Trading

[Desipura]

Sherman- Best kick, biggest updside.
Fair enough, not sure I agree with the biggest upside bit.

[LostDoggy]

Sherman was an absolute gun in 2009, and I think the Bulldogs game plan would suit him well enough.

Just not sure that this fascination with top-up players is the right direction to go.

[Mantis]

Sherman was an absolute gun in 2009, and I think the Bulldogs game plan would suit him well enough.

Just not sure that this fascination with top-up players is the right direction to go.

In your opinion which direction should we be heading in?

[LostDoggy]

In your opinion which direction should we be heading in?

I know it's been spoken about on other threads, but I really appreciate how Mick Matlhouse took a chance with the kids he's got. None of them are superstars, but they all play their part well.

I think we've got the talent to do the same this year. With Johnson, Aker, Eagleton, and possibly a few others leaving, it's the perfect chance to get 10-15 games into the kids that make up our future.

[LostDoggy]

I want Walker, and according to SEN twitter he wants to play at the dogs.

Listening to Carlton CEO (Greg Swann?) on SEN before, doesn't sound interested in Everitt at all they are looking for a KP backman, but what else is really available is the issue for them..

[anfo27]

Sherman- Best kick, biggest updside.

Agreed. When all 3 are at their best Sherman is the most damaging. The only thing I am worried about is taking on too much of his salary and giving up a good pick for guy who has an ordinary year and who the Lions want to get rid of.
Surely we have the upper hand in this deal and should be able to bend them over a little instead of the other way round.

[Mantis]

I know it's been spoken about on other threads, but I really appreciate how Mick Matlhouse took a chance with the kids he's got. None of them are superstars, but they all play their part well.

I think we've got the talent to do the same this year. With Johnson, Aker, Eagleton, and possibly a few others leaving, it's the perfect chance to get 10-15 games into the kids that make up our future.

Which kids in particular are you keen to be seen given this opportunity?

[1eyedog]

That could only come into effect if we had shown any interest in Tambling which I don't believe we have had.

If the rumors are true he did complete a medical at the club. That shows some interest if you ask me.

[1eyedog]

Irrespective of who the club are currently targetting....Sherman, Tambling or Walker for the Harbrow pick, which would you want?

Sherman, quick, goal hungry, breaks tackles and has a robust history of excellent form. Unfortunately he is a horrible kick, but who cares as long as they go through.

I'm interested to know why people think Tambling will offer us anything other than turn overs. I don't know, but I watch a lot of football with my best mate who is a Richmond supporter and he just shakes his head.

[1eyedog]

Agreed. When all 3 are at their best Sherman is the most damaging. The only thing I am worried about is taking on too much of his salary and giving up a good pick for guy who has an ordinary year and who the Lions want to get rid of.
Surely we have the upper hand in this deal and should be able to bend them over a little instead of the other way round.

Sherman is still young, may be short term pain for a long term yield.

Sorry, I must learn how to group my posts.

[dogman]

I know it's been spoken about on other threads, but I really appreciate how Mick Matlhouse took a chance with the kids he's got. None of them are superstars, but they all play their part well.

I think we've got the talent to do the same this year. With Johnson, Aker, Eagleton, and possibly a few others leaving, it's the perfect chance to get 10-15 games into the kids that make up our future.

Malthouse brought in Ball and Jolly this year. Sometimes it does work out. I have faith in Eade, that he would make the right call.

[LostDoggy]

Which kids in particular are you keen to be seen given this opportunity?

Of the current stock: Hooper, Cordy, Roughead, Wood, Jones, Reid. I know some of these guys already played quite a few games this year, and injury prevented others from playing more games, but essentially these are the guys we want playing every game in a few years.

We would love to get some games into Wallis and Libba, alhough I think Libba is a little too lean to expect too many games from him next year.

I would also like to see Stack played off the half back line. He's got so much potential.

I just look at teams like Richmond and Melbourne, and although they struggled at times throughout the year, their young kids showed what they're made of with some faith from the top. A little faith from the coaches (and some luck with injuries) and I think next year could be very exciting.

[1eyedog]

Of the current stock: Hooper, Cordy, Roughead, Wood, Jones, Reid. I know some of these guys already played quite a few games this year, and injury prevented others from playing more games, but essentially these are the guys we want playing every game in a few years.

We would love to get some games into Wallis and Libba, alhough I think Libba is a little too lean to expect too many games from him next year.

I would also like to see Stack played off the half back line. He's got so much potential.

I just look at teams like Richmond and Melbourne, and although they struggled at times throughout the year, their young kids showed what they're made of with some faith from the top. A little faith from the coaches (and some luck with injuries) and I think next year could be very exciting.

If we play seven of those youngsters next year we'll get killed. We don't know if Stack will be at the club, Cordy is just not ready and needs another pre-season after this one and Reid's name has also been thrown around as we have so many like players.

Roughead, Wood and Jones and to a lesser extent Wallis later on during the season would be my focus, with Hooper perhaps having a chance for a few weeks at some stage during the year as well as a result of injuries. .

[Mofra]

I know it's been spoken about on other threads, but I really appreciate how Mick Matlhouse took a chance with the kids he's got. None of them are superstars, but they all play their part well.
These kids all have a couple of years in the system though - as at round 1 next year if we lose Minson, Hill, Stack, Everitt as well as the retirees. That would leave us with next to no depth that has had any time in the system, so topping up with one or two established players isn't that bad a strategy when you take into account the compromised draft (the Jan-Apr '92 17 year old plundering that GC Suns have already had).

Lets not forget Malthouse brought in Ball, Jolley, Brown, Medhurst and co to the current group.

[Rocco Jones]

I know it's been spoken about on other threads, but I really appreciate how Mick Matlhouse took a chance with the kids he's got. None of them are superstars, but they all play their part well.

I think we've got the talent to do the same this year. With Johnson, Aker, Eagleton, and possibly a few others leaving, it's the perfect chance to get 10-15 games into the kids that make up our future.

On the flipside, Ross Lyon and the Saints have bought in a lot of recycled/cheap players from out sides who have added value playing various roles in the side. Schneider, Dempster, Ray, Gardiner, Dawson and Peake, that's 6 from their 22 last week.

[1eyedog]

On the flipside, Ross Lyon and the Saints have bought in a lot of recycled/cheap players from out sides who have added value playing various roles in the side. Schneider, Dempster, Ray, Gardiner, Dawson and Peake, that's 6 from their 22 last week.

And that very nearly is the bottom six worse players from the top eight teams IMO. The Aints are lucky to have genuine superstars and a smart and influential coach with a solid game plan.

[Rocco Jones]

And that very nearly is the bottom six worse players from the top eight teams IMO. The Aints are lucky to have genuine superstars and a smart and influential coach with a solid game plan.

Lyon has been good at getting players on the cheap who might not be much on their own but are able to play a role in for the team. The Saints are a great example of being worth more than the sum of your parts.

[Mantis]

Of the current stock: Hooper, Cordy, Roughead, Wood, Jones, Reid. I know some of these guys already played quite a few games this year, and injury prevented others from playing more games, but essentially these are the guys we want playing every game in a few years.


Jones should play more next year, he will probably take Hahn's spot in the forwardline.

Roughead will battle with Minson for the 2nd ruck spot, but I guess that will depend on if Minson is retained. It would be hoped that Cordy could play some footy after 3 years ruined by injury.

Wood as shown in the 2nd half of the season just finished is a best 22 member, even more so with Harbrow departing.

Reid will be battling with the likes of Boyd, Cross, Ward, Picken & Addison for a spot in the team, but he is a similiar type to many of those listed.

That leaves Hooper who looked miles away in his first game with us, I haven't got high hopes, but I guess it's a wait and see thing.

From all these players we haven't replaced Johnson or Eagleton who played up forward this year. We don't look to have any ready made replacements in the wings, especially if Hill & Stack leave which is what is being reported as being a likely outcome.... It looks like we will address our shortcomings in the forward half by trading in some ready made players thru trade week which I believe is the correct road to travel.

[Jasper]

I want Walker, and according to SEN twitter he wants to play at the dogs.

Listening to Carlton CEO (Greg Swann?) on SEN before, doesn't sound interested in Everitt at all they are looking for a KP backman, but what else is really available is the issue for them..

Agree, walker is the best player out of this bunch. he has been unlucky with injuries and spent most of his games this year playing CHB because Ratten is the worst coach in the league

[LostDoggy]

I agree that top-up players have worked this year for St.Kilda, Sydney and Collingwood, but it backfired horribly for Brisbane and Essendon.

I get the impression that we seem to think that next year is our last chance to win a premiership for a very long time.

[Mantis]

I agree that top-up players have worked this year for St.Kilda, Sydney and Collingwood, but it backfired horribly for Brisbane and Essendon.

I get the impression that we seem to think that next year is our last chance to win a premiership for a very long time.

I don't understand the logic in that statement.

So far we have been rumoured to be interested in trading for Walker (24), Sherman (23), Djekkura (22) & Veszpremi (21).

If we were chasing 28+ year olds I would agree, but it looks to me that we are trying to bolster our depth in the younger age group (players who have been in the system for 4 to 6 years) which shows we are looking mid to long term (hopefully short term as well).

[Greystache]

I don't understand the logic in that statement.

So far we have been rumoured to be interested in trading for Walker (24), Sherman (23), Djekkura (22) & Veszpremi (21).

If we were chasing 28+ year olds I would agree, but it looks to me that we are trying to bolster our depth in the younger age group (players who have been in the system for 4 to 6 years) which shows we are looking mid to long term (hopefully short term as well).

Agreed, we've got a gulf in the 24-28 year old bracket, mainly due to a series of 1st round draft failures (Walsh, Ray, Faulkner, Power), and while they don't need to be stars, we need a couple of extra mature bodies who can play a role.

Can't agree with you on this one Gia.

[LostDoggy]

I don't understand the logic in that statement.

So far we have been rumoured to be interested in trading for Walker (24), Sherman (23), Djekkura (22) & Veszpremi (21).

Walker - dicky shoulders, couldn't cement spot in a rubbish team.

Sherman - gun '09 season, but struggled this year. Wouldn't mind him on our team.

Djekkura - has played 4 AFL games in 4 years.

Veszpremi - has played 11 games in 3 years. Massive disappointment for a number 11 pick.

Lets face it, we're not going to get a recruit like Jolly, Ball or even a Leigh Brown here. These guys are more like Moles and Callan. And we've laready got them.

[w3design]

Walker - dicky shoulders, couldn't cement spot in a rubbish team.

Sherman - gun '09 season, but struggled this year. Wouldn't mind him on our team.

Djekkura - has played 4 AFL games in 4 years.

Veszpremi - has played 11 games in 3 years. Massive disappointment for a number 11 pick.

Lets face it, we're not going to get a recruit like Jolly, Ball or even a Leigh Brown here. These guys are more like Moles and Callan. And we've laready got them.

Yep, I wouldn't selling the farm for any of them

[Desipura]

Walker - dicky shoulders, couldn't cement spot in a rubbish team.

Sherman - gun '09 season, but struggled this year. Wouldn't mind him on our team.

Djekkura - has played 4 AFL games in 4 years.

Veszpremi - has played 11 games in 3 years. Massive disappointment for a number 11 pick.

Lets face it, we're not going to get a recruit like Jolly, Ball or even a Leigh Brown here. These guys are more like Moles and Callan. And we've laready got them.
Djerkurra & Veszpremi were highly rated at u18 level expecially Veszpremi. They have some natural talent but for various reasons have not displayed it as yet. The only similiarities with Moles & Callan is that they have not been given much opportunity to play seniors.

Sherman & Walker are nothing like Moles & Callan. They both would be regular players in our senior team something Callan never was and Moles does not look like being.

[Bulldog Revolution]

I don't understand the logic in that statement.

So far we have been rumoured to be interested in trading for Walker (24), Sherman (23), Djekkura (22) & Veszpremi (21).

If we were chasing 28+ year olds I would agree, but it looks to me that we are trying to bolster our depth in the younger age group (players who have been in the system for 4 to 6 years) which shows we are looking mid to long term (hopefully short term as well).

I agree that if the logic is to play Jones & Wood full time, as well as Roughy, Cordy, more then the vision looks more a mid term view. A logical view of our team might be that whilst we can still challenge we need significant improvement in our ruck division and forward line to win a flag.

I have some doubts as to how much the potential recruits would help but I'll have to bow to the coaching staffs knowledge of the compromised draft pool and character of our proposed recruits.

Im still slightly scarred by the trade period of Rhode (Morgan, Koops, Rawlings, Street)

[anfo27]

I agree that if the logic is to play Jones & Wood full time, as well as Roughy, Cordy, more then the vision looks more a mid term view. A logical view of our team might be that whilst we can still challenge we need significant improvement in our ruck division and forward line to win a flag.

I have some doubts as to how much the potential recruits would help but I'll have to bow to the coaching staffs knowledge of the compromised draft pool and character of our proposed recruits.

Im still slightly scarred by the trade period of Rhode (Morgan, Koops, Rawlings, Street)

What a stupid deal that was, we gave up an early second round pick for him that turned out to be David Mundy. He would be handy player for us right now.

[Mantis]

Walker - dicky shoulders, couldn't cement spot in a rubbish team.

Sherman - gun '09 season, but struggled this year. Wouldn't mind him on our team.

Djekkura - has played 4 AFL games in 4 years.

Veszpremi - has played 11 games in 3 years. Massive disappointment for a number 11 pick.

Lets face it, we're not going to get a recruit like Jolly, Ball or even a Leigh Brown here. These guys are more like Moles and Callan. And we've laready got them.

From where I sit we aren't looking to trade in key players just some 'role' players.

Walker is a utility type who will allow flexibility.

Sherman will give us some run & carry and is probably seen as a replacement for Eagleton.

