Playing List - 2008

[The Coon Dog]

I have a feeling that there will be significant changes to our list for next season. I have no inside information, just a 'gut feel'.

Clearly some players will be retained, others delisted & others who may be considered for trade (depending on what's on offer). I have no idea who's still contracted beyond this season, so that will obviously have some bearing on the club's decisions, but I'll base my assesments on the premise that all players are coming out of contract.

This is my view, not what I think the club will do, but if I were Rocket, what I'd do:

Retain:
Farren Ray, Robert Murphy, Daniel Cross, Matthew Boyd, Brad Johnson, Scott West, Mitch Hahn, Lindsay Gilbee, Tom Williams, Ryan Griffen, Adam Cooney Shaun Higgins, Jason Akermanis, Dylan Addison, Ryan Hargrave, Tim Walsh, Will Minson, Andrejs Everitt, Josh Hill, Andrew McDougall, Brennan Stack, Wayde Skipper, Steven Tiller, Brian Harris, Cameron White, Malcolm Lynch, Jarrod Harbrow, Gavin Hughes, Paul O'Shea.

Those that I really thought long & hard about were Farren Ray: I just think he has enormous upside. Ryan Hargrave: I could have almost squeezed him into the tradeable category as he has currency, but prefer him to remain. Tim Walsh: The poor bugger is due some luck, perhaps as a rookie (is possible). Andrew McDougall: I'll put his indifferent year down to a) acclimatisation & b) his lack of maturity.

Trade:
Nathan Eagleton, Peter Street, Daniel Giansiracusa, Sam Power, Jordan McMahon, Damien McCormack.

If there are no suitable trades then this group to remain on our list. Reasons for consideration are:

Nathan Eagleton: Still too left sided & continues to get found out, decision making at times is poor. Would accept the equivelant of a 24-36 pick.

Peter Street: Never really been a big wrap for him, gets run off & hurt on the scoreboard too easily by his direct opponents. Doesn't take enough marks & hit outs don't usually go to advantage. Pick 32-40

Daniel Giansiracusa: Perhaps this decision caused me the most angst. I love Gia, he's well respected by his team mates, so it would have to be something pretty special to make the call. He's someone who would be easier to cover than a few others, but I'd want a 'gun' for him.

Sam Power: Not too sure if Sam is going to get any better (perhaps maybe in a run with role ala Robert Harvey). As a first round pick we'd get nowhere near the same value. Maybe pick 46-60.

Jordan McMahon: I wouldn't like to trade Jordy. If it was purely a football decision, I'd retain him, but if he wanted to be back with his daughter in Adelaide & that was his primary reason then I'd trade. Probably needed more by Adelaide than Port, so maybe a 'very good' Crows player.

Damien McCormack: Not too sure how good his best is. Unlucky with injury & I'd prefer to give him another 12 months, but worth consideration if a suitable offer is put forward. Not too much currency.

Would be looking at a 'hard nut' who can get the ball from stoppages ie: Daniel Harris, Sam Mitchell, Nathan Foley, Nathan Jones type. A ruckman, someone such as David Hale or Cameron Wood. A marking forward such as a Jarrod Waite type & a tall defender like a Michael Firrito type.



Delist/Retire:
Chris Grant, Luke Darcy, Cam Faulkner, Travis Baird, Michael West, Matthew Robbins, Marty Pask, Brett Montgomery.

I just think Chris's body is struggling to cope, tho I'd love to see him go on, but not limp on.


Feel free to express thoughts. At least I know that I'm going to get a much better level of response on here, amongst you educated folk.

[Max469]

Well said TCD.

I agree with the trade bait.

Trade:
Nathan Eagleton, Peter Street, Daniel Giansiracusa, Sam Power, Jordan McMahon, Damien McCormack.

If there are no suitable trades then this group to remain on our list. Reasons for consideration are:

Nathan Eagleton: Still too left sided & continues to get found out, decision making at times is poor. Would accept the equivelant of a 24-36 pick. agree - need to get something decent as when he is on song he is unbeatable - but unfortunately not often enough

Peter Street: Never really been a big wrap for him, gets run off & hurt on the scoreboard too easily by his direct opponents. Doesn't take enough marks & hit outs don't usually go to advantage. Pick 32-40 never been a rap for Street - doesn't do enough of the good things - do you think there is a clone of Jeff White out there that we could have -----please

Daniel Giansiracusa: Perhaps this decision caused me the most angst. I love Gia, he's well respected by his team mates, so it would have to be something pretty special to make the call. He's someone who would be easier to cover than a few others, but I'd want a 'gun' for him. Love Gia - but something is missing this year - as TCD would need to be something special that would replace him

Sam Power: Not too sure if Sam is going to get any better (perhaps maybe in a run with role ala Robert Harvey). As a first round pick we'd get nowhere near the same value. Maybe pick 46-60. trade please - mid range

Jordan McMahon: I wouldn't like to trade Jordy. If it was purely football I'd retain him, but if he wanted to be back with his daughter in Adelaide & that was his primary reason then I'd trade. Probably needed more by Adelaide than Port, so maybe a 'very good' Crows player. He would probably be an absolute gun in Adelaide - where his heart is. Other than that reason - would not like to see him go

Damien McCormack: Not too sure how good his best is. Unlucky with injury & I'd prefer to give him another 12 months, but worth consideration if a suitable offer is put forward. Not too much currency. We stuck with Tommy Gun through injury and what a champ he will be unfortunately - don't think the DMc is in the same ilk.

Fully agree with the retainees: Although Farren Ray as much as I like him - will be on notice - as will a few others including Hargrave.

I love my Dogs with a passion and don't like to see any players go, but sometimes we need to make change to go ahead.

That time has come.

A few words about some of our Retirees:

Chris Grant Absolute champ - who owes us nothing but we owe him everything. The tears were falling tonight - knowing the end is here. God bless you Chris Grant. Another one we should have cloned.

Luke Darcy Cut in his prime with injury - tried valiantly to return - a master Ruck man in his day. Great team man - loved by all and will missed by all.

Such a shame would could not give these two awesome players the success they so rightly deserved.


Brett Montgomery I loved Monty the 1st time around and more so when he returned - who could forget his performance against Colling wood last year. Show the pups how to do it.

[GVGjr]

TCD, Max - Thats a huge turnaround of players if a couple of the trades get up.

Regarding the trade bait that you nominated:
Eagleton - He could not not demand anything more than a 3rd or 4th rounder in the market and in a shallow draft, the prospect of getting a 120 game player in return is unlikely.
He might be added as a sweetener to giving up the first round pick but thats the best option for us. Personally I would keep him because he is still a good enough player for us.
Street - Despite a poor season, the Darcy retirement probably makes him a more of a required player. Once again his best trade value might be as top up with our first round draft selection. I would trade him for a reasonable return but really what team will put their hand up for him.
Giansiracusa - You have to give up something to get something and Giansiracusa would have some admirers around the league. I believe that he is highly regarded bu the coaching staff but the fact is that he hasn't developed like he should have. I'd prefer keep him but like just about everyone else on the list at the moment, all decent offers would be considered.
Power - He might have some value for another team. Would consider offers but I don't mind having him around as a depth player and a summer spent developing him as a lock down player has some appeal.
McMahon - After a fantastic start to the season, he has slipped back a long way and at times is a liability on the field. At his best he should not be traded but if there is a reason why he needs to head home to SA then we should start talking to both SA teams.
McMahon has the most value in the market.
McCormack - Has no trade value and his future at the club might depend if he has another season left on his contract.
I'll add Faulkner to this list instead of the delistings group because he might have some limited appeal to the SA teams but I'd prefer to keep him. I understand that he isn't in the good books at the moment so he is on a tightrope at the moment.


The delistings/retirements:
Montgomery, Grant, Darcy, Robbins, Baird, Walsh, M.West and possibly Faulkner and McCormack would make for a considerable turnaround to the playing list.
We will lose significant size and experience from an already under performing playing list and while last nights effort has put this list under the microscope even further, I doubt there will be wholesale changes.
I would be reluctant to delist more than 7 players but of course a trade or two could help refresh this list even further.

[Go_Dogs]

I personally think we won't trade at all, perhaps unless for a key forward (Fev), or Messen could be on our radar too as a ruck/forward.

With a weaker draft, I think we'll only take the minimum number of picks this year. No point turning over 1/5 of the list of guys who have been in the system for a while and had bad years, or years not as good as we'd hoped they would, and replacing them with a bunch of unknowns who could take however long to come on, if they do.

I think if we draft well this year, and get a Brock Mclean, Nathan Jones, Shannon Hurn type of player with a bit of power who could play seniors in his first year comfortably, plus having a fit and healthy Griff, Hahn etc and we'll be alright.

I just want to know where our run has gone. Last year, we ran harder than most other teams, this year we haven't been able to at all.

[southerncross]

I really doubt that Fevola will be available at all. Why would a new coach going to Carlton cough up a match winner like that?

Unfortunately we will need to look at players that are somewhat on the fringes at their existing team because I doubt that there is another Akermanis lining up to come to us.
A mate of mine thinks there could be value in looking at Keppler Bradley as a tall defender and part time ruck back-up for Darcy. He also likes Henry Playfair as a crash and band CHF though. :confused:
Would someone like Troy Chaplin be a chance in a possible McMahon trade?

What players are there that we could possibly consider trading for at a reasonable price?

[Go_Dogs]

I doubt Port would trade Chaplin.

Do you guys honestly believe that trading away players for other clubs, 'second-tier' players will help us go forward?

[Mofra]

No way in hell are Eagleton, Gia & McCormack trade bait.

- Eagle is a senior player & we were exposed when his hard running was out of the side.
- Gia is in the leadership group & is well liked by the players. It would fracture the group in the way Wallace trading Wira started the animosity between him & Grant.
- D-Mac has 0 trade value & is one of the few guys on the list who looks a genuine dour BP type, albeit one with a 60m kick.

