Game Day 2011 - R10 Western Bulldogs vs Hawthorn

[BulldogBelle]

This is the discussion thread for our Sunday twilight game against Hawthorn at ES.

My predictions are:

The Dogs by 3 points
BOG : Daniel Giansiracusa
Barry Hall to kick the first goal.

[AndrewP6]

I soooo want to tip us, but I can't see us gettting close in this one. Still, I'll give my "Heart" tips

Dogs by 1
BOG Barry Hall
First goal Bazza

[boydogs]

Dogs by 34
First Goal Hall
BOG Boyd

[comrade]

I don't normally do this but..

Hawks by 42
BOG (for us): Dale Morris
1st Goal: Mitch Wallis

I think we can stay with them for 3 quarters and then our inexperience will show out. I'm looking for solid performances from our younger guys, with the likes of Boyd, Higgins and Gia really leading the way. If this happens and we still go down, so be it.

[Hotdog60]

I don't normally do this but..

Hawks by 42
BOG (for us): Dale Morris
1st Goal: Mitch Wallis

I think we can stay with them for 3 quarters and then our inexperience will show out. I'm looking for solid performances from our younger guys, with the likes of Boyd, Higgins and Gia really leading the way. If this happens and we still go down, so be it.

We'll have to see how they go, 8 players under 50 games and 7 of them under 20 games with Ward the one who hasn't played 50 games yet. A lot of inexperience but if the endeavor is there and the senior group can stand up you never know.
I hope for a win, 16 points.
Hall first goal from a Libba clearance and Morris BOG.

[LostDoggy]

Hawks by 66
BOG: Franklin
First goal: Franklin

[DOG GOD]

Hawks by 42
BOG: Hodge
First goal: Franklin

[LostDoggy]

Dogs by 2 points
First goal Lake
Bog Lake

[Greystache]

Hawks by 65
BOG- Griffen
First Goal- Franklin

[LostDoggy]

Can we pull a big one out for a milestone gamer? I'm hoping so......

Dogs by 3 points
BOG = Boyd
First Goal = Gia

[EasternWest]

Dogs, 25
BOG Boyd
First Goal Libba

[SonofScray]

Hawks by 42
BOG: Hodge
First goal: Franklin

Ditto.

I think there is still enough talent that as a fan you can go into the game expecting to be in amongst it for a fair chunk of the time but the application has been so sporadic I can't see us beating the the Hawks.

Will be disappointed if I see so many players flat footed like last week. Hopefully the complete dominance of the lads physically by West Coast has stirred a bit of emotion for them and they come out really committed to throwing their bodies in at the contest, then going again and using the ball well.

[LostDoggy]

Hawks by 47
BOG: Boyd
First goal: Franklin and to kick 8.5 for the game.

[LostDoggy]

The match can go one of two ways.
We can come out and make a statement, or we can capitulate. Again.
Hoping we give it a red hot go..
But I think the Hawks will be too strong.

Hawks by 32
BOG Hodge
First Goal Gia

[Bumper Bulldogs]

In a statement to the footy world today,

Dogs by a hard fought 14 points
BOG - Lake
First Goal - Gilbee

[1eyedog]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ NOT IN YOUR wildest dream team. But I personally reckon you're pretty spot on with the margin.

[Flamethrower]

Bulldogs by 45 points

1st goal: Barry Hall

BOG: Tom Liberatore

[Pickenitup]

Dogs by 7 points
1st Goal Murphy
BOG CALLAN WARD (Who by the way and got rid of the Locks)

[G-Mo77]

Hawthorn by 48 points

For us

BOG: Brad Boyd :)
First Goal: Gia

[LostDoggy]

Hawthorne by 83 (will get to triple figures until dogs bring it back in garbage time)
BOG: Roughead, (Libba BOG for Dogs)
First Goal: Higgins

[LostDoggy]

Ill go with the Optimistic side

Dogs by 7pts
First Goal Gia
BOG Boyd

[Go_Dogs]

Dogs by 8 points
First goal to Hall
BOG Boyd

I'm thinking we match up OK on the Hawks, and if we can break even in the midfield we should be able to give a good account of ourselves.

[LostDoggy]

Griffen first goal, Williams at FF

.

[LostDoggy]

Come on Dogs! Have a real crack and back yourselves.
I am sick and tired of so called supporters jumping on and off when it suits them.
We played badly last week and are not playing well. I will be supporting you no matter what.

[LostDoggy]

Gia snaps our second after a period of Hawthorn possession

Howard working hard

.

[JohnGentStand]

We just arent getting the footy.
If we can control the footy we can win this.
And Hodge needs an opponent!

[comrade]

Their foot skills are cutting us up. We're trying to guard space and they continue to hit up 20-30m kicks until they can pass into the forward 50.

[comrade]

I thought Mitchell would have a field day today and he has started well.

A good start for Howard in his first game.

[JohnGentStand]

Qtr time and it's 44 marks to 10 !
This cannot continue if we want to make a game of it!
C'mon pups ....

[LostDoggy]

Bateman Subbed off injured

.

[The Pie Man]

How important is this 2nd quarter? Last 25 mins weren't good

[LostDoggy]

Williams scores to get us back on track

.

[LostDoggy]

BBB might get Subbed off , starting to limp , on the bench now getting assessed

.

[comrade]

Hall looks cooked. We're a rabble moving forward and we're just handing the ball back.

[Ghost Dog]

3 posessions so far for LAke and Barry ..

[ledge]

We have no forward line but I love the kids efforts, Howard especially.

[MrMahatma]

Hall and Lake not giving much. Howard looking ok. We're on the ropes though.

[comrade]

It's like keepings off.

[JohnGentStand]

1/2 time & we need to set up differently if we are to make any headway..
Smells of last week if we dont....

[whythelongface]

The Hawks are all over us. Their foot skills are amazing.

It is going to be an ugly 2nd half for us.

[comrade]

The team's collective footballing IQ must be questioned with the way we're kicking into the forward 50. Barry Hall is clearly treading water yet we continue to think he's going to outmark 3 defenders by kicking it on his head.

