And so it goes.... As usual!

[EasternWest]

I'm so SICK of losing because we fail to put games beyond reach. I wonder how many newspaper reports in our tragic history reflect the theme "Dogs unable to strike killer blow". We get a lead, we dominate play, but we never, ever, never kick that final goal that breaks the other sides back. Teams know they are always a chance against us because we DO NOT and most probably CAN NOT put them away.

I'm sick of it. Sometimes I hate that I'm so attached to our team.

I still love you Dogs, I always will, but please stop breaking my heart.

[LostDoggy]

What a shocking end to the most disgusting game of football I've ever seen. I can't even be bothered getting angry. A season that promised so much is looking shaky right now.

[Scorlibo]

Can't believe we let that slip... They needed to kick 3 goals in 5 minutes when they'd kicked just 4 goals for the previous 75 minutes. Heartbreaking, absolutely heartbreaking. 3-3 looks so much worse than 4-2. We're really going to have to show our mettle for the remainder of the season.

[EasternWest]

What a shocking end to the most disgusting game of football I've ever seen. I can't even be bothered getting angry. A season that promised so much is looking shaky right now.

I'm the exact opposite. I don't usually have such visceral emotions, but we HAD to win tonight. If we are "contenders" and they are "contenders", then we had to teach them that without Riewoldt we'll squash them. Put doubt in their minds. Instead, we've inspired them with confidence and they've put doubt in our minds. God I'm pi$$ed off right now.

[easybeat]

@#*%ing guttered. What gutless effort.
Shoud'a Woud'a Gonna....had a gut full of this team.
A team unable or unwilling to live up to expectations.
Have a crack!!!. What are you scared of????......Success?

[EasternWest]

Can't believe we let that slip... They needed to kick 3 goals in 5 minutes when they'd kicked just 4 goals for the previous 75 minutes. Heartbreaking, absolutely heartbreaking. 3-3 looks so much worse than 4-2. We're really going to have to show our mettle for the remainder of the season.

And we've beaten Richmond, Adelaide and a shabby Hawthorn and lost to 3 top 8 teams.

[KT31]

More games like this and no wonder kid's are turning to soccer.

[EasternWest]

@#*%ing guttered. What gutless effort.
Shoud'a Woud'a Gonna....had a gut full of this team.
A team unable or unwilling to live up to expectations.
Have a crack!!!. What are you scared of????......Success?

Wow, great post. Spot on. In answer to your question, yes.

[Remi Moses]

@#*%ing guttered. What gutless effort.
Shoud'a Woud'a Gonna....had a gut full of this team.
A team unable or unwilling to live up to expectations.
Have a crack!!!. What are you scared of????......Success?

Here here!! This club just keeps breaking our hearts!Had a chance to make a statement tonight and as per usual get stage fright. I'm extremely annoyed and P1ssed off !

[LostDoggy]

Worst game ever!

[Remi Moses]

More games like this and no wonder kid's are turning to soccer.

Agree with your sentiments but how in blazes did we fall for this classic rope a dope tactic!

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Agree with your sentiments but how in blazes did we fall for this classic rope a dope tactic!

I'm not convinced we fell for anything rather than not take the crucial opportunities we had to put it beyond their reach.
I think the staff and players all knew that the Saints being 3 goals behind in a very low scoring game, would have to try and sieze the initiative and score quickly, we just failed to execute, again.

[Dry Rot]

Radio call said that both sides looked utterly buggered by the end.

Our next two games are looking shaky IMO.

[Ozza]

We were completely out on our feet with 15 minutes to go. It was pathetic - to think teh Saints had a 6 day break from an interstate game, and No Riewoldt and Gram and we still couldn't get them....

...we are just losers.

[Rocco Jones]

Radio call said that both sides looked utterly buggered by the end.

Our next two games are looking shaky IMO.

At the moment we just look a slightly better than average side, so a few games look shaky IMO. Our 3 wins have come against sides that have won 1 game between them.

[FrediKanoute]

Fuming only way to describe that loss...a wasted opportunty that really means that our season is most definitely at the crossroads. I think its time the players put away the scrapbook of preseason predictions and start realising that the time is now. A Preseason flag means nothing. Being flag favourites in February means nothing. If they don't wake up season 2010 will again be anothing season!

[Dry Rot]

At the moment we just look a slightly better than average side, so a few games look shaky IMO. Our 3 wins have come against sides that have won 1 game between them.

Good point. We have done nothing this year: got belted by two finalists and now outplayed (out coached?) by another.

[chef]

Beaten by a better team on the night. We are still a good side but not playing at our best ATM. While disappointing, it's not the end of the world and we will get better as the season goes along.

[lemmon]

Beaten by a better team on the night. We are still a good side but not playing at our best ATM. While disappointing, it's not the end of the world and we will get better as the season goes along.

Bulldust, we dominated 90% of the game and choked when the game should've been locked up. If we couldnt beat St Kilda without seemingly their only goal kicking option- we're toast.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Beaten by a better team on the night. We are still a good side but not playing at our best ATM. While disappointing, it's not the end of the world and we will get better as the season goes along.

