Round 9 Ins and Outs Vs Geelong

[becmatty]

Murphy is a huge loss going into the game against Geelong who will regain Ablettttttttttt.

Two certain returns for the doggies at least.

In: Hargreave, Higgins
Out: Murphy and ???

[becmatty]

I'd say the players under the microscope will be Addison, Everitt and Williams.

[whythelongface]

Cooney may also be out for contacting one of the umps.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Surely he will only cop a fine for that?

[AndrewP6]

Surely he will only cop a fine for that?

He'd get a reward if it was up to me...:)

[whythelongface]

Surely he will only cop a fine for that?

You'd like to think so but you never know.

[GVGjr]

Murphy is a huge loss going into the game against Geelong who will regain Ablettttttttttt.

Two certain returns for the doggies at least.

In: Hargreave, Higgins
Out: Murphy and ???

Higgins might still doubtful from what I hear. Hargrave should be back. A few players under the pump at the moment but a host of decent options.

For the outs I'd consider either Williams or Everitt along with Murphy.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

He'd get a reward if it was up to me...:)

LOL!!!
You might've been handing out a fair amount of gold then today. I think 1 Dee's player collected an ump, and 2 Dogs I think either Cross/Boyd as well as Cooney?

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Outs: Murphy hammy, and will hold my breath to see how Tommy Gun pulls up.

In: O'Keefe (in the bests for Willy again today) & if Williams is out, then Hargrave who also featured in the Willy bests. If Williams is OK, then perhaps Addison would make way for Shaggy.

Higgins would be a definite, but GVGjr has indicated he may not come up.

[bulldog]

In Higgins Tiller Callan
Out Murphy Harbrow Everitt
Shaggy might be a couple away

[hujsh]

Outs: Murphy hammy, and will hold my breath to see how Tommy Gun pulls up.

In: O'Keefe (in the bests for Willy again today) & if Williams is out, then Hargrave who also featured in the Willy bests. If Williams is OK, then perhaps Addison would make way for Shaggy.

Higgins would be a definite, but GVGjr has indicated he may not come up.

Do you mean Tiller?

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Do you mean Tiller?

Sort of.. I initially had Tiller to come in...but then realised Shaggy more than likely be right to go..... and then didn't tidy up the rest of the post...... mark me down for a clanger!

[Rocco Jones]

OUT: Murphy, Addison, Everitt
IN: Hargrave, Higgins, Callan

Really hate dropping Everitt, but I am worried that the Cats might really dent his confidence. I would love to free up Everitt to play as a HBF/wing but the Cats have so many small forward options who could burn him.

With Chapman, S.Johnson, Stokes and Byrnes, if Callan doesn't play this week, he never will.

Tiller as my 'first' emergency.

[Dry Rot]

OUT: Cam Mooney from what I've read. Punched someone in the head trying to spoil, except no eyes for the ball, and the ball arrived 5 minutes later

[bulldogtragic]

OUT: Murphy, Addison, Everitt
IN: Hargrave, Higgins, Callan

Really hate dropping Everitt, but I am worried that the Cats might really dent his confidence. I would love to free up Everitt to play as a HBF/wing but the Cats have so many small forward options who could burn him.

With Chapman, S.Johnson, Stokes and Byrnes, if Callan doesn't play this week, he never will.

Tiller as my 'first' emergency.
Agree Tim Callan is a must.

O'keefe is knockng down the door, but i'm not sure Friday night against Geelong is the best time. Maybe it is, i dont know Rocket or the Kid.

Ward for a look in too.


It will be interesting to see if they bring in some more tall forward and stretch the backline?

[Mantis]

Agree Tim Callan is a must.

O"keefe is naging down the door, but i'm not sure riday night against Geelong is the best time. Maybe it is, i dont knoe Rocket or the Kid.

Ward for a look in too.


It wioll be interesting to see if they bring in some more tall forward amd stetch the backline?

How many beers did you have today?

[comrade]

How many beers did you have today?

Could also be a case of 'chunky finger' syndrome? :D

I know I suffer from it at times...

[bulldogtragic]

How many beers did you have today?
Submliminal messgaes and/or Freudian slips.

I will being yelled at/nagged about not paying attention whilst writing to this and ignoring something about something form the better half. My guess is dinner looking at the time. I don't know, i was trying to pay attention to you people, but my wife doesn't understand. The nerve.

But point taken, i dont want to drop my standards to BF style 'txting' language.

Now i know how Borgy felt when TCD was picking on him :)

[Mantis]

Could also be a case of 'chunky finger' syndrome? :D

I know I suffer from it at times...

I wouldn't have thought it would be too hard to proof read a 4 sentence post before you hit the submit button.

[bulldogtragic]

I wouldn't have thought it would be too hard to proof read a 4 sentence post before you hit the submit button.
It has been rectified and hope we can move past this.

[LostDoggy]

OUT: Cam Mooney from what I've read. Punched someone in the head trying to spoil, except no eyes for the ball, and the ball arrived 5 minutes later

I watched that game. Not a lot in the Mooney 'spoil' . Should be right to play

[The Coon Dog]

Just curious as to why some are calling for Tom Williams to be dropped? :confused:

I thought he was terrific today on Brad Miller. I'm not a big wrap for Miller but he's been quite good for Melbourne this year & today he was kept goal less by Tom.

[soupman]

Just curious as to why some are calling for Tom Williams to be dropped? :confused:

I thought he was terrific today on Brad Miller. I'm not a big wrap for Miller but he's been quite good for Melbourne this year & today he was kept goal less by Tom.

Tom is defending fine, but it seems his attacking side to his game is struggling this season. He hasn't taken many marks and hasn't created much from defence. He's similiar to Morris a couple of seasons ago. Stops his opponent but doesn't offer much offesnively. I'd like to see him improve in this area.

[mighty_west]

Tom is defending fine, but it seems his attacking side to his game is struggling this season. He hasn't taken many marks and hasn't created much from defence. He's similiar to Morris a couple of seasons ago. Stops his opponent but doesn't offer much offesnively. I'd like to see him improve in this area.

soupaman, who won the battle today, Williams or Miller?

Miller has been in terrific form.