[ledge]

I am now convinced we are rebuilding, I honestly think we are missing Grant, to help out Hall.
I focussed on the kids that quarter ,definitely enthusiasm and effort there, just need some gell as a team.
It will come but I think its a pre season away.

[comrade]

I am now convinced we are rebuilding, I honestly think we are missing Grant, to help out Hall.
I focussed on the kids that quarter ,definitely enthusiasm and effort there, just need some gell as a team.
It will come but I think its a pre season away.

We're just not a great football team. The effort is generally there, we need to work harder to cut the angles and stop those 20m chip kicks but when the ball is there to be won, we're going in hard.

[LostDoggy]

Comments on SEN (not Wallace) said that we were falling down with our setup and structure. They also said that the our defending of the corridor was the worst that they have seen in quite a while. Its not on TV here, so it is always a bit tough to judge it.

[The Pie Man]

My brother just walked past our president at the game, reputedly EXTREMELY grumpy

[Desipura]

Hall is struggling big time with his 2nd efforts, sadly I think the end is sooner than we would like to think.
Midfielders still go to Hall, where are our other forwards?
Gia missed 2 gettable goals, very disappointing as the chance in the 2 nd qtr would have given us some momentum .
Minson needs to be able to out mark Bateman, Jones should play deeper with Hall being subbed off.
Our skills were average, the endeavor was there in the first half. We are playing like a bottom side lacking confidence.
This could yet again turn ugly.

[the banker]

Things ain't what they used to be. Gilbee, Cross, Hall look GONE.
Williams, Gia, Minson not up to standard (unfortunately they're all we've got)

Higgins a passenger just a quality finisher

Murphy, Boyd, Griffen, Morris the only players with poise and security. Ward having acrack and moving well. Lake ?

The kids having a crack without much effect. Wood looks vulnerable. Diito Reid. Howard more confident than I thought he would be.

What is our strategy forward of the ball? BBB primarily should be a decoy drawing players. He needs to lead them under the ball and let Jones mark or Higgins and Sherman run on to it.

If BBB doesnt have an effect in the first 10 maybe sub him off and put Hill/Jones at FF/CHF. Time to go small again.

Defensively acceptable (except for marking the midfielders)

[comrade]

How did Hall fumble that ball? :o

[LostDoggy]

Roughead slots one from 40m , this could get ugly

and Griffen goes off injured , could just be a cork , Hall to be Subbed for Hill

.

[Desipura]

Jones bombs long to Hall, Barry has not taken a contested overhead mark in 14 years, why would he now? Dumb footy, we are like that boxer that has tried to make an unsuccessful comeback
Luckily we have some potential on our list so it is not all doom and gloom.

[LostDoggy]

Williams scores again, 2 goals so far as a forward , after last week one change I did,nt see coming

.

[Rance Fan]

Just no system to our game!
Hawks showing how its done....run, support, present, short sharp precise kicking...goal.

[LostDoggy]

A bit more intensity , quick movement around the wing , 3 quick goals

.

[Rance Fan]

Murphs a star down back...just need him up forward also!

[comrade]

Wow, Wood has been bad today. Suicidal handball to Morris and follows it up with a high tackle.

[MrMahatma]

We can't kick. What's happened?

[comrade]

We can't kick. What's happened?

It's been a gradual decline since 2008.

We love an uncontested game - I think last year we were the least tackled side in the league. This year, the press, reduced interchange etc has turned the pressure up on disposal tenfold and we have a playing group that includes a number of suspect kicks.

Increased pressure + sub par kicking skills = 2011.

Our game plan doesn't quite suit the current state of our personnel .

[comrade]

Morris has been reemed by the umpires today.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Morris has been reemed by the umpires today.

That was just terribe umpiring.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

We really are jut not a good football team anymore.
The effort is by and large there, but the execution and decision making are very poor.

[comrade]

Game over. They've just had a few too many exquisite footballers stand up at important times (Hodge, Franklin, Rioli, Mitchell) while we're relying on foot soldiers.

Just as I type, Jones shanks a left foot under no pressure to Hawk player in our forward line :o

[MrMahatma]

Higgins is pretty poor to be honest.

[comrade]

Is it a team instruction to not guard the corridor? Lewis, Puopolo and Murphy have just waltzed through their all game.

[JohnGentStand]

Gilbee too, I think he is a cert for Willi next week.

[comrade]

Murphy is currently our only player that might sneak into Hawthorn's top 5.

[Dry Rot]

only watched bits and pieces while working. How did Hall go? Doesn't seem to be out there now.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

only watched bits and pieces while working. How did Hall go? Doesn't seem to be out there now.

subbed of for Hill. didn't do much.

[comrade]

only watched bits and pieces while working. How did Hall go? Doesn't seem to be out there now.

He was subbed off after half time after having no impact and got his lower leg iced.

IMO, he's finished.

[Dry Rot]

subbed of for Hill. didn't do much.


He was subbed off after half time after having no impact and got his lower leg iced.

IMO, he's finished.

Thanks.

Not good news. IMO he hasn't looked quite right all year (before he was injured).

Re today, from what I saw the delivery to him was shit.

[comrade]

Thanks.

Not good news. IMO he hasn't looked quite right all year (before he was injured).

Re today, from what I saw the delivery to him was shit.

We're either not drilled well enough to look for other options or we have too many bad decision makers in the team because our continued bombing to Hall with 3 on him is insanity.

It's probably a mix of both.

[comrade]

Just looked at the stats..

They took 180 marks to our 61. Unbelievable.

I need more Hawks players in my SC team.

[LostDoggy]

Howard did pretty well I thought. We looked really keen for the first few minutes but were not really in it for the rest of the game.

[Mantis]

What chance do you have when only one or two members of your leadership group show enough effort and desire to pick up a man.

It is the easiest task to do, but it must be beneath a few if our leaders.. It's bullshit!!!

