What is a balanced list?

[Grantysghost]

I was responding to another post, and thought this needs a thread of it's own. Lots of talk around list balance, and talent v positional need and I thought : what does a balanced list actually look like these days?

I think there is a school of thought that the Lions probably have the most balanced list in the league. I've tried to (very quickly) break them down by position from the GF. Is this the template we should be all striving for? Love to hear your thoughts, is this the perfect balance? Which ones did I stuff up (I had a few I was 50/50 where to place esp MF)

Defenders

2 x KPD - Andrews, Lester
2 x MD - Starcevich, Gardiner (borderline KPD)
3 x SD - Mckenna, Coleman, Wilmot


Midfielders

3 x Outside - Zorko, McCluggage, Fletcher
4 x Inside - Neale, Berry, Dunkley, Robertson
1 x Ruck - McInerney

Forwards

2 x KPF - Daniher, Hipwood
4 x MF - Mcarthy, Rayner, Ah Chee, Bailey
1 x SF - Cameron

[Axe Man]

Payne is missing who is a first choice KPD. Doedee will come into the side as third tall/medium defender at some stage too.

[bornadog]

The balance is a hard one to fathom and work out as it depends on the game plan. The mix of talls v smalls, mids versus forwards etc.

If you are looking at a fast moving game, and want to also lock the ball into your forward 50, obviously an over abundance of talls (slow talls) won't work. So it is a hard question to answer.

What I have seen of Brisbane is they move the ball slowly from the backline, playing a possession game, chipping the ball around and then when they see an opening, they will pounce and move the ball very quickly to the forward line.

Pies, go hell for leather and move the ball very quickly from the backline to the forward line., They don't have many tall players, forward or back, so they adapt the game plan to suit the players.

We need to balance out the players. How many talls is too many? How many mids is too many and can they play other roles?

[Grantysghost]

Payne is missing who is a first choice KPD. Doedee will come into the side as third tall/medium defender at some stage too.

Yeah this was from the GF side.

It's more about the balance (what type is where).

[Grantysghost]

The balance is a hard one to fathom and work out as it depends on the game plan. The mix of talls v smalls, mids versus forwards etc.

If you are looking at a fast moving game, and want to also lock the ball into your forward 50, obviously an over abundance of talls (slow talls) won't work. So it is a hard question to answer.

What I have seen of Brisbane is they move the ball slowly from the backline, playing a possession game, chipping the ball around and then when they see an opening, they will pounce and move the ball very quickly to the forward line.

Pies, go hell for leather and move the ball very quickly from the backline to the forward line., They don't have many tall players, forward or back, so they adapt the game plan to suit the players.

We need to balance out the players. How many talls is too many? How many mids is too many and can they play other roles?

This is my thought too.

However do you create a gameplan around the list, or vice versa?

I think short term if you've just come in it's probably the former (see Bevo early doors). It's very interesting that Bevo's short term work was so affective v his longer term stuff as really this is HIS list now.

[bornadog]

This is my thought too.

However do you create a gameplan around the list, or vice versa?

I think short term if you've just come in it's probably the former (see Bevo early doors). It's very interesting that Bevo's short term work was so affective v his longer term stuff as really this is HIS list now.

Rocket changed his game plan once he worked out his players strengths.

[MrMahatma]

Wouldn't a balanced list mean you have guys who are at their best in each and every role. So, genuine small crumbing forwards, genuine wingers, HBF, rucks etc. And you wouldn't want a super concentration of your "best" players, or highest paid, all in the one spot.

I think we're kind of balanced in that we probably have guys on the list now (EG: we've drafted some positional needs Clark as a small forward, Freijah on the wing etc) but our "best 23" isn't balanced - cause those guys aren't in it (yet).

[GVGjr]

The ability to cover a wide range of injuries with players who have gained some senior football experience along the way is a sign that the list is at least reasonably balanced.

[Grantysghost]

Love all the answers.

I guess also what I'm wondering is what breakdown positionally do you see as the best balance?

Is it 2 small forwards? 3 medium defenders? Is there a template for the perfectly balanced list?

[FrediKanoute]

This is my thought too.

However do you create a gameplan around the list, or vice versa?

I think short term if you've just come in it's probably the former (see Bevo early doors). It's very interesting that Bevo's short term work was so affective v his longer term stuff as really this is HIS list now.

Gameplan first and then manage the list accordingly.

The difficulty is if you want to play 2020's footy with a 1970's list then maybe you need to compromise a little and evolve towards the list.

[Bulldog Joe]

Gameplan first and then manage the list accordingly.

The difficulty is if you want to play 2020's footy with a 1970's list then maybe you need to compromise a little and evolve towards the list.

Sorry Fredi but I have to disagree.

The list is what you have and can only be addressed at the end of each season and you might make some list changes to help play the way you prefer.

