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View Full Version : Drafting - What type of player do we need?



GVGjr
18-07-2009, 12:22 AM
Don't worry too much about the players that are available in this years draft or what number our first round pick will be, just describe the type of player we should target and why.
There is a bit of list management in this question.

- A key defender
- A small defender
- A mid sized defender

- A inside midfielder
- A outside midfielder
- A ruckman

- A key forward
- A small forward
- A mid sized forward

Sockeye Salmon
18-07-2009, 12:29 AM
We're actually pretty well balanced looking forward.

I think we need a mid-sized utility back, quick enough to play on the smalls.

GVGjr
18-07-2009, 12:32 AM
We're actually pretty well balanced looking forward.

I think we need a mid-sized utility back, quick enough to play on the smalls.

A Shaggy or Morris clone?

Sockeye Salmon
18-07-2009, 12:52 AM
A Shaggy or Morris clone?

Exactly

boydogs
18-07-2009, 12:55 AM
1. Outside Mid - not too much pace in our mids coming through
2. Small Forward - Harbrow playing back, not sure if Lynch will make it
3. Key Forward - Murph, Hahn, Welsh, Aker, Johnno all aging - could go for a ready made big body to support the rakes coming through

comrade
18-07-2009, 01:04 AM
1. Pacy, outside midfielder (Stephen Hill)
2. Small, quick goalsneak (Alwyn Davey)
3. Mobile, mid-sized forward (Jason Porplyzia)
4. Mobile, mid-sized defender (Sam Fisher)

LostDogHome
18-07-2009, 01:29 AM
A good old fashioned pack buster (inside mid) with blinding skills ala Daniel Rich:eek: To feed all our up and coming talls:)

AndrewP6
18-07-2009, 02:37 AM
Key forward, I reckon...

The Doctor
18-07-2009, 08:07 AM
Not in priority order

1. A linebreaking midfielder/half back. I can see why we showed some interest in Lovett a year ago.

2. A pacy & creative winger/half forward. If Wells was on the market we should consider strongly.

3. A key defender. Wight is gone and O'Shea probably gone. That leaves us light on for depth.

4. A small/midsized forward. Our currently supply is getting long in the tooth.

GVGjr
18-07-2009, 09:39 AM
Is this the first time in many years where the focus hasn't been on getting a key forward? (except for AndrewP6)

That's a lot of faith in the inexperienced group of Grant, Boumann, Cordy, Jones and maybe Roughead.

No one has nominated a ruckman either which would normally get some sort of a a mention.

GVGjr
18-07-2009, 09:43 AM
We're actually pretty well balanced looking forward.

I think we need a mid-sized utility back, quick enough to play on the smalls.


A Shaggy or Morris clone?


Exactly

Does Everitt fit this bill or will he eventually develop into more of a key defender?

Happy Days
18-07-2009, 09:55 AM
Does Everitt fit this bill or will he eventually develop into more of a key defender?

Everitt is definitely more of a Shaggy than a Morris, and with Williams the preferred option at CHB for the next while (touch wood), I'd prefer Everitt on a flank. His fleet footedness and skills will allow him to play this role well, he just needs to become more accountable.

Boumann is potentially another one who could play this role, although his development will be more centered around turning him into a KPP. But from what he has displayed at Williamstown, I think he would be best as the third man up type of role, similar to Harley and Maxwell, as he has the marking ability to do this, and the toe to hurt them going the other way.

comrade
18-07-2009, 09:58 AM
Is this the first time in many years where the focus hasn't been on getting a key forward? (except for AndrewP6)

That's a lot of faith in the inexperienced group of Grant, Boumann, Cordy, Jones and maybe Roughead.

No one has nominated a ruckman either which would normally get some sort of a a mention.

I think there comes a time when you just have to back the young guys you've drafted - particularly as the group of young talls we have sitting at Williamstown is probably the most promising we've seen in 20 years. If we keep drafting talls (particularly in what is being roundly lauded as a midfield draft) and hoping one sticks, we're in danger of neglecting other areas of our list that needs attention.

As for a ruck man, we probably do need another one, but I think we have other more pressing positions we need coverage for. If we did pick one, I'd hope it's with a late/rookie pick.

Shaw is starting to show a bit, and has been in our system for a couple of years - would he be worth more than a raw kid taken at a late pick in a shallow draft? I think so.