[LostDoggy]

Marks 61 Dogs 180 Hawks , Tackles almost even 60 Dogs to 63 Hawks , Disposals 299 Dogs 439 Hawks , Hitouts 29 Dogs 42 Hawks

Not sure what to make of it , a bit more intensity in the first half but no impact on the scoreboard , a quiet period where they got ahead , after HT when BBB was Subbed off we lifted again

Chances of making the 8 seemingly slipping away

Positives :

Howard had a go but was a little lost in the second half , will be better for the experience
Wallis had a go made more tackles than any other player on either team

Negatives :

Hall and Lake should not have been selected to play , Jones should been at FF , Markovic should have at FB

.

[SlimPickens]

What chance do you have when only one or two members of your leadership group show enough effort and desire to pick up a man.

It is the easiest task to do, but it must be beneath a few if our leaders.. It's bullshit!!!

Spot on mantis, Cross, Higgins, Gia and Boyd basically let their opposite number do what they like.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Spot on mantis, Cross, Higgins, Gia and Boyd basically let their opposite number do what they like.

Cross moved onto Mitchell and he only gathered a further 2 possessions from that point on, which was I think just before half time. Not sure if Cross was a culprit in the non-manning up charge

[Mantis]

Spot on mantis, Cross, Higgins, Gia and Boyd basically let their opposite number do what they like.

These 2 are clearly the worst... Like pointing their fingers, but aren't willing to work hard to pick up a man.

[BulldogBelle]

Marks 61 Dogs 180 Hawks , Tackles almost even 60 Dogs to 63 Hawks , Disposals 299 Dogs 439 Hawks , Hitouts 29 Dogs 42 Hawks

Not sure what to make of it , a bit more intensity in the first half but no impact on the scoreboard , a quiet period where they got ahead , after HT when BBB was Subbed off we lifted again

Chances of making the 8 seemingly slipping away

Positives :

Howard had a go but was a little lost in the second half , will be better for the experience
Wallis had a go made more tackles than any other player on either team

Negatives :

Hall and Lake should not have been selected to play , Jones should been at FF , Markovic should have at FB

.


Our 'press' just falls to pieces with our current work rate - or lack of it

[bornadog]

Murphy is currently our only player that might sneak into Hawthorn's top 5.

Griffen, Murphy, Picken, you didn't rate their games?

[Mantis]

Our 'press' just falls to pieces with our current work rate - or lack of it

We were man on man when Hawthorn had the ball in stopped ball situations, but we just weren't discplined enough to deny Hawthorn the outlet pass.

[Greystache]

What chance do you have when only one or two members of your leadership group show enough effort and desire to pick up a man.

It is the easiest task to do, but it must be beneath a few if our leaders.. It's bullshit!!!

Higgins and Gia, wow just wow. It's like watching two half forwards from the 80's.

I had to laugh in the last quarter when those two are standing side by side pointing at each other while Guerra hits up a leading forward for the 6th time. Then two minutes later Higgins berating Libba for not chasing after Higgins opponent as he streams through the midfield all alone.

[comrade]

Griffen, Murphy, Picken, you didn't their games?

It's a pointless exercise but I mean in general class.

Franklin
Rioli
Hodge

are better than anyone in our team (currently).

Roughead and Mitchell also have claims.

Only Murphy and Griffen would be thereabouts.

[Mantis]

Higgins and Gia, wow just wow. It's like watching two half forwards from the 80's.

I had to laugh in the last quarter when those two are standing side by side pointing at each other while Guerra hits up a leading forward for the 6th time. Then two minutes later Higgins berating Libba for not chasing after Higgins opponent as he streams through the midfield all alone.

Or when Guerra kicked a goal when we were making a little run in the last when Higgins refused to chase him.

Libba copped it a few times from Higgins..... Awesome leadership. :rolleyes:.... I would have told him to F*** OFF!!!

[bornadog]

Marks 61 Dogs 180 Hawks , T
Positives :

Howard had a go but was a little lost in the second half , will be better for the experience
Wallis had a go made more tackles than any other player on either team

Negatives :

Hall and Lake should not have been selected to play , Jones should been at FF , Markovic should have at FB

.


The marks difference was due to the uncontested Marks in the Hawks backline up and down up and down chriss crossing tell they could get through our zone.

I thought Lake got better as the game went along and he will be better for the run. Hall had no hope marking the ball when he was surrounded by three players and we kicked the ball in the air to him and not on the chest.

One positive, although not great but a glimmer of hope was we won the second half. The negative of course is three goals in the first half killed us.

Special mention must go to Morris, Buddy goal less in the second half, punching out of his weight division but beat him one on one overall for the game.

[Prince Imperial]

Slap: pretty good game by Gia on his 200th
Slap: efforts from Howard particularly early showed promise

Sledge: need more out of both Ward and Sherman in the midfield
Sledge: coach and match committee for selections of Lake and Gilbee

[comrade]

Higgins and Gia, wow just wow. It's like watching two half forwards from the 80's.

I had to laugh in the last quarter when those two are standing side by side pointing at each other while Guerra hits up a leading forward for the 6th time. Then two minutes later Higgins berating Libba for not chasing after Higgins opponent as he streams through the midfield all alone.

It's up to Eade and the MC to highlight this footage during the week and make a point of it. If nothing comes of it, the same players will continue to bring the same sub par work rate and we will continue to be smashed by the good teams and destroyed by the great teams.

We have too many lazy players and it's time that the MC sets the standard. Lake and Gilbee got a reprieve and didn't repay the faith. They need to have a spell, as does Higgins.

Gia is at least dangerous up forward but watching him get run down by Puopolo after having a good 15 metres on him was painful.

[LostDoggy]

Or when Guerra kicked a goal when we were making a little run in the last when Higgins refused to chase him.

Libba copped it a few times from Higgins..... Awesome leadership. :rolleyes:.... I would have told him to F*** OFF!!!

