Bruce's contract will be spent in the VFL as back up full forward.

[Happy Days]

So Melbourne has an incredible first ruck and are targeting another gun first ruck to fill their forward/ruck hole, and we have an incredible forward/ruck and are targeting another forward/ruck to fill our first ruck hole. Makes sense.

I know I advocated for Lobb previously, and I still think if we wind up with him that he’s a good player that makes us better, but a lot of parts have shifted and a much better solution to our actual issues has emerged. It’s not too late Dogs. I am begging that we reconsider our approach.

[MrMahatma]

I just don't reckon he'll be played. I think his best is good but he has the Schache's about him when it comes to looking like he's trying.

I think getting him would be a mistake. He'll play 2-3 of the first next year and then be in/out for a bit and probably rot for much of his 2nd/3rd years on contract.

Don't do it.

[westbulldog]

Is this the introduction to the opposite sketches?

If so, you can't do that on WOOF.

:confused: alas that is far too intellectual for me :) in any event 1. we don't need Lobb at all 2. After not chasing Grundy I would suggest Dockers Logue and Meek (Freo will have Darcy and Jackson) better suit our needs over Lobb any day of the week 3. Why are we looking at Rowe, he is average at best and we already have Weightman, Garcia, (unfortunately) O'Neill, Scott, Arthur Jones and Bedendo 4. Liam Jones will slightly improve our defence not solve the problem.

[Mofra]

If we get him, where does he play?

If it is changing ruck/FP with Tinglish, then there has to be no room for Bruce if Naughton and Ugle-Hagan are the keys.

If it is as a key forward, then there is still no room for Bruce.

If we recruit Lobb, the final year of Bruce's contract will be spent in the VFL as back up full forward.
Bruce looks coooked. Lobb right now is a better forward and second ruck

[mjp]

Lobb and Logue have the same manager (Young).
Logue is out of contract and his reported destination hold pick 1 in the PSD. Very dangerous game Freo are playing - didn't they kick up a stink when GWS held Cam McCarthy to his contract?

We aren't comparing a homesick 18 yo to a 30 year old who only 12-months ago asked to return to the club from whence he came (GWS) only to go on and have his best season?

Lobb has a contract and Freo are right to stick to their guns.

Logue is another issue of course and they DO need to tread carefully I guess...you can't have players leaving for nothing.

[Axe Man]

Why are we looking at Rowe, he is average at best and we already have Weightman, Garcia, (unfortunately) O'Neill, Scott, Arthur Jones and Bedendo

Opinions seem varied on Rowe as to whether is AFL quality and works hard enough, but that aside he is a natural crumbing forward and none of those names above are. It is a glaring hole on our list, whether Rowe is the right man to fill it is the only question.

[GVGjr]

If we get him, where does he play?

If it is changing ruck/FP with Tinglish, then there has to be no room for Bruce if Naughton and Ugle-Hagan are the keys.

If it is as a key forward, then there is still no room for Bruce.

If we recruit Lobb, the final year of Bruce's contract will be spent in the VFL as back up full forward.

While there are some obvious benefits about adding Lobb to our list bringing him in next year does add some complexity with providing opportunities for Ugle-Hagan and Darcy.

Naughton, Bruce and Lobb looks to be a very competitive tall forward 3.
Naughton has kicked 98 goals over the last 2 seasons
Bruce kicked 48 goals in 2021 and I'm somewhat confident he can return to form next year.
Lobb kicked 36 goals this year and can provide a better chop out for English than Bruce can.
Ugle-Hagan would cover any injuries or form slumps and Darcy might have to settle in as a defender.

If we were to move Naughton to the back line, and I'm not saying we should, it would solve 2 potential challenges we face.

It will be interesting to see how we manage this.

[Rocco Jones]

With Lobb, those who don't want him, as in to the degree they hope the deal falls over...is it a combo of not rating him + not rating the club list management skills? Not trying to make a statement here, I respect the forum. Genuinely intrigued whether it's a combo of both. It would kinda have to be really I guess.

[Sedat]

Bruce looks cooked
He does but the big boys take a while to come good after a knee reco. Hipwood has been awful most of the last 3 months since he came back from his reco, but has started to come good and in a big way. Not saying Bruce will follow the same trajectory but it is possible.

If Lobb is the answer, we are asking the wrong question.

[Mofra]

We aren't comparing a homesick 18 yo to a 30 year old who only 12-months ago asked to return to the club from whence he came (GWS) only to go on and have his best season?

Lobb has a contract and Freo are right to stick to their guns.

Logue is another issue of course and they DO need to tread carefully I guess...you can't have players leaving for nothing.
They may have the right to hold Lobb to his contract, but at what cost?
If there are flow on effects (e.g. Logue) Freo would have to consider them.

FWIW I'm not sure a Lobb deal gets done - not only do Freo have to let him go at all, they also have to agree on what we're willing to pay for him and both Power and Bell are known to play tough when they have to.