We will already have a number of spots fee: Monty, Darcy, Grant, Baird, Faulkner, Robbins & Walsh will go.
Pask & West will most likely not be rookied again next year. Hughes will get a rookie spot, Harbrow to be promoted.

That is 6 new places on the list, assuming Power either stays or is traded for a player in a straight swap.

[The Coon Dog]

No way in hell are Eagleton, Gia & McCormack trade bait.

- Eagle is a senior player & we were exposed when his hard running was out of the side.
- Gia is in the leadership group & is well liked by the players. It would fracture the group in the way Wallace trading Wira started the animosity between him & Grant.
- D-Mac has 0 trade value & is one of the few guys on the list who looks a genuine dour BP type, albeit one with a 60m kick.

We will already have a number of spots fee: Monty, Darcy, Grant, Baird, Faulkner, Robbins & Walsh will go.
Pask & West will most likely not be rookied again next year. Hughes will get a rookie spot, Harbrow to be promoted.

That is 6 new places on the list, assuming Power either stays or is traded for a player in a straight swap.

I think anyone can be considered for trade. All depends on what the other side is prepared to offer in return.

I accept what you say about Gia, hence my comment about it causing me the most angst, but if it meant a power forward or a quality ruckman, then we'd seriously have to consider it.

[Mofra]

I think anyone can be considered for trade. All depends on what the other side is prepared to offer in return.

I accept what you say about Gia, hence my comment about it causing me the most angst, but if it meant a power forward or a quality ruckman, then we'd seriously have to consider it.
Yes, everyone can be considered for a trade, however what a player's currency is will determine how hard we shop them around.

Of the players we'd offer to start with, we'd be talking Faulkner, Power, fringe players with little to no value.
Eagle wouldn't command much, and is far more valueable to the team than what another team would offer for him.

Gia did kick 4 prior to last night being injured early, and despite not being the sort of player we really need in terms of structure, is a fair way ahead of a number of the guys on our list.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I would think most players on our list would be expendable at the right price. I agree however that we really need to trade for needs as well as draft for needs.

Possible ruckmen; Hale? Charman?
Possible KP Forwards; Shulz? Miller?
Possible Inside Midfielders; ????????
Possible Medium/Tall Backline Players; Chaplin?

We're basically one good player short in every avenue. If you added a good ruckmen to our list, a good KPF, another good inside midfielder in the Foley/Jones mould and another good defender, we'd be one of the best sides going around.

I think we should look to trade for one or two of these areas. Perhaps a medium/tall backline player & an inside midfielder would be more realistic than attaining the services of a KPF or a Ruckmen, as they'd cost a fair bit.

[LostDoggy]

I doubt Port would trade Chaplin.

Do you guys honestly believe that trading away players for other clubs, 'second-tier' players will help us go forward?

Chaplin might be a chance if he is coming out of contract but you are probably right.
Regarding the trading or recruiting of second tier players - I think some teams do it better than others. Port have done wonderfully well with Rodan and Motlop so there is always players around that can fill a void. Overall though it tends not to work.

[LostDoggy]

Eagle is a senior player & we were exposed when his hard running was out of the side.

You mean like most of this year? 150 plus games at the club, I'd say his best is past him. The time to trade him was last season. Now he has little or no value considering his age.

[LostDoggy]

I wouldn't even offer McMahon as he was probably leading of B&F early on this season. Its clear he needs his head right and lacking other quality small defensive runners around him.

What we really need is more hard guys. If we aren't playing Minson or Hahn then we are as soft as butter.

[Dry Rot]

Any old nasty bastards like Chick about to get the flick from their club?

Could fill a hole while we recruit the young nasty bastards we need.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Lots of ideas here and there will be lots of speculation over the next two months. The list clearly has a lot of question marks over it and there are a lot of guys under the pump.

Coon Dog - I personally couldn't consider trading Hargraves - I think he has had a brilliant season particularly coming off no pre-season given the ankle reconstruction, and now that he is not being played on key forwards. Ideally I'd like to see him moved to a wing next year, where he could get more shots on goal, because his kicking has been incredible at times this year

Mofra makes a great point with respect to Eagle that his value to others is a lot less than it is to us. And that Gia is a part of the fabric of the team - I am confident there would be a market for Gia - I think a lot of clubs would be really pleased to add him to there fleet of runners. His has been a frustrating season, some of his best has been career best and has shown the increased hardness we;ve hoped for, but he has not been consistent, but nor has the team. Nonetheless I still see him as part of the post SWest midfield and a crucial player.

Miller (Melbourne) and Schultz (Richond) are really no different, nor significantly better than McDougall, I personally prefer to keep whatever draft pick we would give them to find a kid of our own.

Would Chaplain be available? Port are generally loathe to trade anyone who they think might then go on to any success, I cant remember anyone they've let go apart from Josh Carr that has had lots of footy left in them.

McMahon has clearly had a poor finish to the season - I see his value as higher than a fringe tall, I think he is of equivalent value to an Aker in a trade sense given his age and athleticism. I hope he stays and turns the corner with us.

I am still fundamentally of the belief that you create your own guns, and you do that through drafting and developing. I think the club needs to focus on those two key activities and make sure that guys like Harbrow, Williams, Tiller, Everitt and all the youngsters really improve enormously this summer. I know our form has been bad, but we still have a lot of talent, and if we can address some key areas I am confident we can rise quicker than people might expect.

[The Doctor]

My view to managing the list looks like this

Retirements;

Darcy, Grant, Montgomery

Delistings;

The players I don't think will make it at senior level

McCormack, Baird, Walsh

that is 6 already. So I won't be delisting any others.

Trade Bait;

Matthew Boyd - While he deservedly gets praised for his output this year in my mind is short on top class and we get hurt badly the other way by gun opposition midfielders. Will be at his trading peak this year and might help get us a very good player

Peter Street; Other clubs are looking for ruck and now might be an opportune time to get something back. In a shallow draft his value may be better than it normally would be.

Cameron Wight - Sorry folks I just don't rate him. But others do and possibly another club light on for tall defenders might offer something reasonable in a shallow draft.

Daniel Giansiracusa - Yep we all love him but how many slight bodies do we need. I know he tries hard and has leadership qualities yadayada.... Not as highly skilled as many think, lacks a bit of pace and too easily brushed off, goes to ground a lot. Would be a worth a bit right now but won't be for much longer.

Farren Ray - I'm a bit reluctant on this one as I think he hasn't reached anywhere near his peak but would trade if it meant getting a good big man.

Sam Power - Seems like we trade him off every year. Like some of the others his peak might be about now.

Players Like Eagle amd Robbins are well past their peak trade worth and I doubt we would get back anything that was close to his worth to us. So why bother. Other popular offerings such as Faulkner and Skipper would attract minimal interest and probably not worth it. Besides I still have hope for these 2 albeit fading hope.

So if we engineer 1 or 2 trades from the above lot that would give us 7-8 spots to fill. Harbow would be an auto upgrade from the rookie list. And 1 - 2 recruits from trades means 5-6 places to fill. That could earn a reprieve for someone like McCormack.

Targets

My number 1 trade target is Jared Brennan.

Why? I've always loved him regardless of what people say about him. His worth wouldn't be quite as high as Pavlich or Fevola but we would get a younger KP forward who could win us games. I would pay heavily for him. 1st round + something decent.

Other KP options are Pavlich and Fevola. I'm just not sure they are worth the trouble or the cost. Pavlich would just be awesome but can we afford without upsetting the salary balance.

Number 2 target is Cameron Wood.

Seems like I'm raiding the Lions but if we can't get Brennan I reckon here is a gun ruckman just waiting for a chance. I would put up our 1st rounder up for him.

Other possible targets

Charlie Gardiner from Geelong would come cheap and might benefit from a chance elsewhere and wouldn't cost too much.

Brad Miller as above although I'm not really sold on him. He might add a bit of depth to our defence.

Ryan Murphy from Freo has often been linked with us. I reckon he can play and would benefit from a move. Wouldn't give a 1st round for him nor Farren Ray. It would have to come from some other package which might make it difficult as I think he has another year.

[aker39]

Matthew Boyd - While he deservedly gets praised for his output this year in my mind is short on top class and we get hurt badly the other way by gun opposition midfielders. Will be at his trading peak this year and might help get us a very good player




I stopped reading after I read this.

If we had more players that were prepared to work anywhere near the level that Boydy works at, then we wouldn't be in our current predicament.

[Go_Dogs]

If we had more players that were prepared to work anywhere near the level that Boydy works at, then we wouldn't be in our current predicament.

Very true. When we have Cross back playing a more permanent role, plus next year Griffen, Hahn, Higgins etc all being able to play through the middle, Boydy can take on a more negating role again - which is where I think his best ability lies. He could easily be a tagger in the Kane Cornes mould, wins lots of his own ball and also shuts down an opposition gun player. He's certainly one I'd retain, he, Crossy and these types that work THAT hard are crucial like you say. He has laid many crucial, inspirational tackles, works hard and wins the ball. His disposal and speed let him down at times, but he has been our most consistent player this year, fairly comfortably.

I can also understand the Doctor's point to an extent, Boyd isn't as talented and damaging as say a Cooney or Griffen will potentially be at the same age, but whilst he'll never be a silky smooth, fast running, goal kicking midfielder, he's certainly worth his weight in gold. His place in the team is a very important one.

[Mantis]

I stopped reading after I read this.

If we had more players that were prepared to work anywhere near the level that Boydy works at, then we wouldn't be in our current predicament.


But our midfield is to alike.. Boyd, Cross and West are all one-pacers and have below average foot skills. They all battle there guts out, but this core group of mid-fielders will not allow us to become a very good side. We will only become this when the likes of Griffen, Cooney and Higgins become our core midfielders. So what do you do with West, Cross and Boyd then?? One has to go.