I know Eade said it was a tough opening six weeks, and that we'd just about take being 3-3, however in the position we were in tonight, 4-2 was looking great and the way we lost could really bring some doubts into the group going forward. It was a great chance to start to slay those demons, and we were unable to.
The next two weeks against the Demons and Sydney are massively important, otherwise we could be fighting an uphill battle to push for top 4.

[LostDoggy]

I hate to say it, but it's Gia's fault. He kicks the goal from right in front instead of kicking into the player on the mark, we win. As simple as that.

[Remi Moses]

Never there when we need him

[SonofScray]

I hate to say it, but it's Gia's fault. He kicks the goal from right in front instead of kicking into the player on the mark, we win. As simple as that.

Yep. My mate called it, "that was their moment." They turn away a certain goal, keep the door open and the momentum swings....

Dominated the game, played a very safe game and got undone by the lack of finish when it counted. Low scoring, defensive affairs leave you open to the sucker punch - ie: the winning goals. It was like a 2-1 score in soccer.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I hate to say it, but it's Gia's fault.

And why not Williams? Why not Grant for kicking a relatively simple goal. Or Hall for his reversal of free kick when we had a shot on goal.
Guido had an otherwise good game, Williams on the other hand was arguably at fault for 2 goals.

I'm not singling these others out, just pointing out that it is unfair to place it all on Guido's shoulders.

[Dogz-21]

Grant missed a relatively simple set shot too...
Saints lifted to another gear in that last quarter, simply amazing...

[lemmon]

They got complacent, thought they had it in the bag and got cute. To piss up 3 quarters of hard work and slog like that appalls me. Time for some soul searching

[Greystache]

We were completely out on our feet with 15 minutes to go. It was pathetic - to think teh Saints had a 6 day break from an interstate game, and No Riewoldt and Gram and we still couldn't get them....

I can't get over how unfit we are this year, Collingwood, Brisbane, St Kilda all run completely over the top of us like we're not even there, and Adelaide have us out on our feet (according to the coach) and they're 0-5 with a team of old men. I can't imagine how badly we're going to get over run by the end of the season, shades of 2007 I'm afraid.

[KT31]

And why not Williams? Why not Grant for kicking a relatively simple goal. Or Hall for his reversal of free kick when we had a shot on goal.
Guido had an otherwise good game, Williams on the other hand was arguably at fault for 2 goals.

I'm not singling these others out, just pointing out that it is unfair to place it all on Guido's shoulders.

IMO Grant and Guido should have sealed it, they could have both closed the gate and put it beyond resonable doubt..
Both instances left Saints with a sniff.
The earlier ones are bad but it comes down to timing.

[Ozza]

I hate to say it, but it's Gia's fault. He kicks the goal from right in front instead of kicking into the player on the mark, we win. As simple as that.

You are kidding. His fault. The loss is Gia's fault?

Geez, he was bloody good tonight. Yes, he made an error near the end and got smothered. I can cop an error like that more than I can cop Williams and Hall's stupidity or Eagleton failing to show up (for a change in a big game).

We lost the game for a stack of reasons. Our overall ball use, our timidness at shooting for goal around 50, are loss of run in the legs...

If it was Gia's fault then it was as much Grant's fault for his two shots later than that, and Gilbee for his miss even later.

One action early in the last quarter doesn't make someone at 'fault'for losing a game. Thats absurd.

[Remi Moses]

Aspiring leaders should kick the vital goal when it is required!I'm tired of hearing how the players are buggered,so much for the much vaunted:confused: sandpit and having a crack fitness coach

[SonofScray]

Who is going to step up in these situations? We have no one that is going to do a Jarman in '97 or what Milne can do for the Saints.

Higgins and Gia are guys i expect to finish games, but it just doesn't happen.

[Before I Die]

I can understand disappointment from posters, but some of the disparaging remarks above are just wrong. The umps pay a holding the ball against Kosi, or one of Hall, Williams or Gia don't stuff up and we win. Suddenly all the doom and gloom above changes to roses and yet the qualtiy of the game and our performance is exactly the same. I am disappointed tonight and the four points may come back to bite us, but after attending the game tonight I think we are a much better chance for the flag than St. Kilda is.

From the first bounce they acknowledged they were outmatched and opted to simply strangle the game and roll the dice in the last 15 minutes. Tonight the dice fell their way, it was purely a matter of luck.

Chances are that if we figure in the finals, players such as Grant, Everitt, Williams and Roughead may have to play an important part. They all did their bit tonight and would have learnt a lot. Yes the four points hurt, but by the end of the round we will be one or two games outside the top four. Time to get a grip people.

[FrediKanoute]

You are kidding. His fault. The loss is Gia's fault?

Geez, he was bloody good tonight. Yes, he made an error near the end and got smothered. I can cop an error like that more than I can cop Williams and Hall's stupidity or Eagleton failing to show up (for a change in a big game).

We lost the game for a stack of reasons. Our overall ball use, our timidness at shooting for goal around 50, are loss of run in the legs...

If it was Gia's fault then it was as much Grant's fault for his two shots later than that, and Gilbee for his miss even later.

One action early in the last quarter doesn't make someone at 'fault'for losing a game. Thats absurd.