[Sedat]

With Lobb, those who don't want him, as in to the degree they hope the deal falls over...is it a combo of not rating him + not rating the club list management skills? Not trying to make a statement here, I respect the forum. Genuinely intrigued whether it's a combo of both. It would kinda have to be really I guess.
For me he doesn't fill our most pressing need (no 1 ruck), he is inconsistent, he's not young and he will cost a lot for the privilege. But more importantly, we already have a younger and frankly better quality Lobb forward/ruck hybrid type - his name is English and he's also 5 years younger. We all know Lobb won't be suddenly doing 50% ruck time (if he did that might sway the argument), and in any event he's not great at it and doesn't really want to do it anyway (although he looked like Polly Farmer when rucking against English 2 weeks ago).

The whole ruck/2nd ruck situation actually boggles the mind. Our needs are clear and obvious but we are going down a completely different path that won't materially help us improve in the areas that drastically need it, and we will be paying a high price to boot.

We need to find a proper no 1 ruckman. There's this bloke by the name or Grundy who might be available, and evidently he won't cost a great deal more in 2023 than the 750k Lobb is guaranteed to receive.

[F'scary]

While there are some obvious benefits about adding Lobb to our list bringing him in next year does add some complexity with providing opportunities for Ugle-Hagan and Darcy.

Naughton, Bruce and Lobb looks to be a very competitive tall forward 3.
Naughton has kicked 98 goals over the last 2 seasons
Bruce kicked 48 goals in 2021 and I'm somewhat confident he can return to form next year.
Lobb kicked 36 goals this year and can provide a better chop out for English than Bruce can.
Ugle-Hagan would cover any injuries or form slumps and Darcy might have to settle in as a defender.

If we were to move Naughton to the back line, and I'm not saying we should, it would solve 2 potential challenges we face.

It will be interesting to see how we manage this.

Dilemmas everywhere. But perhaps this would be a good spot to be in.

Looks like Schache is off the list and Cordy too, especially if we go down the Jones route (I am ok with this but only on a 1 year contract). I am not convinced about Bruce. I base this not just off his return (which was like playing one short, he was so ineffective) but my impression of his games leading up to the injury. In my opinion, he went missing almost completely when the games were in the balance, he got his goals after they had been decided.

[Grantysghost]

With Lobb, those who don't want him, as in to the degree they hope the deal falls over...is it a combo of not rating him + not rating the club list management skills? Not trying to make a statement here, I respect the forum. Genuinely intrigued whether it's a combo of both. It would kinda have to be really I guess.

Prior to this season I thought he was a really inconsistent player.

I don't know why but I get the feeling this might be his retirement contract and he might go back to his old ways.

His body of work doesn't inspire me.

If we get him at a reasonable price, I'm ok with it. I've gone from hard no, to hmm maybe.

[GVGjr]

With Lobb, those who don't want him, as in to the degree they hope the deal falls over...is it a combo of not rating him + not rating the club list management skills? Not trying to make a statement here, I respect the forum. Genuinely intrigued whether it's a combo of both. It would kinda have to be really I guess.

My guess there is a few components here.
From a team balance perspective
Last year Marra was spinning his wheels but later this season he ran into some good form so potentially limiting his opportunities next season won't sit well with many supporters.
I don't think we can play 4 tall forwards so it's going to be a juggling act.

The player
He has basically been Fremantle's key forward this year and yet coming to us he could be as the 3rd wheel. Is that a great fit?
He will be 30 before he plays for us and it's a 3 year deal he is after so that won't sit well with some supporters.
Is the main attraction of bringing him in he fact that he can provide those 5 minute a quarter chop outs for English?

He should make us a better side but will he make us a top 6 side should probably be the question.

[Rocco Jones]

My guess there is a few components here.
From a team balance perspective
Last year Marra was spinning his wheels but later this season he ran into some good form so potentially limiting his opportunities next season won't sit well with many supporters.
I don't think we can play 4 tall forwards so it's going to be a juggling act.

The player
He has basically been Fremantle's key forward this year and yet coming to us he could be as the 3rd wheel. Is that a great fit?
He will be 30 before he plays for us and it's a 3 year deal he is after so that won't sit well with some supporters.
Is the main attraction of bringing him in he fact that he can provide those 5 minute a quarter chop outs for English?

He should make us a better side but will he make us a top 6 side should probably be the question.

Yep, that makes sense.

For mine it is really hard to judge without knowing how much we are going to pay him and what we are giving away.

My real question though, is the reluctance in part to now rating the club's ability to manage the list.

[Dancin' Douggy]

I actually think it make more sense for Lobb to part of the Jackson trade and he would suit Melbourne's needs more than ours. Hopefully someone out there can convince Melbourne to do this. HOPEFULLY!

[bornadog]

I actually think it make more sense for Lobb to part of the Jackson trade and he would suit Melbourne's needs more than ours. Hopefully someone out there can convince Melbourne to do this. HOPEFULLY!

If not Lobb, what is your solution to second ruck?

[azabob]

If not Lobb, what is your solution to second ruck?

Timmy English!!! :);)

[Mofra]

For me he doesn't fill our most pressing need (no 1 ruck), he is inconsistent, he's not young and he will cost a lot for the privilege. But more importantly, we already have a younger and frankly better quality Lobb forward/ruck hybrid type - his name is English and he's also 5 years younger. We all know Lobb won't be suddenly doing 50% ruck time (if he did that might sway the argument), and in any event he's not great at it and doesn't really want to do it anyway (although he looked like Polly Farmer when rucking against English 2 weeks ago).