The other 2 are inexperienced, yet small forwards who hopefully will add soemthing to our forward group which already has proven performers in Hall, Gia and a hopefully fit Higgins and a couple of young talented players in Grant & Jones.

We are not looking to trade in match-winners or 'gun' players, we should have enough of these already. What it looks like to me is that we are trying to fill a few gaps in our team with some ready made replacements because the players we have groomed over the past 2 or 3 years (Hill, Stack & Everitt) haven't really showed enough thus far or want out..

[Mantis]

Yep, I wouldn't selling the farm for any of them

Has it been suggested we will 'sell the farm' for any of these players?

[Desipura]

Djerkurra has a great attititude and is a ripper bloke from people that should know.
Sydney reportedly offering Sherman 1.4 million over 3 years will be hard to top if it happens

[Mantis]

Djerkurra has a great attititude and is a ripper bloke from people that should know.
Sydney reportedly offering Sherman 1.4 million over 3 years will be hard to top if it happens

Where is that figure from?

The Australian (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/sport/swans-make-16m-move-on-sherman/story-e6frg7mf-1225932547797) reported that Sydney have offered him $1.6mil over 4 years, but I hadn't yet seen the offer you talk about.

[w3design]

Has it been suggested we will 'sell the farm' for any of these players?

Eh? Just stating I don't think they're worth a high price. I'm sure the club will do what's best for the team.

[Desipura]

Where is that figure from?

The Australian (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/sport/swans-make-16m-move-on-sherman/story-e6frg7mf-1225932547797) reported that Sydney have offered him $1.6mil over 4 years, but I hadn't yet seen the offer you talk about.

Either way, we are going to struggle to match that especially if Sydney give up thier 1st round pick.

[Mofra]

Lets face it, we're not going to get a recruit like Jolly, Ball or even a Leigh Brown here. These guys are more like Moles and Callan. And we've laready got them.
Moles may imrpove with more familiarity at the top level, a sueful gap-player whilst Libba, Wallis & Co develop.

Collignwood were laughed at for picking up Leigh Brown - sometime a role player kicks on in the right environment.

[Desipura]

Moles may imrpove with more familiarity at the top level, a sueful gap-player whilst Libba, Wallis & Co develop.

Collignwood were laughed at for picking up Leigh Brown - sometime a role player kicks on in the right environment.
I too was pretty much laughed at when I suggested we should look at him a few seasons back.
Dont forget back then we did not have Jones on the list and no Hall.

[Mantis]

I too was pretty much laughed at when I suggested we should look at him a few seasons back.
Dont forget back then we did not have Jones on the list and no Hall.

We picked up Jones at the very draft that Collingwood picked up Brown.

[Desipura]

We picked up Jones at the very draft that Collingwood picked up Brown.
As I said we did not have Jones and Hall.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Anybody think we're a chance of picking up both Walker and Sherman, or is the vibe that we'll only be able to secure one of them?

If we got both - I'd be very happy. Mantis made a key point about us trading in some players who can fill roles for us, but having said, they have the potential to be guns too.

Sherman does seem like the inconsistent type but his first year on the scene and 09 were explosive. IMO he's the type of player that improves dramatically in a winning side.

Walker's had horrible luck with injuries and has teased Carlton with some great form and some ordinary form. He's still young though - if his body is fixed as reported, no reason why he can't justify his draft pick.

Trading for under performing players who have shown a real ability to play at the top level is good trading. Considering their age, our needs and what it'll take to get them here - both are perfect candidates IMO.

Sherman would be my first preference, but I hope we land both.

[Mofra]

What do we have to offer to get both? Given we are also speaking to Vespremi if rumours are to be believed, I'm not confident of getting both - or either TBH. Richmond have salary cap room and given they loaded up on kids last year will look to some bigger bodies this year.

[Desipura]

Anybody think we're a chance of picking up both Walker and Sherman, or is the vibe that we'll only be able to secure one of them?

Sherman would be my first preference, but I hope we land both.
How do we better Sydney if they offer up their 1st round pick and pay Sherman 400k a year over 4 years?
We would be a better chance of getting Walker IMHO

[The Bulldogs Bite]

What do we have to offer to get both? Given we are also speaking to Vespremi if rumours are to be believed, I'm not confident of getting both - or either TBH. Richmond have salary cap room and given they loaded up on kids last year will look to some bigger bodies this year.

There's some talk that Vespremi will stay at Sydney.

No idea in terms of $$$ and that's why I probably posed the question. In terms of satisfying the opposing clubs;

Sherman > Bulldogs
Harbrow Comp Pick > Brisbane

As suggested by another poster;

Warnock > Carlton
Walker > Bulldogs
Hill or Everitt > Melbourne

Seems pretty fair. If Melbourne went with Hill, then maybe we'd have to throw in a third round pick. To get that, perhaps the pick from trading Minson will suffice.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

How do we better Sydney if they offer up their 1st round pick and pay Sherman 400k a year over 4 years?
We would be a better chance of getting Walker IMHO

We definitely can't compete with that.

However, the rumour is that Sherman wants to relocate to Melbourne and not Sydney.

[LostDoggy]

Jay Clark (who?) from the Hun believes Djerrkura is a done deal to the dogs


Western bulldogs have stitched up geelongs Nathan djerkurra. Swap for a late pick though that the cats prob won't use. Can play a bit.

http://twitter.com/ClarkyHeraldSun

I'd be very happy with this

[chef]

I want Walker, and according to SEN twitter he wants to play at the dogs.

Listening to Carlton CEO (Greg Swann?) on SEN before, doesn't sound interested in Everitt at all they are looking for a KP backman, but what else is really available is the issue for them..

Andrew wants to come to the Dogs(he came in for breakfast this morning), but he said Carlton have no interest in Everitt and a three way would need to be organised IHO. He is not overly confident as he thinks Carlton will over value him(and they are pricks to deal with) as he is still contracted.

[Sockeye Salmon]

I think the Walker deal will get done close to the cut-off.

Clubs very rarely stop a fringe player from going when he wants out.



I'd love Sherman but not at $400K per year. Overpaying players is a guaranteed way to internally combust.

[DOG GOD]

From where I sit we aren't looking to trade in key players just some 'role' players.

Walker is a utility type who will allow flexibility.

Sherman will give us some run & carry and is probably seen as a replacement for Eagleton.

The other 2 are inexperienced, yet small forwards who hopefully will add soemthing to our forward group which already has proven performers in Hall, Gia and a hopefully fit Higgins and a couple of young talented players in Grant & Jones.

We are not looking to trade in match-winners or 'gun' players, we should have enough of these already. What it looks like to me is that we are trying to fill a few gaps in our team with some ready made replacements because the players we have groomed over the past 2 or 3 years (Hill, Stack & Everitt) haven't really showed enough thus far or want out..

Totally agree Mantis.

Hill, Stack and Everitt all have intensity issues that have hindered their development in this team. Its obvious to the MC and us fans that this is the case. If ridding the club of these players to bring in players who arent afraid to put their head over the ball and throw their body in the line of fire, then i am all for it.

MJP mentioned that Veszpremi is hard at the ball. So is Djekkera? and Walker. Bring them to the club and let them show what they can do.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

I agree that top-up players have worked this year for St.Kilda, Sydney and Collingwood, but it backfired horribly for Brisbane and Essendon.

I get the impression that we seem to think that next year is our last chance to win a premiership for a very long time.

Have some faith Giasiraccuser, Bazza worked out well for us and I'm sure the MC have a plan and if we get a fit side running into Septeber we are as good as anyone.

[Jasper]

If we got both - I'd be very happy. Mantis made a key point about us trading in some players who can fill roles for us, but having said, they have the potential to be guns too.


To be full of dreams, it must be a wondrous thing.

What I hope happens is we trade away one or two over 28 year old players to rebalance the list. Even with the retirements we still have 8 or 9 over 28's in our first 22.

What I hope doesn't happen is that we overpay (in compensation and remuneration) for fringe players, like Walker, Sherman, etc

What I think will happen is Eade will not trade his over 28's, and will trade good talent (that he can't get the best out of) for their market value at present (which is minimal). He will then slighltly overpay to get between 1 and 3 fringe players.

This is the list management we can expect from a coach in the final year of his contract whose team has not met expectations.

We will then spend much of next year rueing our bad luck with injuries to our over 28's, our lack of run and pace, and the inability of the fringe players we recruited to become 'guns'. I hope it doesn't happen that way and another man's trash becomes our treasure, I just think our 'trash' may be more likely to become someone else's treasure. Fingers crossed. This trade week is going to be the most interesting in a long while.

[LostDoggy]

What I think will happen is Eade will not trade his over 28's, and will trade good talent (that he can't get the best out of) for their market value at present (which is minimal). He will then overpay to get between 1 and 3 fringe players.

We will then spend much of next year rueing our bad luck with injuries to our over 28's, and the inability of the fringe players we recruited to become 'guns'.
Which clubs are that stupid to trade for over 28s, let alone the ones that we don't require?

[ledge]

To be full of dreams, it must be a wondrous thing.

What I hope happens is we trade away one or two over 28 year old players to rebalance the list. Even with the retirements we still have 8 or 9 over 28's in our first 22.

What I hope doesn't happen is that we overpay (in compensation and remuneration) for fringe players, like Walker, Sherman, etc

What I think will happen is Eade will not trade his over 28's, and will trade good talent (that he can't get the best out of) for their market value at present (which is minimal). He will then slighltly overpay to get between 1 and 3 fringe players.

This is the list management we can expect from a coach in the final year of his contract whose team has not met expectations.

We will then spend much of next year rueing our bad luck with injuries to our over 28's, our lack of run and pace, and the inability of the fringe players we recruited to become 'guns'. I hope it doesn't happen that way and another man's trash becomes our treasure, I just think our 'trash' may be more likely to become someone else's treasure. Fingers crossed. This trade week is going to the most interesting in a long while.

Our salary cap will make sure we dont overpay anyone.

[chef]

Which clubs are that stupid to trade for over 28s, let alone the ones that we don't require?

What was your previous user name Chops?

[LostDoggy]

Sherman was an absolute gun in 2009, and I think the Bulldogs game plan would suit him well enough.

Just not sure that this fascination with top-up players is the right direction to go.

When the players are 22, 23 & 24 respectively, i wouldn't class them as top up players.

[hujsh]

.

What I hope doesn't happen is that we overpay (in compensation and remuneration) for fringe players, like Walker, Sherman, etc
.

Name one player we've overpaid for while Eade has been coach. I'd say that's unlikely based on history

[Dogz-21]

Sherman could provide some pace and spark on a wing, Not sure about going after walker.

[DOG GOD]

The whole thing with Hill, Stack and Everitt is that none have shown any form of intensity while they have been at the club. Defensive pressure is paramount in todays football, and if the club is trying to bring in players who can deliver this and send those that cant, packing, then i dont see what the fuss is all about.

Yes, Hill, Stack and Everitt have shown glimpses, but if we got Veszpremi, Walker and Djekerra to the club, are we actually losing anything in talent? I dont think so. And we are certainly gaining alot in intensity and a willingness to do the hard yards by putting head over the ball etc.

If we lost Hill, Stack and Everitt and gained the other 3 mentioned, i would be quite happy.

[LostDoggy]

The whole thing with Hill, Stack and Everitt is that none have shown any form of intensity while they have been at the club. Defensive pressure is paramount in todays football, and if the club is trying to bring in players who can deliver this and send those that cant, packing, then i dont see what the fuss is all about.

Yes, Hill, Stack and Everitt have shown glimpses, but if we got Veszpremi, Walker and Djekerra to the club, are we actually losing anything in talent? I dont think so. And we are certainly gaining alot in intensity and a willingness to do the hard yards by putting head over the ball etc.

If we lost Hill, Stack and Everitt and gained the other 3 mentioned, i would be quite happy.

I agree but I think we only need one of Ves and Djek and Im pretty sure we have got Djek so Sherman, Walker and Djek in Hill, Stack, Everitt, Pick out would be pretty nice!

[Jasper]

Which clubs are that stupid to trade for over 28s, let alone the ones that we don't require?

You mean apart from us...(Hudson, Aker, Hall)

You mean apart from the clubs queuing up to get Lake last year (he would have been over 28 when the season started), you mean apart from the Saints when they recruited King and Gardiner....apart from the Pies when they recruited Jolly, Brisbane when they got Fevola??

And at what stage did I put a rider about required players? If the deal is good you take it, particuarly for over 28's. I still think we could cope without Boyd, and Carlton who have an excess of small forwards and a sub 20 draft pick are a good match. Honestly believe, Ward in particular would almost cover for Boyd. Even Addison and Reid could be okay and play a similar Boyd role (not at his level)

If a good deal came along for Hudson, you'd take it, but only if Boyd stayed as you'd lose too much clearance ability in one hit.

If the player is replaceable and a good deal is possible, we should look at it.

Murphy, Gilbee, Morris, Lake, Hall - all hard to replace.

Boyd, Gia, Hargrave, Hudson - all replaceable from a pure playing perspective, that intangible of leadership and club fabric, well who knows but the insiders?

But remember the Hawks when they off loaded Thompson, Hay and Rawlins, the picks they got and used brought them a premiership in a remarkably short time. Whilst I am not advocating wholesale list slaughter some judicious trading of older players with value should be considered. But I don't believe it will be.

[Jasper]

Name one player we've overpaid for while Eade has been coach. I'd say that's unlikely based on history

That is a good point. Until you ask yourself, when has Eade been in the last year of his contract heading into the draft trade period? IIRC in the past it was always extended. What effect on Eade is the loss of Clayton? Being without Clayton and Dalrymple's as yet unproven drafting performance, makes Eade more likely to trade (and not value picks) as his faith in Dalrymple would understandably be lower.