Agree.....its like blaming Libba for the 97 Prelim loss. It's so easy in hindsight. Ball over top to Johnno and the doggies are home. We'd be sitting here congratulating Gia on his vision. Better to focus on the 10 behinds we kick tonight (mostly gettable) and the numerous times we overused the handball, turned the ball over than to sigle out one person. Its a team game you win as a team and you lose as a team.

[KT31]

Agree.....its like blaming Libba for the 97 Prelim loss. It's so easy in hindsight. Ball over top to Johnno and the doggies are home. We'd be sitting here congratulating Gia on his vision. Better to focus on the 10 behinds we kick tonight (mostly gettable) and the numerous times we overused the handball, turned the ball over than to sigle out one person. Its a team game you win as a team and you lose as a team.

Why, Libba kicked the goal?

[w3design]

Agree.....its like blaming Libba for the 97 Prelim loss. It's so easy in hindsight. Ball over top to Johnno and the doggies are home. We'd be sitting here congratulating Gia on his vision. Better to focus on the 10 behinds we kick tonight (mostly gettable) and the numerous times we overused the handball, turned the ball over than to sigle out one person. Its a team game you win as a team and you lose as a team.

As well as the 10 behinds, there were several marked right on the line, that could have/should have made the distance. Hahn I think was one example? and Murphy, who now can't seem to kick a 50 metre goal, but used to be able to make that distance...

[LostDoggy]

Bulldust, we dominated 90% of the game and choked when the game should've been locked up. If we couldnt beat St Kilda without seemingly their only goal kicking option- we're toast.

Thats rubbish sorry but we were the better team, blew it, I am heart broken.

Well done HArbrow, his best game ever, deservd more.

[FrediKanoute]

Why, Libba kicked the goal?

He didn't. Simple. If he'd kicked the goal we'd have been premiers in 1997.

[LostDoggy]

I don't think we played badly. It was shades of the Prelim -- we match it with them in close, and we dominated possession. They couldn't even get out of their back half cleanly, and were kicking it out on the full pretty often.

It was Barcelona vs. Inter all over again. They don't want the ball, because that gets them out of position, they want to win back the ball ON THEIR TERMS, so they just sat back in their zone, waited for us to give the ball to them and hit us on the counter.

We just have to be smarter, and take our chances when it matters.

If we score goals instead of behinds, we win.

[GVGjr]

I don't think we played badly. It was shades of the Prelim -- we match it with them in close, and we dominate possession.

It was Barcelona vs. Inter all over again. They just sat back and hit us on the counter. We just have to be smarter, and take our chances when it matters.

If we score goals instead of behinds, we win.

I've been banging on about it for a number of weeks but I'm staggered that professional footballers miss so many easy shots and as you say tonight we had our chances.

[KT31]

He didn't. Simple. If he'd kicked the goal we'd have been premiers in 1997.

The goal umpire is on record as saying he made a mistake.
And we would have had to beat the Saints, and if you haven't been paying attention we seem to struggle in that area.

[Doc26]

He didn't. Simple. If he'd kicked the goal we'd have been premiers in 1997.

For those sitting in a position to tell, as I was in that prelim., know that Libba's shot was most certainly a goal. It was a poor umpiring decision with a huge consequence.

[LostDoggy]

I've been banging on about it for a number of weeks but I'm staggered that professional footballers miss so many easy shots and as you say tonight we had our chances.

That's probably why I'm so dirty on Gia, because his was the easiest of the lot, and he's one of our best kicks, but he didn't even go back and kick it. When chances are at such a premium, you just can't piss away opportunities like that.

[SonofScray]

The goal umpire is on record as saying he made a mistake.

:( Really? I've never heard that. Ouch.

[LostDoggy]

For those in a position to tell know that Libba's shot in the '97 prelim was a goal. It was a poor umpiring decision with a huge consequence.

I was sitting behind the goals, right behind the kick, and it went over my head. We were all celebrating, which we wouldn't have if it wasn't a goal. We're not stupid. The goal ump was out of position, ran and saw it late, and just guessed. He said later that it 'went over where the post would have been if it extended higher'. No way it did, it was past the goals before it ever got that high.

[KT31]

:( Really? I've never heard that. Ouch.

Understatement!

[GVGjr]

That's probably why I'm so dirty on Gia, because his was the easiest of the lot, and he's one of our best kicks, but he didn't even go back and kick it. When chances are at such a premium, you just can't piss away opportunities like that.

Pressure, fatigue or just a lack of confidence? I don't know what the answer is but it must be as frustrating for the coach as it is for us.

[angelopetraglia]

I don't think we played badly. It was shades of the Prelim -- we match it with them in close, and we dominated possession. They couldn't even get out of their back half cleanly, and were kicking it out on the full pretty often.

It was Barcelona vs. Inter all over again. They don't want the ball, because that gets them out of position, they want to win back the ball ON THEIR TERMS, so they just sat back in their zone, waited for us to give the ball to them and hit us on the counter.

We just have to be smarter, and take our chances when it matters.

If we score goals instead of behinds, we win.

Agree. Good post. But AFL football never used to be like this. If you failed to create you had no chance.