[BulldogBelle]

With Hargrave out and Gilbee at HFF, our backline really struggled to create many creative forward thrusts

[bornadog]

In Hargrave

out Murphy

[comrade]

With Hargrave out and Gilbee at HFF, our backline really struggled to create many creative forward thrusts

I rate Addison and I think he will become an important player for us eventually, but he isn't creative. With Shaggy out, would it have been a better option to play Ward off a back flank and instruct him to run and carry and use his good foot skills, rather than play Addison who is a stopper more than a play maker?

[hujsh]

Just curious as to why some are calling for Tom Williams to be dropped? :confused:

I thought he was terrific today on Brad Miller. I'm not a big wrap for Miller but he's been quite good for Melbourne this year & today he was kept goal less by Tom.

As I said in the Slaps and Sledges thread he's falling into Sockeye's 'pre-20 games legend, post 20 games dud' rule.

[Remi Moses]

You are kidding me! thought he was good on Miller :rolleyes:

[The Underdog]

How long before Crossy comes under scrutiny?
He was awful today and hasn't been in great form all year. Not suggesting he'll get dropped but while Everitt and Harbrow get constantly mentioned for the chop at least they did their jobs today.

[1eyedog]

OUT: Cam Mooney from what I've read. Punched someone in the head trying to spoil, except no eyes for the ball, and the ball arrived 5 minutes later

Nothing in it. He tried to but missed.

[1eyedog]

As I said in the Slaps and Sledges thread he's falling into Sockeye's 'pre-20 games legend, post 20 games dud' rule.

Thought he held Miller well who was second behind Riewoldt for marks on the lead this season.

[LostDoggy]

I'd say the players under the microscope will be Addison, Everitt and Williams.

Williams beat his direct opponent today, won't get dropped.

[LostDoggy]

Tim Callan will be needed this week as the Cats have dangerous small forwards.

Depending on who is available I would consider - Hargrave, Higgins, Callan and Tiller as ins and the outs would consist of Murphy (inured) Everitt and Addison.

My guess is that there will be just two changes if Hargrave and Higgins are available.

[G-Mo77]

Gee Murphy is a cruel blow. He looked really good today before he went down.

I can only see one change

In Shaggy
Out Murphy

Is Callan even available? Tiller should be considered if Shaggy doesn't get up.

[Rocco Jones]

Is Callan even available? Tiller should be considered if Shaggy doesn't get up.

In the bests for Willy (not sure how valuable a guide that is). I think we should play Callan. The Cats have heaps of dangerous small forwards and if Callan is ever going to have a match up, it will be against his old side.

[LostDoggy]

In: Shaggy, Higgins
Out: Murphy, Harbrow

Harbrow out as he wasn't flash hot today. But maybe I'm just bias towards Everitt as I'm a big fan of his. I thought he did well today and I'd like to see him against the comps best.

[AndrewP6]

LOL!!!
You might've been handing out a fair amount of gold then today. I think 1 Dee's player collected an ump, and 2 Dogs I think either Cross/Boyd as well as Cooney?

Yep, I'd pay up for all of them if I had the dough...it'd be worth it...oh, to be a millionaire....hell, I'd be happy to be a thousandaire...:D

[LostDoggy]

No mention of dropping Picken. If he plays who will be his match up and is he capable of stopping him? Geelong have a lot of players we need to stop, is it better to attack than defend them?

[LostDoggy]

In: CAllan - to play his old club, will hopefully provide a bit of spark.
Shaggy
Higgins

Out: Murphy
Addison (knock to his knee)
Everitt

Before yesterday's game I thought we were a chance against the Cats - now I am not so confident:(

[Rocco Jones]

No mention of dropping Picken. If he plays who will be his match up and is he capable of stopping him? Geelong have a lot of players we need to stop, is it better to attack than defend them?

Heaps of options. He can pick up Ablett in a tag team effort with Boyd, like he did against Judd. He can also pick up Steve Johnson who is spending more time in the middle.

[BulldogBelle]

In
Tim Callan
Shaggy
Higgins


Out
Murphy
Addison
Everitt (if we play Morris, Callan, Shaggy, Harbrow and Gilbee back I dont really see a mid match up for him

I still think we need to explore someone who is going to make some better contests at CHF....Lake or Skipper...especially with Murp out....regardless that our strategy is fast movement in the forward line an occasional bomb will still go forward

Hahn is a flanker or pocket......he uses his bulk in a contest, but he raraly gets off the ground or puts his arms in the air

[soupman]

soupaman, who won the battle today, Williams or Miller?

Miller has been in terrific form.

Don't take it as me bagging Williams, calling for his omission, or saying he's not going to make it. I think he beat Miller well on the weekend. What I'm suggesting is that he doesn't seem to be as much of an attacking player as he has been in the past, even if thats just taking a couple of marks down back or backing himself to kick long. I'll repeat: By no means is he not playing well.

[Mofra]

In: Shaggy, Higgins
Out: Murphy, Harbrow.

I gave Harbrow votes for his game. Takes the opposition on which is the only way are going to beat Geelong.

[LostDoggy]

I gave Harbrow votes for his game. Takes the opposition on which is the only way are going to beat Geelong.

He gives me sweaty palms when he does though ;)

[mighty_west]

Don't take it as me bagging Williams, calling for his omission, or saying he's not going to make it. I think he beat Miller well on the weekend. What I'm suggesting is that he doesn't seem to be as much of an attacking player as he has been in the past, even if thats just taking a couple of marks down back or backing himself to kick long. I'll repeat: By no means is he not playing well.

Williams number one job is to keep his opponent in check, what comes after that will fluctuate given his background with very little AFL growing up, not being a natural footballer, unfrotunatly he got towelled up last week in that area, but came back EXTREMELY well against a more experienced player and a player very much in form in Miller, he did his job.

[LostDoggy]

According to Rockets press conference Higgins will be back next week...Shaggy maybe a chance, to be monitored..

Someone asked 'With murphy out will that open the door for Jarrad Grant to come in..?' Rocket said "Higgins will come in.." With a bit of a smirk...so not really giving much away.

If Callan was in our best @ Williamstown..we need him back.