The whole ruck/2nd ruck situation actually boggles the mind. Our needs are clear and obvious but we are going down a completely different path that won't materially help us improve in the areas that drastically need it, and we will be paying a high price to boot.

We need to find a proper no 1 ruckman. There's this bloke by the name or Grundy who might be available, and evidently he won't cost a great deal more in 2023 than the 750k Lobb is guaranteed to receive.
We're hitched our wagon to the English stallion - he's our no 1 ruck going forward. We're not chasing an English replacement and sending English forward.

[bornadog]

We're hitched our wagon to the English stallion - he's our no 1 ruck going forward. We're not chasing an English replacement and sending English forward.

No one has a realistic solution to second ruck - so Lobb it is.

[Happy Days]

We're hitched our wagon to the English stallion - he's our no 1 ruck going forward. We're not chasing an English replacement and sending English forward.

But why? How many finals series in a row does he need to get punked out in to reshape our thinking?

[Sedat]

We're hitched our wagon to the English stallion - he's our no 1 ruck going forward. We're not chasing an English replacement and sending English forward.
Sigh, I know :(

[Mofra]

But why? How many finals series in a row does he need to get punked out in to reshape our thinking?
I'm not arguing for it, just stating the reality of it. English has publicly said he wants to be the no 1 man and Bevo has backed him in.
We chased Soldo last year and Lobb this year as a forward/second ruck.

[Grantysghost]

But why? How many finals series in a row does he need to get punked out in to reshape our thinking?

Surely it's not still the tail wagging the dog.

[Grantysghost]

I'm not arguing for it, just stating the reality of it. English has publicly said he wants to be the no 1 man and Bevo has backed him in.
We chased Soldo last year and Lobb this year as a forward/second ruck.

He played about 80 percent ruck time this season in game, do you think that this will change with Lobb? Like a 70/30, 60/40?

[EasternWest]

If not Lobb, what is your solution to second ruck?

Josh Dunkley. Oh, wait.

Josh Schache. Oh, wait.

[Sedat]

I'm not arguing for it, just stating the reality of it. English has publicly said he wants to be the no 1 man and Bevo has backed him in.
So if we fail to win the premiership in 2023 (or materially improve to become a top 4 team at the very least), if the ruck conundrum continues to be a major structural problem against the best teams, and if the development of JUH and Darcy stalls and is compromised, how will we all be feeling in 12 months time about both Bevo and English?

There's a lot of ifs in there I know.

Let me state for the record that I will be the first to apologise if English suddenly becomes the 2nd coming of Simon Madden and consistently destroys the quality opposition ruckmen that have until now destroyed him, Lobb becomes a damaging forward/ruck and we win the premiership next year. You can all let fly with the rotten fruit while I wallow in the stocks.

[Dancin' Douggy]

If not Lobb, what is your solution to second ruck?

Well, an actual ruckman. Grundy if we can make it work. I haven't really scanned every list. But Lobb has never really impressed me and I feel we're massively overpaying him.

[angelopetraglia]

Freo to play hardball and hold him to his contract if they lose Griffin Logue https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/dockers-drop-anchor-lobb-stays-if-logue-goes-20220913-p5bhtw.html

[Testekill]

This is an opportunistic trade and not one out of necessity. Hold firm on the second rounder and back off if they want anything else, the big problem with our midfield and forward line is that they're poorly coached and drilled which is something that Lobb isn't going to help with.

[Grantysghost]

Josh Dunkley. Oh, wait.

Josh Schache. Oh, wait.

Josh Brolin would be badass.

[hujsh]

So if we fail to win the premiership in 2023 (or materially improve to become a top 4 team at the very least), if the ruck conundrum continues to be a major structural problem against the best teams, and if the development of JUH and Darcy stalls and is compromised, how will we all be feeling in 12 months time about both Bevo and English?

There's a lot of ifs in there I know.

Let me state for the record that I will be the first to apologise if English suddenly becomes the 2nd coming of Simon Madden and consistently destroys the quality opposition ruckmen that have until now destroyed him, Lobb becomes a damaging forward/ruck and we win the premiership next year. You can all let fly with the rotten fruit while I wallow in the stocks.

It must be a written apology, hand delivered to the English estate or their nominated representative, notarized and the envelope must be sealed with your own blood. No other methods will be acceptable for daring to question the majesty of Sir English the Bold.

[hujsh]

Freo to play hardball and hold him to his contract if they lose Griffin Logue https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/dockers-drop-anchor-lobb-stays-if-logue-goes-20220913-p5bhtw.html

Fine, fine I guess we can sort this out. Lets keep Freo happy and trade them Schache and Cordy so they can let both go (to us)

[MrMahatma]

With Lobb, those who don't want him, as in to the degree they hope the deal falls over...is it a combo of not rating him + not rating the club list management skills? Not trying to make a statement here, I respect the forum. Genuinely intrigued whether it's a combo of both. It would kinda have to be really I guess.

Personally, it's more I don't think he'll get played enough - so maybe that's a list management thing, at least in part.