LostDogHome
18-07-2009, 10:09 AM
Is this the first time in many years where the focus hasn't been on getting a key forward? (except for AndrewP6)

That's a lot of faith in the inexperienced group of Grant, Boumann, Cordy, Jones and maybe Roughead.

No one has nominated a ruckman either which would normally get some sort of a a mention.

I'm hoping and fairly confident that Roughead will be our no.1 ruckman in a year or so. Just needs to work on his around the ground stuff and build up his engine. Very good tap ruckman from what i've seen. All 4 talls mentioned will play a big part in our future:)

Mantis
18-07-2009, 10:12 AM
1. Pacy outside midfielder/ wingman

2. Mid-sized defender who uses the ball well

3. Small/ mid-sized 'deep' forward

4. Mid-sized half forward.

LostDogHome
18-07-2009, 10:42 AM
A lot have mentioned a small/mid type forward.
We already have the perfect type in Okeefe a quick check of his stats show he has kicked 47 goals in a seson & a half for Willy.He would have set up alot more than he has kicked as well.
He will also give us the variety of a left foot in our forward structure.
Thoughts?

comrade
18-07-2009, 10:50 AM
A lot have mentioned a small/mid type forward.
We already have the perfect type in Okeefe a quick check of his stats show he has kicked 47 goals in a seson & a half for Willy.He would have set up alot more than he has kicked as well.
He will also give us the variety of a left foot in our forward structure.
Thoughts?

I'm a fan of O'Keefe and have been impressed with the majority of his performances throughout the year - in fact, he's probably been the best performed Bulldog at Williamstown.

He's a smart footballer with good skills, but he lacks pace and his tackling ability is a slight weakness (it's improved over the year, however).

A forward at AFL has to be quick to enable separation, and they have to be able to lock the ball in at ground level. As an observer, I think Rocket has doubts that O'Keefe has the tools to perform at the faster AFL tempo - that he's found his level at VFL.

I guess we'll never know unless he gets his chance, though.

Desipura
18-07-2009, 10:52 AM
A lightning quick forward pocket/onballer
A tall strong backman
A quick outside wingman with nice skills
A midsized forward

boydogs
18-07-2009, 12:09 PM
Is this the first time in many years where the focus hasn't been on getting a key forward? (except for AndrewP6)

That's a lot of faith in the inexperienced group of Grant, Boumann, Cordy, Jones and maybe Roughead.

No one has nominated a ruckman either which would normally get some sort of a a mention.

Key forward was my 3rd priority, but I wonder whether the reason why this isn't getting more of a mention is the term 'drafting' in the thread title. We have key forwards coming through already and maybe don't need to draft any more, but could perhaps trade for an experienced big body to use whilst they are developing, such as Hall or Pavlich

In the ruck in a few years we should have Roughead, Minson and Cordy in the 22 and Shaw also coming through, could maybe do with one more as cover and to enable the others to go forward however I don't see this as being as big a need as the other areas


Does Everitt fit this bill or will he eventually develop into more of a key defender?

Yeah I think he could, I didn't have a defender in my wishlist as I think we are already spoilt for choice and have Boumann coming through

Sunshine
18-07-2009, 12:27 PM
Key forward was my 3rd priority, but I wonder whether the reason why this isn't getting more of a mention is the term 'drafting' in the thread title.

In fairness G did ask what sort of player we should target with our first pick.

For me I would still look at a key forward or gun midfielder because I believe that mid size defenders can be easily found.

LostDogHome
18-07-2009, 12:51 PM
He's a smart footballer with good skills, but he lacks pace and his tackling ability is a slight weakness (it's improved over the year, however).

A forward at AFL has to be quick to enable separation, and they have to be able to lock the ball in at ground level. As an observer, I think Rocket has doubts that O'Keefe has the tools to perform at the faster AFL tempo - that he's found his level at VFL.

I guess we'll never know unless he gets his chance, though.

All good points that you make Comrade but his class & decision making wont leave him at
the next level in some ways he may find the ball easier to get with better delivery.
His tackling & workrate has really been a strength of his this year compared to last year from what i have seen.
He may lack pace but is quick enough over the first 20 to win enough of his own ball.
Is he much slower than Reid & Ward who have been given that chance i wouldnt think so? If pace is the reason he isnt going to make it at afl level that would count out alot of current day stars like bartel,mitchell,rich etc.They seem to be doing pretty well!
The other question is why is his form as the best bulldog listed player at Willy being ignored he isnt even named as an emergency! Surely Gotch would be wrapt with the footy he has produced & would be pumping him up for a debut to see if he has the tools to make it?