I agree that our trading form doesn't suggest we will overpay. I believe Eade's circumstances, and the large number of old players on our list which we aren't prepared to drop on poor form let alone trade, make this trade period the most dangerous period since when Rhode did all of his deals.

[Mofra]

^ Just as worthy to note is that we have our first two rounds of draft picks locked away, so it's not like we'll be able to emulate the lunacy of a McMahon for pick 19 or McLean for pick 11 anyway.

The players been touted as possible trades for us (Djerkerra, Walker, Sherman) would all fulfil a specific need for us and not cost the Earth.

[Remi Moses]

I can't fathom this fascination with trading the likes of Boyd! Players like him are the internal fabric of the club and trading the like is paramount to Football suicide...
Give it a spell

[OLD SCRAGGer]

I can't fathom this fascination with trading the likes of Boyd! Players like him are the internal fabric of the club and trading the like is paramount to Football suicide...
Give it a spell

At LAST, some common sense :)

[Ghost Dog]

At LAST, some common sense :)

I'm not sure why his name isn't bandied about a bit more when people think of a captain. Pretty solid player and the umps tend to think so as well/ Did pretty well in the B and F. Love to give him a kicking leg transplant however.

[Mantis]

That is a good point. Until you ask yourself, when has Eade been in the last year of his contract heading into the draft trade period? IIRC in the past it was always extended. What effect on Eade is the loss of Clayton? Being without Clayton and Dalrymple's as yet unproven drafting performance, makes Eade more likely to trade (and not value picks) as his faith in Dalrymple would understandably be lower.

With our first 2 picks likely to be eaten up by F/S selections it isn't like Dalrymple has much to work with. Taking the Harbrow compensatory pick out the of equation as it's unknown if we intend to use it this year, at present our first live pick is around 60... At those numbers it's just pot luck and to improve our list in area's of weakness we need to trade.


I agree that our trading form doesn't suggest we will overpay. I believe Eade's circumstances, and the large number of old players on our list which we aren't prepared to drop on poor form let alone trade, make this trade period the most dangerous period since when Rhode did all of his deals.

That's crap.

When Rohde went on his rampage he used a number of good picks to pick up duds.... We simply don't have the good picks this year.

[Desipura]

I have a 3 way deal that could suit all parties

Armitage to Essendon (in need of strong bodied midfielders)
Everitt to St Kilda (they were very keen last year, hope they still are)
Jetta/Davey to the Dogs

This will address our pace issue and enables to trade our Harbrow pick for a Sherman/Walker if that is the way the club wants to go.
Or we may wish to retain the Harbrow pick.

[DOG GOD]

I have a 3 way deal that could suit all parties

Armitage to Essendon (in need of strong bodied midfielders)
Everitt to St Kilda (they were very keen last year, hope they still are)
Jetta/Davey to the Dogs

This will address our pace issue and enables to trade our Harbrow pick for a Sherman/Walker if that is the way the club wants to go.
Or we may wish to retain the Harbrow pick.

That would be a good trade if it was Jetta. Not sure Ess would go with Armitage though who doesnt have any pace to his arsenal. I would certainly sign that trade off in a flash though.

[Desipura]

That would be a good trade if it was Jetta. Not sure Ess would go with Armitage though who doesnt have any pace to his arsenal. I would certainly sign that trade off in a flash though.
His pace is adequate and it is not a lack of pacy players that Essednon dont have, it is strong bodied midfielders.

[DOG GOD]

His pace is adequate and it is not a lack of pacy players that Essednon dont have, it is strong bodied midfielders.

Fair enough Desipura, i was more thinking that a centre startup of Stanton, Armitage and Watson would be slower than ours :)

As i said, i would love this trade to happen

[LostDoggy]

I think this is fantastic that we are so active in trade week, before trade week even starts.
Clearly our team is not good enough the past three years,and changes need to be made, slight changes can make a huge difference look at st kilda.
And i believe the right names are comming up in Sherman,Dejurrka,Walker,Vezpremi.
The one name i would of like to see is Brad Miller @ 27 i believe would be a great addition to our forward line, look what he has done in VFL this year.
As for the names offering for trade Stack,Hill,Everett. What have they shown? nothing!
As for the the SUPPORTERS who suggest trading the likes of BOYD,CROSS,GIA,Gilbee Etc, GET F@#$^%G REAL. 2 of them finished near top of B&F.

WELL DONE BULLDOGS KEEP TRYING TO GET WHAT WE NEED.

[DOG GOD]

Dale dogs, i really dont see the point of Miller into our team. Murphy can play that role alot better and i wouldnt want Miller hindering the development of Jones.

Everitt, Stack and Hill refuse to have any intensity and put their heads over the ball.
The players that we are rumoured to be interested in, do.

So lets go and get them.

[Topdog]

I know it's been spoken about on other threads, but I really appreciate how Mick Matlhouse took a chance with the kids he's got. None of them are superstars, but they all play their part well.

Leigh Brown, Darren Jolly, Luke Ball, Cameron Wood, Paul Medhurst and I'm sure there are others.

[stefoid]

Jetta resigned apparently

[hujsh]

Jetta resigned apparently

re-signed? Or quit Essendon?

[Jasper]

That's crap.

When Rohde went on his rampage he used a number of good picks to pick up duds.... We simply don't have the good picks this year.

I didn't make myself clear enough. Agree we don't have picks to slaughter this time. But we are in a precarious position for a different list management reason. We are approaching a place where Geelong already is, and where Australian cricket was when Chappell, Marsh and Lillee all retired.

Dad's army (ie our brilliant over 28's) took seven of the top 10 spots in our B & F. If we retain all of our over 28's, around eight of them will be in our best 22 (nine if you include Hargrave) next year. We seriously need to look at:

1 - Trading out now the valuable players who could be replaced without too much performance damage; or

2 - Putting faith in our youth next year and not playing the oldies at the expense of the kids (and hurting their development)

The alternative is that the top players on our list all get injured, lose pace, retire around the same time and we go into freefall as we don't have the players to cover nine good to very good players leaving/declining at the same time.

And recruiting stop gap players like Walker (who average about one tackle a game) and Sherman (who is a poor user of the ball), does not address our list's gaps, and further compounds our problems of poor tackling and poor ball use. Neither player addresses our lack of forward line pressure or tacking. Neither player is a particularly good ball user. And most importantly they will stop young players getting games, in effect becoming list cloggers.

That is why we should look to trade one of Hargrave, Boyd, Cross, Gia or Hudson as they can all be covered by our existing list, and use the outcome to bring in younger players or draftees who address our list needs, which are:

1 - Lack of tackling / forward line pressure
2 - Poor ball use
3 - Need for speed

Someone like Eddie Betts (over 3 tackles per game) ticks at least two of the above boxes, Nahas ticks two of them (over 4.5 tackles per game), as does Jetta (4 tackles per game).

Walker (1 tackle per game) and Sherman (just over 2 tackles per game) tick one box (they are quick).

The trade of Leon Cameron would have been looked on with horror by many on this board when it happened, yet the the outcome was that Gilbee came to the club. Same with Montgomery, which brought us Eagleton. Both Cameron and Monty have since returned to the club in off field roles. Sometimes hard decisions have to be made, and I believe now is the time.

The problem as I see it, is the club is not seriously going to look at this option because of Eade's need for quick wins and his high regard for our over 28's.

[Mofra]

That is why we should look to trade one of Hargrave, Boyd, Cross, Gia or Hudson as they can all be covered by our existing list, and use the outcome to bring in younger players or draftees who address our list needs, which are:

1 - Lack of tackling / forward line pressure
2 - Poor ball use
3 - Need for speed

Someone like Eddie Betts (over 3 tackles per game) ticks at least two of the above boxes, Nahas ticks two of them (over 4.5 tackles per game), as does Jetta (4 tackles per game).

Walker (1 tackle per game) and Sherman (just over 2 tackles per game) tick one box (they are quick).
I understand what you are trying to get at and you have made some reasoned points, however of that group I have highlighted above 3 are in our top 5 for tackles, and only Shaggy is outside of our leadership group. I don't think they are the real culprits.

As for the lack of forwardline pressure, Hahn was slow, Grant had tackles brushed off too easily (hopefully a strength focus this pre-season), Johnno's defensive side was always below par, Murphy was poor but moved to the backline, and Stack poor.

The only player in our F50 we are losing who did apply defensive pressure was Hill - and he wasn't great at blocking space on the turnover.

Pace and gutrunning is a factor, and two of our better players in each category respectfully - Harbrow & Eagle - are gone. Wood helps with the drive, Murphy to the backline looks a winner, but I really think a player with a few years in an AFL system who can play a wing type role will help us no end, and the players we are looking at aren't going to cost the Earth. Their value to us is higher than what we are likely to outlay.

[Jasper]

I understand what you are trying to get at and you have made some reasoned points, however of that group I have highlighted above 3 are in our top 5 for tackles, and only Shaggy is outside of our leadership group. I don't think they are the real culprits.



Agree with you on our gut running players, just not sure Walker and Sherman are the answers here.

Its probably not about culprits as such, the reason I am highlighting Boyd, Cross, etc is not that they aren't performing, its that they are getting older, and we have ready made replacements that would not diminish our performance too much if they were given the opportunity. Reid, Addison and Ward (and even Gia) could get all get reasonable stats if they spent the time in the midfield that Boyd and Cross do. With Libba and Wallis down the track we are very well stocked for clearance specialists, and should be looking at moving on one of the club's experienced clearance specialists if we can get good value - again not because they aren't good, but because they are good, would get a good trade value and are replaceable.

Another point is where the tackles are made, and the chase/defensive pressure. Boyd and Cross tackle in the midfield. We need a pacy forward who tackles (and kick a goal).

Don't think Sherman and Walker add to our team significantly enough compared to the downside of lack of tackling and ball use (Sherman especially). Jordy was quick but didn't do much else and he now plays Coburg 2s

Cameron and Monty would have been in and around the leadership group when they were traded, so I think the concept that our club would be ripped apart if we say traded a Boyd or a Cross is overstated.

With Carlton losing Grigg and MacLean struggling for fitness, you'd think they will be massively into an in and under player. I reckon we could get overs for Boyd or Cross, or even Addison. I just hope the 'overs' would be one of their small forwards rather than Walker

[LostDoggy]

Does anyone have any info of how much salary cap room we have? With the names that have been thrown up I'm genuinely excited about Trade Week but my first thoughts of landing Sherman, Tambling and Walker I can't think how we would afford them all. I know we have retirements and moving Hill, Stack and Everitt but I don't think their Salaries would cover it.

[soupman]

Does anyone have any info of how much salary cap room we have? With the names that have been thrown up I'm genuinely excited about Trade Week but my first thoughts of landing Sherman, Tambling and Walker I can't think how we would afford them all. I know we have retirements and moving Hill, Stack and Everitt but I don't think their Salaries would cover it.

I'd say that we would have enough room to recruit a couple of those players if we traded out a couple. Obviously Johnson, Akermanis and Eagleton leaving all help a little, but the verteran cap plus wage cuts for that extra year mean they won't leave a big hole, especially with our anitcipation of this allowing the like of Griffen and Cooney to get raises. However with the money allocated to Harbrow we should be able to fit them in, otherwise we wouldn't bother trading for them.

[GVGjr]

Does anyone have any info of how much salary cap room we have? With the names that have been thrown up I'm genuinely excited about Trade Week but my first thoughts of landing Sherman, Tambling and Walker I can't think how we would afford them all. I know we have retirements and moving Hill, Stack and Everitt but I don't think their Salaries would cover it.

Very tight for salary cap. It would be very difficult to land a high priced recruit.

[LostDoggy]

Agree with you on our gut running players, just not sure Walker and Sherman are the answers here.

Its probably not about culprits as such, the reason I am highlighting Boyd, Cross, etc is not that they aren't performing, its that they are getting older, and we have ready made replacements that would not diminish our performance too much if they were given the opportunity. Reid, Addison and Ward (and even Gia) could get all get reasonable stats if they spent the time in the midfield that Boyd and Cross do. With Libba and Wallis down the track we are very well stocked for clearance specialists, and should be looking at moving on one of the club's experienced clearance specialists if we can get good value - again not because they aren't good, but because they are good, would get a good trade value and are replaceable.

Another point is where the tackles are made, and the chase/defensive pressure. Boyd and Cross tackle in the midfield. We need a pacy forward who tackles (and kick a goal).

Don't think Sherman and Walker add to our team significantly enough compared to the downside of lack of tackling and ball use (Sherman especially). Jordy was quick but didn't do much else and he now plays Coburg 2s

Cameron and Monty would have been in and around the leadership group when they were traded, so I think the concept that our club would be ripped apart if we say traded a Boyd or a Cross is overstated.

With Carlton losing Grigg and MacLean struggling for fitness, you'd think they will be massively into an in and under player. I reckon we could get overs for Boyd or Cross, or even Addison. I just hope the 'overs' would be one of their small forwards rather than Walker



You make some good points Kelvinator and I don't totally disagree with you. But you can write a 100 page reason for trading Boyd or Cross, the MC will never do it. Nor should they. It would be a bold move though.

[The Coon Dog]

I'd say that we would have enough room to recruit a couple of those players if we traded out a couple. Obviously Johnson, Akermanis and Eagleton leaving all help a little, but the verteran cap plus wage cuts for that extra year mean they won't leave a big hole, especially with our anitcipation of this allowing the like of Griffen and Cooney to get raises. However with the money allocated to Harbrow we should be able to fit them in, otherwise we wouldn't bother trading for them.

Factor in the other way Gilbee & Hargrave going onto the Veteren's List, frees up a few dollars.

[LostDoggy]

Very tight for salary cap. It would be very difficult to land a high priced recruit.

