Round #12 Match Committee

[GVGjr]

If you were on the Match Committee who would the likely ins and outs for the round 12 away game against the resurgent Saints side next Friday night at the Docklands?

[Topdog]

Outs: Grant, Jones (get him touching the ball again)
Ins: Will wait for the Williamstown match.

[LostDoggy]

Grant out
Cooney in

[LostDoggy]

We are now 3 and 7. The time has come to embrace the kids and get rid of those who wont be there for the next tilt.

[GVGjr]

We are now 3 and 7. The time has come to embrace the kids and get rid of those who wont be there for the next tilt.

It's not like we haven't been playing the younger guys.
Who are you suggesting we should be getting rid of?

[Remi Moses]

Josh Holl must never play for the club again, according to The Great Man on 774!
Agree entirely

[Dogmatic]

Maybe we can elevate future father sons such as Hunter and Beasley for next weeks game. They will probably be better than whoever else we bring in.

[Dogmatic]

Josh Holl must never play for the club again, according to The Great Man on 774!
Agree entirely

It's not looking good. It's so frustrating because he showed so much talent early in his career.

[AndrewP6]

Hill ought to have a locker with his name engraved on it - at Williamstown. Grant needs a spell, doesn't offer anything. Hard to see what Higgins offers at the moment.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Out: Hill, Grant, Higgins
In: Wait and see.

-------------------------------------------------------

* Hill was dreadful. May have played his last game for the club. I defended him earlier in the year, but god, he's awful.

* Grant should not have played in the first place. Worrying signs. Never seems to be in the right position. Combination of footy nous and work rate I suspect.

* Higgins did a few OK things, but far from good enough. Doesn't offer anything defensively and struggles to find the ball. Only able to slot a few goals when the ball's given to him. I think he needs to go back to Williamstown and find confidence in his ability to play football again. A 3 or 4 week stint would be my suggestion.

[G-Mo77]

I'm prepared to keep Higgins in, he wasn't terrible and showed some good signs.

I think we'll lose Shaggy, might save him because he was poor. I did like his elbow though, couldn't have hit a more deserving player.

Hill, done as far as I'm concerned.

Grant, Out. Horrible again although limited chances in the forward half.

I really don't think you can make many more realistic outs.

[kruder]

Just watching Willy, expect Tutt and Versper to push for selection.

[SlimPickens]

Just watching Willy, expect Tutt and Versper to push for selection.

Agree both have been good have also liked dahlhaus and hoopers games. Will do a proper write up in the appropriate thread

[Jasper]

Its hard to see the point of changes. What bring Hill out bring Stack in? Same player really in terms of hardness, at least Stack looks interested I suppose.... Guys like Dollhouse and Schofield have to be looked at despite them not being ready. We seem to have 3 groups of players at present.

1 - Those who have a crack and back it up with skill Murphy, Gia, Morris and Griffen
2 - Those who have a crack and crucify us with poor execution, led by Boyd this encompasses the majority of the team
3 - Those who don't seem to have a crack Hill, Lake and Grant

It is hard to drop the guys having a crack ahead of those who don't. So the outs are easy (see point 3). But gee I'd love to send a message to Boyd that despite being told in a team meeting and probably beating himself up about his turnovers, that skill areas are killing us, I'd love to drop him, but we won't.

Its really disappointing. So what we bring another slow hard turnover merchant like Addison for who...Grant? So maybe

Vez for Grant
Markovic for Lake
Tutt for Hill
Schofield for Boyd (to send a message that turnovers are not acceptable and will not be tolerated)

[Ghost Dog]

Its hard to see the point of changes. What bring Hill out bring Stack in? Same player really in terms of hardness, at least Stack looks interested I suppose.... Guys like Dollhouse and Schofield have to be looked at despite them not being ready. We seem to have 3 groups of players at present.

1 - Those who have a crack and back it up with skill Murphy, Gia, Morris and Griffen
2 - Those who have a crack and crucify us with poor execution, led by Boyd this encompasses the majority of the team
3 - Those who don't seem to have a crack Hill, Lake and Grant

It is hard to drop the guys having a crack ahead of those who don't. So the outs are easy (see point 3). But gee I'd love to send a message to Boyd that despite being told in a team meeting and probably beating himself up about his turnovers, that skill areas are killing us, I'd love to drop him, but we won't.

Its really disappointing. So what we bring another slow hard turnover merchant like Addison for who...Grant? So maybe

Vez for Grant
Markovic for Lake
Tutt for Hill
Schofield for Boyd (to send a message that turnovers are not acceptable and will not be tolerated)

Agreed. I just worry, at 30+ how much can we expect him to improve?
It's not his endevour, but his skills. No quick fix for that and how can you drop the captain?
Wish we could, but for who?

[Hotdog60]

In Patrick Veszpremi for Grant
In Luke Dahlhaus for Wallis

I also liked the look of Tutt and Panos today but can't drop any more for them.

[LostDoggy]

positives is that, atleast the ressies looked good.

Out: Grant and Hill have to go. maybe Lake

In: Vespremi, Libba/schoefield, Marko.


Could see have Panos for Jones, but i think that would be a bit much

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Didnt Willy have the bye this week??

IN: Cooney, Vez

Out: Hill, Grant

[Topdog]

they played the Foxtel Cup against West Adelaide this evening

[Desipura]

Josh Holl must never play for the club again, according to The Great Man on 774!
Agree entirely

That's no surprise yet some think he can be a long term AFL player, highly unlikely!

[LostDoggy]

Out: Hill, Grant
In: Hall, Gilbee

I'd like to see Schofield, Tutt or Dahlhaus debut but don't know who would go out for one of them.

I'm not sure if Cooney is right but when he is, who goes out for him? DJ?

[LostDoggy]

It's not like we haven't been playing the younger guys.
Who are you suggesting we should be getting rid of?

I dont think it is necessary for me spell out which players need to make way for the next generation. We have all seen too often this season which ones wont take us to the next level.

[LostDoggy]

I think we'll lose Shaggy, might save him because he was poor. I did like his elbow though, couldn't have hit a more deserving player.


Who did he get GMo? ........ didnt here anything on the radio coverage.

[BulldogBelle]

Who did he get GMo? ........ didnt here anything on the radio coverage.


Steve Johnson. Not much force in it.

[Desipura]

In Libba, Cooney, Tutt
Out Wallis, Hill, Grant
If Cooney does not pay, Veszpremi comes in.
I did initially call for Dahlhaus to play, he would have to be close.........

[GVGjr]

I dont think it is necessary for me spell out which players need to make way for the next generation. We have all seen too often this season which ones wont take us to the next level.

