Ins and Outs for rd 13

[Mantis]

At the minute I would say no change.

I would think that if Williams had got thru the Williamstown game in good fashion he would have been a near cetainity to be promoted. While we have no no official word that he has damaged his hamstring other than there was some tightness I doubt they will risk him.

While we got away with a shortish backline in our past game I think that they would like to have Williams available to play against North for a match up on Hale or Petrie. I doubt they will bring in another tall defender such as Everitt or Wight so thay might just roll the dice as they did last week.

It was also hard to find someone to drop after such a convincing performance against Port.

[comrade]

Rocket judged the team selection to perfection against Port, going in with a small defence knowing that the greasy Darwin conditions would make it difficult for their talls to have an impact (see Westhoff x2).

I'm not sure he'll be able to do that this week.

They have 2 genuine tall forwards in Hale and Petrie, and 1 who plays tall in Edwards. McIntosh will go forward also.

Lake will take Hale.
Morris will take Petrie.
Hargrave will take Edwards.

It's possible they could bring in Josh Smith to really stretch us.

Their talls are the only area I'm concerned about and if we win enough ball in the midfield it shouldn't be an issue. But knowing our recent history, they always seem to break even with us in the middle, which will be helped by the return of Wells and Harvey. If this happens and we go in short down back, we're liable to leak some goals.

So my only change would be:

In: Everitt
Out: Welsh

I know Welsh helps our forward structure, but Bobby can be moved forward which will straighten us up. Andrejs has been in good form and will have a match up against North.

[Mantis]

So my only change would be:

In: Everitt
Out: Welsh

I know Welsh helps our forward structure, but Bobby can be moved forward which will straighten us up. Andrejs has been in good form and will have a match up against North.

On whom?

So far there seems to be a reluctance with Everitt to play him on a genuine tall forward. Would you play him on Edwards and move Hargrave to Smith? (If Smith plays)

I think we saw in the last qtr on Saturday that Pods was too strong for Everitt so I still think he is a little way off in body shape to be able to play on bigger players.

[comrade]

On whom?

So far there seems to be a reluctance with Everitt to play him on a genuine tall forward. Would you play him on Edwards and move Hargrave to Smith? (If Smith plays)

I think we saw in the last qtr on Saturday that Pods was too strong for Everitt so I still think he is a little way off in body shape to be able to play on bigger players.

I think he could play on either Smith or Edwards. Hansen could also move forward (which he's done in the past) if Crocker thinks he doesn't have a match up in our mid-sized forward line - I'd be confident that Everitt could handle that match up.

He could probably do a job on Garlett if Rocket wants to move Gilbee up the ground.

As we saw on Saturday when he was monstered by Pods, he's not ready to shutdown someone like Hale or Petrie, but up until then he was probably the stand out backman.

[LostDoggy]

Everitt and Williams are the 2 most important defenders on the periphery ATM. I think we have enough medium/small defenders in reasonable form, we need our taller defenders like Everitt to go to that next level.

Everitt has really stagnated in the last 12 or so months. There is no doubting his immesnse ability but I question his hardness in contested situations, his hunger to compete ruthlessly and work his ass off. Of course I have no idea what the truth of the matter is, that is just my observation of him.

Williams can't take a trick ATM, we need him to be right come finals time, whilst he is not the worlds greatest defender he adds so much to the structure of our backline.

I fear that his body will not let him realise his potential again this year.

[Mofra]

Everitt has really stagnated in the last 12 or so months. There is no doubting his immesnse ability but I question his hardness in contested situations, his hunger to compete ruthlessly and work his ass off. Of course I have no idea what the truth of the matter is, that is just my observation of him.
I think the issue is we drafted & developed him as a tall defender, however he plays like a rebounder. On leading forwards he is quite good, but his body on body work lets him down (Pods kicked 3 on him in the last, although 2 were fairly dodgy frees however Pods still had made the better position).
I wouldn't question his toughness; he looks very broad across the shoulders now, and game before last was absolutely polaxed but bounced up straight away & kept competing. He runs off his man hard but is not ready for a CHB type spot yet.

[LostDoggy]

I think the issue is we drafted & developed him as a tall defender, however he plays like a rebounder. On leading forwards he is quite good, but his body on body work lets him down (Pods kicked 3 on him in the last, although 2 were fairly dodgy frees however Pods still had made the better position).
I wouldn't question his toughness; he looks very broad across the shoulders now, and game before last was absolutely polaxed but bounced up straight away & kept competing. He runs off his man hard but is not ready for a CHB type spot yet.