In: Callan, Shaggy & Higgins
Out: Murphy & 2 Of Everitt/Addison/Harbrow

[LostDoggy]

Why is Harbrow one of the candidates to be dropped?
He is doing well in the BP, we also lack pace through the middle and if he moved upfield can help in this area.

[The Doctor]

In: Higgins, Hargrave, Stack

Out: Murphy, Picken, Giansiracusa

I know Gia won't get dropped but for me he is playing ordinary soft football. I've included Stack at his expense to try something different.

[Sockeye Salmon]

In: Higgins, Hargrave, Stack

Out: Murphy, Picken, Giansiracusa

I know Gia won't get dropped but for me he is playing ordinary soft football. I've included Stack at his expense to try something different.

That's absolute crap, John.

I gave Gia votes.

28 touches, 2 clangers. Game high 6 goal assists, team high 600 metres gained.

[AndrewP6]

That's absolute crap, John.

I gave Gia votes.

28 touches, 2 clangers. Game high 6 goal assists, team high 600 metres gained.

Agree, I thought he was OK..

[mighty_west]

In: Higgins, Hargrave, Stack

Out: Murphy, Picken, Giansiracusa

I know Gia won't get dropped but for me he is playing ordinary soft football. I've included Stack at his expense to try something different.

Whilst i have been harsh on Gia, you simply can;'t drop him against a side long Geelong, and his form has turned full circle since half time of the Adelaide game, the fact that he got alot of the ball yesterday, even though i was critical of some of his decision making just shows to me, that he isn't far away from getting back to his best.

[GVGjr]

Why is Harbrow one of the candidates to be dropped?
He is doing well in the BP, we also lack pace through the middle and if he moved upfield can help in this area.

I'm sure that I wouldn't drop him but for a guy that's given a lot of credit for his defensive efforts he didn't rack up a tackle yesterday. My main criticism of him though is that he often doesn't run to the areas where his team mates are moving to.

[mighty_west]

I'm sure that I wouldn't drop him but for a guy that's given a lot of credit for his defensive efforts he didn't rack up a tackle yesterday. My main criticism of him though is that he often doesn't run to the areas where his team mates are moving to.

Like i have posted, i like the way he seems to be given a licence to back himself, but the decision making has to improve, gets caught out a bit too easily at this stage and can just get through and bomb the ball in hope.

[Jasper]

Out: Murphy, hill, Addison, Picken

IN: Shaggy, higgins, Okeefe, Callan

Okeefe has to be played, he has to get reward for his effort

[Mantis]

Okeefe has to be played, he has to get reward for his effort

Why?

It's not like he has been best on ground consistently over the past month.

[Scorlibo]

Out: Murphy, Everitt, Addison
In: Higgins, Hargrave, Grant

I think with Murphy gone we need another lead up target and that could be Grant. He's the sort of kid who just might thrive on the big stage against the best side in the competition.

[BulldogBelle]

I'm sure that I wouldn't drop him but for a guy that's given a lot of credit for his defensive efforts he didn't rack up a tackle yesterday. My main criticism of him though is that he often doesn't run to the areas where his team mates are moving to.


Its funny that last year Harbrow was holding his tackles, and making quite a few of them (Barry Hall one stands in my memory)

Harbrow gives us some pace, and is proving to be quite versatile, and is gradually learning to not run around like a headless chook...we have to remember he is a junior/fringe player

[Mofra]

Out: Murphy, hill, Addison, Picken

IN: Shaggy, higgins, Okeefe, Callan

Okeefe has to be played, he has to get reward for his effort
Picken is needed - there will always be someone to do a job on in the Geelong side
Hill has looked our most dangerous forward in all bar 1 or 2 games this year.

I wasn't a fan of Addison's game yesterday - didn't hold his footing a couple of times, and doesn't get enough of the ball for a player who isn't playing a pure lock-down role. He seems like the type who really would gain value in finding form at Willy.

Shaggy & Higgins in for Murph & DFA - Tiller if Shaggy isn't right.

[LostDoggy]

In: Higgins, Hargrave, Stack

Out: Murphy, Picken, Giansiracusa

I know Gia won't get dropped but for me he is playing ordinary soft football. I've included Stack at his expense to try something different.

Did you watch the game?

[The Pie Man]

I figure that Tiller is being pegged as a HB, but any chance he can come in for Hahn and play forward? With Murphy out for the first month + of the season I imagine Eade thought it was too hard to give Hahn a rest, but with Welsh back and Tiller young/hungry/now fit and in the best for Willy, I'd give serious consideration to resting Mitch's rib.

Beauty of Tiller is his flexibility if he was to play forward - can switch to the backline if for example Andrejs is being beaten.

Williams was good on Saturday, full stop. I can see him taking Hawkins.

Hargrave was good on 'Stevie J' in the prelim, I would be very keen to get him back in to play this role again.

Callan will be right in the mix. Other than Murphy, I think Addison will be looked at. Picken lost Davey a bit on Saturday but to be fair it was his first ordinary one.

Some selection posers this week.

[hujsh]

I figure that Tiller is being pegged as a HB, but any chance he can come in for Hahn and play forward? With Murphy out for the first month + of the season I imagine Eade thought it was too hard to give Hahn a rest, but with Welsh back and Tiller young/hungry/now fit and in the best for Willy, I'd give serious consideration to resting Mitch's rib.

Beauty of Tiller is his flexibility if he was to play forward - can switch to the backline if for example Andrejs is being beaten.

Well Tiller was named forward and did get in the best so maybe it'll be considered.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Out: Murphy, Everitt, Addison
In: Higgins, Hargrave, Grant

I think with Murphy gone we need another lead up target and that could be Grant. He's the sort of kid who just might thrive on the big stage against the best side in the competition.

And that observation is based on what?

Wishing it doesn't make it so.

[LostDoggy]

In: Higgins Hargrave Callan

Out: Murphy Harbrow Picken

But would love to see Grant play

[alwaysadog]

And that observation is based on what?

Wishing it doesn't make it so.

I'm with you SS, rather than enjoying the big stage it could well put his development back several years because he has done nothing to show that this is a stage he is ready for.

[The Doctor]

That's absolute crap, John.

I gave Gia votes.

