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comrade
10-11-2008, 10:30 PM
Evening all,

Just an enquiry; does anyone have a copy of Every Dog Has Its Day, the video chronicling the 89 fightback? I'd happily pay for a copy and throw in postage as well? PM me if anyone can help out.

Thanks gang.

LostDoggy
11-11-2008, 11:56 AM
Nope..

I have Year Of The Dog though on dvd ;)

LostDoggy
11-11-2008, 06:13 PM
Evening all,

Just an enquiry; does anyone have a copy of Every Dog Has Its Day, the video chronicling the 89 fightback? I'd happily pay for a copy and throw in postage as well? PM me if anyone can help out.

Thanks gang.

Likewise - it would be good to get a copy.

Drunken Bum
11-11-2008, 10:58 PM
Evening all,

Just an enquiry; does anyone have a copy of Every Dog Has Its Day, the video chronicling the 89 fightback? I'd happily pay for a copy and throw in postage as well? PM me if anyone can help out.

Thanks gang.

can count me in on that too if one pops up

The Coon Dog
12-11-2008, 03:16 AM
http://i529.photobucket.com/albums/dd340/TheCoonDog/scan.jpg

Good & bad news.

a) I have the video.

b) I only have one video player & can't copy it.

Suggestions???

LostDoggy
12-11-2008, 09:32 AM
Hmm - I am not a computer geek by any means. But I do know there is a software (which we have)which connects the video to the computer, runs the tape and gets burnt as a DVD. I will ask the other half for more info if you are interested.

Scraggers
12-11-2008, 10:49 AM
Hmm - I am not a computer geek by any means. But I do know there is a software (which we have)which connects the video to the computer, runs the tape and gets burnt as a DVD. I will ask the other half for more info if you are interested.

There is ... but you need an adapter to take the RCA plugs (around about $125) and an average video card ... with this adapter and video card you can turn any video into a DVD or VCD.

OR

If you have an exceptional video card in your PC it should have a place for RCA plugs therfore negating the need for the adapter.

OR

If you have a DVD recorder in your home entertainment unit you can link you video player to it and record the DVD that way.

OR

If you have a digital video camera, you can plug it in to the video, record the tape onto the camera, then download it on to your computer and then burn it to DVD


By the way, I would love a copy too !!!:D

The Coon Dog
12-11-2008, 11:04 AM
My video & computer are nowhere near each other & I have no idea what the above all meant. Sorry, not a computer geek.

Twodogs
12-11-2008, 11:25 AM
My video & computer are nowhere near each other & I have no idea what the above all meant. Sorry, not a computer geek.




I think my dear old mum-who certainly isnt a computer geek-knows how to do the third option


If you have a DVD recorder in your home entertainment unit you can link you video player to it and record the DVD that way.



I'll ask her the next time I see her, might not be for a while though because they have visitors from OS at the moment. And IIRC we arent actually speaking to one another ATM either-but that's OK it happens all the time.

LostDoggy
12-11-2008, 11:30 AM
My video & computer are nowhere near each other & I have no idea what the above all meant. Sorry, not a computer geek.

there is a company in the city that records to dvd from video....in Abeckett st between Queen and Elizabeth....:cool:

Max469
12-11-2008, 12:12 PM
I would love a copy too please.

Just let me know the cost.

Thanks

hujsh
12-11-2008, 12:33 PM
Should figure out how to make it a torrent for all the dogs fans out there:)

LostDoggy
12-11-2008, 02:35 PM
there is a company in the city that records to dvd from video....in Abeckett st between Queen and Elizabeth....:cool:

I work on Collins Street In between Queen and Elizabeth I can see how far it is from work and get a price when i get a chance and I will let you woofers know

aker39
12-11-2008, 02:41 PM
It's called City Video Duplication.

They charge $44 to convert a 2 hour VHS to DVD, and then $11 for each additional DVD.

bornadog
12-11-2008, 03:00 PM
It's called City Video Duplication.

They charge $44 to convert a 2 hour VHS to DVD, and then $11 for each additional DVD.

If some one is going to pay the $44, I would be happy to get a copy at $11. Or if we get enough punters, and TCD is willing to go down there, we could divide the total cost by the number of interested parties.

aker39
12-11-2008, 03:29 PM
I've actually found a place that will do it for $40, plus $5 per copy.