That we are now comparing AFL to the world game is a great concern. I'm a great lover of the world game, but I loved that AFL is different. I loved the differences between the games. The tactics are merging into one.

Saint Football reminds me of the Catenaccio football that most world football fans despise.

[Stefcep]

No-one has pointed the finger at Eade yet. He had four quarters to change the game and did nothing but let the players play into the Saints hands.

[Rocco Jones]

No-one has pointed the finger at Eade yet. He had four quarters to change the game and did nothing but let the players play into the Saints hands.

I actually thought Eade was strong/we were strong tactically for the vast majority of the game. You have to be patient with the Saints super counter attack style. Try to be too attacking/bomb it and they burn you. If we put away a few chances (can't really blame Eade) we would have had a strong enough lead to force them out of their holes.

We lost it in the last 15 minutes due to fatigue and errors. Eade can't kick/mark it for them.

[LostDoggy]

No-one has pointed the finger at Eade yet. He had four quarters to change the game and did nothing but let the players play into the Saints hands.

To be fair, we were winning.

[KT31]

To be fair, we were winning.
To be honest, we lost.

[Bulldog4life]

I actually thought Eade was strong/we were strong tactically for the vast majority of the game. You have to be patient with the Saints super counter attack style. Try to be too attacking/bomb it and they burn you. If we put away a few chances (can't really blame Eade) we would have had a strong enough lead to force them out of their holes.

We lost it in the last 15 minutes due to fatigue and errors. Eade can't kick/mark it for them.

This seems to be a weekly occurence. A worry when we are only into round 6.

[bornadog]

I hate to say it, but it's Gia's fault. He kicks the goal from right in front instead of kicking into the player on the mark, we win. As simple as that.

and Gilbee nails it and we win it, and Grant nails it and we win it.

[Stefcep]

To be fair, we were winning.


Only on the scoreboard. In the 3rd they had more inside 50's.

IMO when we are restricted to 46 points in 120 minutes where we usually get over 100, then they won the tactical battle.

[Bulldog4life]

and Gilbee nails it and we win it, and Grant nails it and we win it.

I was more disappointed with Grant's second shot on goal in the last quarter. He was about 55 to 60 metres from goal and decided to have a shot. He missed Everitt who was standing by himself in the pocket 30 metres from goal. A terrible decision seeing especially how he is not a super long kick.

[KT31]

This seems to be a weekly occurence. A worry when we are only into round 6.

Especially as we are an aging side and need to get wins on the board early to rest players.

[Bulldog4life]

Especially as we are an aging side and need to get wins on the board early to rest players.

Is this why we are fatigued I wonder?

[KT31]

Is this why we are fatigued I wonder?

Part of it but I think the loss of Ward is underated.

[angelopetraglia]

Is this why we are fatigued I wonder?

Was it fatigue or some stupid decisions and lazy skill execution. It didn't look like we run out of legs, more lost our heads.

Missed goals we should have kicked.

Passed when we should have had a shot.

When short through the middle of the corridor when we should have chose a better option.

etc.

[AndrewP6]

Beaten by a better team on the night. We are still a good side but not playing at our best ATM. While disappointing, it's not the end of the world and we will get better as the season goes along.

We weren't beaten, we gave them the win. We stuffed around, wasted chances, and failed to capitalise on opportunities. The game was ours, and we gave it back. More than disappointing, it points to some deep-seated flaws within the group. The season is almost a third done, and we just keep saying we'll get better.

[Bulldog4life]

We weren't beaten, we gave them the win. We stuffed around, wasted chances, and failed to capitalise on opportunities. The game was ours, and we gave it back. More than disappointing, it points to some deep-seated flaws within the group. The season is almost a third done, and we just keep saying we'll get better.

Agree with this. We are not playing as well as last year. There is nothing to indicate that we will play as well as last year. Teams go up and down the ladder when you least expect it. Hopefully we are as good a team as we think we are. Maybe though we're not.

[chef]

Bulldust, we dominated 90% of the game and choked when the game should've been locked up. If we couldnt beat St Kilda without seemingly their only goal kicking option- we're toast.

I don't agree with any of that.

[EasternWest]

All these comments are well and good, but nobody has answered why, WHY, WHY can't we ever ice a game?

[LostDoggy]

All these comments are well and good, but nobody has answered why, WHY, WHY can't we ever ice a game?

Cos we suck! hehe Just kidding. But its getting beyond a joke now. When are we going to start playing like a flag favorite!?

Maybe we should not keep a lid on it and be like Collingwood. Maybe that will work for us more.

[Go_Dogs]

Our inability to prevent easy goals being scored against us has hurt us again. As BAD mentioned in his thread this week, although we have a pretty strong back 6 opposition sides can still get a run on against us. That they managed to kick 3 goals in such a short space of time is very disappointing.

Some of our players showed terrific desperation, (Harbrow being an obvious one I can recall) but at times we either didn't commit enough, or over committed and that allowed St Kilda to create their opportunities. It was almost as if they knew if they were within striking distance, they could get over the line against us. They just grinded away all night, and then pounced.

As other posters have said, the most disappointing aspect is that, once again, we were able to match it with them - at their game style mind you - for 95% of the match, but not walk away with the points.