I was afraid of that, can we afford any of them? Personally I wouldnt even entertain Sherman, Brisbane created the mess let them suffer I say. I think Walker could offer something but we need to fix our forward line speed and pressure. Jetta was my main hope but going by his Sister he was supposed to sign a week ago but he wants 100k more than they are prepared to offer, Im sure they will work it out.

[GVGjr]

I was afraid of that, can we afford any of them? Personally I wouldnt even entertain Sherman, Brisbane created the mess let them suffer I say. I think Walker could offer something but we need to fix our forward line speed and pressure. Jetta was my main hope but going by his Sister he was supposed to sign a week ago but he wants 100k more than they are prepared to offer, Im sure they will work it out.

As TCD pointed out, there might be some room but not a lot of it.

[LostDoggy]

As TCD pointed out, there might be some room but not a lot of it.

Ok cheers, well Im looking forward to an active Trade Week anyway. Heres hoping we get what we need. :)

[Jasper]

Trade Predict:

Get: Sherman, Walker, Djerkurra, 2nd/3rd round Pick
Lose: Harbrow - Comp Pick, Everitt, Hill, Stack

with a lot of buggerising around with third party clubs and draft picks to get Walker...think Harbrow pick will be a straight swap for Sherman.

Would prefer we loaded up on draft picks/young players with potential, rather than trade for list cloggers.

3rd rd for Nahas
Hill for Vezpremi (with balancing picks)
Keep Everitt and use him to replace Hargrave
Draft for hard running mids with skills, noting outside mids can make an immediate impact (North got Bastinac with a pick around 20, Jetta was Pick 14) and from all accounts this year's draft runs to Pick 30

And yes, Boyd for Betts (with balancing picks)

[stefoid]

re-signed? Or quit Essendon?

re-signed

[mjp]

Trade Predict:

Get: Sherman, Walker, Djerkurra, 2nd/3rd round Pick
Lose: Harbrow - Comp Pick, Everitt, Hill, Stack

with a lot of buggerising around with third party clubs and draft picks to get Walker...think Harbrow pick will be a straight swap for Sherman.

Would prefer we loaded up on draft picks/young players with potential, rather than trade for list cloggers.

3rd rd for Nahas
Hill for Vezpremi (with balancing picks)
Keep Everitt and use him to replace Hargrave
Draft for hard running mids with skills, noting outside mids can make an immediate impact (North got Bastinac with a pick around 20, Jetta was Pick 14) and from all accounts this year's draft runs to Pick 30

And yes, Boyd for Betts (with balancing picks)

- How would Everitt replace Hargrave? Everitt has shown a bit, I agree - but he sure hasn't shown the ability to play a strong defensive role which Shaggy often does.
- Hard-running mids with skills? Awesome. Who? If you believe the draft runs to pick 30 then we are screwed because we wont have a live pick before then. And you want hard running mids with skills, but want Walker and Sherman who can't kick? I don't get this. (Or maybe that is what you are saying will happen but you hope it doesn't - it is a bit unclear).
- Boyd for Betts? Wow. No thanks. We need to work around Boyd's weaknesses, I agree. You can't trade away the heart of your club though. 3 prelims in a row ain't bad - he has been a massive part of our success.
- 3rd round for Nahas who couldn't get a game with the Tiges? Wow. Isn't Nahas one of the list cloggers you are talking about?

[LostDoggy]

And yes, Boyd for Betts (with balancing picks)

You may have missed this sensible quote..


I can't fathom this fascination with trading the likes of Boyd! Players like him are the internal fabric of the club and trading the like is paramount to Football suicide...
Give it a spell

This is what I hate most about Trade Week. Im not trying to target you specifically so don't take this personally, but generally making up absurd/unrealistic/random trades is a waste of a post IMO. That stuff needs to stick to BF. Im not saying I hate trade week or coming up with little trades myself, but there is no point come out and saying <One of our best players in the past 5 years loved by the club and our supporters> can p1ss off for a <insert random contracted player who we may provide an option up forward> It has as much likelihood as me saying 'Lets trade Callan Ward for Leon Davis because we need a forward'. :rolleyes:

[Remi Moses]

I've said it once and I'll say it again you do not sell the fabric of the club.
It is Football suicide of the highest order,and is pointless talking about it!

[Jasper]

- How would Everitt replace Hargrave? Everitt has shown a bit, I agree - but he sure hasn't shown the ability to play a strong defensive role which Shaggy often does.
- Hard-running mids with skills? Awesome. Who? If you believe the draft runs to pick 30 then we are screwed because we wont have a live pick before then. And you want hard running mids with skills, but want Walker and Sherman who can't kick? I don't get this. (Or maybe that is what you are saying will happen but you hope it doesn't - it is a bit unclear).
- Boyd for Betts? Wow. No thanks. We need to work around Boyd's weaknesses, I agree. You can't trade away the heart of your club though. 3 prelims in a row ain't bad - he has been a massive part of our success.
- 3rd round for Nahas who couldn't get a game with the Tiges? Wow. Isn't Nahas one of the list cloggers you are talking about?

I concede you have me beat, if you are going to misread things fine. Boyd and balancing picks, I would be suggesting we'd get a top 20 pick for Boyd with Betts, plus the Harbrow pick, there's two top thirty picks, but anyway carry on.

Its a view that isn't popular but I say don't trade top thirty picks on players like Sherman or Walker, trade top 40-50 pick for Nahas and what have you got to lose? I'd prefer Nahas to Djerkurra any day of the week, at least Nahas has some established AFL form.

And how would we know what Everitt can do, he's been in and out, and I do know Hargrave under pressure will blindly kick it forward to turn it over. I do know we have Wood, Morris, Williams and Lake to play lock down roles, how many lock down players do you need?

I am suggesting we should not burn top 30 picks on Sherman and Walker, and that we should persist with Everitt, and if we trade then trade an over 28 year old. I am suggesting we trade 3rd or 4th round picks on player types we need.

..anyway mate, its staring you in the face, our list is poised on the edge of a cliff and a season or two of doing nothing about it or using good draft picks to recruit list cloggers, will see it crash.

But carry on, stick your hands over your ears, shut your eyes, and say it ain't so..and things will be just fine.

[Remi Moses]

Andrejs is a real tease,doesn't seem strong enough or defensive minded to hold down a KP.
He isn't nimble or clever enough to play in the midfield,he seems to have the same intensity as that idiot brother.Think he'll go

[soupman]

Its a view that isn't popular but I say don't trade top thirty picks on players like Sherman or Walker, trade top 40-50 pick for Nahas and what have you got to lose? I'd prefer Nahas to Djerkurra any day of the week, at least Nahas has some established AFL form.


To get quality you have to give up quality. Nahas at best will be useful player for us. This is reflected in his price. Walker has the ability to be very good, as does Sherman. Their higher price comes with higher potential.

We've done plenty of the "what have you got to lose trades" in the past. Tim Callan, Adam Morgan, Andrew McDougall etc. The fact of the matter is that only on rare ocassions do these players turn into something else.

[LostDoggy]

I concede you have me beat, if you are going to misread things fine. Boyd and balancing picks, I would be suggesting we'd get a top 20 pick for Boyd with Betts, plus the Harbrow pick, there's two top thirty picks, but anyway carry on.

Why would Carlton do that trade? If Carlton wanted Boyd that badly they would ask him to walk and get him a lot cheaper.
On one hand you are saying Boyd is worth Betts and a pick inside 20 but at same time telling Carlton he isn't required by us. It doesn't add up.

[Jasper]

You may have missed this sensible quote..



This is what I hate most about Trade Week. Im not trying to target you specifically so don't take this personally, but generally making up absurd/unrealistic/random trades is a waste of a post IMO. That stuff needs to stick to BF. Im not saying I hate trade week or coming up with little trades myself, but there is no point come out and saying <One of our best players in the past 5 years loved by the club and our supporters> can p1ss off for a <insert random contracted player who we may provide an option up forward> It has as much likelihood as me saying 'Lets trade Callan Ward for Leon Davis because we need a forward'. :rolleyes:

Not taking personally, just thought this was forum for ideas, and no one here seems to be concerned about the fact that our top 10 b & f was loaded with older players, that we have no forward defensive pressure and none of the list management ideas seems to want to address this other than bringing in wayward, inconsistent Shermo and the non tackling Walker.

I admit that it's unlikely in the extreme Boyd will get traded. Doesn't mean its a bad idea though but hey okay I won't bring it up again.

But okay talking reality well, bring on Shermo and Walker, I just love the fact that they can run...really run, lots of running - I really hope they turn into the guns some here think they will.

[Jasper]

To get quality you have to give up quality. Nahas at best will be useful player for us. This is reflected in his price. Walker has the ability to be very good, as does Sherman. Their higher price comes with higher potential.

We've done plenty of the "what have you got to lose trades" in the past. Tim Callan, Adam Morgan, Andrew McDougall etc. The fact of the matter is that only on rare ocassions do these players turn into something else.

Barry Hall.

Would have thought the fact that Sherman and Walker are older would mean they are more likely to have already reached their potential, so its a case of what you see is what you get. Walker injured, bung shoulders, doesn't tackle, but can run, and Sherman reminds me of Brett Peake and Brett went well until he turned it over about 100 times in a grand final.

[mjp]

I concede you have me beat, if you are going to misread things fine. Boyd and balancing picks, I would be suggesting we'd get a top 20 pick for Boyd with Betts, plus the Harbrow pick, there's two top thirty picks, but anyway carry on.

Aha...so now you add in the bit about a top 20 pick. Before it was a balancing pick. But whatever. If you think Carlton would give up a top 20 pick PLUS Betts for Boyd then you fit into the 'delusional' category.

When are people going to get it? Clubs will be treating first round picks like solid gold for the next three years because there just aren't that many of them. Still waiting to hear on who you would draft by the way.



Its a view that isn't popular but I say don't trade top thirty picks on players like Sherman or Walker, trade top 40-50 pick for Nahas and what have you got to lose? I'd prefer Nahas to Djerkurra any day of the week, at least Nahas has some established AFL form.


Nahas has established form? Not really. A couple of good games for a bottom side really means nothing. He isn't exactly Haydn Ballantyne.

But I agree that I wouldn't give up a top 30 pick on Sherman or Walker. I don't want either player at any value, but that has more to do with kicking skills+salary than anything else.



And how would we know what Everitt can do, he's been in and out, and I do know Hargrave under pressure will blindly kick it forward to turn it over. I do know we have Wood, Morris, Williams and Lake to play lock down roles, how many lock down players do you need?


Everitt has played enough to make a spot in the side his own. He hasn't, and we can blame the coach all we like.

Are we defining Wood as a lock-down now are we? Lake sure as hell isn't. I agree, Williams and Morris struggle with attacking play and anyone who uses this board could tell you I have massive issues with the team anytime Addison/Callan/Tiller are selected in the back 6 anytime Morris and Williams are already playing.

That doesn't mean to say that you don't need other players who CAN lock down when an opponent gets on top. Hargrave can play on smalls and (some) taller players as well (better on smalls I admit) but he will shut them down. Everitt doesn't.



I am suggesting we should not burn top 30 picks on Sherman and Walker, and that we should persist with Everitt, and if we trade then trade an over 28 year old. I am suggesting we trade 3rd or 4th round picks on player types we need.


Fine. I get that.



..anyway mate, its staring you in the face, our list is poised on the edge of a cliff and a season or two of doing nothing about it or using good draft picks to recruit list cloggers, will see it crash.

But carry on, stick your hands over your ears, shut your eyes, and say it ain't so..and things will be just fine.

The edge of a cliff? Stop reading the Herald Sun and watch the games. I agree that we need more forward pressure - again, any reader of the board could tell you I have been cracking the sads since trade week 2009 about our likely forward line and setup. I just don't get how trading Boyd helps that...

Now I know you will take the "The club is bigger", "Take emotion out of it" whatever approach, but footy clubs don't work that way. You can't trade away the heart of the playing group. Yes, it is a business but you need the players to play with passion and emotion - treating it as a business by trading away their mate - particularly one who they know busts his bum for the side, is not the message to send.

Our balance is better now than it was a couple of weeks ago. Young forwards Jones and Grant will work well with Hall and Gia. Ward, Cooney, Higgins and Griffen are all young mids who will fit in well with Boyd and Cross. Wood and Williams are young and will work in with Lake, Morris and Hargrave. Roughead is young and will fit in with Hudson.

Then there are 4 first rounders who we have on the list still yet to play: Howard, Cordy, Wallis and Liberatore.

Yes, we should cut hard into the list (which I said we should have done 12-months ago) and Stack, Tiller, Callan (retired anyway) and Thorne all need to be removed. Only one of Mulligan and Boumann should be retained. On top of the Eagleton retirement, we should have 5-6 new players this year.

Then again, I expected trouble and a bottom half of the 8 finish this year - lot's of people said we would win the GF. As usual, the truth was somewhere in the middle (just like it is with our two points of view).

[Dancin' Douggy]

Barry Hall.

Would have thought the fact that Sherman and Walker are older would mean they are more likely to have already reached their potential, so its a case of what you see is what you get. Walker injured, bung shoulders, doesn't tackle, but can run, and Sherman reminds me of Brett Peake and Brett went well until he turned it over about 100 times in a grand final.

Brett Peake was unwatchable yesterday. So predictably awful.
Maybe that should be a new thread.....

[GVGjr]

Kel, I don't think anyone is saying that if a great deal came up that trading the likes of Boyd or Cross wouldn't be considered but it's very unlikely that a club will chase them that hard.
Despite their age and some deficiencies in their game they are more or less going to be at the club for the next few seasons.

It seems you are desperate to address the small crumbing forward role but I certainly don't see the likes of Betts or Nahas as the answer. There might be some other clubs that would be interested in parting with a small forward as well.

I'm not going to go over it again why I think Walker might be a good fit for us so I guess I won't swing you around to that point of view. At the very least I think most people should be able to see some upside in getting a player like him.