Thats reassuring to hear and I am pleased that we are not playing him just for the sake of it. We are asking him to do the hard work as I imagine that he rates fairly highly on Rocket's required players for the future?

[bornadog]

Thats reassuring to hear and I am pleased that we are not playing him just for the sake of it. We are asking him to do the hard work as I imagine that he rates fairly highly on Rocket's required players for the future?

I wasn't happy with not having another tall against Port, but then Westhoff is a skinny tall and it worked out. Petrie and Hale are genuine big blokes with lots of weight and strength behind them. We need Williams this week, but if he is not available, I would prefer to stick Everitt in. I thought Everitt was pretty good yesterday, even though in the last quarter he was beaten, but then again, Williamstown stopped after only allowing Geelong 2 goals to three quarter time, so he wasn't the only one beaten in the last.

[comrade]

I thought Everitt was pretty good yesterday, even though in the last quarter he was beaten, but then again, Williamstown stopped after only allowing Geelong 2 goals to three quarter time, so he wasn't the only one beaten in the last.

At this point in his development he is a third tall, but on the weekend he was forced to take on the biggest bloke on park - it didn't help that he was isolated without any chop out from his teammates.

Also, what if North decide to sit on Gilbee and Harbrow? They've used Lower to effectively shut down Gilbee's run the last few times we've met, and with the increased exposure Harby is getting, it's not out of the question for Crocker to make Garlett responsible for stopping Harbrow's rebound out of defence.

If this happens, Everitt could be a handy option to move the ball forward, particularly considering his sublime foot skills.

In the end, I don't think there will be a change - we'll set up like we did against Port and use Murphy, Welsh and Hahn to do a job down back at different times.

[Rocco Jones]

Some great discussion guys.

I would go with no change but can see merit in Everitt for Welsh. I have very little faith in Andrejs as a tall defensive option at the moment and would only have him if is in the ball carrier role comrade has commented on.





Also, what if North decide to sit on Gilbee and Harbrow?

Lower plays a pretty hard forward tag and if they are going to have 2 forward tags then it can really come back to hurt them, especially when they only managed 4 goals last game they played. McMahon is another option for them as a forward tag.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Some great discussion guys.

I would go with no change but can see merit in Everitt for Welsh. I have very little faith in Andrejs as a tall defensive option at the moment and would only have him if is in the ball carrier role comrade has commented on.

It's an interesting one.

Most of us agree Everitt is not a tall defensive option at this stage of his career. Whilst not being strong enough yet, he's not a natural body on body player. He's not a physical crash and bash player either. He's more of a Ryder type.

Will he ever be a KPD?

If not, when do we start playing him in a different role to develop him elsewhere?

I think we'll keep our same line-up v North Melbourne but their forwards have given us a lot of trouble in the past.

[GVGjr]

It's time to test young Everitt and against North it wouldn't be a bad initiation.
He's form over the last few weeks warrants a return and even though Williams is being touted as a likely starter, I can also hear Rockets voice saying after the game that "Williams was as good as right to play but we decided to be ultra cautious with him because he is critical to us" "He will be available next week no doubt"

I'm not sure who should be dropped at the moment but it would appear that at least Tom will be named come our normal Thursday night selection shenanigans.

[GVGjr]

It's an interesting one.

Most of us agree Everitt is not a tall defensive option at this stage of his career. Whilst not being strong enough yet, he's not a natural body on body player. He's not a physical crash and bash player either. He's more of a Ryder type.

Will he ever be a KPD?

If not, when do we start playing him in a different role to develop him elsewhere?

I think we'll keep our same line-up v North Melbourne but their forwards have given us a lot of trouble in the past.

I was about to pose a similar question about Everitt.

I doubt that Rocket has a lot of faith in his ability to stand up and be counted against true power forwards and with Hargrave and Morris showing that they are better suited to the opposition mids and even the smalls so it doesn't leave a lot of room for Everitt.

FWIW, I think he has to be tried against a couple of decent tall opponents because you wouldn't want to be asking the same question closer to the finals.

