Everitt

[Swoop]

Rightly or wrongly I have recently taken exception to the treatment of Everitt and his inability to get a game ahead of others.

I am not happy with the precedent we have set with selection and I think we are sending a poor message to our younger players, this message goes deeper than our week to week performances, it affects the fabric and culture of our club.

It appears the coaches are happy to show faith in our experienced players despite continually performing poorly yet our younger players i.e. Everitt are not given the same luxuries. It is hard to argue that he doesn't have the runs on the board when he is not given the opportunity, he was good before his injury and others have been poor since but for some reason he is on the outer.

How can our young players flourish without opportunity and more importantly without the confidence and support shown in them? Yet after the game Eade will complain the players are afraid of making mistakes and not being adventurous, perhaps the same philosophy should be adopted at selection.

I look at Sam Power and can see that somewhere between his drafting and trading he never fulfilled his potential, as we're all aware there are many factors that contribute to a players development that range from the club, the player as well as the environment. My biggest concern is that I believe one of the main reasons Sam Power never flourished is because he suffered from a fear of failure. He was a player who continually took the safe option and never took the risk and as such never reaped the rewards. In the past few weeks I have been hearing the same message used by our very coach when describing the teams overall performances. Unfortunately at the moment I look at Everitt and fear that he is slowly following the same path as Sam Power, a player who could play all positions but couldn't establish himself in any, a player who the coaches rated but struggled to identify how to utilise, a player who lacked in confidence due to the lack of confidence shown in him.

As Bulldog supporters we cry out for loyalty and despise the likes of Nathan Brown for leaving for a better offer and fear Harbrow leaving for GC yet as a club do we really show loyalty to players once they become surplus to our needs? I completely understand why someone like Everitt would look elsewhere for better career opportunities, at the end of the day this is his livelihood and he needs to look after his own best interests. As a club we did not want to lose Everitt last year out of fear of what he could become elsewhere yet we are happy to let him rot away in the reserves, in fact sometimes I think they would be happier that he stayed with us and never made it instead of being traded and becoming a genuine success elsewhere.

For better or worse I thought I would throw my thoughts out there to be scrutinised for the sake of conversation and argument. What are your thoughts on Everitt? Are we not utilising him correctly? Where should he be playing?

I would love to hear your thoughts on this topic as I value the opinion of others on this forum highly. Go Dogs!

[LostDoggy]

IMO Evs value to this team is unsurpassed by any other youngster around his age. This is due to the fact that i believe he can play/has the ability to play at both ends of the ground as a third best defender option and the equivalent forward option. He can also spend time through the wings, and we've seen him pinch hit the ruck before.

He may still get a game this week so it may be jumping the gun a little Swoop, but i feel your frustration with the messages Eade conveys after a game, and then those sent out when the teams are finalised the following week.

I, and most others, understand that you can't bring in , for example, a Sam Reid to play a Barry Hall role. When you have a player that obviously has the ability to change positions, and give a reasonable account of himself in those positions, and he's not given a game when ability and form would suggest otherwise, it sends a message that 'favouritism' may be a factor - the Ricky Ponting syndrome.

We've seen Hahn lose form, Stack drop off in the last couple of weeks, Addison have little impact, the game move past Eagleton yet no changes have been forthcoming for the younger brigade.

Maybe there's something he has done. maybe there's a reason he's being ignored. Here's hoping he gets a game this week because playing the ageing and underperforming week-in, week-out with seemingly less than a slap on the wrist gets to the younger playing group outside the seniors, as well as the supporters.

[LostDoggy]

I cant believe the guy doesn't play more regularly, he is more talented than at least 6 guys out there at the moment. He should be in the team, our team is weaker without him, we will lose him and nearly did last year. He is more flexible than the majority of our team. How does this cr@p happen when we have people struggling and the team is losing and we have injuries. Everitt should have been part of our 2010 premiership plans from season start.

[Sockeye Salmon]

I understand why they think like they do. I don't know where he would play either. A tall who can't play tall and a runner who can't run. I think he's a bit like an all-rounder who averages 28 with the bat and 32 with the ball.

Having said that, I can't think of an area where he doesn't offer more than Mitch Hahn.

[LostDoggy]

here here

We need Everitt in the team, not playing for Williamstown, especially when there are players in the team who should have been dropped some time ago

[Doc26]

I understand why they think like they do. I don't know where he would play either. A tall who can't play tall and a runner who can't run. I think he's a bit like an all-rounder who averages 28 with the bat and 32 with the ball.

Having said that, I can't think of an area where he doesn't offer more than Mitch Hahn.

That would be very close to Michael Johnson's test average and hasn't stopped him holding down a place in the eleven.

Dre must be a better option than persevering with Eagleton and Mitch who are at best now flat trackers. If we were to consecutively play four top teams pre finals, as we may need to assuming we make the 8, these two would get shown up, unfortunately we don't which only masks the problem.

[Mofra]

I can understand the "Jack of all trades, master of none" perception of Skinny, but I don't recall him having an extended run forward at any stage so I'm not sure we can say that with total certainty.

I would love to have him running long leads, even if it meant he's just creating space behind him for a Hall or Grant to lead into. If he gets the ball high up the ground, his disposal is very good so is likely to hurt teams with the inside 50s.

He will force an opposition tall to take him and is flexible enough to provide a plan B when things aren't going our way. In addition, I think we will see a trend towards tall midfielders in coming years, and he could provide a run with option against the 6 foot 3+ mids that will start creeping into the game.

[LostDoggy]

I feel this does not just apply to Everitt. It's been like this with Eade the whole time. The only thing is its not so obvious when your going OK. However when the teams is poor and certain players like Hanh can't do the job any more it makes it very frustrating. The fact is Grant is doing more than Stack, Hanh, Gia and Eagleton. His attack on the Ball is better and with his athleticism he creates opportunities that older players just can't do any more. Lets put some of the next breed in and give them long enough to get use to the pace and if form does not warrant then drop them. Now if Stack plays this week we cannot argue that Eade does not show faith. The simple point is Eade plays favorites.

[BulldogBelle]

I agree entirely with the sentiments expressed by Swoop regarding Everitt.

Surely he has to get a gig before Addison-dud and Stack-dud.

Everitt appears to have great potential.

I would love to hear Eade's reason why Everitt doesn't get a game as often as we think that he should. What is going on? Probably just dumb-ass coach Eade.

[Remi Moses]

Fair and reasonable until Sam Power entered the discussion. Sam got another chance at North and just didn't cut the mustard,poor kick poor decision maker who had plenty of chances at both clubs.Love to see Everitt and Wood get an extended run in the side.

[Remi Moses]

I agree entirely with the sentiments expressed by Swoop regarding Everitt.

Surely he has to get a gig before Addison-dud and Stack-dud.

Everitt appears to have great potential.

I would love to hear Eade's reason why Everitt doesn't get a game as often as we think that he should. What is going on? Probably just dumb-ass coach Eade.

Little bit harsh on Rocket,but I think he is showing a little to much loyality to out of sorts
experienced players

[bornadog]

I feel this does not just apply to Everitt. It's been like this with Eade the whole time. The only thing is its not so obvious when your going OK. However when the teams is poor and certain players like Hanh can't do the job any more it makes it very frustrating. The fact is Grant is doing more than Stack, Hanh, Gia and Eagleton. His attack on the Ball is better and with his athleticism he creates opportunities that older players just can't do any more. Lets put some of the next breed in and give them long enough to get use to the pace and if form does not warrant then drop them. Now if Stack plays this week we cannot argue that Eade does not show faith. The simple point is Eade plays favorites.

Sorry, can't believe a MC would do this. There is so much at stake.

I really would like to see Everitt play forward, around the wing to HFF area and eventually even the CHF role. He is not a backman as can be seen from past performances. I thought he was playing well earlier this year until he was injured. Hopefully he plays this weekend.

[LostDoggy]

I can understand the "Jack of all trades, master of none" perception of Skinny, but I don't recall him having an extended run forward at any stage so I'm not sure we can say that with total certainty.

I would love to have him running long leads, even if it meant he's just creating space behind him for a Hall or Grant to lead into. If he gets the ball high up the ground, his disposal is very good so is likely to hurt teams with the inside 50s.

He will force an opposition tall to take him and is flexible enough to provide a plan B when things aren't going our way. In addition, I think we will see a trend towards tall midfielders in coming years, and he could provide a run with option against the 6 foot 3+ mids that will start creeping into the game.

TBH i don't think he's had an extended run in any position. IIRC he played across CHF, or as a floating forward in his first few games circa mid 2007.

---------------------------

From Footywire - http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pc-western-bulldogs--andrejs-everitt#Scene_1

Career Season Averages

2010 Western Bulldogs 7 *
2009 Western Bulldogs 7
2008 Western Bulldogs 9
2007 Western Bulldogs 8
Career 31

* - Hopefully more.

[The Pie Man]

I understand why they think like they do. I don't know where he would play either. A tall who can't play tall and a runner who can't run. I think he's a bit like an all-rounder who averages 28 with the bat and 32 with the ball.

Having said that, I can't think of an area where he doesn't offer more than Mitch Hahn.

If ever there was a time to find out, surely it was Sunday. He may still play forward if he makes the bench later tonight, but with Mitch named CHF I find that unlikely.

[The Coon Dog]

I agree entirely with the sentiments expressed by Swoop regarding Everitt.

Surely he has to get a gig before Addison-dud and Stack-dud.

Everitt appears to have great potential.

I would love to hear Eade's reason why Everitt doesn't get a game as often as we think that he should. What is going on? Probably just dumb-ass coach Eade.

Can you please post on here with a bit more respect?

I accept there are players you think aren't up to it, but to continually denigrate them by constantly referring to them as duds hinders your argument.

Some of these players have family & friends who frequent WOOF & I'm sure they too would find this sort of stuff tedious & boring.

[EasternWest]

I agree entirely with the sentiments expressed by Swoop regarding Everitt.

Surely he has to get a gig before Addison-dud and Stack-dud.

Everitt appears to have great potential.

I would love to hear Eade's reason why Everitt doesn't get a game as often as we think that he should. What is going on? Probably just dumb-ass coach Eade.

The problem with this is that you're not comparing apples with apples.

Everitt is cut in a far different mould to either Addison or Stack. Come to think of it, he doesn't really compare to any players in our team, which in part might explain why the MC struggles to find a spot for him.

FWIW I would love to see him given a run at CHF, see what he can manage.

And to just label players as duds is pretty unfair. To think they may not be up to AFL standard is ok, but they're obviously superior to the thousands of other kids who don't get selected or even looked at.

[Sockeye Salmon]

While I too think Everitt should be in the side this week, I'm not as passionate about it as some.

I think there's a bit of the 20 game rule going on here (OK, technically he's played more than 20 games) - everyone's a superstar until they prove otherwise.

Everitt has been OK this year when he's played in the seniors, and had a good game v Box Hill two weeks ago at Willi, but I doubt he's going to win the Liston Medal.

I think he would be better value than Stack, Addison, Eagleton or Hahn and should be in the side, but let's not kid ourselves here, he's no Chris Grant.

[Doc26]

I think he would be better value than Stack, Addison, Eagleton or Hahn and should be in the side, but let's not kid ourselves here, he's no Chris Grant.

SS, interesting that you should say that considering he was given the famous #3. It appears Dre's stocks have plummeted from the day he was seen worthy of being graced with the Club's prized number.

[hujsh]

While I too think Everitt should be in the side this week, I'm not as passionate about it as some.

I think there's a bit of the 20 game rule going on here (OK, technically he's played more than 20 games) - everyone's a superstar until they prove otherwise.

Everitt has been OK this year when he's played in the seniors, and had a good game v Box Hill two weeks ago at Willi, but I doubt he's going to win the Liston Medal.

I think he would be better value than Stack, Addison, Eagleton or Hahn and should be in the side, but let's not kid ourselves here, he's no Chris Grant.

Maybe it's not even that. My rational has been more of 'Everitt giving us anything must surely better than what we've got from Hahn so far'. The unknown potential being better than the known sub par performance.

[LostDoggy]

I seriously can't wait for Everitt to be running around in the same forward line as Bazza! I really hope he grasps this opportunity as long as he get's to line up there. I truly believe them two together will create serious problems for most backlines.

[LostDoggy]

How did he not get in?

[LostDoggy]

How did he not get in?

It is very easy to be critical from the outside but the actual fact is that most of us know nothing of what goes on inside the club. He may have been asked to work on a certain part of his game or they have no suitable match up for him.

If he is good enough he will get a game and hold his spot, We must have faith in the MC as they are with the players day in day out where we see them for 3 hours a week.

[LostDoggy]

...Sam got another chance at North and just didn't cut the mustard,poor kick poor decision maker who had plenty of chances at both clubs...

In addition to an over cautious approach, he lacked the confidence to take the game on and became a link man with lightning quick hands handing the ball off. In the play-on, helter skelter style we played then, he looked out of place yet in his last year lead the league in entries into the 50 and in the last half of the season was leading the club's best and fairest votes. At North he was consistently in the top 4 or 5 possession winners, playing as a midfielder rather than a jack of all trades. He was seen as a Laidley project and fell victim to the youth policy that Scott introduced.

Sam's mistake was to leave. He'd have been better off staying, try to change his game, as Eagle did, and force Eade to play him. Ironically, he'd have been better suited to the current, more cautious style. Eade lacked confidence in him, as he appears to in Andreas who still fumbles under pressure. It's up to Andreas to force Eade to change his mind. Footy's tough.

[BulldogBelle]

COON DOG - you are a rare one telling me to have more respect after seeing some of your arrogant and denigrating posts in the past. Don't be a hypocrite! I suspect that you only criticised me because you disagree that Addison and Stack are duds. And along followed your sycophants.

Any relatives of players who post on this site are highly-likely to be biased in favour of their relative and not the team and therefore make posts that would promote their relative, and therefore influence other readers to this site. This is just human nature. They should make themselves known so that we can just ignore them.

Problem is that Eade seems to be totally unaccountable regarding his team selections and player placements. I don't live in Victoria (but I still hold multiple full memberships each with social club). Don't you have selection table meetings with selectors that supporters can attend. Are there not any courageous enough supporters who can attend and really get the answers out of the selectors. Can't somebody go there and bang the table!

Because we don't have reasons for Eade's actions and non-actions we are free to surmise anything we like.

Some simple questions:
1. If we had of drafted Podsiadly like many of the fans on this and other forums suggested 3 years ago would we have advanced more in the finals, maybe even have taken out a Grand Final or two. Drafted by Geelong right under our noses.

2. Will whoever is responsible for not drafting Podsiadly please resign, or provide a good reason why they shouldn't be sacked. Is anybody to be held accountable for this? I'd like a full account of the circumstances and the reasons why Geelong succeeded and we failed. Its a disgrace.