I'm not sold on getting Sherman mainly because of his high salary.

This should be a busy trade period and if you believe the media we have made our intentions known that we will have a crack at adding about 3 players.

[Jasper]

Then there are 4 first rounders who we have on the list still yet to play: Howard, Cordy, Wallis and Liberatore.

Yes, we should cut hard into the list (which I said we should have done 12-months ago) and Stack, Tiller, Callan (retired anyway) and Thorne all need to be removed. Only one of Mulligan and Boumann should be retained. On top of the Eagleton retirement, we should have 5-6 new players this year.

Then again, I expected trouble and a bottom half of the 8 finish this year - lot's of people said we would win the GF. As usual, the truth was somewhere in the middle (just like it is with our two points of view).

Agree on all of this list wise. Hope Cordy's shoulders hold together what are we up to now shoulder reco number two? Howard is wait and see. Wallis and Libba should be okay.

When I say lockdown defender, I mean can play lock down roles, Wood, Lake (you have watched him slaughter Buddy right?), Morris, and Williams can all play this role, Murph and Gilbee are our run. Everitt could play a similar role if given a chance ahead of Hargrave next year, if not we whould be trade Everitt for what we can and be done with it.

[Mantis]

I'm not sold on getting Sherman mainly because of his high salary.



If we were to sign Sherman to a 3 yr deal how much do you think we would pay him?

[GVGjr]

If we were to sign Sherman to a 3 yr deal how much do you think we would pay him?

Not sure but I wouldn't think we should go much over $800,000 for 3 years. If the Lions are keen to assist then that changes things.

[azabob]

Personally I'm not liking the noise from the club we will be aggressive during trade week.

I would much prefer we don't trade any of our draft picks and only trade players who want out - if any. Reality is you need to give something up to get something.

I'm sure if a club offered Everitt or Hill gametime they would wish to leave so they may be our only option for trades. Perhaps look to trade Minson if the right deal came up such as a quick on-baller or a quick small forward who can kick goals and puts on defensive pressure. However this scenerio seems unlikely.

My preference would be to keep the Harbrow pick - Do we use it this year or in the future? I'm not sure.

It is going to be a very fine balance as other posters have said we need to get some more mature bodies into our club but the cost cannot be too great wether that be in terms of trading to get them or paying to much salary cap wise.

[Mantis]

Not sure but I wouldn't think we should go much over $800,000 for 3 years. If the Lions are keen to assist then that changes things.

That amount won't get the deal done.

For similiar ranked players (in age, experience & expectations) your wage would have him the lowest paid player at the club.

[G-Mo77]

That amount won't get the deal done.

For similiar ranked players (in age, experience & expectations) your wage would have him the lowest paid player at the club.

So would around $400K per season be closer.

[Mantis]

So would around $400K per season be closer.

I would think something around $350-375K per year would be a reasonable figure.

[GVGjr]

That amount won't get the deal done.

For similiar ranked players (in age, experience & expectations) your wage would have him the lowest paid player at the club.

I didn't expect so and that why I mentioned the Lions having to chip in. I think we could justify $300K per season but anything more I don't think is money that well spent.

What we would have to give up in draft picks or players is definitely a consideration.

If we can off load a contract then we might have more to splash around.

[LostDoggy]

Andrejs is a real tease,doesn't seem strong enough or defensive minded to hold down a KP.
He isn't nimble or clever enough to play in the midfield,he seems to have the same intensity as that idiot brother.Think he'll go

Peter the Mentor :D

[Jasper]

It seems you are desperate to address the small crumbing forward role but I certainly don't see the likes of Betts or Nahas as the answer. There might be some other clubs that would be interested in parting with a small forward as well.

I'm not going to go over it again why I think Walker might be a good fit for us so I guess I won't swing you around to that point of view.


I think someone said Walker could be a good 'run with player', which given his lack of tackling, is a very accurate description.

I believe the single greatest weakness in our list is our lack of pace and tackling pressure forward. Gia, Higgins, Hall, Jones (has the intent, not the agility), do not have the explosive speed to bring people down. Only Grant has this. I think we need at least one more quick player to terrorise the opposition, and while that player may not great, they could play a role.

I am open to other clubs' forwards, have picked Carlton because they appear to have an excess of small forwards and lack in and under mids (and we are the reverse).

[LostDoggy]

Complete hypothetical -- Leon Davis seems to be fringe at the Pies now, they would have wanted the world for him a season ago, what do you think he is worth now? -- Collingwood probably would still want a lot. High tackling small forward, unloved by Malthouse. Yes, goes missing in bigger games, but would still command a good defender. Would we be interested, and what would it take?

EDIT: Now I'm reading that Collingwood is wanting to turnover their list significantly for cap and retirement issues, Leon has been floated, would definitely fit the bill needs wise...

[Mofra]

And how would we know what Everitt can do, he's been in and out, and I do know Hargrave under pressure will blindly kick it forward to turn it over. I do know we have Wood, Morris, Williams and Lake to play lock down roles, how many lock down players do you need?
For a defensive unit, you actually need 6. If one guy doesn't put body pressure on or his concentration wanes, he will be picked out. Any forward at AFL level with an advantage like that over their defender will slaughter them. Heck, Higgins had 4 shots on goal against Milburn in the 09 prelim in a quarter because we exposed a class difference.

I don't understand the fascination with Everitt being the panacea to all our woes - he is a guy who is obviously talented and who is not amongst our best 6 defenders, best 6 midfielders, best 6 forwards and has a few ahead of him for the 2nd ruck spot as well.
As he can't define his own role in the side and still has currency, he's the first player I'd put on the trade table - as a side we lose little (21st/22nd player picked), but potentially gain something that does address a weakness.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Sherman is interesting

I'm not fully sold on him as a player. Seems like he is missing something mentally that he can go missing for long periods of time, but he is an intriguing talent.

But interesting the Swants have reportedly thrown 4 years 1.6 million dollar offer to him. The Swans have a good record on recruiting players from other clubs.

Maybe we will be outbid on him anyway, but he is clearly the type of player we do need

[mighty_west]

Complete hypothetical -- Leon Davis seems to be fringe at the Pies now, they would have wanted the world for him a season ago, what do you think he is worth now? -- Collingwood probably would still want a lot. High tackling small forward, unloved by Malthouse. Yes, goes missing in bigger games, but would still command a good defender. Would we be interested, and what would it take?

EDIT: Now I'm reading that Collingwood is wanting to turnover their list significantly for cap and retirement issues, Leon has been floated, would definitely fit the bill needs wise...

No thanks, he is a proven failure in big finals, another home & away bully boy.

[soupman]

Barry Hall.

Would have thought the fact that Sherman and Walker are older would mean they are more likely to have already reached their potential, so its a case of what you see is what you get. Walker injured, bung shoulders, doesn't tackle, but can run, and Sherman reminds me of Brett Peake and Brett went well until he turned it over about 100 times in a grand final.

Barry Hall was cheap because we had no competition for him, he was of no value to Sydney and with his age and violent history could have easily fallen in the Allen Jackovich category of impact.

Walker and Sherman represent more value because they have both shown a capability to perform well at a high level in good sides for longer than a Nahas has. I'm pretty sure they are both around 24 and should be hitting their peak in the next few years. They are also both required players for their clubs.

It is for these reasons that we have to give up quality for them. The only similiarity guys like Peake had shown is that their age is similiar, and this is why guys like Peake don't command as much (and he still got pick 48- ouch)..

[Mantis]

It is for these reasons that we have to give up quality for them. The only similiarity guys like Peake had shown is that their age is similiar, and this is why guys like Peake cost nothing.

Peake still cost St.Kilda a 3rd round pick (pick #48).

[The Coon Dog]

Peake still cost St.Kilda a 3rd round pick (pick #48).

You could argue he cost them a Premiership too!

[Mantis]

You could argue he cost them a Premiership too!

Him and about 6 or 8 of his mates.

How we can't beat a team with as many spuds as St.Kilda defies all logic.

[The Coon Dog]

Him and about 6 or 8 of his mates.

How we can't beat a team with as many spuds as St.Kilda defies all logic.

Is there a team where the best & worst 6 players are so far apart as St.Kilda?

[Desipura]

Him and about 6 or 8 of his mates.

How we can't beat a team with as many spuds as St.Kilda defies all logic.
Their better player (leaders) are better than ours, but still well short of Collingwoods as we witnessed on Saturday.

[Mofra]

Is there a team where the best & worst 6 players are so far apart as St.Kilda?
We'd need to go back to the black & white TV days to find another side like them. Goddard, Roo & Hayes could argue they belong in the top 10 players in the competition.
It's like an u14s side.

[Mantis]

Their better player (leaders) are better than ours, but still well short of Collingwoods as we witnessed on Saturday.

St.Kilda's best 6 would be the best collection of quality players in the competition, including Collingwood.

Collingwood while having some 'star' power are extremely even and get a very good contribution across the board, plus are a well drilled outfit and play at a high tempo.

[Desipura]

- Our backline needs to tighten up even more (hoping Williams can develop further)
We need more aggressive players on our list, not just players who tackle with no intent. I want players who thrive on it. The tackles have to hurt their opponents.

- Speedy midfielders (Collingwood have proven if you have an ability to tackle with intent, have pace, the rest will take care fo itself.
People are so caught up with getting players who can kick the ball, thats all well and good, I think strength and pace are equally as important.

My case in point, the following players are not the best of kicks when kicking to a teammate, they do however either have pace and/or are able to tackle with intent.


Toovey, Johnson, O'Brien, Heath Shaw, Leigh Brown, Luke Ball, Dane Swan, Travis Cloke.

- Goalsneak - more speed near the goals. I expect him to be at the fall of the ball when Jones and Roughead spill a mark, needs to thrive on tackling.


PS. Dale Thomas is an example of a player who tackles with intent even though he is built like a twig.

How do we get these types of players

The more I think about it, the more I am warming to the idea of getting Sherman and Walker as they address these issues.

[The Pie Man]

You could argue he cost them a Premiership too!

I can imagine Ross Lyon watching that mare of a turnover cost them all momentum thinking 'why couldn't Lovett had stayed in that night?'

He would've been very handy on Saturday, and kept Peake out of the side. He also had a key turnover in the 1st quarter in the draw, completely missing/over-overkicking to Milne (I think) and Collingwood scored from the turn-over

[LostDoggy]

PS. Dale Thomas is an example of a player who tackles with intent even though he is built like a twig.


But can't win a contested ball. Addison/Picken >>>>>>>> Thomas

[LostDoggy]

The edge of a cliff? Stop reading the Herald Sun and watch the games. I agree that we need more forward pressure - again, any reader of the board could tell you I have been cracking the sads since trade week 2009 about our likely forward line and setup. I just don't get how trading Boyd helps that...

Now I know you will take the "The club is bigger", "Take emotion out of it" whatever approach, but footy clubs don't work that way. You can't trade away the heart of the playing group. Yes, it is a business but you need the players to play with passion and emotion - treating it as a business by trading away their mate - particularly one who they know busts his bum for the side, is not the message to send.

Our balance is better now than it was a couple of weeks ago. Young forwards Jones and Grant will work well with Hall and Gia. Ward, Cooney, Higgins and Griffen are all young mids who will fit in well with Boyd and Cross. Wood and Williams are young and will work in with Lake, Morris and Hargrave. Roughead is young and will fit in with Hudson.

Then there are 4 first rounders who we have on the list still yet to play: Howard, Cordy, Wallis and Liberatore.

Yes, we should cut hard into the list (which I said we should have done 12-months ago) and Stack, Tiller, Callan (retired anyway) and Thorne all need to be removed. Only one of Mulligan and Boumann should be retained. On top of the Eagleton retirement, we should have 5-6 new players this year.

Then again, I expected trouble and a bottom half of the 8 finish this year - lot's of people said we would win the GF. As usual, the truth was somewhere in the middle (just like it is with our two points of view).


Outstanding post!!

I read with interest when you stated that we would be in trouble this year, your rationale was sound then and played out exactly that way.

Our list has far more upside than many give it credit for, the neucleus of our side is still very much alive. We looked slow and tired this year as a result of having a forward line full of slow unaacountable players unable or unwilling to chase and tackle. This lack of pressure puts the midfield under enormous strain and hence why the flood gates were open on a regular basis.

Jones and Grant chase all day, bring in a fit higgins to compliment Gia and Baz, I dare say we're trading for a bit of pace up forward so I think you'll see a far different, more accountable forward line.

Our midfield is a strength, we were number one for contested ball and clearances, a fit Ward and Cooney does nothing to hurt this. Down back we were second for points conceeded for the majority of the year, and given the lack of pressure at half forward and the ball streaming in, I think our backline has done an outstanding job. Shags will be fit, he played for ages with a broken ankle, Gilbee worries me though, doesn't work hard enough, looks slow and very disinterested, surely he can't be that bad next year.

I am far more excited about or prospects next year than I have been this year. I reckon with a few smart trades, some pace and pressure in the forward line, the rest of our structure is quite sound and there is no reason why we can't give collingwood a shake next year.

[Mantis]

But can't win a contested ball. Addison/Picken >>>>>>>> Thomas

Funniest thing I have read today... Thanks.

[Desipura]

Funniest thing I have read today... Thanks.
Beat me to it.

[mighty_west]

- Our backline needs to tighten up even more (hoping Williams can develop further)
We need more aggressive players on our list, not just players who tackle with no intent. I want players who thrive on it. The tackles have to hurt their opponents.

- Speedy midfielders (Collingwood have proven if you have an ability to tackle with intent, have pace, the rest will take care fo itself.
People are so caught up with getting players who can kick the ball, thats all well and good, I think strength and pace are equally as important.

My case in point, the following players are not the best of kicks when kicking to a teammate, they do however either have pace and/or are able to tackle with intent.


