We could do a lot worse than.....

[LostDoggy]

Sticking J.Grant in the forward line and leaving him there for a decent spell.

Many of our forwards are not doing their job, be it either offensively or defensively. Our half forward line is like trampoline and there is not enough pressure being applied to keep the ball in.

We seem to be doing OK with our clearance work yet we cannot seem to find our targets up forward and when the ball hits the deck it comes out like wild fire.

Why not stick J.Grant up in the Half forward line???? He is a very smart footballer who has proven that he will chase, harrass, tackle and run his way into a contest if he doesnt get the ball delivered to him, more than I can say for many of our senior blokes at the minute.

He may struggle, he may look lost out there, but there is only one way to learn this caper and thats by experience. Look at Josh Hill, he is by far our best forward this year and last year he was up and down like a yo yo, we all questioned him, but have a look at what a solid year of AFL footy has done for Josh.

Jarryd is a very smart footballer and will learn quickly. Given so many of our forwards are out of form, there can be no better time to put him in the team and leave him there to learn the game and he WILL end up getting touches. His ability to read the game is excellent, his timing is good and knows when to lead. Sure, he is still very slight but Josh hill aint gonna win the world strongst man comp any time soon either.

Same can be said for Stack, assuming he plays in the guts, surely Eagelton's time up and we introduce this young kid and take the leash of him!!

I'm really looking to Rodney Eade for leadership during this time and hope that those players that are out of form are not given an armchair ride and some of our future stars are given a shot at developing their game.

I know this looks like a really simplistic approach, however with so many players out of form and a few that are obviously carrying niggles, wouldn't it be the right time to add some spark and also some defensive pressure?

[Sedat]

Some good points there TAMA and have been discussed on various threads in recent weeks. I don't have the stats handy, but if we are not the worst team in the competition in the defensive key indicators inside forward 50, we'd have to be close. Opposition teams are rebounding off half back like it is a training drill ATM. Our lack of a lead-up forward whio demands the ball has been all too apparent as well - hopefully Murph will start to find some touch in the next few weeks and bring the rest of the forward line into the play. But in the meantime, Grant could really be used to assist in this area. He has great pace off the mark and sticky hands, but he does have an endurance query - will he make multiple leads for the oncoming midfielder or be just content with the one lead?

Hahn's defensive workrate has been extremely poor this season - this has normally been a strength of his in the past. He has lost his mojo without Murph riding shotgun alongside him. Johnno has never been great at the defensive chasing and harrassing of opposition defenders, and it's not really a great strength of Hill's yet either (although he is slowly improving in this area). Aker has done some harrasing and Harbrow has been used at the other end of the ground with mixed results. Minson doesn't do enough defensive work up forward either. All adds up to an armchair ride out of defence for the opposition, which normally allows for clean quality delivery into their forward 50 about 5 seconds later.

[LostDoggy]

Harbrow in defence as really hurt our defensive pressure up forward. Sedat, you've mentioned Hahn, I've also noticed in particular that Gia has almost fallen the edge of the earth in the last few weeks.

The only way that players like Hahn and Gia can play well is when they are working their asses off, once their output drops off, so does their performance. They cant do what Cooney does, cruise through and still get 30 odd touches. It seems our confidence is shot against the zone and these two are struggling big time in the forward line. Eagle isn't doing enough, Minson continues to keep Skipper out with very sub standard performances.

It makes perfect sense to me to bring in one or two players that can have a serious impact over a period of time. Cal Ward is still too small and cannot impose himself on the contest, I believe that Stack and Grant are ready to be included and to be left there for a prolonged period.

[Mofra]

Why not stick J.Grant up in the Half forward line???? He is a very smart footballer who has proven that he will chase, harrass, tackle and run his way into a contest if he doesnt get the ball delivered to him, more than I can say for many of our senior blokes at the minute.
I'm not sure he is fit enough to play across the HF line, even if he does have some of the naturally stickiest hands seen. Given our reliance on Johnno or "79kgs of grunt" Hill in the F50, I wouldn't mind giving Grant a decent stint in the forward line once he proves he's earned it.