Only listened to the game but saw footage of this incident on the 7.00pm news! I nearly choked on my dinner? WTF! Surely our "leadership" group have to be hauled over the coals for this? IMO, the more experienced guys should be the ones who are setting the example in every way, and this will just drag the younger guys along with them - they will be willing to work as hard as they can under that kind of leadership. Sounded like Murph, Morris and Griff were the only ones out there at times during the radio call.....

[bornadog]

It's a pointless exercise but I mean in general class.

Franklin
Rioli
Hodge

are better than anyone in our team (currently).

Roughead and Mitchell also have claims.

Only Murphy and Griffen would be thereabouts.

Sorry, Rioli was beaten today by Picken. He basically negated him and didn't have the influence he normally has on a game.

[SonofScray]

I can't see how Higgins' selection is justified. He has given us nothing, showed some terrible leadership tonight and just has not got any weapons in his arsenal at the moment. His selection is a blight on the coach and selection panel.

Beyond that, his general application and output is so terrible that his reputation as a future star, captain or whatever surely has been damaged. With regards to the the Libba incidents, along side the handful of times he watched his man gallop away and refused to work, instead following the play into the defence and starting to 'marshal' the players was shocking. Made him look like an absolute tool from up where we were.

Injuries or not, put simply, he does not deserve selection. At all. Play someone with something to offer.

[comrade]

Sorry, Rioli was beaten today by Picken. He basically negated him and didn't have the influence he normally has on a game.

He was negated by Picken, not beaten. I love Picko, by the way.

I'm talking in general, not just on today's game. Murphy and/or Griff are currently our only 2 players who would be thereabouts if we we ranking both team's top 5 players.

[bornadog]

Gilbee = 8 disposals,

Jones 5

Hill 8 (half game

Reid 8

Hall 2 (half game


You can't win a game if you can't get your hands on it.

Add to that Wood, Libba, Wallis, Howard and Lake all with only 11

[Sedat]

We have too many lazy players and it's time that the MC sets the standard. Lake and Gilbee got a reprieve and didn't repay the faith. They need to have a spell, as does Higgins.
Lazy combined with slow is a rotten combination.

We urgently need an injection of leg speed into the team. Cooney has been savagely missed.

[Greystache]

Or when Guerra kicked a goal when we were making a little run in the last when Higgins refused to chase him.

Libba copped it a few times from Higgins..... Awesome leadership. :rolleyes:.... I would have told him to F*** OFF!!!

You can't have blokes like that in the leadership group, the days of the one way player are gone. It seems we're one of the few teams that can't see it.


It's up to Eade and the MC to highlight this footage during the week and make a point of it. If nothing comes of it, the same players will continue to bring the same sub par work rate and we will continue to be smashed by the good teams and destroyed by the great teams.

We have too many lazy players and it's time that the MC sets the standard. Lake and Gilbee got a reprieve and didn't repay the faith. They need to have a spell, as does Higgins.

Gia is at least dangerous up forward but watching him get run down by Puopolo after having a good 15 metres on him was painful.

Eade constantly tell us the players aren't following instructions, surely this has to be one of the areas.

Knowing the result was a formality I actually focussed on set ups and players work rate which is something I'd only do at a neutral game, and it was pretty eye opening. That lack of preparedness of our high forwards to man up on running half back is disgusting. When the opposition takes a mark in space with a runner in support there's almost a foot race between our players to get to the mark first so they don't have to be the one to chase the handball reveiver, really worry pattern, shows less concern for the outcome and more just to tick their individual indicator stat. Also our midfielders can see an opposition player running into space but won't chase them until they actually get the ball, then it's a half arsed chase when it's too late- Ward and Boyd are examples of this.

[AndrewP6]

Early in the year, the word coming from Bulldogs HQ was that our fitness base was being built up to peak later in the year. To my eyes, we look slow and unfit. At this rate, the second half of the season will be a write-off.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Everything's been covered so I won't elaborate, but I sincerely hope we make the right decisions going forward. That is, we develop for the future.

Hall stunted Jones' development today. I think Barry is finished, personally.

Gilbee is taking the spot of another young player. Again, Gilbee is finished.

Higgins needs a spell at Williamstown and we need to play Dollhouse.

They are the most obvious ones, but we have plenty of other concerns too.

[Sedat]

You can't have blokes like that in the leadership group, the days of the one way player are gone. It seems we're one of the few teams that can't see it.
I've said this elsewhere previously, but if a one-way one-trick pony like Milne can successfully re-adjust his game completely so that it incorporates 100% commitment to defensive pursuits like chasing, tackling and harrassing whenever he doesn't have the ball, then anyone can.

[Greystache]

I've said this elsewhere previously, but if a one-way one-trick pony like Milne can successfully re-adjust his game completely so that it incorporates 100% commitment to defensive pursuits like chasing, tackling and harrassing whenever he doesn't have the ball, then anyone can.

A stint in the VFL when he was still doing well offensively set the tone. Not sure we'd do the same with Higgins or Gia.

[MrMahatma]

Everything's been covered so I won't elaborate, but I sincerely hope we make the right decisions going forward. That is, we develop for the future.

Hall stunted Jones' development today. I think Barry is finished, personally.

Gilbee is taking the spot of another young player. Again, Gilbee is finished.

Higgins needs a spell at Williamstown and we need to play Dollhouse.

They are the most obvious ones, but we have plenty of other concerns too.
I Agree.

Can't see Hall being put out to pasture though. There'll be a few retirements this year, no doubt.

[bornadog]

I Agree.

Can't see Hall being put out to pasture though. There'll be a few retirements this year, no doubt.

We have to be fair to Hall, the ball delivery was just pathethic to him. He has never been good at contested marking, but what do we do, kick it to him when he is surrounded by three players. He has no hope. We know his defensive pressure is no good, but he does present a target up forward and the opposition have to put their best backman on him.

[LostDoggy]

I Agree.

Can't see Hall being put out to pasture though. There'll be a few retirements this year, no doubt.

They were saying on the radio during the game that they thought Bazza was injured and was unable to run at all? Is that true, I haven't seen anyone mention this....