28 touches, 2 clangers. Game high 6 goal assists, team high 600 metres gained.

We obviously have different views on this Jim. Just because you gave him votes doesn't mean my opinion is as you've described.

I rarely use stats when assessing the performance of a player. My views are simply based on what I see out there. Sure it may be tough on a player with a high possession count but how many of those actually made a difference? I also take into account things like what they do off the ball, how hard they challenge in a contest. These are areas I feel he has been soft in. He certainly had a few mates out there v Melb.

I don't think it would hurt to shake up a few of our under performing senior players.

[Go_Dogs]

Good opportunity for Tiller to come in and play a lead up CHF role.

[Sockeye Salmon]

We obviously have different views on this Jim. Just because you gave him votes doesn't mean my opinion is as you've described.

I rarely use stats when assessing the performance of a player. My views are simply based on what I see out there. Sure it may be tough on a player with a high possession count but how many of those actually made a difference? I also take into account things like what they do off the ball, how hard they challenge in a contest. These are areas I feel he has been soft in. He certainly had a few mates out there v Melb.

I don't think it would hurt to shake up a few of our under performing senior players.

The 6 goal assists for starters.

[Desipura]

Gia will not get dropped, he did some good things but then there were those 2 cute scrubbers that he kicked from only 20 metres out, hardly something a leader would do.
If it was wet weather footy, you might consider kicking it along the ground.
We need to tinker with our game plan. We are a fair way off Geelong and St Kilda, if you do not change the rest of the pack will overtake you. Our precise kicking cannot be sustained against the better teams.

[azabob]

Gia will not get dropped, he did some good things but then there were those 2 cute scrubbers that he kicked from only 20 metres out, hardly something a leader would do.
If it was wet weather footy, you might consider kicking it along the ground.
We need to tinker with our game plan. We are a fair way off Geelong and St Kilda, if you do not change the rest of the pack will overtake you. Our precise kicking cannot be sustained against the better teams.

I agree, but we dont exactly have a tall forward who we can use as our get out of jail card. Eade obviously doesnt rate Lake, Tiller, Williams, Everitt, Wight or Skipper to be able to perform that role. And of the younger players they are not ready yet.

[bornadog]

Gia will not get dropped, he did some good things but then there were those 2 cute scrubbers that he kicked from only 20 metres out, hardly something a leader would do.
If it was wet weather footy, you might consider kicking it along the ground.
We need to tinker with our game plan. We are a fair way off Geelong and St Kilda, if you do not change the rest of the pack will overtake you. Our precise kicking cannot be sustained against the better teams.

I thought Gia played a great game on Saturday, including three magnificent passes to players in the 50 meres leading out. I also thought Harbrow was very good, so I doubt he will be dropped.

[Desipura]

I thought Gia played a great game on Saturday, including three magnificent passes to players in the 50 meres leading out. I also thought Harbrow was very good, so I doubt he will be dropped.
I did not say he would/should be dropped. Agree that Harbrow was very good.

[Scorlibo]

And that observation is based on what?

Wishing it doesn't make it so.


I'm with you SS, rather than enjoying the big stage it could well put his development back several years because he has done nothing to show that this is a stage he is ready for.

That's a stupid thing to say, "put his development back a few years", one game isn't going to do anywhere near that damage, instead it's more likely to make Grant bring his work rate to the required level after getting a taste for the big time.

You doubters only have to look back to the game against Adelaide when Taylor Walker stepped up and kicked 4 goals - while looking lost for all other games this season. Improvement will come if we give him a chance and we all saw what a better side we were with Murph there as a lead-up target.

[Mofra]

That's a stupid thing to say, "put his development back a few years", one game isn't going to do anywhere near that damage, instead it's more likely to make Grant bring his work rate to the required level after getting a taste for the big time.

Watchign his game a couple of weeks back, he looked lost, and couldn't run out individual passages of play, let alone a quarter. He simply doesn't look ready.


Zac Dawson didn't after too well when thrown to the wolves either - took years & a delisting before he was senior-ready again.

[Scorlibo]

Watchign his game a couple of weeks back, he looked lost, and couldn't run out individual passages of play, let alone a quarter. He simply doesn't look ready.


Zac Dawson didn't after too well when thrown to the wolves either - took years & a delisting before he was senior-ready again.

The difference being Grant has bucketloads of talent and Dawson has very little.

I'd like to see the number of players who had a poor first game but proved to be a great senior addition in their first/second season despite their apparent physical immaturuty. Look at Taylor Walker, Stephen Hill from this year.

[Sockeye Salmon]

That's a stupid thing to say, "put his development back a few years", one game isn't going to do anywhere near that damage, instead it's more likely to make Grant bring his work rate to the required level after getting a taste for the big time.

You doubters only have to look back to the game against Adelaide when Taylor Walker stepped up and kicked 4 goals - while looking lost for all other games this season. Improvement will come if we give him a chance and we all saw what a better side we were with Murph there as a lead-up target.

Taylor Walker kicked 60 goals for Norwood last year, he was ready to step up.

[Desipura]

In: Higgins, Tiller & Ward
Out: Murphy (inj), Everitt (inj) & Addison (inj)

[Mantis]

In: Higgins, Tiller & Ward
Out: Murphy (inj), Everitt (inj) & Addison (inj)

I didn't know those 2 were injured... What injuries do they have & has it been reported?

edit. Just saw article on Bulldogs website which contains the following:

"Robert [Murphy] is out and it looks as though Andrejs Everitt will miss with a foot problem, and Dylan Addison has a bit of a sore knee."

[Mofra]

I'd like to see the number of players who had a poor first game but proved to be a great senior addition in their first/second season despite their apparent physical immaturuty. Look at Taylor Walker, Stephen Hill from this year.
Two players that were playing (and dominating) senior football last year vs someone who spent half the year out with OP, who is a small framed KPP to boot?

Grant is odds on to become a good player, but I I don't think we'll see it this year.

[Go_Dogs]

In: Higgins, Tiller & Ward
Out: Murphy (inj), Everitt (inj) & Addison (inj)


I didn't know those 2 were injured... What injuries do they have & has it been reported?

edit. Just saw article on Bulldogs website which contains the following:

"Robert [Murphy] is out and it looks as though Andrejs Everitt will miss with a foot problem, and Dylan Addison has a bit of a sore knee."