Problem is, he hasn't been the guy banging the door down at Willy. Skipper has been in or near the bests every game so far, O'Keefe was pretty close last week, Ward performed well after his demotion as well. I would prefer we give guys senior time on merit.

[bornadog]

I'm not sure he is fit enough to play across the HF line, even if he does have some of the naturally stickiest hands seen. Given our reliance on Johnno or "79kgs of grunt" Hill in the F50, I wouldn't mind giving Grant a decent stint in the forward line once he proves he's earned it.

Problem is, he hasn't been the guy banging the door down at Willy. Skipper has been in or near the bests every game so far, O'Keefe was pretty close last week, Ward performed well after his demotion as well. I would prefer we give guys senior time on merit.

I agree, however, we never seem to do this with a tall. Why not stick Grant in the forward pocket and leave him there and he can learn on the job. Sometimes players just perform better at a higher level, when they are surrounded by elite footballers not hacks at VFL level.

I remember an amazing season in 1990 when Wheeler decided to stick two 17 year old skinny kids in the team. Of Course one was a freak and the other almost.

Name the last young tall player who spent more than 60% of game time in the forward line for more than one week?

[Mofra]

Name the last young tall player who spent more than 60% of game time in the forward line for more than one week?
Will Minson :eek:

I'm not sure our failure to develop a tall is based entirely on problems at senior level - we had Podsiadly at Werribee dominate the F50 arc for years during our affiliation there, and I always felt this hurt us on some level.

The other problem I feel is this tendancy to develop young talls in the back half to teach them defensive skills. Lake may be a gun FB, but who knows what would have happened if he was developed differently?
Tiller is another perfect example - showed a bit as a forward, sent back, and now when we are struggling forward he's never even tried there, even when defensive pressure is lacking and we know he'd provide it (I am a fan of his hardness at the ball & 1%ers).

[LostDoggy]

I agree, however, we never seem to do this with a tall. Why not stick Grant in the forward pocket and leave him there and he can learn on the job. Sometimes players just perform better at a higher level, when they are surrounded by elite footballers not hacks at VFL level.

I remember an amazing season in 1990 when Wheeler decided to stick two 17 year old skinny kids in the team. Of Course one was a freak and the other almost.

Name the last young tall player who spent more than 60% of game time in the forward line for more than one week?

I agree 100% - well said. Hawthorn gave buddy and roughy time to find there feet and now they are in both going great guns. Give these guys an opportunity to show everyone what they can do!

[The Underdog]

Sticking J.Grant in the forward line and leaving him there for a decent spell.

Many of our forwards are not doing their job, be it either offensively or defensively. Our half forward line is like trampoline and there is not enough pressure being applied to keep the ball in.

We seem to be doing OK with our clearance work yet we cannot seem to find our targets up forward and when the ball hits the deck it comes out like wild fire.

Why not stick J.Grant up in the Half forward line???? He is a very smart footballer who has proven that he will chase, harrass, tackle and run his way into a contest if he doesnt get the ball delivered to him, more than I can say for many of our senior blokes at the minute.

He may struggle, he may look lost out there, but there is only one way to learn this caper and thats by experience. Look at Josh Hill, he is by far our best forward this year and last year he was up and down like a yo yo, we all questioned him, but have a look at what a solid year of AFL footy has done for Josh.

Jarryd is a very smart footballer and will learn quickly. Given so many of our forwards are out of form, there can be no better time to put him in the team and leave him there to learn the game and he WILL end up getting touches. His ability to read the game is excellent, his timing is good and knows when to lead. Sure, he is still very slight but Josh hill aint gonna win the world strongst man comp any time soon either.

Same can be said for Stack, assuming he plays in the guts, surely Eagelton's time up and we introduce this young kid and take the leash of him!!

I'm really looking to Rodney Eade for leadership during this time and hope that those players that are out of form are not given an armchair ride and some of our future stars are given a shot at developing their game.