I don't know who was responsible for not drafting Ben Hudson after he was taken by Adelaide right under our noses, but they can give a please explain too.

Heads should roll, and what, there's nerry a whimper

3. Everitt - I would really like a good explanation regarding why he left out of the team. I don't want any poopy one liner, I want a perfect reasoned and detailed response.

There, a couple of questions to ask.

Seems to be a real lack of hardness and an acceptance of mediocrity that is making me ANGRY!

[chef]

COON DOG - you are a rare one telling me to have more respect after seeing some of your arrogant and denigrating posts in the past

Any chance you could quote one of these posts?

[hujsh]

COON DOG - you are a rare one telling me to have more respect after seeing some of your arrogant and denigrating posts in the past. Don't be a hypocrite! I suspect that you only criticised me because you disagree that Addison and Stack are duds. And along followed your sycophants.

Then you clearly have a narrow view of the world. I'd have done the same as Coon Dog but initially decided it would be best to ignore you. Some points you make are valid and should be raised but you go about it the wrong way.

[The Coon Dog]

COON DOG - you are a rare one telling me to have more respect after seeing some of your arrogant and denigrating posts in the past. Don't be a hypocrite! I suspect that you only criticised me because you disagree that Addison and Stack are duds. And along followed your sycophants.


Don't you have selection table meetings with selectors that supporters can attend. Are there not any courageous enough supporters who can attend and really get the answers out of the selectors. Can't somebody go there and bang the table.




Yeah, believe that if you like.

You really do go about things the wrong way, don't you? I only criticised you because I felt you showed no respect whatsover to 2 Western Bulldogs players, nothing more, nothing less. Whether I agree with your assessment of Addison & Stack is irrelevant, you just seem to enjoy calling people names. That's something quite frankly I find boring.

Yes, I waved my magic wand & people just followed me blindly. Get real & credit posters on this forum with a bit more intelligence than that!

No, we don't have selection table meetings that supporters can attend, haven't for many years so the rest of that paragraph becomes redundant.

I guess if you're really as hacked off as you seem, perhaps you could write a letter to the coach, no doubt you would receive a phone call to discuss the contents, but then again I really don't see you doing that, much easier to get on here & call all & sundry names, with little or no consequence.

Why can't you just get your point across without the childish need to denigrate others with pathetic name calling? You seem reasonably intelligent & I reckon you could get your point across in a manner where you might gain a degree of respect rather than the way you currently do.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Yeah, believe that if you like.

You really do go about things the wrong way, don't you? I only criticised you because I felt you showed no respect whatsover to 2 Western Bulldogs players, nothing more, nothing less. Whether I agree with your assessment of Addison & Stack is irrelevant, you just seem to enjoy calling people names. That's something quite frankly I find boring.

Yes, I waved my magic wand & people just followed me blindly. Get real & credit posters on this forum with a bit more intelligence than that!

No, we don't have selection table meetings that supporters can attend, haven't for many years so the rest of that paragraph becomes redundant.

I guess if you're really as hacked off as you seem, perhaps you could write a letter to the coach, no doubt you would receive a phone call to discuss the contents, but then again I really don't see you doing that, much easier to get on here & call all & sundry names, with little or no consequence.

Why can't you just get your point across without the childish need to denigrate others with pathetic name calling? You seem reasonably intelligent & I reckon you could get your point across in a manner where you might gain a degree of respect rather than the way you currently do.

You were doing well until then.

[AndrewP6]

COON DOG - you are a rare one telling me to have more respect after seeing some of your arrogant and denigrating posts in the past. Don't be a hypocrite! I suspect that you only criticised me because you disagree that Addison and Stack are duds. And along followed your sycophants.

Any relatives of players who post on this site are highly-likely to be biased in favour of their relative and not the team and therefore make posts that would promote their relative, and therefore influence other readers to this site. This is just human nature. They should make themselves known so that we can just ignore them.

Problem is that Eade seems to be totally unaccountable regarding his team selections and player placements. I don't live in Victoria (but I still hold multiple full memberships each with social club). Don't you have selection table meetings with selectors that supporters can attend. Are there not any courageous enough supporters who can attend and really get the answers out of the selectors. Can't somebody go there and bang the table!

Because we don't have reasons for Eade's actions and non-actions we are free to surmise anything we like.

Some simple questions:
1. If we had of drafted Podsiadly like many of the fans on this and other forums suggested 3 years ago would we have advanced more in the finals, maybe even have taken out a Grand Final or two. Drafted by Geelong right under our noses.

2. Will whoever is responsible for not drafting Podsiadly please resign, or provide a good reason why they shouldn't be sacked. Is anybody to be held accountable for this? I'd like a full account of the circumstances and the reasons why Geelong succeeded and we failed. Its a disgrace.

I don't know who was responsible for not drafting Ben Hudson after he was taken by Adelaide right under our noses, but they can give a please explain too.

Heads should roll, and what, there's nerry a whimper

3. Everitt - I would really like a good explanation regarding why he left out of the team. I don't want any poopy one liner, I want a perfect reasoned and detailed response.

There, a couple of questions to ask.

Seems to be a real lack of hardness and an acceptance of mediocrity that is making me ANGRY!

No offence intended, but this gave me a good laugh....

[LostDoggy]

No offence intended, but this gave me a good laugh....

Anyone who pulls on the tricolour in anger deserves respect. The lack of ability, perhaps application, means the player doesn't fulfil his own or supporters' hopes and expectations but he's achieved more than any of us here. I don't think Addison is up to it, delivery too poor, but you have to respect his approach. Stack lacks consistency, that may come as his body matures but he's capable of moments of magic.

Nevertheless, J Cumings' points deserve a response, from the better informed poster if not the club, I'm neither. I can understand why Podsiadly wasn't picked up by the club - he'd had a go and been found wanting, VFL level is well below AFL level and the club's long shots were better credentialed, McDougal springs to mind. Somebody at Geelong saw something our recruiters didn't. Some you win, some you lose. Hudson was overlooked by Peter Rhodes and his selectors, Rhodes lost his job.

Everitt fumbles under pressure. It's up to him to force Eade to select him. I suspect it's an attitude thing and perhaps he doesn't follow instructions. We supporters who criticise players don't know what they are instructed to do.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. For every draftee who fails to make the grade, you can point to a number selected later who do. It's not only Footscray. Every other club looks foolish when you look at Lake's selection.

[Mofra]

Seems to be a real lack of hardness and an acceptance of mediocrity that is making me ANGRY!
Given your repsonses so far I guess the site has some acceptance of mediocrity, thankfully I doubt the club itself does. Interesting you want more hardness, when Addision is perhaps the hardest player in the team.


3. Everitt - I would really like a good explanation regarding why he left out of the team. I don't want any poopy one liner, I want a perfect reasoned and detailed response.
Despite the fact that your childish behaviour barely warrants it, here goes:

Everitt hasn't nailed down a spot, simple enough. He seems to lack the burst of speed to own a forward post, lacks the body on body pressure for a backman, is not quite quick enough to play on a wing and is too short for the ruck. His disposal for mine is excellent and I think he can fill a number of roles in the side as a spare parts man, but he needs to find a spot and nail it down.

Worth noting he wasn't named in the bests at Willy yesterday whioch in some repsoects vindicates the view of the match committee.

[The Underdog]

I think there's a bit of the 20 game rule going on here (OK, technically he's played more than 20 games) - everyone's a superstar until they prove otherwise.

Everitt has been OK this year when he's played in the seniors, and had a good game v Box Hill two weeks ago at Willi, but I doubt he's going to win the Liston Medal.

I think he would be better value than Stack, Addison, Eagleton or Hahn and should be in the side, but let's not kid ourselves here, he's no Chris Grant.

Stack's on record pace then, he's not even hit 10 games and he's already a dud;)
While Everitt may not be in the Liston race, it looks like he may get a few more chances to get votes. Like most I'd like to see him in but it's clear the MC are still "dancing with the girl you came with" even though at this point she's starting to eye off someone else. It'll be interesting when Johnson, Ward and Akermanis are fit, which player's come under scrutiny.

[KT31]

Given your repsonses so far I guess the site has some acceptance of mediocrity, thankfully I doubt the club itself does. Interesting you want more hardness, when Addision is perhaps the hardest player in the team.
.

Would suggest even Addison would balk at getting in Bazza's way.:D

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Well back to the task at hand, If Tommy cant get up for this weeks game against the Eagles, Everitt would have to find himself a chance, Shaggy missing and Wood playing.

If the MC don't play him he has to ask has he really done enough to warrant a spot and if so why is he not in.

Don't get me wrong I think he could really add value to our list in so many ways but look at him and say "well he was put up for trade" last year with little interest and the dogs offered a life line.

How do I repay that back?

Would we all be comfortable with him playing this week on McKinly, MaCrae, Lynch?

My best 22 wouldn't include Everitt but he would be in the next pack of 5 to 6. It's all up to him to change this as 3 years ago he was in the best 22 and he seems to have stayed stagnate while Ward, Hill, Picken, Williams have all come on.

[stefoid]

Im not a Willi watcher, but by all accounts Grant has done more for the dogs than he did for the gulls. I thought Everitt looked lively enough when promoted as well. some players are just like that.

I think Skinnys problem is what other posters have already stated - where do play him? He could be average almost anywhere on the ground, but where will he be actually good?

[LostDoggy]

Im not a Willi watcher, but by all accounts Grant has done more for the dogs than he did for the gulls. I thought Everitt looked lively enough when promoted as well. some players are just like that.

I think Skinnys problem is what other posters have already stated - where do play him? He could be average almost anywhere on the ground, but where will he be actually good?

Agree, seems that Everitt is one of those types who is better at AFL level than VFL if you know what I mean?

He just needs game time. If they can persist with Stack then they can do it with Everitt.
He has a massive upside and want to see him nail down a firm spot coming into the finals.

[Swoop]

Agree, seems that Everitt is one of those types who is better at AFL level than VFL if you know what I mean?

He just needs game time. If they can persist with Stack then they can do it with Everitt.
He has a massive upside and want to see him nail down a firm spot coming into the finals.

I agree with your sentiment, using Stack as an example clearly the match committee believe he offers the side a skill set in genuine pace that few on the list can rival him for therefore they have chosen to persist with him due to that exact reason.

The biggest problem the match committee seem to be suffering from is identifying Everitt's skill set and what sets him apart from his competition. Unfortunately for Everitt's sake they do not appear to know how to best utilise him, he has a lot more competition for spots and doesn't have any specific skills that set him apart from the competition in their eyes.

I hope he can nail the half forward role they appear to have thrown him through Williamstown and ultimately earn a recall.

[LostDoggy]

I believe we are missing a Milne type player in our side. We seem to have a number of players who fumble or are less able below the knees. The result is that we can lose the ball to the opposition in our forward half or we aren't able to get possession on the ground and kick freak goals. Our burst players are few. Sides with burst players and those able to spring up off the deck in an instant have troubled us this year. I question, therefore, whether we can have all of Hill, Stack, Moles, Eagle and Everitt in the one side. Especially as we have Cross and Boyd who are excellent movers of the ball but are less able on the burst.

We can be very quick with movement of the ball, but equally we can be found out when we don't have the ball and made to look slow. If our defensive pressure is great it matters less, but too often this year we have just given the ball to the opposition or we have not had the legs or system to hem in burst players and quick movers of the ball in contested situations. It comes down to having all players in the forward half constantly running and blocking and smothering and being where they are supposed to be to ensure no free flow for the opposition. If they don't do this, they create a problem for the team.

I assume that Everitt, Stack and Hill have to learn to do these things better and more consistently if they are to be part of a finals' campaign.

[LostDoggy]

COON DOG - you are a rare one telling me to have more respect after seeing some of your arrogant and denigrating posts in the past. Don't be a hypocrite! I suspect that you only criticised me because you disagree that Addison and Stack are duds. And along followed your sycophants.


Seems to be a real lack of hardness and an acceptance of mediocrity that is making me ANGRY!

JC

Love your passion and some of the questions you are asking, they are all relevant and worth bringing to the forum.

However, I have to agree with TCD on this one mate. Players and officials regularly read this site and I'm sure they wouldn't have a problem with you putting across your views about player talent, however, referring to players as duds and the coach as a dumbass lacks class.
Given some of the pertinent issues you have raised I believe you are above name calling.

We are all hurting from our poor form at the moment butif you want your questions answered do it without getting personal and giving the players shit, it will go a long way to actually getting the info you want. In the past I have personally written to Rocket and he called me back that very day to discuss my views. If you are that concerned with his desicion making I would suggest you fire off an email to the club and speak to the people that matter. If they returned a phone call from a shmuck like me I'm sure they'll do the same for you!

Keep up the good work!

Stay passionate without getting personal, the board needs more of it:cool:

P.s.... I'm not a relative nor am I a fan of both players, i think they both have absolutely no place in our starting 22.

[Desipura]

JC

Love your passion and some of the questions you are asking, they are all relevant and worth bringing to the forum.

However, I have to agree with TCD on this one mate. Players and officials regularly read this site and I'm sure they wouldn't have a problem with you putting across your views about player talent, however, referring to players as duds and the coach as a dumbass lacks class.
Given some of the pertinent issues you have raised I believe you are above name calling.

We are all hurting from our poor form at the moment butif you want your questions answered do it without getting personal and giving the players shit, it will go a long way to actually getting the info you want. In the past I have personally written to Rocket and he called me back that very day to discuss my views. If you are that concerned with his desicion making I would suggest you fire off an email to the club and speak to the people that matter. If they returned a phone call from a shmuck like me I'm sure they'll do the same for you!

Keep up the good work!

Stay passionate without getting personal, the board needs more of it:cool:

P.s.... I'm not a relative nor am I a fan of both players, i think they both have absolutely no place in our starting 22.
This is a quality response. Rather than shooting him down for his passion, I think you nailed it with the bolded part.

[boydogs]

This is a quality response. Rather than shooting him down for his passion, I think you nailed it with the bolded part.

Agreed. Sign of a good forum when members are pulling people into line themselves in such an even handed way

[AndrewP6]

Anyone who pulls on the tricolour in anger deserves respect. The lack of ability, perhaps application, means the player doesn't fulfil his own or supporters' hopes and expectations but he's achieved more than any of us here. I don't think Addison is up to it, delivery too poor, but you have to respect his approach. Stack lacks consistency, that may come as his body matures but he's capable of moments of magic.