I also have the following questions/concerns:
1. I believe that Naughton, Darcy & JUH will all be forwards, and good ones. I believe that playing together in the same fwd line is important to build chemistry. We COULD put Lobb in there and play Darcy back but outside of giving him experience, which is good, but I don't think it actually helps the forward chemistry thing. I don't expect Bruce to play too many matches next year. If he does, it compounds things further.
2. Surely within another 2 years, we're wanting Darcy in as the fwd/ruck? If so, where does Lobb fit? 3 years we're offering. Is he then insurance? I guess that's OK?
3. If we're going to compromise the Naughton, Darcy, JUH fwd chemistry...I'm probably more, of recent times, with the crew of getting a #1 ruck and Tim playing the Ruck/Fwd. Even just for 1 or 2 years.

In some ways it's like we were DESPERATE for Lobb at the beginning of this season, but we're now going to get him a year late? Like Barry Hall.

If we do get him and he plays regularly, then I still think Bruce doesn't play, and Lobb plays Ruck/Fwd, and Darcy plays defence. That's not an awful solution. So I'm not rooting for the deal to fall over. It's probably more that it's not my preferred outcome and I'm not sure how they all play together.

[bornadog]

Personally, it's more I don't think he'll get played enough - so maybe that's a list management thing, at least in part.

I also have the following questions/concerns:
1. I believe that Naughton, Darcy & JUH will all be forwards, and good ones. I believe that playing together in the same fwd line is important to build chemistry. We COULD put Lobb in there and play Darcy back but outside of giving him experience, which is good, but I don't think it actually helps the forward chemistry thing. I don't expect Bruce to play too many matches next year. If he does, it compounds things further.
2. Surely within another 2 years, we're wanting Darcy in as the fwd/ruck? If so, where does Lobb fit? 3 years we're offering. Is he then insurance? I guess that's OK?
3. If we're going to compromise the Naughton, Darcy, JUH fwd chemistry...I'm probably more, of recent times, with the crew of getting a #1 ruck and Tim playing the Ruck/Fwd. Even just for 1 or 2 years.

In some ways it's like we were DESPERATE for Lobb at the beginning of this season, but we're now going to get him a year late? Like Barry Hall.

If we do get him and he plays regularly, then I still think Bruce doesn't play, and Lobb plays Ruck/Fwd, and Darcy plays defence. That's not an awful solution. So I'm not rooting for the deal to fall over. It's probably more that it's not my preferred outcome and I'm not sure how they all play together.

Darcy is no certainty to play forward. He may play back.

[Mofra]

So if we fail to win the premiership in 2023 (or materially improve to become a top 4 team at the very least), if the ruck conundrum continues to be a major structural problem against the best teams, and if the development of JUH and Darcy stalls and is compromised, how will we all be feeling in 12 months time about both Bevo and English?

There's a lot of ifs in there I know.

Let me state for the record that I will be the first to apologise if English suddenly becomes the 2nd coming of Simon Madden and consistently destroys the quality opposition ruckmen that have until now destroyed him, Lobb becomes a damaging forward/ruck and we win the premiership next year. You can all let fly with the rotten fruit while I wallow in the stocks.
Well Bevo and English are OOC next year IIRC.
Bevo's been at the club a while - will he get stale?

[G-Mo77]

Freo to play hardball and hold him to his contract if they lose Griffin Logue https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/dockers-drop-anchor-lobb-stays-if-logue-goes-20220913-p5bhtw.html

Bit of posturing here I think. They don't want him if they get Jackson and they don't want to pay him either. I'm confident it'll get done.

[EasternWest]

Josh Brolin would be badass.

Well he really protected the young kids in Goonies despite starting as a bit of a douche, so why not?

[G-Mo77]

And one more thing to add.....

"Hey you, get your dam hands off her"

[Sedat]

Well Bevo and English are OOC next year IIRC.
Bevo's been at the club a while - will he get stale?
2023 is not a gap year. It is another prime 'Bont' year that I hope doesn't go to waste.

Bevo and the club have already put on record that we are in the window - their words, not mine. We should expect nothing less than to be a very serious contender next year with designs on winning the premiership.

[Axe Man]

Well Bevo and English are OOC next year IIRC.
Bevo's been at the club a while - will he get stale?

English recently re-signed for 2 years.

[Topdog]

For me Lobb has had 2 maybe 3 good years in his career. He is 30, not a good enough body of work for me to get excited.

[Testekill]

For me Lobb has had 2 maybe 3 good years in his career. He is 30, not a good enough body of work for me to get excited.

Only kicked more than 30 goals in a season once. Meanwhile Naughton has already passed him for career goals kicked.

[1eyedog]

Lobb is not my first choice by a fair margin but you can't deny that Bruce is a risk, Darcy may only play 6-8 games next year, Jamarra got gifted games he didn't deserve this year and Naughton needs a consistent, genuine contested marking player to help him. The more experienced the better.

[1eyedog]

Only kicked more than 30 goals in a season once. Meanwhile Naughton has already passed him for career goals kicked.

I watched the 2016 PF last night Lobb was just about their best player. He's inconsistent but seems to play really well when he is surrounded by Bulldogs so it's a gamble worth taking.