Given that news, I'd say Desipura's selections look about right.

Tiller can add some flexibility down back, whilst Higgins and Ward can both play through the middle and up forward.

Wonder if Timmy Callan comes into the mix at all too?



Would love to see either one of Stack or O'Keefe get a game, but given the players who are in contention, they may have to wait a little while longer yet.

[LostDoggy]

Gia will not get dropped, he did some good things but then there were those 2 cute scrubbers that he kicked from only 20 metres out, hardly something a leader would do.
If it was wet weather footy, you might consider kicking it along the ground.
We need to tinker with our game plan. We are a fair way off Geelong and St Kilda, if you do not change the rest of the pack will overtake you. Our precise kicking cannot be sustained against the better teams.

You only just realized this?

Where were you in 2006?

[Scorlibo]

Taylor Walker kicked 60 goals for Norwood last year, he was ready to step up.

And wasn't Grant a multiple goal-kicker in every game last year before he got the dreaded OP? He would have kicked more than 60 if he wasn't injured.


Two players that were playing (and dominating) senior football last year vs someone who spent half the year out with OP, who is a small framed KPP to boot?

Grant is odds on to become a good player, but I I don't think we'll see it this year.

Hill wasn't dominating senior footy, and I don't think you could call Walker's season dominant either.

Grant doesn't have to set the world on fire, just do his bit. I get worried because every decent KPF in the AFL at the moment made some kind of impact in the AFL in their first two seasons. It's all well and good for people to say, "he's developing, talls take time, he'll be a good player", and to some extent it's true, but it also fits into that mindset of mediocrity, "our premiership window will be soon, but not now".

[LostDoggy]

Agree Tim Callan is a must.

O'keefe is knockng down the door, but i'm not sure Friday night against Geelong is the best time. Maybe it is, i dont know Rocket or the Kid.

Ward for a look in too.


It will be interesting to see if they bring in some more tall forward and stretch the backline?

Umm, bulldogtragic, is everyone having a lend of you? I can't see any probs with your post, or do I just have rose-coloured glasses???:D

[LostDoggy]

It has been rectified and hope we can move past this.

Oops, I didn't read all the posts before I replied to your initial one :D Am I going have my wrists slapped too :p

[LostDoggy]

I watched that game. Not a lot in the Mooney 'spoil' . Should be right to play

I think he has priors, so has taken the week off - good for us:D

[Mofra]

Hill wasn't dominating senior footy, and I don't think you could call Walker's season dominant either.
Nope, he got a lucky promotion, got a taste, went back and had a cracker of a pre-season and then made progress. Comparing Hill to Grant, we're another year off for Grant to make and impact in that case.


Grant doesn't have to set the world on fire, just do his bit.
That's the problem, he can't even do his bit. In the third(?) quarter he handballed, and didn't even run past the ball carrier because he was stuffed. Any other player would be dragged for that and forced to spend an extended period on the pine. If Eagleton or Gia did it, half the board would want them delisted.


I get worried because every decent KPF in the AFL at the moment made some kind of impact in the AFL in their first two seasons. It's all well and good for people to say, "he's developing, talls take time, he'll be a good player", and to some extent it's true, but it also fits into that mindset of mediocrity, "our premiership window will be soon, but not now".
Plenty don't make an impact. Do you think Geelong will delist Lonergan or Hawkins if they can't cement a spot this year? Josh Kennedy looks like he will be a player but has struggled with injury. Lachie Hansen has had injury woes as well. Williams is only just establishing himself this year. Gumbleton will be given time at Essendon.
In any case, losing half a year it's virtually Grant's first year in development terms, and weight & fitness wise he looks like he's starting a fair way back on the field.

Peter Foster took years to cement a spot on the list, and he became the lynchpin of our defence at CHB. Some players just take time, and throwing them to the wolves when they are physically not ready, and other players are more deserving of a spot, doesn't help us IMO.

[BulldogBelle]

Out
Murph (inj), Addison (inj), Everitt (inj)

In
Callan, Higgins, Shaggy (if fit) or Tiller (for Everitt only if Shaggy isnt 100%)

[LostDoggy]

Peter Foster took years to cement a spot on the list, and he became the lynchpin of our defence at CHB. Some players just take time, and throwing them to the wolves when they are physically not ready, and other players are more deserving of a spot, doesn't help us IMO.

Us doggies supporters are an impatient lot - been a while since the dogs won a Premiership ;)

[Scorlibo]

Nope, he got a lucky promotion, got a taste, went back and had a cracker of a pre-season and then made progress. Comparing Hill to Grant, we're another year off for Grant to make and impact in that case.


That's the problem, he can't even do his bit. In the third(?) quarter he handballed, and didn't even run past the ball carrier because he was stuffed. Any other player would be dragged for that and forced to spend an extended period on the pine. If Eagleton or Gia did it, half the board would want them delisted.


Plenty don't make an impact. Do you think Geelong will delist Lonergan or Hawkins if they can't cement a spot this year? Josh Kennedy looks like he will be a player but has struggled with injury. Lachie Hansen has had injury woes as well. Williams is only just establishing himself this year. Gumbleton will be given time at Essendon.
In any case, losing half a year it's virtually Grant's first year in development terms, and weight & fitness wise he looks like he's starting a fair way back on the field.

Peter Foster took years to cement a spot on the list, and he became the lynchpin of our defence at CHB. Some players just take time, and throwing them to the wolves when they are physically not ready, and other players are more deserving of a spot, doesn't help us IMO.

We're not talking about the same Hill Mofra, I'm talking about Stephen Hill.

Lonergan I don't consider decent, Hawkins kicked a few bags early on in his career and Hansen has shown plenty.

Again judging many players on one game they were hacks, but many of those many players went on to play really good debut seasons.

[Mofra]

We're not talking about the same Hill Mofra, I'm talking about Stephen Hill
My bad. He is a small (not KPP) who dominated at senior level prior to being drafted, which is more than a skinny KPP having a few good TAC Cup games then spending half a year playing so so at VFL level.