If you got 10 people interested, that would be $9 each.

Scraggers
12-11-2008, 04:13 PM
I think you will need to be careful with copyright laws etc ... they may not do it

If TCD or someone else with a copy of the video is willing to trust me (and the postal system) I can convert it for free and charge $7.50 per copy including case and postage

Or possibly there is someone in Melbourne with the facilities to do this ?

The Coon Dog
12-11-2008, 04:27 PM
I think you will need to be careful with copyright laws etc ... they may not do it

If TCD or someone else with a copy of the video is willing to trust me (and the postal system) I can convert it for free and charge $7.50 per copy including case and postage

Or possibly there is someone in Melbourne with the facilities to do this ?
Thanks Scraggers,

I found a geekazoid I thought might be able to do it & he only lives around the corner; The Dogs Bollocks.

I'll drop it off to him to do & he can run off the required number of copies. When I get back from hols (29 Nov) I'll follow up with those who want copies.

aker39
12-11-2008, 04:46 PM
I'll have a copy TCD.

Just let me know what I owe you.

Thanks

bornadog
12-11-2008, 07:22 PM
Thanks Scraggers,

I found a geekazoid I thought might be able to do it & he only lives around the corner; The Dogs Bollocks.

I'll drop it off to him to do & he can run off the required number of copies. When I get back from hols (29 Nov) I'll follow up with those who want copies.

Count me in.

Where are you off to? Overseas you mentioned in another post?

Sockeye Salmon
12-11-2008, 07:44 PM
Yum yum.

Yes please.

The Coon Dog
12-11-2008, 08:09 PM
Count me in.

Where are you off to? Overseas you mentioned in another post?

A cruise to the South Pacific on the Pacific Dawn.

LostDoggy
12-11-2008, 09:12 PM
Let me know how much Coon Dog.

Drunken Bum
12-11-2008, 09:47 PM
enjoy your holiday TCD and when you get back let me know how much and put me down for 1 too

The Coon Dog
12-11-2008, 09:59 PM
I dropped the video off to The Dogs Bollocks earlier on & he'll kindly run off copies & I'll post them when I get back.

I reckon $5 a copy, which should ensure we aren't out of pocket.

If that's OK just let me know in this thread..

Here is the list so far, which I'll add to:

comrade
dogs_r_barking
Drunken Bum
Scraggers
Max469 x 3
aker39
bornadog
Sockeye Salmon
alexxx
jaxson42
Griffen#16
craigsahibee
dadsgirl16 x 2
bulldog
The Bow-Man
dogs den mum
Raw Toast
The Underdog
Wynd Me Up

When I return I'll PM those who want a copy to get addresses.

Max469
12-11-2008, 10:32 PM
Thank you TCD

Enjoy your holiday.

comrade
12-11-2008, 11:08 PM
Thanks TCD, enjoy your hols.

hujsh
12-11-2008, 11:32 PM
A cruise to the South Pacific on the Pacific Dawn.

Have a good time.

bornadog
13-11-2008, 10:34 AM
A cruise to the South Pacific on the Pacific Dawn.

Second honeymoon;)

Enjoy and come back relaxed.

LostDoggy
13-11-2008, 11:42 AM
Add me to the list please TCD ;)

LostDoggy
13-11-2008, 10:30 PM
Can I have one too please TCD. :)

Max469
13-11-2008, 10:41 PM
Can I be a pain and get 3 copies?

Can't think of a better Christmas stocking filler.

thanks

Go_Dogs
14-11-2008, 10:33 AM
I'll grab a copy too.

How do you propose we get the money to you TCD, will it simply be a matter of sending cash and a return-envelope?

craigsahibee
14-11-2008, 10:40 AM
Worth a look I reckon. Put me down for a copy to.

Thanks TCD

The Coon Dog
14-11-2008, 11:21 AM
I'll grab a copy too.

How do you propose we get the money to you TCD, will it simply be a matter of sending cash and a return-envelope?