[Mofra]

Lobb is an opportunistic play. If he wasn't set to come back to Vic I'm not sure we'd chase him too hard

[GVGjr]

Lobb is an opportunistic play. If he wasn't set to come back to Vic I'm not sure we'd chase him too hard

His 1.85M purchase of a place in South Yarra is a strong indication he's heading over.
Is it because of clubs over here have been flagging their interest?

[ratsmac]

Darcy is no certainty to play forward. He may play back.
Naughton may play back!!

[Rocco Jones]

With English, I am a bit in between with him being R1 or R2.

I don't mind him being mostly in the ruck but would like to see a bit more of a balance. He can have passages where he struggles to be competitive. That issue for mine is really made worse as we don't have a real R2, just a guy who makes up the minutes.

A strength of Lobb is his endurance. Massive TOG for a non KPD. English and Lobb to be more a tandem than a pure R1 and R2/fwd perhaps. Unless English goes up a level.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Naughton may play back!!

That works. Darcy is a better kick on goal. Naughts is tougher on the body down back.

[Happy Days]

Are we prepared for when Lobb outperforms Tim in the ruck next year? Is Tim prepared for that?

[Rocco Jones]

Are we prepared for when Lobb outperforms Tim in the ruck next year? Is Tim prepared for that?

My biggest issue with English as R1 is (if it's correct) Timmy demanding it. It's cool if he is doing it in terms of wanting to take on the challenge but if we giving him the role due to be scared he will leave, it's really problematic.

[azabob]

English recently re-signed for 2 years.

Insert contract thread joke here.

[Grantysghost]

Insert contract thread joke here.

No idea what you're talking about.

Bruce's goals don't count.

[Grantysghost]

My biggest issue with English as R1 is (if it's correct) Timmy demanding it. It's cool if he is doing it in terms of wanting to take on the challenge but if we giving him the role due to be scared he will leave, it's really problematic.

RJ is this the most blown out of proportion titbit of info ever?
I can not believe we would let a player have that much say. Especially Bevo who destroys worlds.

I'm calling furphy.

[Sedat]

Are we prepared for when Lobb outperforms Tim in the ruck next year?
Like he did 2 weeks ago?

[Rocco Jones]

RJ is this the most blown out of proportion titbit of info ever?
I can not believe we would let a player have that much say. Especially Bevo who destroys worlds.

I'm calling furphy.

I am not trying to make a statement either way. I have no idea if it is a demand, as in do it or I will leave. If he asked for 1st ruck, in a request/wanting challenge, cool.

[Rocco Jones]

Like he did 2 weeks ago?


I am with you on the issues Tim has had in the deepest waters. I think he progressed this year as a true ruckman. I do not have the stats on it and I could be massively wrong, but he seems to play a vast majority of his time in the ruck. Some 1st rucks are a bit more split.

Being ruck/hard isn't English's strength. We double down a bit down with not having an actual ruck as our R2/fwd, just the least worst option there as a go to.

[bornadog]

Dockers duo ‘request trades’... but the club is ‘not entertaining’ one amid a mini-exodus (https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/teams/fremantle-dockers/afl-trade-news-2022-rory-lobb-trade-to-western-bulldogs-blake-acres-trade-to-carlton-fremantle-players-leaving/news-story/aef4326709bd219d28bed8e8f378f0ce)


Blake Acres and Rory Lobb have requested trades in their exit meetings on Wednesday, reports Seven’s Mitch Cleary.


However the Dockers are “not entertaining” Lobb’s request “as it stands” according to Seven Perth’s Ryan Daniels.


It was reported earlier this week Fremantle is willing to hold Lobb to his contract if swingman Griffin Logue leaves.

The Fremantle pair are seeking new starts in Victoria, with Acres asking to join Carlton and Lobb wanting a move to the Western Bulldogs.


Both players need to be traded to move. Acres is expected to sign a three-year deal to play under Michael Voss while Lobb is believed to be signing a three-year, $1.5 million deal once he gets to Luke Beveridge’s side.


Lobb and Acres would both be joining their third AFL clubs. Lobb played 74 of his 140 AFL games at GWS, while Acres featured 75 times for St Kilda before his 45 Dockers appearances.


Vision emerged on Wednesday of Acres emptying his locker at Dockers headquarters today.

Acres is one of at least six Dockers potentially on the move this trade period, along with Lobb, Logue, ruckman Lloyd Meek, wingman Darcy Tucker and small forward Liam Henry.


Lobb was one player in and out of the club quickly on Wednesday, after news emerged he’d purchased a $1.85 million home in South Yarra recently with his Melbourne-based partner.


Tucker was another Docker to depart the club on Wednesday with his locker possessions, limping out on crutches after hurting his knee in the WAFL this month.


Tucker was restricted to just 14 games this season as injury and form combined to keep him in the WAFL affiliate Peel Thunder.


The 25-year-old Victorian could be on the move back home, after just 108 games in seven seasons at Fremantle.


He’s been linked to North Melbourne in recent trade reports.

[hujsh]

With English, I am a bit in between with him being R1 or R2.