Nevertheless, J Cumings' points deserve a response, from the better informed poster if not the club, I'm neither. I can understand why Podsiadly wasn't picked up by the club - he'd had a go and been found wanting, VFL level is well below AFL level and the club's long shots were better credentialed, McDougal springs to mind. Somebody at Geelong saw something our recruiters didn't. Some you win, some you lose. Hudson was overlooked by Peter Rhodes and his selectors, Rhodes lost his job.

Everitt fumbles under pressure. It's up to him to force Eade to select him. I suspect it's an attitude thing and perhaps he doesn't follow instructions. We supporters who criticise players don't know what they are instructed to do.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. For every draftee who fails to make the grade, you can point to a number selected later who do. It's not only Footscray. Every other club looks foolish when you look at Lake's selection.


Agree with most of your post...my previous laughter was at James Cumings' wild potshots at any all persons associated with the non-recruitment of J-Pod and The People's Beard, along with the calls for heads to roll and please explains from all and sundry.

[craigsahibee]

COON DOG - you are a rare one telling me to have more respect after seeing some of your arrogant and denigrating posts in the past. Don't be a hypocrite! I suspect that you only criticised me because you disagree that Addison and Stack are duds. And along followed your sycophants.

Any relatives of players who post on this site are highly-likely to be biased in favour of their relative and not the team and therefore make posts that would promote their relative, and therefore influence other readers to this site. This is just human nature. They should make themselves known so that we can just ignore them.

Problem is that Eade seems to be totally unaccountable regarding his team selections and player placements. I don't live in Victoria (but I still hold multiple full memberships each with social club). Don't you have selection table meetings with selectors that supporters can attend. Are there not any courageous enough supporters who can attend and really get the answers out of the selectors. Can't somebody go there and bang the table!

Because we don't have reasons for Eade's actions and non-actions we are free to surmise anything we like.

Some simple questions:
1. If we had of drafted Podsiadly like many of the fans on this and other forums suggested 3 years ago would we have advanced more in the finals, maybe even have taken out a Grand Final or two. Drafted by Geelong right under our noses.

2. Will whoever is responsible for not drafting Podsiadly please resign, or provide a good reason why they shouldn't be sacked. Is anybody to be held accountable for this? I'd like a full account of the circumstances and the reasons why Geelong succeeded and we failed. Its a disgrace.

I don't know who was responsible for not drafting Ben Hudson after he was taken by Adelaide right under our noses, but they can give a please explain too.

Heads should roll, and what, there's nerry a whimper

3. Everitt - I would really like a good explanation regarding why he left out of the team. I don't want any poopy one liner, I want a perfect reasoned and detailed response.

There, a couple of questions to ask.

Seems to be a real lack of hardness and an acceptance of mediocrity that is making me ANGRY!

While Podsiadly is playing well at Geelong at the moment, would he be playing as well at any other of the 15 clubs in the AFL? I love the way he plays but I do think he is a perfect fit at Geelong and is complemented by their personnel. Let's face it, when you have Cam Mooney, Stevie J, Paul Chapman and others along side you in the forward 50 it does tend to stretch the opposition defence a little bit. He is playing their structure to perfection which allows him to swing on to his left foot every time. That's my defence on behalf of the club to your second point. With regard to your first point we now can not answer it and never will be able to, so lets move on.

[The Coon Dog]

While Podsiadly is playing well at Geelong at the moment, would he be playing as well at any other of the 15 clubs in the AFL? I love the way he plays but I do think he is a perfect fit at Geelong and is complemented by their personnel. Let's face it, when you have Cam Mooney, Stevie J, Paul Chapman and others along side you in the forward 50 it does tend to stretch the opposition defence a little bit. He is playing their structure to perfection which allows him to swing on to his left foot every time. That's my defence on behalf of the club to your second point. With regard to your first point we now can not answer it and never will be able to, so lets move on.

Would Geelong have rookied Pods this season if the AFL hadn't changed the rules to allow for mature aged rookies?

How long has he been in the system? Let's say 10 years for the sake of the argument & during those 10 years, lets say there have been 70 picks in the draft each year. That's a lot of 'mistakes' by all 16 clubs.

[LostDog]

if Pods was drafted by us, we would have put him in the emergencies every week then dropped him at the end of the year.
This is our style almost there almost there almost there, oh we missed out

[LostDoggy]

if Pods was drafted by us, we would have put him in the emergencies every week then dropped him at the end of the year.
This is our style almost there almost there almost there, oh we missed out

If Pods had changed his last name to Eagleton and shaved his head, he would have been guaranteed a game for life ;)

[Ghost Dog]

What are your thoughts on Everitt? Are we not utilising him correctly? Where should he be playing?

I would love to hear your thoughts on this topic as I value the opinion of others on this forum highly. Go Dogs!


I would put Everitt above Jhonson, Hahn, Eagleton, Stack, Hill, and a whole conga line of other players who seem to jump get straight to the front of the queue.
While I think the media hoo-haa about him wanting to switch clubs last year was a tad over-cooked, blowed if I know why they don't give him a run. He looks good dashing down the wing.

[Ghost Dog]

Can you please post on here with a bit more respect?

I accept there are players you think aren't up to it, but to continually denigrate them by constantly referring to them as duds hinders your argument.

Some of these players have family & friends who frequent WOOF & I'm sure they too would find this sort of stuff tedious & boring.

Agree with the above. come on guys. I could probably run for 20 seconds of a full game and kick a ball half as far as an AFL player if I had the wind behind me. They deserve a bit more respect

[LostDog]

If Pods had changed his last name to Eagleton and shaved his head, he would have been guaranteed a game for life ;)

lol thats classic and true

[Mofra]

I would put Everitt above Jhonson, Hahn, Eagleton, Stack, Hill, and a whole conga line of other players who seem to jump get straight to the front of the queue.
It gets back to one simple question - where do you play Everitt?
I like what he can offer but he hasn't nailed down a position within the team, and he needs to find his role to claim a spot in the best 22.

[Rocco Jones]

Everitt definitely falls into the difficult basket when it comes to finding a suitable role but that's what great coaches do. Look at the work of the likes of Roos and Lyon. They make wonderful use of seemingly ordinary players by maximising their strengths and minimising their weaknesses in certain roles.

I have a feeling that if Everitt intended up being traded to the Saints at the end of last season he would be playing decent AFL footy right now.

[LostDoggy]

While Podsiadly is playing well at Geelong at the moment, would he be playing as well at any other of the 15 clubs in the AFL? I love the way he plays but I do think he is a perfect fit at Geelong and is complemented by their personnel. Let's face it, when you have Cam Mooney, Stevie J, Paul Chapman and others along side you in the forward 50 it does tend to stretch the opposition defence a little bit. He is playing their structure to perfection which allows him to swing on to his left foot every time. That's my defence on behalf of the club to your second point. With regard to your first point we now can not answer it and never will be able to, so lets move on.

Near on took the words right out of my mouth.

[bornadog]

if Pods was drafted by us, we would have put him in the emergencies every week then dropped him at the end of the year.
This is our style almost there almost there almost there, oh we missed out

Sorry mate but that is a rubbish post. I am sure the coaches and selection committee know more about the players than you and I or any WOOF poster does.

[Rocco Jones]

Sorry mate but that is a rubbish post. I am sure the coaches and selection committee know more about the players than you and I or any WOOF poster does.

While I don't really agree with the nature of LostDog's post, I really find your comment typical of a lot of posters here.

If something looks like it's going wrong, it's just because we don't know what Eade and co. are trying to do etc.

Mindless positivity is tolerated to celebrated on here but if someone dare be critical of Eade and co. they are met with the 'he is our coach and you are a poster' line.

Eade to me is looking like an ordinary coach (not great nor poor). Fanboys here will gush over him when we smash the teams making up the numbers but we just keep on keeping on when it comes to losing the big games. Would dearly love to be proven wrong and see Eagle, Hahn and co. contribute in wins in big games.

[bornadog]

While I don't really agree with the nature of LostDog's post, I really find your comment typical of a lot of posters here.

If something looks like it's going wrong, it's just because we don't know what Eade and co. are trying to do etc.

Mindless positivity is tolerated to celebrated on here but if someone dare be critical of Eade and co. they are met with the 'he is our coach and you are a poster' line.

Eade to me is looking like an ordinary coach (not great nor poor). Fanboys here will gush over him when we smash the teams making up the numbers but we just keep on keeping on when it comes to losing the big games. Would dearly love to be proven wrong and see Eagle, Hahn and co. contribute in wins in big games.

Well lines like this is our style (see LostDogs post) is just rubbish. I know you have mentioned before about criticizing Eade, but I can't agree with you. If there is justification and reasons why a coach makes mistakes or is not up to scratch, then I can't see anything wrong with that. However, posts like, Eade doesn't know what he is doing or Eade is useless, etc etc, are just plain bagging for no reason at all.

I have sat here watching the Willi game this afternoon and basically Everitt needs to work harder and play better if he wants to get back to the seniors. Whilst he played a pretty good game, in a 20 goal thrashing it wasn't an outstanding effort. Therefore his non selection is justified.

PS: Tell us why you feel he is looking like an ordinary coach?

[The Underdog]

I would put Everitt above Jhonson, Hahn, Eagleton, Stack, Hill, and a whole conga line of other players who seem to jump get straight to the front of the queue.
While I think the media hoo-haa about him wanting to switch clubs last year was a tad over-cooked, blowed if I know why they don't give him a run. He looks good dashing down the wing.

You'd seriously put Everitt ahead of Johnson? You mean Brad right? The 300 game champion of the club and Captain of the team.
I know he's had a rough season but I find that difficult to believe.

[Rocco Jones]

Well lines like this is our style (see LostDogs post) is just rubbish. I know you have mentioned before about criticizing Eade, but I can't agree with you. If there is justification and reasons why a coach makes mistakes or is not up to scratch, then I can't see anything wrong with that. However, posts like, Eade doesn't know what he is doing or Eade is useless, etc etc, are just plain bagging for no reason at all.
[QUOTE]

I agree with you that simply bagging out Eade and the players without any logic are useless and do harm to the board. I strongly disagree with the tone and logic (or lack of) used by James Cumming and LostDog.

However I also don't find mindless positive helpful or insightful as well.

Putting it simply to me..
The MC MUST be right, they obviously know more than us! = uninsighful
Eade is a poo poo head (or whatever JC said)= unsightful and insulting

[QUOTE=bornadog;159913]I have sat here watching the Willi game this afternoon and basically Everitt needs to work harder and play better if he wants to get back to the seniors. Whilst he played a pretty good game, in a 20 goal thrashing it wasn't an outstanding effort. Therefore his non selection is justified.

PS: Tell us why you feel he is looking like an ordinary coach?

It's funny. Imagine Roos wasn't in charge of the Swans. Someone like Kirk or now Mumford may have ended up being nowhere near the level they achieved/are achieving under him. I believe someone like Everitt is a great example of a player who could be flourishing under a great coach but of course there is no way to prove otherwise.

When I say ordinary I don't mean it how society seems to, as if it's synonymous for poor. I think he is middle of the road/average for use of better terms.

Why?
- Guys like Hill and Everitt who just don't improve. He comes across as a teacher who bitches about a difficult student rather than trying new approaches to teach them.
- Continual faith in guys who keep on letting us down in the big games.
- So very short term in his team selections. We pick our 22 each week as if we are playing a final. I think it really hurts us in trying to get games into our kids as well are rewarding the wrong type of attitude. If you're a senior player it's harder to get out of the team than in it.
- Our record in big games. We are flat track bullies. We fail in big games then forget about it after a few wins against sides out of the top 4-6. It's a cycle.
- Our forward line structure looks out of touch in the modern game. Where's the defensive pressure? We look awful when the oppositon gets the ball against any decent oppositon.
- Use of Boyd and/or Cross. They are obviously limited players who are great in a contest. I would love to see them in roles that maximise their strengths and limit their weaknesses rather than generic run with roles where quality opposion burn them going the other way. I would love to see Boyd in a more industrial/close checking role. A bit like Ling or Jones. He might not end up looking as good on the stats sheet but I really believe he would add more value to the side.
- Our team balance really looks out of wack against quality sides. I think Eade plays too many forwards to compensate for our lack in scoring depth. No point in playing a forward if they are not up to it.
- We keep on playing a conservative brand of footy and Eade keeps on saying it's the players. We seem to have a chip, chip default and players revert to what they know when under pressure. Either Eade is telling them to be conservative or they are not listening to his instructions. Either way doesn't pain a great picutre.

I am not saying I am right with all these points. I agree I have nowhere near the knowledge on our team or the game but I am not the one being paid very well to take care of our team. Being a superior footy mind to Rocco Jones shouldn't be the AFL coach benchmark.

If you want to believe Eade is great and getting the most out of our players it's impossible to prove you otherwise as you can always just believe it's Dre's fault for not putting in the work and the like.

I am not the type of fan that would rather be prove right than have his team succeed. I would take great delight in Eade and co. proving me wrong. Once again I don't see him as a dud or the like, just an ordinary, stock standard AFL coach.

[chef]

PS: Tell us why you feel he is looking like an ordinary coach?

Can he be anything other than that if he hasn't won a flag?

[Rocco Jones]

Can he be anything other than that if he hasn't won a flag?

I believe so. I think Lyon is a quality coach. I also believe that ordinary coaches can win a flag if their list is amazing (GC and GWS might give us an example or two of that in a few years).

[bornadog]

[QUOTE=Rocco Jones;159913]. Once again I don't see him as a dud or the like, just an ordinary, stock standard AFL coach.

Stock standard coaches don't get your team into the preliminary final two years in a row and with a little luck, last year could have been a grand final.

I agree and all posters will agree, we haven't played well this year, but is that a coaching thing? Is it due to not having your best team on the park? Is it because we are still adjusting our forward line to having a genuine tall for the first time since Grant retired?

I personally don't think Roos is the greatest coach either, for starters he couldn't control Barry Hall, in fact the way he communicated to Hall (off field ) was via text.

We are all success starved and want a premiership, but everything has to go right in a premiership year, ie no injuries, all players in form and playing like a team. Some of these things cannot be controlled by the coach and of course other things like training, development, talent picking, game plans etc can. I have no insight into these things and sits hard to judge when we lose whether its the coaches fault or players fault, however, the coach can only do so much.

All I know is that under Eade we have developed into one of the most feared sides and a genuine contender. All we need is a bit of luck with injuries and we can go all the way.

[hujsh]

Stock standard coaches don't get your team into the preliminary final two years in a row and with a little luck, last year could have been a grand final.

What about Grant Thomas?

[bornadog]

What about Grant Thomas?

Do you think he is stock standard?

[The Boy From Brasil]

- So very short term in his team selections. We pick our 22 each week as if we are playing a final. I think it really hurts us in trying to get games into our kids as well are rewarding the wrong type of attitude. If you're a senior player it's harder to get out of the team than in it.