I know this looks like a really simplistic approach, however with so many players out of form and a few that are obviously carrying niggles, wouldn't it be the right time to add some spark and also some defensive pressure?

I agree with the sentiment of your post. I'm in favour of sticking him in a FP for a run of at least 6-7 games to try and adjust to senior football. However he isn't going to be some sort of quick fix if anyone is thinking that. The 3/4 I saw from him at Willy last week was fine from a tackling and chasing perspective but his leading and marking needed a tonne of work, not to mention his kicking at goal which unfortunately reminded me of Richo above anyone else. He's a long term prospect and needs to be given time in the seniors but also can't be left there for the season just because he's tall. His form needs to warrant it.

[Sedat]

I agree with the sentiment of your post. I'm in favour of sticking him in a FP for a run of at least 6-7 games to try and adjust to senior football. However he isn't going to be some sort of quick fix if anyone is thinking that. The 3/4 I saw from him at Willy last week was fine from a tackling and chasing perspective but his leading and marking needed a tonne of work, not to mention his kicking at goal which unfortunately reminded me of Richo above anyone else. He's a long term prospect and needs to be given time in the seniors but also can't be left there for the season just because he's tall. His form needs to warrant it.
I'd hate to see him used in the Jon Brown 'kick it on his head 20 metres out' style because he is not equipped to handle that at present. But I'd love to see him used as a conduit between midfield and the forward 50, someone who can burn off his opponent on a hard lead, clunk the mark and then dish off to the oncoming traffic. If the first 6 rounds has taught us anything it is that Bob Murphy is structurally our most important player, and his absence/slow recovery from injury has robbed us of our key lead-up target for the midfield to spot up. Imagine how unpredictable it would be to have two lead-up forwards that the opposition will have to keep a close eye on.

The comments about certain players actually playing better in a higher standard is very valid. Franklin was hammered in a VFL match in his 2nd year at the club when matched up on Dean Polo. A few weeks later Franklin kicked a bag in a match in Tassie and he hasn't looked back since.

[Scorlibo]

but his leading and marking needed a tonne of work

What? These are his two best attributes.

[Mantis]

Agree with much of the OP.

I think it was pretty poor that he was given just one game to show his worth. I would like the match committee have a little faith in their selections and give newly promoted players 3 or 4 games so they become accustomed to the pace of the game, etc.

Hopefully when he gets his next opportunity his team-mates will be able to give him some confidence by passing the ball to him when he is open to make him feel part of the team. It can be pretty demoralising when you run around busting your butt and know-one seems to notice you.

[comrade]

Agree with much of the OP.

I think it was pretty poor that he was given just one game to show his worth. I would like the match committee have a little faith in their selections and give newly promoted players 3 or 4 games so they become accustomed to the pace of the game, etc.

Hopefully when he gets his next opportunity his team-mates will be able to give him some confidence by passing the ball to him when he is open to make him feel part of the team. It can be pretty demoralising when you run around busting your butt and know-one seems to notice you.

Or even worse – your team mates do notice you but have such little faith that they would rather bomb it long to a 2 on 1 scenario over and over again.

[LostDoggy]

Agree with much of the OP.

I think it was pretty poor that he was given just one game to show his worth. I would like the match committee have a little faith in their selections and give newly promoted players 3 or 4 games so they become accustomed to the pace of the game, etc.

Hopefully when he gets his next opportunity his team-mates will be able to give him some confidence by passing the ball to him when he is open to make him feel part of the team. It can be pretty demoralising when you run around busting your butt and know-one seems to notice you.

Good point. Grant was ignored on various occasions during his debut game, his team mates had numerous opportunities to play him in and didn't.

He cannot do any worse than some of our forwards at the moment, who aren't getting the ball and not chasing to put pressure on. I agree with Sedat that he musn't be used as a bomb long option, but more in the vein of a bob murphy lead up type. His contested marking will come more from side on rather than standing his ground, so popping it on top of his head won't work, not until he fills out anyways.

[Jasper]

Sticking J.Grant in the forward line and leaving him there for a decent spell.