Those who were at the game, did we flood numbers back after the Saints 1st or 2nd goal in the last?

[lemmon]

I don't agree with any of that.

Can I ask why?

[Stefcep]

The obvious difference last night was the way their defense at the start of the last quarter stood firm and would not even concede a point. Instead they were willing to play out from the back, and they seem to do what Geelong does so well: always have an option, always take the ball cleanly and quickly-this in particular- find a team mate with an accurate handball. The way their defenders were able to make 5 or 7 handballs in quick succession in tight with lots of pressure and still not turnover I thought was a glaring difference. The decision making speed under pressure was faster than ours.

[Templeton31]

All these comments are well and good, but nobody has answered why, WHY, WHY can't we ever ice a game?

now that i've calmed a little bit (only a little ;)) I can answer this by saying that sometimes we can ice a game. I can think of Brissy last year, Collingwood last year and if I tried harder I could probably think of plenty more. I wish we had last night but i dont think its right to say we cant ice games ever.

[LostDoggy]

Smells like 2007 to me...

[Flamethrower]

I don't think there was anything wrong with our tactics against "Saints footy AKA the cure for insomnia". We lost for a few different reasons.

- We didn't take our chances in the 2nd and 4th quarters kicking 1.7.
- Our structure broke down late in the last quarter. With the Saints needing 3 goals in 5 minutes, we should have had a wall of Brian Lake, Ryan Hargrave (on Milne) and Dale Morris across the back line, so that when Tom Williams turns the ball over there is a wall of defenders to stop Milne kicking an easy goal.
- There were a few times when Baz was 1 out with Zac Dawson as we were moving the ball down field. We need to get the ball to Grif, Harbrow or Lindsay to kick it over the zone to this contest before Gilbert/Blake/Fisher can drop back to help out.
- When there is a slow build up and we are kicking the ball across the field we need to find a way to isolate Grif, Gilbee, Harbrow and Eagle so that they can run onto a handball or short kick about 60 out to have a long shot for goal. Even if they don't score, if they do it often enough hopefully it will pull the Saints zone apart and leave space for a pass to one of the forwards.
- As much as the Saints missed their captain and Jason Gram, this game was taylor made for Matty Boyd, Liam Picken, Cal Ward and Brodie Moles.

[Bulldog4life]

Smells like 2007 to me...

Let's hope not. Rocket is on record of saying that anything less than a GF appearance this year will be unacceptable. Not going to be easy to get there if we lose the unlosable games like we did last night.

[Doc26]

- As much as the Saints missed their captain and Jason Gram, this game was taylor made for Matty Boyd, Liam Picken, Cal Ward and Brodie Moles.

We missed our All Australian clearance and inside 50 champ in a big way last night. Sure, we are only as good as the side that runs out on the night, but Boydy missing should'nt be understated in a tight game like that.

As is typical very little media comment when a Bulldog player is out injured. Take Judd out of Carlton or in last night's game, a Hayes out of St Kilda, and see the effect it has.

[comrade]

Smells like 2007 to me...

Or 2009 when we had exactly the same win-loss ratio but had been defeated by riff raff like Carlton and West Coast??

No one can be happy about last night, but to say that this is like 2007 doesn't make sense.

[The Pie Man]

The goal umpire is on record as saying he made a mistake.


Really? I've never heard/read that

:mad:

I was at the top of the Southern in the pocket that looked down the ground towards to Ponsford end, and it did look to me like it had gone over the post, but if the ump's on record saying he made a mistake.....who'dve thought my mood could get any worse today :rolleyes:

[chef]

Can I ask why?

Yeah sorry, was in a bit of a rush this morning.

I didn't think we dominated that much of the game(it was an arm wrestle), I don't think we choked(that's not how I saw it anyway) and I believe the Saints are still a bloody good side even without Roo(they are probably still the best team in the comp) and were not toast. We will be 8 and 3 in 5 weeks time IMO.

[angelopetraglia]

Yeah sorry, was in a bit of a rush this morning.

I didn't think we dominated that much of the game(it was an arm wrestle), I don't think we choked(that's not how I saw it anyway) and I believe the Saints are still a bloody good side even without Roo(they are probably still the best team in the comp) and were not toast. We will be 8 and 3 in 5 weeks time IMO.

I hope so.

[LostDoggy]

Like most Woofers, I was so disappointed last night - managed to pick up the game on Melbourne radio up here, and it sounded like a dour struggle - very ugly footy? I could have thrown the radio through the window with 5 mins to go.............. and then i went to bed and tried to make the pain go away!

In the cold light of day, I think I am just as disappointed and perhaps worried that maybe, just maybe we aren't as good I as I thought we were. It seems we are running out of legs/stamina in the last quarter, when last year, our 4th quarters were terrific. I felt confident that we would be able to hold on and win, but the game just seemed to slip through our fingeers. Hard to tell from listening to the radio, but all your posts tell me the same story:mad:

I guess I've just got to hold the faith, and I'd have to believe that if I feel this bad, I can't begin to imagine how the players feel? C'mon doggies, stand and deliver - I don't want to see this season slip away from all of us!