Lonergan I don't consider decent, Hawkins kicked a few bags early on in his career and Hansen has shown plenty.
Longergan is better than any KPP forward on our list at the moment.
Hawkins is inconsistent, but has a far better developed body than Grant.
Hansen showed glimpses, but again 3+ years in the system until (injuries aside) he's cemented a spot in the Roos best 22.


Again judging many players on one game they were hacks, but many of those many players went on to play really good debut seasons.
Many do - but most of them are midfielders, and even then they generally have fairly well developed bodies and fitness bases, of which Grant appears to have neither (yet)

[Go_Dogs]

And wasn't Grant a multiple goal-kicker in every game last year before he got the dreaded OP? He would have kicked more than 60 if he wasn't injured.



and I don't think you could call Walker's season dominant either.

Fair stretch on both calls IMO. Grant played a few ok games last year, but is a fair way away from kicking the big bags you need to to kick 60 goals. That's 3 a game.


Walker's season, whilst perhaps not dominant, was very, very good. He tore many sides apart including kicking 7 in an elimination final. He finished up second on the goal kicking list for the SANFL.

He's from Broken Hill so had experience against men, a stronger body, and is probably quicker and more agile than Grant too. He's going to be a pretty special player, and at the moment, is miles ahead of Grant.

[Desipura]

You only just realized this?

Where were you in 2006?
Have you got a clue? I mean it seriously.

We finished 3rd last year, bad kicking along with a lack of kpp up forward and the result in the prelim may have been different. It is well known that we lack a few key position players (has been for years now). You cannot just throw a young tall in the seniors and your problem is solved. We finally have Williams playing which frees up one of him or Lake to play forward occasionally. This weeks game provides that opportunity.

Can you tell me how you would change the makeup of the side seeing as you are apparently the first person who has acknowledged our game plan cannot be sustained against the better sides in big games?

[Mantis]

FWIW I would go with the following changes:

In: Callan, Hargrave, Higgins

Out: Addison, Everitt, Murphy (all inj.)

[The Coon Dog]

FWIW I would go with the following changes:

In: Callan, Hargrave, Higgins

Out: Addison, Everitt, Murphy (all inj.)

Pretty much concur with that. I'm a bit worried that Shaggy wont come up. If he doesn't do you think Tiller will come in?

[Mantis]

Pretty much concur with that. I'm a bit worried that Shaggy wont come up. If he doesn't do you think Tiller will come in?

Yep, he would be the logical replacement and after his layoff due to his groin troubles he looks to have regained some touch going on his reported performance last week.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Hopefully Callan can be a spark for the team - he attacks the ball like few other

[Sockeye Salmon]

Pretty much concur with that. I'm a bit worried that Shaggy wont come up. If he doesn't do you think Tiller will come in?

I agree with those 3 changes as well, but if Shaggy doesn't get up and Tiller comes in, it would only be as a defender, so who does he play on?

[LostDoggy]

Won't matter who we bring in, we're gonna get arse raped.

Gia should be dropped. Softer than fairy floss. Any suggestion by anyone here that he is a "future captain" is good comedic value, but that's about it.

[Mantis]

I agree with those 3 changes as well, but if Shaggy doesn't get up and Tiller comes in, it would only be as a defender, so who does he play on?

He would have to play on either Johnson or Chapman who would have been Shaggy's likely opponent.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Won't matter who we bring in, we're gonna get arse raped.

Gia should be dropped. Softer than fairy floss. Any suggestion by anyone here that he is a "future captain" is good comedic value, but that's about it.

You're a tool

[LostDoggy]

Ailse 3, near the vitamins. There's a bottled product called REALITY that you need to purchase.

I recommend downing the whole ****ing thing in one go.

[comrade]

Ailse 3, near the vitamins. There's a bottled product called REALITY that you need to purchase.

I recommend downing the whole ****ing thing in one go.

Is that really neccessary?

[LostDoggy]

Ailse 3, near the vitamins. There's a bottled product called REALITY that you need to purchase.

I recommend downing the whole ****ing thing in one go.

Maybe you should and then buy a pair of glasses and watch a game and then come back and point out the times Gia has backed out of a contest.

I agree he may not be the hardest of them all but he goes when it is his turn and that is all you can ask

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Won't matter who we bring in, we're gonna get arse raped.

Gia should be dropped. Softer than fairy floss. Any suggestion by anyone here that he is a "future captain" is good comedic value, but that's about it.

Dante, opinions are one thing, but it's about how you present them. This is an A grade example of how not to post on Woof.

If you're after baiting people, or have a need to just hurl unsubstantiated tripe and abuse toward a player then there are other sites that can accomodate your needs.

[Remi Moses]

Got a feeling Stack will come in,with Addison and Everitt also having minor injuries.Honestly don't think anybody who plays this sport is soft,some are harder at the footy than others.
IN. Higgins,Stack,Callan
OUT. Murphy,Everitt,Addison

[The Pie Man]

I agree with those 3 changes as well, but if Shaggy doesn't get up and Tiller comes in, it would only be as a defender, so who does he play on?

Steve Johnson? It's a tough one (both the question and playing on 'Stevie J')

[Bulldog Revolution]

Got a feeling Stack will come in,with Addison and Everitt also having minor injuries.Honestly don't think anybody who plays this sport is soft,some are harder at the footy than others.
IN. Higgins,Stack,Callan
OUT. Murphy,Everitt,Addison

I'd be very pleased for Stack to debut in front of a big crowd for Friday night footy

[bornadog]

I'd be very pleased for Stack to debut in front of a big crowd for Friday night footy

Fitting for indigenous round as well. Where do you think he should play?

[LostDoggy]

I reckon a rebounding half back flanker - cats wouldn't give him any respect (yet), so he should have a bit of freedom to provide some run from the backline and spot up some targets up forward.

[Jasper]

I'd be very pleased for Stack to debut in front of a big crowd for Friday night footy

surely Okeefe deserves a game before Stack, he has been in our best at willi every week bar 1

[Ozza]

surely Okeefe deserves a game before Stack, he has been in our best at willi every week bar 1

I agree. Rewarding O'Keefe's consistently good performances is not only the right thing - but sends a positive message to the other Bulldogs at Willi.