Sockeye Salmon
18-07-2009, 02:06 PM
Does Everitt fit this bill or will he eventually develop into more of a key defender?

I know I'm in the minority but I see Everitt's best chance is at FB to eventually take over from Lake.

Mofra
18-07-2009, 02:12 PM
I think we need a mid-sized utility back, quick enough to play on the smalls.
That was first on the list. I'd want someone who can play the "quarterback" type role, as Shaggy has been racking up the possies and is providing a good foil to Gilbee's penetration and Harbrow's run.

The second would be a mid-forward with a big engine who can keep presenting all day, someone who can play a Johnson/Murphy type role - I'd expect Rose on a rookie list may make this a lower priority.

I'd actually like another key back on the assumption that Liam Jones is a forward and Boumann will be a untility, although by all account this draft is a bit light-on for taller players.

Worth bearing in mind we have two mids next draft. I'd like a nother ruckman too, given Cordy will probably break through to the senior team as a forward initially and in a couple of years time Minson could be as handy as a forward as a ruck. Makes watching Shaw an interesting proposition.

Mofra
18-07-2009, 02:15 PM
In the ruck in a few years we should have Roughead, Minson and Cordy in the 22 and Shaw also coming through, could maybe do with one more as cover and to enable the others to go forward however I don't see this as being as big a need as the other areas
Assuming Cordy develops as a ruck. He looks ok there given his size, but Roughead has no 1 ruck stamped all over him, and Minson has actually learnt to mark the ball this year and looks 100% better forward this year when compared to last. Cordy has played more forward this year & has presented very well.

This could leave us with Roughy as the only genuine ruck with Minson able to be a no 1 ruck & Cordy a forward/ruck. I'd prefer a bit of depth to the ruck stocks - Essendon gambled with 3 rucks and lost, Collingwood aren't a premiership chance without a real 2nd ruck to support Fraser (who is injured this week).

LostDogHome
18-07-2009, 02:20 PM
I know I'm in the minority but I see Everitt's best chance is at FB to eventually take over from Lake.

I agree SS running in straight lines deep from defence & overhead marking & closing speed to spoil is his strength.i think when he builds his frame he could fill the role when Lake is finished there.

LostDogHome
18-07-2009, 02:37 PM
, I think Rocket has doubts that O'Keefe has the tools to perform at the faster AFL tempo - that he's found his level at VFL.

I guess we'll never know unless he gets his chance, though.

Just on that Comrade i think it is easy to find faults in a player if you are looking for them & i think that is what is happening with Okeefe.

As the old saying goes class is class is class & young Ocka has it in spades lets hope we see it afl level soon.

It would be a shame to see him at another club after we have put 2 years into him getting him fit for afl level.Especially as he would seem the natural replacement for players like aker,johno & Eagle in the next 2 years.Ocka would be a walk up start in most clubs especially sides that lack smart natural footballers.

comrade
18-07-2009, 05:46 PM
Just on that Comrade i think it is easy to find faults in a player if you are looking for them & i think that is what is happening with Okeefe.

As the old saying goes class is class is class & young Ocka has it in spades lets hope we see it afl level soon.

It would be a shame to see him at another club after we have put 2 years into him getting him fit for afl level.Especially as he would seem the natural replacement for players like aker,johno & Eagle in the next 2 years.Ocka would be a walk up start in most clubs especially sides that lack smart natural footballers.

I agree with what you're saying - just from an outsiders view, Rocket obviously rates a guy like Stack above O'Keefe, despite O'Keefe performing at a higher level all year.

I hope he gets a run at some stage this year and proves that his foot skills and footy smarts are good enough to stand up to the rigours of AFL.

GVGjr
18-07-2009, 10:05 PM
Just on that Comrade i think it is easy to find faults in a player if you are looking for them & i think that is what is happening with Okeefe.

As the old saying goes class is class is class & young Ocka has it in spades lets hope we see it afl level soon.

It would be a shame to see him at another club after we have put 2 years into him getting him fit for afl level.Especially as he would seem the natural replacement for players like aker,johno & Eagle in the next 2 years.Ocka would be a walk up start in most clubs especially sides that lack smart natural footballers.

PupDog, do you get to many games? For what it's worth, I don't think either Comrade or I will dispute anything you have written and it would be nice for O'Keefe to have played by now but at the moment it just doesn't look like there is a position opening up for him.