It's a match committee thread and most will nominate the players they want in and the players that should be dropped.

[MrMahatma]

It's just a merry go round at the minute. Hill, Gilbee, Stack, Wallis, Grant... In/out Every other week.

Personally, IMO Hill should be given his marching orders.

I also don't know how young players can look up to Boyd, who seems to hit opposition players lace out more often than not. Not taking the Mick - but is his eyesight OK?

[LostDoggy]

Very early possible

BP.....Picken.......Markovic.......Morris
HB.....Wood........Mulligan.......Murphy
C......Griffen.........Ward.........Howard
HF....Sherman......Jones.........Skinner
F.......Hooper.....Veszpremi....Giansiracusa
Foll...Minson.........Cross.........Djerrkura

INT: Boyd, Williams, Wallis Sub: Hargrave

OUT: Grant, Higgins, Lake, Hill

.

[Ghost Dog]

Starting with the back three. If not dropped, Lake needs to be foward to get him to make room for a team player, someone who can have a permanent spot. The three players ( suggest Marco, Glove, Wood ) need to be joined at the head. Brians mind is elsewhere at the moment.

Cross - out , other players need a go, chance to learn their trade.

Hill - out

Grant - out

Lake - out

Boyd - out ( a man can dream )

In - Dahlhaus,Tutt, Cordy, Barlow

[BulldogBelle]

Out: Grant, Hill, maybe Williams

In: Marko, Dalhaus, Roughy

[Rocco Jones]

Out: Hill, Grant, Shaggy (if suspended)
In: Cooney, Dahlhaus, Vez (if Shaggy/Cooney aren't available), Barlow (if Shaggy and Cooney are out)

Calls for Boyd being out are ridiculous. I know he isn't the perfect player but he is the least of our concerns.

[comrade]

Rocket seemed pretty adamant in his presser that he'll continue to clear out the under-performers and introduce new players.

Cordy, Dahlhaus, Vez and Schofield must all be on the radar.

[Go_Dogs]

Out: Grant, Hill
In: Dahlhaus, Tutt

If Libba and Cooney are ready to come back in, they do too. Not sure who else I'd consider dropping, but there are a few options.

[bornadog]

Out: Grant, Hill
In: Dahlhaus, Tutt

If Libba and Cooney are ready to come back in, they do too. Not sure who else I'd consider dropping, but there are a few options.

Cooney said he will be back next week.

[Greystache]

Out- Grant, Wallis, Hill,
In- Cooney, Dahlhaus, Libba

If Hargrave suspended- in Schofield.

[bornadog]

Out- Grant, Wallis, Hill,
In- Cooney, Dahlhaus, Libba

If Hargrave suspended- in Schofield.

I agree, but tempted to also drop Jones and bring in Vez. Leave Lake at FF and Mulligan and Williams in the backline.

[comrade]

I agree, but tempted to also drop Jones and bring in Vez. Leave Lake at FF and Mulligan and Williams in the backline.

Jones' development as a key forward should not be compromised by Lake's incompetence in defence.

Either Lake can play as a key defender, or he shouldn't play at all.

[Greystache]

I agree, but tempted to also drop Jones and bring in Vez.

Jones isn't getting enough of the ball, but when he is he's showing a lot. IMO we should play him deeper and look to direct the ball through him, he's not finding enough of the ball himself so we should find him, he could be just about the best contested mark in the AFL in 2-3 years time. We don't have much left to play for this year, and he could be a positive in a really bad year.

[bornadog]

Jones' development as a key forward should not be compromised by Lake's incompetence in defence.

Either Lake can play as a key defender, or he shouldn't play at all.

I can't agree with that statement?

Jones had 5 touches last week and 4 this week. He needs to regain some confidence at Willi.

We know what Lake is capable of and we need to keep playing him. A stint at FF would be good for his confidence.

[G-Mo77]

Jones' development as a key forward should not be compromised by Lake's incompetence in defence.

Either Lake can play as a key defender, or he shouldn't play at all.

100% agree with that. He looks shot, if only I could find a Delorean and send him to Hawthorn or Carlton. 3 goals in junk time is nothing to brag about.

Jones is a player who will be long after Lake is gone which is hopefully more sooner than later. Show faith in him and let him develop. Sending him to Willy will do nothing for his development at all. I'm surprised to hear his name mentioned in this thread.

[LostDoggy]

Calls for Boyd being out are ridiculous. I know he isn't the perfect player but he is the least of our concerns.

Rocco, I agree that dropping him is a ridiculous assumption, however today was not the first match that he has kicked the ball directly to an opponent (on several occasions too).
He has been doing this for the past few years.

[Rocco Jones]

On Liam Jones- I would do what's best for his development. I would only drop him if it would help his confidence to get more of it at Willy. If it's best for his development to play AFL footy than I don't really mind the likely short term sacrifice.

[boydogs]

On Liam Jones- I would do what's best for his development. I would only drop him if it would help his confidence to get more of it at Willy. If it's best for his development to play AFL footy than I don't really mind the likely short term sacrifice.

I think the best thing would be to field a side that has a red hot crack and a chance of winning. Going out there and getting beaten by 10 goals every week is no way to develop new players.

I like the idea of Lake forward, not having to worry about shadowing an opponent whilst he gets his touch back

[Bulldog Joe]

Well Grant and Hill are MUST outs.

Boyd is a concern. It is not only the regularity that he is kicking straight to opposition, he is struggling with his ball handling. On at least 2 occasions he received the tap from Minson and just fumbled it, allowing the clearance that he should have clearly taken, to go Geelong's way.

This is now becoming a regular concern as it also occurred the previous week against Hawthorn.

I think Jones needs to go back to Williamstown and just get a bit of ball. He has good hands but needs to get it more often. That is not going to happen in the senior side with our poor possession rate and substandard delivery.

[Jasper]

Well Grant and Hill are MUST outs.

Boyd is a concern. It is not only the regularity that he is kicking straight to opposition, he is struggling with his ball handling. On at least 2 occasions he received the tap from Minson and just fumbled it, allowing the clearance that he should have clearly taken, to go Geelong's way.

This is now becoming a regular concern as it also occurred the previous week against Hawthorn.

I think Jones needs to go back to Williamstown and just get a bit of ball. He has good hands but needs to get it more often. That is not going to happen in the senior side with our poor possession rate and substandard delivery.