I agree with this and have debated this point for 2-3 years now.

But arguing against myself for a minute and stating Eades case.


1)He would argue that this system of sticking with the tried and true worked last year as we got within a kick of playing in the Grand Final.

2)The coach is reponsible to the president and the CEO. Eade and the MC are the ones who select the side and they wouldn't have any interference from above. But you can almost feel the desperation from the club to try and land a premiership and bring home the holy grail to their supporters after such a drought. This type of thinking maybe permeates into team selection and list management. Maybe there is a thought "just land the premiership and after that we can blood the kids". You get the impression that there would be such heartbreak to retire all the old guys and start all over again. The letdown from the president down would be enormous.

Maybe I am reading into things that arn't there. But I look at two clubs (St Kilda and us) who have only won one premiership and are so so hungry to break the drought. We retain all our veterans and have an extremely old list. St Kilda recruits Lovett against sensible advice. Both clubs are taking punts and thinking short term to try and get that chance at a flag, because they are so close they can smell it. With our old list there was a chance there would be injuries, with Lovett there would be a chance he would run off the rails. But the club takes the risk to try and bring this elusive flag to the members.


So, in a long winded way I am agreeing when you say we appear at times to be thinking short term or conservative. But knowing how desperate all our chief decision makers are to try and grab a premiership, in a way I can understand the motivations. Because there is so much emotion in a football club, not 100% of decisions are rationally based or with an eye to the future.

[Rocco Jones]

Stock standard coaches don't get your team into the preliminary final two years in a row and with a little luck, last year could have been a grand final.



As I stated, I believe it is possible for a stock standard coach to win a flag if their list is amazing.

That being said I think I was a little harsh in calling him ordinary/stock standard, it was more in relation to how he and the MC go about selecting the side. Overall I think Eade is a good coach, just not in the elite/great category (not wanting to get into semantic too much).

[Rocco Jones]

I agree with this and have debated this point for 2-3 years now.

But arguing against myself for a minute and stating Eades case.


1)He would argue that this system of sticking with the tried and true worked last year as we got within a kick of playing in the Grand Final.

2)The coach is reponsible to the president and the CEO. Eade and the MC are the ones who select the side and they wouldn't have any interference from above. But you can almost feel the desperation from the club to try and land a premiership and bring home the holy grail to their supporters after such a drought. This type of thinking maybe permeates into team selection and list management. Maybe there is a thought "just land the premiership and after that we can blood the kids". You get the impression that there would be such heartbreak to retire all the old guys and start all over again. The letdown from the president down would be enormous.

Maybe I am reading into things that arn't there. But I look at two clubs (St Kilda and us) who have only won one premiership and are so so hungry to break the drought. We retain all our veterans and have an extremely old list. St Kilda recruits Lovett against sensible advice. Both clubs are taking punts and thinking short term to try and get that chance at a flag, because they are so close they can smell it. With our old list there was a chance there would be injuries, with Lovett there would be a chance he would run off the rails. But the club takes the risk to try and bring this elusive flag to the members.


So, in a long winded way I am agreeing when you say we appear at times to be thinking short term or conservative. But knowing how desperate all our chief decision makers are to try and grab a premiership, in a way I can understand the motivations. Because there is so much emotion in a football club, not 100% of decisions are rationally based or with an eye to the future.

Good post.

I definitely think I was wrong in calling Eade 'stock standard' (not that I view it as insult). He has done a lot of good for us to get us so close.

I also would not want to take the risk of hiring another coach in the short term as I think Eade can get us there. I just don't believe he is in the elite class (at the moment).

When you're so close, maximising the most out of the difficult types like Everitt is enormous. I rate someone like Lyon ahead of him in getting the most out of his players.

That being said I am definitely open to my mind being changed on Eade (even now I view him more positively than negatively. I listed his negatives as part of the exercise but would be able to list more positives) and would love to be proven wrong. Like our team, he could be oh so close to greatness.

[EasternWest]

It's an interesting thread. Good to see reasonable questions and considered answers. I usually can't make myself read really long psts (I know, I know, how lazy am I!), but these have all been good to read.

[Rocco Jones]

It's an interesting thread. Good to see reasonable questions and considered answers. I usually can't make myself read really long psts (I know, I know, how lazy am I!), but these have all been good to read.

Yep, I really enjoy nutting out an issue.

I think it is easy to have a polarised view and see something like having doubts in Eade's ability to get us to a flag/maximies our list's talent as being akin to wanting him sacked.

[bornadog]

So, in a long winded way I am agreeing when you say we appear at times to be thinking short term or conservative. But knowing how desperate all our chief decision makers are to try and grab a premiership, in a way I can understand the motivations. Because there is so much emotion in a football club, not 100% of decisions are rationally based or with an eye to the future.

For the first time in many years I think we are starting to manage our list and manage the way vets leave the club. In the Wallet years we were as desperate as we are now for a premiership, however, we didn't develop any young kids other than Nathan Brown. Following on from the 97, 98 prelims we started our down hill slide and then realized we had to recruit players, and so the 99 recruits were born, but it was too late for the years 2001 through to 2005. We should really have started to recruit players in 96, 97 and 98.

Under Eade we are now actually developing players for roles to replace our veterans. We have a team vying for top four, we have players that can't get into the team, its an exciting time. I don't believe the MC is stopping any player from getting into the team due to their performance. Yes, players like Stack, Grant are not starring in the forward line, but all the game time they get will help their future development.

Do you really think players are being picked due to emotion rather than what they contribute or how they perform in the team? If so, I am dumbfounded.

[Rocco Jones]

For the first time in many years I think we are starting to manage our list and manage the way vets leave the club.

I rate Eade and co. highly in terms of list management.



Do you really think players are being picked due to emotion rather than what they contribute or how they perform in the team? If so, I am dumbfounded.

I don't believe we make selections due to emotion. I think we are too conservative though. It's not that Eade picks Eagle and Hahn because he likes them more than some of the kids but he has less mistrust in them (rather than faith). He knows (or should know) they are poor to ordinary against quality opposition but doesn't want to take the risk of picking a kid/kids who do nothing.

Personally I believe we are a bit off being genuine contenders and need to take these calculated risks.

[hujsh]

Do you think he is stock standard?

In terms of coaching quite a few people have said he's not that great. I don't consider myself a great judge but offered him up a a possible exception.

[chef]

As I stated, I believe it is possible for a stock standard coach to win a flag if their list is amazing.

That being said I think I was a little harsh in calling him ordinary/stock standard, it was more in relation to how he and the MC go about selecting the side. Overall I think Eade is a good coach, just not in the elite/great category (not wanting to get into semantic too much).

Allan Joyce did it.

[Before I Die]

While I don't really agree with the nature of LostDog's post, I really find your comment typical of a lot of posters here.

If something looks like it's going wrong, it's just because we don't know what Eade and co. are trying to do etc.

Mindless positivity is tolerated to celebrated on here but if someone dare be critical of Eade and co. they are met with the 'he is our coach and you are a poster' line.

Eade to me is looking like an ordinary coach (not great nor poor). Fanboys here will gush over him when we smash the teams making up the numbers but we just keep on keeping on when it comes to losing the big games. Would dearly love to be proven wrong and see Eagle, Hahn and co. contribute in wins in big games.

I acknowledge that I have come a little bit late to this current discussion, but the line I have bolded in your quote is just wrong. Unless the team has just had a 100 point win, any sort of positivity at all is met with unbridled aggression and continual accusations of "accepting mediocrity". Not to mention being told over and over again that "supporters like you" are the reason we haven't won a flag in 56 years.

I am actually finding this whole Everitt debate somewhat tiresome. 6 weeks ago it was all about Moles. "He is the answer to our mid-field woes". "What is Eade doing???" It seems everyone has the answer except the coach.

I have a question. Why is Everitt in our best 22? Apart from some promising signs in his first year, when expectations were low, and a couple of reasonable games in the following two years, he has done very little. Today in a 100 point thrashing the 18 year old kid from the Calder Cannons did more.

Next game Ward will come in. Hopefully the week after Williams will be back and it is likely Aker won't be too far away after that. Everitt is not getting a game because Everitt is not playing well enough, not because Eade doesn't rate him.

Regarding Eade as a good, ordinary coach or whatever The arguments sound like they are straight from the "Intelligent Design" handbook. You can find examples to support any claim no matter how outrageous. Since his appointment Eade has been open and forthright regarding the teams potential and his expectations for each season. He has also been extraordinarliy accurate with his predictions. This year he has stated we are aiming for a flag. Let's see what unfolds before we go looking for the kitchen knives.

[Before I Die]

Allan Joyce did it.

Twice

[boydogs]

- Guys like Hill and Everitt who just don't improve. He comes across as a teacher who bitches about a difficult student rather than trying new approaches to teach them.

I disagree that there has been no improvement. The calls for Everitt to play this year have been overwhelming as he is now widely seen as better than others that are getting a game this year.

I think the issues here are Hill being played out of position and Everitt not getting a game, moreso than lack of improvement



- Continual faith in guys who keep on letting us down in the big games.

I think we need to break this down a bit. What about them means that they play well against lesser opposition, but not against the top sides? Or is it big games (e.g. needing a win against average opposition to make the top 8 or top 4) moreso than top sides?

Are they just attacking players, who don't contribute defensively no matter the opposition, but stop having an influence if their opponent is good enough to shut them down? Do they struggle with pressure and expectation?

Someone like Eagleton just isn't allowed time and space by quality sides, but that shouldn't stop us from trying to create this for him to use his damaging attacking weapons


- So very short term in his team selections. We pick our 22 each week as if we are playing a final. I think it really hurts us in trying to get games into our kids as well are rewarding the wrong type of attitude. If you're a senior player it's harder to get out of the team than in it.

Hill, Grant, Addison and Stack are all playing at the moment, its not like our kids aren't getting a go. You can't play them all, and maybe we are playing the wrong ones, but there are usually a few to choose from when giving James votes.

I think you are looking for reasons why players like Hahn & Eagleton keep being played, and are coming to some broad conclusions that don't stand up to wider analysis


- Our record in big games. We are flat track bullies. We fail in big games then forget about it after a few wins against sides out of the top 4-6. It's a cycle.

That's what happens when you are a 2nd tier side - we haven't dominated the competition like Geelong & St Kilda have in recent times, we could still when the premiership but we will need a lot of things to go right


- Our forward line structure looks out of touch in the modern game. Where's the defensive pressure? We look awful when the oppositon gets the ball against any decent oppositon.

Hence why Grant, Hill and Stack have been given extended runs in the side


- Use of Boyd and/or Cross. They are obviously limited players who are great in a contest. I would love to see them in roles that maximise their strengths and limit their weaknesses rather than generic run with roles where quality opposion burn them going the other way. I would love to see Boyd in a more industrial/close checking role. A bit like Ling or Jones. He might not end up looking as good on the stats sheet but I really believe he would add more value to the side.

You have to remember that Ward and Reid haven't played all season, and therefore Boyd and Cross are having to do more than may be ideal. This may come in to effect in the next few rounds


- Our team balance really looks out of wack against quality sides. I think Eade plays too many forwards to compensate for our lack in scoring depth. No point in playing a forward if they are not up to it.

The biggest team balance issues for mine have been 3 KPDs, too slow in the forward line and not enough running depth. Eagleton and Moles have been getting some games to boost our running depth and may be replaced by Ward and Reid soon, we have added youth to our forward line and whilst Williams is out this week we have looked much better when Lake has gone forward.

A Moles for Hahn type swap might work when Johnno is back, or if we start playing Lake forward more often, but at the moment I would rather Hahn than Hill as the next key forward after Hall

You have mentioned that defensive pressure in the forward line is an issue, and that we should give the kids a go, so the last point strikes me as odd.


- We keep on playing a conservative brand of footy and Eade keeps on saying it's the players. We seem to have a chip, chip default and players revert to what they know when under pressure. Either Eade is telling them to be conservative or they are not listening to his instructions. Either way doesn't pain a great picutre.

The article below explains this well

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/rodney-eade-all-about-it/story-e6frf9jf-1225878674857

[immortalmike]

It's funny. Imagine Roos wasn't in charge of the Swans. Someone like Kirk or now Mumford may have ended up being nowhere near the level they achieved/are achieving under him. I believe someone like Everitt is a great example of a player who could be flourishing under a great coach but of course there is no way to prove otherwise.


I have to call you out on your Roos worship this time Rocco man. Now I think Roos is a very good coach who stole a premiership using a boring negative gameplan. But I'm really kind of sick of people citing Kirk or Mumford (who was killing it for Geelong last year anyway) and forgeting that players like Bird or Vezpremi (who looked players early) have stagnated or that under Roos, Barry became angry and tired and the whole Nick Davis affair. Again the guy's a good coach but he has had big failures also.

You can cherry pick with Eade too. Before Rocket was our coach, Gilbee wanted to leave, Cross was horrible, Hargrave was being destroyed every week, Brian Lake was undisciplined and Cooney was talented but inconsistent. They all benefitted greatly from Eades influence. Even later the move of Harbrow to the backline was inspired, as was giving Hill and Grant a taste of AFL Football when they weren't ready.

I actually think both are quite comparable really with both making some big mistakes but having their successes far outweigh those mistakes.

[comrade]

I have to call you out on your Roos worship this time Rocco man. Now I think Roos is a very good coach who stole a premiership using a boring negative gameplan. But I'm really kind of sick of people citing Kirk or Mumford (who was killing it for Geelong last year anyway) and forgeting that players like Bird or Vezpremi (who looked players early) have stagnated or that under Roos, Barry became angry and tired and the whole Nick Davis affair. Again the guy's a good coach but he has had big failures also.

You can cherry pick with Eade too. Before Rocket was our coach, Gilbee wanted to leave, Cross was horrible, Hargrave was being destroyed every week, Brian Lake was undisciplined and Cooney was talented but inconsistent. They all benefitted greatly from Eades influence. Even later the move of Harbrow to the backline was inspired, as was giving Hill and Grant a taste of AFL Football when they weren't ready.

I actually think both are quite comparable really with both making some big mistakes but having their successes far outweigh those mistakes.

Plenty of good discussion in this thread and this post is a ripper - well done.

[Mofra]

It's funny. Imagine Roos wasn't in charge of the Swans. Someone like Kirk or now Mumford may have ended up being nowhere near the level they achieved/are achieving under him. I believe someone like Everitt is a great example of a player who could be flourishing under a great coach but of course there is no way to prove otherwise.
I have to disagree here - Mumford came from nowhere whilst he was on Geelong's list.
Kirk would have made it anywhere - he had the desire to work hard and overcome his deficiencies, just like Crossy does.
Every club has players who come from nowhere to stamp an AFL career - with Boyd, Morris, Harbrow & Picken in our best 22, Moles playing football, and our no 1 defender comign through from pick 71 we would also have claims of developing players (especially ignoring our poor record with first round draft picks under Clayton).