[Desipura]

Spot on mantis, Cross, Higgins, Gia and Boyd basically let their opposite number do what they like.

Which is why you have to move on the older guys from that group. The game is too fast for them to keep up.

[G-Mo77]

I was at a wedding yesterday and haven't watched the game. Should I save myself the trouble and not watch it? :)

[bornadog]

I was at a wedding yesterday and haven't watched the game. Should I save myself the trouble and not watch it? :)

Up to you. One thing we won the second half so maybe watch a bit of the first, fast forward the second and watch the last two quarters.

[comrade]

I was at a wedding yesterday and haven't watched the game. Should I save myself the trouble and not watch it? :)

It's worth it to watch how good Murphy, Griffen and Morris were. There were also positives to take out of Jones' and Howard's game.

This year is all about taking pleasure in the little things :D

[Mantis]

A few observations from yesterdays game (that I haven't covered in other threads):

* Liam Jones - this kid can play, took some nice strong marks, but his positioning is horrible. So many times when we were looking for someone to present Liam was on the wrong side of the ground. He is still a baby in footy terms, but this part of his game needs some serious attention.

* Dale Morris - is a warrior, he just battles his arse for the entire game. Inspirational.

* Brian Lake - you should take a look at Dale Morris and be ashamed of yourself. Here we have a dual AA FB who at times was picking up Whitecross & Mitchell all while Morris was busting his arse on Buddy. Brian you should be on Buddy. Brian pull your head our from where it's hiding, train your butt off and get yourself fit because your team needs you. It's time to earn the big pay cheque you fought hard to receive.

* Work around the ball - Our contested play was very good yesterday, we hit in hard and won the ball well, but our spread and decision making from the contest was (is) horrible. So many times we have a numbers advantage, but rather than working our way through the congestion we kick quickly to our disadvantage. We moved the ball well at times in the 2nd half, but early on it was horrible.

Where are we at:

* We are not a great team to watch at present and we aren't very good. Our best 2 players are injured or playing injured, we have 4 or 5 'oldies' who are battling and we have 4 or 5 kids who are just finding there way. We are being held together by 4 to 6 'goers' who need to be commended on their efforts.

* Leaders - Can we try and just get the basics right. Let's man up. Let's chase. Let's set the example for our kids.

* The coach - Rocket says he loves the teaching aspect of coaching. As long no rash decisions are made over the next 13 games Rocket has this time to show that he can teach our players. We are a team going through a transition period so Rocket & the MC need to carefully pick the players who can take us forward and teach these players how to implement a game style which can be competitive against good teams. I watched with interest how Rocket interacted with players at the 1/4 & 3/4 breaks and it looked like he was in 'teaching' mode, he was animated with his movements, but he looked like he was giving solid advice on positioning and the like... it was good stuff.

[Desipura]

A few observations from yesterdays game (that I haven't covered in other threads):

* Liam Jones - this kid can play, took some nice strong marks, but his positioning is horrible. So many times when we were looking for someone to present Liam was on the wrong side of the ground. He is still a baby in footy terms, but this part of his game needs some serious attention.

* Dale Morris - is a warrior, he just battles his arse for the entire game. Inspirational.

* Brian Lake - you should take a look at Dale Morris and be ashamed of yourself. Here we have a dual AA FB who at times was picking up Whitecross & Mitchell all while Morris was busting his arse on Buddy. Brian you should be on Buddy. Brian pull your head our from where it's hiding, train your butt off and get yourself fit because your team needs you. It's time to earn the big pay cheque you fought hard to receive.

* Work around the ball - Our contested play was very good yesterday, we hit in hard and won the ball well, but our spread and decision making from the contest was (is) horrible. So many times we have a numbers advantage, but rather than working our way through the congestion we kick quickly to our disadvantage. We moved the ball well at times in the 2nd half, but early on it was horrible.

Where are we at:

* We are not a great team to watch at present and we aren't very good. Our best 2 players are injured or playing injured, we have 4 or 5 'oldies' who are battling and we have 4 or 5 kids who are just finding there way. We are being held together by 4 to 6 'goers' who need to be commended on their efforts.

* Leaders - Can we try and just get the basics right. Let's man up. Let's chase. Let's set the example for our kids.
* The coach - Rocket says he loves the teaching aspect of coaching. As long no rash decisions are made over the next 13 games Rocket has this time to show that he can teach our players. We are a team going through a transition period so Rocket & the MC need to carefully pick the players who can take us forward and teach these players how to implement a game style which can be competitive against good teams. I watched with interest how Rocket interacted with players at the 1/4 & 3/4 breaks and it looked like he was in 'teaching' mode, he was animated with his movements, but he looked like he was giving solid advice on positioning and the like... it was good stuff.
Re: Lake should be ashamed of himself, you have quoted Matthew LLoyd word for word this morning.
How do we teach the guys (especially the older ones) to chase? I know you said Rocket has to choose the players who can take us forward carefully.

To spread, you need to have ample pace, a midfield of Wallis, Libba, Cross, Boyd, Gia (when he has stints in there) and Boyd is way too slow. Griffen and Cooney excluded.

Is retiring 3 or 4 players ie Hall, Hudson, Gilbee and Gia and rash? No matter how many older guys we retire or choose to retire, it will be considered rash by some.

[aker39]

.

* Brian Lake - you should take a look at Dale Morris and be ashamed of yourself. Here we have a dual AA FB who at times was picking up Whitecross & Mitchell all while Morris was busting his arse on Buddy. Brian you should be on Buddy. Brian pull your head our from where it's hiding, train your butt off and get yourself fit because your team needs you. It's time to earn the big pay cheque you fought hard to receive.

It really does look like a case of someone who has got their big pay day and couldn't give a stuff anymore.

[Mantis]

How do we teach the guys (especially the older ones) to chase? I know you said Rocket has to choose the players who can take us forward carefully.

You set non-negiotables and if they don't do they pay the consequence whether it be removal from the leadership group or demotion to the 2's.