I don't mind him being mostly in the ruck but would like to see a bit more of a balance. He can have passages where he struggles to be competitive. That issue for mine is really made worse as we don't have a real R2, just a guy who makes up the minutes.

A strength of Lobb is his endurance. Massive TOG for a non KPD. English and Lobb to be more a tandem than a pure R1 and R2/fwd perhaps. Unless English goes up a level.

If it works there's no reason we can't say he's the number one ruck on paper but in practice have a CamHead RoughBoy type setup again.

The idea is growing on me personally because while English can have very good games as a ruck (yes even against good rucks like Gawn late in the year) sometimes he's just not on and he goes from a great asset to a liability. Being able to give him a spell when this happens will

a) save us/him from the humiliation of a public spanking
b) give English time to reset, refocus and adjust to come back into the game later (maybe)

[bornadog]

If it works there's no reason we can't say he's the number one ruck on paper but in practice have a CamHead RoughBoy type setup again.

The idea is growing on me personally because while English can have very good games as a ruck (yes even against good rucks like Gawn late in the year) sometimes he's just not on and he goes from a great asset to a liability. Being able to give him a spell when this happens will

a) save us/him from the humiliation of a public spanking
b) give English time to reset, refocus and adjust to come back into the game later (maybe)

English is a big asset around the ground, even when his ruck work is down.

[bornadog]

Has anyone got access to this article in HUN

Lobb city: Why Dogs are trading for Docker

[hujsh]

English is a big asset around the ground, even when his ruck work is down.

He is a big asset except on the days he's not being a big asset. I know he can have good 'groundwork' days when his ruck craft is off but he can have pretty uninvolved days in that area too.

[GVGjr]

Has anyone got access to this article in HUN

Lobb city: Why Dogs are trading for Docker

Western Bulldogs’ desire to bring in Rory Lobb (https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/trade-hq/afl-trades-geelong-eyes-collingwoods-oliver-henry-and-gws-giants-tanner-bruhn/news-story/05d23e613fec8338286db60b24ef3b51)has had mixed reviews. Now, the club has revealed its plan for the wantaway ruck-forward.

Western Bulldogs want to combine Rory Lobb, Aaron Naughton and Jamarra Ugle-Hagan in attack next season as part of plans to rejoin the premiership contenders.

Lobb, 29, is determined to land at the kennel in next month’s trade period after productive conversations with Bulldogs’ coach Luke Beveridge.

The ruck-forward remains contracted at Fremantle for one more season but is eager to continue his AFL career at a third club in 2023.

The Dogs will have to pull-off a trade deal with the Dockers to secure Lobb and could offer a future second-round draft pick to begin talks with Fremantle.

Lobb would provide another dynamic marking target in the forward half next year to star centre half forward Naughton and No. 1 pick Ugle-Hagan.

Sam Darcy could be switched back into defence alongside former Blue Liam Jones who will slot into a full-back role.

The Bulldogs are determined to stiffen their defensive operations for next season after bowing out in the elimination final on the back of a Grand Final last year.

Lobb bolsters their goal scoring power and helps lighten the load on Naughton who carried a huge responsibility in the forward half this year.

Fremantle has indicated it does not want to lose both talls Rory Lobb and Griffin Logue in this year’s exchange period.

However Lobb was hopeful of making a move this year after failing to secure a trade out of Fremantle last year when Greater Western Sydney showed some interest.

Lobb was under the impression the club would entertain a trade deal this year if he delivered for the team on the field this season.

Fremantle needs to be able to afford a blockbuster deal for Luke Jackson from Melbourne on a long-term contract worth more than $800,000 a season.

The Dockers are also dealing with the potential exits of Darcy Tucker, Blake Acres, Lloyd Meek and Logue.

[MrMahatma]

So Bruce is done?

[GVGjr]

So Bruce is done?

I don't think so but at best we get one decent to good year from him.
He was moving around OK when he returned but his timing was off. With a full pre-season behind him he should be OK. While it's hard to back him on what we saw when he returned this year I really do think we brought him back into the senior side too early and he struggled from there.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I don't think so but at best we get one decent to good year from him.
He was moving around OK when he returned but his timing was off. With a full pre-season behind him he should be OK. While it's hard to back him on what we saw when he returned this year I really do think we brought him back into the senior side too early and he struggled from there.

It's unfortunate because Juice is well liked, but year 1 was terrible, year 2 was mostly good but soured by the injury and year 3 was bad but understandable.

It hasn't quite worked out to date.

[Sedat]

English is a big asset around the ground, even when his ruck work is down.
Can you explain how English was anything other than a significant liability and major disappointment in our last 3 finals losses? That standard of performance is well under par and simply isn't going to get it done against the best teams in the competition.

He needs to get much better in big games if he is to command respect in the competition as a no 1 ruckman of repute. He is a player of immense talent but he lacks consistency of performance and desire to compete against the truly big dogs of the competition. I don't even know why this is being argued against. We have a 4 year sample size now.

Will Lobb's arrival help? Not if English continues to be used as no 1 ruck 90% of the time, which it appears to be the case with Lobb deployed primarily as part of a 3 pronged key forward set-up.

[bornadog]

. We have a 4 year sample size now.