I do think Roos is very good at selling brand Roos - I don't know how much his persona trully matches his image, but everyone seems to forget his premiership came off the back of a blessed run with injuries, controlling a list that was paid more than any other in the competition. The "no superstars at Sydney" myth is a fairly obvious piece of spin for mine.

[Rocco Jones]

I have to call you out on your Roos worship this time Rocco man. Now I think Roos is a very good coach who stole a premiership using a boring negative gameplan. But I'm really kind of sick of people citing Kirk or Mumford (who was killing it for Geelong last year anyway) and forgeting that players like Bird or Vezpremi (who looked players early) have stagnated or that under Roos, Barry became angry and tired and the whole Nick Davis affair. Again the guy's a good coach but he has had big failures also.

You can cherry pick with Eade too. Before Rocket was our coach, Gilbee wanted to leave, Cross was horrible, Hargrave was being destroyed every week, Brian Lake was undisciplined and Cooney was talented but inconsistent. They all benefitted greatly from Eades influence. Even later the move of Harbrow to the backline was inspired, as was giving Hill and Grant a taste of AFL Football when they weren't ready.

I actually think both are quite comparable really with both making some big mistakes but having their successes far outweigh those mistakes.

I actually agree with most of what you have had to say. I think there can be a very fine line between greatness and just being good, especially when it comes to the very subjective example of rating an AFL coach.

You mention that I 'cherry pick(ed)' Eade. I was asked for reasons why I don't see him as a great coach. I totally agree that he has delivered more positives than negatives and also quickly admitted I was wrong to call him ordinary (I just view his week to week team selections in this category).

Just for fun here is my positive list
- Giving Gilbee, Cross and Hargrave a real go after they were rotting under Rohde. They went from VFL footty/really struggling in the AFL to being gun players.
- Role of Shaggy. His work with Shaggy has been great. He turned him from a defender who was exposed by everyone to one who regularly took advantage of his opponents. Bit like the fine that Dre has to deal with, hopefully he can do the same with him.
- Immediate improvement when he took over. We went from nothing to just stuffing up a chance to make and hit the finals running.
- Development of Boyd. Turned into a quality player.
- Harbrow as a running small defender.
- Bringing in experienced players in Hudson, Aker, Welsh and Hall. Perfect trading for a team that views themselves as a contender. Getting in quality players for small prices.
- Picken and Morris. Two rookies who were very limited and needed great roles to maximise their strengths and minimise their weaknesses.
- Non dickhead culture at the club.
- Continual work with Cooney
- Great in emdia/doing the off-field things for the club
- The pure facts= 2 prelims in a row is pretty good
- Has tactical styles to counter different styles of quality sides. A lot of our approach against the Saints was great just let down by being overly conservative as well as cracking Geelong's style before anyone IMO in the 2009 prelim.
- and more

My point wasn't to argue that Eade is a dud, far from the truth. I think I was overly harsh as I get that way when I play deveils advocate. I get much more animated when I am arguing against Eade haters. Perhaps you guys are right and Roos really isn't ahead of him at all. It's just, you know, there's one thing Roos has done that Eade hasn't. I can't quite put my finger on it but if Eade does it, I am pretty sure I will be very happy and definitely put Eade in that great coach category I have been prattling on about.

It's a very concrete way to get to greatness but it's a pretty important piece of data when rating something as subjective as being a great AFL coach.

[Mantis]

My point wasn't to argue that Eade is a dud, far from the truth. I think I was overly harsh as I get that way when I play deveils advocate. I get much more animated when I am arguing against Eade haters. Perhaps you guys are right and Roos really isn't ahead of him at all. It's just, you know, there's one thing Roos has done that Eade hasn't. I can't quite put my finger on it but if Eade does it, I am pretty sure I will be very happy and definitely put Eade in that great coach category I have been prattling on about.

It's a very concrete way to get to greatness but it's a pretty important piece of data when rating something as subjective as being a great AFL coach.

Are you trying to play us for fools with this comment?

[Go_Dogs]

Are you trying to play us for fools with this comment?

I'm not sure what you mean by, 'play us for fools'? Rocco's comment seemed to be a tongue in cheek reference to the fact that Roos has coached a premiership which Eade hasn't - which is of course true, and the one blemish on Rocket's otherwise outstanding resume.

[Desipura]

Are you trying to play us for fools with this comment?
Out of the whole article, you happened to focus on one line. Half empty kinda guy hey?

[Mantis]

Out of the whole article, you happened to focus on one line. Half empty kinda guy hey?

Is there an unwritten law that I need to reference the whole post to query one line?

Overall I thought the post was good, but took exception to the piece I highlighted... which is why I had the query.

Anyway, why does it concern you?

[bornadog]

I'm not sure what you mean by, 'play us for fools'? Rocco's comment seemed to be a tongue in cheek reference to the fact that Roos has coached a premiership which Eade hasn't - which is of course true, and the one blemish on Rocket's otherwise outstanding resume.

Rocket has also taken a team into a grand final, which I don't believe is a blemish.

Yes Roos got the premiership, but you can argue that Rocket set it up for him.

Personally, if I had a choice between Roos and Rocket, I would take Rocket everytime.

[Desipura]

Is there an unwritten law that I need to reference the whole post to query one line?

Overall I thought the post was good, but took exception to the piece I highlighted... which is why I had the query.

Anyway, why does it concern you?
You seem to have a strong opinion (mostly negative on a number of posts). I think Droop St hit the nail on the head with his post about your strong opinions. Im awaiting your reply on that. You always want the last say, I await with interest........

[Go_Dogs]

Rocket has also taken a team into a grand final, which I don't believe is a blemish.

Yes Roos got the premiership, but you can argue that Rocket set it up for him.

Personally, if I had a choice between Roos and Rocket, I would take Rocket everytime.

I tend to agree, and certainly think with the strengths of our group, Rocket is a better man to lead us than Roos.

[Mantis]

You seem to have a strong opinion (mostly negative on a number of posts). I think Droop St hit the nail on the head with his post about your strong opinions. Im awaiting your reply on that. You always want the last say, I await with interest........

No idea what you talking about. Which thread is that in?

Anyway how does anything of what you have just posted relate to my comments in this thread? I queried a comment I didn't like which allows you to attack my posting style as I have 'strong opinions'?... Give it a break.

[LostDoggy]

In my (non-professional, just a massive dogs fan) opinion.

Rodney was our best option at the time, he is still probably the best option, he has done so much for the team and the club. He has raised my expectations of my team and a lot of other peoples too.

However, I do not understand why Everitt hasnt been getting more games. We have had a lot of injuries and I think he is a better player than Addison, Williams, Moles, Hill or Stack and this year Hahn and Eagle, who have all been given game time ahead of him. I would almost go as far as saying he is a better player than Wood or Picken too, its too soon to tell with Wood but the way Picken applies himself makes him a 30% player and I just love him.
I know there is the argument about the type of player being replaced and his ideal position but I am of the best player mindest rather than the job required one. Investing game time into this guy seems so logical to me, he is versatile and can be thrown into wherever we need him. So he is not setting the VFL on fire but neither was Grant. Everitt is still a better player than the previous 7 players I have mentioned. I am happy to discuss the pro's and cons of each of these players too.

In Rod I trust, so there must be something else happening like an attitude issue.

[stefoid]

I think Stack is getting a game based on his role, and is being fast tracked as plan B should Aker's implosion prove permanent. His competition (obviously) is then Aker.

Everitt is competing with Hill and Hahn, and currently both are keeping him out of the side, by a bee's willy I imagine. Everitt has the power to change that by playing a blinder or two in the seconds.

[Mofra]

However, I do not understand why Everitt hasnt been getting more games. We have had a lot of injuries and I think he is a better player than Addison, Williams, Moles, Hill or Stack and this year Hahn and Eagle, who have all been given game time ahead of him. I would almost go as far as saying he is a better player than Wood or Picken too, its too soon to tell with Wood but the way Picken applies himself makes him a
It's not so much who is the better player that is the question, but what they bring to the team that matters.
If Everitt's a backman, he's behind Lake, Morris, Gilbee, Harbrow, Shaggy, Williams, Murphy & on current form Wood.
As a tagger/run with type he would be behind Cross, Boyd, Picken, Ward and Reid.
As a forward obviously Hall, Johnno, Gia, Higgins and Grant are ahead of him, with Hill being our second highest goal scorer he's ahead too. Everitt can't play Stack's crumbling role so that rules him out there.
In the ruck Hudosn, Minson & Roughy are in front of him, and Williams was pinch-hitting in the Demons game too.
I'm not certain Everitt would offer us more than Hahn even though Hahn's been in poor form recently; at Willy Little, Rose and Jones take the marking forward options up, and now Panos is getting senior gametime so Everitt gets limited time there.
I think the club have expressed misgivings about his pace to play a pure midfield role, although I think his running capacity has improved this year and his long kicking means he could play wing IMO.
The problem here is Eagle has been improving, and Wood's form has meant Gilbee pushes up to a wing at times.

I don't want to sound overly harsh on him because I rate him as a player, but even if he is (say) the 20th most talented player available on our list for team balance reasons he may find himself outside of the best 22 which he currently is.

[LostDoggy]

I would say he is in our best 22 easily, however on the other hand I think all this game time at Willy is doing him the world of good and that in turn will only add to the depth of our playing stock!!

[Dazza]

People saying Everitt hasn't been given enough time to prove himself have got to be kidding. While he has improved this year you can't say he deserves another shot right now because his VFL form hasn't warranted it.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Eade's been a good coach and was absolutely the right choice at the time. As many posters have noted, he's changed the culture and the perception of the footy club. Along with Rose - he's been our best recruit since I've been alive. Membership continues to grow, we've been able to cement our position in the AFL and we've been reasonably successful on field since he started his tenure in 2005. No doubting any of the above.

However, if he's to be called a 'great' coach then he simply has to win a Premiership. We had/have the talent and really should of defeated St. Kilda last year in the PF. We've blown a few big games under him (08 QF, 08 PF, 09 QF, 09 PF) and so this finals series really is the big test. He's obviously got some big decisions to make in the next ten weeks because the side(s) we take into the finals may make or break Rocket.

* If Eade persists with Eagleton, Hahn and Aker in September they have to deliver. If they don't, he looks silly. All three have failed in 08/09 when it's really matters. Needless to say, two of them generally struggle in any 'big' game against quality opposition. Eade's decision on what he does (primarily with the first two) is huge. He's had faith in them even up 'til now despite their ordinary form. Will he keep it that way and bite the bullet, hoping history doesn't repeat itself for a third season straight?

* Everitt hasn't been tearing the house down at Williamstown but he's still playing well enough. Probably never going to be a player to dominate at any level of football. For arguments sake, both Grant and Stack did little at VFL level but have had varying success at AFL level. Hahn played well v WCE but should have been dropped prior to trial Everitt in his role as a half forward. The MC have to exhaust all possibilities; they have to know if Everitt can offer anything up forward and right now they don't know with any certainty. There's still time to trial this but it's been frustrating watching the likes of Hahn and Eagleton run around when we could be trying to develop Everitt - a guy who still has 8+ years left whereas Hahn and Eagleton are practically finished.

The thing I have admired about Collingwood this year is that they haven't been afraid to drop senior players. Fraser, O'Bree, Lockyer, Davis, Brown and Medhurst have all played VFL already. They've thrown their side around so that come September, they have a perfect understanding of their lists capabilities should a Davis/Lockyer/O'Bree not be performing to expectation. Unfortunately, our MC haven't done that and there's been players (for 2-3 years) who get a game every week regardless of form. We have had injuries so it's been a bit of a juggling act but we still could have managed our list better.

Case in point IS Grant. 80% of posters/supporters had declared him a write off and there were only a handful of us saying he just needed time. He's delivering on a week to week basis now, the only area of concern is his goal kicking but he's probably the smartest (besides Murphy? Gilbee?) player in our side. The point is - we cannot play the same side we played in the last two finals series. Grant should (and probably will) play, Hall takes Welsh's spot and Williams (if fit) will play. There's no reason why Everitt (or Reid) couldn't replace Hahn and why Wood (on current form) couldn't cement a position either.

I hope the MC have an open mind going into the finals series because we're going to have to find something different to take a step or two further. That's why posters have been frustrated at times this season when they haven't been creative. If we lose trying our hand at all options - fine, we just weren't good enough ... but losing in the same manner with the same cattle is like beating a dead horse.

[Rocco Jones]

Are you trying to play us for fools with this comment?


I'm not sure what you mean by, 'play us for fools'? Rocco's comment seemed to be a tongue in cheek reference to the fact that Roos has coached a premiership which Eade hasn't - which is of course true, and the one blemish on Rocket's otherwise outstanding resume.

Griffen #16 has it right. If I was playing anyone for a fool it was myself Mantis for having such a black and white view on what makes a coach great. I normally cringe at fans associating winning a flag as the only signpost for being a great senior coach.

[azabob]

I hope the MC have an open mind going into the finals series because we're going to have to find something different to take a step or two further. That's why posters have been frustrated at times this season when they haven't been creative. If we lose trying our hand at all options - fine, we just weren't good enough ... but losing in the same manner with the same cattle is like beating a dead horse.

Great post TBB, too long to quote it all. It was well thought out and well reasoned.

Can't wait to see how the second half of the season unfolds on the field and in the match commitee.

[Ghost Dog]

I hope the MC have an open mind going into the finals series because we're going to have to find something different to take a step or two further. That's why posters have been frustrated at times this season when they haven't been creative. If we lose trying our hand at all options - fine, we just weren't good enough ... but losing in the same manner with the same cattle is like beating a dead horse.

Very well put. The inclusion of a tall forward ( Hally ) is not enough. The 'cattle' we used last year are exactly that. 1 year older. This is what confuses me about Everitt. He has such pace and shows so much enthusiasm. I guess the MC knows more than we do but it must be very frustrating for the kid. It would be awful to see him go elsewhere and in the meantime, we are still flogging our older players and not taking many risks selection wise. Maybe other posters are right and something is amiss attitude wise.

[FrediKanoute]

So, in a long winded way I am agreeing when you say we appear at times to be thinking short term or conservative. But knowing how desperate all our chief decision makers are to try and grab a premiership, in a way I can understand the motivations. Because there is so much emotion in a football club, not 100% of decisions are rationally based or with an eye to the future.

Sport is all about short-termism, because success is fleeting. Even a 3-peat at the start of the decade is quickly forgotten as champions retire and the club returns to the mediocrity of scrapping with the also-ran's.