I'll wait until I get back & then worry about it then. It's not going to be a major drama, that's for sure.

dadsgirl16
14-11-2008, 12:54 PM
Can I be put down for 2 copies too pleeze? Thanks a mill and have a great holiday

bulldog
14-11-2008, 05:47 PM
Could i please have one too

The Bow-Man
15-11-2008, 01:05 AM
Just thought i'd let you know that i want a copy too before u go on ure cruise!
i went on the pacific sun two years ago and it was good fun, be sure to make the most out of each place u stop at i reckon!

dogs den mum
19-11-2008, 12:11 AM
I would love a copy too please. It was watching "Year of The Dogs" that converted me to a footy tragic after hating the game for 40 odd years, so I'm sure this one will get my heart swelling with pride. I'm now a Bulldog For Life and have read lots of accounts of the Fightback but would be great to see the story in full.
Hope you enjoy your holiday...sounds like you are going to be busy when you get back!!

Sockeye Salmon
19-11-2008, 12:55 AM
Baz,

I suggest you work out the number of copies required and the total cost per copy, then double it.

Otherwise you're going to leave yourself very vulnerable when people forgot they wanted one or it got too hard to sort out the money.

Any cash left over keep as travelling expenses.

comrade
19-11-2008, 09:43 AM
Baz,

I suggest you work out the number of copies required and the total cost per copy, then double it.

Otherwise you're going to leave yourself very vulnerable when people forgot they wanted one or it got too hard to sort out the money.

Any cash left over keep as travelling expenses.

I agree.

Raw Toast
19-11-2008, 10:50 AM
I'd love one to TCD.

Enjoy the cruise.

The Underdog
19-11-2008, 11:25 AM
I'll be in for a copy too. Never seen it so it'd be interesting to watch.

LostDoggy
21-11-2008, 07:03 PM
I would love a copy too.

BulldogBelle
23-11-2008, 11:25 AM
Just to let everyone know l have converted 'Every Dog Has its Day' to DVD.

Please rember that as it was video first it will only have the quality of a video. There is some minor snow/static here and there.

l will start running some copies so we have a stockpile ready to do.

If anyone is desperate to get a copy early (PICK UP ONLY - WERRIBEE) let me know.

LostDoggy
23-11-2008, 12:29 PM
Just to let everyone know l have converted 'Every Dog Has its Day' to DVD.

Please rember that as it was video first it will only have the quality of a video. There is some minor snow/static here and there.

l will start running some copies so we have a stockpile ready to do.

If anyone is desperate to get a copy early (PICK UP ONLY - WERRIBEE) let me know.

Thanks for taking the time to do this Dogs Bullocks - make it worth your while;)

The Coon Dog
02-12-2008, 08:55 PM
I have spoke with 'The Dogs Bollocks' who has done most of the copying. He's bringing them over shortly & I'll get an idea of postage from the Post Office.

We tried to work out just what the cost was & both of us don't mind running around a bit & thought we may charge $5 a copy plus postage, with the $5 going to 'The Bulldogs Backyard Program' & hopefully helping out a few kids.

Let me know by PM if there's a problem please.

Here is the list of those who wanted a copy.

comrade
dogs_r_barking
Drunken Bum
Scraggers
Max469 x 3
aker39
bornadog
Sockeye Salmon
alexxx
jaxon42
Griffen#16
craigsahibee
dadsgirl16 x 2
bulldog
The Bow-Man
dogs den mum
Raw Toast
The Underdog
Wynd Me Up

LostDoggy
02-12-2008, 10:20 PM
Great idea Coon dog - let me know when you are ready to process orders:)

LostDoggy
03-12-2008, 09:44 AM
Thanks for that TCD and The Dogs Bollocks for your efforts on this one.

craigsahibee
03-12-2008, 10:16 AM
Well Done Guys.

Great idea re the Bulldogs Backyard Program.

Let me know what I have to do to get the cash to you.

Cheers

Scraggers
03-12-2008, 11:03 AM
Thanks guys ... let me know when (and where) to send.

Will a money order be alright ?

Cyberdoggie
03-12-2008, 02:34 PM
I think my dear old mum-who certainly isnt a computer geek-knows how to do the third option





I'll ask her the next time I see her, might not be for a while though because they have visitors from OS at the moment. And IIRC we arent actually speaking to one another ATM either-but that's OK it happens all the time.

hahaha, that is so embarrasing, how does you dear old mum know more about technology than her son.


but seriously, if you try it i think the quality will be pretty bad.
Best option is below, take it to a shop that does conversions and get them to put it on a dvd for you.

