View Full Version : Bulldog Howard aiming for VFL start
The Coon Dog
21-01-2010, 09:25 PM
By Mic Cullen 1:15 PM Thu 21 January, 2010
http://mm.afl.com.au/Portals/0/images/AFL/AFL%20A-E/Easy_does_it_246c.jpg
THE WESTERN Bulldogs have set the early rounds of the VFL as a target for first-round draft pick Christian Howard as he has still not resumed running after undergoing hip surgery a month ago.
Most of the football world was taken by surprise when the Dogs snapped up Howard at pick 15 in the 2009 NAB AFL Draft, but his new team said he was a clear first-rounder, and that they knew he would need the operation prior to selecting him.
Article in full... (http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/88832/default.aspx)
GVGjr
21-01-2010, 10:38 PM
I'm looking forward to seeing how he performs. We went after highly skilled players with our first two picks and I'm sure I'll enjoy watching them down at Williamstown.
LostDoggy
21-01-2010, 10:51 PM
By Mic Cullen 1:15 PM Thu 21 January, 2010
http://mm.afl.com.au/Portals/0/images/AFL/AFL%20A-E/Easy_does_it_246c.jpg
THE WESTERN Bulldogs have set the early rounds of the VFL as a target for first-round draft pick Christian Howard as he has still not resumed running after undergoing hip surgery a month ago.
Most of the football world was taken by surprise when the Dogs snapped up Howard at pick 15 in the 2009 NAB AFL Draft, but his new team said he was a clear first-rounder, and that they knew he would need the operation prior to selecting him.
Article in full... (http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/88832/default.aspx)
Coon, we're not a pack of mugs when it comes to draft picks. Our Guys know what we need, what we require and what needs to be done to get them there. I am personally looking forward to seeing Howard and some of the other guys perform an IMPROVE in the VFL and hopefully later this year or next get a chance to pull on the famous RED, WHITE & BLUE
Coon, we're not a pack of mugs when it comes to draft picks. Our Guys know what we need, what we require and what needs to be done to get them there. I am personally looking forward to seeing Howard and some of the other guys perform an IMPROVE in the VFL and hopefully later this year or next get a chance to pull on the famous RED, WHITE & BLUE
Think this is a case of shooting the messenger, TCD didn't write the article he just placed it on Woof for us to read.
Dry Rot
25-01-2010, 08:51 PM
Coon, we're not a pack of mugs when it comes to draft picks.
Power, McMahon, Walsh, Wells, McGuinness, Bowden......
Swoop
26-01-2010, 09:34 AM
I think that every club has it's hits and misses if you analyse the drafts closely enough. The nature of the industry dictates that not every player will make it and the list will continually evolve and develop. For every Walsh there's a Lake and vice versa.
LostDoggy
26-01-2010, 11:17 AM
Power, McMahon, Walsh, Wells, McGuinness, Bowden......
Sam Power. Played 84 games for the club and left of his own choice.
Jordan McMahon. Played 114 games for the club,including a rising star nomination and left of his own accord.
Walsh. Injury plagued, regarded as the best tall available in that draft. We'll never know.
Wells. Granted.
Kieran McGuinness. Disappointing but still played 26 games, about average for an AFL player.
Pat Bowden. Played 50 games for the club.
Whilst none are Cooney or Griffen, if that's what you regard as mugs recruiting, your standards are impossibly high.
Bulldog Revolution
26-01-2010, 12:49 PM
Does anyone know if Howard played any senior SANFL footy in 09?
mighty_west
26-01-2010, 05:12 PM
Power, McMahon, Walsh, Wells, McGuinness, Bowden......
Cooney, Griffen, Higgins, Ward, Gilbee, Giansiracusa, Cross, Lake, Morris, Harbrow, Boyd, Hargrave, Murphy, Hahn........
LostDoggy
27-01-2010, 06:32 PM
Does anyone know if Howard played any senior SANFL footy in 09?
Yeah at Glenelg.
Mantis
27-01-2010, 07:21 PM
Yeah at Glenelg.
He did? Where did you find that info?
According to the stats I found on the following website Christian played 22 games for Glenelg U/18's which doesn't leave much room for senior footy.
SANFL Stats
(http://www.sanfl.com.au/maccas_cup/u18_results/)
LostDoggy
27-01-2010, 09:59 PM
He did? Where did you find that info?
According to the stats I found on the following website Christian played 22 games for Glenelg U/18's which doesn't leave much room for senior footy.
