Roos on The Footy Show

[AndrewP6]

Can't believe all the fuss over a stupid prank. Kudos to NM for taking responsibility, but really, no one was killed. A few dumb footballers did something a bit silly. End of story. Or it should be. I'd be dirty if I was a player there who didn't see the video, but was made to appear in public "apologising". You don't shoot the whole team for the misdeeds of a few. And Adam Simpson didn't really help by saying "I'm the oldest player, and I didn't know it would offend". Stupid. Just stupid.

[alwaysadog]

It's a really hard call; lot's of important issues about women and violence at least subliminally that are indefensible.

More important to me is the fact that North have a culture of singling out the weeks/ months/years worst performer and publicly awarding a booby prize; a process of humiliation.

Nothing I have ever read about motivation and there was a metastudy conducted only a couple of years ago, has ever suggested that this produces positive results.

I suspect that someone needs to have a word in the collective NM ear and suggest that if you consciously include humiliation in your culture it will be taken out ultimately, on others less powerful. It doesn't take a genius to realise that in the case of hairy chested males this will be women.

[LostDoggy]

You're wrong.
Do you think its great for the image of the game and its treatment of women.
I don't know how they could have found ity funny. Call themselves Senior players? Its a 13 yo prank.

[hujsh]

Didn't watch. What is this about?

[LostDoggy]

Can't believe all the fuss over a stupid prank. Kudos to NM for taking responsibility, but really, no one was killed. A few dumb footballers did something a bit silly. End of story. Or it should be. I'd be dirty if I was a player there who didn't see the video, but was made to appear in public "apologising". You don't shoot the whole team for the misdeeds of a few. And Adam Simpson didn't really help by saying "I'm the oldest player, and I didn't know it would offend". Stupid. Just stupid.

a lot worse things in the world then a prank about a chicken

taken way out of proportion

[LostDoggy]

a lot worse things in the world then a prank about a chicken

taken way out of proportion
Firstly its there is more to it than a prank about a chicken. There are sex acts depicted.
Why is a comparison between whats worse? Of course there are worse things that could have happen.
Not sure how its out of proportion? They players got a slap on the hand. As expected in a football town like Melbourne its news worthy. Do you think there are no lessons to be learnt here?

I bet North, their major sponsor and the AFL are delighted.

[Desipura]

Firstly it was reported that it was a youngster who made the video and put it on myspace, then Simpson & Pratt came forward as if they were responsible, utter crap!

[bulldogsman]

Two senior North Melbourne AFL players have admitted to being part of a group of eight players who made an offensive video that was uploaded onto the internet.

Midfielder Adam Simpson and ruckman Daniel Pratt appeared on The Footy Show on Channel Nine last night to confess to being part of the group that made the video, which has been described as tasteless and offensive to women.

It shows a rubber chicken with a condom over its head simulating sex with a chicken carcass.

The dead chicken is later hurled against a wall and run over by a club vehicle. A sponsor's logo is visible at one stage of the video, which has a rap song called 'Move, Bitch' as its soundtrack.

Simpson, a former club captain, says he feels ashamed about making the video.

"We're really embarrassed about it, I'm married, I've got three children, my wife is devastated," he said.

"It's not about how we're feeling I suppose, but we understand we've done the wrong thing."

Kangaroos players have donated $10,000 to a domestic violence charity.

[LostDoggy]

That was the most cringeworthy piece of television since Hugh Grant was interviewed on the Jay Leno show

[LostDoggy]

That was the most cringeworthy piece of television since Hugh Grant was interviewed on the Jay Leno show

Cringeworthy indeed.

It was orchestrated damage control, and just nauseating.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I think it was a puerile act more befitting that of a group of 13 year olds. That senior leadership players were involved makes it all the more deplorable, as you would expect them to have been more responsible. The fact that it seems they in some ways have tried to defend it by saying "it was only ever for viewing internally" misses the point by a fair margin.
The fact that there were overtones of sex mixed with alcohol and violence against women is the real issue here. Which goes hand in hand with the negative perceptions in the wider community of footballers in general (not just AFL footballers) and their attitude towards women.