Its interesting with Boyd, I'll fess up I wanted him traded last year and apparently was the only Bulldogs supporter wanting this, so yeah I think he can be replaced. Would you rather Boyd get 25 his opponent 30, and of Boyd's 25, 6 or 7 are clangers resulting in the opposition getting shots at goal?? Or would you rather Libba get 15 clean possessions and he locks down on his opponent. Or even Addison gets ten possies (with 5 clangers) and his opponent is shut down? The point is moot as I sincerely doubt Eade will drop Boyd. One thing I will say is that if the captain is dropped, what message is sent to everyone else? You would hope that non-performance (specifically regular unpressured turnovers) by anyone is unacceptable.

Does anyone imagine opposition teams in their planning sessions saying 'gee we need to lock down on Boyd he will cut us up if gets loose'? Does anyone remember an opposition supporter saying, 'gee Boyd is killing us'?


Jones is interesting, he always looks good when he gets near it and he is the only player on our list at the moment who looks like taking a contested or pack mark. He also contests okay when the ball hits the deck. His disposal is dodgy. My question is why doesn't he get near it often? I reckon Jones offers something no-one else does at present and should stay in.

[chef]

In
Roughead Cooney Stack Tutt Vez Dahlhaus
Out
Jones Cross Hargrave Hill Grant Higgins

Hopefully we can keep rotating the kids through and work out who's worth keeping and who needs to be chopped.

[Grantysghost]

Calls for Boyd being out are ridiculous. I know he isn't the perfect player but he is the least of our concerns.

Totally agree with this, cant see how we would be better with Boyd out of the side. He generates most of our drive from the middle especially without Cooney.

Hill is done, he cant find a niche forward or back unfortunately and i think he has had his chance now and should remain at Williamstown.
Sherman has never really excelled other than 2 games v Fremantle and Collingwood where he kicked 7, he needs a spell.
Bring in Ves for a run looked ok at Willy, bit worried about his defensive pressure though but we need to see what he's got. Addison in to add some grunt. Could play on a Milne, or as a defensive forward on Goddard/Fisher/Gilbert.

Out : Hill, Sherman
In : Veszpremi, Addison

[Hotdog60]

Boyd is a interesting one, can get plenty of the ball but what he does with it stops him from being a superstar.
Can confidence play such a big part in a players disposal or lack of awareness, at one stage yesterday Boyd got the ball was clear with little pressure and with two guys calling for at centrehalf forward with would have resulted in a unpressured shot at goal he proceeded to drill a pass to a one on three on the flank which result in the turnover and Geelong taking down field.

Rocket had mentioned something about communication, is it a lack of talk to help players find better options, is it when player work to make position and are over looked that causes them to stop presenting, hence the work rate drops off.

I see from my limited view on the small screen that players do present in the corridor yet we fail to spot them up, is it an instruction to go wide or is it a lack of confidence to hit the player in the middle for a fear of turning the ball over.

Sometimes I feel we need to take the risk to make things happen.

[LongWait]

Jones must continue to be played. He doesn't get a lot of the ball in part because his team mates refuse to kick it to him and when they do it is usually not to advantage. Jones' possession count would have been at least doubled and maybe tripled yesterday had he been playing for Geelong.

Boyds' selection as captain was simply stunning in its' stupidity. Yesterday the reasons why Boyd was the wrong choice were clearly on display. If you talk the talk you must be able to walk the talk. Boyd can do the former but not the latter. Ill-disiplined and lacking intent in every defensive aspect of the game. Absolutely diabolical decision-making and disposal efficiency. Racks up posessions and gets a fair bit of hard ball but these attributes (plus having the best steely gaze in the team) do not a captain make.

I hate potting players and don't want to see Boyd humilliated by being dropped to Willi but I really hope the MC at the end of the season realise that Boyd is not part of the solution for us and certainly should not be captain next year.

[LostDoggy]

Though Boyd may be spraying his kicks, he is one the few that actually get the ball. Same goes for Hargrave.

[Ghost Dog]

Jones must continue to be played. He doesn't get a lot of the ball in part because his team mates refuse to kick it to him and when they do it is usually not to advantage. Jones' possession count would have been at least doubled and maybe tripled yesterday had he been playing for Geelong.

Boyds' selection as captain was simply stunning in its' stupidity. Yesterday the reasons why Boyd was the wrong choice were clearly on display. If you talk the talk you must be able to walk the talk. Boyd can do the former but not the latter. Ill-disiplined and lacking intent in every defensive aspect of the game. Absolutely diabolical decision-making and disposal efficiency. Racks up posessions and gets a fair bit of hard ball but these attributes (plus having the best steely gaze in the team) do not a captain make.

I hate potting players and don't want to see Boyd humilliated by being dropped to Willi but I really hope the MC at the end of the season realise that Boyd is not part of the solution for us and certainly should not be captain next year.

I've wanted to post a few times about Boyd, but stopped myself. Might have to wait a few days for this funk to wear off, so can be a bit level headed. In short, his performance is confirming my view that Morris should have been captain.
You know more about your leaders during a drubbing like that than you often do during a win. Who stood up for us yesterday? Morris, Griff, Picken, Gia Will had a crack and a few younger players. Out of these, Morris and Griff are the most reliable and Griff doesn't want to be captain.,

[Rocco Jones]

Though Boyd may be spraying his kicks, he is one the few that actually get the ball. Same goes for Hargrave.

That's right.

I think this board has a culture of smashing guys due to higher expectations, especially Boyd and Cross.

Sure, their disposal isn't great but what's easily forgotten is how hard they work to earn it. I never a fan of turning over the ball but I find it a lot more tolerable when a player has actually earned the disposal beforehand.

When it comes to his defensive work, well how much is that Boyd's fault? You would assume you would only give the captaincy to a player who does not consistency ignore core instructions. Boyd has had the lack of defensive pressure on his 'opponent' label put on him for awhile, if this is true and a real issue, Eade and co. don't look great there. I'm actually not trying to smash Eade there because as I've been saying, I think Boyd's deficiencies are overrated here.

[Ghost Dog]

Out: Hill, Grant, Shaggy (if suspended)
In: Cooney, Dahlhaus, Vez (if Shaggy/Cooney aren't available), Barlow (if Shaggy and Cooney are out)

Calls for Boyd being out are ridiculous. I know he isn't the perfect player but he is the least of our concerns.

Why not? Cross and Boyd rack up possessions but they butcher half of them. Their possession count shields them from criticism that's just part of the game. You cannot have players who can't kick in the modern game. Watching Cross panic, standing on the 50m line during the second quarter I think, unable to know what to do as he couldn't have a shot on goal was depressing. We cannot progress unless we have a better midfield or a better performing midfield.