Sorry for only quoting a small portion of a great post but Grant isn't fit enough for a decent spell in the seniors and from what I have heard we would just increase the risk of injuries. If he plays five to seven games for the season then that will be just as good for him.

[MrMahatma]

Sorry for only quoting a small portion of a great post but Grant isn't fit enough for a decent spell in the seniors and from what I have heard we would just increase the risk of injuries. If he plays five to seven games for the season then that will be just as good for him.
I don't buy this.

Is Cooney match fit at the moment? No
Is Murphy match fit at the moment? No
Is Josh Hill any more physically developed to have the likes of Darren Glass stand on him? No

Eade seems very reluctant to try and play the one kid who could actually add a new dimension to our team and fill a very wide gap.

I do get frustrated that kids have to play a month of good games in the reserves to get one crack at the seniors, whilst others get a free ride in the seniors.

[Mofra]

I do get frustrated that kids have to play a month of good games in the reserves to get one crack at the seniors, whilst others get a free ride in the seniors.
Exactly, and Garnt's efforts in his senior game (lack of second leads, not running past the ball carrier after disposal etc.) would clearly be against team rules and he should not be rewarded for that. His lacklustre effort in his first game back for Willy shouldn't be rewarded.

Skipper has been busting a gut, why not give him a go? Surely he could play Hahn's role.

[GVGjr]

I don't buy this.

Is Cooney match fit at the moment? No
Is Murphy match fit at the moment? No
Is Josh Hill any more physically developed to have the likes of Darren Glass stand on him? No

Eade seems very reluctant to try and play the one kid who could actually add a new dimension to our team and fill a very wide gap.


Cooney has been around the scene a lot more, same as Murphy and they both know how to work there way through injuries. I agree with Japser, we run a bigger risk of not getting Grant through the season if he has an extended run for the Bulldogs. 2 games here and there will do him more good than harm.
Having seen Grant play at least 6 times this year, I know he isn't fit enough.

[BulldogBelle]

Good point. Grant was ignored on various occasions during his debut game, his team mates had numerous opportunities to play him in and didn't.

He cannot do any worse than some of our forwards at the moment, who aren't getting the ball and not chasing to put pressure on. I agree with Sedat that he musn't be used as a bomb long option, but more in the vein of a bob murphy lead up type. His contested marking will come more from side on rather than standing his ground, so popping it on top of his head won't work, not until he fills out anyways.



Was Grant ignored due to his youth, or due to his poor kicking for goal in the NAB Cup games (or even at training)?

Wonder if Lake be ignored up forward due to his poor displays (3-4 set shots in the F50 this year)?

Grant needs time to develop, and wont develop if his is matched up on Scarlett or bigger bodied full backs ie Presti, Merrett etc. If the biggest and badest opposition teams full back gets played on him in the FP he will get smashed (physically), and his confidence will as well.

Best option for Grant is a FP role when a Minson/Skipper/Lake/Hahn is next to him to 'protect' him or play him as a lead up forward on the HFF, where his can use his zip to lead for marks and apply defensive pressure.

[bornadog]

Will Minson

Not 60% of game time in forward line? So keep guessing.

[MrMahatma]

Was Grant ignored due to his youth, or due to his poor kicking for goal in the NAB Cup games (or even at training)?

Wonder if Lake be ignored up forward due to his poor displays (3-4 set shots in the F50 this year)?

Grant needs time to develop, and wont develop if his is matched up on Scarlett or bigger bodied full backs ie Presti, Merrett etc. If the biggest and badest opposition teams full back gets played on him in the FP he will get smashed (physically), and his confidence will as well.

Best option for Grant is a FP role when a Minson/Skipper/Lake/Hahn is next to him to 'protect' him or play him as a lead up forward on the HFF, where his can use his zip to lead for marks and apply defensive pressure.
I think it's just an excuse. We've had Hill on Glass a few weeks ago. He's playing out of the square as much as anyone currently.

I understand you don't want kids to get hurt, but playing out of the goalsquare is probably one of the 'safest' areas on the ground.