I would be interested in hearing the thoughts of some our female members here on woof on this topic.

[G-Mo77]

I think it was a puerile act more befitting that of a group of 13 year olds. That senior leadership players were involved makes it all the more deplorable, as you would expect them to have been more responsible. The fact that it seems they in some ways have tried to defend it by saying "it was only ever for viewing internally" misses the point by a fair margin.
The fact that there were overtones of sex mixed with alcohol and violence against women is the real issue here. Which goes hand in hand with the negative perceptions in the wider community of footballers in general (not just AFL footballers) and their attitude towards women.

I would be interested in hearing the thoughts of some our female members here on woof on this topic.

I don't beleive for a second that they were involved. I just think "They're taking one for the team"

As for the video. I'm not offended by it. I've seen a lot worse on YouTube. It was a stupid thing to do and at any age an AFL registered player should have known better.

[Desipura]

I'm almost certain they did not do it, they are leaders and put their hand up to "take one for the team".
Being leaders they are best equipped to handle the scrutiny. All this crap that they are no certainty to play this weekend is just that!

[mighty_west]

IF both Simmo & Pratt took one for the team, especially Simmo, he was the one answering most questions, you have to say it was extremely couragous for those 2 players to front up, however, IF they were involved, then they are just dimbats, especlally Adam, i just could not imagine him having any part of this, he seems from the outside as someone with such high morals as anyone going around.

It's as though it was Chris Grant or Dale Morris, you just couldn't imagine they would have anything to do with something like this.

[LostDoggy]

I think it was a puerile act more befitting that of a group of 13 year olds. That senior leadership players were involved makes it all the more deplorable, as you would expect them to have been more responsible. The fact that it seems they in some ways have tried to defend it by saying "it was only ever for viewing internally" misses the point by a fair margin.
The fact that there were overtones of sex mixed with alcohol and violence against women is the real issue here. Which goes hand in hand with the negative perceptions in the wider community of footballers in general (not just AFL footballers) and their attitude towards women.

I would be interested in hearing the thoughts of some our female members here on woof on this topic.

Okay Yankee Hotel Foxtrot - you have encouraged me to post as a female member - I read the initial post last night after watching Simpson & Pratt on the Footy Show, and was flabbergasted that someone thought it was just a prank and a beat up. I totally agree with your comments - even the way Simpson & Pratt were apologising seemed to me that they had totally missed the point - "only intended for internal viewing"! The very fact that this was made at all is the point - I also baulked at something Brayshaw said about the club - I mean this is the club where players have admitted having affairs with other players wives, arguments & punch-ups, etc. It would appear that the culture at North Melbourne has a way to go given their track record. I would be totally mortified if our team was ever involved it anything of this nature. It is totally school shelter shed stuff but possibly a bit more violent, and grown, mature men should know better. It showed a complete lack of respect of women in general. Even the sniggering in the audience left me cold - is it just that Australian culture is to try and make a joke of something, rather than really face the issues? I as a female would be interested in hearing any comments from our male members who have young sons and think about whether you would be happy for them to be involved in something like this? :confused:

[Mofra]

Firstly its there is more to it than a prank about a chicken. There are sex acts depicted.
Why is a comparison between whats worse? Of course there are worse things that could have happen.
Not sure how its out of proportion? They players got a slap on the hand. As expected in a football town like Melbourne its news worthy. Do you think there are no lessons to be learnt here?

I bet North, their major sponsor and the AFL are delighted.
That would be the AFL's view. It sees part of it's push into NRL heartland as being a more family friendly game, then a bunch of men-children make one of the dumbest videos known to man.

How anyone with an IQ over 45 could find the video even tolerable is astonishing. As much as the issue is about the depiction of women, I'm more worried that peopel could actually wind up more stupid for having viewed the video more than once. A public health warning is needed.

[LostDoggy]

That would be the AFL's view. It sees part of it's push into NRL heartland as being a more family friendly game, then a bunch of men-children make one of the dumbest videos known to man.