2022 - aged 24 - started season as a 77 game player
2021 - 23 - started season as a 45 game player
2020 - 22 - started season as a 29 game player
2019 - 21 - started season as a 9 game player

Compare him to Nankervis at the same age and he is on par or better.

[1eyedog]

Can you explain how English was anything other than a significant liability and major disappointment in our last 3 finals losses? That standard of performance is well under par and simply isn't going to get it done against the best teams in the competition.

He needs to get much better in big games if he is to command respect in the competition as a no 1 ruckman of repute. He is a player of immense talent but he lacks consistency of performance and desire to compete against the truly big dogs of the competition. I don't even know why this is being argued against. We have a 4 year sample size now.

Will Lobb's arrival help? Not if English continues to be used as no 1 ruck 90% of the time, which it appears to be the case with Lobb deployed primarily as part of a 3 pronged key forward set-up.

Naughton has been terrible in finals too Chilli isn't on his Pat Malone there.

How do Naughton, Lobb, Marra and Bruce squeeze into the forward line? And what if Sam Darcy is actually a better forward than he is backman?

We went without a key forward for 20 years now we have too many.

[Mofra]

Naughton has been terrible in finals too Chilli isn't on his Pat Malone there.

How do Naughton, Lobb, Marra and Bruce squeeze into the forward line? And what if Sam Darcy is actually a better forward than he is backman?

We went without a key forward for 20 years now we have too many.
Lobb or Bruce. Not both.
If we're chasing Rowe (as rumoured), he plays and Weightman is a lock. Then a VDM/West/Garcia/Bailey Smith rotation off the HF line.

[Sedat]

Naughton has been terrible in finals too Chilli isn't on his Pat Malone there.
You're 100% right about Naughton in recent finals, he's been terribly disappointing. Especially in the 2021 GF where one hard lead would have ripped May's hamstring off the bone. He just wasn't proactive enough.

Lobb's arrival theoretically helps Naughton and JUH but as you say it creates a problem on our list with an overbalance of tall forwards. And I would argue that English would help Naughts and JUH just as much if not more if he was used as part of the 3 pronged forward set up. But some people seem to hold onto the notion that English is suddenly going to tear up the competition as no 1 ruck from 2023 onwards, when in reality he is getting well beaten by 2nd stringers in finals let alone getting completely annihilated by the big dogs.

What does my opinion matter anyway? We all know English has been backed in and will continue to be as no 1 ruck and for most of the game time. It's fun to dream of a Grundy play but it ain't going to happen. I hope we know what we are doing, because the Bont era is a finite resource.

[Sedat]

2022 - aged 24 - started season as a 77 game player
2021 - 23 - started season as a 45 game player
2020 - 22 - started season as a 29 game player
2019 - 21 - started season as a 9 game player

Compare him to Nankervis at the same age and he is on par or better.
What does age matter? Jackson destroyed him in 2021, Sean Darcy did likewise in 2022. Both are younger, but more importantly both got it done big time in a final against a very poorly performed opponent.

[Bulldog4life]

With Lobb the time in the ruck could be more like 65/35 with English of course the 65. Less time in the ruck for Tim to feel fatigued. Players change at full forward.

[Danjul]

It's unfortunate because Juice is well liked, but year 1 was terrible, year 2 was mostly good but soured by the injury and year 3 was bad but understandable.

It hasn't quite worked out to date.I agree with your facts but not your conclusion.

His first year should never have been as bad as it was. He should not have been on the field until he was fully fit. Having special consideration for his selection did nothing for team development, or his own progress, and ultimately led to it having an average year. (8 out of 18 isn’t very good).

This year his premature presence put a successful end to the season at risk. The team effectively played one man down and was saved by some good individual efforts.

I’m sure he always does his best, but in two of his three seasons his presence on the ground has highlighted the fact that the selection process is directed towards generating occasional miracles rather than ongoing success.

[bornadog]

What does age matter? Jackson destroyed him in 2021, Sean Darcy did likewise in 2022. Both are younger, but more importantly both got it done big time in a final against a very poorly performed opponent.

You very well know that some players take a lot longer to mature. Your favourite Nankervis, that you refer to, also took some time to come good as he matured.

I am not saying English is the greatest ruck in the AFL, but I cut him some slack when he has not had any support in the last 3 years. Martin has hardly been on the park, so English has had to be burdened with taking everyone on himself.

But, the way I see it, ruck is not our main problem. We have bigger issues - like defensive system which is broken.

Anyway after your 100th post on English is not good enough, I think I will not comment any longer.

[Grantysghost]

You very well know that some players take a lot longer to mature. Your favourite Nankervis, that you refer to, also took some time to come good as he matured.

I am not saying English is the greatest ruck in the AFL, but I cut him some slack when he has not had any support in the last 3 years. Martin has hardly been on the park, so English has had to be burdened with taking everyone on himself.

Anyway after your 100th post on English is not good enough, I think I will not comment any longer.

Nankervis is a different type though isn't he? I mean they both are "ruckman" but Nank is a bash and crash big body type whereas Tim is a skillful around the ground type.

In finals you probably need more Nank than English.

