Our defence

[Mantis]

I for one have been very critical of our defence in the past, but over the past 3 or 4 weeks they have been very good. I have always been worried about there ability to beat there direct opponent in a 1 on 1 duel, but they are certainly improving.

Lake is turning into a very dependable FB and has the great ability of taking defensive marks when the opposition goes forward. Hargrave has played probably the most consistent 3 or 4 weeks of his career, it certainly helps when he plays on a similiar sized opponent Morris, well he is Morris, if only he could kick, but we always know we will get at the very least a bloody strong contest. And Williams is improving every week and looks a very good long term option.

For along time our defence has been terrible, but things are certainly on the improve and as we push forward this season I'm starting to think our defence can do the job when we are under the pump.

Good signs indeed.

[LostDoggy]

The backline looked very sharp today, and managed to stand up even without Lake. Gilbee managed to have a run, and Williams was good with disposal. All member bring different qualities, and i think the combination is working out very nicely.

I like it when i see Gilbee or Hargrave tearing up a wing :)

[1eyedog]

Premierships are built from the back line and ours looks very solid.

[alwaysadog]

Very early to make definitive calls about them, but progress has clearly been made and we have added more agression, more size and have more quality defenders available so we can pick to match opponents and cover injuries.

Mind you a couple of injuries, god forbid, to Lake and Morris and we would be in all sorts of trouble.

[Mofra]

I for one have been very critical of our defence in the past, but over the past 3 or 4 weeks they have been very good. I have always been worried about there ability to beat there direct opponent in a 1 on 1 duel, but they are certainly improving.
Absolutely. We now have Williams who seems to improve every game, and I'd be confident having him take a monster CHB (could realistically play on a Brown/Cloke type).
Lake & Morris we'd back 1 on 1 anyway, and people seem to forget that Shaggy was our pseudo CHB for a while - when Everitt goes back, Shaggy's one of our short defenders!

Everitt will take some time, but he moves smoothly when he gets the ball & took a nice mark in the 3rd - for Skinny it doesn't look to be a question of whether he'll make it or not, merely a question of when.

[craigsahibee]

The guys stood up well even when Lake went off the ground. Brian was fantastic today. Tom Williams is getting better with each contest not just each game. Shaggy and Morris were very good again and Gilbee has had a good couple of weeks. We are now starting to build some depth to cover these guys. Everitt can go back there when needed and I saw enough from Ward today to suggest that he could play across half back and be very attacking. Big Tom Williams vs Jonathon Brown next week!!!

[The Coon Dog]

Good post Mantis. Had similar thoughts myself, tho St.Kilda did themselves no favours today with the manner in which they brought the ball into their forward line.

I reckon Tom Williams at CHB is like the missing piece of the jigsaw, with him there there just seems to be the right match ups all round, Shaggy having to fight in his own weight division is a pefrect example.

Be interesting from those close to it how they see Peter Dean's arrival.

[Sockeye Salmon]

It's amazing how much better our backline is when we pressure the ball carrier in midfield.

[Mantis]

It's amazing how much better our backline is when we pressure the ball carrier in midfield.

Of course it makes a huge difference, but even so our defenders have all improved significantly.

The desperation the defence as a whole is also very good. They are a courageous group who don't mind standing in front of a pack and taking a hit or diving selflessly into the bottom of a scrimmage.

[LostDoggy]

It's amazing how much better our backline is when we pressure the ball carrier in midfield.

The key.

[Go_Dogs]

Would still like to see a few more guys through there who use the ball with more purpose more often, but as far as making our backline more dour, we have succeeded.

[dog town]

It's amazing how much better our backline is when we pressure the ball carrier in midfield.Now that Lake has been given a bit more freedom he will take a mountain of marks if we can keep the midfield pressure right up. Pressuring the ball carrier is still the main aspect of defence. You defend as a team not just as a back 6. Its a team commitment in alot of ways.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Now that Lake has been given a bit more freedom he will take a mountain of marks if we can keep the midfield pressure right up. Pressuring the ball carrier is still the main aspect of defence. You defend as a team not just as a back 6. Its a team commitment in alot of ways.

I think I read that Lake took 7 defensive marks (that's 7 marks from St. Kilda kicks, not 7 marks in the D50)

[dog town]

I think I read that Lake took 7 defensive marks (that's 7 marks from St. Kilda kicks, not 7 marks in the D50) He won that stat for the entire competition last season.

[hujsh]

He won that stat for the entire competition last season.

And got him a bucket load of DT points

[LostDoggy]

I think its been already mentioned here but I think whats improved our backline more than anything is the flexibility of being able to play Morris and Hargrave on opposition players there size or smaller.

I thought we were weak in covering for small forwards but both Morris and Hargrave can do the job there well.

Both Schnieder and Milne hardly got a sniff this week.

[Mantis]

I think its been already mentioned here but I think whats improved our backline more than anything is the flexibility of being able to play Morris and Hargrave on opposition players there size or smaller.