How anyone with an IQ over 45 could find the video even tolerable is astonishing. As much as the issue is about the depiction of women, I'm more worried that peopel could actually wind up more stupid for having viewed the video more than once. A public health warning is needed.

Agree with you Mofra - I actually didn't even try to see the whole video - (why would I want to?), I only saw the snippets that were on the news and on the Footy Show. :)

[LostDoggy]

Well Tony Shaw and Brian Taylor on tonight's edition of AFL Teams, couldn't see what all the hype is about and believe it should have been kept "in house" for the club to deal with. I have not seen the video (but get the gist from the media coverage) and I don't watch the Footy Show (gave up on it 3 years ago). I did read an opinion piece on the subject in yesterday's Age where it was noted that this has come from the club that produced and adored Wayne Carey. Great footballer yes, reasonably behaved person no. Mind you, they are not the first club to support a brilliant career footballer who's out of hours behaviour is socially unacceptable.

As for the video, I'm with Magic above - if a group of our players were involved in something like this I would not be impressed and could not see a way to defend it. The comments from alwaysadog about humiliating an under performing player each week, or whatever, also adds to the whole tastelessness of the thing.

Sadly I'm not surprised by the incident. We are a fair way from a society that treats everyone (or even themselves) with a due amount of respect.

This doesn't mean I don't have a sense of humour or find political correctness over the top at times. Borat was one of the funniest films I have ever seen.

[BulldogBelle]

Well Tony Shaw and Brian Taylor on tonight's edition of AFL Teams, couldn't see what all the hype is about and believe it should have been kept "in house" for the club to deal with.

Rohan Smith also brought up another point during the show which has some merit...why is it only Pratt and Simpson that stepped up to the plate to own up and why didn't the other 5 that were involved come forward?

[LostDoggy]

Rohan Smith also brought up another point during the show which has some merit...why is it only Pratt and Simpson that stepped up to the plate to own up and why didn't the other 5 that were involved come forward?

And it is hard to believe that Simpson was involved anyway. However if 7 players were hauled over the coals that has a big impact on next week's playing list I presume. Basically it is about protecting the club, not making amends for inappropriate behaviour IMHO.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Okay Yankee Hotel Foxtrot - you have encouraged me to post as a female member - I read the initial post last night after watching Simpson & Pratt on the Footy Show, and was flabbergasted that someone thought it was just a prank and a beat up. I totally agree with your comments - even the way Simpson & Pratt were apologising seemed to me that they had totally missed the point - "only intended for internal viewing"! The very fact that this was made at all is the point - I also baulked at something Brayshaw said about the club - I mean this is the club where players have admitted having affairs with other players wives, arguments & punch-ups, etc. It would appear that the culture at North Melbourne has a way to go given their track record. I would be totally mortified if our team was ever involved it anything of this nature. It is totally school shelter shed stuff but possibly a bit more violent, and grown, mature men should know better. It showed a complete lack of respect of women in general. Even the sniggering in the audience left me cold - is it just that Australian culture is to try and make a joke of something, rather than really face the issues? I as a female would be interested in hearing any comments from our male members who have young sons and think about whether you would be happy for them to be involved in something like this? :confused:

MG thanks for your honest thoughts on this from a female perspective. The fact the audience were sniggering made me feel uneasy as well.

If as some suggest the senior players are taking the fall for others who were behind it, then I think it only serves to further reinforce that North just don't get it?

Those responsible should have to face the music, they should be made to feel uneasy with the scrutiny that would follow. Only then would they fully appreciate how serious it is , and we in return would be more willing to believe their contrition.

I don't see any difference here between racially vilifying someone and this to be honest, and the real perpretators should have to publically face the music in both cases, not be covered for by their mates, if this is truly what Simpson and co are doing.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

It's a really hard call; lot's of important issues about women and violence at least subliminally that are indefensible.

More important to me is the fact that North have a culture of singling out the weeks/ months/years worst performer and publicly awarding a booby prize; a process of humiliation.

Nothing I have ever read about motivation and there was a metastudy conducted only a couple of years ago, has ever suggested that this produces positive results.