[Rocco Jones]

I've wanted to post a few times about Boyd, but stopped myself. Might have to wait a few days for this funk to wear off, so can be a bit level headed. In short, his performance is confirming my view that Morris should have been captain.
You know more about your leaders during a drubbing like that than you often do during a win. Who stood up for us yesterday? Morris, Griff, Picken, Gia Will had a crack and a few younger players. Out of these, Morris and Griff are the most reliable and Griff doesn't want to be captain.,

I want/wanted Morris but he seems a bit of an introvert.

My main issue with Boyd isn't his disposal as I think that's largely out of his control (could try to not kill worms at times though), it's his 'accountability. Thing is, he has been doing it for awhile (at least according to WOOF critics) but it surely isn't a core issue with Eade and co. otherwise why would they pick him as captain?

[Rocco Jones]

Why not? Cross and Boyd rack up possessions but they butcher half of them. Their possession count shields them from criticism that's just part of the game. You cannot have players who can't kick in the modern game. Watching Cross panic, standing on the 50m line during the second quarter I think, unable to know what to do as he couldn't have a shot on goal was depressing. We cannot progress unless we have a better midfield or a better performing midfield.

You also need to win the ball in the traditional, modern and post modern game.

Dropping Boyd in pursuit of a 'better' midfield reeks of misplaced aspiration that is in reality utter desperation. Over the last couple of weeks, Eade has gone down the path of dropping a senior player or two and introducing a debutant. I think he has handled it very well. Our fans keep demanding we clear the decks and bring in the kids. It has to be gradual, one in, one out per week is actually quite rapid really. The worst thing to do with the development of youth is never playing them. The next worst thing is playing too many of them.

Boyd reminds me of a wasteful millionaire. At the end of the day he earns it himself and will still have more dough than a frugal pauper (our next best option!). Whatever your thoughts of Boyd, he goes when it's his turn, wins it for his team mates and gives us a physical presence in the engine room.

[Maddog37]

Drop one of Cross or Boyd and make the other a tagger seems where we need to be. In Libba.

Not sure on Jones. He seemed to handle being dropped well in the past. Maybe swap for Roughy.

Hill and Grant out for Cooney and Tutt/Vez/Dollhouse.

Maybe they brought in Mulligan with an eye for Revolt this week......

[Greystache]

I want/wanted Morris but he seems a bit of an introvert.

My main issue with Boyd isn't his disposal as I think that's largely out of his control (could try to not kill worms at times though), it's his 'accountability. Thing is, he has been doing it for awhile (at least according to WOOF critics) but it surely isn't a core issue with Eade and co. otherwise why would they pick him as captain?

It's something a few of us have been disussing for a while. Surely his instructions can't be to just go out and get 30 possessions of varying quality and don't worry about your opponent, even if he gets 38 and kicks 3 goals. I don't believe an experienced coach would be that short sighted, so he must be going against instructions. Eade mentions after nearly every loss that we lost the game because either a) players didn't execute well, or b) players didn't follow instructions. Either way no one ever seems held accountable.

Personally I believe Boyd goes against instructions, so then I can't fathom why we continually ply him with individual awards, and now the captaincy. I think the heart of the problem is that Eade is an attack focussed coach first, second, and third, and defence is something you focus on once everything else is working well. Players like Boyd know that as long as they're racking up offensive stats then their defensive shortcomings will be overlooked. It's created a culture in the team that defensive pressure is the responsibilities of the less established players, and guys like Boyd, Higgins, Cross, Gia,and Hall can pick and choose their level of application.

[Ghost Dog]

I want/wanted Morris but he seems a bit of an introvert.

My main issue with Boyd isn't his disposal as I think that's largely out of his control (could try to not kill worms at times though), it's his 'accountability. Thing is, he has been doing it for awhile (at least according to WOOF critics) but it surely isn't a core issue with Eade and co. otherwise why would they pick him as captain?

I think they felt he was a safe bet. .
He's very far from being our number 1 player. You need your captain to be right up there in your top 3 -4 playing group. Voss, Buckley, Brown.
Make him a sub for a whille to send a message?

[Ghost Dog]

It's something a few of us have been disussing for a while. Surely his instructions can't be to just go out and get 30 possessions of varying quality and don't worry about your opponent, even if he gets 38 and kicks 3 goals. I don't believe an experienced coach would be that short sighted, so he must be going against instructions. Eade mentions after nearly every loss that we lost the game because either a) players didn't execute well, or b) players didn't follow instructions. Either way no one ever seems held accountable.

Personally I believe Boyd goes against instructions, so then I can't fathom why we continually ply him with individual awards, and now the captaincy. I think the heart of the problem is that Eade is an attack focussed coach first, second, and third, and defence is something you focus on once everything else is working well. Players like Boyd know that as long as they're racking up offensive stats then their defensive shortcomings will be overlooked. It's created a culture in the team that defensive pressure is the responsibilities of the less established players, and guys like Boyd, Higgins, Cross, Gia,and Hall can pick and choose their level of application.

This is really well put.

[Rocco Jones]

I am not trying to actually attack Boyd or Eade but surely Eade cannot have a big issue with Boyd's style. He must be following his directions at least decently if he has the captaincy. Surely there is no way that you would hand the captaincy to someone who blatantly ignores a core instruction? I don't have an enormous issue with it, just putting it out there for those who seem to think Boyd is at the heart of our problems (which I definitely don't). Boyd's lack of attention towards his opponent is hardly a new phenomenon.

Once again, I think Boyd is too harshly rated. Seems like a lot of fans put him up against the truly elite midfielders and are disappointed whenever he falls short.

[Rocco Jones]

Personally I believe Boyd goes against instructions, so then I can't fathom why we continually ply him with individual awards, and now the captaincy. I think the heart of the problem is that Eade is an attack focussed coach first, second, and third, and defence is something you focus on once everything else is working well. Players like Boyd know that as long as they're racking up offensive stats then their defensive shortcomings will be overlooked. It's created a culture in the team that defensive pressure is the responsibilities of the less established players, and guys like Boyd, Higgins, Cross, Gia,and Hall can pick and choose their level of application.

I agree with this.

Of course Eade rates defensive pressure but it seems like it isn't a core issue (apologies for the political parlance). It's either that or they just continually ignore instructions, whichever one does not bode well for Eade.

[LostDoggy]

I want/wanted Morris but he seems a bit of an introvert.


Morris was in control of the team huddle before the game , giving the team a rev up and supporting Mulligan's call up , he has been a rock of support and the strong voice for the younger players the last 4 games , to the younger players he is like the older miner holding up the roof of the tunnel so they can get out first

.

[Ghost Dog]

You also need to win the ball in the traditional, modern and post modern game.