[Bulldog4life]

Or 2009 when we had exactly the same win-loss ratio but had been defeated by riff raff like Carlton and West Coast??

No one can be happy about last night, but to say that this is like 2007 doesn't make sense.

That's true. The difference this year seems to be that we are not running out the games like we did last year.I have heard Rocket used the word fatigued to describe our last quarters in a couple of matches already this year.Got no idea why this is the case especially after Aker said this was the most intense pre season he ever has done...or words to that effect. Also it is only round 6.

[lemmon]

Yeah sorry, was in a bit of a rush this morning.

I didn't think we dominated that much of the game(it was an arm wrestle), I don't think we choked(that's not how I saw it anyway) and I believe the Saints are still a bloody good side even without Roo(they are probably still the best team in the comp) and were not toast. We will be 8 and 3 in 5 weeks time IMO.

Fair enough, I felt that we had the majority of the play but failed to capitalise on the amount of ball we had. Didn't move the footy fast enough or take enough risks.

[alwaysadog]

I'm the exact opposite. I don't usually have such visceral emotions, but we HAD to win tonight. If we are "contenders" and they are "contenders", then we had to teach them that without Riewoldt we'll squash them. Put doubt in their minds. Instead, we've inspired them with confidence and they've put doubt in our minds. God I'm pi$$ed off right now.

I'm not happy either, but I wonder if they aren't trying too hard, sometimes you can undo all your good work by making it mean too much. Think of those shots for goal we keep missing.

Reminds me of when I played sport as a kid and the catches didn't stick at cricket if I wasn't relaxed and early on shots for goal at football went anywhere but where intended if the pressure was too high. I learnt to create perspective and it solved the problem but in the AFL hothouse it all sheep stations stuff.

In the end it doesn't matter what other teams think or feel, what matters is how we deal with the things we can control. I'd like to think about now our coaching staff were having a new look and engaging in some lateral thinking about our ongoing problem.

[MrMahatma]

IMO Grant and Guido should have sealed it, they could have both closed the gate and put it beyond resonable doubt..
Both instances left Saints with a sniff.
The earlier ones are bad but it comes down to timing.

If Hall hadn't had that free reversed Gilbee would've kicked the goal and at that stage it could've been the end.

3 avoidable errors on the night cost us potentially 18 points (potenitially 3 to be fair).

Williams - Milne may still have kicked it.
Hall - Gilbee may have missed
Gia - Still could've missed it.

But in all likelihood - we'd have won had our boys done the smart thing in each situation.

[LostDoggy]

Can't keep giving a team like the Saints chances to win. They narrowly missed at least two or three goals in that final quarter. Players like Gia should kick those goals (or at least go back and have the bloody opportunity!!!). There is no excuse. Take the bloody mark, kick the goal from that distance. Would have iced the game.

Thought Harbrow was outstanding - didn't get the switch passes that Gilbee and others got down back. he got his ball and danced and tackled like a man possessed.

I hope Eade runs the arse off these boys this week. I'd take a loss next week, due to a relevant excuse of exhaustion, just so these nancies know they're alive.

Still guttered!!!

[LostDoggy]

Gia's cost us the game, plain and simple. You can bang on about other players who made critical errors in the game, they are not vice captains who are expected to sum up a situation and use leadership to make the best decision. He is a fantastic finisher and I cannot for the life of me understand why he would not take a breath go back and put a knife in the heart oif those ****s! Instead he manages to surpass Will for top honours in the art of stupidity on the footy field!!!!

The fact is, that moment in the game would of broke St Kilda's back and we probably would of won by 30 odd in the end. Sure, Grant (3 AFL games) missed his shot, but at least he summed up the situation and realised that it was his duty to go back and have a shot, something our vice captain couldn't seem to sum up. GIa's (200 odd games) brain fade results in St Kilda going up, kicking a goal and the momentum completely shifts!

Johnson running back into the square screaming for the ball certainly did not help. Questions needed to be asked of him, his need to get on the scoresheet may have superseeded what was best for the team which is really very sad! Johno is a shadow of his former self and at the moment it seems like we are nursing him through. His skills are atrocious and he is a step and a half behind the play. I know I'll get shot down for critising Johno, but I don't believe he is fit and prob should not be in the side.


Furthermore, I've read posts on both websites calling for the coaches head due to his game plan. His game plan had us up by 4 goals with 7 minutes to go, it is not his fault that our leaders are incompetant and do not know how to sum up certain situations. Gia was one and Barry Hall fighting in the goal square was equally as stupid.

I hear Eade speak about belief in this group every time he is one the radio and I am begining to wonder whether this group has mistaken belief for hope. If they truly do believe they are not showing it as always it is left to too few to do the work of many.

I still feel sick 3 days after the fact, I haven't felt that bad after a loss in some time!

[Sedat]

I still feel sick 3 days after the fact, I haven't felt that bad after a loss in some time!
I only have to go back 7 matches to find a worse one.

[LostDoggy]

Home and away, I should of specified.