[LostDoggy]

I think Doc subscribes to realistic theory 'if you pay peanuts you get monkeys'
We are not going to get quality trades in if we don't give up top draft picks or quality players. With Clayton selecting, I'd prefer to keep our good draft picks.
Maybe we have got the most out of Matthew Boyd as we can? Eagleton of 2 years back was one we should have traded.

[southerncross]

So what do you do with West, Cross and Boyd then?? One has to go.

I know what you are saying but I don't agree that one has to go.
Players need to be rotated in the midfield and with Cooney, Gianisracusa and Akermanis and to a far lesser extent, Griffen and Higgins we do have a few options.
Everyone is available for the right offer but it would need to be a good one for us to part with Boyd.

[aker39]

But our midfield is to alike.. Boyd, Cross and West are all one-pacers and have below average foot skills. They all battle there guts out, but this core group of mid-fielders will not allow us to become a very good side. We will only become this when the likes of Griffen, Cooney and Higgins become our core midfielders. So what do you do with West, Cross and Boyd then?? One has to go.

How long do you think Westy will play for.

[Mantis]

How long do you think Westy will play for.

I think he has re-signed for 08, but has intentions to play for atleast one more season after that. If we are to keep the players I mentioned I would be making 08 Westy's last.

I understand we need to have many different options in the midfield, but West Coast are the team they are because there main midfield group is Judd, Kerr and Cousins, they are elite players and we need Cooney, Griffen and possibly Higgins to get to this level.

sc,

I would not be giving away Boyd for anything less than quality. If he was to be traded I would be looking for a straight swap for a ruckman or key forward who would be rated in the top 50 or so players in the competition. Nothing less.

[The Doctor]

I stopped reading after I read this.

If we had more players that were prepared to work anywhere near the level that Boydy works at, then we wouldn't be in our current predicament.


If Freo demanded our 1st pick and a good midfielder like Boyd in a deal involving Pavlich you wouldn't consider it?

you only trade players like him if you are going to get something decent in return, you don't trade him for Brad Miller. You also have to make sure you have enough depth around you to cover the loss of what you give away. Boyd can be covered in midfield by Cooney, Griffen, Cross, Higgins, Ray et al along with defensive orientated players like Addison coming through, you can also toss in Murphy, Gia, Gilbee McMahon. THere are plenty of options. We can't say this about our big men stocks.

[DOG GOD]

doc...im interested in cameron wood as well for a possible trade. what would u honestly think we would have to cough up 4 him, and the chances of bris looking at that trade?

[Dry Rot]

Swans did well picking up Bolton and Richards - any of these calibre of players floating around on the fringes of a club? Would Freo's Murphy be a similar candidate?

[GVGjr]

If Freo demanded our 1st pick and a good midfielder like Boyd in a deal involving Pavlich you wouldn't consider it?

you only trade players like him if you are going to get something decent in return, you don't trade him for Brad Miller. You also have to make sure you have enough depth around you to cover the loss of what you give away. Boyd can be covered in midfield by Cooney, Griffen, Cross, Higgins, Ray et al along with defensive orientated players like Addison coming through, you can also toss in Murphy, Gia, Gilbee McMahon. THere are plenty of options. We can't say this about our big men stocks.


Agreed. I know it's hard for people to fathom how we could possiblly trade a player like Boyd especially if he was to win the clubs best and fairest this year but for the right offer you would have to consider it.
I'm not as blunt as Mantis with the view of clearing out one of the West, Cross and Boyd trio but there is some value in exploring it. FWIW, with West closer to retiring than the others I'm reluctant to move either Boyd or Cross because both of them also add a lot of value to their team mates both on and off the field.

Would anyone consider moving Minson on? I know we are not flush for rucks and in fact we are poor in that area but he might have some currency and could probably be replaced by a Wood or a Meesen.

[aker39]

Agreed. I know it's hard for people to fathom how we could possiblly trade a player like Boyd especially if he was to win the clubs best and fairest this year but for the right offer you would have to consider it.



Can you please tell me the last player to be traded in the same year as winning his clubs B&F.

[DOG GOD]

we definately need a quality ruckman.

I still think will at 22 has still alot to offer. Just needs to get fitter and be able to take overhead marks.

Never seen meesen play, but i have liked the look of wood in the games i have seen, although i cant see lions giving him up, with mcdonald likely to retire and charman and leuneberger? up and coming.

[Mantis]

Agreed. I know it's hard for people to fathom how we could possiblly trade a player like Boyd especially if he was to win the clubs best and fairest this year but for the right offer you would have to consider it.
I'm not as blunt as Mantis with the view of clearing out one of the West, Cross and Boyd trio but there is some value in exploring it. FWIW, with West closer to retiring than the others I'm reluctant to move either Boyd or Cross because both of them also add a lot of value to their team mates both on and off the field.

Would anyone consider moving Minson on? I know we are not flush for rucks and in fact we are poor in that area but he might have some currency and could probably be replaced by a Wood or a Meesen.

I don't think its a matter of being blunt it's being realistic, we have been hammered all year in the midfield and something has to change in there. I agree we need a good quality ruckman, but our midfield soldiers needs to be re-vamped. The trio of West, Cross and Boyd as our core midfield group will not give us the drive and flair thats required to make us a very good side. We are not like Sydney and Geelong (bar a couple) who do not need midfield brilliance as they have a team of hard workers. We rely on skill and run, West, Croos and Boyd give us the hard running, not pace , but not the skill we require.

If I was being blunt I would ask West to retire come season's end. That's pretty blunt, but realistically it will not happen so we need to look at alternatives, trading Boyd is one, there are many other's.

[The Doctor]

doc...im interested in cameron wood as well for a possible trade. what would u honestly think we would have to cough up 4 him, and the chances of bris looking at that trade?

It might depend on if he is coming off contract. Not sure what his position is. It might help us if he were out of contract coz the Tigers would make a play for him. It would then be up to us to convince him to come to us like we did wth Aker. THen we have bargaining power.

If we can't get a quality KP using our 1st pick (probably number 5-7) I would offer that pick.

If our 1st pick is used elsewhere or declared off limits we would have to send a good player I would suspect. I would doubt Brisbane would want 2nd round picks but you never know. If I were Brisbane I would want a high pick or good player.

[DOG GOD]

thanks for that insight doc...much appreciated. Woul be interested to see if brisbane would be interested with say pick 7 for wood.

regarding brennan who u mentioned, i would only give a 3rd rounder for him.

normally when trades are mentioned the name callum urch comes up. Has he gone off the radar now?

[Sockeye Salmon]

If I was being blunt I would ask West to retire come season's end.

I assume you are talking about Michael West?

Or did you mean to post this tripe on BigFooty but slipped?


You would want our best midfielder (still) to retire prematurely? FFS!

[The Doctor]

If we got Brennan for a 3rd round pick I would personally fly to Brisbane to give Leigh Matthews a kiss on the lips.

Urch is probably in much the same boat as Cam Faulkner is with us. Might be worth a look if delisted at the back end of the draft or pre season draft perhaps.

[The Coon Dog]

Can you please tell me the last player to be traded in the same year as winning his clubs B&F.



Peter Bell won the Kangas B&F in 2000. He was traded to Freo at the end of that season & coincidently won Freo's B&F in 2001.

[Mantis]

I assume you are talking about Michael West?

Or did you mean to post this tripe on BigFooty but slipped?


You would want our best midfielder (still) to retire prematurely? FFS!

No I meant what I said. Why isn't it an option? Our midfield at present is very poor. I have said this enough times now, but our 3 core midfielders in West, Cross and Boyd are too alike for my liking. They all are rather poor kicks, can only play in the midfield, are not overly quick, and do not, in general pick up an opponent. They work hard, no doubt, but as a whole they do not hurt the opposition with there possessions. Have a look at Saturday, they collectively had close to 100 possessions and we got slaughtered. Something has to change.

The sooner we change the midfield mix the better. I believe we will not be a good side while West is running around in the midfield with Cross and Boyd. West has been a great player for the club and he might not be the right one to go after, but we can't continue to persist with the same players as we are now. You may not agree with my thoughts, but you must agree that we must change some personnel.

[Dry Rot]

If we can't get a quality KP using our 1st pick (probably number 5-7) I would offer that pick.



What do you think are our chances are of getting a quality KP at pick 5-7?

Any names/profiles you'd suggest?

[The Doctor]

What do you think are our chances are of getting a quality KP at pick 5-7?

Any names/profiles you'd suggest?


Already mentioned Brennan as the one I would go in hard for.

Aside from Pav and Fev I'm not sure who else is on the market. But if it isn't top shelf I would keep the pick. A lot of clubs will offer KP'S to us for that pick but I doubt they would be worth the trade. The suggestion on BF of getting Schulz from Richmond using our 1st pick is not one I like.

[DOG GOD]

unless we can use our first pick to get pav :) im not interested in using it on anyone else AT THIS STAGE!!

[LostDoggy]

But our midfield is to alike.. Boyd, Cross and West are all one-pacers and have below average foot skills. They all battle there guts out, but this core group of mid-fielders will not allow us to become a very good side. We will only become this when the likes of Griffen, Cooney and Higgins become our core midfielders. So what do you do with West, Cross and Boyd then?? One has to go.

I'm not worried if they are all alike and I don't think we need to get rid of one of them. All of them are good players and I wouldn't be in a hurry to get rid of them. Really we will never keep players that are coming out of contract or get them to 200 games if we have this notion that the club will toss them aside once the hit a certain age or show the slightest sign of stalling. Surely they just need to be rotated through the midfield more or in the case of Boyd, a role as a negating half back flanker or winger once we can get some level of consistency out of Cooney. We have been getting smashed in the midfield this year because Cooney hasn't measured up like he should have and the early efforts of putting Griffen there failed big time. Higgins has no defensive side of his game either and until he addresses that his time in the pivot should be kept to the bare minimum. Gia has had an occassional go but it has been few and far between and Akermanis hasn't been the spark plug that we thought we would get. I don't see why you would point the finger at just Cross, West and Boyd when the other guys have been far from impressive.
If we can get a good insider midfielder in the draft who isn't fleet of foot nor a racking kicking but he will be an ideal replacement for Scott West in a season or two then I think we should still consider him. I fully understand that we just can't build a list around cloned players but those guys are not the problem. The coach needs to get more for the support act not just West, Boyd and Cross.