Dropping Boyd in pursuit of a 'better' midfield reeks of misplaced aspiration that is in reality utter desperation. Over the last couple of weeks, Eade has gone down the path of dropping a senior player or two and introducing a debutant. I think he has handled it very well. Our fans keep demanding we clear the decks and bring in the kids. It has to be gradual, one in, one out per week is actually quite rapid really. The worst thing to do with the development of youth is never playing them. The next worst thing is playing too many of them.

Boyd reminds me of a wasteful millionaire. At the end of the day he earns it himself and will still have more dough than a frugal pauper (our next best option!). Whatever your thoughts of Boyd, he goes when it's his turn, wins it for his team mates and gives us a physical presence in the engine room.

1. It's not about dropping or not dropping boyd. Its about getting a better or better performing midfield. Boyd or not, turnovers killed us yesterday and we have to solve that. On the track or at selection. No other choices.
2. We are desperate. One more loss and our season is pretty much over.
How many games would you allow Boyd to play where he turns the ball over like he did yesterday? 2, 4, 5? how many games where he lets his direct opponent run free? 2,4,5?
more? Because he is captain, he'll never be dropped or made a sub, whatever.
Sure, he can turn it around. But it may be too late for this season.

[Ghost Dog]

I am not trying to actually attack Boyd or Eade but surely Eade cannot have a big issue with Boyd's style. He must be following his directions at least decently if he has the captaincy. Surely there is no way that you would hand the captaincy to someone who blatantly ignores a core instruction? I don't have an enormous issue with it, just putting it out there for those who seem to think Boyd is at the heart of our problems (which I definitely don't). Boyd's lack of attention towards his opponent is hardly a new phenomenon.

Once again, I think Boyd is too harshly rated. Seems like a lot of fans put him up against the truly elite midfielders and are disappointed whenever he falls short.

Sorry, but if he's your captain, he is the 'heart' of our club. If the coach won't make him direct the attention to his opponent or won't do it himself, what example are younger players supposed to follow?
I can't see him being dropped - just have to suck it in for a year. excuse my rant

For next week, a smaller foward line with Sherman, DJ,
Tom to go down back.
Grant, Hill out. Schofield, Howard to get another run

[Rocco Jones]

Morris was in control of the team huddle before the game , giving the team a rev up and supporting Mulligan's call up , he has been a rock of support and the strong voice for the younger players the last 4 games , to the younger players he is like the older miner holding up the roof of the tunnel so they can get out first .

I agree. As I said, I wanted and still want him as our captain. I just noted him being an introvert as a reason for not getting the nod. Even if he is an introvert socially or whatever, he has a voice where it matters.

[GVGjr]

I'd be looking at the following type of side against the Saints

Backs
Schofield - Morris - Wood
Murphy - Williams - Sherman

Centres
Cooney - Picken - Griffen
Minson - Ward - Boyd

Forwards
Higgins - Cross - Giansiracusa
Djerrkura - Lake - Veszpremi

Interchange
Libertore - Wallis - Mulligan - Howard

Outs - Hargrave (only if suspended) Grant, Jones and Hill.

- Djerrkura and Veszpremi to be very defensive minded and not allow the last line of defense to just chip it out wide and start the Saints running with the ball.
- Mulligan to provide relief in the ruck and to spend some time in the back line if they go tall.
I'm happy for him to be used forward even though he doesn't have a lot of experience there.
- Schofield to stay with Milne even if he is getting well beaten.
- Murphy, Sherman, Griffen and Cooney to provide as much outside running as they can.

It's a small line-up so we must out run them.

[bornadog]

I'd be looking at the following type of side against the Saints

Backs
Schofield - Morris - Wood
Murphy - Williams - Sherman

Centres
Cooney - Picken - Griffen
Minson - Ward - Boyd

Forwards
Higgins - Cross - Giansiracusa
Djerrkura - Lake - Veszpremi

Interchange
Libertore - Wallis - Mulligan - Howard

Outs - Hargrave (only if suspended) Grant, Jones and Hill.

- Djerrkura and Veszpremi to be very defensive minded and not allow the last line of defense to just chip it out wide and start the Saints running with the ball.
- Mulligan to provide relief in the ruck and to spend some time in the back line if they go tall.
I'm happy for him to be used forward even though he doesn't have a lot of experience there.
- Schofield to stay with Milne even if he is getting well beaten.
- Murphy, Sherman, Griffen and Cooney to provide as much outside running as they can.

It's a small line-up so we must out run them.

I like your team. What happens if Hargrave isnot suspended, does that mean schofield won't be in?. I think he will get a reprimand as the impact won't be deemed severe.

[Rocco Jones]

I like it GVG. Would love to fit in Dahlhaus but perhaps the following week is a better time to give him his debut.

I was pro Williams getting a go as our 2nd ruck last week but if nothing else, he is OHS risk to himself in the ruck. I am literally worried about his physical wellbeing every time he is in a ruck contest. Definitely with you on Mulligan having a spell there.

[GVGjr]

I like your team. What happens if Hargrave isnot suspended, does that mean schofield won't be in?. I think he will get a reprimand as the impact won't be deemed severe.

Yes, Hargrave would stay in the side at Schofields' expense.

[GVGjr]

I was pro Williams getting a go as our 2nd ruck last week but if nothing else, he is OHS risk to himself in the ruck. I am literally worried about his physical wellbeing every time he is in a ruck contest. Definitely with you on Mulligan having a spell there.

I just can't fathom the logic in using Williams as a ruckman. Hopefully we won't plan on him being used as the 2nd again.

[Rocco Jones]

I just can't fathom the logic in using Williams as a ruckman. Hopefully we won't plan on him being used as the 2nd again.

I gotta give it to Williams, for all his weaknesses he does put his body on the line for the cause. His physical commitment + his 'ruck IQ'= scary.

Barlow anyone?

[comrade]

Barlow anyone?

Yep!

I think we need to make a decision on Lake. He's not a long term option at full forward, and playing him there is just denying Jones opportunities - he IS a long term prospect.

If Lake can't offer us anything as a key defender, I wouldn't play him at all. That opens up a spot for Barlow, who can also move back and forward where required and allows Williams to settle into a defined defensive role that we've invested in for the last 5 years. Why risk it now by throwing him into the ruck?

My team for next week..

B: Schofield Mulligan Morris
HB: Wood Williams Murphy
C: Ward Liberatore Griffen
HF: Sherman Barlow Cross
F: Gia Jones Djerkurra
R: Minson Cooney Boyd
I: Picken Wallis Howard
Sub: Higgins

If Sherman struggles, Vez should be given an opportunity. If Barlow struggles, Roughead and Cordy are possible inclusions.

For a team that is struggling so badly, we do have some depth albeit unproven. By depth, I mean we have options that won't be any worse than the incumbent.

[GVGjr]

Barlow anyone?