[chef]

Gia's cost us the game, plain and simple. You can bang on about other players who made critical errors in the game, they are not vice captains who are expected to sum up a situation and use leadership to make the best decision. He is a fantastic finisher and I cannot for the life of me understand why he would not take a breath go back and put a knife in the heart oif those ****s. Instead he manages to surpass Will for top honours in the art of stupidity on the footy field!!!!

The fact is, that moment in the game would of broke St Kilda's back and we probably would of won by 30 odd in the end. Sure, Grant (3 AFL games) missed his shot, but at least he summed up the situation and realised that it was his duty to go back and have a shot, something our vice captain couldn't seem to sum up. GIa's (200 odd games) brain fade results in St Kilda going up, kicking a goal and the momentum completely shifts!

Johnson running back into the square screaming for the ball certainly did not help. Questions needed to be asked of him, his need to get on the scoresheet may have superseeded what was best for the team which is really very sad! Johno is a shadow of his former self and at the moment it seems like we are nursing him through. His skills are atrocious and he is a step and a half behind the play. I know I'll get shot down for critising Johno, but I don't believe he is fit and prob should not be in the side.


Furthermore, I've read posts on both websites calling for the coaches head due to his game plan. His game plan had us up by 4 goals with 7 minutes to go, it is not his fault that our leaders are incompetant and do not know how to sum up certain situations. Gia was one and Barry Hall fighting in the goal square was equally as stupid.

I hear Eade speak about belief in this group every time he is one the radio and I am begining to wonder whether this group has mistaken belief for hope. If they truly do believe they are not showing it as always it is left to too few to do the work of many.

I still feel sick 3 days after the fact, I haven't felt that bad after a loss in some time!

No he didn't.

[Mantis]

No he didn't.

Why quote all the dialogue when you are referring to the 1st line?

If Gia kicked the goal or we kick a goal from that piece of play we win.... It's that simple.

[LostDoggy]

No he didn't.

Ah, yeah he did!

I mean, you could also blame Barry for reversing the 50, however, I place Gia up a cog because he is our vice captain, the best finisher in league and there is no credible excuse why he tried to do what he did. It began the momentum shift St Kilda's way and the rest is history.

Fact is, our game has us up by four goals and also out on our feet. We were spent and there was no way we were gonna stop a run on which added even more weight to Gia sealing the deal.

So, yes he did!

[chef]

Why quote all the dialogue when you are referring to the 1st line?

If Gia kicked the goal or we kick a goal from that piece of play we win.... It's that simple.

It's not that simple.

If Hahn doesn't miss Williams with a 10 meter kick in the middle of the ground(when he should have handballed) we would have won. There's probably about 1000 things we could have done differently which would have made us win the game.

[chef]

Ah, yeah he did!

I mean, you could also blame Barry for reversing the 50, however, I place Gia up a cog because he is our vice captain, the best finisher in league and there is no credible excuse why he tried to do what he did. It began the momentum shift St Kilda's way and the rest is history.

Fact is, our game has us up by four goals and also out on our feet. We were spent and there was no way we were gonna stop a run on which added even more weight to Gia sealing the deal.

So, yes he did!

Nah, don't agree.

[LostDoggy]

It's not that simple.

If Hahn doesn't miss Williams with a 10 meter kick in the middle of the ground(when he should have handballed) we would have won. There's probably about 1000 things we could have done differently which would have made us win the game.

The difference is, Gia had earned the right to stop, go back, chew the clock, give his team mates a breather, pull his socks up, throw some grass in the air and kick the goal. A leader should understand critical moments in the game and there was none more critical in terms of fatigue levels on his team mates and knowing that the goal would kill St Kilda off.

Sometimes it is as simple as pointing the blame at someone and hoping they learn from it. A skill error is far more forgivable than a blatant poor decision under no pressure from our stand in captain.

[chef]

Sometimes it is as simple as pointing the blame at someone and hoping they learn from it. A skill error is far more forgivable than a blatant poor decision under no pressure from our stand in captain.

I don't agree with that in a team game over 120 minutes. Gia's wasn't the only or worst mistake on the night.

[bornadog]

The difference is, Gia had earned the right to stop, go back, chew the clock, give his team mates a breather, pull his socks up, throw some grass in the air and kick the goal. A leader should understand critical moments in the game and there was none more critical in terms of fatigue levels on his team mates and knowing that the goal would kill St Kilda off.

Sometimes it is as simple as pointing the blame at someone and hoping they learn from it. A skill error is far more forgivable than a blatant poor decision under no pressure from our stand in captain.

The trouble is, we don't know whether Gia would have kicked it. We do know that Hahns bad pass to Williams resulted in a turnover and an easy goal. Why he decided to go back into the corridor when the entire back half except Milne and Morris had pushed into our forward line. It was a dangerous move and one that needed to be deadly accurate.

[Mantis]

It's not that simple.

If Hahn doesn't miss Williams with a 10 meter kick in the middle of the ground(when he should have handballed) we would have won. There's probably about 1000 things we could have done differently which would have made us win the game.

That piece of play happened very late in the game when we were really under the pump.

The Gia 'stuff up' happened when were still in control of general play and this goal would have taken the margin out to 20+ points and would have iced the game.

[bornadog]

That piece of play happened very late in the game when we were really under the pump.