[LostDoggy]

unless we can use our first pick to get pav :) im not interested in using it on anyone else AT THIS STAGE!!
I keep reading Pav to the Dogs. If he ever leaves WA he will head home to SA not here.

[The Coon Dog]

I keep reading Pav to the Dogs. If he ever leaves WA he will head home to SA not here.

I don't think people realisticly mean Pav per se, just someone of that quality.

[Dry Rot]

Already mentioned Brennan as the one I would go in hard for.

Aside from Pav and Fev I'm not sure who else is on the market. But if it isn't top shelf I would keep the pick. A lot of clubs will offer KP'S to us for that pick but I doubt they would be worth the trade. The suggestion on BF of getting Schulz from Richmond using our 1st pick is not one I like.

Sorry i wasn't clear - i meant if we keep that pick, then what are our chances of drafting a good quality KP youngster at pick 5-7?

[LostDoggy]

we have already gone down this road (trading) last season when we went looking for key position players in andrew mcdougall and marty pask and look what happened, so i think we will keep our early draft choices unless somebody like fevola pops up!

[LostDoggy]

we have already gone down this road (trading) last season when we went looking for key position players in andrew mcdougall and marty pask and look what happened, so i think we will keep our early draft choices unless somebody like fevola pops up!
Pask wasn't traded for and McDougall cost us bugger all.
I agree that we shoudl keep early picks but Fev is no messiah.

[Go_Dogs]

once we can get some level of consistency out of Cooney. We have been getting smashed in the midfield this year because Cooney hasn't measured up like he should have and the early efforts of putting Griffen there failed big time.

Adam has had his best, and most consistent season for mine. He hasn't blown many games completely apart, but his efforts have been much improved. He's kicking goals, winning contested ball, clearances, tackling hard etc. Griffen was struggling with injury early, so that's also not an accurate snapshot of where he's at either. He'll be our best midfielder within 2 years, comfortably I think.

Ideally I think both Griffen and Cooney are apart of our best centre square combination.

[Twodogs]

Personally I'd throw the farm at Travis Cloke on the proviso that his dad stays on the other side of the Maribyrnong at all times.

[Mantis]

Personally I'd throw the farm at Travis Cloke on the proviso that his dad stays on the other side of the Maribyrnong at all times.

The Pies had to draft two dud Cloke's to attract Travis. They would be asking for the earth to give up a 20y.o CHF who has shown he will be a very good player for 10 or so years. We would be required to sell our soul to get him.

[Twodogs]

The Pies had to draft two dud Cloke's to attract Travis. They would be asking for the earth to give up a 20y.o CHF who has shown he will be a very good player for 10 or so years. We would be required to sell our soul to get him.




He's that good.

[Mantis]

He's that good.

Im not in disagreeance on his ability, I just think he is unattainable.

[Twodogs]

Im not in disagreeance on his ability, I just think he is unattainable.



You're probably right but you have to pay a lot to get a really good young player with as much improvement in him as Cloke. We're better off biting the bullet to try for a really good player than stuffing around with cast offs.

[westdog54]

You're probably right but you have to pay a lot to get a really good young player with as much improvement in him as Cloke. We're better off biting the bullet to try for a really good player than stuffing around with cast offs.

A lot has been made of Collingwood's slow, ageing midfield, as well as the impending retirement of Nathan Buckley.

It may seem like a long shot, and I hear what Mantis is saying, in that he would be regarded as near untouchable, however I think that with picks thrown in, we may have someone Collingwood may be interested in.

The three that come to mind right away are McMahon, Power, and Giansiracusa.

I know I might get howled down for saying that, but I think that Twodogs is onto something here.

[Mantis]

A lot has been made of Collingwood's slow, ageing midfield, as well as the impending retirement of Nathan Buckley.

It may seem like a long shot, and I hear what Mantis is saying, in that he would be regarded as near untouchable, however I think that with picks thrown in, we may have someone Collingwood may be interested in.

The three that come to mind right away are McMahon, Power, and Giansiracusa.

I know I might get howled down for saying that, but I think that Twodogs is onto something here.


I reckon we could offer Griffen or Cooney for Cloke maybe even both and Collingwood would tell us to go jump. Good key forwards as we are starting to realise are worth there weight in gold. You can build your team around a good one.

To say that we could swap the 3 players mentioned for Cloke is stretching it. Cloke is not far off from being the AA CHF at 20, the 3 you mentioned are probably not even in our best 12 players this year. To get quality you must offer up quality and the players you mentioned are far from this on this years form.

[The Doctor]

Sorry i wasn't clear - i meant if we keep that pick, then what are our chances of drafting a good quality KP youngster at pick 5-7?


pretty good

but you can't really expect them to make any serious kind of impact in their 1st season, possibly two. It is an exceptional player that can do that. I've only seen 1 at the Bulldogs the past 20 years, Chris Grant.

[Dry Rot]

pretty good

but you can't really expect them to make any serious kind of impact in their 1st season, possibly two. It is an exceptional player that can do that. I've only seen 1 at the Bulldogs the past 20 years, Chris Grant.

I know it will take time, but I'd rather have a good crack in 2010 than half arsed attempts in the next two years with retreads.

Any KPP draftees taken your fancy we could get?

[Sockeye Salmon]

My try...

Retire: Montgomery, Grant, Darcy, Robbins
Delist: Faulkner, Baird, M. West
Elevate: Harbrow, Hughes
Vets list: S. West, Johnson

Trades: McMahon to Adelaide for Meeson and pick 25ish - only if McMahon wants to go home. They can have Faulkner and our 4th round pick if it helps.

Pick 7ish - Lachlan Henderson
Pick 24ish - Callam Ward
Pick 25ish - Tom Bellchambers or any other ruckman that Clayton likes
Pick 42ish - speculative KP forward

[Mantis]

My try...

Retire: Montgomery, Grant, Darcy, Robbins
Delist: Faulkner, Baird, M. West
Elevate: Harbrow, Hughes
Vets list: S. West, Johnson

Trades: McMahon to Adelaide for Meeson and pick 25ish - only if McMahon wants to go home. They can have Faulkner and our 4th round pick if it helps.

Pick 7ish - Lachlan Henderson
Pick 24ish - Callam Ward
Pick 25ish - Tom Bellchambers or any other ruckman that Clayton likes
Pick 42ish - speculative KP forward

Henderson although a good long term proposition will not solve the immediate problem of not having a good tall forward. How would you go about fixing this?

I am also interested in your thoughts on keeping all of Wight, Minson, Street and Skipper on the list. At best I believe we should only be keeping 3 of these on our list (I would look to move on atleast 1 of the last 2 mentioned)

[Go_Dogs]

My try...

Retire: Montgomery, Grant, Darcy, Robbins
Delist: Faulkner, Baird, M. West
Elevate: Harbrow, Hughes
Vets list: S. West, Johnson

Trades: McMahon to Adelaide for Meeson and pick 25ish - only if McMahon wants to go home. They can have Faulkner and our 4th round pick if it helps.

Pick 7ish - Lachlan Henderson
Pick 24ish - Callam Ward
Pick 25ish - Tom Bellchambers or any other ruckman that Clayton likes
Pick 42ish - speculative KP forward

I think you have it pretty spot on as far as who we may move on, elevate etc. If we do trade for a player, I'd like it to be a young, developing player like Meesen so I'm happy with that. (Although if McMahon leaves I'd need to change my screen name - and I too am more than happy to keep him if he's happy to stay).

Henderson is more of a forward than a ruck right? What about Callam Ward - what type is he?

[Mantis]

I will put up or shut up...

De-list: Faulkner, Baird, McCormack, (M.West-rookie)
Retire: Montgomery, Grant, Darcy, Robbins
Promote: Harbrow

Borderline de-listing: Street, Skipper, Walsh, Eagleton
On the trade table: Borderline group, McMahon, Boyd, Power, Giansiracusa, (Harris??)

Reasoning:

Don't jump down my throats with the Harris call, he has improved a lot this year and has become a very good player for us. The only way I would look at this trade is the following reason:

1. If we can attract an A-grade ruckman or KPP forward, thats it.

I am only putting him up in the hope that Williams, McDougall, Wight, Everitt and long term O'Shea can fill the key position roles in defence for us. If that occurs we can either move Harris forward or trade for someone we know can, perhaps Fevola??

Happy to take questions on any of this.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Henderson is more of a forward than a ruck right? What about Callam Ward - what type is he?

In all honesty, I really know nothing about Henderson other than he's about the only key forward rated in this draft and looks like going in the 5-8 range. He's about 196cm so not really a ruck.

Callam Ward is mjp's love child. About 6 ft inside mid.

mjp could tell you anything you want to know about him and probably plenty you don't.

[GVGjr]

Henderson is more of a forward than a ruck right? What about Callam Ward - what type is he?

Henderson is a forward who can do a bit of ruck work in the forward line. He is a solid contested mark as well.

Ward is 183cm defender/midfielder. Moves well and wins the ball.

[GVGjr]

Would Morris be a possible trade candidate? For mine he is still a good player but has probably peaked as a footballer. With Harris, Hargrave, Williams, Griffen, McMahon, and Gilbee as the likely preferred defenders at the start of the 2008 season, Morris as an extra defender might be able to be covered by Addison, Everitt or even McDougall.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Would Morris be a possible trade candidate? For mine he is still a good player but has probably peaked as a footballer. With Harris, Hargrave, Williams, Griffen, McMahon, and Gilbee as the likely preferred defenders at the start of the 2008 season, Morris as an extra defender might be able to be covered by Addison, Everitt or even McDougall.