If you plan to start converting your vhs to dvd's in the future (i believe you have a large collection) then you may want to invest in the computer upgrade option. But you will want to do your research first, then go buy the parts and get a geek to help you set it up. If you wanted to do it cheap you need to go to msy or computerparts land.

Good luck.

btw i'll take a copy of year of the dogs if it's on blu-ray ;)
that would be cool, although i'd expect an alternate ending in the extras. Preferably one where we win the premiership. I always thought after watching the YOD that they should of followed it up the following year. YOD part 2 (1997) it would be depressing at the end but at least they would win some games.

bulldog
03-12-2008, 05:32 PM
Thanks for that let me know when you have them cant wait to watch it should be good

Go_Dogs
03-12-2008, 06:46 PM
Love your idea TCD.

For those of us interstate, is the best option most likely going to be sending cash and a self-addressed and stamped envelope to you?

Max469
03-12-2008, 06:47 PM
Thanks for so much time and effort.

Great idea for the Bulldogs Backyard.

Hope you had a great holiday TCD

The Coon Dog
03-12-2008, 08:50 PM
I didn't get to the Post Office today so I don't know the postage costs.

Is sending cash in the mail safe? Fine by me I suppose, so is crediting my bank account too either by online banking or through a branch.

LostDoggy
03-12-2008, 09:19 PM
Online banking please CD.

Sockeye Salmon
03-12-2008, 09:38 PM
Love your idea TCD.

For those of us interstate, is the best option most likely going to be sending cash and a self-addressed and stamped envelope to you?

Unfortunately sending cash (especially just before Christmas is a sure-fire way of adding to the Aussie Posts Christmas bonus fund.

The machines at AP pick up on the metalic strip and let everyone know there's cash inside - you can guess what happens from there.

Go_Dogs
04-12-2008, 09:00 AM
Unfortunately sending cash (especially just before Christmas is a sure-fire way of adding to the Aussie Posts Christmas bonus fund.

The machines at AP pick up on the metalic strip and let everyone know there's cash inside - you can guess what happens from there.

Fair point.

Direct debit it is.

dadsgirl16
04-12-2008, 11:47 AM
thanks for all that running around guys, muchly appreciated.
Let us know how best to pay/collect,Bulldog Backyard a great idea too.

bornadog
04-12-2008, 01:30 PM
With all the interest in this video, why doesn't the Bulldog Shop do something and produce a DVD? Surely it would be a big seller?

dogs den mum
07-12-2008, 09:54 PM
Thanks for all your work guys and I agree it's a great idea to support the Bulldog Backyard program. I am interstate(TAS) and can send a cheque to cover DVD plus postage. Just let us know when you are ready and where to send the money.

The Coon Dog
08-12-2008, 05:07 PM
I am in the midst of PMing everyone, with details of costs & my Bank details.

When I receive a PM with name & address I'll post out copies.

The Coon Dog
09-12-2008, 11:48 AM
To:

dogs_r_barking, Drunken Bum, Scraggers, Max469, Griffen#16, The Bow-Man & dogs den mum.

I posted your DVD's on my way to work this morning, so you should have them in a few days time.

Go_Dogs
09-12-2008, 03:24 PM
Thanks very much TCD. Have transferred $ to your account.

dogs den mum
10-12-2008, 01:47 AM
Thanks TCD and also Dogs Bollocks for your work. Payment coming. Can't wait to see the DVD; will help me get over my off-season footy withdrawal symptoms!

The Coon Dog
11-12-2008, 06:53 AM
Thanks to those who have deposited money into my account. Much appreciated.

I have a deposit in the name of HM Lemmon, but I don't know who it is. Can you please PM me.

LostDoggy
11-12-2008, 12:27 PM
Thanks again TCD and also a big thanks to the Dogs Bollocks. Well done Guys.

Can't wait to watch it again now. :)

Max469
11-12-2008, 06:45 PM
Thanks TCD it was great to watch and remember

The Coon Dog
11-12-2008, 09:14 PM
Thanks TCD it was great to watch and remember

Very important that people don't forget. Hope those who received their copy enjoyed it.

LostDoggy
11-12-2008, 10:04 PM
Hi Coon Dog received your dvd today, a big thank you.

bornadog
12-12-2008, 12:13 AM
Very important that people don't forget. Hope those who received their copy enjoyed it.

Yes thank you to you and Dogs Bollocks, it was great watching it.