The Gia 'stuff up' happened when were still in control of general play and this goal would have taken the margin out to 20+ points and would have iced the game.

if he had of kicked it.

[chef]

That piece of play happened very late in the game when we were really under the pump.

The Gia 'stuff up' happened when were still in control of general play and this goal would have taken the margin out to 20+ points and would have iced the game.

That's just the way I see it. Bornadog seems to have summed up my thoughts perfectly.

Gilbee, Grant, Gia and Higgins all missed goals they should have kicked in the last quarter, I just don't like(or agree with) the idea that one player or one piece of play cost us the whole match.

[LostDoggy]

if he had of kicked it.

He still would of taken time off the clock and given our blokes a breather, a chance to set up and keep the ball locked our forward line a little longer. It's more so his decision to play on rather than if he kicked it is the point I'm trying to make.

By the way, I put my money on him kicking that goal every day of the week.

[bornadog]

He still would of taken time off the clock and given our blokes a breather, a chance to set up and keep the ball locked our forward line a little longer. It's more so his decision to play on rather than if he kicked it is the point I'm trying to make.

By the way, I put my money on him kicking that goal every day of the week.

Of course that would have been great, and Gia should have had a shot and perhaps put us 20 odd points up. However, that one incident did not lose us the game.

[Mantis]

if he had of kicked it.

He would have been no more than 30m out on a slight angle.

He would have kicked it.

[EasternWest]

now that i've calmed a little bit (only a little ;)) I can answer this by saying that sometimes we can ice a game. I can think of Brissy last year, Collingwood last year and if I tried harder I could probably think of plenty more. I wish we had last night but i dont think its right to say we cant ice games ever.

If my memory serves me rightly, in the game against the Bears last year they went on a run late in the third and nearly caught us then (I remember not being pleased that we won, but annoyed because we just scraped home after having a commanding lead).

I guess I should have been clearer with what I meant by icing a game because your reference to the Collingwood game is right and it was a good victory, but that had been a fairly close game all throughout.

But what I really mean is why do we not finish teams when we're X amount in front? We seem to get to the point where it could go either way (we squash them, or we let them back in) and it feels like we almost never just put the foot on their throats.

[LostDoggy]

Question: When is it that a player is at fault for losing a game? E.g 5 points down, mark in goal square, siren blows, player goes back and misses from straight in front. Judging by some posters this wouldn't qualify.

If some argue that it can't be Gia, or Hall or Williams or whoever, then what can actually be fixed. What can be identified and prevented (at least) from happening next week or the week after?

When will the responsibility for losing a game be held by the players?

[AndrewP6]

Question: When is it that a player is at fault for losing a game? E.g 5 points down, mark in goal square, siren blows, player goes back and misses from straight in front. Judging by some posters this wouldn't qualify.

If some argue that it can't be Gia, or Hall or Williams or whoever, then what can actually be fixed. What can be identified and prevented (at least) from happening next week or the week after?

When will the responsibility for losing a game be held by the players?

In a game where there are many instances that cost goals, led to turnovers etc... it is unfair to point the finger at one player for the loss. If no other errors were made, no turnovers committed, no opportunities missed, then maybe that one player could be blamed. But when there are a number of incidents, it's simply unfair. The responsibility should be (and I'm sure it is) held by the players - as a collective group. They all take the blame for the loss, and each individual works to correct errors in skill and/or decision making. Then they work on those things as a team. You don't apportion blame to individuals - that's not how any team I played in did it, anyway.

[LostDoggy]

In a game where there are many instances that cost goals, led to turnovers etc... it is unfair to point the finger at one player for the loss. If no other errors were made, no turnovers committed, no opportunities missed, then maybe that one player could be blamed. But when there are a number of incidents, it's simply unfair. The responsibility should be (and I'm sure it is) held by the players - as a collective group. They all take the blame for the loss, and each individual works to correct errors in skill and/or decision making. Then they work on those things as a team. You don't apportion blame to individuals - that's not how any team I played in did it, anyway.

From a players' perspective, and yes, from what the coach tells the team, it IS a team effort, but believe me, coaches zero in on INDIVIDUAL players like nothing else when selecting the team, developing tactical plans, and planning for the future. Of course player combinations and track records are paramount in this analysis, but if a coach isn't singling out players (in analysis, if not in the way he communicates this to the team) and coaching them through crucial moments/mistakes in the match, then they are not doing their job.

I agree with you though that responsibility for a win/loss should be collective. My vent in the Gia thread was a fan's rhetoric, not a sportsperson's.

[Mofra]

I mean, you could also blame Barry for reversing the 50, however, I place Gia up a cog because he is our vice captain, the best finisher in league and there is no credible excuse why he tried to do what he did. It began the momentum shift St Kilda's way and the rest is history.
So a vice-Captian who splits his time between forward & midfield who was making the play (albeit poorly) is worse than a Premiership Captain getting sucked in off the ball and reversing a 35m shot on goal from our best kick?

Can't agree. I wouldn't blame simply one player for the loss, but in terms of culpability Hall's action was worse than Gia's.

Cross' inability to execute a simple handball on more than one occasion is a far more worrying sign anyway.