You'd want to be pretty sure Addison could play a lock down role.

[Mantis]

Would Morris be a possible trade candidate? For mine he is still a good player but has probably peaked as a footballer. With Harris, Hargrave, Williams, Griffen, McMahon, and Gilbee as the likely preferred defenders at the start of the 2008 season, Morris as an extra defender might be able to be covered by Addison, Everitt or even McDougall.

Personally not a chance in hell. Morris for me is really the only defender that we have who I have confidence in that he can beat his direct opponent. From your list I would prefer to see Hargrave moved to a wing as he is only just iffy as a defender, but can provide good run and marking from the wing.

[The Doctor]

Trade Morris, no way.

Why would you offer your best shut down man?

[aker39]

Trade Morris, no way.

Why would you offer your best shut down man?



Yet you're prepared to trade Boyd, who will probably win our B&F this year.

[Dry Rot]

Over on BF, there's a lot of talking about us getting Fev.

Aside from the asking price, why the hell would the new Blues coach get rid of his spearhead?

I don't get it.

[Mantis]

Yet you're prepared to trade Boyd, who will probably win our B&F this year.

I'll answer that because I also have put Boyd up for trade. Our midfield needs a massive re-vamp, the group assembled at present does not get the job done. The clearance work, given that the ruck issue doesn't help, is poor at best. We need a personnel change big time and Boyd is one player that is expendable. We also need to introduce some defensive minded players to the midfield group, Boyd has played this shut down role to success on a couple of ocassions, but seems to be going the way of Cross who is now pretty much only an offensive player.

Boyd has real market value, he is a hard working midfielder who would walk into most teams midfield in a heart beat, but can he improve our midfield, I would answer probably not. He is also out of contract and would be expecting a healthy pay increase after 2 very consistent seasons. Can we afford to pay him what he deserves? Maybe, but it is money we are probably better off spending elsewhere.

[Mantis]

Over on BF, there's a lot of talking about us getting Fev.

Aside from the asking price, why the hell would the new Blues coach get rid of his spearhead?

I don't get it.


If I was appointed Carlton I would be trading him in a heart beat.

Carlton are probably at best 3 or 4 years away from being a good side. I would be hoping that I could build a forwardline out of Waite, Kennedy and Fisher in the meantime who are all long term prospects. Fevola sets a poor example for the young blokes and would be almost finished by the time Carlton have re-built such that they are a contender again.

If I was the Carlton coach I would be trading Fev for the best possible draft picks available or for a ruckman/ key defender under the age of 22 who had shown enough to suggest that they would be very good AFL players.

[GVGjr]

You'd want to be pretty sure Addison could play a lock down role.

Once again I suppose it comes down to the fact that just about everyone is tradeable for the right offer. I don't think I would trade him or the other two that have been mentioned in Harris or Boyd either but Morris hasn't had a great season but still has plenty of currency.
We do have a some additional options with defenders at the moment although Morris is a different style of player.

Has he actually been as effective this year than the previous two?

[westdog54]

Carlton are probably at best 3 or 4 years away from being a good side. I would be hoping that I could build a forwardline out of Waite, Kennedy and Fisher in the meantime who are all long term prospects. Fevola sets a poor example for the young blokes and would be almost finished by the time Carlton have re-built such that they are a contender again.


With all due respect that bit in bold is nonsense. He's far from the only player who likes to take issues with umpiring. Glen Archer has been doing it all his career, at least Fevola doesn't bag them out in the press. And before you get started on his attitude, on gameday he's one of the most committed key forwards going around, one of the few who's willing to chase, lay a tackle or a shepherd. He thinks nothing of running 80 metres to tackle a bloke who he's given a 15-20 metre head start.

[LostDoggy]

With all due respect that bit in bold is nonsense. He's far from the only player who likes to take issues with umpiring. Glen Archer has been doing it all his career, at least Fevola doesn't bag them out in the press. And before you get started on his attitude, on gameday he's one of the most committed key forwards going around, one of the few who's willing to chase, lay a tackle or a shepherd. He thinks nothing of running 80 metres to tackle a bloke who he's given a 15-20 metre head start.

Archer is usually right while Fev is usually being an idiot. I've never seen Archer give away consecutive 50s, visible bag team mates on the ground or give up the ball in while still in play to argue with umps.

Not even talking about Fev's off field stuff.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Over on BF, there's a lot of talking about us getting Fev.

Aside from the asking price, why the hell would the new Blues coach get rid of his spearhead?

I don't get it.

He won't.

6 weeks ago I thought Fev was going for sure, after listening to him on Monday night I'd say there's next to no chance of him leaving Carlton.

Mantis is right, though (only about Fev, not about Westie).

If Ratten had any goolies he'd offload Fev and stock up on some seriously talented young kids hawthorn style - but he won't, the ferals wouldn't allow it.

[Dry Rot]

He won't.

6 weeks ago I thought Fev was going for sure, after listening to him on Monday night I'd say there's next to no chance of him leaving Carlton.

Mantis is right, though (only about Fev, not about Westie).

If Ratten had any goolies he'd offload Fev and stock up on some seriously talented young kids hawthorn style - but he won't, the ferals wouldn't allow it.

That's what I thought.

Mantis is quite logical, but I suspect that the pressure will be on the new Blues coach from day one.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I'll answer that because I also have put Boyd up for trade. Our midfield needs a massive re-vamp, the group assembled at present does not get the job done. The clearance work, given that the ruck issue doesn't help, is poor at best. We need a personnel change big time and Boyd is one player that is expendable. We also need to introduce some defensive minded players to the midfield group, Boyd has played this shut down role to success on a couple of ocassions, but seems to be going the way of Cross who is now pretty much only an offensive player.

Boyd has real market value, he is a hard working midfielder who would walk into most teams midfield in a heart beat, but can he improve our midfield, I would answer probably not. He is also out of contract and would be expecting a healthy pay increase after 2 very consistent seasons. Can we afford to pay him what he deserves? Maybe, but it is money we are probably better off spending elsewhere.

I agree the midfield certainly needs revamping, but Boyd is a player IMO we can't afford to lose - particularly with West probably only being able to play another year of football. I'm not sure of the stats currently, but I'm certain I read Boyd was our best player regarding clearances a month or 6 weeks ago. Whilst Boyd has turned into a more attacking player, he's still capable of playing that lockdown role to great effect. I think it's a bonus to us as a footy club t have a player like that. He has stepped up in the loss of Cross & West this year, I think he's really really proved his weight in gold.

If West was 4 years younger & Hahn injury free, maybe you'd have a better case to argue. But that's not the case. West is almost finished, Cross is in our Top 5, Hahn is pivotal but not exactly reliable. Our midfield struggles to get the ball, apply defensive pressure and make sticking tackles. This is an area in which is Boyd's strong suit.

We need more of Boyd's type. The fact that he has turned into an attacking player is partly because we haven't had anyone to actually WIN the ball themselves this year. Our midfield has been well, well down. West has had an average year and lately struck down by injury whilst Cross has missed half the season. Cooney, Gia, Eagleton, Griffen etc. haven't been nearly as good as they need to be. So again; why trade away Boyd? The players that are expendable are those that we have plenty of. The McMahon, Gia, Ray types. Trading Boyd would be pointless; we'd simply be creating a BIGGER hole in the side, especially once Cross is left to do it all himself.

[The Doctor]

Yet you're prepared to trade Boyd, who will probably win our B&F this year.

Got nothing to do with it. They are completely different players.

[Mantis]

I agree the midfield certainly needs revamping, but Boyd is a player IMO we can't afford to lose - particularly with West probably only being able to play another year of football. I'm not sure of the stats currently, but I'm certain I read Boyd was our best player regarding clearances a month or 6 weeks ago. Whilst Boyd has turned into a more attacking player, he's still capable of playing that lockdown role to great effect. I think it's a bonus to us as a footy club t have a player like that. He has stepped up in the loss of Cross & West this year, I think he's really really proved his weight in gold.

If West was 4 years younger & Hahn injury free, maybe you'd have a better case to argue. But that's not the case. West is almost finished, Cross is in our Top 5, Hahn is pivotal but not exactly reliable. Our midfield struggles to get the ball, apply defensive pressure and make sticking tackles. This is an area in which is Boyd's strong suit.

We need more of Boyd's type. The fact that he has turned into an attacking player is partly because we haven't had anyone to actually WIN the ball themselves this year. Our midfield has been well, well down. West has had an average year and lately struck down by injury whilst Cross has missed half the season. Cooney, Gia, Eagleton, Griffen etc. haven't been nearly as good as they need to be. So again; why trade away Boyd? The players that are expendable are those that we have plenty of. The McMahon, Gia, Ray types. Trading Boyd would be pointless; we'd simply be creating a BIGGER hole in the side, especially once Cross is left to do it all himself.


Ok I may be off the mark a little with the Boyd trade, but I think it is worth looking at. If we do trade him it would only be for a ruckman or key forward who are highly rated and would make an immediate impact. The improvement in our midfield will come from the introduction and improvement of players such as Griffen, Cooney, Higgins, Addison over the coming years. We know what we will get from Boyd, Cross and West and there output probably wont change, but is that enough??

From the players you mentioned I would be keeping Ray, I think he has improved greatly over the past 6 weeks. His has taken giant strides in his ability to run hard all game and compete in one on one contests. I think he is a keeper. From the others both Eagleton and Gia are definitely expendable. Eagleton has lost a bit of endurance and is more so than ever just an offensive player, I can see him being overtaken by a player like Harbrow shortly. Gia doesn't have the endurance or pace to play in the midfield. He is a very competent small forward as witnessed against St.Kilda, but can we allow him to play solely as a small forward?? McMahon is a difficult one, he was fantastic early this season, but has struck some personal issues which are obviously playing with his head. If he wants to leave we must respect his decision, but I personally wouldn't proactively looking to trade him.