Is retiring 3 or 4 players ie Hall, Hudson, Gilbee and Gia and rash? No matter how many older guys we retire or choose to retire, it will be considered rash by some.

The 'rash' comment was more to do with sacking the coach mid-season which hopefully isn't something we will do.

[Greystache]

You set non-negiotables and if they don't do they pay the consequence whether it be removal from the leadership group or demotion to the 2's

Can you see Eade or the current MC ever making that stand?

Can you see Gia being dropped after kicking 3 goals because his opponent was BOG and he refused to run and man up? Or dropping Higgins because his opponent was close to BOG for the same reason? We had a chance to make a statement last year with Boyd and it wasn't even a consideration, our current coaching group have made their position clear, so long as you contribute offensively you're safe no matter how bad you get burnt defensively.

[Desipura]

Can you see Eade or the current MC ever making that stand?

Can you see Gia being dropped after kicking 3 goals because his opponent was BOG and he refused to run and man up? Or dropping Higgins because his opponent was close to BOG for the same reason? We had a chance to make a statement last year with Boyd and it wasn't even a consideration, our current coaching group have made their position clear, so long as you contribute offensively you're safe no matter how bad you get burnt defensively.
100% spot on!

[bornadog]

A few observations from yesterdays game (that I haven't covered in other threads):

* Liam Jones - this kid can play, took some nice strong marks, but his positioning is horrible. So many times when we were looking for someone to present Liam was on the wrong side of the ground. He is still a baby in footy terms, but this part of his game needs some serious attention..

I though it was Liam's worse game for us. Picked up 5 miserable disposals. One of his major issues is when he is in a marking contest, he prefers to switch from infront of his opponent to the back. Having said that, I would not drop him for the season as he has alot of upside.


A few observations from yesterdays game (that I haven't covered in other threads):

* Brian Lake - you should take a look at Dale Morris and be ashamed of yourself. Here we have a dual AA FB who at times was picking up Whitecross & Mitchell all while Morris was busting his arse on Buddy. Brian you should be on Buddy. Brian pull your head our from where it's hiding, train your butt off and get yourself fit because your team needs you. It's time to earn the big pay cheque you fought hard to receive.

Will be better for the run.

[bornadog]

100% spot on!

No its not


Can you see Gia being dropped after kicking 3 goals because his opponent was BOG and he refused to run and man up? .

Guerra didn't play on Gia, Puopolo did.

The uncontested marks and high possessiosn in the backline for the Hawks was due to the keeping off style footy. (This is how we use to play last year)
Yes our players didn't man them up, but was this part of the game plan? Whilst Guerra and co were passing the ball to each other, our entire forward line, yes all 6 including Gia, and Higgins were zoning off in the Hawks half of the ground.
Was this deliberate instructions by the coach?

[Cyberdoggie]

To spread, you need to have ample pace, a midfield of Wallis, Libba, Cross, Boyd, Gia (when he has stints in there) and Boyd is way too slow. Griffen and Cooney excluded.


There is not a lot of pace in the side and that clearly showed against a side i wouldn't call particularly quick in Hawthorn (A few exceptions of course).

The only players of real pace or acceleration we have in the side are Wood, Griffen, Murphy. The rest are either 1 paced, slow, or ageing and getting slower.

Early under Rocket we were a dangerous side with our run and carry, and our risk taking football. Play on, run and break the lines. Obviously we got found out defensively in the end but now we suck at both. The game is changing with far more defensive work being done but if you don't attack or try to attack then you can't succeed.

in the GC v Geelong game, even a young side like the GC in the first half were going breaking the lines and more importantly clearing a path for that player by laying a shepherd or bump. We are bloody awful at this and we just dish it off to someone else. All the while the opposition just hunt us and then wait for one of the few players we have to get the ball who will run then they nail him (Griffen).
Just once i'd like to see the bloke who gives the ball to griffen follow it up with a bump to try and clear the space for him to move through.

[bornadog]

There is not a lot of pace in the side and that clearly showed against a side i wouldn't call particularly quick in Hawthorn (A few exceptions of course).

The only players of real pace or acceleration we have in the side are Wood, Griffen, Murphy. The rest are either 1 paced, slow, or ageing and getting slower.

Early under Rocket we were a dangerous side with our run and carry, and our risk taking football. Play on, run and break the lines. Obviously we got found out defensively in the end but now we suck at both. The game is changing with far more defensive work being done but if you don't attack or try to attack then you can't succeed.

in the GC v Geelong game, even a young side like the GC in the first half were going breaking the lines and more importantly clearing a path for that player by laying a shepherd or bump. We are bloody awful at this and we just dish it off to someone else. All the while the opposition just hunt us and then wait for one of the few players we have to get the ball who will run then they nail him (Griffen).
Just once i'd like to see the bloke who gives the ball to griffen follow it up with a bump to try and clear the space for him to move through.

Sherman is pretty quick but doesn't get enough of it, ditto Moles.

[always right]

I though it was Liam's worse game for us. Picked up 5 miserable disposals. One of his major issues is when he is in a marking contest, he prefers to switch from infront of his opponent to the back. Having said that, I would not drop him for the season as he has alot of upside.

Could not disagree more. This bloke with Morris were absolute beacons yesterday. It wasn't about posessions...it was about commitment. Some of his efforts when caught one-out with Buddy were inspirational, particularly early in the game.

I'm not sure if it was a tactic but there were occasions where Picken manned up on Buddy and allowed Morris to come over the top and spoil. Is this bloke in our leadership group and if not...why not?

[Maddog37]

It really does look like a case of someone who has got their big pay day and couldn't give a stuff anymore.



This really is a bit sad IMO.

He just looks like a bloke out of form and struggling with his body and by extension motivation. He has been a loyal servant and great player for the club for quite a few years now.

Suddenly there is a few stories about him in the media etc and he is copping shit from people.

Short memories........

[bornadog]

Could not disagree more. This bloke with Morris were absolute beacons yesterday. It wasn't about posessions...it was about commitment. Some of his efforts when caught one-out with Buddy were inspirational, particularly early in the game.