Sockeye Salmon
12-12-2008, 01:08 AM
Thanks for that, guys.

I wish they had put the names of the people speaking on screen so you knew who was saying what. Nick Columb was easy to pick with his stupid hair but the AFL and Fitzroy people I had no idea who was who (except for Oakley). I assume the bloke with Oakley and Columb at the start was Leon Weigard?

There is also a player with a mullett to kill for who says he had offers from 4 other clubs but stayed for less money. I'm sure I should have recognised him but I simply don't. I thought maybe Adrian Campbell but I couldn't imagine him getting any offers from other clubs at all!

LostDoggy
12-12-2008, 09:23 AM
Thanks for that, guys.

...There is also a player with a mullett to kill for who says he had offers from 4 other clubs but stayed for less money. I'm sure I should have recognised him but I simply don't. I thought maybe Adrian Campbell but I couldn't imagine him getting any offers from other clubs at all!

Brian Royal

Sockeye Salmon
12-12-2008, 09:32 AM
Brian Royal

The mullett looked like it belonged to Choco but the rest of the head didn't?

craigsahibee
12-12-2008, 09:59 AM
Received mine in the post yesterday. Thanks TCD and DB.

Stirring stuff 20 years on.

Love the stonewash jeans tucked into the white socks.

Would have been a competitive team, but not MY TEAM

aker39
12-12-2008, 10:34 AM
Thanks to both of you for putting this together.

Looking forward to sitting down on the weekend and taking a look.

Scraggers
12-12-2008, 11:01 AM
Thanks TCD and DB ... received mine yesterday :)

Had to watch it three times !!!

First time it brought back so many emotions, I cried like a baby

Second time, I was reliving most of the play and players ... this was by far my most favorite era of the Bulldogs (I used to work with Ted Whitten at Adidas as well ... this also brought back great memories)

Third time I was looking for myself in the crowd ... I'm sure I saw myself there as a spotty 19 year old kid


Can't wait to watch it again tonight :)

LostDoggy
12-12-2008, 10:09 PM
Very important that people don't forget. Hope those who received their copy enjoyed it.

True dat TCD, true dat. :)

We are still on the razors edge almost 20 years on. :confused:

comrade
12-12-2008, 10:20 PM
The Pieman gets a massive serve from a Doggies fan!

Thanks TCD and The Dogs Bollocks. Much appreciated.

Sockeye Salmon
12-12-2008, 11:00 PM
The Pieman gets a massive serve from a Doggies fan!



It was a pretty stupid thing for Beasley to say. I'd have given him a spray as well.

comrade
12-12-2008, 11:07 PM
It was a pretty stupid thing for Beasley to say. I'd have given him a spray as well.

Too right. Beasley had his business cap on, couldn't see past the dollar signs perhaps.

The Coon Dog
13-12-2008, 04:01 PM
Just wish to thank everyone who credited my account with money over the past few days.

As a result I was able to purchase 2 'Bulldog Backyard' memberships this morning.

Thank you for helping to get some kids along.

LostDoggy
13-12-2008, 04:09 PM
Great to hear the money is going to a good cause

Good work TCD

The Coon Dog
13-12-2008, 04:33 PM
Great to hear the money is going to a good cause

Good work TCD

Alexxx, I sent you a PM about the DVD too.

BulldogBelle
13-12-2008, 04:44 PM
Glad to see everyone enjoying the DVD.

If anyone has other Dogs videos they want converted to DVD to share with others let me know after Xmas.

bornadog
15-12-2008, 01:41 PM
Glad to see everyone enjoying the DVD.

If anyone has other Dogs videos they want converted to DVD to share with others let me know after Xmas.

I have many tapes from games since 1985, so would be happy to have them converted and shared if there is interest.

GVGjr
15-12-2008, 02:51 PM
I have many tapes from games since 1985, so would be happy to have them converted and shared if there is interest.

Do you have the game where we tharashed the Bombers including a 10 goal quarter?

I have it somewhere at home as well.

LostDoggy
15-12-2008, 03:32 PM
I have the State of Origin match with EJ's Lap if anyone wants that.

Go_Dogs
15-12-2008, 07:39 PM
My copy arrived today whilst I was at work - not going to be able to watch it tonight though, but at least I have some viewing for tomorrow night all sorted.