I suspect that someone needs to have a word in the collective NM ear and suggest that if you consciously include humiliation in your culture it will be taken out ultimately, on others less powerful. It doesn't take a genius to realise that in the case of hairy chested males this will be women.

This is quite disturbing, and I agree with your conclusion as to where this can lead to.

[AndrewP6]

Okay Yankee Hotel Foxtrot - you have encouraged me to post as a female member - I read the initial post last night after watching Simpson & Pratt on the Footy Show, and was flabbergasted that someone thought it was just a prank and a beat up. I totally agree with your comments - even the way Simpson & Pratt were apologising seemed to me that they had totally missed the point - "only intended for internal viewing"! The very fact that this was made at all is the point - I also baulked at something Brayshaw said about the club - I mean this is the club where players have admitted having affairs with other players wives, arguments & punch-ups, etc. It would appear that the culture at North Melbourne has a way to go given their track record. I would be totally mortified if our team was ever involved it anything of this nature. It is totally school shelter shed stuff but possibly a bit more violent, and grown, mature men should know better. It showed a complete lack of respect of women in general. Even the sniggering in the audience left me cold - is it just that Australian culture is to try and make a joke of something, rather than really face the issues? I as a female would be interested in hearing any comments from our male members who have young sons and think about whether you would be happy for them to be involved in something like this? :confused:

Magic Griffin, thanks for your input... perhaps we'll have to agree to disagree on several points. I think that the people involved (and for the record, I don't think Simpson was really involved) were stupid. They were thoughtless, and inconsiderate. However, I stick to my view that it was only a stupid prank (and a beat-up), and that far too much has been made of it. I am amazed so many would be so offended. I personally didn't find the video particularly amusing, but to equate it to real acts of violence is silly. It was a rubber chicken, remember. It's not real. Plenty of children run around play-fighting and shooting toy guns, they don't all turn out to be murderers. If NM's culture was so bad, they wouldn't have bothered making their players front the media (and make no mistake, they were MADE to do that!) They could easily have dismissed it, but chose to distance the club itself from the schoolboy prank staged by a few. They deserve credit -even if their hand was forced. If any of our players were involved in something similar, AND owned up to it, I'd say "Big dumb footballers"...then move on. They're human, and people expect far too much from these blokes. They're good at footy, not rocket science. They (NM) messed up, they said sorry. Simple as that.

No, I don't have my own children. However, if, as an adult, my son was involved in a similar prank, I'd say "That was stupid." But it's hardly worthy of capital punishment. Plenty of other bad things happening in the world to spend our days worrying about "Boris"

[LostDoggy]

Magic Griffin, thanks for your input... perhaps we'll have to agree to disagree on several points. I think that the people involved (and for the record, I don't think Simpson was really involved) were stupid. They were thoughtless, and inconsiderate. However, I stick to my view that it was only a stupid prank (and a beat-up), and that far too much has been made of it. I am amazed so many would be so offended. I personally didn't find the video particularly amusing, but to equate it to real acts of violence is silly. It was a rubber chicken, remember. It's not real. Plenty of children run around play-fighting and shooting toy guns, they don't all turn out to be murderers. If NM's culture was so bad, they wouldn't have bothered making their players front the media (and make no mistake, they were MADE to do that!) They could easily have dismissed it, but chose to distance the club itself from the schoolboy prank staged by a few. They deserve credit -even if their hand was forced. If any of our players were involved in something similar, AND owned up to it, I'd say "Big dumb footballers"...then move on. They're human, and people expect far too much from these blokes. They're good at footy, not rocket science. They (NM) messed up, they said sorry. Simple as that.

No, I don't have my own children. However, if, as an adult, my son was involved in a similar prank, I'd say "That was stupid." But it's hardly worthy of capital punishment. Plenty of other bad things happening in the world to spend our days worrying about "Boris"

No problem - what I forgot to post that obviously we all have different opinions and thoughts and whilst we differ, I respect your right to have a different opinion than me :)

[LostDoggy]

It was a rubber chicken, remember. It's not real. Plenty of children run around play-fighting and shooting toy guns, they don't all turn out to be murderers.