[boydogs]

I don't want to sound overly harsh on him because I rate him as a player, but even if he is (say) the 20th most talented player available on our list for team balance reasons he may find himself outside of the best 22 which he currently is.

I don't follow that reasoning - the 20th best player can't get a game on team balance, even though they are possibly the most flexible player on the list?

[Before I Die]

Case in point IS Grant. 80% of posters/supporters had declared him a write off and there were only a handful of us saying he just needed time. He's delivering on a week to week basis now, the only area of concern is his goal kicking but he's probably the smartest (besides Murphy? Gilbee?) player in our side.

Isn't this an argument to support the idea that the MC knows what it is doing. Despite 80% of posters believing Grant was no good, the MC knew better. Now with 80% of posters saying Everitt should be playing, perhaps once again the MC knows best.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Isn't this an argument to support the idea that the MC knows what it is doing. Despite 80% of posters believing Grant was no good, the MC knew better. Now with 80% of posters saying Everitt should be playing, perhaps once again the MC knows best.

I've been pretty supportive of Grant long before the bandwagon and I don't think it's as straight forward to say the MC get it right every time. They don't.

The Everitt saga was more about Hahn continually getting a game IMO. It shouldn't have been a hard decision to swap them over for a couple of weeks. At the very least it might allow Hahn to regain some touch and confidence. Instead, we've played Hahn down back and whilst he did OK against WCE if this is his position - he shouldn't be in the side.

[Before I Die]

I've been pretty supportive of Grant long before the bandwagon and I don't think it's as straight forward to say the MC get it right every time. They don't.

I'm not implying that you haven't been supportive of Grant or that the MC gets it right every time. I am simply suggesting that Grant's success makes the running score,
MC: 1, WOOF posters (majority): 0

[Mofra]

I don't follow that reasoning - the 20th best player can't get a game on team balance, even though they are possibly the most flexible player on the list?
If we had Jolly, Sandilands and Cox on our list, with Hudson & Minson would we play all five players if they were our amongst most talented 20 players? All can arguably for forward (with varying degrees of success) so could be described as flexible.

I stand by my comments earler.

[Mofra]

* Everitt hasn't been tearing the house down at Williamstown but he's still playing well enough. Probably never going to be a player to dominate at any level of football. For arguments sake, both Grant and Stack did little at VFL level but have had varying success at AFL level.
Grant had haul of 4 goals prior to his promotion, and has a defined role within the team.
Stack is flashy, provides the X factor with a lack of crumbers on our list, and has a defined role in the team.

Everitt has not carved out a role in the team. I think Everitt is a better player than Stack and a better kick than Grant but he needs to find a position and own it.

FWIW he's more talented than Picken and Morris as well - I wouldn't want to drop either of them for Skinny.

[Mantis]

Are we getting to a point that we just have to play Everitt for 4 to 6 of the next 9 games just to get some more games into him... and in a sense to keep him happy.

I know we head into the the 2nd half of the season with a chance to push for a top 4 spot and hopefully towards a flag, and we can't compromise our chances of this, but we really need to try and develop Everitt.

I would hate come the end of the year that Everitt moves on citing a lack of opportunity, because at the moment that looks a distinct possibility. At the moment we have an ageing team (not list) and it would be a disaster to lose a talented player like Andrejs. Although he is yet to pin down a defined position/ role he looks to be a very capable player who could play number of roles over a 10 year period. I don't want to lose that.

[Mofra]

Are we getting to a point that we just have to play Everitt for 4 to 6 of the next 9 games just to get some more games into him... and in a sense to keep him happy.
Maybe, and I think Reid might be in the same boat.

The problem with Everitt is where? I think with his footskills he could play a wing-type role, especially considering he would have a height advantage over most opponents so would provide a chop-out for backmen under pressure to kick to. I don't think the match committee agree with me though.

[Mantis]

Maybe, and I think Reid might be in the same boat.

Reid signed a 2yr deal at the end of 2009, Everitt is out of contract at the end of this year (edit: apparantely he isn't out of contract til end of 2011).... Big difference just there + Reid had an injury interrupted pre-season, Andrejs had his best.


The problem with Everitt is where? I think with his footskills he could play a wing-type role, especially considering he would have a height advantage over most opponents so would provide a chop-out for backmen under pressure to kick to. I don't think the match committee agree with me though.

I would like to see him played in a similiar role or perhaps as a HF, but your last sentence sums up the situation pretty well.

We are throwing games into Williams (before injury) who doesn't have anywhere near as much natural football talent as Everitt, yet we see the big picture with Tom. I wish we would/ could do the same with Andrejs.

[Go_Dogs]

Terrific post TBB, good read.

[LostDoggy]

Sport is all about short-termism, because success is fleeting. Even a 3-peat at the start of the decade is quickly forgotten as champions retire and the club returns to the mediocrity of scrapping with the also-ran's.

Not so sure i agree. I doubt ANY of us, ANY bulldogs supporter would forget a premiership in the near future, let alone a 3peat. I'd accept ten years of recent Richmond success after a premiership, just to see what it feels like to win.

[The Coon Dog]

I'd accept ten years of recent Richmond success after a premiership, just to see what it feels like to win.

I hear ya'!

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Maybe, and I think Reid might be in the same boat.

The problem with Everitt is where? I think with his footskills he could play a wing-type role, especially considering he would have a height advantage over most opponents so would provide a chop-out for backmen under pressure to kick to. I don't think the match committee agree with me though.

Keep in mind that the club tried to offload Everitt at the start of the year due to salary cap restrictions but after unsuccessful discussions with both Carlton and Melbourne he was retained. I would suggest with Ward, Higgins, Williams and Akermanis to return, Everitt's chances of finals selection are doubtful at best. A pity really because he has shown ability at times and with an ageing list he warrants perseverance for the future.

[The Coon Dog]

Keep in mind that the club tried to offload Everitt at the start of the year due to salary cap restrictions

No, not at all.

Ricky Nixon, his manager contacted other clubs to gauge their interest, as he felt Andrejs wasn't getting enough senior games.

I'm sure we would have traded Andrejs on if a decent enough offer had come our way. It didn't.

[Desipura]

Regardless of what type of spin the club put on it. Had St Kilda not given away thier first pick for Lovett, they would have given that same pick to us for Everitt. Our club would have jumped at that.

[Mantis]

Regardless of what type of spin the club put on it. Had St Kilda not given away thier first pick for Lovett, they would have given that same pick to us for Everitt. Our club would have jumped at that.

It was reported somewhere that we were looking for a pick under 20 for Everitt so you are probably correct on the St.Kilda call.

[Desipura]

It was reported somewhere that we were looking for a pick under 20 for Everitt so you are probably correct on the St.Kilda call.
At the time, I was hoping like hell it would happen.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Grant had haul of 4 goals prior to his promotion, and has a defined role within the team.
Stack is flashy, provides the X factor with a lack of crumbers on our list, and has a defined role in the team.

Everitt has not carved out a role in the team. I think Everitt is a better player than Stack and a better kick than Grant but he needs to find a position and own it.

FWIW he's more talented than Picken and Morris as well - I wouldn't want to drop either of them for Skinny.

Is this Everit's fault? Not really.

The MC seem content that they don't know where to play him, even though they haven't given him an extended run on the wing or as a half forward. They've marked his cards before he's even had a chance to impress (or fail).

We persisted playing Everitt as a defender for 2-3 years and it hasn't worked out. Now it appears they aren't sure what to do with him. I agree with you that Grant and Stack have specific roles in our side but that's only because they've been given them. We need to give Everitt a role to play to see how he goes about it. When Hahn has been dreadful for the majority of this season thus far, it was the perfect chance to trial him as that half forward. He's done OK for Williamstown up forward each week and in the times he's played forward at AFL level, he's done OK too.


We are throwing games into Williams (before injury) who doesn't have anywhere near as much natural football talent as Everitt, yet we see the big picture with Tom. I wish we would/ could do the same with Andrejs.

Nice comment Mantis and I think you've summed it up well.

Everitt has a lot of natural talent, he's had a good pre-season and has improved his game. He's still not a defender - granted - but I wish we'd try and develop him like we have with Williams. We need to get creative - they have to try and create a role for Everitt. Some players you have to find a way to include and Andrejs is just about at that point.

If he left, we'd get burnt IMO. Especially since Johnson, Aker, Hahn and Hall will be gone in 2 years.

[LostDoggy]

We need to give Everitt a role to play to see how he goes about it. When Hahn has been dreadful for the majority of this season thus far, it was the perfect chance to trial him as that half forward. He's done OK for Williamstown up forward each week and in the times he's played forward at AFL level, he's done OK too.

-
...but I wish we'd try and develop him like we have with Williams. We need to get creative - they have to try and create a role for Everitt. Some players you have to find a way to include and Andrejs is just about at that point.

If he left, we'd get burnt IMO. Especially since Johnson, Aker, Hahn and Hall will be gone in 2 years.

I agree TBB...
so what you're saying, in a nutshell, is Everitt's ultimate success or failure is just as much the Coach's / MC's responsibility as it is Everitts himself? Given that it's undeniable he has heaps of potential.

[Ghost Dog]

Keep in mind that the club tried to offload Everitt at the start of the year due to salary cap restrictions .

This is not what I read. Here is an article that seems to suggest that the club never wanted to offload him as you say.

Interview with Rocket Eade, Herald sun.

The Everitt saga over trade week was messy. What actually happened?

It was unfortunate in many ways, but I understood it. Ricky (Nixon) spoke to me and said, 'As a good manager, I have advised Andrejs I will look around for it (opportunities)', which was fine.

I don't think Andrejs was overly keen about it either, but he understood it. A few teams spoke to him.

We said he's a required player, but if there is a good deal we would look at it. So we are rapt he stayed.

But like any player, he has to work hard. We won't give him games on a plate. It's the same with Josh Hill, who missed out in the finals. He needs to come back with an attitude that he wants to tear the house down.

I also read an interview with Everitt that suggested he really wanted to stay at W. Oval. Can't find it though.

[Ghost Dog]

We persisted playing Everitt as a defender for 2-3 years and it hasn't worked out.



He claims to enjoy playing on the wing. See link below.
http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/tabid/4112/default.aspx?newsid=96173

He has a lot of pace and guts. Certainly harder at the ball than 5 other players I can think of.

Judging the amount of discussion this thread has sparked, many supporters are hoping we see him on the field soon. Me included.

[Ghost Dog]

From AFL.com

http://www.afl.com.au/tabid/208/default.aspx?newsid=91980

"There was no one really driving a trade. It was all a bit of talk," he told afl.com.au this week.

"There was nothing really to come out of it at all, no bad blood or anything. It was mainly the media pumping it up.

"I never wanted to leave; definitely not. It was all a bit bizarre and something different to read really."

[Ghost Dog]

It's not so much who is the better player that is the question, but what they bring to the team that matters.
If Everitt's a backman, he's behind Lake, Morris, Gilbee, Harbrow, Shaggy, Williams, Murphy & on current form Wood.
As a tagger/run with type he would be behind Cross, Boyd, Picken, Ward and Reid.
As a forward obviously Hall, Johnno, Gia, Higgins and Grant are ahead of him, with Hill being our second highest goal scorer he's ahead too. Everitt can't play Stack's crumbling role so that rules him out there.

I don't want to sound overly harsh on him because I rate him as a player, but even if he is (say) the 20th most talented player available on our list for team balance reasons he may find himself outside of the best 22 which he currently is.

Waaaiiiit a second. You rate Stack over Everitt?
Don't agree there. Stack may have kicked a few goals last game but they were pretty easily palmed off to him. Also a better player than Hill IMO.

I get the feeling this kid is going to another club unless he gets some game time.

[macca]

If the dogs cannot fit Everitt in their best 22, then he will be going to another club.Wasted time and resources on a 4 year investment.We should be playing him now, and lead him to his prime from age 22+.He can read the play, is a good kick, not a bad mark, has speed, where can we fit him permenantly? Even Jason Blake has less talent, and has played more games with less influence than him!

[Mofra]

Is this Everit's fault? Not really.

...

We persisted playing Everitt as a defender for 2-3 years and it hasn't worked out. Now it appears they aren't sure what to do with him.
I understand the sentiment of the post, but I think the onus is on a player to find temselves a role in the side. Skinny was recruited as a backman and he just doesn't put enough body-pressure on the opponent when playing there. The club is bigger than the individual and it is Andrejs' responsibility to pkay well enough in another position so he can force his way into the team.

I note that German hasn't played him back in the games I've seen, which is a positive - helping him find another role to force his way back into the side.

[Mofra]

Waaaiiiit a second. You rate Stack over Everitt?
Don't agree there. Stack may have kicked a few goals last game but they were pretty easily palmed off to him. Also a better player than Hill IMO.
Absolutely not, re-read my posts.

It is a simple case of a player having defined a role within a team being easier to pick than a player who comes into the team and hopes the coach will make other guys step aside for him.

[bornadog]

Waaaiiiit a second. You rate Stack over Everitt?
Don't agree there. Stack may have kicked a few goals last game but they were pretty easily palmed off to him. Also a better player than Hill IMO.

I agree Stack needs to go in harder and put his body on the line as well as do more chasing and tackling, however, he has kicked 10 goals and contributed another 6 due to his excellent ability to position himself on the ground.

Unfair to compare Everitt and Stack as they are not vying for the same role in the team.

[GVGjr]

If the dogs cannot fit Everitt in their best 22, then he will be going to another club.Wasted time and resources on a 4 year investment.We should be playing him now, and lead him to his prime from age 22+.He can read the play, is a good kick, not a bad mark, has speed, where can we fit him permenantly? Even Jason Blake has less talent, and has played more games with less influence than him!

I honestly believe that Everitt has the talent to be a 150 game player but I do question if he has the desire to get the most out of his ability. I'm also still unsure where he should be played.

I'm not worried about how players fit into other sides but Blake, despite his limitations, performs a role for the Saints but I don't think we have one clearly defined for Everitt.

[Ghost Dog]

I agree Stack needs to go in harder and put his body on the line as well as do more chasing and tackling, however, he has kicked 10 goals and contributed another 6 due to his excellent ability to position himself on the ground.

Unfair to compare Everitt and Stack as they are not vying for the same role in the team.

Ok, fair point.
Those arguing for his inclusion have copped a fair shelacking on these forums from those 'In the know'.
Leg speed has been criticized, according to some here by Rocket himself.
Those in other clubs rate his leg speed. No idea what the real story is.
Work rate is questioned.

He will fire on the big stage IMO. Needs to be given responsibility and the club to show patience and faith in him. Just like Hill. Which Role? not quite sure, various could be trialled.