[Go_Dogs]

Once again I suppose it comes down to the fact that just about everyone is tradeable for the right offer. I don't think I would trade him or the other two that have been mentioned in Harris or Boyd either but Morris hasn't had a great season but still has plenty of currency.
We do have a some additional options with defenders at the moment although Morris is a different style of player.

Has he actually been as effective this year than the previous two?

I don't think Morris has been quite near as good this season as his previous two. He's still been reasonably reliable and done some big jobs, but hasn't had the consistency and been beating down all comers this season. He had a bit of an interrupted pre-season though didn't he, which I'm sure for someone like Dale, who relies on speed, fitness etc probably effected his season quite a bit.

I think he's still a must keep player. He could potentially play the lockdown midfield role or the defensive stopper role. True there may be more options coming through down back, but that's good and what we want, competition for peoples places. Boyd and Harris are non-tradeables too.

[GVGjr]

Morris had an injured arm from memory so it shouldn't have impacted his fitness etc. I also don't think he can transition into the midfield. He's a very good negating defender though but I'd question if the club can extract another level out of him.

[Go_Dogs]

Ah OK.,, well an injured arm shouldn't have affected him much at all. You don't think he's shown enough as a midfield tagger to possibly play a role there? Obviously he's never going to be a huge ball winner or the best kick in the side, but I've liked him on the few occasions he's played a run with role further up the ground. You always know that Dale will stick to his task and do his best to win.

As far as extracting another level out of him, that is yet to be seen. But players like Dale, Boydy, Cross etc who work harder than most have a habit of finding another level where one was thought not to exist.

[Dry Rot]

What should we do with our fist and second picks? These should be around the 4-7 mark and 24-28 mark.

Unless someone of Fev's quality comes up IMHO we should hold onto our first pick, ditch this "best available" crap and get the best tall forward left. No trading for Schultz etc

I wouldn't mind trying to get Meesen or similar trade with our second round pick.

Swans have regularly blown good picks for ruckmen - hasn't hurt them it seems.

Of course, if McMahon wants to return to SA, it opens up a few possibilities, including 3 way deals.

[westdog54]

Archer is usually right while Fev is usually being an idiot. I've never seen Archer give away consecutive 50s, visible bag team mates on the ground or give up the ball in while still in play to argue with umps.

Not even talking about Fev's off field stuff.

I've never seen Fevola turn around to an umpire who's accidentally collided with him and abuse the crap out of him.

I've never heard Fevola say in the media that the Brownlow is irrelevant because its voted on by the umpires.

The umpires don't pay 50s against Archer because he's Mr Nice Guy off the field. He does plenty to warrant it yet gets away with murder.

[Sockeye Salmon]

What should we do with our fist and second picks? These should be around the 4-7 mark and 24-28 mark.

Unless someone of Fev's quality comes up IMHO we should hold onto our first pick, ditch this "best available" crap and get the best tall forward left.

While I agree with your concept, it might not be that easy.

From what I can gather - and I'm admitting I know bugger all first-hand - other than Lachie Henderson of Geelong there doesn't appear to be any key forwards that look like they might go around the 4-15 mark.

Dave Gourdis of WA looked good to me (I've only seen him once v SA) but I've barely heard him mentioned by anyone.

Might it be we will end up with another high pick and no key forward to spend it on? Again.

If we hear reliably that Henderson will go top 3-4 we might look at trading our first rounder or at least let ourselves be traded down.

[LostDoggy]

I've never seen Fevola turn around to an umpire who's accidentally collided with him and abuse the crap out of him.

I've never heard Fevola say in the media that the Brownlow is irrelevant because its voted on by the umpires.

The umpires don't pay 50s against Archer because he's Mr Nice Guy off the field. He does plenty to warrant it yet gets away with murder.
Regarding the Archer ump bump incident, the ump deserves to be given a spray for getting in his way. Fev sprays at umps are usually for not getting an iffy free like a lot of players do but not many do it while the ball is still in play.

Archer is also right about the Brownlow, Just need to look at examples of Woewodin and Wilson's brownlows.

You are comparing Archer's on field performance with Fevolas?
One is a leader while the other is an idiot.

[Dry Rot]

While I agree with your concept, it might not be that easy.

From what I can gather - and I'm admitting I know bugger all first-hand - other than Lachie Henderson of Geelong there doesn't appear to be any key forwards that look like they might go around the 4-15 mark.

Dave Gourdis of WA looked good to me (I've only seen him once v SA) but I've barely heard him mentioned by anyone.

Might it be we will end up with another high pick and no key forward to spend it on? Again.

If we hear reliably that Henderson will go top 3-4 we might look at trading our first rounder or at least let ourselves be traded down.

It's quite possible (probable?) we'll lose our last three games. If the Dons, Freo and the Blues win one more game each, we'll have pick 4.

If we can't get that tall forward, then I hope we get the hardest inside mid in the draft.

If we get another Farren Ray @ pick 4 I'll spew.

[Sockeye Salmon]

It's quite possible (probable?) we'll lose our last three games. If the Dons, Freo and the Blues win one more game each, we'll have pick 4.

If we can't get that tall forward, then I hope we get the hardest inside mid in the draft.

If we get another Farren Ray @ pick 4 I'll spew.

Kruizer looks a cert to go 1.
Crotchin 2 or 3

Masten, Palmer, Ebert and Morton would be in the mix as well.

Morton is 192cm but plays like an outside midfielder (tore it up the day I saw him). The other three would be considered inside players (rider - I've seen them all once!). Masten is a dwarf.

Clayton does have form for thinking out of the square.

[The Doctor]

Kruizer looks a cert to go 1.
Crotchin 2 or 3

Ebert and Morton would be in the mix as well.



My gut tells me it will be one of these 2, Ebert is the one I think Clayton would like most

[Go_Dogs]

I wouldn't mind trying to get Meesen or similar trade with our second round pick.

I'm getting keener and keener to go for Meesen. We need a young ruck badly, and Meesen can also go forward. Still needs to do a lot of work, but could be a good fit for us.

[mjp]

My gut tells me it will be one of these 2, Ebert is the one I think Clayton would like most

You dont think Clayton would be all over Gaertner, Doc?

In response to an earlier question about what sort of player Callan Ward is, he is one of the very, very GOOD kind.

[Go_Dogs]

In response to an earlier question about what sort of player Callan Ward is, he is one of the very, very GOOD kind.

How good? Who would you compare him too? Why would he be a good fit for us?

As far as Gaertner, reading his profile he sure seems a likely type that Clayton could go for. Ebert is one that I wouldn't be too disappointed with either if we couldn't get a KP.

[mjp]

How good? Who would you compare him too? Why would he be a good fit for us?

As far as Gaertner, reading his profile he sure seems a likely type that Clayton could go for. Ebert is one that I wouldn't be too disappointed with either if we couldn't get a KP.

Ward would be good for us because he is a good player. He can play back, forward or midfield. Is an outstanding mark for his size (took 18 marks one day against the Geelong Falcons playing as a HBF) and doesn't panic in traffic. Comparisons - no idea really. I guess I think he is a bit like Bartram from Melbourne, but that is generalising.

I haven't really seen Ebert - one game in the rain at Princess Park doesn't count, so I cant comment. I think Gaertner is pretty good, and not as much of a project as some people seem to think...but they know a lot more than me I think.

[The Doctor]

You dont think Clayton would be all over Gaertner, Doc?



Quite possibly, he doesn't necessarily follow popular opinion does he? It might come down to which pick we ultimately get.

[Mantis]

Some good articles in the Herald Sun today, here are the links:

http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/footy/common/story_page/0,8033,22258586%255E19742,00.html

http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/footy/common/story_page/0,8033,22258592%255E19742,00.html

Much along the lines of the discussions in this thread. Looks like Eade will be proactive in the trade period to gain a 'power' forward and in the pre-season to add some bulk to the playing list. Interesting times ahead.

[aker39]

I'm getting keener and keener to go for Meesen. We need a young ruck badly, and Meesen can also go forward. Still needs to do a lot of work, but could be a good fit for us.


Why is there such a big interest in trading for Meesen.

How many games of AFL football has he played?

[GVGjr]

Why is there such a big interest in trading for Meesen.

How many games of AFL football has he played?

Not many. I suppose the interest is around that we need a young ruckman, he's a Victorian and he might be looking for a move back home given his opportunities in SA are limited.

[GVGjr]

As far as Gaertner, reading his profile he sure seems a likely type that Clayton could go for. Ebert is one that I wouldn't be too disappointed with either if we couldn't get a KP.

Gaetner is an exciting prospect. He has size, skill and terrific athletic ability. At the moment however, he doesn't play like he is 196cm

[Bulldog Revolution]

Not many. I suppose the interest is around that we need a young ruckman, he's a Victorian and he might be looking for a move back home given his opportunities in SA are limited.

Hes been selected in the squad to play us, so he may make his debut

Id prefer we got Jonathan Griffin but I suspect they would be unlikely to let go of him

[Sockeye Salmon]

Why is there such a big interest in trading for Meesen.

How many games of AFL football has he played?

This week will be his first.

The interest in him is because:

* He's a Victorian who wants to come home
* He's a ruckman and we need one.
* The Crows have Hudson, Biglands, Maric, Griffen and Tippett so they'll probably be prepared to trade him.
* He went pick 8 in Ryan Griffen's draft.

It will come down to how much competition there is for him and how much you'd have to give up to get him. On performance you would think very little, but trading is for the future, not the past.

[Go_Dogs]

Yes, he seems to be getting his chance to impress against us this week, not named for Norwood which is a good sign that he will play for the Crows. He's been close the last few weeks - the pleasing aspect is that all of the Crows young rucks who have broken through for a game, have impressed - Griffen, Maric. If Meesen can put on a reasonably solid performance, I think a few clubs will take notice.

He's good below his knees, can take a mark, kick a goal and has played some good SANFL football. As with all young rucks they take time, and I don't see any reason why he couldn't potentially fill a #1 ruck role.