The gameplan should evolve from the start of pre-season and be designed around the list that is available.

We need to play to our strength to maximise our output.

List strength should be the BIGGEST influence on gameplan.

[mjp]

Love all the answers.

I guess also what I'm wondering is what breakdown positionally do you see as the best balance?

Is it 2 small forwards? 3 medium defenders? Is there a template for the perfectly balanced list?

I think age profile, salary impact and contractual status would be pretty big drivers of a balanced list.

[Grantysghost]

Sorry Fredi but I have to disagree.

The list is what you have and can only be addressed at the end of each season and you might make some list changes to help play the way you prefer.

The gameplan should evolve from the start of pre-season and be designed around the list that is available.

We need to play to our strength to maximise our output.

List strength should be the BIGGEST influence on gameplan.

Does it change with tenure though BJ?

Eg new coach like Bevo - he's got no idea how long he's going to last for.

He wins a flag in his second year, probably making do with what he has, then the game changes and he can mould things to his perfect team. I think that's what happened with the rebuild not rebuild we went through before the 21 peak.

For all intents and purposes this is the team that Bevo has created. Is it lopsided on purpose?

[Grantysghost]

I think age profile, salary impact and contractual status would be pretty big drivers of a balanced list.

So age having your best players in their prime age group 25-30...Salary impact not having a huge weight of the cash to a few, and contracts not having guys being distracted with contract issues.

Yep they'd be a huge part of it.

It's amazing when you start digging you realise how big a task it is to manage a list with only a few levers to pull every year.

[Grantysghost]

I think age profile, salary impact and contractual status would be pretty big drivers of a balanced list.

MJP do you have a template in your mind as to what the perfect list looks like in terms of filled positions?

[mjp]

MJP do you have a template in your mind as to what the perfect list looks like in terms of filled positions?

Um. Yep.

The problem is it isn't based on AFL list sizes...what is the squad size and I'll extrapolate.

[Grantysghost]

Um. Yep.

The problem is it isn't based on AFL list sizes...what is the squad size and I'll extrapolate.

Well more a gameday squad rather than reserves. If you were going into a GF and everyone was fit. How would it look in a perfect world.

[Bulldog Joe]

Does it change with tenure though BJ?

Eg new coach like Bevo - he's got no idea how long he's going to last for.

He wins a flag in his second year, probably making do with what he has, then the game changes and he can mould things to his perfect team. I think that's what happened with the rebuild not rebuild we went through before the 21 peak.

For all intents and purposes this is the team that Bevo has created. Is it lopsided on purpose?

Absolutely changes as the coach has the opportunity to have the list he wants, but he still needs a game plan that suits the list at his disposal.

It needs to adapt to the availability, but also to the development.

With the talls on the list we need to find a way to make the most of their talents.

[jazzadogs]

Well more a gameday squad rather than reserves. If you were going into a GF and everyone was fit. How would it look in a perfect world.

I think a best 23 balance is different to a list balance...

Best 23 balance doesn't address age profiles (if you have four 30yo ruckmen on your list, is it balanced?), salary (if you're paying your best four mids 900k each but the defence can't stop goals, is it balanced?) or contract length (if your ten best players are all out of contract at the end of the season, is the list balanced?).

I think they're two separate discussions.

Sticking with what I think you're asking - a balanced squad - I'll compare our current squad to the lions

2 x KPD - Andrews, Lester Jones, JOD
2 x MD - Starcevich, Gardiner Coffield, Khamis?
3 x SD - Mckenna, Coleman, Wilmot Richards, Dale, JJ


Midfielders

3 x Outside - Zorko, McCluggage, Fletcher Poulter, Baker, Treloar?
4 x Inside - Neale, Berry, Dunkley, Robertson Bont, Libba, Sanders, Macrae
1 x Ruck - McInerney English

Forwards

2 x KPF - Daniher, Hipwood Naughton, Jamarra
4 x MF - Mcarthy, Rayner, Ah Chee, Bailey Cody, Harmes, West, Daniel
1 x SF - Cameron Lobb - hmmmm, not quite a small forward

I think our team lines up well, with the obvious exception of the Charlie Cameron small/Rory Lobb tall.

[Go_Dogs]

I agree balanced list vs balanced 2: ads very different topics.

Balanced list - I think about a range of players across their career / development cycle, with emerging players through to seasoned vets. A depth across all positions / roles for the team. Balance across the lines with our stats / AA calibre players.

Balanced squad - is probably not dissimilar to the OP, however all sides will be slightly different based on their game plan. Having 2-3 KPF and KPD, including one who can chop in the ruck, running defenders, high forwards, inside, inside-out, outside runners/midfielders, a ruck, a small forward, lock down defender, then running depth across the lines on the bench.