Carlton: Pretenders not Contenders

[LostDoggy]

Suck that, Bluebaggers. Essendon won't even make the 8 this year but they had it all over you.

I'm so over Collingwood and Carlton having the media drool over them the moment they win any inconsequential game (like beating Richmond) when other less fashionable teams (Port, Saints , Dogs) have to win FINALS consistently for three years before they even get a mention in the 'favourites' column.

Why don't Carlton have to 'prove themselves' as finals contenders before being named third favourites for the flag? Why don't Carlton's midfield have to even appear in a single final in over 8 years before being named 'best midfield in the comp', even over Geelong's, just because bloody Nick Stevens (who never did anything even before he was injured) is now fit?

Because of this, I LOVE the fact that their supposed great midfield got walked all over by the likes of Courtney Dempsey and Hayden Skipworth. I LOVE the fact that their non-existent defence was shown to be precisely that by every forward thrust from Essendon. I LOVE the fact that their greatest midfield of all time has a 2nd year ruckman absolutely murdered by a supposedy inferior opponent in David Hille.

And most of all, I LOVE that their supposed match winning midfield, in the last play of the game, saw Judd pass the ball to Marc Murphy in the forward 50, who proceeds to fall over and lose the ball. Maybe, just maybe, the media may wait a little bit before anointing the likes of Gibbs and Murphy as guns -- Cooney and Griffen have both already achieved far, far more than either of them (Brownlow, finals appearances, finals wins) and deserve to be recognised as far more accomplished players than the two Carlton kids who have played maybe 5 good games between the two of them in their entire careers. This Carlton midfield, far from being the best in the league and deserving of comparison with the great midfields of all time, currently lie behind Geelong's, Hawthorn's, Dogs's, Saint's, and Sydney's. Heck, on tonight's evidence, they lie behind Essendon's.

Carlton better pray that Judd doesn't ever get injured ever again because they are one dodgy shoulder away from bottom 4/wooden spoon status.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Couldn't of happened to a better team.

Love that Fevola missed seven shots.

Love that Davey/Dons stuck it up Thorton/Blues late in the third.

Feels like a win.

[hujsh]

I was watching the game hoping they lose so the media might react the way you do.

If they get half the caning you gave them from the media I'll be happy

[ledge]

UMM you mentioned murdered? It was only 4 points one kick and result would have been other way.
Yeah dont get me wrong i was backing Essendon and dont rate the bombers at all, but lets face it play as a team and you can win , Magpies been doing it for years, not a star amongst them.
Personally i think the game was won from opposition mistakes but if you look at all 16 sides i think there are 8 sides worse than Carlton which means they probably will make the 8.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

UMM you mentioned murdered? It was only 4 points one kick and result would have been other way.
Yeah dont get me wrong i was backing Essendon and dont rate the bombers at all, but lets face it play as a team and you can win , Magpies been doing it for years, not a star amongst them.
Personally i think the game was won from opposition mistakes but if you look at all 16 sides i think there are 8 sides worse than Carlton which means they probably will make the 8.

It proves however, that Carlton are a long way off where they and the media depicted themselves. The whole "We are coming", "Top Four" and "Fab Four" crap has been thrown about in the first two weeks when they've beaten nobody. This was a nice, timely reminder that they are a long way off the front runners.

Should make the finals, but they aren't as good as a lot of fools have made them out to be.

[GVGjr]

It proves however, that Carlton are a long way off where they and the media depicted themselves. The whole "We are coming", "Top Four" and "Fab Four" crap has been thrown about in the first two weeks when they've beaten nobody. This was a nice, timely reminder that they are a long way off the front runners.

Should make the finals, but they aren't as good as a lot of fools have made them out to be.

The loss to the Bombers tonight does not change my opinion of them. I still think they are up there in the mix for the top 6. I thought the Bombers played very well tonight and Carlton had their chances.

[ledge]

Must admit i loved Walls comments on this so called fab four, he was straight to the point, what have they done??
No history of anything at all.
Makes you wonder how stupid Hird really is, or was he just pumping them up so if the Bombers win he can say the Bombers four are better?
And i do hate Carlton with a passion.

[LostDoggy]

UMM you mentioned murdered? It was only 4 points one kick and result would have been other way.
Yeah dont get me wrong i was backing Essendon and dont rate the bombers at all, but lets face it play as a team and you can win , Magpies been doing it for years, not a star amongst them.
Personally i think the game was won from opposition mistakes but if you look at all 16 sides i think there are 8 sides worse than Carlton which means they probably will make the 8.

I think Essendon should have put them away earlier than that, with so many shots on goal that should have gone through.