LostDogHome
19-07-2009, 09:50 AM
PupDog, do you get to many games? For what it's worth, I don't think either Comrade or I will dispute anything you have written and it would be nice for O'Keefe to have played by now but at the moment it just doesn't look like there is a position opening up for him.

Yes G been to most games this year since i returned from interstate.I have seen enough to know that Okeefes worst game has been the equal to Stacks best.I like both players & i think Stack is a smooth mover but Okeefe is my type of footballer i love the smart throwback type.The thing that strikes me is he plays a very unselfish game for a young kid waiting to debut.He makes the right decision with ball even if it means giving off when he could have a shot at goal himself.You could not say the same about some of his teammates in a similar position or some aspiring to be drafted.Maybe im being a bit harsh maybe they dont have the vision that okeefe possesses?
As for a spot not opening up it is a sign of a strong list. i reckon he would be playing at a club like Richmond who have plenty of athletes but lack class players with footy smarts.

Topdog
19-07-2009, 10:51 AM
I agree with what you're saying - just from an outsiders view, Rocket obviously rates a guy like Stack above O'Keefe, despite O'Keefe performing at a higher level all year.

I hope he gets a run at some stage this year and proves that his foot skills and footy smarts are good enough to stand up to the rigours of AFL.

I honestly have no idea if he does or not but why do you think he rates Stack above O'Keefe?

The Coon Dog
19-07-2009, 10:54 AM
I honestly have no idea but why do you think he rates Stack above O'Keefe?

Trust me, he does.

GVGjr
19-07-2009, 10:58 AM
Yes G been to most games this year since i returned from interstate.I have seen enough to know that Okeefes worst game has been the equal to Stacks best.

Great to hear. I hope you are able to contribute to a report of today's game.

Sockeye Salmon
19-07-2009, 02:13 PM
I honestly have no idea if he does or not but why do you think he rates Stack above O'Keefe?

What position could O'Keefe play where his woeful lack of pace wouldn't be exploited?

Twodogs
19-07-2009, 02:33 PM
The type of player I want isnt so much defined by physical proportions as by attitude.


I want a bloke who flat out refuses to lose. Who will unquestionably do what it takes to win a game of football. Who will put the team no. 1, and unselfishly prepare, recover and not let physical pain play any part in his approach to getting out on the field. When we have an important game this guy is the one who say's "This is how we are going to win guys" and goes out and leads by example. A bloke who when the team is down, drags himself and the rest of the team over the line.



Anyone know what Luke Hodge's plans are for next year?

lemmon
19-07-2009, 04:17 PM
I would be looking for a quick, small forward in the Cyril Rioli, Alwyn Davey mold or an outside, pacey midfielder with clean skills.

LostDogHome
19-07-2009, 08:11 PM
What position could O'Keefe play where his woeful lack of pace wouldn't be exploited?

Woeful is a bit harsh SS! How does he win so much of the ball,lay so many tackles & kick & create so many goals.He looked quick enough again today to be close to b o g!

LostDogHome
19-07-2009, 08:18 PM
The type of player I want isnt so much defined by physical proportions as by attitude.




Anyone know what Luke Hodge's plans are for next year?

Wouldnt get a game in our team he is not quick enough just ask Okeefe! LOL!

LostDogHome
19-07-2009, 08:23 PM
Trust me, he does.

Enlighten us TCD has he told you this? Or do you think it is purely a pace & fitness issue?

bornadog
20-07-2009, 02:26 PM
We need to consider replacing the ageing forward mids such as Aker, Johnno and Welsh. I think we will be ok for rucks, KPPs and small backs for the next year or two.

The biggest list management issue coming up is replacing the 1999 draftees or are starting to get close to 30 years old and perhaps slowing down. This will be an issue for us in about two years time.

Go_Dogs
21-07-2009, 11:04 AM
I'd really like an Andy Otten type - tall, 190 cm type, good overhead, good skills, can play inside and out in a range of positions. He's going to develop very much into a similar footballer to Hargrave, but probably slightly more powerful.

A small or medium sized marking forward would also be nice.

I really don't see any glaring deficiencies, but a lot of it depends how much we get out of the guys with 20-30 or less games at the moment - can they become good league players over the next year or two?

Bulldog Revolution
23-07-2009, 03:23 PM
I'm in the camp who think we still need some key forwards. We've got a few prospects on the list in those positions but at the minute they've not shown any ability to have an impact at AFL level, and given its been so long since we actually had a key forward its crucial we keep looking for them so we can avoid another 20 year drought.