Interestingly enough, Hugh Minson will now carry the #1 ruck role at Norwood this week, and he's another that I think we could potentially be looking at.

Wonder if Clayton and a few of the recruiting staff are coming down this weekend (do they do that sort of thing?), would be a good opportunity for them to check out a few possible trade targets as well as Ebert, Greenwood and a few others.

[aker39]

So we are keen to trade for a player who has not played a single game of AFL, has played well at SANFL level (so does Keiran McGuiness) and has POTENTIAL to fill the #1 ruck role.

I won't be holding my breath

[Go_Dogs]

He most likely would've played quite a few games this year if it wasn't for his injury just prior to the season, and then the subsequent emergence of young Griffen. He's only just turned 21, and as a big man, I'd have much more faith in him having more upside and further development than McGuiness ever had. He's a year younger and a bit taller than Minson, and seems more adaptable in that he can go forward. Let's see how he goes on Sunday.

[aker39]

Let's see how he goes on Sunday.


Hopefully not very well.

[Bulldog Revolution]

So we are keen to trade for a player who has not played a single game of AFL, has played well at SANFL level (so does Keiran McGuiness) and has POTENTIAL to fill the #1 ruck role.

I won't be holding my breath

Its all options and the price has to be right, but with Darcy going and question marks over Street, Minson and Skipper - and where they fit into the long term plans its natural

I just am not sure there is a power forward out there available at a price we would be happy with - I dont want to repeat the tradng of picks for mediocre talls or players (Koops, Morgan etc)

[aker39]

I dont want to repeat the tradng of picks for mediocre talls or players (Koops, Morgan etc)


Yet people are happy to talk up a trade for a player who at this stage hasn't even played a senior game.

[The Doctor]

Yet people are happy to talk up a trade for a player who at this stage hasn't even played a senior game.


What do you suggest we do?

[aker39]

What do you suggest we do?


Take our medicine, swallow our pride, and draft a ruckman in this year's draft.

I know it will take a few years (although if they are as good as Leuenberger, it may be quicker)

Who that player is, I don't know, that's why we pay recruiting managers $100's of $1,000's of dollars.


But don't bother trading for a player who has been in the system for 3 or 4 years and hasn't managed a senior game (injuries aside).

[westdog54]

I had a thought last night, although it was at 1am so I'm not sure how viable it will be so I'm open to criticism on this one.

Has the combination of:


The Development of Williams and Everitt
McDougall's Shift to defence
Skipper's recent return to form
O'Shea's development as a long term defender, and
Hargrave's good form this year

Put Wight up as a viable trade option?

There would be some that would say that he doesn't have the trade currency to warrant looking at it, but can anyone think of a club who is looking for a tall, mobile defender who can pinch-hit in the ruck?

Lets also not forget the prospect of a three-way trade in this scenario.

Edit: In saying this I'm not saying I want Cam traded, I'm a big fan of his, but the club needs to go forward, and if we have to let go of some good players to get where we need to be, so be it

[Mantis]

I had a thought last night, although it was at 1am so I'm not sure how viable it will be so I'm open to criticism on this one.

Has the combination of:


The Development of Williams and Everitt
McDougall's Shift to defence
Skipper's recent return to form
O'Shea's development as a long term defender, and
Hargrave's good form this year

Put Wight up as a viable trade option?

There would be some that would say that he doesn't have the trade currency to warrant looking at it, but can anyone think of a club who is looking for a tall, mobile defender who can pinch-hit in the ruck?

Lets also not forget the prospect of a three-way trade in this scenario.

Edit: In saying this I'm not saying I want Cam traded, I'm a big fan of his, but the club needs to go forward, and if we have to let go of some good players to get where we need to be, so be it

Possibly, but wouldn't it be of our benefit to try and bulk Cam up a little so that he can be a viable option for us in the ruck?? A position we have no real strength in.

He has excellent mobility for a guy of his size, has a pretty good leap and is reasonably skilled. The only thing I believe stopping Cam from being a pretty good ruckman is strength. He gets thrown around by the physically stronger ruckmen in the comp. By putting 4 or 5 kgs on his frame I would think that we would have a pretty good ruckman on our hands.

[westdog54]

Possibly, but wouldn't it be of our benefit to try and bulk Cam up a little so that he can be a viable option for us in the ruck?? A position we have no real strength in.

He has excellent mobility for a guy of his size, has a pretty good leap and is reasonably skilled. The only thing I believe stopping Cam from being a pretty good ruckman is strength. He gets thrown around by the physically stronger ruckmen in the comp. By putting 4 or 5 kgs on his frame I would think that we would have a pretty good ruckman on our hands.

Another 4 or 5 kgs would definitely making him what I would consider an ideal size. The point I'm trying to make is that Cam might be a good example of a player we may need to consider trading in order to get in the players we need.

FWIW I also considered Hargrave in the trade equation if we were to be chasing a real 'marquee' player. Hypothetically if we were to be chasing Fevola or Pavlich (Pavlich won't come to Victoria, its looking increasingly as though Fevola will stay at Carlton IMO) would Hargrave be the sort of player we may have to offer up?

Again, not wanting to trade Shaggy, he's one of my favourite players at the club, but tough calls must be made.

[Sockeye Salmon]

The only thing about throwing names up as if they were objects on Ebay is how do you then go to Griff and play the loyalty card when you want him to re-sign.

I have no problem trading a Shane Birss for the good of his career and if Jordy wants to go back to Adelaide to be close to his kid, that's OK too, but I don't like trading someone who wants to stay (unless they're in the delisting gun anyway).

[Mantis]

At the minute we have too many outside running (not all fast) on our list and not enough quality tall forwards or rucks. So how do we even up the balance? Do we trade away some of the excess running players for what we require or do we simply de-list the under-performing talls/ rucks and acquire some new ones via the usual process. ie. through the draft. I suppose that's the million dollar question.

I think it is the opinion of the recruiting/ coaching staff that we will do a bit of both this year. I would be hoping to trade away some of the running types for a developing ruckman or key forward and use our first couple of draft picks for the same types.

I don't really think we can go down the same path of just hoping we can develop from within our list. We have got ourselves into this mess and need to find a way to get ourselves out of it, and quickly so that we move up the ladder and contend for a flag in the not to distant future.

[westdog54]

The only thing about throwing names up as if they were objects on Ebay is how do you then go to Griff and play the loyalty card when you want him to re-sign.

I have no problem trading a Shane Birss for the good of his career and if Jordy wants to go back to Adelaide to be close to his kid, that's OK too, but I don't like trading someone who wants to stay (unless they're in the delisting gun anyway).

Very fair point. I regard trading a player who wants to stay at the club as an absolute last resort, and as I said, I regard both players I named very highly.

I suppose my question revolved around where Cam Wight has fallen to in the pecking order in the 'tall, mobile defender' category.

[GVGjr]

Very fair point. I regard trading a player who wants to stay at the club as an absolute last resort, and as I said, I regard both players I named very highly.

I suppose my question revolved around where Cam Wight has fallen to in the pecking order in the 'tall, mobile defender' category.


I think you are in some ways right about him. He's a good enough player but doesn't fill a specific role. He can play as a tall defender but he is behind a few others and he can do a bit of ruck work but he is behind a few others there as well. Perhaps he needs to be tried as a tall forward.

[The Doctor]

Take our medicine, swallow our pride, and draft a ruckman in this year's draft.

I know it will take a few years (although if they are as good as Leuenberger, it may be quicker)



so if we draft a ruckman this year and, as you say, it takes a few years how does that enhance our premiership prospects in the meantime?

[aker39]

so if we draft a ruckman this year and, as you say, it takes a few years how does that enhance our premiership prospects in the meantime?


We can trade a player like GIA. The media love, talk about his "great" skill level and how he's a good kick on goal.

If others club believe any of that, than will get a good trade for him.

[Twodogs]

The only thing about throwing names up as if they were objects on Ebay is how do you then go to Griff and play the loyalty card when you want him to re-sign.





You could sell it. Does he want to play with his mates or does he want success for the footy club?

[westdog54]

We can trade a player like GIA. The media love, talk about his "great" skill level and how he's a good kick on goal.

If others club believe any of that, than will get a good trade for him.

Who do you want for Gia?

[G-Mo77]

I really don't think there will be to many changes at the seasons end. Obvious ones on the cutting or trading block are Baird, Faulkner, McCormack, Robbins (Possibly retiring), Walsh. Even out of that list I think McCormack and Walsh are safe. They could even Rookie Walsh. Then throw in the retiring players, Montgomery, Darcy and possibly Grant.

So the way I see it

OUT: Baird, Robbins, Faulkner, Montgomery, Darcy, Grant?, Walsh? (Rookie)

That is 6 or 7 spots on the list depending on what happens with Grant and Walsh, 2 spots will more than likely be taken up by the elevation of Harbrow and Hughes so 4 spots left, 4 picks in the draft. The draft is apparently pretty weak so having 4 or 5 selections in this years draft may not be a priority like it was last season.

I really can't see us making any huge waves come trade time, the likely targets are probably going to stay put so it will probably be recycled options or nothing at all. If we do trade I doubt we would have to give up much for unwanted players.

[mjp]

The draft is apparently pretty weak so having 4 or 5 selections in this years draft may not be a priority like it was last season.


Dont believe everything you read.

[LostDoggy]

I really don't think there will be to many changes at the seasons end. Obvious ones on the cutting or trading block are Baird, Faulkner, McCormack, Robbins (Possibly retiring), Walsh. Even out of that list I think McCormack and Walsh are safe. They could even Rookie Walsh. Then throw in the retiring players, Montgomery, Darcy and possibly Grant.