It's a hard one to make a call on. We know roughly what we will get with Barlow but we also know it will be somewhat limited in the longer term. If we were playing better it would probably be a safer call. I'd wait and see how Mulligan goes.

[Rocco Jones]

Yep!

I think we need to make a decision on Lake. He's not a long term option at full forward, and playing him there is just denying Jones opportunities - he IS a long term prospect.

If Lake can't offer us anything as a key defender, I wouldn't play him at all. That opens up a spot for Barlow, who can also move back and forward where required and allows Williams to settle into a defined defensive role that we've invested in for the last 5 years. Why risk it now by throwing him into the ruck?


I definitely agree with you that we need to do what's best long term for Jones but could that mean sending him back to Willy for confidence reasons? Whatever it is, I'm all for it.

What I am thinking in regards to Lake is what perhaps playing him forward will give him much needed confidence and then we can switch him back to his key defender role. I think dropping him would be hard on his confidence and he can fit into the same forward like as Jones with Hall missing. Jones + Lake + resting ruck isn't too top heavy, especially when you consider we have the freedom to rotate them using TOG/bench. Jones + Lake = 80% TOG up forward with 2nd ruck spending say 50% TOG forward. It should mean we can just have two of them up forward for the vast majority of game time.

[LostDoggy]

If Jones, grant and hall aren't gonna play then I would bring back Roughead. At least he is a tall that can a mark in f50 and a half decent ruck.

[Rocco Jones]

It's a hard one to make a call on. We know roughly what we will get with Barlow but we also know it will be somewhat limited in the longer term. If we were playing better it would probably be a safer call. I'd wait and see how Mulligan goes.

I get what you're saying (and probably flat out agree) but Barlow is still young. Perhaps he can be our Leigh Brown. I think we should give him a go soon. I do get/agree with you on Mulligan though.

[GVGjr]

I get what you're saying (and probably flat out agree) but Barlow is still young. Perhaps he can be our Leigh Brown. I think we should give him a go soon. I do get/agree with you on Mulligan though.

He hasn't displayed a crash and bash mentality in the games I have seen so the Leigh Brown comparisons probably aren't right. At best he is a tall midfielder and spare parts type player and other than his versatility I'm not sure what his strength is as a player.

As you would also be aware, when we went into the game against Essendon and everyone was talking up the one ruckman option my preference was to slot Barlow in as support so I think we have the same thought process.

Against the Saints though, I'm prepared to stick with just Mulligan as Minson's support and to see where that goes.

Barlow is probably a safe bet but do we need to go down that road?

[comrade]

Barlow is probably a safe bet but do we need to go down that road?

I'm not sure picking a Sydney reject tall utility to support Minson as a second ruckman is taking the safe option.

If anything, it will get howled down by your average Bulldog supporter.

[Rocco Jones]

He hasn't displayed a crash and bash mentality in the games I have seen so the Leigh Brown comparisons probably aren't right. At best he is a tall midfielder and spare parts type player and other than his versatility I'm not sure what his strength is as a player.


I agree with most of that and was going to/should have qualified my comments by saying not the same type as Brown. While I don't think they are the same type of player, I think both are similar in the way they suit the modern 2nd ruck role due to their versatility. I also believe Brown has come along way when it comes to that crash and bash mentality since he has played in the 2nd ruck role. Before that, I thought he was well and truly a 'looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane' type.

[GVGjr]

I'm not sure picking a Sydney reject tall utility to support Minson as a second ruckman is taking the safe option.

If anything, it will get howled down by your average Bulldog supporter.

The safe option for the team rather as opposed to supporter sentiment is where I'm coming from.
I'm not against promoting him, just not this week against the Saints because we went with Mulligan and we now need to give him a chance.
I suppose I'm sticking with Lake rather than Barlow.

Would Markovic be a better option than Barlow?

[GVGjr]

What should we do with Liam Jones?

We know he has talent and we also know how important it is to give him as many games as we can but from my POV given how little he has touched the ball in the last 2 weeks I think we need consider getting him back into Williamstown where he can regain some confidence and form.

Is there any advantage to the player just to stick with him in the seniors?

[Rocco Jones]

What should we do with Liam Jones?

We know he has talent and we also know how important it is to give him as many games as we can but from my POV given how little he has touched the ball in the last 2 weeks I think we need consider getting him back into Williamstown where he can regain some confidence and form.

Is there any advantage to the player just to stick with him in the seniors?

I've been thinking/posting the same.

Whatever we do, it has to be about his development. I agree with your sentiments that playing AFL isn't automatically best for your development. It's a bit catch 22 for a player who doesn't seem to naturally ooze confidence. Keep him in and his confidence decreases due to not getting it, drop him and his confidence dips for obvious reasons.

[boydogs]

I think we need to make a decision on Lake. He's not a long term option at full forward, and playing him there is just denying Jones opportunities - he IS a long term prospect.

I think playing forward is a way back for Lake, to help him regain his touch. We need him firing if we're going to make finals.

We still have North, Port, Adelaide, Melbourne & St Kilda outside the 8 that we haven't played yet - remember we beat Richmond by over 5 goals just 3 weeks ago, playing top 4 sides and a Perth trip has made us look worse than we are IMO. I haven't given up on September yet.

Give Lake 3 or 4 games up forward where he can dictate his movements and get into the game. Jones is probably ahead of Grant at the moment, so if either Roughead or Hall is out he can probably still snag a spot.


How many games would you allow Boyd to play where he turns the ball over like he did yesterday?

Anyone else notice a correlation between an over-attacking Boyd, and an underdone or missing Cooney?

In all the Boyd talk, no-one seems to have mentioned that he is trying to fill an outside midfielders role for the team in lieu of other options - this is the part of his game that is letting him down, if he had other options for delivering forward I'm sure he would use them.

I think Cooney is the most important player to our structure - Morris can do a job if required when Lake is out, as he has the last few weeks, but Boyd stepping in to Cooney's shoes doesn't work.

This is why we always seem to look better with Gia in the middle when Cooney is missing. If Cooney isn't back this week, Gia needs to be the one delivering forward for us.

[comrade]

What should we do with Liam Jones?

We know he has talent and we also know how important it is to give him as many games as we can but from my POV given how little he has touched the ball in the last 2 weeks I think we need consider getting him back into Williamstown where he can regain some confidence and form.

Is there any advantage to the player just to stick with him in the seniors?

I think we need to persist with him. Getting dropped from an underperforming team could have a detrimental effect on his confidence, and if he does get some touch at Willy, how will that translate at the highest level. Our midfield is getting destroyed and our delivery into the 50 (when we do somehow win possession) is sub par. Lockett would struggle to get a kick in our team.