I thought we were weak in covering for small forwards but both Morris and Hargrave can do the job there well.

Both Schnieder and Milne hardly got a sniff this week.

But we learnt once again on the weekend that he can't pick up a tall. He slaughtered Milne, but when the Saints went tall and Shaggy had to pick up a tall he get's worried and gives away un-warranted free kicks.

[Topdog]

But we never "had" to put him there. I believe at that time we were still trailing Williams up forward.

[bornadog]

But we learnt once again on the weekend that he can't pick up a tall. He slaughtered Milne, but when the Saints went tall and Shaggy had to pick up a tall he get's worried and gives away un-warranted free kicks.

What you forget is that Hargrave is only 190cm and doesn't weight much. In the past he has had to conceed 3 to 4 cm and also kilos to his opposition.

[Mantis]

What you forget is that Hargrave is only 190cm and doesn't weight much. In the past he has had to conceed 3 to 4 cm and also kilos to his opposition.

And that's fine. Hargrave when played on a suitable opponent has an excellent track record. When he play's on an unsuitable opponent (height and especially weight) he struggles.

I am more than happy for him to play as a 'small' defender, not so happy when he has to concede height or weight.

[craigsahibee]

And that's fine. Hargrave when played on a suitable opponent has an excellent track record. When he play's on an unsuitable opponent (height and especially weight) he struggles.

I am more than happy for him to play as a 'small' defender, not so happy when he has to concede height or weight.

Shaggy had to concede height and weight for the first 80 - 100 games of his career and held his own. He would be one of my first picked every week. Just a great competitor and can kick goals when he sneaks forward. Doesn't mind a bit of biffo either, just ask Heath Black.

[wimberga]

Shaggy balances up the defence imo

Williams Morris and Lake can all take talls, with Everitt and Tiller suitable options for a 4th tall. Gilbee, although known and respected for his run out of defence, i believe, actually does quite a good job as a defender aswell. Gilbs Lake and Shaggy can all get up the ground a bit and rebound, which especially helpful in recent times as gilbee is getting tagged more and more. Ideally i dont think Shaggy is a defender, but then it was the same with Griffen, and he brings more to the table than just defending. Yes he can give away cheap free kicks on an oversized opponent, but he is a good user of the ball, runs off his opponent for the most part and when matched up on someone his own size does a very serviceable job.

[LostDoggy]

Originally Posted by Mantis
And that's fine. Hargrave when played on a suitable opponent has an excellent track record. When he play's on an unsuitable opponent (height and especially weight) he struggles.

Well he is better than say Mcdougall and Wight at picking up a tall forward and they are taller.

[Mantis]

Well he is better than say Mcdougall and Wight at picking up a tall forward and they are taller.

Is he?

McDougall played 3 or 4 games late last year as our 3rd tall defender and acquitted himself quite well. He got touched up by Lucas in a pre-season game this year and hasn't had a look in since.

If I had the choice to play Hargrave or McDougall on someone taller than 6'4" in a pure defensive role I would choose McDougall every time.

[bornadog]

Is he?

McDougall played 3 or 4 games late last year as our 3rd tall defender and acquitted himself quite well. He got touched up by Lucas in a pre-season game this year and hasn't had a look in since.

If I had the choice to play Hargrave or McDougall on someone taller than 6'4" in a pure defensive role I would choose McDougall every time.

agree

[LostDoggy]

Hargrave is 10x better than McDougall. If McDougall was better at taking a tall then he would have played already, its not like we didn't need him.
Hargrave has played for years on blokes taller than him. And done very well(eg Riewoldt, Franklin and otehrs). He is no EJ but better than McDougall's 4 games when we were collectively were terrible.
I know one will stay on the list.

[LostDoggy]

If I had the choice to play Hargrave or McDougall on someone taller than 6'4" in a pure defensive role I would choose McDougall every time.
Yet he hasn't. I bet Hargarve has played on forwards that size this season.

[Mantis]

Hargrave is 10x better than McDougall. If McDougall was better at taking a tall then he would have played already, its not like we didn't need him.
Hargrave has played for years on blokes taller than him. And done very well(eg Riewoldt, Franklin and otehrs). He is no EJ but better than McDougall's 4 games when we were collectively were terrible.
I know one will stay on the list.

When Wight was playing that role at the start of this year McDougall was out injured with a bad back. I'm sure that if he was fit there would have been far greater pressure on Wight to hold his spot.

[LostDoggy]

When Wight was playing that role at the start of this year McDougall was out injured with a bad back. I'm sure that if he was fit there would have been far greater pressure on Wight to hold his spot.

McDougall still played a number of games for Williamstown this season.
Eade played Wight, Williams and Hargrave in the same side why not McDougall before Williams came back?

If he was better than Hargrave at taking a tall then he would have played. He might have on Hargrave for height but Hargrave craps on on him for approach, hardness, dedication and a number of other positives.