SANFL Stats
(http://www.sanfl.com.au/maccas_cup/u18_results/)
Yeah sorry it was only under 18's. I thought i read that he had but i must have mis-read it.
ronmcd
29-01-2010, 10:40 PM
With regard to Howard's ability, the best person to ask is 'Through and Through.' He knows the South Aussie players best. In particular, he knows the guys at 'the Bay' ,or Glenelg here in SA. I really trust his knowledge!!
Throughandthrough
30-01-2010, 12:11 AM
He did? Where did you find that info?
According to the stats I found on the following website Christian played 22 games for Glenelg U/18's which doesn't leave much room for senior footy.
SANFL Stats
(http://www.sanfl.com.au/maccas_cup/u18_results/)
Glenelg (the Bays) hardly pushed anyone up to higher levels last year, for a variety of reasons, but mainly a very high level of depth in all three teams and the fact that the league team was having a red hot go @ the flag. (which they stuffed up royally, in the finals...). A few of the older u 18 kids floated up and down and played a few reserves games from time to time but not much more then that. It is some peoples opinions over here (not mine...) that it's better for a younger guy to stay in the 18's then play Magoos.
Coincidentally, I bumped into Howie's Coach from last year at a meeting the other day. He's getting great reports back from Howie and his family, and he (Howie) has now settled in with his new host family after learning the ropes @ the house of Gilbee.
His coach from last year has previously declared that he believes that Howard was the most accurate kick from any of the three senior teams @ the Bays. I also believe he started last year a bit off the boil but half way through the year decided to fully commit to the cause and went ahead in massive leaps and bounds.
AndrewP6
30-01-2010, 01:01 AM
Coincidentally, I bumped into Howie's Coach from last year at a meeting the other day. He's getting great reports back from Howie and his family, and he (Howie) has now settled in with his new host family after learning the ropes @ the house of Gilbee.
Just slightly off topic, who are the 'host families' interstate players are matched with? Are they club employees? Anyone know anything about them?
The Coon Dog
30-01-2010, 07:47 AM
Just slightly off topic, who are the 'host families' interstate players are matched with? Are they club employees? Anyone know anything about them?
Just ordinary folk Andrew.
I was approached by Gary O'Sullivan towards the end of 1994 & asked to host a new recruit, which I did for a year.
Lots of washing, but the biggest impact is on the grocery bill (the club assists) & diet. Never ate as much rice & pasta later in the week as I did in 1995.
AndrewP6
30-01-2010, 09:02 AM
Just ordinary folk Andrew.
I was approached by Gary O'Sullivan towards the end of 1994 & asked to host a new recruit, which I did for a year.
Lots of washing, but the biggest impact is on the grocery bill (the club assists) & diet. Never ate as much rice & pasta later in the week as I did in 1995.
Cool, thanks for the info. I guess I'm a little far from Whitten Oval to get a call!
Cooney, Griffen, Higgins, Ward, Gilbee, Giansiracusa, Cross, Lake, Morris, Harbrow, Boyd, Hargrave, Murphy, Hahn........
In fairness, Cooney, Griffen, Murphy and Higgins were consensus first rounders - Cooney and Griffen were picked when we had basically finished last and had the pick of the crop...
Harbrow, Boyd and Morris were rookies.
Lake, Gilbee, Gia, Crossy, Ward and Mitch were those mid-range picks you need to hit to be successful - and it seems that we have. Time will tell whether or not the others in that category - everyone from this draft, as well as the likes of Reid, Addison, Boumann, Roughead, Wood, Jones, Stack, Hill etc - come through or not. If we have a good hit rate with those (assuming that we get something out of Everitt and Grant as high first rounders) then we will be recruiting geniuses. And will win lots of games.
Sockeye Salmon
30-01-2010, 05:18 PM
In fairness, Cooney, Griffen, Murphy and Higgins were consensus first rounders -
Higgins wasn't. He wasn't as left-field as Howard but was generally considered to be likely in the 20-40 range.
That 10-20 range does have an awful lot of misses in it anyway so that in itself makes Higgins and Murphy fantastic picks. Both would be in the best couple of their drafts.
GVGjr
30-01-2010, 05:56 PM
What sort of output would be a realistic aim for young Howard in his debut season?
Playing close to a full season in the Williamstown senior side would rate very well wouldn't it?
Bulldog Revolution
30-01-2010, 06:14 PM
What sort of output would be a realistic aim for young Howard in his debut season?
Playing close to a full season in the Williamstown senior side would rate very well wouldn't it?
I think thats the right type of goal for Howard - Playing mostly senior VFL footy and preferrably having some good games.