I'm not sure if it was a tactic but there were occasions where Picken manned up on Buddy and allowed Morris to come over the top and spoil. Is this bloke in our leadership group and if not...why not?

Sorry talking about Liam Jones, you need to follow the thread I quoted.

[always right]

Sorry talking about Liam Jones, you need to follow the thread I quoted.

sorry:o

[Mantis]

Can you see Eade or the current MC ever making that stand?

Can you see Gia being dropped after kicking 3 goals because his opponent was BOG and he refused to run and man up? Or dropping Higgins because his opponent was close to BOG for the same reason? We had a chance to make a statement last year with Boyd and it wasn't even a consideration, our current coaching group have made their position clear, so long as you contribute offensively you're safe no matter how bad you get burnt defensively.

They really need to.

I was really surprised by the amount of abuse Higgins copped from our members yesterday.

Say what you like our members, but the ones who were there yesterday were there to see there team put up a fight, show some pride and to have a crack. To many Higgins wasn't having a crack, he was bludging and our members don't like bludgers.

[Greystache]

They really need to.

I was really surprised by the amount of abuse Higgins copped from our members yesterday.

Say what you like our members, but the ones who were there yesterday were there to see there team put up a fight, show some pride and to have a crack. To many Higgins wasn't having a crack, he was bludging and our members don't like bludgers.

My fear is if we don't make changes at years end our leadership group will be allowed to continue to play the game on their terms until they drift off into retirement, then hand responsibility over to the next generation having taught them the leaders are bigger than the club.

[bornadog]

My fear is if we don't make changes at years end our leadership group will be allowed to continue to play the game on their terms until they drift off into retirement, then hand responsibility over to the next generation having taught them the leaders are bigger than the club.

What changes would you like to see at year end?

[always right]

They really need to.

I was really surprised by the amount of abuse Higgins copped from our members yesterday.

Say what you like our members, but the ones who were there yesterday were there to see there team put up a fight, show some pride and to have a crack. To many Higgins wasn't having a crack, he was bludging and our members don't like bludgers.

Just curious.....how many of our blokes are aware of how they are preceived by the members....or do they live in a bubble? Look at Brett Stanton....no chance he wouldn't be aware of how he is viewed by his own supporters.

It also begs the question as to how he is seen by his team mates. He's been touted as a future capatain but if we can see him taking shortcuts on the field, his team mates must also see this. I always imagine what someone like Liam Picken thinks of the lack of effort from some on his team.

[Murphy'sLore]

My fear is if we don't make changes at years end our leadership group will be allowed to continue to play the game on their terms until they drift off into retirement, then hand responsibility over to the next generation having taught them the leaders are bigger than the club.

Just wondering, as a relatively new recruit to the Bulldogs myself, if this is perhaps a cultural legacy of being an historically unsuccessful club, that individual heroes have been elevated above the club as a whole, simply as a product of not having team success to celebrate. So we worship our Chris Grants and Johnnos because we haven't had premiership cups to wave around. Does this set up a pattern where individual achievement on the field is more valued than team effort?

Not trying to be smart but genuinely interested if this is perhaps a part of our club's culture which is now holding us back.

[w3design]

What changes would you like to see at year end?

I actually wouldn't mind seeing a review of how we implement the Leading Teams program. I don't want to see it jettisoned but I have a feeling that having a "leadership group" actually undermines the whole peer review system and turns it it into a two tier system, those in the leadership group and those not. This however is a whole new thread, I apologise for the digression.

[Ghost Dog]

Just wondering, as a relatively new recruit to the Bulldogs myself, if this is perhaps a cultural legacy of being an historically unsuccessful club, that individual heroes have been elevated above the club as a whole, simply as a product of not having team success to celebrate. So we worship our Chris Grants and Johnnos because we haven't had premiership cups to wave around. Does this set up a pattern where individual achievement on the field is more valued than team effort?

Not trying to be smart but genuinely interested if this is perhaps a part of our club's culture which is now holding us back.

Hey, interesting post. Good points for discussion

[Ghost Dog]

You set non-negiotables and if they don't do they pay the consequence whether it be removal from the leadership group or demotion to the 2's.



The 'rash' comment was more to do with sacking the coach mid-season which hopefully isn't something we will do.

Agreed. Rocket needs to be given time to prove himself in a tough patch. He , in part with injuries and list issues. dug his hole, lets see if he can dig himself out.

[always right]

Just wondering, as a relatively new recruit to the Bulldogs myself, if this is perhaps a cultural legacy of being an historically unsuccessful club, that individual heroes have been elevated above the club as a whole, simply as a product of not having team success to celebrate. So we worship our Chris Grants and Johnnos because we haven't had premiership cups to wave around. Does this set up a pattern where individual achievement on the field is more valued than team effort?

Not trying to be smart but genuinely interested if this is perhaps a part of our club's culture which is now holding us back.

Would have been interesting if Gia had declared that there would be no celebration of his 200 games this week, no banner, no interviews about his milestone. With all the statements during the week about the need for us to band together as a club, no scapegoats, no individual blame.....a gesture like this from Gia could have been quite powerful. Just a thought.

[Greystache]

What changes would you like to see at year end?

I've said it in other threads, I think we need a change of coach, that coach to be someone who's had premiership success and hasn't been involved with the Bulldogs before, and for the new coach to bring their own assistants.

[Greystache]

Just wondering, as a relatively new recruit to the Bulldogs myself, if this is perhaps a cultural legacy of being an historically unsuccessful club, that individual heroes have been elevated above the club as a whole, simply as a product of not having team success to celebrate. So we worship our Chris Grants and Johnnos because we haven't had premiership cups to wave around. Does this set up a pattern where individual achievement on the field is more valued than team effort?

Not trying to be smart but genuinely interested if this is perhaps a part of our club's culture which is now holding us back.

Yes, that's what I believe.

[aker39]

I've said it in other threads, I think we need a change of coach, that coach to be someone who's had premiership success and hasn't been involved with the Bulldogs before, and for the new coach to bring their own assistants.