If he's broken team rules, that's another story, but I don't see why we wouldn't be playing Grant & Everritt at every opportunity. It's called fast-tracking them - something we've never done well with talls, if at all.

[Rocket Science]

Whoever's up forward for us there's a fundamental disconnect between our forwards and our mids, with the failings of each unit compounding those of the other.

The mids look increasingly skittish by foot as to who they kick to and in what situations. We're not only struggling horribly for marking targets, but our forward (frontal, dare I say) pressure's been non-existent once the pill hits the deck, and the last thing the mids want to see again is the ball rebounding as quickly as it went in and flying straight back past them again en route to the other end. (It wouldn't hurt if they applied more pressure themselves when not in possession, but it's likewise difficult to defend through the middle against a team on the rebound granted time to use the ball through lack of forward pressure).

It's obvious our mids lack confidence in any of our forwards winning a contest inside forward 50. This naturally causes varying degrees of hesitation/indecision, playing directly into the hands of opponents applying midfield pressure (hello league-leaders in turnovers resulting in goals), and too frequently results in desperate, half-baked or hurried forward-50 entries, playing directly into the hands of rebounding defenders who consistently outnumber and outwork our forwards.

Of course, the more our mids hesitate, the harder it is for our forwards to become and remain open. It's become a vicious cycle which saps the werewithall and confidence (both in themselves and eachother) of both units.

Throw in our currently poor disposal efficiency, the fact that we've lacked our most integral forward cog in Murphy, and general poor form across the board, and the results so far are there for all to see.

A lot of this simply re-emphasizes how vital a fit and firing Cooney and Murphy are to us, particularly against good quality opposition, but it's been something of a shock to see just how much we've floundered in their absence, and what few reliable contingencies we seem to have right now.

[bornadog]

Whoever's up forward for us there's a fundamental disconnect between our forwards and our mids, with the failings of each unit compounding those of the other.

The mids look increasingly skittish by foot as to who they kick to and in what situations. We're not only struggling horribly for marking targets, but our forward (frontal, dare I say) pressure's been non-existent once the pill hits the deck, and the last thing the mids want to see again is the ball rebounding as quickly as it went in and flying straight back past them again en route to the other end. (It wouldn't hurt if they applied more pressure themselves when not in possession, but it's likewise difficult to defend through the middle against a team on the rebound granted time to use the ball through lack of forward pressure).

It's obvious our mids lack confidence in any of our forwards winning a contest inside forward 50. This naturally causes varying degrees of hesitation/indecision, playing directly into the hands of opponents applying midfield pressure (hello league-leaders in turnovers resulting in goals), and too frequently results in desperate, half-baked or hurried forward-50 entries, playing directly into the hands of rebounding defenders who consistently outnumber and outwork our forwards.

Of course, the more our mids hesitate, the harder it is for our forwards to become and remain open. It's become a vicious cycle which saps the werewithall and confidence (both in themselves and eachother) of both units.

Throw in our currently poor disposal efficiency, the fact that we've lacked our most integral forward cog in Murphy, and general poor form across the board, and the results so far are there for all to see.

A lot of this simply re-emphasizes how vital a fit and firing Cooney and Murphy are to us, particularly against good quality opposition, but it's been something of a shock to see just how much we've floundered in their absence, and what few reliable contingencies we seem to have right now.

Well written RS. I agree a good example of how important Cooney and Murphy are to the team can be seen in our last 7 games of 2008 when both were restricted with injury and were not on fire like when we were undefeated for 15 or so games.

[Mofra]

Not 60% of game time in forward line? So keep guessing.
You don't think in any game in the past 3 years that Will has clocked up 60% or more time in the forwardline? Disagree, Will has had plenty of opportunity as the resting ruckman to make the forwardline his own, especially since Ben Hudson has come to the club.

[LostDoggy]

Whoever's up forward for us there's a fundamental disconnect between our forwards and our mids, with the failings of each unit compounding those of the other.