I wont be concerned at all if he plays some reserves footy, particularly early as he gets his hip right. I think the main thing is for his development trajectory is to be injury free and heading in the right direction as the season progresses.
He wasn't as left-field as Howard
Has any first rounder EVER been as left field as Howard?
Sockeye Salmon
31-01-2010, 01:59 AM
Has any first rounder EVER been as left field as Howard?
Luke Molan?
LostDoggy
31-01-2010, 09:26 AM
Molan was touted as a player likely to go in the second or third 'rounds. His history of injury is reminiscent of Walsh.
Luke Molan?
Yeah - maybe. But you had think hard to come up with him at least!
Go_Dogs
01-02-2010, 09:33 AM
Higgins wasn't. He wasn't as left-field as Howard but was generally considered to be likely in the 20-40 range.
That 10-20 range does have an awful lot of misses in it anyway so that in itself makes Higgins and Murphy fantastic picks. Both would be in the best couple of their drafts.
I had been under the impression that Higgins was fairly highly rated by most, and if it hadn't been for injury worries he would have probably been taken in the first half dozen.
GVGjr
01-02-2010, 10:02 AM
I had been under the impression that Higgins was fairly highly rated by most, and if it hadn't been for injury worries he would have probably been taken in the first half dozen.
That's how I remember it. Higgins was definitely touted as a potential first round pick in fact at least one side rated him in the first 6.
Go_Dogs
01-02-2010, 03:17 PM
That's how I remember it. Higgins was definitely touted as a potential first round pick in fact at least one side rated him in the first 6.
Yes, the Hawks were surely very keen and having just checked the Burgatron from 2005, he named Higgins going to Hawthorn at Pick 6, but for some fortunate reason they selected Ellis and Dowler (along with Birchall, Bailey and Muston inside the top 22 :eek: ) and we walked away with Higgins.
Back on Howard, I think what you mentioned earlier GVGjr is spot on. A season in the VFL seniors would be a good goal, and as form/injuries dictate, perhaps an opportunity for a taste of AFL would be great, but by no means should that determine whether he had a successful season.
Throughandthrough
01-02-2010, 11:51 PM
Have finally got around to watching teh replay of the 2009 U18 SANFL Grand FInal. Am about half way thru the second half and Howard's done nothing at all :) apart from a nice goal from a set shot.
Is a great game of footy to watch tho.
LostDoggy
02-02-2010, 01:57 PM
Has any first rounder EVER been as left field as Howard?
Tom Williams?
GVGjr
02-02-2010, 02:34 PM
Tom Williams?
Not really, he was in the mix by a few clubs.
The thing about Howard was that with only 2 more picks in the first round we would be reasonably safe in assuming that the other sides weren't interested in him. I might be wrong but it looks like we were the only side that had him in the top 20.
I guess if we could have got a pick around the mid 20's we might have taken the chance and selected him there.
LostDoggy
02-02-2010, 03:14 PM
Not really, he was in the mix by a few clubs.
For the first round?
LostDoggy
02-02-2010, 03:23 PM
The thing about Howard was that with only 2 more picks in the first round we would be reasonably safe in assuming that the other sides weren't interested in him. I might be wrong but it looks like we were the only side that had him in the top 20.
I guess if we could have got a pick around the mid 20's we might have taken the chance and selected him there.
How could we safely assume that?
It is possible surely (although perhaps unlikely) that every side had him positioned precisely where we did. In which case, he would have gone to the next call.
If clubs are selecting "best possible" all players are rated. How do we assume that other clubs rated him differently to ourselves?
I guess the issue comes back to how we assess each player. Where an individul sits with other cliubs is largely irrelevant. We got who we wanted so we're happy.
For the first round?
Pretty sure I read somewhere Brisbane(and someone else?) would have taken him with their first round pick(Brisbane pick 18), with our next pick being 22.
GVGjr
02-02-2010, 03:52 PM
For the first round?
Yes. I think the Hawks had him penciled in for pick 7 if they missed on Franklin at 5.
GVGjr
02-02-2010, 03:58 PM
How could we safely assume that?
It is possible surely (although perhaps unlikely) that every side had him positioned precisely where we did. In which case, he would have gone to the next call.
I believe that McMillian-Pittard and Menzel were as good as locks by the Power and Geelong rounding out the first round.
Melbourne wanted a bigger bodied and more genuine midfielder in Tapscott, the Tigers were committed to big Ben Griffen after getting Martin early and unless Fremantle were going to overlook the local boy in Fyfe (unlikely) it completes the first 20 picks.