So the way I see it

OUT: Baird, Robbins, Faulkner, Montgomery, Darcy, Grant?, Walsh? (Rookie)

That is 6 or 7 spots on the list depending on what happens with Grant and Walsh, 2 spots will more than likely be taken up by the elevation of Harbrow and Hughes so 4 spots left, 4 picks in the draft. The draft is apparently pretty weak so having 4 or 5 selections in this years draft may not be a priority like it was last season.



I think the outs you have nominated make sense. Someone like McCormack could be added to that as well.
I'm not sure that we will elevate anyone from the rookie list other than Harbrow.

[Dry Rot]

Dont believe everything you read.

It's looking highly likely we'll have Pick 4 or 5. Hopefully we can get a quality KPP at that pick?

[LostDoggy]

Dont believe everything you read.

Just like last year(or year before) was suppose to be a super draft?

[mjp]

Quality KPP or Ruckman? Well, who knows. I very much doubt we would get one who would help us before 2009 (at best) rolled around.

I dont really believe in the whole 'super-draft' or 'dud draft' theory. If you go back in history, there are good kids every single year...it is just that some years they are not as obvious. Maybe they are hidden on bad underage team, maybe struggled with injury, maybe been played out of position etc etc. The draft when Murphy went number one was supposedly a 'weak' draft, but the likes of Dale Thomas, Xavier Ellis, Pendlebury etc all went high...and a few others (like Bertram to Melbourne) a lot later. Often the super-draft refers to the top few picks (Hodge, Ball, Judd) - but remember, West Coast took Sampey at 6 or so, Freo took Pollack at 4...none of those really worked out.

The recruiters have to earn their money is all.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Quality KPP or Ruckman? Well, who knows. I very much doubt we would get one who would help us before 2009 (at best) rolled around.

I dont really believe in the whole 'super-draft' or 'dud draft' theory. If you go back in history, there are good kids every single year...it is just that some years they are not as obvious. Maybe they are hidden on bad underage team, maybe struggled with injury, maybe been played out of position etc etc. The draft when Murphy went number one was supposedly a 'weak' draft, but the likes of Dale Thomas, Xavier Ellis, Pendlebury etc all went high...and a few others (like Bertram to Melbourne) a lot later. Often the super-draft refers to the top few picks (Hodge, Ball, Judd) - but remember, West Coast took Sampey at 6 or so, Freo took Pollack at 4...none of those really worked out.

The recruiters have to earn their money is all.

I agree MJP - when you go through the years there is always plenty of talent, its just the ability to identify and select it at the right spots in the draft compared to competitors that makes the difference.

I dont know enough about the talent in this years draft but surely if we get a pick between 4-8 it will produce a very good player, as would our second round pick. Whilst it is unrealistic to expect a key position to be there and perhaps contribute you just dont know, and you can be surprised by the progress of kids if you get good ones. Examples of late round key position players have been Melbournes Mathew Newton and Port Adelaides Justin Westhoff. Westhoff came on quickly whilst Newton needed a few years in the VFL

[Go_Dogs]

Westhoff was already 20 and had been playing SANFL for a few years when he was drafted though - it's not like he's an 18y.o kid.

[westdog54]

I agree MJP - when you go through the years there is always plenty of talent, its just the ability to identify and select it at the right spots in the draft compared to competitors that makes the difference.

I dont know enough about the talent in this years draft but surely if we get a pick between 4-8 it will produce a very good player, as would our second round pick. Whilst it is unrealistic to expect a key position to be there and perhaps contribute you just dont know, and you can be surprised by the progress of kids if you get good ones. Examples of late round key position players have been Melbournes Mathew Newton and Port Adelaides Justin Westhoff. Westhoff came on quickly whilst Newton needed a few years in the VFL

Have players like Judd, Hodge, Reiwoldt, Murphy, Cooney etc, who have been absolute guns virtually from day 1, heightend our general expectations of draftees and the speed of their deveolpment. I think Reiwoldt is the prime example, he was a ready made KPP who was virtually at the top of his game within a couple of years.

[bornadog]

I think Walsh will be given one more year. He has shown potential when he hasn't had terrible luck with injury. A broken leg, broken finger, Knee Reco and resulting Hammy problems have not helped, but at 196cm and 93kg, and only 22 years old, why would we delist at big bloke like that and when we have plenty retiring and not good enough now that will leave space for recruiting.

McCormack may be an unlucky one that could be part of a trade, as we have a few players his size.

[Bulldog Revolution]

I think Walsh will be given one more year. He has shown potential when he hasn't had terrible luck with injury. A broken leg, broken finger, Knee Reco and resulting Hammy problems have not helped, but at 196cm and 93kg, and only 22 years old, why would we delist at big bloke like that and when we have plenty retiring and not good enough now that will leave space for recruiting.



Does keeping Walsh mean Skipper is gone?

[DOG GOD]

McCormack may be an unlucky one that could be part of a trade, as we have a few players his size.

personally i cant see anyone being interested in Dmac for a trade...Im sure he will be delisted.

retired:Grant, Darcy, Monty, Robbins?
Delisted: McCorm, Faulkner (i hope not), and Walsh (rookie him)

that would leave 7 spots on the list

Harbrow to be elevated leaves 6.

use the 5 picks in the draft and either one in the preseason draft or keep Cam on the list.

[Sockeye Salmon]

personally i cant see anyone being interested in Dmac for a trade...Im sure he will be delisted.

retired:Grant, Darcy, Monty, Robbins?
Delisted: McCorm, Faulkner (i hope not), and Walsh (rookie him)

that would leave 7 spots on the list

Harbrow to be elevated leaves 6.

use the 5 picks in the draft and either one in the preseason draft or keep Cam on the list.

I can't see the point in keeping Walsh this year only to delist him unless his attitude to rehab has been less than it should have been. There was no way he was going to do anything this year coming off a big knee so he should have either been delisted last year or kept for another year.

I agree on McCormack. I'd rather keep Faulkner unless his attitude was not up to scratch either. It depends on whether they want 4 or 5 picks I suppose, or whether they want to elevate Hughes.

[DOG GOD]

I can't see the point in keeping Walsh this year only to delist him unless his attitude to rehab has been less than it should have been. There was no way he was going to do anything this year coming off a big knee so he should have either been delisted last year or kept for another year.

yeah ur probably right there sockeye...if thats the case then i would say that...

Grant
Darcy
Monty
Robbins
Dmac
Faulkner would all be gone

Harbrow elevated

5 picks in the draft.

Unless we trade some picks for a player or 2.

[Sockeye Salmon]

yeah ur probably right there sockeye...if thats the case then i would say that...

Grant
Darcy
Monty
Robbins
Dmac
Faulkner would all be gone

Harbrow elevated

5 picks in the draft.

Unless we trade some picks for a player or 2.

Baird maybe?

[DOG GOD]

Baird maybe?

oh for sure..new i had forgotten someone...

now i make it:
Grant
Darcy
Monty
Robbins (all retired)

Dmac
Baird
Faulkner (unforunately)

Harbrow elevated..leaves 6 spots on list
Walsh to be gven ONE year contract.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Whilst I am no fan of McCormack, in fact I'm probably a critic more than anything, I doubt they'll get rid of him. He's young, been on the list for about 3 years? And this year has been hampered by injuries. IMO he'll get another year, as he's capable of playing BP and has a bit of body size about him, something we lack. There's a few that will be chopped before him. Darcy's retired, Robbins seems a fair possibility now, Grant?

Baird & Faulkner would seem certainties also.

[westdog54]

oh for sure..new i had forgotten someone...

now i make it:
Grant
Darcy
Monty
Robbins (all retired)

Dmac
Baird
Faulkner (unforunately)

Harbrow elevated..leaves 6 spots on list
Walsh to be gven ONE year contract.

Do we want to take 6 picks into the draft though?

Would we be using a pick in the PSD perhaps.

I know that changes have to be made but I'm not sure if our list isdeep enough to take 6 draftees in this year.

Having said that Grant is still no certainty to pull the pin.

[Bulldog Revolution]

I know that changes have to be made but I'm not sure if our list isdeep enough to take 6 draftees in this year.

Having said that Grant is still no certainty to pull the pin.

It seems like Eade does not believe in the depth of our list as it is currently made up, otherwise Tiller, Lynch and Hill would not have debuted. Time appears to be up for Faulkner. Baird has to be under enormous pressure given an unsettled and unproductive year. Hard to know whether they will persist with Walsh. DMac would also be under pressure and Skippers value might still be further scrutinised.

[4GIVME]

i think hughes has a great chance to be on the doggies senior list. maybe pask who knows.

[LostDoggy]

Retain:
Farren Ray, Robert Murphy, Daniel Cross, Matthew Boyd, Brad Johnson, Scott West, Mitch Hahn, Lindsay Gilbee, Tom Williams, Ryan Griffen, Adam Cooney Shaun Higgins, Jason Akermanis, Dylan Addison, Ryan Hargrave, Tim Walsh, Will Minson, Andrejs Everitt, Josh Hill, Andrew McDougall, Brennan Stack, Wayde Skipper, Steven Tiller, Brian Harris, Cameron White, Malcolm Lynch, Jarrod Harbrow, Gavin Hughes, Paul O'Shea.

I think you're missing someone in the middle there TCD!


My guess for next year's list is that Grant will play on, with Monty, Robbins and Darcy obviously retiring, and Walsh (although I don't really agree with it), Faulkner, Baird and maybe even McCormack getting delisted. I'd hate to see someone like Gia or Ray traded away, especially with Gia being so crucial in the goal assists area, his kicking/passing has been very good this year, but I think that trading McMahon might be beneficial for both Jordy and the team, if that's what he wanted. Also, I highly doubt M West will be retained on the rookie list and Harbrow should/will be elevated.

[bornadog]

Welcome dales.girl38, took you awhile to find us.

[westdog54]

I think you're missing someone in the middle there TCD!


Hmmm, 34, 35, 36, 37, 39, 40, wonder who she's talking about?

Must be that slow bloke who Fevola always kicks a bag on!;)

Good to have you onboard Dales.Girl.