The mids look increasingly skittish by foot as to who they kick to and in what situations. We're not only struggling horribly for marking targets, but our forward (frontal, dare I say) pressure's been non-existent once the pill hits the deck, and the last thing the mids want to see again is the ball rebounding as quickly as it went in and flying straight back past them again en route to the other end. (It wouldn't hurt if they applied more pressure themselves when not in possession, but it's likewise difficult to defend through the middle against a team on the rebound granted time to use the ball through lack of forward pressure).

It's obvious our mids lack confidence in any of our forwards winning a contest inside forward 50. This naturally causes varying degrees of hesitation/indecision, playing directly into the hands of opponents applying midfield pressure (hello league-leaders in turnovers resulting in goals), and too frequently results in desperate, half-baked or hurried forward-50 entries, playing directly into the hands of rebounding defenders who consistently outnumber and outwork our forwards.

Of course, the more our mids hesitate, the harder it is for our forwards to become and remain open. It's become a vicious cycle which saps the werewithall and confidence (both in themselves and eachother) of both units.

Throw in our currently poor disposal efficiency, the fact that we've lacked our most integral forward cog in Murphy, and general poor form across the board, and the results so far are there for all to see.

A lot of this simply re-emphasizes how vital a fit and firing Cooney and Murphy are to us, particularly against good quality opposition, but it's been something of a shock to see just how much we've floundered in their absence, and what few reliable contingencies we seem to have right now.

We are carrying too many passengers into aour games ATM and while we are tyring to play Coons and Murph back into some form it's important that the other guys on the park are throwing everything they have at the contest.

This is not happening, our guys are shit scared at taking risks and as a result a fair few of them have completely lost their way and need to either ship right up or make way for some younger guys who are gonna chase, tackle and at least create some pressure. pressure creates turnovers, turnovers creats opportunities!!

[LostDoggy]

Jarryd's namesake was thrown into the deep end as a 17 year old and whilst the analogy isn't quite the same - the only way you find out if a player can handle it is by giving them a stretch of games.

[Mofra]

Jarryd's namesake was thrown into the deep end as a 17 year old and whilst the analogy isn't quite the same - the only way you find out if a player can handle it is by giving them a stretch of games.
Chris Grant had form on the board during the pre-season, and prefformed at senior level. Jarrad simply didn't perform at senior level, and dropped his head very quickly, second efforts weren;t up to scratch, etc.

Eade said a while back that he isn't going to play a tall for the sake of going tall, they must be able to add something to the team. I agree with him.

[bornadog]

You don't think in any game in the past 3 years that Will has clocked up 60% or more time in the forwardline? Disagree, Will has had plenty of opportunity as the resting ruckman to make the forwardline his own, especially since Ben Hudson has come to the club.

Ok, I am not going to argue here about Will as I can't prove it, its just a perception.

My initial point is that we don't seem to take a risk and keep a young tall in the goal square for a whole game for many weeks and give the kid a go.

[LostDoggy]

Chris Grant had form on the board during the pre-season, and prefformed at senior level. Jarrad simply didn't perform at senior level, and dropped his head very quickly, second efforts weren;t up to scratch, etc.

Eade said a while back that he isn't going to play a tall for the sake of going tall, they must be able to add something to the team. I agree with him.

He is a top 5 pick, at some stage we have to bite the bullet with this kid and back our decision to take him so highly.

We played Cal Ward for a string of consecutive games, he did not set the world on fire, but I can guarantee you that the experience of playing league footy will triple the speed of his development than if he just stayed at Willy.

Eade made the decision to bite the bullet and play him, so he must be dedicated to giving him more than one game every 6 weeks, that serves the kid and the club no purpose.

Cause I can tell you this, I would rather a bloke drop the mark, put his head down his ass up and chase the house down to create some pressure, than someone who expects pin point service and is not willing to work hard the other way.

Grant will make mistakes and he will miss shots, but the only way to breed that confidence back into him is for his team mates to play him in at every realistic opportunity, help him believe that he belongs. Give him a watershed game rather than him having to feel like he has to search for every possesion, this will only create more pressure on the kid.