O'Keefe's kicking will be a plus for us also.

[Mofra]

Won't matter who we bring in, we're gonna get arse raped.

Disagree. Every game is winnable for us. That attitude is "old Bulldogs loser mentality" that I abhor.


Gia should be dropped. Softer than fairy floss. Any suggestion by anyone here that he is a "future captain" is good comedic value, but that's about it.
Watch closely. Gia is actually quite hard at it, one of (if not) our best disposers of the ball in heavy traffic, was our top metres gained player vs Melbourne and is disciplined when running back in zone play.

Seems to me a perfect example of first season impressions tainting a player for the remainder of their career, regardless of what they do on field.

[Mantis]

I agree. Rewarding O'Keefe's consistently good performances is not only the right thing - but sends a positive message to the other Bulldogs at Willi.

O'Keefe's kicking will be a plus for us also.

Just not sure if O'Keefe would be able to keep up with the fast paced Cats.

Stack atleast has some real leg speed which would be helpful.

[Jasper]

Disagree. Every game is winnable for us. That attitude is "old Bulldogs loser mentality" that I abhor.


Watch closely. Gia is actually quite hard at it, one of (if not) our best disposers of the ball in heavy traffic, was our top metres gained player vs Melbourne and is disciplined when running back in zone play.

Seems to me a perfect example of first season impressions tainting a player for the remainder of their career, regardless of what they do on field.

I agree Mofra, as I said a few weeks ago Gia is at his best when played around the ball(in the middle or off a wing) not sat forward like he has been for large parts of the year. To label him as soft shows a complete lack of knowledge of footy and our team.

[LostDoggy]

I agree Mofra, as I said a few weeks ago Gia is at his best when played around the ball(in the middle or off a wing) not sat forward like he has been for large parts of the year. To label him as soft shows a complete lack of knowledge of footy and our team.

I think you could have stopped at complete lack of knowledge full-stop. :)

Aisle (that's how it's spelt in any case) 3 at my local carries honey and vegemite. Love the stuff.

[LostDoggy]

As a regular reader (but not so regular poster) I have to say its disappointing to see our posts degenerate into name calling. People have the right to opinions and people have the right to disagree, people also have the right to abuse other posters (but one thing that has set this board apart from BF in the past has been the lack of this in favour of interesting discussion). I can't help feeling the board is drifting into BF territory.

FTR I also think O'Keefe should get a look in this week over Ward (people who criticize O'Keefe's foot speed and call for Ward inclusion perplex me because Ward is the slower of the 2).

For mine: O'Keefe, Higgins and Callan replacing Murphy, Everitt and DFA


I think you could have stopped at complete lack of knowledge full-stop. :)

Aisle (that's how it's spelt in any case) 3 at my local carries honey and vegemite. Love the stuff.

[Go_Dogs]

As a regular reader (but not so regular poster) I have to say its disappointing to see our posts degenerate into name calling. People have the right to opinions and people have the right to disagree, people also have the right to abuse other posters (but one thing that has set this board apart from BF in the past has been the lack of this in favour of interesting discussion). I can't help feeling the board is drifting into BF territory.

FTR I also think O'Keefe should get a look in this week over Ward (people who criticize O'Keefe's foot speed and call for Ward inclusion perplex me because Ward is the slower of the 2).

For mine: O'Keefe, Higgins and Callan replacing Murphy, Everitt and DFA

The issue for me is swapping like for like. Hargrave, Everitt and Addison (although perhaps less this year) both play down back, O'Keefe doesn't, Higgins doesn't and Ward doesn't.

Callan does, Tiller does.

[bornadog]

Given the injuries then I think this will be the go:

Out: Murhpy, Addison and Everitt

In: Callan, Ward, Tiller.

[1eyedog]

Ailse 3, near the vitamins. There's a bottled product called REALITY that you need to purchase.

I recommend downing the whole ****ing thing in one go.

Back to BF with you Danny boy if you please. No room for that here mate.

[G-Mo77]

Given the injuries then I think this will be the go:

Out: Murhpy, Addison and Everitt

In: Callan, Ward, Tiller.

Probably will go that way when making the selections.

Although Ward's spot could go to a number of people. Stack? O'Keefe?

[mighty_west]

Ailse 3, near the vitamins. There's a bottled product called REALITY that you need to purchase.

I recommend downing the whole ****ing thing in one go.

Next time i buy myself a salad to go with a barby, we don't have to search far for a tosser.

[knowitall]

As a regular reader (but not so regular poster) I have to say its disappointing to see our posts degenerate into name calling. People have the right to opinions and people have the right to disagree, people also have the right to abuse other posters (but one thing that has set this board apart from BF in the past has been the lack of this in favour of interesting discussion). I can't help feeling the board is drifting into BF territory.

FTR I also think O'Keefe should get a look in this week over Ward (people who criticize O'Keefe's foot speed and call for Ward inclusion perplex me because Ward is the slower of the 2).

For mine: O'Keefe, Higgins and Callan replacing Murphy, Everitt and DFA

Fair enough you think O Keefe should get a look in over Ward this week, seeing as though O Keefe has been consistently good, but how you think O Keefe is quicker then Ward really surprises me. After watching all bar one game Willi has played this year, the way Ward can use his pace when his confidence is high is amazing. Yes, he plods along sometimes and looks slow, but when he gets going, he is not slow at all.

IMO OKeefe is not quick at all, but plays on at every cost. And that's what makes him loook quicker. Never do you see O Keefe run with the ball, or take people on by using his pace, like Ward does when he is playing well.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Fair enough you think O Keefe should get a look in over Ward this week, seeing as though O Keefe has been consistently good, but how you think O Keefe is quicker then Ward really surprises me. After watching all bar one game Willi has played this year, the way Ward can use his pace when his confidence is high is amazing. Yes, he plods along sometimes and looks slow, but when he gets going, he is not slow at all.

IMO OKeefe is not quick at all, but plays on at every cost. And that's what makes him loook quicker. Never do you see O Keefe run with the ball, or take people on by using his pace, like Ward does when he is playing well.

Ward easily outrun O'Keefe all pre-season, both in sprints and longer stuff.