[LostDoggy]

Ok, fair point.
Those arguing for his inclusion have copped a fair shelacking on these forums from those 'In the know'.
Leg speed has been criticized, according to some here by Rocket himself.
Those in other clubs rate his leg speed. No idea what the real story is.
Work rate is questioned.

He will fire on the big stage IMO. Needs to be given responsibility and the club to show patience and faith in him. Just like Hill. Which Role? not quite sure, various could be trialled.
He seemd to be in favour and was playing good, it was only injury why he went out of side. Has not been able to get back, bit hard to understand, when we have not been playing that well.

[BulldogBelle]

Sounds stupid, but what if Everitt has signed with Gold Coast (I know he's only just renewed his contract) hence why he can't buy a game at the moment.

[Mantis]

Sounds stupid, but what if Everitt has signed with Gold Coast (I know he's only just renewed his contract) hence why he can't buy a game at the moment.

That's impossible because as you say he is contracted for this year and next.

[LostDoggy]

Judging by Higgins's form in the last game, I would have Everitt playing that spot this week. Don't get me wrong, I like Higgins as a player but lately for whatever reason he has been way off the boil. I wish Everitt would get a turn and I would even prefer Eagleton as I rate him too. He has the ability to break it open.

[Ghost Dog]

Some footage of the lad




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=im2nJtr-RUE

[Hotdog60]

If he works on what ever the MC thinks he needs to work on then only big things can happen for the future. Next year will most likely see at lest 4 senior positions open up and it's up to Everitt to make sure he grabs one.
I like to see him on the half forward flank with a roving license to work up the wing.

[Rocco Jones]

If he works on what ever the MC thinks he needs to work on then only big things can happen for the future. Next year will most likely see at lest 4 senior positions open up and it's up to Everitt to make sure he grabs one.
I like to see him on the half forward flank with a roving license to work up the wing.

Thing is that 3 of those senior players are out tomorrow and he is still out of the side, however I do agree with the gist of what you have to say.

I am in the 'Dre should be playing/more needs to be done with him crew' but I also don't think it's as doom and gloom as a few of my fellow crew members do. He is being named in the extended bench and all that, it seems like it is about not being able to find a role for him. Rocket praised his work ethic during the pre-season.

FWIW I think this pre-season will be a bit of a fork in the road for Dre where he/we/whatever club he plays for might have to decide go either build up his pure fitness to equip him for a running role or gain extra muscle/weight to play more of a KP/3rd tall role. I am definitely a fan of the former and I think Eade and co are as well.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Thought Andrejs Did well. Hope he can keep his spot in the team.

[Ghost Dog]

Thought Andrejs Did well. Hope he can keep his spot in the team.

Right. Conditions did not suit him, but looked as good as 5 or 6 other players on the field. Thought he moved well, one shot at goal a bit selfish, but had a crack. Great to see him in the strip; Well done Andrejs. We Encourage you!.

[Go_Dogs]

I thought he was alright last night and showed enough to suggest he could play a role up forwards, as the conditions definitely didn't suit him.

Will be interesting to see if he retains his place, hopefully he can.

[Mofra]

Hahn's role forward must be looking shaky; Everitt is arguably more versatile and I rate his footskills higher.

[LostDoggy]

Hahn's role forward must be looking shaky; Everitt is arguably more versatile and I rate his footskills higher.

Have to agree with that. Higgins looked very slow and lacked the power to jump also. Why we play injured players has got me stuffed. If he has OP then rest him until finals. Playing as he is he is next to useless.

[Desipura]

Since his first season and perhaps the Collingwood game last year, Everitt has done nothing for me to suggest he can cement a spot in our team permanently.
Does not take enough contested marks
Does not have a massive tank.
Although not poor, I think his kicking skills are overrated
His decision making skills & pace are just ok.

If he was to play centre half forwward he would have to improve a) his tank and b) his pace of the mark. Then there is the question wheter he has the smarts to get alot of the ball ie they way Murphy does when he plays forward.

I will say he has improved his committment to the ball in a contested situation. He just does not have an outstanding feature to his game.

[GVGjr]

Thought Andrejs Did well. Hope he can keep his spot in the team.

I didn't mind his performance as well especially given the conditions. The problem is that it probably wasn't good enough to hold out other players.

[DOG GOD]

Based on performance last night if Aker is to come back in then surely Higgins has to be given a rest. I thought Dre looked ok considering the conditions and certainly adds versatility in being able to play fwd, back and ruck.

[chef]

Since his first season and perhaps the Collingwood game last year, Everitt has done nothing for me to suggest he can cement a spot in our team permanently.
Does not take enough contested marks
Does not have a massive tank.
Although not poor, I think his kicking skills are overrated
His decision making skills & pace are just OK.

If he was to play centre half forward he would have to improve a) his tank and b) his pace of the mark. Then there is the question whether he has the smarts to get a lot of the ball ie they way Murphy does when he plays forward.

I will say he has improved his commitment to the ball in a contested situation. He just does not have an outstanding feature to his game.

This^^.

He's a jack of all trades but a master of none. Versatility needs to be his strength if he is going to hold his spot in our best 22.

[Mantis]

He's a jack of all trades but a master of none. Versatility needs to be his strength if he is going to hold his spot in our best 22.

Is it?

[chef]

Is it?

It's not yet at a level for Everitt to be a permanent member of the 22 IMO, but with a extended run in the firsts(this won't come until next season) and a bit more confidence in his ability he has the makings of a good swing man.

[Doc26]

Everitt just needs solid weeks into him.
Get his confidence right and for him to find his place in the Team and he will become far more than what is being spoken about. At the moment we're not seeing the flair that he will provide given time.

[Mofra]

He just does not have an outstanding feature to his game.
I think his disposal is very much above average, he just needs to find his spot.
He offered us more than Hahn would have last round, but if Hall & Roughy are the ins I can't see him holding his spot.

[stefoid]

Since his first season and perhaps the Collingwood game last year, Everitt has done nothing for me to suggest he can cement a spot in our team permanently.
Does not take enough contested marks
Does not have a massive tank.
Although not poor, I think his kicking skills are overrated
His decision making skills & pace are just ok.

If he was to play centre half forwward he would have to improve a) his tank and b) his pace of the mark. Then there is the question wheter he has the smarts to get alot of the ball ie they way Murphy does when he plays forward.

I will say he has improved his committment to the ball in a contested situation. He just does not have an outstanding feature to his game.

So hes not an instant superstar, but the more usual: gets better slowly and peaks after 23yo type of player.

pros: he is a fairly athletic 194cm player with decent skills and this year has shown he doesnt mind getting his knees dirty to contest the ball.

I think he could be a pretty decent player in another 10kilos and 50 games.

I think eventually his position will end up being tall defender -- hargrave role, but with extra size on his side.

[mighty_west]

I think eventually his position will end up being tall defender -- hargrave role, but with extra size on his side.

I always thought Everitt would end up being that Hargrave type, take the third tall etc, use his run out of defense.

Problem is, how many years does Shaggy have left in him? Plus Easton Wood has really come on, and plays that defensive role quite well, great run, intensity levels very good, Everitt has issues in that area, and he played a very good game on Jay Schultz, which suggested he could very well play that Hargrave role, Boumann also developing nicely as a running tall defender...which leaves Everitt?

Andrejs can pitch hit in the ruck, which he has done a few times now, but we do have 2 full time ruck options, plus Roughead, Cordy & Prato also showing good signs for the future.

Everitt as a forward, similar issues, Grant has overtaken him like Wood has down back, bringing in Barry Hall has pretty much taken that Hahn roll, and the likes of Jones, Roughead / Cordy combo, Panos as well developing as genuine forwards.

Everitt could play on a wing, but does he really use his height to his advantage? does he have the intensity levels required? I do like Everitt, i really do, but there are a few issues there.

[Cyberdoggie]

Everitt is actually quite slow for someone under 195cm in the AFL.

If your not in the talls category you need to have something that sets you apart from them. That would be speed or general defensive or marking ability, and unfortunately as has been said here previously he is a good all-round player but apart from some good kick penetration, he doesn't have a skill that he is a master at.

At 193cm and 87kg's, you probably don't want him getting too much heavier. His speed and agility aren't at a level of a player like Gilbee or Wood, and his real lack of acceleration off the mark/ recovery and changing directions, means he's not an option to play on a tall or a smaller quick player in defense.

Up forward he did some good little 1%ers like Grant, and looks ok, although i don't think Darwin is a good place for us to judge him on his marking and leading ability, not many players could hold a mark with the slippery and sweaty conditions. Looking forward it will be difficult for us to select him up forward with Barry coming back, as Grant will always get the nod in front of him, and Hahn probably still has some tickets left with the coach.

I really hope Andrejs can find his spot, at least he is giving it his all this year, not like Josh Hill.

[Ghost Dog]

Everitt is actually quite slow for someone under 195cm in the AFL..

Evidence ? Time trials within the club? Also feel the Darwin game not the best one to judge.

I tried to stick up for him in a thread, re his pace and my PM box started getting mails from people 'close to Rocket' telling me I was wrong. :rolleyes: I don't listen to hearsay and am yet to be convinced either way.

What I know is, other clubs have rated his pace in the past. Saints, Carlton - have read their draft profiles of him.


and Hahn probably still has some tickets left with the coach..

Swap Everitt for Hahn? interested in your view.


I really hope Andrejs can find his spot, at least he is giving it his all this year, not like Josh Hill.

I'm not sure that he has been giving it his all. Reports from those 'closer to Rocket' say his work rate has been questioned. For mine, feel he will turn it on come the big stage. needs a confidence boost / bit of faith. Do question his decision making. Shockingly overconfident shot at goal instead of a centering kick in Q4 v port.


would like to see him given a bit more of a run, but at this time of year, tricky choices.

Encourage you Andrejs! Go hard mate.

[LostDoggy]

I thought one of his attractions come draft time was a fantastic agility score at draft camp. So I don't think athleticism is an issue. For mine, he doesn't seem to like body contact. Not as big a deal for an outside runner but it is when you are 195cm and not Koutafides.

[GVGjr]

Everitt just needs solid weeks into him.
Get his confidence right and for him to find his place in the Team and he will become far more than what is being spoken about. At the moment we're not seeing the flair that he will provide given time.

It appears the coach does not have the confidence in him to play him as a defender which is probably his most natural position. Everitt also does not appear to be a consideration for the wing so I think his best chance is to somehow convince the coach that he could offer some value as a mobile forward.

He's got the ability required but obviously hasn't worked hard enough on the areas of deficiency that must have been pointed out to him.

[Doc26]

It appears the coach does not have the confidence in him to play him as a defender which is probably his most natural position. Everitt also does not appear to be a consideration for the wing so I think his best chance is to somehow convince the coach that he could offer some value as a mobile forward.

He's got the ability required but obviously hasn't worked hard enough on the areas of deficiency that must have been pointed out to him.

I'm just not convinced it's all to do with Dre's work rate although lifting it obviously would do no harm. I might be reading too much into it but he strikes me as someone who lacks assertiveness and confidence and a show of faith in him by the MC I feel would work wonders. There's a whole lot of upside in getting him right and would hate to see it wasted. I don't endorse the MC's approach to date of taking a cane to him well at least as severe as it would seem.

[FrediKanoute]

I thought he did ok in last weeks game. Probably faded in and out of the game, but still did some nice things. For mine he is a useful player to have in the side capable of playing just about any position. He offers more than Hahn on current form does, has better skills than Addison and appears more interested than Stack and Hill combined.

Will he get dropped this week? Probably, someone has to make way for Hall and probably Aker. The problem as I see it though is that if he'd kicked 13 goals against Port he would still have been odd's on to be dropped.....

[The Bulldogs Bite]

He's got a few areas he certainly needs to improve, but he won't get better running around with Williamstown. He's a player that needs 15 games to find his groove. The coaching staff appear to have made their minds up on him already though, so why did we bother keeping him?

Everitt should replace Hahn in his role but it won't happen for longer than 1-2 weeks.

[GVGjr]

I tried to stick up for him in a thread, re his pace and my PM box started getting mails from people 'close to Rocket' telling me I was wrong. :rolleyes: I don't listen to hearsay and am yet to be convinced either way.


I don't think he is slow either. From memory he tested very well with his agility at the AFL draft camp the year he was drafted. He was also a state high jumper so his athleticism should be OK. He's certainly not 'midfield' quick but if he can eventually hold down one of the 3 tall defenders roles or CHF he should be more than quick enough.



Swap Everitt for Hahn? interested in your view.


I think this has some merit. He might need to improve his fitness level and play the forward role the way Murphy does rather than the crash and bash style of Hahn but I think that is one of the reasons why he has spent a fair bit of time as a forward with Williamstown.

[Rocco Jones]

I believe comments about Dre's lack of speed from Eade were in relation to a role on the wing/runner. I think he has good pace and especially agility for a tall but as GVG mentioned, he certainly isn't midfield quick. Part of why he is so Jack of all trades, master of none at the moment. He is pretty quick for a tall IMO but that doesn't help him in the short term as he seems unable to fill a KP role. As a runner he isn't quick and doesn't really use his height to an advantage.

It can be a fine line between creating headaches for the opposition because you're too tall or fast and being exposed by your opponent because you're either not strong or fast enough. I think I have mentioned it already in this thread, Goddard once had these issues.

[GVGjr]

He is pretty quick for a tall IMO but that doesn't help him in the short term as he seems unable to fill a KP role. As a runner he isn't quick and doesn't really use his height to an advantage.

It can be a fine line between creating headaches for the opposition because you're too tall or fast and being exposed by your opponent because you're either not strong or fast enough. I think I have mentioned it already in this thread, Goddard once had these issues.

I think that is it in a nutshell. He's not quite there in either speed or strength and that will limit him for the short term. The Goddard example you raised is a good one.

[bornadog]

I thought he did ok in last weeks game. Probably faded in and out of the game, but still did some nice things.

It would have been better if he had of played the permanent forward roll last week, but he was required in the ruck, which I don't think he is really suited to.

I would like to see him play more up forward and see how he goes.

[Ghost Dog]

I'm just not convinced it's all to do with Dre's work rate although lifting it obviously would do no harm. I might be reading too much into it but he strikes me as someone who lacks assertiveness and confidence and a show of faith in him by the MC I feel would work wonders. There's a whole lot of upside in getting him right and would hate to see it wasted. I don't endorse the MC's approach to date of taking a cane to him well at least as severe as it would seem.

Totally Agree. Did anyone watch him behind the Mic on the Bulldogs Hall of fame ( Bulldogs TV )? He has a gentle character that's for sure.


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_3mpRvDU8bXQ/TERoJCJL60I/AAAAAAAABRk/0aba7r_cN1M/s320/andre.jpg

A different approach to get him where he needs to be?
Just a hunch, Ambassador to the Adult Migrant team, send him up to the Tiwi Islands to run with the kids, try something different to help him fill his own shoes.