[strebla]

The big difference here is that C Grant was a superstar and was only given a game as A Cambell and P O'Keefe were both injured Chris played in round 1 and from memory kicked 5 which kept in the side for most of the year! we needa little perspective here people let the boy develop but don't throw him to the wolves too early

[Mofra]

He is a top 5 pick, at some stage we have to bite the bullet with this kid and back our decision to take him so highly.


Cause I can tell you this, I would rather a bloke drop the mark, put his head down his ass up and chase the house down to create some pressure, than someone who expects pin point service and is not willing to work hard the other way.
So what is your proposal? As much as he is viewed through rose coloured glasses, Grant was not very good in his debut, and his lack of effort in the second half could not have been rewarded with another game, whilst 21 other blokes were putting in more effort.

He is simply not fit enough nor developed enough to make an impact at AFL level yet, and will need time to get both his body & his head right. I'd hate to think we would have cut Peter Foster at 19,20 or 21 years of age because he wasn't a star yet. Patience is a virtue.

[LostDoggy]

So what is your proposal? As much as he is viewed through rose coloured glasses, Grant was not very good in his debut, and his lack of effort in the second half could not have been rewarded with another game, whilst 21 other blokes were putting in more effort.


Please... if we were judging all our players on one game then I can go and write a list of 10 players that fit every criteria on your list. At least Grant has an excuse, it was his first game and no doubt he will improve.

I dont think I stated anywhere that he will be cut if he is not good enough, I am saying that at age 21 it's time to help push his development along by giving him a prlonged spell in the seniors. As for his fitness, I bet you he can run longer and harder than Wil Minson ever could, so I don't think fitness is an issue.

[Mofra]

Please... if we were judging all our players on one game then I can go and write a list of 10 players that fit every criteria on your list. At least Grant has an excuse, it was his first game and no doubt he will improve.
But you are proposing we give gametime to someone who clearly doesn't deserve it, then propose we cut players who gets games when they don't deserve it. It has to be one or the other.


As for his fitness, I bet you he can run longer and harder than Wil Minson ever could, so I don't think fitness is an issue.
Minson has been playing a forward/ruck role at senior level, Grant a forward only role at a lower level. Unless this is a perception based only on size, I would expect Minson, who has done more pre-seasons an is playing a more physically demanding role than Grant currently, would have it all over Grant in terms of fitness. It is also worth noting that Grant was hampered for much of last year with OP, which would also menat he would have started the pre-season from further back in teh fitness stakes.

[Mantis]

Guys I have it on pretty good authority that Grant just isn't fit enough to play AFL yet.

Expect to only see him make brief appearances for the team until his body shape & fitness improves.

Short term pain for long term gain I feel.

[Rocco Jones]

Guys I have it on pretty good authority that Grant just isn't fit enough to play AFL yet.

Expect to only see him make brief appearances for the team until his body shape & fitness improves.

Short term pain for long term gain I feel.

That's a fair enough call. I think it's very easy to underestimate the fitness needed for playing AFL and the difference between AFL and VFL fitness levels.

[azabob]

Grant isn't ready yet, and the team isn't performing well enough with their decision making and disposal to help him get into games. Maybe if we were flying it would be a different story.

[Mofra]

Guys I have it on pretty good authority that Grant just isn't fit enough to play AFL yet.

Expect to only see him make brief appearances for the team until his body shape & fitness improves.

Short term pain for long term gain I feel.
I'd believe it, based purely on what I saw during the game. He simply couldn't link up the way AFL footballers should (though I would never doubt Mantis' sources ;)).

[1eyedog]

It was great to see endeavor in the first few minutes when he ran after and took Judd down. Great commitment. The lead and mark later that quarter was also encouraging

[Mofra]

It was great to see endeavor in the first few minutes when he ran after and took Judd down. Great commitment. The lead and mark later that quarter was also encouraging
It was, but after quarter time he simply didn't look up to it. Is a couple of pre-seasons away IMO from making an impact at senior level.