Toovey, Johnson, O'Brien, Heath Shaw, Leigh Brown, Luke Ball, Dane Swan, Travis Cloke.

- Goalsneak - more speed near the goals. I expect him to be at the fall of the ball when Jones and Roughead spill a mark, needs to thrive on tackling.


PS. Dale Thomas is an example of a player who tackles with intent even though he is built like a twig.

How do we get these types of players

The more I think about it, the more I am warming to the idea of getting Sherman and Walker as they address these issues.

As far as a goal sneak goes, really hope we get more games into Hooper next year, he could be that hard nut tackling machine up forward who can also chip in for 2 or 3 goals a game, rather than some flaky small forward that may pull some goals out of his behind in the easy games, but get found wanting in the big games, and also sit back & not help out his team mates by simply watching opposition defenders run off.

[stefoid]

Blight and Corrie delisted by Collingwood - both fast. Pies fans seem genuinely suprised Blight was delisted.

Anyone know anything about them?

[LostDoggy]

Doubt Corrie will be picked up, it will be third time lucky for him.

[mjp]

I am not surprised Blight has been delisted.

He is talented enough to get a second chance, but is one player who does not deal well with a culture of player driven feedback.

[mighty_west]

Doubt Corrie will be picked up, it will be third time lucky for him.

Nah he just doesn't seem up to it, looked "OK" early on with Brisbane, but hardly fired a shot after been given another opportunity with Collingwood.

[stefoid]

I am not surprised Blight has been delisted.

He is talented enough to get a second chance, but is one player who does not deal well with a culture of player driven feedback.

Rookie?

[Desipura]

As far as a goal sneak goes, really hope we get more games into Hooper next year, he could be that hard nut tackling machine up forward who can also chip in for 2 or 3 goals a game, rather than some flaky small forward that may pull some goals out of his behind in the easy games, but get found wanting in the big games, and also sit back & not help out his team mates by simply watching opposition defenders run off.
Sorry, I cant put Hooper in my starting 22 on the back of one game where he got 5 possies and showed no appetite to tackle or pace.

Im not saying he does not have these qualities, just way too early for me to consider him in my starting lineup.

[Greystache]

Sorry, I cant put Hooper in my starting 22 on the back of one game where he got 5 possies and showed no appetite to tackle or pace.

Im not saying he does not have these qualities, just way too early for me to consider him in my starting lineup.

I think he'll be in the mix but will need to improve some of his weaknesses during the preseason, as well as show some form in the NAB cup. I certainly don't think he'd be an automatic at this stage.

[mighty_west]

Sorry, I cant put Hooper in my starting 22 on the back of one game where he got 5 possies and showed no appetite to tackle or pace.

Im not saying he does not have these qualities, just way too early for me to consider him in my starting lineup.

Hooper really started off solid in the pre season games for Willy, i'd like to think he could be at least pressing for a round 1 spot, and if he improves from his 2010 season, i can't see a reason not for him to get given opportunties.

[LostDoggy]

With our proven strength of recruiting well from late picks and the rookie draft, I think maybe we should dish off our high picks for proven players, as we're using them for father-sons anyway, have enough good kids coming through and need to decide whether we're building or going for a flag.

[Greystache]

With our proven strength of recruiting well from late picks and the rookie draft, I think maybe we should dish off our high picks for proven players, as we're using them for father-sons anyway, have enough good kids coming through and need to decide whether we're building or going for a flag.

I don't understand what you mean, are you saying we should trade our early picks rather than taking Wallis and Liberatore jnrs?

[Mantis]

With our proven strength of recruiting well from late picks and the rookie draft, I think maybe we should dish off our high picks for proven players, as we're using them for father-sons anyway, have enough good kids coming through and need to decide whether we're building or going for a flag.

Am I reading this part wrong or does this part make absolutely no sense?

[LostDoggy]

I just hope we get - Sherman, Walker, Djek, and a young tall defender and a quick crumbing forward!

I really hope we dont lose Everitt as I think he could be very important next year with the 3 and 1 sub rule and he has heaps of talent and if he can get to his first season form it will be great but If we get Walker we will definently lose him!

[Sockeye Salmon]

I just hope we get - Sherman, Walker, Djek, and a young tall defender and a quick crumbing forward!

I really hope we dont lose Everitt as I think he could be very important next year with the 3 and 1 sub rule and he has heaps of talent and if he can get to his first season form it will be great but If we get Walker we will definently lose him!

So you want everyone with giving up anyone?

Maybe next year they'll let us play with 23 as well.

[LostDoggy]

So you want everyone with giving up anyone?

Maybe next year they'll let us play with 23 as well.

Sorry I dont understand what you mean, so I want everyone with giving up anyone?

[chef]

With our proven strength of recruiting well from late picks and the rookie draft, I think maybe we should dish off our high picks for proven players, as we're using them for father-sons anyway, have enough good kids coming through and need to decide whether we're building or going for a flag.

This was because of Clayton, it is still yet to be seen if Dalrymple is as good in this area.

[chef]

I just hope we get - Sherman, Walker, Djek, and a young tall defender and a quick crumbing forward!

I really hope we dont lose Everitt as I think he could be very important next year with the 3 and 1 sub rule and he has heaps of talent and if he can get to his first season form it will be great but If we get Walker we will definently lose him!

I doubt we can get both of these guys, but hopefully we end up with at least one.

[LostDoggy]

I doubt we can get both of these guys, but hopefully we end up with at least one.

I think we will definently get Walker, and Sherman would be a bonus!

[Sockeye Salmon]

Sorry I dont understand what you mean, so I want everyone with giving up anyone?




I just hope we get - Sherman, Walker, Djek, and a young tall defender and a quick crumbing forward!

You want to bring in 5 players but don't want to trade Everitt.

Who do you intend to use as trade bait to get these 5 players?

[Doc26]

I think we will definently get Walker, and Sherman would be a bonus!

What makes you so certain of picking up Andrew Walker ?

Just because we may have expressed that we're going to be players in trade week doesn't give us right of passage to anyone out there. There are sixteen clubs all out there trying to better their own position. For example, Geelong may see an Andrew Walker as a suitable replacement for a Darren Milburn. They're cashed up with selections (& no F&S commitments). If Carlton believe they might be better off with a M Warnock or Taylor Walker type etc then we could get shut out from discussions. Two of our first 3 selections are all but a done deal with Tom and Mitch with only the Harbrow selection of decent value. It will come down to the currency of Andrejs, Josh and whoever else we elect to deal with whether as direct trades or as selections to be ontraded. There is a lot of wheeling and dealing to be done yet to be claiming any certainties before trade week begins.

[Dazza]

But can't win a contested ball. Addison/Picken >>>>>>>> Thomas

Hatred can really blind people....

[LostDoggy]

Well he wants to come to us and apparently (Its only off some guy who claims to have inside info on twitter so Im not taking it too seriously) its pretty much sewn up him for Everitt, but I know its not definent but im confident.

And as I said I dont really want to lose Everitt but if we are getting Walker we will have to.

[jazzadogs]

But can't win a contested ball. Addison/Picken >>>>>>>> Thomas
couldn't*

This year he has proven again and again that he is a contested player, as much as it pains many to admit it.

[Sockeye Salmon]

What makes you so certain of picking up Andrew Walker ?

Just because we may have expressed that we're going to be players in trade week doesn't give us right of passage to anyone out there. There are sixteen clubs all out there trying to better their own position. For example, Geelong may see an Andrew Walker as a suitable replacement for a Darren Milburn. They're cashed up with selections (& no F&S commitments). If Carlton believe they might be better off with a M Warnock or Taylor Walker type etc then we could get shut out from discussions. Two of our first 3 selections are all but a done deal with Tom and Mitch with only the Harbrow selection of decent value. It will come down to the currency of Andrejs, Josh and whoever else we elect to deal with whether as direct trades or as selections to be ontraded. There is a lot of wheeling and dealing to be done yet to be claiming any certainties before trade week begins.

Once a player comes out and says "I want to be traded to ..." they usually are. Few clubs want someone on their list who doesn't want to be there, especially if it's a personality thing with the coach.

[BulldogBelle]

Outstanding post!!

I read with interest when you stated that we would be in trouble this year, your rationale was sound then and played out exactly that way.

Our list has far more upside than many give it credit for, the neucleus of our side is still very much alive. We looked slow and tired this year as a result of having a forward line full of slow unaacountable players unable or unwilling to chase and tackle. This lack of pressure puts the midfield under enormous strain and hence why the flood gates were open on a regular basis.

Jones and Grant chase all day, bring in a fit higgins to compliment Gia and Baz, I dare say we're trading for a bit of pace up forward so I think you'll see a far different, more accountable forward line.

Our midfield is a strength, we were number one for contested ball and clearances, a fit Ward and Cooney does nothing to hurt this. Down back we were second for points conceeded for the majority of the year, and given the lack of pressure at half forward and the ball streaming in, I think our backline has done an outstanding job. Shags will be fit, he played for ages with a broken ankle, Gilbee worries me though, doesn't work hard enough, looks slow and very disinterested, surely he can't be that bad next year.

I am far more excited about or prospects next year than I have been this year. I reckon with a few smart trades, some pace and pressure in the forward line, the rest of our structure is quite sound and there is no reason why we can't give collingwood a shake next year.



Spot on

After the 2007 debarcle, the club focused efforts on emulating the success that Geelong enjoyed, by developing an midfield which had strong, seasoned bodies, who are expert at clearances and have excellent skills. We will have that in 2010 through our raft of inside mids (Cross, Boyd, Ward, Reid, Cooney to an extent etc)

I dont think we are very far off, we simply need to add some quick outside players, who can gut run and carry the ball when required.

Collingwood's mids/runners spread much more effectively and efficiantly that anyone elses.

Without our 2010 versions of Hahn, Aker and Johno our forward line will be far more balanced.

Bottom line- we need some run and chase in our forward line, and some hard running mids (quick ones) who can recieve AND use the ball well

[Doc26]

Once a player comes out and says "I want to be traded to ..." they usually are. Few clubs want someone on their list who doesn't want to be there, especially if it's a personality thing with the coach.

Well we'll soon see. Didn't play out for Ryan O'Keefe when he requested a move. It's not like Walker holds a trump card of going into the National Draft and Carlton are not great at dealing with. I'm guessing Walker will move but wouldn't see as us as a given without all the machinations of trade week still to be played out. Walker may yet get an offer too good to refuse.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Well we'll soon see. Didn't play out for Ryan O'Keefe when he requested a move. It's not like Walker holds a trump card of going into the National Draft and Carlton are not great at dealing with. I'm guessing Walker will move but wouldn't see as us as a given without all the machinations of trade week still to be played out. Walker may yet get an offer too good to refuse.

O'Keefe differed from Walker in two ways.


O'Keefe is actually really good and worth fighting for, Walker isn't.

O'Keefe never had any issue with Roos or anyone else at Sydney, he just wanted to come home. Hawthorn contributed to O'Keefe staying by offering up a pitance for him. O'Keefe could easily have thought, "if that's all I'm worth to you, bugger it, I'll stay". Certainly that's what happened to West when Essendon promised him the world and then offered us a 2nd rounder for him.

[LostDoggy]

I find the whole idea of the club pursuing Walker and Sherman to be rather pointless. The club has stated that they're after outside runners who are ready made and in the 21-24 yr age bracket. Walker, while a high draft pick and good athletically is rather average with his disposal from what i've seen. Sherman is the same, quick, can kick goals, but his disposal is even worse than Walker.

I find the whole thing pointless because we already have a player ready made for this role. Everitt fits the criteria perfectly. He's 21, athletic, has better disposal than either of them, and can play anywhere. One of the reasons why he hasn't gotten consistant games was the view that the MC couldn' find a position for him, well now we have one. Everitt himself has even stated that his preferred position would be to play on the wing. We all saw what he did in his first year off half back, so why not give him the chance to make this position his own?

I would much rather the MC show some faith in him rather than let him go and pick up someone who in my opinion is not as good. I'd hate to see Everitt go to Carlton and become another Farren Ray, all because the MC had no faith.

[AndrewP6]

I would much rather the MC show some faith in him rather than let him go and pick up someone who in my opinion is not as good. I'd hate to see Everitt go to Carlton and become another Farren Ray, all because the MC had no faith.

A player who kicks sideways and backwards all the time? :)

[LostDoggy]

A player who kicks sideways and backwards all the time? :)

A lot of that has to do with the way St. Kilda play, which is why all their backline players take so many marks. But at least he can hit a target (mostly). Sherman on the other hand.....

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I find the whole idea of the club pursuing Walker and Sherman to be rather pointless. The club has stated that they're after outside runners who are ready made and in the 21-24 yr age bracket. Walker, while a high draft pick and good athletically is rather average with his disposal from what i've seen. Sherman is the same, quick, can kick goals, but his disposal is even worse than Walker.

I find the whole thing pointless because we already have a player ready made for this role. Everitt fits the criteria perfectly. He's 21, athletic, has better disposal than either of them, and can play anywhere. One of the reasons why he hasn't gotten consistant games was the view that the MC couldn' find a position for him, well now we have one. Everitt himself has even stated that his preferred position would be to play on the wing. We all saw what he did in his first year off half back, so why not give him the chance to make this position his own?

I would much rather the MC show some faith in him rather than let him go and pick up someone who in my opinion is not as good. I'd hate to see Everitt go to Carlton and become another Farren Ray, all because the MC had no faith.

Whilst the majority of your post has merit, Everitt is too slow to play on the wings. That's why we've found it difficult coming up with a position for him. He's not big enough to play KP and he's not quick enough to play midfield. If you lined him up on Sherman or Walker, he'd be run into the ground. Doesn't mean he's half the player they are, but wing's not his position.