[westbulldog]

Opinions seem varied on Rowe as to whether is AFL quality and works hard enough, but that aside he is a natural crumbing forward and none of those names above are. It is a glaring hole on our list, whether Rowe is the right man to fill it is the only question.

So out of interest where would you play Weightman, Garcia, O'Neill, Scott, Arthur Jones and Bedendo or what positions if any do you think they might be suited ?

[westbulldog]

Imo Lobb needs us more than we need him, and my view is that we do not need him. Also, if English is calling the shots and the club (Bevo) is allowing it that is pathetic and gives English an importance he doesn't warrant.

[Axe Man]

So out of interest where would you play Weightman, Garcia, O'Neill, Scott, Arthur Jones and Bedendo or what positions if any do you think they might be suited ?

Weightman is a forward, a small marking version, just not a crumber.

The rest are all capable of playing high half forward or wing. Scott is especially flexible and can play back if needed as well. Garcia may develop into a midfielder in time. I haven't seen enough of Jones and Bedendo yet. Maybe Dom can become a medium forward, or maybe he's better suited to the wing? From reports Arthur is more of a running type than a small forward, some more VFL time next season may tell us more.

[bornadog]

Dockers’ Lobb requests trade to Western Bulldogs (https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/dockers-lobb-requests-trade-to-western-bulldogs-20220915-p5bi96.html)

September 15, 2022 — 10.32am

Fremantle forward Rory Lobb has told the Dockers at his exit meeting that he wants to be traded to the Western Bulldogs.
The 29-year-old has one year remaining on his contract and the Dockers are arguing that he is a required player.


What about a straight swap for JJ?

What is Lobb worth?

[Sedat]

In finals you probably need more Nank than English.
Let's take the irrational emotion around English out of this discussion. You need more Nank than Rhys Stanley. Let's see what Geeling do at the selection table tonight. Will they back in the athletic Stanley who was horrible in the QF, or the bash and crash Ceglar? Massive selection call for the Cats

If ruck/stoppage is not important, Geelong would have won a flag or two in their Danger era. They don't want for anything else other than a competitive ruck beast. The athletic Stanley, Ratugolea and Blicavs types haven't got it done so far.

[Grantysghost]

Let's take the irrational emotion around English out of this discussion. You need more Nank than Rhys Stanley. Let's see what Geeling do at the selection table tonight. Will they back in the athletic Stanley who was horrible in the QF, or the bash and crash Ceglar? Massive selection call for the Cats

If ruck/stoppage is not important, Geelong would have won a flag or two in their Danger era. They don't want for anything else other than a competitive ruck beast. The athletic Stanley, Ratugolea and Blicavs types haven't got it done so far.

That will be very interesting. I reckon they'll go Ceglar.

Darcy Fort has been awesome for the Lions when you consider their investment.

Big Oscar will come back in though you'd think.

[Sedat]

With Lobb the time in the ruck could be more like 65/35 with English of course the 65. Less time in the ruck for Tim to feel fatigued. Players change at full forward.
I think we're all on a unity ticket if this is the case next year. It's not my preferred outcome, but if we go and get Lobb he simply has to play a decent chunk (at the very least 1/3rd or closer to 50%) time on ball. The status quo clearly hasn't worked. The closest we came to success was in 2021 when Martin stepped up very late in the season to chop out in ruck, but the season was 40 minutes too long unfortunately.

[Rocco Jones]

I think we're all on a unity ticket if this is the case next year. It's not my preferred outcome, but if we go and get Lobb he simply has to play a decent chunk (at the very least 1/3rd or closer to 50%) time on ball. The status quo clearly hasn't worked. The closest we came to success was in 2021 when Martin stepped up very late in the season to chop out in ruck, but the season was 40 minutes too long unfortunately.

The 'status quo' could progress as English is young enough to improve, however it's too risky imo to bank on it.

If it's at the right price, I really like the Lobb get. So with the 2/3 and 1/3 split. If English develops, he gets more to a pure R1. Lobb plays more minutes when English is struggling with competitiveness.

English's struggles with competitiveness at times (especially crucial moments) AND us going with a 2nd ruck who is really just filling in, that's a bad combo.

[bornadog]

The 'status quo' could progress as English is young enough to improve, however it's too risky imo to bank on it.

If it's at the right price, I really like the Lobb get. So with the 2/3 and 1/3 split. If English develops, he gets more to a pure R1. Lobb plays more minutes when English is struggling with competitiveness.

That would work.

[bornadog]

That will be very interesting. I reckon they'll go Ceglar.

Darcy Fort has been awesome for the Lions when you consider their investment.

Big Oscar will come back in though you'd think.

Looks like they will go with Stanley

[Bulldog4life]

The 'status quo' could progress as English is young enough to improve, however it's too risky imo to bank on it.

If it's at the right price, I really like the Lobb get. So with the 2/3 and 1/3 split. If English develops, he gets more to a pure R1. Lobb plays more minutes when English is struggling with competitiveness.

English's struggles with competitiveness at times (especially crucial moments) AND us going with a 2nd ruck who is really just filling in, that's a bad combo.

I said this in post 235.

[F'scary]

So Bruce is done?

VFL full forward to start and see what happens from there?

[The bulldog tragician]

Has officially requested a trade to us according to The Age.