[Mantis]

It's time to test young Everitt and against North it wouldn't be a bad initiation.
He's form over the last few weeks warrants a return and even though Williams is being touted as a likely starter, I can also hear Rockets voice saying after the game that "Williams was as good as right to play but we decided to be ultra cautious with him because he is critical to us" "He will be available next week no doubt"

I'm not sure who should be dropped at the moment but it would appear that at least Tom will be named come our normal Thursday night selection shenanigans.

Who makes way?

[Rocco Jones]

I don't see why we have to play him against talls just because he is a tall. I would much prefer to play him on a smaller opponent and try to use him as a rebounding defender.

[GVGjr]

Who makes way?


It's time to test young Everitt and against North it wouldn't be a bad initiation.
He's form over the last few weeks warrants a return and even though Williams is being touted as a likely starter, I can also hear Rockets voice saying after the game that "Williams was as good as right to play but we decided to be ultra cautious with him because he is critical to us" "He will be available next week no doubt"

I'm not sure who should be dropped at the moment but it would appear that at least Tom will be named come our normal Thursday night selection shenanigans.

I have already said that I'm not sure on who should miss out yet I suspect that the hard decision will need to be made. The unlucky guy might be Welsh but I actually rate him to being one of the key players if we are to beat both the Saints and Cats come the finals

Things might be a bit clearer later in the week.

[AndrewP6]

No change for mine... soreness in most players, and they would be playable, but in Tommy?? Keep him on the shelf!

[The Underdog]

I have already said that I'm not sure on who should miss out yet I suspect that the hard decision will need to be made. The unlucky guy might be Welsh but I actually rate him to being one of the key players if we are to beat both the Saints and Cats come the finals

Things might be a bit clearer later in the week.

Problem for Welsh is that 21 guys performed strongly in Darwin and he wasn't one of them. Seems odd to drop a tall forward for a tall back but it's the one area where North may be able to exploit us having Hale, Petrie and Edwards. We also had our hands full with their small forwards last time although I'm not sure which are available, Thomas may be back. Williams for Welsh makes the most sense. Of course the media reports might be bullshit which means it'd be Everitt for Welsh.

[bornadog]

Problem for Welsh is that 21 guys performed strongly in Darwin and he wasn't one of them. Seems odd to drop a tall forward for a tall back but it's the one area where North may be able to exploit us having Hale, Petrie and Edwards. We also had our hands full with their small forwards last time although I'm not sure which are available, Thomas may be back. Williams for Welsh makes the most sense. Of course the media reports might be bullshit which means it'd be Everitt for Welsh.

Welsh does straighten us up a bit in the forward line, but he is not a tall. Same height as Hahn.

[LostDoggy]

I would definitely rest Williams for another week. Even if it means playing Wight on the North tall forwards.

Darwin was slippery so playing Murphy down back was a risk that payed dividends. Can't see him playing on Hale and Co.

Strong case for Williams/Wight this week so my guess is out Welsh and in one tall back starting with W.

[LostDoggy]

I would much prefer(by a long way) that Everitt be included instead of Wight. Everitt will be at the dogs for a long time to come and Wight will(should) not. Everitt has some footy smarts to go with his athleticism and height. Wight has height.

[Rocco Jones]

I would much prefer(by a long way) that Everitt be included instead of Wight. Everitt will be at the dogs for a long time to come and Wight will(should) not. Everitt has some footy smarts to go with his athleticism and height. Wight has height.

If Wight vs Everitt filling a tall defensive spot was a soccer match, it would be an FA Cup replay of a 0-0 game that again ended up 0-0 after extra time with a team winning a 10 shot apiece penalty shot out 1-0.

I have so little faith in Everitt filling a defensive KP. Yes he has smarts but they definitely don't apply to stopping a KP forward. I would back Wight ahead of him to be at least competitive as a KP defender. All that being said, I would only consider Wight if Lake, Williams and Tiller were all missing and the opposition had two power forward types.

The only place Andrejs is "tall" at the moment in is the AFL record.

[Mantis]

If Wight vs Everitt filling a tall defensive spot was a soccer match, it would be an FA Cup replay of a 0-0 game that again ended up 0-0 after extra time with a team winning a 10 shot apiece penalty shot out 1-0.

I have so little faith in Everitt filling a defensive KP. Yes he has smarts but they definitely don't apply to stopping a KP forward. I would back Wight ahead of him to be at least competitive as a KP defender. All that being said, I would only consider Wight if Lake, Williams and Tiller were all missing and the opposition had two power forward types.