Which one:

Mick Malthouse
Paul Roos
Mark Williams
Leigh Matthews
Dennis Pagan

[Greystache]

Which one:

Mick Malthouse
Paul Roos
Mark Williams
Leigh Matthews
Dennis Pagan

It doesn't have to be an established senior coach.

[Ghost Dog]

It doesn't have to be an established senior coach.

your pick?

[aker39]

It doesn't have to be an established senior coach.

You said a coach that had premiership success.

[G-Mo77]

It doesn't have to be an established senior coach.

So someone who has coached under those coaches listed then?

Mark Neeld?

[Greystache]

You said a coach that had premiership success.

Where did I say senior coach?

[bornadog]

You said a coach that had premiership success.

I think he means premiership success as a player or coach/assistant coach.

[Greystache]

So someone who has coached under those coaches listed then?

Mark Neeld?

Someone along those lines, Sanderson gets spoken highly of too. Obviously it would depend on who interviews best and has the best plan for the team.

[w3design]

It's not that I think Eade is a poor coach but it must be extremely hard for him to rationally and clinically assess the list and players with whom he has a close bond. These guys achieved a lot for him. I've heard him describing Cross as the guy you'd love your daughter to bring home. Could he really run a cold hard eye over a bloke like this and say, he is not the future, we'll cut him.

I wonder if Eade has the stomach (different from guts) to make these calls on guys he's been in the trenches with for so many years. For that reason I think a change of coach while the transition happens may be a good thing.

[bornadog]

It's not that I think Eade is a poor coach but it must be extremely hard for him to rationally and clinically assess the list and players with whom he has a close bond. These guys achieved a lot for him. I've heard him describing Cross as the guy you'd love your daughter to bring home. Could he really run a cold hard eye over a bloke like this and say, he is not the future, we'll cut him.

I wonder if Eade has the stomach (different from guts) to make these calls on guys he's been in the trenches with for so many years. For that reason I think a change of coach while the transition happens may be a good thing.

Do you really think its just one person that makes these decisions? There is a whole coaching panel and a General Manager of Football Operations.

[Ghost Dog]

Do you really think its just one person that makes these decisions? There is a whole coaching panel and a General Manager of Football Operations.

But the coach has the final say. Doesn't he?

[LostDoggy]

Do you really think its just one person that makes these decisions? There is a whole coaching panel and a General Manager of Football Operations.

The coach would have a pretty strong say in the matter, would he not?

[bornadog]

The coach would have a pretty strong say in the matter, would he not?

Yes he would but, I doubt he is stupid enough to keep players because he hasn't got it in him to get rid of them or they are his favourites. Surely people don't think the club is totally unprofessional and the club doesn't have a review system to work out who they should keep and who they shouldn't.

Go back to the 1996 review in the Year of The dog and you see Wallet even back then assessing each player with his MC. These days its not just sitting around with the MC there would be input from fitness guys, physios, Doctors , sports science, list management, salary cap, etc etc.

Anyone that thinks Eade sits there and makes all the decisions without consulting others in the club hasn't got a clue.

[w3design]

Yes he would but, I doubt he is stupid enough to keep players because he hasn't got it in him to get rid of them or they are his favourites. Surely people don't think the club is totally unprofessional and the club doesn't have a review system to work out who they should keep and who they shouldn't.

Go back to the 1996 review in the Year of The dog and you see Wallet even back then assessing each player with his MC. These days its not just sitting around with the MC there would be input from fitness guys, physios, Doctors , sports science, list management, salary cap, etc etc.

Anyone that thinks Eade sits there and makes all the decisions without consulting others in the club hasn't got a clue.

It's disappointing that people have to keep attacking other posters like this. I don't think my post implied Rocket was stupid. Is it possible to make the same point, that any such decisions are not one person's alone, without adopting this kind of tone?

[LostDoggy]

Yes he would but, I doubt he is stupid enough to keep players because he hasn't got it in him to get rid of them or they are his favourites. Surely people don't think the club is totally unprofessional and the club doesn't have a review system to work out who they should keep and who they shouldn't.

Go back to the 1996 review in the Year of The dog and you see Wallet even back then assessing each player with his MC. These days its not just sitting around with the MC there would be input from fitness guys, physios, Doctors , sports science, list management, salary cap, etc etc.

Anyone that thinks Eade sits there and makes all the decisions without consulting others in the club hasn't got a clue.

A review of each player is all well & good, but surely the buck stops with someone?

I would be surprised if it came down to a vote situation on players.


It's disappointing that people have to keep attacking other posters like this. I don't think my post implied Rocket was stupid. Is it possible to make the same point, that any such decisions are not one person's alone, without adopting this kind of tone?

It is a reason why i don't visit this forum as often as i once did.

[AndrewP6]

They were saying on the radio during the game that they thought Bazza was injured and was unable to run at all? Is that true, I haven't seen anyone mention this....

Well, he wasn't exactly gazelle-like. :)

[bornadog]

It's disappointing that people have to keep attacking other posters like this. I don't think my post implied Rocket was stupid. Is it possible to make the same point, that any such decisions are not one person's alone, without adopting this kind of tone?

You call that attacking you, I was responding to your post. Gee everyone is getting very sensitive.

[Desipura]

You call that attacking you, I was responding to your post. Gee everyone is getting very sensitive.

Seriously..........dont worry about it BAD, I don't think you would ever attack anyone, it does not appear to be a part of your nature.

[bornadog]

Seriously..........dont worry about it BAD, I don't think you would ever attack anyone, it does not appear to be a part of your nature.

Desi, I am not sure what to make of your post:p

[Desipura]

Desi, I am not sure what to make of your post:p

When I start it with seriously, do you think I am joking? No, I was being complimentary.

[bornadog]

When I start it with seriously, do you think I am joking? No, I was being complimentary.

ok, I thought it was tongue in cheek. Thanks.:)

[Desipura]

ok, I thought it was tongue in cheek. Thanks.:)

I was serious