Having Lake and Hall limp through for the rest of the year as our key forwards, while Jones and Grant play at Willy isn't what I hope to see.

[LostDoggy]

In- Montgomery
Out-Eade

[comrade]

In- Montgomery
Out-Eade

:rolleyes:

As a courtesy, do you care to justify why you think Montgomery would make a better senior coach than Eade or would you prefer to just make a rash, overly emotional statement?

[LostDoggy]

Though Boyd may be spraying his kicks, he is one the few that actually get the ball. Same goes for Hargrave.

But there is no point in getting the ball if you are going to kick it to the opposition though.

[Jasper]

Isn't Barlow known as a butcher of the ball? Isn't his decision making suspect? Why bring in a bloke with deficiencies in the very area we are struggling in? It doesn't make sense. I agree Williams may get killed if we play him in the ruck, so possibly Roughead needs to come back or Mulligan is used. Does Barlowe even play ruck?

I don't believe Jones was anywhere near our worst yesterday, and I still don't see anyone being a better contested mark than him from what I've seen. What needs to be looked at is our set up and why Jones doesn't get a look often enough. Keep playing him.

I actually think Lake has to play forward (if he is fit), it may help the team and take the load off Jones. Sanderson on SEN indicated Lake was giving their backs trouble (don't know if he was just being polite). Williams fwd is no good, he looks even more uncomfortable than Jones, Lake and Grant (anyone see a pattern) when having a set shot.

If Gia had any real pace, endurance or body strength I would play him midfield but he doesn't so he can't. While he played well on the weekend, we need to play him within his limitations.

You would think the realistic outs are:

Grant and Hill (and I am wavering on Lake) - Grant should not play for some time - Hill never again

The ins really depend on fitness of Cooney and Libba. We are at a point where we may need some stability, five or six changes a week aren't going to help us. I also see little point going back on the merry go round ie Stack in for Hill. The ins, well preferably players who can kick, and if not Libba and Cooney, well hopefully maybe one new player, like Vez, Dollhouse, Schofield, etc. I am not sure about Gilbee, he is a good kick, he can defend, but he hasn't been playing overly well...But he is a better user than Hargrave...??

I give up, I think we are shuffling deck chairs on the titanic.

[LostDoggy]

But there is no point in getting the ball if you are going to kick it to the opposition though.
? Just let the opposition have it.
Easier to fix disposal than inability to get the ball then dispose it. We had 17 players with less than 10 kicks yesterday yet people want to drop a player that get over 20 often.

[bornadog]

I don't believe Jones was anywhere near our worst yesterday,.

4 miserable disposals, Grant 2 - yeah you are right Jones wasn't our worse player.

I can see that Jones is our future but how long can you carry a player. He needs to get his hands on the ball and at the moment he will only do that at Willi.

[Jasper]

? Just let the opposition have it.
Easier to fix disposal than inability to get the ball then dispose it. We had 17 players with less than 10 kicks yesterday yet people want to drop a player that get over 20 even yesterday.

If its so easy to fix disposal, why haven't two of the most dedicated trainers in the league in Cross and Boyd fixed their disposal?

[Jasper]

4 miserable disposals, Grant 2 - yeah you are right Jones wasn't our worse player.

I can see that Jones is our future but how long can you carry a player. He needs to get his hands on the ball and at the moment he will only do that at Willi.

Its interesting how we all see things differently, like you seem to like Stack's work and I can't tolerate him. Jones' four disposals, I think were contested marks against the odds, and he appeared to contest. I reckon Lake and Boyd hurt the team more than Jones yesterday, and I reckon Hill and Grant were both significantly worse than Jones. Stats I guess sometimes don't give you the whole story.

[LostDoggy]

? Just let the opposition have it.

I know what you mean Chops but I find it astounding that we applaud Boyd and Cross for getting a zillion possessions but they regularly turn it over.

[bornadog]

Its interesting how we all see things differently, like you seem to like Stack's work and I can't tolerate him. Jones' four disposals, I think were contested marks against the odds, and he appeared to contest. I reckon Lake and Boyd hurt the team more than Jones yesterday, and I reckon Hill and Grant were both significantly worse than Jones. Stats I guess sometimes don't give you the whole story.

If your satisfied with 4 disposals for a player then so be it. My outs are in fact Jones Hill and Grant. Total disposals between them 10, one stat that is telling.

[LongWait]

I'm not sure picking a Sydney reject tall utility to support Minson as a second ruckman is taking the safe option.

If anything, it will get howled down by your average Bulldog supporter.

Did Eade not say after the Essendon game that playing one ruckman was a mistake we won't make again. What did we do yesterday?

Surely either Hudson or Roughead needs to play with Minson? Roughead for mine - perservere with the younger players and get valuable game time into them. Roughead and Minson should be an ideal ruck combination but they need to play lots of consecutive games together this year in the seniors.

[Jasper]

If your satisfied with 4 disposals for a player then so be it. My outs are in fact Jones Hill and Grant. Total disposals between them 10, one stat that is telling.

Mate don't get me wrong, I was only satisfied with about 5-6 players' performance - Jones wasn't one of them. I just don't think he was our worst, and I also think he is our best KPP contested marking option at present (the other options being Hall - injured, Williams - can't kick, Grant - doesn't appear to try).

And since you like stats so much try this one. Jones' 3 contested marks equalled the contested marks for the rest of the entire team. That is right 3 contested marks between the other 21 players. Why would you drop the bloke who is getting as many contested marks as the rest of the team???

[LongWait]

If your satisfied with 4 disposals for a player then so be it. My outs are in fact Jones Hill and Grant. Total disposals between them 10, one stat that is telling.

The old guard won't kick it to Jones when often they should.

[comrade]

Did Eade not say after the Essendon game that playing one ruckman was a mistake we won't make again. What did we do yesterday?

Surely either Hudson or Roughead needs to play with Minson? Roughead for mine - perservere with the younger players and get valuable game time into them. Roughead and Minson should be an ideal ruck combination but they need to play lots of consecutive games together this year in the seniors.

If we do decide to go with two ruckman, it needs to be Roughead.

[GVGjr]

Did Eade not say after the Essendon game that playing one ruckman was a mistake we won't make again. What did we do yesterday?



In the context of what he was saying I think he meant it was a mistake of having one recognised ruckman going against 2.
Against StKilda they have McEvoy and a spare parts player so to me there is some merit if we look at a similar structure.

Why did we do it yesterday? I'm guessing we didn't think Vardy would offer that much support.

[Hotdog60]

With Jones development would it be worthwhile to get a tutor in to help with his progress, he's a player that is more for the contested mark rather than a lead up player.(unless thats because delivery dedicates this).