[knowitall]

Ward easily outrun O'Keefe all pre-season, both in sprints and longer stuff.

20 metre sprint: Ward - 2.95 O Keefe - 3.01
3.2 kilometres: Ward - 11.16 O Keefe 11.46

[Sockeye Salmon]

20 metre sprint: Ward - 2.95 O Keefe - 3.01
3.2 kilometres: Ward - 11.16 O Keefe 11.46

Both of those figures for O'Keefe astonish me, especially the 3.2 km time. We were told O'Keefe was typically 4th last in the time trials beating home only Roughead, Hudson and Jones.

[LostDoggy]

Both of those figures for O'Keefe astonish me, especially the 3.2 km time. We were told O'Keefe was typically 4th last in the time trials beating home only Roughead, Hudson and Jones.

Thirty seconds is still a fair distance behind - more to the point, perhaps Ward's time isn't all that flash

[Mantis]

20 metre sprint: Ward - 2.95 O Keefe - 3.01
3.2 kilometres: Ward - 11.16 O Keefe 11.46

Are those figures from this past pre-season or from some other time? (Draft camp)

[Go_Dogs]

Given the injuries then I think this will be the go:

Out: Murhpy, Addison and Everitt

In: Callan, Ward, Tiller.

No room for Higgins BAD? :eek: ;)

[hujsh]

Just not sure if O'Keefe would be able to keep up with the fast paced Cats.

Stack atleast has some real leg speed which would be helpful.

They may move the ball quickly but in terms of leg speed they're no quicker than we are.

[Jasper]

Western Bulldogs
B: Jarrod Harbrow, Brian Lake, Tim Callan
HB: Lindsay Gilbee, Tom Williams, Dale Morris
C: Nathan Eagleton, Matthew Boyd, Daniel Cross
HF: Josh Hill, Mitch Hahn, Brad Johnson
F: Jason Akermanis, Will Minson, Scott Welsh
Foll: Ben Hudson, Adam Cooney, Ryan Griffen
I/C: Shaun Higgins, Daniel Giansiracusa, Liam Picken, Callan Ward
Emg: Brennan Stack, Stephen Tiller, Wayde Skipper

In: Callan, Higgins, Ward
Out: Robert Murphy (hamstring), Andrejs Everitt (foot), Dylan Addison (knee)

[bornadog]

Probably will go that way when making the selections.

Although Ward's spot could go to a number of people. Stack? O'Keefe?

I forgot about Higgins:o

[Sedat]

I forgot about Higgins:o
Is he a definite inclusion? We've had a late change every game so far this season.

[Go_Dogs]

Is he a definite inclusion? We've had a late change every game so far this season.

That's what I'm wondering too - found it a bit strange he's named on the interchange. Given the match is tomorrow night, might be a case of security in case he doesn't quite get up. Who really knows though, the selections all year have been very mysterious, which I don't mind.

[Mantis]

They may move the ball quickly but in terms of leg speed they're no quicker than we are.

Yeah, I was talking about ball movement.

[Jasper]

20 metre sprint: Ward - 2.95 O Keefe - 3.01
3.2 kilometres: Ward - 11.16 O Keefe 11.46


Both of those figures for O'Keefe astonish me, especially the 3.2 km time. We were told O'Keefe was typically 4th last in the time trials beating home only Roughead, Hudson and Jones.

This is 2009 data and and on top of that O'Keefe has improved by about 24 seconds on his 2008 time trail results.
I'll think you will find that there is a few players like Grant, Cordy, Shaw and a couple of others that also lag behind O'Keefe in the distance running.
Ward has a tendency to lope around but has enough toe when it counts both when he has the ball or chasing his opponent.

[Jasper]

Anyone else surprised that it's not Tiller for Everitt? I guess we don't need the extra tall this week. It might have given us the chance to move lake into the forward line.

[LostDoggy]

Just not sure if O'Keefe would be able to keep up with the fast paced Cats.
Stack atleast has some real leg speed which would be helpful.

You weren't talking about leg speed Mantis? Not sure about that.

[Mantis]

You weren't talking about leg speed Mantis? Not sure about that.

What I meant was that you need quick players to keep up with the ball movement and not so much to run down the Geelong players which rarely happens anyway.

I don't know if this makes any sense at all, but around the contest Geelong move the ball away very quickly so we need players to burst away to create pressure on the receiver, I don't think O'Keefe would add anything in this area.

[Mantis]

This is 2009 data and and on top of that O'Keefe has improved by about 24 seconds on his 2008 time trail results.
I'll think you will find that there is a few players like Grant, Cordy, Shaw and a couple of others that also lag behind O'Keefe in the distance running.
Ward has a tendency to lope around but has enough toe when it counts both when he has the ball or chasing his opponent.

You would hope that O'Keefe would be keeping up with a few of the midfield group which we hear doesn't happen a lot.

[LostDoggy]

What is wrong with Addison's knee?

[Go_Dogs]

What is wrong with Addison's knee?

I think it was reported that he had a little twinge on his medial. Nothing serious, a week or two.

*fingers crossed anyway*

[knowitall]

Are those figures from this past pre-season or from some other time? (Draft camp)

Figures are from the pre-season just gone. Ward's 3.2 kilometre time was taken before Christmas as he was unable to complete post Christmas. Okeefe's was taken post Christmas break.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Anyone else surprised that it's not Tiller for Everitt? I guess we don't need the extra tall this week. It might have given us the chance to move lake into the forward line.

A little bit surprised. Seems that with Mooney out we are going in smaller also. Tillers been a little bit hard done by this year - has seemingly been dropped for team balance issues when he's performed quite well.

[LostDoggy]

Anyone else sniff a change with Stack in & Callan out?

[The Coon Dog]

Anyone else sniff a change with Stack in & Callan out?

No, what makes you think that?

[Sedat]

Anyone else sniff a change with Stack in & Callan out?
We need small defensive cover this week, and Callan was in the bests for Willy last week - he would be a certainty to come in, and there is no shortage of quality small/mid sized forward options at Geelong that would require his presence this week.

[LostDoggy]

Ah good to hear. I didnt know why Callan was being brought in, thought he was still struggling with injury. Looking forward to his return :D