Many thanks again TCD and TDB.

bornadog
15-12-2008, 11:40 PM
Do you have the game where we tharashed the Bombers including a 10 goal quarter?

I have it somewhere at home as well.

What year is that one? Was it played at the MCG in the 90's?

Douggie Hawkins
19-12-2008, 02:30 PM
Not too sure if this is going to assist , but my little BROTHER was the director/producer/brain child behind the Video ..So i m sure he ll have a copy or ten at home...

He was a young lawyer at the time working for Peter Gordon at Slater Gordon...He went onto becoming the youngest ever AFL Football Director at the Bulldogs . Could be worth an interview for the TCD , as to "how he came to put the fighback video together etc .." ..

]He is now 41 years old but i know for a FACT he and his wife have an UP YOURS OAKLEY STICKER on their bedhead...!! Sad but true ![/B]

aker39
19-12-2008, 02:56 PM
Not too sure if this is going to assist , but my little BROTHER was the director/producer/brain child behind the Video ..So i m sure he ll have a copy or ten at home...

He was a young lawyer at the time working for Peter Gordon at Slater Gordon...He went onto becoming the youngest ever AFL Football Director at the Bulldogs . Could be worth an interview for the TCD , as to "how he came to put the fighback video together etc .." ..

]He is now 41 years old but i know for a FACT he and his wife have an UP YOURS OAKLEY STICKER on their bedhead...!! Sad but true ![/B]


Is his name Cameron

Douggie Hawkins
19-12-2008, 03:42 PM
No ! You maybe thinking of Cameron Richardson ...Ex GM of the club ..

Lawyer in question is Hayden Stephens ...

LostDoggy
20-12-2008, 02:06 PM
I watched this last night
Quite inspirational really..

They showed Irene Chatfield going to court...but didnt mention she mortgaged her house?

Funny to see the dogs cheer squad leader there..noticed him several times on footage haha

Oh and on subject of old bulldogs docos i have Year Of The Dogs on dvd if anyone is interested...not ultra rare though i assume some of you would have it aswell

GetDimmaBack
26-12-2008, 09:57 PM
I knw I'm coming in late on this one, but I have quite a few Dogs games on video from 97 onwards.
We recently bought a VCR-DVD combo, so I can copy tapes onto disc.
If you're looking for a specific game, I might be able to help.
PM me if you have a request.

LostDoggy
30-12-2008, 10:24 AM
I watched this last night
Quite inspirational really..

They showed Irene Chatfield going to court...but didnt mention she mortgaged her house?

..

Irene didn't have a house. I have no doubt that that was the very reason that the blokes behind the supreme court action would have invited Irene to be the club member applicant. Nick Columb agreed to the merger because Oakley held a proverbial gun to his head, his assets and those of other directors, former directors, even club supporters who had not been directors, Kevin Spurling was one, from memory, were at risk if the club folded. We all love the club but nobody should be asked to put his/her assets on the line. They were heady times. Beasley was a mate of Nick Columb's. How would you feel if your mate looked like losing, on current values, millions i.e. everything, for a football club ? Whilst we all put in more than we should have in time and money, nobody's assets were at risk. Once momentum got going it was something everyone, including Beasley, wanted to be part of. He said so, publicly, on radio. He was shunned by many. That was a disgrace.

GetDimmaBack
12-01-2009, 02:42 PM
Just had a look at it for the first time...an incredibly moving experience.

After drying my eyes, I realise all over again how important it is to support the club as much as we all possibly can. No words can ever express the feeling that comes when your club is "merged". How much did/do the Fitzroy people hurt? Unbelievable.

I also have regained the respect I feel I ought to have had all along for a few other Melbourne clubs whose supporters helped out at the time. Rivalry is one thing, but the thought of losing a rival was to much for many non-Dogs people to bear, fortunately.

Having grown up in Braybrook supporting the Dogs (like, who else?), it was beyond unthinkable that they could be wound up by a bunch of suits. Twenty years on, how great, and powerful, were those rallies? It all probably means more to me now than it did then, if that's possible...

Boy, it's so much more than a game, isn't it?


BTW, how could it ever be that the administrators of the game could have no idea of the depth of feeling supporters have for their clubs? That's something I'll never, ever understand about that great human being, Ross Oakley...

Apologies if this rant is long winded, overly emotional or just plain raving on...but you know how it is.