Everitt needs to make the half forward/half back flanks his own. Whether that's at our club or another, we'll soon find out. I thought he showed positive signs in both the back and forward halves this season, so it's something to build on if he's given an opportunity.

We need some pace on those wings though.

[Remi Moses]

I Agree entirely. Everitt just hasn't consolidated a spot in the side,when he has played besides his first season hasn't stamped any authority on the game! He is such a tantalizing prospect who hasn't imposed himself unfortunately,just look at his last senior game ..Personally I think he's gawn

[GVGjr]

A player who kicks sideways and backwards all the time? :)

Or a player that is selected each week, has his coaches confidence and has doubled his tackling count.

[GVGjr]

I find the whole thing pointless because we already have a player ready made for this role. Everitt fits the criteria perfectly. He's 21, athletic, has better disposal than either of them, and can play anywhere. One of the reasons why he hasn't gotten consistant games was the view that the MC couldn' find a position for him, well now we have one. Everitt himself has even stated that his preferred position would be to play on the wing. We all saw what he did in his first year off half back, so why not give him the chance to make this position his own?

I would much rather the MC show some faith in him rather than let him go and pick up someone who in my opinion is not as good. I'd hate to see Everitt go to Carlton and become another Farren Ray, all because the MC had no faith.

I'm a fan of Everitt's potential but we have a bit of a stalemate occurring. We have a laconic player who hasn't adjusted his intensity to what is being asked of him and a coach that won't play him until he makes that adjustment.

The choice we are now faced with is either playing him regardless, holding him back until he lifts his work rate or look to trade him to a side that might be able to unlock his potential and get something decent in return.

Given that we are now changing over list, it's harder to see the value of him being outside of the best 22 and just being brought in to cover injuries.

[ReLoad]

Ok, here's the deal on Spider Jr.

The guy has had opportunities (now before you all get into some sort of fit of rage over this comment, think about it, the essendon game in the last round, was tailor made to dominate, but he failed to show up)

His intensity sucks on the football feild, no idea how hard he trains or what he is like around the club, but simply what i see when i watch a game he aint got it.

I also only saw 5 games of Willi this year and in each of those he also didnt have it (he wasnt alone either)

So, at the end of next year the guy walks for free, so i say lets get something for him now, likewise the same for Hill.

However Sherman and Walker are NOT the droids we are looking for.

[Mantis]

However Sherman and Walker are NOT the droids we are looking for.

Who are droids we should be looking at?

[chef]

However Sherman and Walker are NOT the droids we are looking for.

Disagree, they are perfectly what we need.

[Mantis]

From H/S (Jon Anderson):

Department of trades

Western Bulldogs

Needs - To find or develop another key forward with Barry Hall now 33. They also need young midfielders. (Obviously hasn't heard of Jones & Grant or Wallis, Liberatore & Ward)

Trade Potential - Andrejs Everitt, Will Minson, Josh Hill, Brennan Stack

Possibilities - Appear certain to get Nathan Djerrkura. They also like Blue Andrew Walker, Lion Justin Sherman and Pat Veszpremi from Sydney.

[chef]

From the AFL website

'WESTERN BULLDOGS
On the table: Josh Hill, Andrejs Everitt and Brennan Stack have all been mentioned. The Dogs are looking to be active in trade week, and would be heartened by how well the Barry Hall trade worked for them.
Targets: The Dogs are looking for midfield speed and crumbing forwards - some names so far are Patrick Veszpremi, Justin Sherman and Nathan Djerrkura. Names also being associated with the Bulldogs are Carlton's Andrew Walker and Geelong's Trent West. '

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/103710/default.aspx

[chef]

Fantasia up next on trade week radio.

http://www.afl.com.au/portals/0/2010/offseason/trw/index.html

[Mantis]

From the AFL website

'WESTERN BULLDOGS
On the table: Josh Hill, Andrejs Everitt and Brennan Stack have all been mentioned. The Dogs are looking to be active in trade week, and would be heartened by how well the Barry Hall trade worked for them.
Targets: The Dogs are looking for midfield speed and crumbing forwards - some names so far are Patrick Veszpremi, Justin Sherman and Nathan Djerrkura. Names also being associated with the Bulldogs are Carlton's Andrew Walker and Geelong's Trent West. '

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/103710/default.aspx

First time I have seen West's name pop up.

I guess if Minson is traded which has been rumoured West might give us some ruck depth and it might save us $150K which can be used elsewhere.

[G-Mo77]

Fantasia up next on trade week radio.

http://www.afl.com.au/portals/0/2010/offseason/trw/index.html

Hutchy. :rolleyes:

That guy makes me ill. He's currently drilling Fantasia about Everitt.

[Mofra]

First time I have seen West's name pop up.

I guess if Minson is traded which has been rumoured West might give us some ruck depth and it might save us $150K which can be used elsewhere.
First thing I thought of. I guess list management does have some similarities to Supercoach after all :cool:

[G-Mo77]

Fantasia just said on radio that Everitt is a required player and expects him to play 22 games in 2011.

Change of heart for both parties or a smokescreen?

[Doc26]

Fantasia just said on radio that Everitt is a required player and expects him to play 22 games in 2011.

Change of heart for both parties or a smokescreen?

Did he say whether it was with us ?

[Desipura]

Fantasia just said on radio that Everitt is a required player and expects him to play 22 games in 2011.

Change of heart for both parties or a smokescreen?
Smokescreen, a number of teams are interested, hoping that it will up his worth.

[Mantis]

First thing I thought of. I guess list management does have some similarities to Supercoach after all :cool:

Yep.

Sell when a player 'max's out', buy cheap to cover.

[G-Mo77]

Did he say whether it was with us ?

Well he did say he was contracted right before that. Take that for what it's worth. :)

[Curly5]

Live chat from the trade room on AFL site.

[Mantis]

Eade has mentioned to the media that Andrejs Everitt has asked to be traded, we are keen to keep him as he is contracted.

[Doc26]

Fantasia up next on trade week radio.

http://www.afl.com.au/portals/0/2010/offseason/trw/index.html

Did the AFL run trade week radio last year or is this a new initiative ?

[G-Mo77]

Did the AFL run trade week radio last year or is this a new initiative ?

First year

[wb_age]

Word from the horses mouth, Andy Walker "I want to play for the bulldogs"

He lives at edgewater and the whitten oval is his preference, fact.

[G-Mo77]

Word from the horses mouth, Andy Walker "I want to play for the bulldogs"

He lives at edgewater and the whitten oval is his preference, fact.

He is still under contract and we still have to make an appropriate play for him.

[wb_age]

He is still under contract and we still have to make an appropriate play for him.
Definitely plenty of water to go under the bridge yet, but if has told Carlton just as he told me of his preference, it would give us some bargaining power as he also has to agree to the trade and Carlton wouldn't want a player who didn't want to play for them.

[SlimPickens]

Libba and Wallis confirmed for our first two picks. Wallis first port Adelaide bidding for him, Libba next Sydney bidding for Libba.

[G-Mo77]

Dam you Sydney! :)

[Doc26]

Port Adelaide offered their pick 16 for Mitch Wallis; we then used our 1st round pick 22 to secure him.
Swans offered their pick 39 for Tom Liberatore; we then used our 2nd round pick 40 to secure him.

[aker39]

Tillers manager was just on SEN and he said that he has asked to be traded.

[stefoid]

Tillers manager was just on SEN and he said that he has asked to be traded.

yeah...OK.

[Jasper]

spoke with someone from the club at the GF on sat, they confirmed Sherman is at the top of our list(thought it was just about done). we do want walker but not likely to happen as carlton want to much. He also said we are interest in Ed Barlow in a big way, was at the club last week doing tests and they were blown away by engine.

[stefoid]

Now that is interesting.

[LostDoggy]

Will be interesting to see how things play out at Geelong during the week. With no senior coach, who will their future direction fall to over the next few weeks?

[anfo27]

spoke with someone from the club at the GF on sat, they confirmed Sherman is at the top of our list(thought it was just about done). we do want walker but not likely to happen as carlton want to much. He also said we are interest in Ed Barlow in a big way, was at the club last week doing tests and they were blown away by engine.

Please no, this guy is a major spud.

[LostDoggy]

Tillers manager was just on SEN and he said that he has asked to be traded.

Traded? I expected him to get Delisted

[LostDoggy]

Traded? I expected him to get Delisted

Yeah same here, maybe Adelaide/Port will use up one of their last picks on him? :confused:

[Greystache]

Traded? I expected him to get Delisted

Jump before you're pushed perhaps?

[G-Mo77]

Tillers manager was just on SEN and he said that he has asked to be traded.

I hope we can get something to him. Someone quickly deploy copies of the 2008 Semi Final to the other clubs!

[Topdog]

Pask (his manager) said a few teams had enquired about him. I could see Sydney possibly being interested.

[G-Mo77]

Pickering was just on the radio and said that Sherman has said that the Bulldogs are his preferred club. Said the comp pick would get the deal done.

[Sockeye Salmon]

GC maybe? Scott Clayton is very loyal to the guys he drafted. He thinks they will all come good eventually.

[G-Mo77]

GC maybe? Scott Clayton is very loyal to the guys he drafted. He thinks they will all come good eventually.

If we can get anything for Tiller I'd be very happy.

[chef]

Pickering was just on the radio and said that Sherman has said that the Bulldogs are his preferred club. Said the comp pick would get the deal done.

Get it done Bulldogs.

[Twodogs]

GC maybe? Scott Clayton is very loyal to the guys he drafted. He thinks they will all come good eventually.


So it would basically be Harbrow out and Sherman in. I hate the fact we lost Harbrow but getting Sherman in would lessen the blow.

[The Pie Man]

Get it done Bulldogs.

Second that

[Twodogs]

He also said we are interest in Ed Barlow in a big way, was at the club last week doing tests and they were blown away by engine.


They must be confusing him with Michael Barlow.

[Grantysghost]

Yep get it done - i would usually hate trading picks for contentiously credentialed players from other clubs, however with the Wallis, Libba pick ups it lessens the impact and Sherman's pace will be an assett if he can get some consistency into his game.

[Greystache]

Pickering was just on the radio and said that Sherman has said that the Bulldogs are his preferred club. Said the comp pick would get the deal done.

Salary situation would have to be the other barrier to overcome.

[Twodogs]

I had a look at Sherman's bio on the Lions site;



• He is a second cousin of Bears legend Roger Merrett, a third cousin to Australian cricket skipper Ricky Ponting and first cousin of ex-Tasmanian wicket-keeper Richard Soule.

I know that Tasmanians like to keep it in the family but that's ridiculous!

[Bulldog Revolution]

I had a look at Sherman's bio on the Lions site;

I know that Tasmanians like to keep it in the family but that's ridiculous!

yep, I saw that the other day, hillarious stuff

[The Adelaide Connection]

Anyone have any love for Ryan Gamble? Name has been thrown around a bit. In the past he has been reasonable IMO but has struggled to get a game this year. What has his VFL form been like?

[chef]

Dogs push for Sherman; Davis in trade mix

Justin Sherman wants to move to the Western Bulldogs

BRISBANE Lions speedster Justin Sherman has attracted interest from a number of clubs including the Western Bulldogs, Richmond, Sydney Swans and Melbourne, his manager Liam Pickering says.

But Pickering has confirmed that the 23-year-old, who has played 114 games since making his debut in 2005, wants to be traded to the Bulldogs.

"We've told Brisbane that he wants to get to the Bulldogs if possible," Pickering said on Trade Week Radio on afl.com.au on Tuesday afternoon.

"The Dogs are pretty confident they'll get him, they're pretty keen to get him, but Brisbane obviously have got to be satisfied by the deal for him to get there."

Representatives from the Bulldogs and Lions met at Etihad Stadium on the opening day of trade week to discuss a possible deal to enable Sherman to move south.

"I'm pretty confident the Dogs will give up the compensation pick they got for losing Harbrow [to Gold Coast], which I think will fall in at about 29, if they were to use it this year," Pickering added.

"I think that's probably fair, but it's a matter of whether Brisbane want a little more."

If the Bulldogs can't satisfy the Lions, Sherman could be targeted by a number of other clubs.

"He's certainly caused some interest," Pickering said.

"The three clubs that have been pretty keen are Richmond, the Bulldogs and Sydney. Melbourne have also shown some interest in him.

"He's that sort of player, I guess. He's got pace and can add that to a midfield or forward line.

"But Brisbane have got be prepared to trade him. That's what it comes back to, because his contract has got another couple of years to run."

Meanwhile, another of Pickering's clients, Collingwood forward Leon Davis, also could be on the move.

"He's not so much on the market, as he's contracted for another year," Pickering said.

"I'm not sure what's going to come out of today's meetings, but if Collingwood get some interest from one of the Western Australian clubs - Fremantle or West Coast - then he'd certainly consider it, as that's where his family is.

"Probably the South Australian clubs might also be in the market a little bit as that's where his girl comes from.

"I think he'd like to get around his family a little more, but again it's not going to be an easy one as he's 29, so it's got to be the right fit."

Follow our complete coverage of the 2010 AFL exchange period from October 5-11. No trades are official until paperwork has been accepted by the AFL and formally recognised after 2pm on Monday, October 11.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/103755/default.aspx

[Sockeye Salmon]

First Walker, now Sherman.

It wasn't that long ago when even duds like Ben Holland and Jade Rawlings refused to come to us.

[chef]

First Walker, now Sherman.

It wasn't that long ago when even duds like Ben Holland and Jade Rawlings refused to come to us.

It's a nice change:).

[Greystache]

First Walker, now Sherman.

It wasn't that long ago when even duds like Ben Holland and Jade Rawlings refused to come to us.

Don't forget Hall and Aker before him too.

[LostDoggy]

Walker, Sherman Djekkura In
Everitt, Harbrow Pick, Late Pick Out

I'd be happy to see that from trade week. Although I think Calrton will want more than that.