I'd also like another Lindsay Gilbee, and another Robert Murphy

Scorlibo
23-07-2009, 08:15 PM
I'm in the camp who think we still need some key forwards. We've got a few prospects on the list in those positions but at the minute they've not shown any ability to have an impact at AFL level, and given its been so long since we actually had a key forward its crucial we keep looking for them so we can avoid another 20 year drought.

I'd also like another Lindsay Gilbee, and another Robert Murphy

Jarrad Grant, Liam Jones, Ayce Cordy, Jarrad Boumann.

If we can't get a key forward out of that lot then I'd put it down to bad development and not drafting. What good would it do to draft another kid prospect? The guys above on our list don't show an ability to have an impact at AFL level now because they're so young and KPP take time, so it would be nothing less than list clogging to draft another young key forward.

Have faith in Jarrad Grant, he has one ripper set of hands.

soupaman
24-07-2009, 01:55 PM
a) A lightning quick (as in Davey quick) midfielder/forward who works both ways

b) Someone who can crumb as a forward pocket and still push up and get their 10-15 possesions across half forward

c) Another tall, not fussed which end. Just thionk we should keep investing in talls because even if we have too many, they have a good trade currency.

Desipura
24-07-2009, 02:18 PM
a) A lightning quick (as in Davey quick) midfielder/forward who works both ways

b) Someone who can crumb as a forward pocket and still push up and get their 10-15 possesions across half forward

c) Another tall, not fussed which end. Just thionk we should keep investing in talls because even if we have too many, they have a good trade currency.
A & B sound like the same type of player

way out west
24-07-2009, 02:25 PM
A quick small forward now that it looks like Lynch wont make

soupaman
25-07-2009, 01:28 AM
A & B sound like the same type of player

Not necessarily, but possibly (does that even make sense). Basically I want someone who as a midfielder can turn the jets on and break the lines, similiar to Harbrow (I'd want him to turn out to be a Lovett type player). Then the forward I want to be the Alwyn Davey type to chase them out of there but also to be able to position themselves well for the crumbs. Theoretically they could be one player, but I'd like two.

AndrewP6
25-07-2009, 02:20 AM
a) A lightning quick (as in Davey quick) midfielder/forward who works both ways

b) Someone who can crumb as a forward pocket and still push up and get their 10-15 possesions across half forward

c) Another tall, not fussed which end. Just thionk we should keep investing in talls because even if we have too many, they have a good trade currency.

And we haven't exactly set the world on fire with our talls in recent times!

Bulldog Revolution
25-07-2009, 12:36 PM
Jarrad Grant, Liam Jones, Ayce Cordy, Jarrad Boumann.

If we can't get a key forward out of that lot then I'd put it down to bad development and not drafting. What good would it do to draft another kid prospect? The guys above on our list don't show an ability to have an impact at AFL level now because they're so young and KPP take time, so it would be nothing less than list clogging to draft another young key forward.

Have faith in Jarrad Grant, he has one ripper set of hands.

I'd hope we would get a player out of them but I'd sooner not leave it to chance, and I disagree with the list clogging issue. And whatever forwards we do draft may end up being defenders at a senior AFL level ala Brian Lake

Grant shows some promise at a senior VFL level but is still a fair way off, and its hard to know if he is really a key position or the third tall option.

Liam Jones has not even played VFL seniors and its likely to be 2012 before he is having an impact at senior AFL level.

Boumann has rarely played forward at a VFL senior level, and seems to be being developed as a defender - whether that is with an eye to playing him forward later we do not yet know. Whilst hes improved a fair bit I dont think we as a club should be banking on him as a certainty to make it to AFL level.

Cordy is likely to be a part time ruckman/forward. Whilst I want to see him succeed the realities of life are that there are very few players who ever really emerge as being good at both of those things and he is perhaps also a 2012-13 prospect

By my reckoning we just have to keep adding prospects to the list to see if they will pan out. If they end up defenders thats fine with me also, but I think we need to continue to be looking for the best available talls, and make some tough calls on rookie selections etc.

Jasper
27-07-2009, 11:08 PM
I would think that if a quality key forward could be found in the draft that would best for us.

Happy Days
28-07-2009, 12:18 AM
I would think that if a quality key forward could be found in the draft that would best for us.

Even if we did want to go down this road, this is not the draft to do it in; very much a midfielder's draft.