Put him on the Wing Rocket. Close to the boundary where he can hear the cheers of the fans and their 'constructive criticism'. Watch him lift and run. The man will out.

[Mofra]

I believe comments about Dre's lack of speed from Eade were in relation to a role on the wing/runner. I think he has good pace and especially agility for a tall but as GVG mentioned, he certainly isn't midfield quick. Part of why he is so Jack of all trades, master of none at the moment. He is pretty quick for a tall IMO but that doesn't help him in the short term as he seems unable to fill a KP role. As a runner he isn't quick and doesn't really use his height to an advantage.
Is it top line pace or acceleration that is the issue?
Either way he offered us more than Hahn has this season, but I can't see him holding his spot with Roughy to come back in.

[LongWait]

Skinny took a good contested mark in slippery conditions against Port and then went on to confidently slot our second goal. The guy certainly could be a real handfull if played as a high half forward or even as a second option deep beside Barry.

Like many on here, I think Andrejs marches to the beat of a different drum and lacks confidence in his own ability. For whatever reason, the MC ensures Andrejs has to do more than any of our other young players to keep/regain his spot in the team and perversely this is exactly what will prevent him from going to the next level.

When we have persevered with Andrejs, he has gradually gotten better and better, as was evidenced by his performances at the start of the season. Up to the point this season when he injured his ankle, Skinny was definitely in our best 22. If given the same opportunity again to regain his confidence and adjust to the tempo of AFL I think we will have a real player on our hands. It will be a crying shame if he is dropped, loses confidence and ends up as yet another wasted talent.

[Rocco Jones]

I like Dre's game today.

He made a few errors but it was good to see him move well and be constantly involved in the game. It looked like he didn't trust his own disposal at times but hopefully he can stay in the seniors for awhile to boost his confidence. He ended up with 5 score assists, perhaps we have found a suitable role for him playing off HF.

[chef]

I like Dre's game today.

He made a few errors but it was good to see him move well and be constantly involved in the game. It looked like he didn't trust his own disposal at times but hopefully he can stay in the seniors for awhile to boost his confidence. He ended up with 5 score assists, perhaps we have found a suitable role for him playing off HF.

I liked his game too, but with Ward and Harbrow to return(possibly) next week he might find himself unlucky to miss out.

[Rocco Jones]

I liked his game too, but with Ward and Harbrow to return(possibly) next week he might find himself unlucky to miss out.

Yeah, it's any wonder he plays with no confidence (not having a go at you, just that Dre is judged more harsher than most and you're probably right that he will be the first one in the gun yet again).

I would have Jones out before Dre. Jones was OK today and I would have him as a traveling emergency next week. Harbrow for Jones. Ward wasn't setting the world on fire pre injury and I would send him back to Willy to gain some fitness and confidence.

[chef]

Yeah, it's any wonder he plays with no confidence (not having a go at you, just that Dre is judged more harsher than most).

I would have Jones out before Dre. Jones was OK today and I would have him as a traveling emergency next week. Harbrow for Jones. Ward wasn't setting the world on fire pre injury and I would send him back to Willy to gain some fitness and confidence.

I would have Jones out too, but this is where it gets tough as I would have Ward straight back in if he's right to go. Who else comes out? Maybe Moles be I liked his game better. The joys of having a deep list I guess and I'm not complaining:).

[Rocco Jones]

I would have Jones out too, but this is where it gets tough as I would have Ward straight back in if he's right to go. Who else comes out? Maybe Moles be I liked his game better. The joys of having a deep list I guess and I'm not complaining:).

Yep, certainly is tough.

I would have Moles ahead of Dre, Jones and Ward. His kicking (especially when going long) is a lot better than I thought it was. I like the look of us having more forward options and would avoid dropping both Jones and Dre.

[LostDoggy]

Dre just needs more game time to get his confidence up. Hard to get some real momentum being in for 1-2 games every 2-3 months

[jazzadogs]

Yep, certainly is tough.

I would have Moles ahead of Dre, Jones and Ward. His kicking (especially when going long) is a lot better than I thought it was. I like the look of us having more forward options and would avoid dropping both Jones and Dre.
Moles had some great passes into the forward 50 today, and has been pretty impressive over the last two weeks.

Ward at his best is easily in the 22, but I don't know how close he is to his best. A fair way off, judging by his form this year.

Everitt is definitely ahead of Jones, but they should be competing for different roles/positions. I would prefer Dre in the 22, assuming that they play him the same sort of way they did today. Floating across HF, bit on the wing, through the middle.

[Doc26]

I would be very disappointed to see Everitt not hold his place. He was good yesterday and showed what value he can offer. He is a very good option for us covering the flanks, providing a legitimate target for our defenders, particularly when under pressure, to clear the ball out to. Although different players with different roles he does offer more than what we have been getting out of Shaun all season.

On Shaun, the MC have shown considerable faith in him to come good. Shaun is just cruising and does not offer the work rate and intensity required at the level we need his role to be at over the next 8 weeks. If we are to persist with covering Johnno, which I endorse assuming his achilles / ankle are manageable, then we cannot also afford to do the same for Shaun.
Ward, Gia and Moles all offer superior rotational back up. Shaun needs a massive pre season IF his body permits him to do so. If his body and mind is right he is certainly in our best 22, and without doing the numbers probably in our best half, but I just can't see an about turn for the few remaining weeks of the season.

We go into the next 8 weeks carrying injuries and reputation at our peril.

[Sedat]

Thought there would be a little more love for Everitt after last night's game. I thought his intensity at the contest was outstanding all night, and it was great to see him clearly work hard to address his main weakness - 6 clearances and 11 contested possessions (out of 20 possessions in total) was a fantastic return from a player with question marks on his intensity.

[Mantis]

Thought there would be a little more love for Everitt after last night's game. I thought his intensity at the contest was outstanding all night, and it was great to see him clearly work hard to address his main weakness - 6 clearances and 11 contested possessions (out of 20 possessions in total) was a fantastic return from a player with question marks on his intensity.

Agree Sedat.

He has really put his best foot forward since his return. He still sits back and watches a little, but he seems to be making a conscious effort to get involved and to play with purpose and he certainly adds some flexibility to our line-up.

I hope he keeps his place and hope he can cement his place in the team as he could be a handy player come September.

[comrade]

His desire to tackle was noticeably better, including one absolute bone cruncher. I felt pretty comfortable whenever he was involved.

He'll find it hard to keep his spot with the quality coming back, but he's done his chances no harm and should be commended.

[Rocco Jones]

Thought there would be a little more love for Everitt after last night's game. I thought his intensity at the contest was outstanding all night, and it was great to see him clearly work hard to address his main weakness - 6 clearances and 11 contested possessions (out of 20 possessions in total) was a fantastic return from a player with question marks on his intensity.

Totally agree with all that Sedat, I was super impressed with him yesterday.

I know Eade has had issues with his intensity but I see him more having issues with confidence. He seems to have finally found something resembling a decent role for him around HF and I really believe we need to show some faith in him.

Granted, I am rate Dre a lot higher than most but I really think he has a bigger upside than a few others in and around the 22, could be a vital lift for the finals.

[bornadog]

His desire to tackle was noticeably better, including one absolute bone cruncher. I felt pretty comfortable whenever he was involved.

He'll find it hard to keep his spot with the quality coming back, but he's done his chances no harm and should be commended.

He must be instructed to play on at all costs. I thought he should have steadied and had a set shot for goal when he was within 40 metres. I loved that bone crushing tackle you mentioned Comrade.

[Rocco Jones]

His desire to tackle was noticeably better, including one absolute bone cruncher. I felt pretty comfortable whenever he was involved.

He'll find it hard to keep his spot with the quality coming back, but he's done his chances no harm and should be commended.

I think he should be in the best 22 but you are probably right as Eade doesn't seem a fan.

Eagle was great last night but his record in finals/big games is awful.

I rate Dre's upside higher than Moles and would prefer Dre in a final as I think we have something extra (apologies for sounding cliche).

Definitely ahead of Hill.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Agree with the above. Everitt's been pretty solid in the last two weeks and seems to be able to find space roaming across half forward. He can be a little slow to dispsoe of the ball at times, but I think he's jumped ahead of a few. Moles should be dropped and like Rocco said, Eagle's form in important games/finals is poor. He's also ahead of Jones - though I really liked what I saw yesterday in the young guy.

At a guess, for finals;

IN: Harbrow, Ward, Higgins
OUT: Moles, Eagleton, Jones

The Minson/Roughead situation is getting interesting. I was really impressed with Roughy and thought he competed exceptionally well. I suspect Minson will get his chance, but if he doesn't make the most of it - he'll be in trouble.

Everitt gives us something a little different than the rest. He can play forward as he's proven in the past two weeks, he can pinch hit in the ruck and can pinch hit down back. Coming into September, this is pretty important IMO. He just needs to hold his form - a good game against Geelong would almost cement his position.

[Go_Dogs]

Agree with the above.

x2

He was solid in a game that probably didn't suit his style of play, and turned in a promising performance. I hope he gets another couple of opportunities, because it looks like he isn't far off really nailing down the position and finding his feet.

His lead up work has been good, and his foot skills spotting up players inside 50 generally very good. If he can continue to match that with good contested and defensive efforts/work rate, he'll quickly become a very important player for us.

[robb]

Agree with the above. Everitt's been pretty solid in the last two weeks and seems to be able to find space roaming across half forward. He can be a little slow to dispsoe of the ball at times, but I think he's jumped ahead of a few. Moles should be dropped and like Rocco said, Eagle's form in important games/finals is poor. He's also ahead of Jones - though I really liked what I saw yesterday in the young guy.

At a guess, for finals;

IN: Harbrow, Ward, Higgins
OUT: Moles, Eagleton, Jones

The Minson/Roughead situation is getting interesting. I was really impressed with Roughy and thought he competed exceptionally well. I suspect Minson will get his chance, but if he doesn't make the most of it - he'll be in trouble.

Everitt gives us something a little different than the rest. He can play forward as he's proven in the past two weeks, he can pinch hit in the ruck and can pinch hit down back. Coming into September, this is pretty important IMO. He just needs to hold his form - a good game against Geelong would almost cement his position.

No Murphy?

[The Bulldogs Bite]

No Murphy?

Knew I had forgotten somebody.

Murphy would take Hill's spot.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Knew I had forgotten somebody.

Murphy would take Hill's spot.

Any of your three outs - Moles, Eagleton or Jones - would be miles ahead of Hill.

Everitt looks better than Moles but Moles has more substance (and a defined role). I can't see Ward getting fit enough to get back in.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Any of your three outs - Moles, Eagleton or Jones - would be miles ahead of Hill.

Everitt looks better than Moles but Moles has more substance (and a defined role). I can't see Ward getting fit enough to get back in.

Hill needs to play this week. No doubt he's miles off the pace at the moment, but a few solid performances could see him back in favour because he adds a different dimension to our forward structure.

Moles should only play if Ward doesn't. He doesn't get enough of the ball - especially in pressure games - and his disposal is extremely hit and miss.

I'd consider even playing Eagleton over Moles for that last spot - if Ward can't get fit enough.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Hill needs to play this week. No doubt he's miles off the pace at the moment, but a few solid performances could see him back in favour because he adds a different dimension to our forward structure.

Moles should only play if Ward doesn't. He doesn't get enough of the ball - especially in pressure games - and his disposal is extremely hit and miss.

I'd consider even playing Eagleton over Moles for that last spot - if Ward can't get fit enough.

I simply don't get the infatuation with Hill.

He got promoted under false pretences, he has been poor almost every week he's been at Willi, and was absolutely abysmal yesterday.

Moles was well ahead of Eagleton until yesterday but Eagle caught up plenty with his best performance in a long time. However, when it gets tough in a final and you have to win it yourself because there's no-one to give it to you, I'll back Moles in over Eagleton every time when it comes to putting your head over it and win the footy.

[LostDoggy]

The thread should be more about everitt shouldn't it? :P

[stefoid]

We definitely need our forwards fighting more to win the ground ball and keep the ball inside 50 as long as possible. That has been one of our weaknesses this season and it is one of Hills weaknesses as well.

Everitt has been pretty good in that area though, hasnt he?

If we are going to play all these big guys - Jones, Everitt, Grant and Hall, in the forward line at once, we need them to compete well at ground level and chase like demons when they dont get it.

Could we actually go into a finals series with 4 guys over 6ft tall? :eek:

(I still reckon Wood could have been tried as a forward earlier in the season, too late now. I reckon it would play to his strengths and minimised his weaknesses to a certain extent.)

[Mofra]

Moles was well ahead of Eagleton until yesterday but Eagle caught up plenty with his best performance in a long time. However, when it gets tough in a final and you have to win it yourself because there's no-one to give it to you, I'll back Moles in over Eagleton every time when it comes to putting your head over it and win the footy.
The condundrum is Eagle isn't as soft as perception suggests, and Moles can spray the ball under pressure. Will be difficult to pick one over the other.

[stefoid]

The condundrum is Eagle isn't as soft as perception suggests, and Moles can spray the ball under pressure. Will be difficult to pick one over the other.

Ego isnt soft at the contested ball, hes just inept, and his game drops off dramatically when he has to win and dispose of the ball under pressure.

But I agree in that Moles seems to be made out to be a contested ball monster when he isnt - he is adequate in that area.

If you gave a guarantee that Ego was going to be given license to run by himself like he was against Adelaide for a significant chunk of the game, then he would be first picked, but thats not going to happen, is it?

[Mofra]

If you gave a guarantee that Ego was going to be given license to run by himself like he was against Adelaide for a significant chunk of the game, then he would be first picked, but thats not going to happen, is it?
We still play the Swans at the SCG this year - a ground that is very un-Eagleton friendly.
His forte is gut-running and we still have few (if any) players who can match his running output.

[Go_Dogs]

We still play the Swans at the SCG this year - a ground that is very un-Eagleton friendly.
His forte is gut-running and we still have few (if any) players who can match his running output.

I tend to agree that the smaller grounds don't suit him as much.

If he plays with the intensity he showed on Sunday though, who knows.

I definitely feel against Geelong he's a good selection, as historically he's played OK against them, and they don't really have a very suitable match up for him. He'll also come into his own if we play at the MCG in September, and against a side like Collingwood that roll the dice a bit and run forward of the contest it certainly gives Eagle the opportunity to create some space and get dangerous.

Overall, it's a good problem to have. We just need to be sure the guys we pick for the last 4 or 5 spots in the 22 are going to put it all in, every week.

[LostDoggy]

Why I am reading about Eagle in the Everitt thread?