How many shots on goal did Fev miss? Made me laugh when I remember he won the poll against Gilbee on most reliable kick for goal in the league:rolleyes:

[Dry Rot]

Are we talking about the team we couldn't beat for the last two seasons?

I hate the scum and don't disagree with anyone's comments, but I'll be a lot happier after a win against these pricks in a few weeks time.

[Bulldog Revolution]

The loss to the Bombers tonight does not change my opinion of them. I still think they are up there in the mix for the top 6. I thought the Bombers played very well tonight and Carlton had their chances.



Are we talking about the team we couldn't beat for the last two seasons?

I hate the scum and don't disagree with anyone's comments, but I'll be a lot happier after a win against these pricks in a few weeks time.


I still rate Carlton mainly for their ability to get clean quick centre square takeaways - they'r so dynamic in there and that gets Fevola easy shots at goal. Sure the backline isn't that strong but its not like we've got a power forward they cant match up with. And as DR points out they've toasted us the last few times particularly out of the middle.

Essendon showed tonight that they have the makings of a competitive side, and they've got a lot of good young players. Knights I think has done some of the hard yards, he still has a few more to do but if I was a dons supporter I'd be pleased with the direction. They still have Hurley, Houli and McVeigh to come back in so I think they are dangerous opposition on their day.

[LostDoggy]

I loved the Essendon banner.

[mjp]

Round 1 2007 we easily accounted for Geelong - they won the flag, we missed the finals.

It is one game in April. Whilst I agree that the hype about their squad is over the top, they are still a huge threat based on the quality of that midfield alone. I was interested in the fab 4 article from yesterday though - mainly because of the inclusion of Stevens. He has a long way to go to prove he is still an elite player - guys like Simpson have passed him within that group I think.

[Curly5]

Are we talking about the team we couldn't beat for the last two seasons?

I hate the scum and don't disagree with anyone's comments, but I'll be a lot happier after a win against these pricks in a few weeks time.
Just thinking the same thing. We can gloat when we've beaten them.

[LostDoggy]

I don't buy Carlton's superiority over us.
They beat us last season cos we ran out of puff. We had them on toast at 38 points up.
The season before again we had the upper hand then McMahon falls asleep and Lappin who hadn't kicked a goal for 2 years prior kicks 4 then retires.
They were disgraceful losses that had more to do with the state of our team at the time than anything about Carlton.

[AndrewP6]

Like everyone here, I'm a one-eyed Dog supporter. But I watched intently as the baby bombers fell over the line last night. I hate the Blues. I sense our team has matured a lot recently. I hope that helps us to finish them off when we play them. Don't want to sit through another letdown a la last year, when we had them beat then went to sleep...

[mighty_west]

Whilst i still think the Blues will be knocking on the door to the 4 this year, i still took great delight in seeing them get done by less than a kick...AWWWWWWW, what a shame, so close, yet........so close.

:D

[LostDoggy]

Suck that, Bluebaggers. Essendon won't even make the 8 this year but they had it all over you.

I'm so over Collingwood and Carlton having the media drool over them the moment they win any inconsequential game (like beating Richmond) when other less fashionable teams (Port, Saints , Dogs) have to win FINALS consistently for three years before they even get a mention in the 'favourites' column.

Why don't Carlton have to 'prove themselves' as finals contenders before being named third favourites for the flag? Why don't Carlton's midfield have to even appear in a single final in over 8 years before being named 'best midfield in the comp', even over Geelong's, just because bloody Nick Stevens (who never did anything even before he was injured) is now fit?

Because of this, I LOVE the fact that their supposed great midfield got walked all over by the likes of Courtney Dempsey and Hayden Skipworth. I LOVE the fact that their non-existent defence was shown to be precisely that by every forward thrust from Essendon. I LOVE the fact that their greatest midfield of all time has a 2nd year ruckman absolutely murdered by a supposedy inferior opponent in David Hille.

And most of all, I LOVE that their supposed match winning midfield, in the last play of the game, saw Judd pass the ball to Marc Murphy in the forward 50, who proceeds to fall over and lose the ball. Maybe, just maybe, the media may wait a little bit before anointing the likes of Gibbs and Murphy as guns -- Cooney and Griffen have both already achieved far, far more than either of them (Brownlow, finals appearances, finals wins) and deserve to be recognised as far more accomplished players than the two Carlton kids who have played maybe 5 good games between the two of them in their entire careers. This Carlton midfield, far from being the best in the league and deserving of comparison with the great midfields of all time, currently lie behind Geelong's, Hawthorn's, Dogs's, Saint's, and Sydney's. Heck, on tonight's evidence, they lie behind Essendon's.