[BulldogBelle]

What are everyones thoughts on using the Harbrow compensation pick directly on Sherman?

If we were to also get Walker the only player that I imagine Carlton would value would be Everitt, and I see Andrejs being of far more value that Walker (possible 3 way deal or a rearrangement of picks if we move someone else on).

Djerkerra for a 5th round pick?

Veszpremi for Hill (via a 3 way trade involving the Eagles)?

Puopolo (via Rookie draft or a late pick)?

I still think we would need an outside, gut running wingman if we bring the above players to the club...not someone who we are going to have to sell the farm for....

[always right]

Why do I think this Sherman trade is going to end badly for us?:(

....but if we are so determined to get him, I would have thought a swap for Everitt is a fairer trade than losing our Harbrow pick.

[Mantis]

I still think we would need an outside, gut running wingman if we bring the above players to the club

Who is on top of the wish list?

[always right]

I hear Eagleton is free.

[stefoid]

I still think we would need an outside, gut running wingman if we bring the above players to the club...not someone who we are going to have to sell the farm for....

Isnt that supposed to be DJ and/or Walker?

Vezpremi the small forward.

Sherman also forward/mid.

[Doc26]

Why do I think this Sherman trade is going to end badly for us?:(

Seven losing prelims. will do that to you :rolleyes:

[Topdog]

If we were to also get Walker the only player that I imagine Carlton would value would be Everitt, and I see Andrejs being of far more value that Walker (possible 3 way deal or a rearrangement of picks if we move someone else on).
.

You are overrating Andrejs greatly.

[Ozza]

What are everyones thoughts on using the Harbrow compensation pick directly on Sherman?

If we were to also get Walker the only player that I imagine Carlton would value would be Everitt, and I see Andrejs being of far more value that Walker (possible 3 way deal or a rearrangement of picks if we move someone else on).

Djerkerra for a 5th round pick?

Veszpremi for Hill (via a 3 way trade involving the Eagles)?

Puopolo (via Rookie draft or a late pick)?

I still think we would need an outside, gut running wingman if we bring the above players to the club...not someone who we are going to have to sell the farm for....

I would have thought Walker is worth more than Everitt on the open market. We get a bit seduced by the potential of Everitt - and the last 2 years at trade time he suddenly becomes a key/required player for us - despite not showing a great deal at AFL level.

Although there is the fear that Everitt will go on and thrive elsewhere, we may just have to except that he isn't going to reach his potential at the bulldogs. I'd love to be proven wrong about Everitt - but I can't see him becoming the player we hoped he'd be.

A change of scenery may be best for both players (Walker and Andrejs) - but I think we will have to somehow sweeten the deal more rather than a straight swap.

[Bulldog Joe]

I would have thought Walker is worth more than Everitt on the open market. We get a bit seduced by the potential of Everitt - and the last 2 years at trade time he suddenly becomes a key/required player for us - despite not showing a great deal at AFL level.

Although there is the fear that Everitt will go on and thrive elsewhere, we may just have to except that he isn't going to reach his potential at the bulldogs. I'd love to be proven wrong about Everitt - but I can't see him becoming the player we hoped he'd be.

A change of scenery may be best for both players (Walker and Andrejs) - but I think we will have to somehow sweeten the deal more rather than a straight swap.

That seems a pretty sound appraisal.

[1eyedog]

I would have thought Walker is worth more than Everitt on the open market. We get a bit seduced by the potential of Everitt - and the last 2 years at trade time he suddenly becomes a key/required player for us - despite not showing a great deal at AFL level.

Although there is the fear that Everitt will go on and thrive elsewhere, we may just have to except that he isn't going to reach his potential at the bulldogs. I'd love to be proven wrong about Everitt - but I can't see him becoming the player we hoped he'd be.

A change of scenery may be best for both players (Walker and Andrejs) - but I think we will have to somehow sweeten the deal more rather than a straight swap.

I agree. because he is 6'4, athletic and went at no. 11 we seem to have developed an over-inflated opinion of him.

I don't really think he's shown us anything on the field, despite a number of opportunities.

[DOG GOD]

Trade week radio reporting that Veszpremi has nominated dogs as preferred club. Fantasia confident of getting both deals done. (sherman and Vpremi)

[1eyedog]

Trade week radio reporting that Veszpremi has nominated dogs as preferred club. Fantasia confident of getting both deals done. (sherman and Vpremi)

Everyone wants on to the bandwagon, if we were a team outside the 8 I doubt there would be any interest in us.

[Mantis]

Trade week radio reporting that Veszpremi has nominated dogs as preferred club. Fantasia confident of getting both deals done. (sherman and Vpremi)

It's getting a little out of hand now. :)

[comrade]

Why would any player want to nominate us? Aren't we supposed to be on the slippery slope back to the bottom?

Oh, wait...this isn't BigFooty.

[Greystache]

Trade week radio reporting that Veszpremi has nominated dogs as preferred club. Fantasia confident of getting both deals done. (sherman and Vpremi)

I can't see us being able to get all 3 of Vezpremi, Walker, and Sherman, we will struggle to satisfy the others clubs demands.

We might be able to do:

Sharman- Harbrow pick
Walker or Vezpremi- Everitt
But I doubt a combination of Hill/Stack/another disposable fringe player & a late draft pick will satisfy for the third player.

Do we have any other players that might carry trade value we would consider trading?

[jazzadogs]

I can't see us being able to get all 3 of Vezpremi, Walker, and Sherman, we will struggle to satisfy the others clubs demands.

We might be able to do:

Sharman- Harbrow pick
Walker or Vezpremi- Everitt
But I doubt a combination of Hill/Stack/another disposable fringe player & a late draft pick will satisfy for the third player.

Do we have any other players that might carry trade value we would consider trading?
Hill is a lot better than a fringe player, Eade just has issues (rightly so) with his defensive pressure. In the right side, Josh could be an extremely handy forward. I'd almost think that he has more currency than Everitt if we're basing it purely on the standard of their games at AFL level.

I also wouldn't think that Veszpremi is equal to Everitt.

[DOG GOD]

I can't see us being able to get all 3 of Vezpremi, Walker, and Sherman, we will struggle to satisfy the others clubs demands.

We might be able to do:

Sharman- Harbrow pick
Walker or Vezpremi- Everitt
But I doubt a combination of Hill/Stack/another disposable fringe player & a late draft pick will satisfy for the third player.

Do we have any other players that might carry trade value we would consider trading?

I agree that the harbrow pick will get the Sherman deal over the line
Everitt will be involved with Vpremi with maybe some swap of picks
Hill for a 3rd rounder
Stack for a 4th rounder
Djkerra for a 4th - 5th rounder

[Greystache]

Hill is a lot better than a fringe player, Eade just has issues (rightly so) with his defensive pressure. In the right side, Josh could be an extremely handy forward. I'd almost think that he has more currency than Everitt if we're basing it purely on the standard of their games at AFL level.

I also wouldn't think that Veszpremi is equal to Everitt.

He played 12 games this year, but anyway. That's why it would be a combination Hill and Stack/another fringe player. Personally I can't see Carlton or Sydney going for it.

Everitt is rated far more highly by some Bulldog supporters on this board than in the broader community. Outside of his first few games which were more than 3 years ago now he has done almost nothing at AFL level.

[Sedat]

Do we have any other players that might carry trade value we would consider trading?
You'd think Minson would have some currency with the right club.

[Greystache]

You'd think Minson would have some currency with the right club.

Yeah, but it would need to involve a 3rd party you'd think, based on the line of thinking we're still looking at ways we can secure the players in question. Sydney and Carlton are pretty sorted for ruckmen

[dogman]

I can't see us being able to get all 3 of Vezpremi, Walker, and Sherman, we will struggle to satisfy the others clubs demands.

We might be able to do:

Sharman- Harbrow pick
Walker or Vezpremi- Everitt
But I doubt a combination of Hill/Stack/another disposable fringe player & a late draft pick will satisfy for the third player.

Do we have any other players that might carry trade value we would consider trading?

Haven't you heard Tiller wants out too. Should get something decent for him to get the deal done now:rolleyes:

[Greystache]

I agree that the harbrow pick will get the Sherman deal over the line
Everitt will be involved with Vpremi with maybe some swap of picks
Hill for a 3rd rounder
Stack for a 4th rounder
Djkerra for a 4th - 5th rounder

So we won't be able to get Walker as well then you think?

[chef]

I can't see us being able to get all 3 of Vezpremi, Walker, and Sherman, we will struggle to satisfy the others clubs demands.

We might be able to do:

Sharman- Harbrow pick
Walker or Vezpremi- Everitt
But I doubt a combination of Hill/Stack/another disposable fringe player & a late draft pick will satisfy for the third player.

Do we have any other players that might carry trade value we would consider trading?

Me neither, but if we end up with three of Djerrkura, Walker, Sherman and Veszpremi I will be very happy.

[Greystache]

Haven't you heard Tiller wants out too. Should get something decent for him to get the deal done now:rolleyes:

Yeah package him with Callan, and Boumann and we should be able to get Patrick Dangerfield... Oh wait this isn't the Collingwood Big Footy board. ;)

[anfo27]

Do we have any other players that might carry trade value we would consider trading?

Minson, Gia, Gilbee, Hahn, Boyd or Cross, Hargrave & Addison.

[Greystache]

Me neither, but if we end up with three of Djerrkura, Walker, Sherman and Veszpremi I will be very happy.

I can't see us missing out of Djerrkura unless Geelong decide they want to play hard ball on the late draft pick, I don't see why they would.

Which leaves us more likely to get 2 of the other 3 I suppose.

[The Adelaide Connection]

Some quotes coming in late off the trade talk site:

AFL_LHolmesby: Player manager Ricky Nixon says David Hale, Andrejs Everitt and Richard Tambling should all find new clubs as soon as tomorrow

AFL_JasonPhelan: Longmire confirmed Veszpremi wants trade to Melbourne club with Dogs most likely. Just never found his feet in Sydney.

[jazzadogs]

He played 12 games this year, but anyway. That's why it would be a combination Hill and Stack/another fringe player. Personally I can't see Carlton or Sydney going for it.

Everitt is rated far more highly by some Bulldog supporters on this board than in the broader community. Outside of his first few games which were more than 3 years ago now he has done almost nothing at AFL level.
I was meaning that he has the skills and general ability to be a lot more than a fringe player. He only played 12 games at the Dogs this year because Eade had issues with his tackling and pressure.

I think that in his AFL career he has shown more ability to influence a game than Everitt, and agree that Everitt is rated too highly on this board. But I think we could do a better deal with Everitt, than a straight swap for Veszpremi.

He seems fairly injury prone, which has affected his past few seasons, but also had form troubles this year. Everitt has not 'dominated' a game lately, but his start to this season was serviceable.

I just don't really want to get rid of Everitt...I understand the need to take risks, but I guess I'm still a bit too cautious.

[LostDoggy]

Minson, Gia, Gilbee, Hahn, Boyd or Cross, Hargrave & Addison.

HA! Take out all of them bar Minson and you might be headed in the right direction. :rolleyes:

[chef]

I can't see us missing out of Djerrkura unless Geelong decide they want to play hard ball on the late draft pick, I don't see why they would.

Which leaves us more likely to get 2 of the other 3 I suppose.

Yep, and if Carlton are true to form we won't be able to afford Walker:( once we have secured Sherman.

[DOG GOD]

So we won't be able to get Walker as well then you think?



cant see it with Carltons lack of interest in Everitt. I think Sherman, Vpremi and Dkerra will be the 3 we get.

Sherman - harbrow pick
Vpremi - everitt and maybe a change of picks
Dkerra - 4th rounder

Due to our f/s picks i think we will try to get picks only for Hill and Stack (3rd and 4th rounders)

[anfo27]

HA! Take out all of them bar Minson and you might be headed in the right direction. :rolleyes:

right because these players really stood up for us when we needed them. We will never get anywhere if the club trade players that barely played. What did Everitt, Hill & Tiller do in the finals? about as much as the names i mentioned.
Trade one or two of them while they still have some value.
You have to be brave sometimes. the pies traded Tarrant, the hawks traded Thompson & Hay.

[Greystache]

cant see it with Carltons lack of interest in Everitt. I think Sherman, Vpremi and Dkerra will be the 3 we get.

Sherman - harbrow pick
Vpremi - everitt and maybe a change of picks
Dkerra - 4th rounder

Due to our f/s picks i think we will try to get picks only for Hill and Stack (3rd and 4th rounders)

Yep agreed. Unless another trade comes out of the blue of course.

[DOG GOD]

Trade week radio update:

Everitt for Vpremi straight swap pretty much over the line.

[anfo27]

Trade week radio update:

Everitt for Vpremi straight swap pretty much over the line.

if thats the case then i'm not happy with that, we got bent over on that one.

[DOG GOD]

if thats the case then i'm not happy with that, we got bent over on that one.

Both were first round selections, so a straight swap indicates that might be around the mark. There maybe some draft picks swapped as well though.

The dogs obviously see Vpremi as a player we need of that ilk, where as they dont have a plan for Everitt.

[lemmon]

if thats the case then i'm not happy with that, we got bent over on that one.

Agree not happy with that, would expect a pick from Sydney as well even if its just pair of steak knives.

[jazzadogs]

Agree not happy with that, would expect a pick from Sydney as well even if its just pair of steak knives.
Yep, Veszpremi's injury troubles (groin issues are never positive) concern me. Seems a more than talented guy, from the limited games I have seen of him, and his first round pick would concur.

If it happens, sad to see Everitt go. I truly expect him to come on in leaps and bounds at the Swans (or at least, he would have under Roos. Wait and see on Longmire.)

[stefoid]

Yeah, but with Sydeny going hard for Sherman and having a lower pick, maybe the deal is Everitt + you back off sherman