Yes Children do that. These are grown men.
Simulating shooting with toys between kids is one thing not sure how you can compere it with simulating sex with a real chicken and rubber one in a video made by so called adults.

[AndrewP6]

Yes Children do that. These are grown men.
Simulating shooting with toys between kids is one thing not sure how you can compere it with simulating sex with a real chicken and rubber one in a video made by so called adults.

Uh, because sex between a rubber chicken and a dead, frozen one CAN'T HAPPEN! It's ludicrous, like the video itself... No real, live chickens were used, if that happened I'd be repulsed. Yes, they're grown men (although some newer players aren't really "men" yet, I'd argue!) but as I mentioned, no one could accuse them all of being intelligent. That's not their strong suit. Does anyone really think they know better? Yes, we all know they SHOULD know better, but to think they all do, is giving them far too much credit. "Big dumb footballers" were my words. And that's what they are.

[Remi Moses]

Okay Yankee Hotel Foxtrot - you have encouraged me to post as a female member - I read the initial post last night after watching Simpson & Pratt on the Footy Show, and was flabbergasted that someone thought it was just a prank and a beat up. I totally agree with your comments - even the way Simpson & Pratt were apologising seemed to me that they had totally missed the point - "only intended for internal viewing"! The very fact that this was made at all is the point - I also baulked at something Brayshaw said about the club - I mean this is the club where players have admitted having affairs with other players wives, arguments & punch-ups, etc. It would appear that the culture at North Melbourne has a way to go given their track record. I would be totally mortified if our team was ever involved it anything of this nature. It is totally school shelter shed stuff but possibly a bit more violent, and grown, mature men should know better. It showed a complete lack of respect of women in general. Even the sniggering in the audience left me cold - is it just that Australian culture is to try and make a joke of something, rather than really face the issues? I as a female would be interested in hearing any comments from our male members who have young sons and think about whether you would be happy for them to be involved in something like this? :confused:

Well Done total knucle dragging neandathal, puerile infetile 12 year old stupid unfunny so called prank.Jesus sometimes I wonder If some of us males are stuck in the caveman era .As for Tony Shaw he once thought it was okay to racially abuse someone to gain an ''edge'' in battle.

[Remi Moses]

If they win this week is that the ol' chickenbone spirit. Sorry couldn't resist.

[AndrewP6]

If they win this week is that the ol' chickenbone spirit. Sorry couldn't resist.

HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA!!:):D:

Hilarious... Good to hear someone with a sense of humour....

[LostDoggy]

Yankee Hotel Foxtrot, as another female member, I totaly agree with Magic Griffin and Ms Bulldog. Watching Simpson and Pratt on the footy show taking the rap, while members of the audience laughed and sniggered, made me feel really uncomfortable. They may have only been a rubber chicken and a frozen chicken, but the simulation of rape and violence is a very real expereince for many women in Australia (half of the incidents are never reported to police).

I do think that sometimes political correctness goes a bit far - but I can also remember as a teenager growing up in the 70s, it was the social view that if a woman got raped, it was because she shouldn't have been there (walking home, getting into a car with a male, being at a party etc etc), or she was dressed in too revealing clothes, or she was asking for it. :confused: The responsibility for the rape was always on the victim never the perpetrator of the violence. I would like to think that society has moved a long way away since then, but unfortunately incidents like this just reinforce the old stereotypes about women. It has been really heartening for me to hear so many of the men on this forum speak out against it - well done guys:)

Finally, if North Melbourne as a club was genuine about stamping out violence and sexual assault, these players would not be playing this weekend. You really do have to admire Collingwood FC for taking the stand they did last year against Shaw and Didak.

[LostDoggy]

If they win this week is that the ol' chickenbone spirit. Sorry couldn't resist.

I love it:)

[Remi Moses]

Yankee Hotel Foxtrot, as another female member, I totaly agree with Magic Griffin and Ms Bulldog. Watching Simpson and Pratt on the footy show taking the rap, while members of the audience laughed and sniggered, made me feel really uncomfortable. They may have only been a rubber chicken and a frozen chicken, but the simulation of rape and violence is a very real expereince for many women in Australia (half of the incidents are never reported to police).