I think it's a fair, almost safe, assumption.
Mantis
02-02-2010, 04:03 PM
The thing about Howard was that with only 2 more picks in the first round we would be reasonably safe in assuming that the other sides weren't interested in him. I might be wrong but it looks like we were the only side that had him in the top 20.
I guess if we could have got a pick around the mid 20's we might have taken the chance and selected him there.
Didn't we do this to death after the draft??
GVGjr
02-02-2010, 04:06 PM
Didn't we do this to death after the draft??
A question was asked and an answer provided. Not something that has to be confined to draft day
Go_Dogs
02-02-2010, 04:09 PM
I think it's a fair, almost safe, assumption.
But, following your scenario, if we traded player X and got pick 21, and intended to take Howard with that selection, whose to say that we wouldn't have pinched J M-P or Menzel at 15 and maybe forced Port or Geelong's hand, who in turn then chose Howard as the next best according to their best available/needs policy?
GVGjr
02-02-2010, 04:28 PM
But, following your scenario, if we traded player X and got pick 21, and intended to take Howard with that selection, whose to say that we wouldn't have pinched J M-P or Menzel at 15 and maybe forced Port or Geelong's hand, who in turn then chose Howard as the next best according to their best available/needs policy?
Its an assumption based on some details that have surfaced after the draft but yes you are right and things can change. I can't also assume 100% that Richmond didn't have Howard at 6 but Griffen at 5 but it seems unlikely.
Sedat
02-02-2010, 10:14 PM
Has any first rounder EVER been as left field as Howard?
Wasn't Mackie very left field at the time? From memory, he only played half a reserves game at SANFL level before being drafted. I know that Clayton was right into him in addition to Stephen Wells, but I recall the wider football community being very surprised by his selection so high in the draft - turned out to be a very good get by the Cats.
And wasn't Luke McPharlin also a very left-field top 10 selection when the Hawks nabbed him?
Throughandthrough
02-02-2010, 10:50 PM
Wasn't Mackie very left field at the time? From memory, he only played half a reserves game at SANFL level before being drafted. I know that Clayton was right into him in addition to Stephen Wells, but I recall the wider football community being very surprised by his selection so high in the draft - turned out to be a very good get by the Cats.
Another Glenelg / Sacred Heart lad.
Throughandthrough
03-02-2010, 09:20 PM
Me again.
Watched the u18 gf replay in full, and while it's a bit tricky as there's only one camera and no commentary (and more then one "light haired" player at the Bay), from the disposals that Howard had that were definitely his he had 100% effective rate. (All were either marked by another Glenelg player or went for a goal) from not a lot of possessions.
Throughandthrough
08-02-2010, 09:23 AM
Here's something interesting
http://www.richmondfc.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/6301/newsid/89210/default.aspx
You talked about the excitement of bringing in 14 new players. What do you make of your list overall?
Hardwick: Overall I think all coaches are reasonably happy with their list - there’s always some holes, but I’m really happy with the depth of our players, but also the positional requirements that we’ve got. We addressed some crucial needs last November in the national and rookie drafts, so I’m pretty happy with where we’re at. Now it’s our job as coaches to develop that talent - we think our recruiters have done a terrific job in getting the talent in, and we felt that we only missed out on one player that we had a target for, and that guy got picked up pretty early by the Bulldogs [South Australian running defender Christian Howard was a surprise first-round pick when the Dogs grabbed him at 15].
The Coon Dog
08-02-2010, 09:36 AM
we felt that we only missed out on one player that we had a target for, and that guy got picked up pretty early by the Bulldogs [South Australian running defender Christian Howard was a surprise first-round pick when the Dogs grabbed him at 15].
Howie dodged a bullet!
LostDoggy
10-02-2010, 12:28 AM
Here's something interesting
http://www.richmondfc.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/6301/newsid/89210/default.aspx
You talked about the excitement of bringing in 14 new players. What do you make of your list overall?
Hardwick: Overall I think all coaches are reasonably happy with their list - there’s always some holes, but I’m really happy with the depth of our players, but also the positional requirements that we’ve got. We addressed some crucial needs last November in the national and rookie drafts, so I’m pretty happy with where we’re at. Now it’s our job as coaches to develop that talent - we think our recruiters have done a terrific job in getting the talent in, and we felt that we only missed out on one player that we had a target for, and that guy got picked up pretty early by the Bulldogs [South Australian running defender Christian Howard was a surprise first-round pick when the Dogs grabbed him at 15].
Hopefully that puts to rest the "we could have got him with a second round pick"
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