Carlton better pray that Judd doesn't ever get injured ever again because they are one dodgy shoulder away from bottom 4/wooden spoon status.

Great post! I too agree that Cooney and Griffen are much more accomplished players that the Carlton boys, but hey, who cares if the media talks them up? Their bubble burst a little last night, and maybe their ego's and big heads (players and supporters!) will have to be kept under control. It's so early in the season - I also agree we need to beat both Carlton and the Saints - I think we play Carlton after the Weagles and then St. Kilda. It was pretty strange last night - I don't particularly like Essendon either - but I really wanted them to beat the Bluebaggers! Good result, as long as the Essendon supporters don't start talking about finals now! I have known some to be like that :)

[The Pie Man]

We know you're coming
You'll be here soon
It's a long way back
From a Wooden spoon

Wasn't bad

[LostDoggy]

The Blues are still a good side and I won't let one loss to Essendon change that opinion.
The Hawks look like they found their form accounting for North a lot easier than what we did. Different conditions yes, but they have a few players still to come back.

[LostDoggy]

UMM you mentioned murdered? It was only 4 points one kick and result would have been other way.
Yeah dont get me wrong i was backing Essendon and dont rate the bombers at all, but lets face it play as a team and you can win , Magpies been doing it for years, not a star amongst them.
Personally i think the game was won from opposition mistakes but if you look at all 16 sides i think there are 8 sides worse than Carlton which means they probably will make the 8.

I did say 'murdered', which is, of course, a ridiculous overstatement. (As you said, it WAS only four points.)

Ironically, however, it is a far smaller overstatement than calling Carlton third favourites and ridiculously comparing their midfield to Brisbane 2001 - 2004, Geelong's etc.

Just my attempt to bring some balance to the universe. *grin*

[FrediKanoute]

I still rate Carlton mainly for their ability to get clean quick centre square takeaways - they'r so dynamic in there and that gets Fevola easy shots at goal. Sure the backline isn't that strong but its not like we've got a power forward they cant match up with. And as DR points out they've toasted us the last few times particularly out of the middle.

Essendon showed tonight that they have the makings of a competitive side, and they've got a lot of good young players. Knights I think has done some of the hard yards, he still has a few more to do but if I was a dons supporter I'd be pleased with the direction. They still have Hurley, Houli and McVeigh to come back in so I think they are dangerous opposition on their day.

I think Carlton are where we were a couple of years ago. A good group of young players with a sprinkling of maturity who will, if given time develop into a team whcih challenges for the 8. Judd is still relatively young as a player and having guys like Murphy and Kruezner alongside him in the middle makes for an exciting team.

Essendon for mine still have a little bit of decline to go through. They will suprise and win a game here and there, but I can´t see them making the 8 with their list this year and probably next year!

[ledge]

With all the good picks carlton have and players they have bought under the table i think they have underachieved in the last year and a half to be honest.
But sadly they are coming, to mention a fab four etc is very over the top though, as Walls said what have they done,.
Im pretty sure we have more a fab four or five , one wins a brownlow, one the way he is playing might win one and another who occasionally goes in the centre has won one and 3 flags!
Gibbs and Murphy are good footballers but plenty of good footballers havent become great, time will tell.

[Mantis]

With all the good picks carlton have and players they have bought under the table i think they have underachieved in the last year and a half to be honest.
But sadly they are coming, to mention a fab four etc is very over the top though, as Walls said what have they done,.
Im pretty sure we have more a fab four or five , one wins a brownlow, one the way he is playing might win one and another who occasionally goes in the centre has won one and 3 flags!
Gibbs and Murphy are good footballers but plenty of good footballers havent become great, time will tell.

Which top draft picks have under-achieved?

Kreuzer is just 19, Gibbs only 20 & Murphy 21. Isn't it a bit rich to be asking these guys to be dominating games week in and week out?

And who have they brought under table? Which of these player's haven't performed?

[ledge]

I dont mean the single players have underachieved i mean as a team, just i think last season they could have been better than they were as a team.
Where did i say any should dominate? You dont need to be a good team to have dominating players, Nth and Collingwood have been getting in finals without having dominating players, its about playing as a team also.
As far as underachieved as individual players, well people calling them the fab four, they have underachieved to get that nickname already though havent they?
Not saying they havent got the abillity, my point is your not a fab four until you have done something, they might not even become the tag being put on them.
Well i think Judd was bought with under the table deals and Carlton have a history of doing it, you think they could afford all these players under the salary cap?
Isnt Judd employed by Visy brd outside of footy? Dont tell me that wage isnt a cover up to pay him more to get him at Carlton?
Lets be honest here we have more a fab four than they do at this point in time.