I do think that sometimes political correctness goes a bit far - but I can also remember as a teenager growing up in the 70s, it was the social view that if a woman got raped, it was because she shouldn't have been there (walking home, getting into a car with a male, being at a party etc etc), or she was dressed in too revealing clothes, or she was asking for it. :confused: The responsibility for the rape was always on the victim never the perpetrator of the violence. I would like to think that society has moved a long way away since then, but unfortunately incidents like this just reinforce the old stereotypes about women. It has been really heartening for me to hear so many of the men on this forum speak out against it - well done guys:)

Finally, if North Melbourne as a club was genuine about stamping out violence and sexual assault, these players would not be playing this weekend. You really do have to admire Collingwood FC for taking the stand they did last year against Shaw and Didak.
They did nothing about their greatest player of all time. Just let him run his own race.CULTURE

[LostDoggy]

Uh, because sex between a rubber chicken and a dead, frozen one CAN'T HAPPEN!
So simulation of sex is fine by you then? Maybe we should release the kiddy fiddlers as the sex with a computer can't happen either.

[LostDoggy]

Well Tony Shaw and Brian Taylor on tonight's edition of AFL Teams, couldn't see what all the hype is about and believe it should have....

Surprising that, Two renaissance men of culture, refinement, learning and sensitivity.

[ledge]

Dont know if i would back Nth this week with this taking mind off game, Hawks might be lucky this happened as i think they might have been a big chance to be 0-3

[ledge]

Can the footy show actually comment after the Sam Newman and Caro stuff?

[ledge]

On the post about having kids and being responsible, does this make Fev look even more stupid?
He hass children but goes into the middle of the city with a dildo hanging out of his pants for all to see.
Whats his explanation when his kids do something and they say, "well look what you did!"

[alwaysadog]

Can the footy show actually comment after the Sam Newman and Caro stuff?

Hypocrisy, pure and simple.

They did very little about Sam. After his act he should have been shown the door, his continued presence represents the usual lip service to appropriate standards in such matters.

As for Shaw and Taylor I suspect they were trying to be controversial but were out of their depth given the issue they picked. Rather than attracting listeners they will have made sure that large numbers are turned away.

[AndrewP6]

So simulation of sex is fine by you then? Maybe we should release the kiddy fiddlers as the sex with a computer can't happen either.

:mad: what on Earth does a rubber chicken have to do with child molesters, who are the scum of the earth? What those lowlifes do is COMPLETELY different, as it can and does actually happen. It is vile, repulsive and they deserve the full penalty available (and more). What those stupid football players did was a game. A stupid, childish game, but a game. All the symbolism people have attached is way over the top.

[AndrewP6]

So simulation of sex is fine by you then? .

I have never once said I enjoyed the video. I have never claimed it to be well done, or to approve. I've only said it should be put in perspective...

[ledge]

:mad: what on Earth does a rubber chicken have to do with child molesters, who are the scum of the earth? What those lowlifes do is COMPLETELY different, as it can and does actually happen. It is vile, repulsive and they deserve the full penalty available (and more). What those stupid football players did was a game. A stupid, childish game, but a game. All the symbolism people have attached is way over the top.

I tend to agree, it was a childish stupid thing they did, at 18 yeah we all probably did silly things, not condoning it but am surprised it was the older players at the club.
And the symbolism some seem to find because they are looking for one.
Im sure the people involved didnt sit down and say oh lets make a video that symbolises this, this and this.

Some of it seems a bit like if you play a certain song backwards it means ... etc .
Just take it as a childish and stupid prank without trying to read other stuff into it.

[LostDoggy]

:mad: what on Earth does a rubber chicken have to do with child molesters, who are the scum of the earth? What those lowlifes do is COMPLETELY different, as it can and does actually happen. It is vile, repulsive and they deserve the full penalty available (and more). What those stupid football players did was a game. A stupid, childish game, but a game. All the symbolism people have attached is way over the top.