The only place Andrejs is "tall" at the moment in is the AFL record.

When has Tiller ever performed well on a power forward type? In his last effort he was outplayed by Jack Riewoldt, a player I believe Everitt & Wight would be able to handle comfortably.

[Rocco Jones]

When has Tiller ever performed well on a power forward type? In his last effort he was outplayed by Jack Riewoldt, a player I believe Everitt & Wight would be able to handle comfortably.

Yeah fair enough point on Tiller struggling on power forward types but I am not sure Everitt or Wight would be able to handle Jack Riewoldt "comfortably". Either way, I would only play the best out of that lot as a defensive KP if Lake and Williams were both out.

[The Underdog]

Welsh does straighten us up a bit in the forward line, but he is not a tall. Same height as Hahn.

In our forward line that qualifies as tall :)

[bornadog]

In our forward line that qualifies as tall :)

True :D

[boydogs]

Tough again this week. I would like to see Williams if fit in for Hill. Hill has been a junk time king the last few weeks but generally happy with his performances, would just prefer to keep Welsh in the side for structure and to give him some game time after injury and suspension. Murphy could then go forward and Williams to take Petrie.

If Williams is not right we could probably do as good of a job with Morris or Hargrave on Petrie as Everitt or Wight could, so would say no change

[jazzadogs]

Tough again this week. I would like to see Williams if fit in for Hill. Hill has been a junk time king the last few weeks but generally happy with his performances, would just prefer to keep Welsh in the side for structure and to give him some game time after injury and suspension. Murphy could then go forward and Williams to take Petrie.

If Williams is not right we could probably do as good of a job with Morris or Hargrave on Petrie as Everitt or Wight could, so would say no change
Hill won't be dropped, and is probably more important to the side than Welsh.
If they are going to bring in a tall defender, Welsh would have to be the one to go, assuming no soreness in any of the 22.
And I doubt North would be willing to sacrifice two forwards, to tag Gilbee and Harbrow.

Hopefully Rocket gives Crocker a lesson in how to win the tactical battle of match day.

[LostDoggy]

If Wight vs Everitt filling a tall defensive spot was a soccer match, it would be an FA Cup replay of a 0-0 game that again ended up 0-0 after extra time with a team winning a 10 shot apiece penalty shot out 1-0.

I have so little faith in Everitt filling a defensive KP. Yes he has smarts but they definitely don't apply to stopping a KP forward. I would back Wight ahead of him to be at least competitive as a KP defender. All that being said, I would only consider Wight if Lake, Williams and Tiller were all missing and the opposition had two power forward types.

The only place Andrejs is "tall" at the moment in is the AFL record.


What I am driving at here is that in my opinion, Everitt is cleaarly the best chance of those guys to become a class player that in the future will be versatile enough to play on a tallish forward(while not winning every contest but neither would the other two) and run off then kick with skill or on a given day move him forward or on the wing. Tiller is not as clean but is better than Wight, Wights only real saving grace is his spoiling ability which can stilll get found out by his reading of the play.

As far as KP, this is not what I am suggesting (at this stage in his career anyway), but we need someone who can assist our KPs when we are stretched, the Everitt will be dangerous winning his own ball as well. I think he would have been a better option against Jack Riewoldt.

Who do you think will play the most games at the dogs? Everitt, Tiller or Wight? I think clearly Everitt, he just needs to take one more step and games under the belt will do that(plus aload of pies to beef him up).
How would you rank those 3 on their best day? Everitt, Tiller, , , , Wight for me. (Sorry Cam, I would give Skipper a go first).

[Mofra]

Everitt, Tiller, , , , Wight for me. (Sorry Cam, I would give Skipper a go first).
Last week Wight was better than Williams (albeit underdone) and arguably a better spoiler than Everitt. Wight has actually taken a few good marks around the ground & his disposal has improved. I doubt we'll see Cam again but he has been making an effort and has improved this year in some aspects of his game.

[LostDoggy]

Who do you think will play the most games at the dogs? Everitt, Tiller or Wight? I think clearly Everitt, he just needs to take one more step and games under the belt will do that(plus aload of pies to beef him up).
How would you rank those 3 on their best day? Everitt, Tiller, , , , Wight for me. (Sorry Cam, I would give Skipper a go first).

Can any well informed WIlliamstown watchers add any more comment to this?