[ledge]

I think Carlton are where we were a couple of years ago. A good group of young players with a sprinkling of maturity who will, if given time develop into a team whcih challenges for the 8. Judd is still relatively young as a player and having guys like Murphy and Kruezner alongside him in the middle makes for an exciting team.

Essendon for mine still have a little bit of decline to go through. They will suprise and win a game here and there, but I can´t see them making the 8 with their list this year and probably next year!

I agree with all this, Carlton has the potential to be a very dominant side soon.

[Mantis]

Lets be honest here we have more a fab four than they do at this point in time.

The Western Bulldogs don't sell newspapers, Carlton do.

[ledge]

Well one good thing about that is the misdemeaners clubs do can put the high profile clubs in more poo than us i suppose.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Which top draft picks have under-achieved?

Kreuzer is just 19, Gibbs only 20 & Murphy 21. Isn't it a bit rich to be asking these guys to be dominating games week in and week out?

And who have they brought under table? Which of these player's haven't performed?

I would love to know the real details about the Judd and Warnock deals.

[LostDoggy]

To all those who were saying that Carlton was any good --

What were you saying again? WHAT???????

I watched the game they played against the Crows, and the umps GAVE (and I mean GAVE) Carlton their first 6 goals (anyone else who watched this will agree with me), and they still sucked so badly that they didn't kick a goal until the 6th minute of the THIRD QUARTER.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. They are one dodgy shoulder (Judd's) away from being a bottom 4 team.

Oh, and can anyone tell me why Judd can throw the ball away EVERYTIME he gets tackled and never get called for it? I don't think there was one legitimate disposal when held in a tackle by Chris Judd in that game, every one was with an open hand and one was even with an open hand after he placed the ball on the ground! (credit to the Adelaide midfield, but what's with the special treatment?)

Oh, and remember this the next time we play them, Marc Murphy is allowed to THROW the ball over the boundary line when under pressure. This is a consistent ump ruling now -- he did it not once, not twice, but THREE times in the match and was allowed to get away with it every time. Oh, and don't touch Kreuzer. The AFL has designated him an untouchable as well, and teams will give away a free kick if you so much as breathe on him.

I wonder how much Carlton pays the umpiring department in unmarked bills.

[comrade]

To all those who were saying that Carlton was any good --

What were you saying again? WHAT???????

I watched the game they played against the Crows, and the umps GAVE (and I mean GAVE) Carlton their first 6 goals (anyone else who watched this will agree with me), and they still sucked so badly that they didn't kick a goal until the 6th minute of the THIRD QUARTER.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. They are one dodgy shoulder (Judd's) away from being a bottom 4 team.

Oh, and can anyone tell me why Judd can throw the ball away EVERYTIME he gets tackled and never get called for it? I don't think there was one legitimate disposal when held in a tackle by Chris Judd in that game, every one was with an open hand and one was even with an open hand after he placed the ball on the ground! (credit to the Adelaide midfield, but what's with the special treatment?)

Oh, and remember this the next time we play them, Marc Murphy is allowed to THROW the ball over the boundary line when under pressure. This is a consistent ump ruling now -- he did it not once, not twice, but THREE times in the match and was allowed to get away with it every time. Oh, and don't touch Kreuzer. The AFL has designated him an untouchable as well, and teams will give away a free kick if you so much as breathe on him.

I wonder how much Carlton pays the umpiring department in unmarked bills.

That's a lot of Carlton hate for one post - I knew I liked you for a reason :)

[bulldogsman]

To all those who were saying that Carlton was any good --

What were you saying again? WHAT???????

I watched the game they played against the Crows, and the umps GAVE (and I mean GAVE) Carlton their first 6 goals (anyone else who watched this will agree with me), and they still sucked so badly that they didn't kick a goal until the 6th minute of the THIRD QUARTER.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. They are one dodgy shoulder (Judd's) away from being a bottom 4 team.

Oh, and can anyone tell me why Judd can throw the ball away EVERYTIME he gets tackled and never get called for it? I don't think there was one legitimate disposal when held in a tackle by Chris Judd in that game, every one was with an open hand and one was even with an open hand after he placed the ball on the ground! (credit to the Adelaide midfield, but what's with the special treatment?)

Oh, and remember this the next time we play them, Marc Murphy is allowed to THROW the ball over the boundary line when under pressure. This is a consistent ump ruling now -- he did it not once, not twice, but THREE times in the match and was allowed to get away with it every time. Oh, and don't touch Kreuzer. The AFL has designated him an untouchable as well, and teams will give away a free kick if you so much as breathe on him.

I wonder how much Carlton pays the umpiring department in unmarked bills.

Haha this was a great read ;)