You used toy guns as an example, which has about the same relevence as child molesters.

[LostDoggy]

I have never once said I enjoyed the video. I have never claimed it to be well done, or to approve. I've only said it should be put in perspective...

Please tell us the perspective then. To me it can be only taken one way, not sure how anyone could think it wasn't offensive.

[LostDoggy]

I tend to agree, it was a childish stupid thing they did, at 18 yeah we all probably did silly things, not condoning it but am surprised it was the older players at the club.
And the symbolism some seem to find because they are looking for one.
Im sure the people involved didnt sit down and say oh lets make a video that symbolises this, this and this.

Some of it seems a bit like if you play a certain song backwards it means ... etc .
Just take it as a childish and stupid prank without trying to read other stuff into it.

But it's PRECISELY because they didn't think it through that the sybolism is disturbing. If they did it deliberately and consciously you could say they were taking the pi$$, but in this case they were just 'doing what they thought was funny' without much thought, which reveals an embedded attitude towards women in football (or North Melbourne, at least).

Isn't that the whole problem with this affair? The only people who don't think there's anything wrong with it are individuals so deeply embedded in footy culture that they can't see that it's not normal or acceptable behaviour in the rest of society. I can't think of anyone not involved in a boofhead sporting culture who would think that making a video like that is a 'harmless little prank'... these attitudes are so deeply etched into footy culture that we almost expect it of footballers -- what if politicians, or school principals, or a bunch of teachers were caught making such a video? That would never be tolerated and an inquiry into the 'culture' of teachers would be launched, but somehow when a bunch of footballers does it it's expected and excused?

I would suggest that footballers (and other celebrity sportspeople), with their prominence in society, their role model positions (and influence over children similar to that of teachers), and the vast leeway and privilege given to them by society, should not be a repository of the most backward attitudes in society.

Fair enough if you think too much media coverage has been given to this issue (I tend to agree), but if you think casual and careless misogyny and sexism is just at the level of a throwaway, 'harmless prank', and excusable because it was made by footballers rather than by more intelligent people, then I am equally and deeply offended by that assertion.

[AndrewP6]

Please tell us the perspective then. To me it can be only taken one way, not sure how anyone could think it wasn't offensive.

The perspective is - there are far worse things happening in the world, committed by real people against real people, for this to be ranked up there. If anyone wants to harbour anger towards those who get involved in real crimes against real people, I'll readily join the chorus of disapproval. As I've already said, I didn't think much of said video. Didn't laugh, wasn't interested, didn't actually care that much. Maybe my level of tolerance is greater than some. Those involved have copped their whack. I think we need to let it go.

[AndrewP6]

Fair enough if you think too much media coverage has been given to this issue (I tend to agree), but if you think casual and careless misogyny and sexism is just at the level of a throwaway, 'harmless prank', and excusable because it was made by footballers rather than by more intelligent people, then I am equally and deeply offended by that assertion.

I don't think anyone here has actually described the incident as excusable at all. But if Joe Average had posted the video, do you think it'd make the news? These men are under the microscope all the time. But they show time and again they make mistakes. They're human. We've all said and done regrettable things.As for the " casual and careless misogyny", have you never raised even the slightest smile at a "joke" which targeted certain people -eg- 'blonde jokes'. I'm in a wheelchair and have heard some hilarious jokes where a disabled person was at the core of the 'joke'. If I raised protest at every joke, what sort of life would I lead?

[AndrewP6]

You used toy guns as an example, which has about the same relevence as child molesters.

Sorry if you didn't see the relevance. Just a few questions to ponder - If I make a joke about blonde woman, does that mean I hate all blonde women?

If I make a joke about indigenous Australians, does that mean I am racist? What if the joke comes from an indigenous Australian?

I had a friend who is Jewish. She told me a joke involving Jews, and I thought it was funny. (true story, by the way) Does that mean she and I are anti-Semitic?

[AndrewP6]

I'm kind of over this thread. Sorry I started it. Maybe next Thursday I'll leave the computer switched off.