I wonder if Wayne Carey could spare a couple of hours a week.

[Jasper]

With Jones development would it be worthwhile to get a tutor in to help with his progress, he's a player that is more for the contested mark rather than a lead up player.(unless thats because delivery dedicates this).

I wonder if Wayne Carey could spare a couple of hours a week.

Given our efficiency for the last five rounds is the worst in the league you would think this would be a factor. Wayne may be fantastic, but surely C Grant might be able to help him out??

[Rocco Jones]

With Jones development would it be worthwhile to get a tutor in to help with his progress, he's a player that is more for the contested mark rather than a lead up player.(unless thats because delivery dedicates this).

I wonder if Wayne Carey could spare a couple of hours a week.

Chris Grant was doing some work with the younger talls last year (and/or the year before). Is he still being utilised?

[Hotdog60]

Given our efficiency for the last five rounds is the worst in the league you would think this would be a factor. Wayne may be fantastic, but surely C Grant might be able to help him out??

I did think of Chris but for some reason I thought Carey was more of a similar mold. Crash the pack type.

[Jasper]

I did think of Chris but for some reason I thought Carey was more of a similar mold. Crash the pack type.

Maybe - Carey also ran backwards a lot to mark, both players were courageous and could take contested marks. I know who I'd like teaching Jones to kick set shots though.:)

[G-Mo77]

Could Jones pinch hit in the ruck? I've seen him do it at Willy before maybe that's a way to get him involved when the ball doesn't come down there at all. Williams is not the answer and I don't think Hudson coming back gives us that much help either.

Statisticians want to bag him for not getting that many possessions and that's their way of potting him, so be it. I really thought he contested well and took a few good grabs when he got his chance unlike a lot of others who sulked for most of the game. Besides, take him out who do you replace him with? Hall's not ready is there anyone else? Williams? Like it or not Jones is our man in the forward half, invest game time in him and have patience.

[azabob]

Chris Grant was doing some work with the younger talls last year (and/or the year before). Is he still being utilised?

Chris Grant is currently working with everyones new whipping boy Tom Williams.

[G-Mo77]

Chris Grant is currently working with everyones new whipping boy Tom Williams.

He's not the new one, been that way for a while. :)

I don't like the Williams experiment at forward. I thought he got a lucky 2 goals the week before and playing him as a forward was a little desperate. He's had a decent season but the last few weeks we have forgotten he has played his best football in the back half.

I think our back half should start like this, pending direct matchups.

Morris, Mulligan/Markovic, Lake
Wood, Williams, Hargrave

Murphy rotated in and out.

[DOG GOD]

Lake has to play back. He's an AA fullback and for whatever reason his confidence is shot. Why put him fwd to get that confidence back when it wont be in our long term plans (team structure etc). Whatever is wrong with Brian atm is mental, so get a shrink into him to sort this crap out. It seems a little sooky sooky la la to me with Lake at the moment. Against the cats when he gave away free kicks or got outmarked he dropped his head like he was hard done by. HARDEN THE F UP and either play for the jumper, play for ur team mates or go and sook back to Willi.

Out: Hill, Grant
In: Vesp, Libba

[LongWait]

In the context of what he was saying I think he meant it was a mistake of having one recognised ruckman going against 2.
Against StKilda they have McEvoy and a spare parts player so to me there is some merit if we look at a similar structure.

Why did we do it yesterday? I'm guessing we didn't think Vardy would offer that much support.

Vardy is a 198cm ruckman. It seems we didn't rate him at all. Showed us didn't he!

I'm sick of us being out-coached and out-thought at the selection table. We have all the hallmarks of a complacent organisation which didn't see trouble ahead of it and now is making unreasoned, panicked decisions hoping that by some miracle everything will quickly return to normal.

We are a bloody laughing stock.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

In the context of what he was saying I think he meant it was a mistake of having one recognised ruckman going against 2.
Against StKilda they have McEvoy and a spare parts player so to me there is some merit if we look at a similar structure.

Why did we do it yesterday? I'm guessing we didn't think Vardy would offer that much support.

Yes and it's not the first time this year, the coaching staff need to be held to account as we went in with one ruckman and couldn't bur them for pace!

Wake up Rocket!

[SlimPickens]

This is the side i'd like to see this week, I don't think we will make a big statement at selection although Rocket eluded to change. Maybe it is wishful thinking but a line has to be drawn and if you're not prepared to apply the defensive effort required such as Grant and Higgins you're out.

Ins: Dahlhaus Vezspremi Schofield Libba and Cooney
Out: Higgins Hill Grant Jones Hargrave (Suspended)

Morris Mulligan Picken
Wood Williams Schofield
Howard Ward Cross
Vez Murphy Sherman
Gia Lake Dahlhaus

Minson Boyd Griffen

Int: Libba Cooney Wallis DJ

[Sedat]

Boyd reminds me of a wasteful millionaire. At the end of the day he earns it himself and will still have more dough than a frugal pauper (our next best option!). Whatever your thoughts of Boyd, he goes when it's his turn, wins it for his team mates and gives us a physical presence in the engine room.
My big knock on Boyd is that his ambition exceeds his talent. He is not Nahan Buckley and he never will be, so he should stop trying to laser pass every kick to its intended target. I can live with his limitations because he is superb in other facets of the game, but it is frustrating as hell to see him attempt to prove that these limitations don't exist by performing tricks that he is not capable of executing more often than not.

[The Pie Man]

Can't see too many changes this week.

Cooney & Lib for Grant & Hill I'm guessing are obvious.

Tutt & Hooper would be next in line for a debut/recall IMO (Hooper was better than Vez last night, and was an emergency for this weekend's game, while Tutt was Bulldogs listed BOG for mine) but who for is the tricky part. Maybe one to be Wallis, which would be harsh, but playing all of Cross/Lib/Mitch isn't likely. Will be interesting to see if all of Lake/Williams/Jones survive for Friday night. I'd keep playing Jones (and I'd look at promoting Panos soon, depsite playing some recent Willy reserves)

I also wonder if Hudson will win a reprieve at Minson's expense - Ottens physically monstered him.

I'm not looking forward to Friday night :(

[boydogs]

Lake has to play back. He's an AA fullback and for whatever reason his confidence is shot. Why put him fwd to get that confidence back when it wont be in our long term plans (team structure etc).

Because it's much easier to dictate your own movements than follow an opponent around when you are struggling


My big knock on Boyd is that his ambition exceeds his talent. He is not Nahan Buckley and he never will be, so he should stop trying to laser pass every kick to its intended target. I can live with his limitations because he is superb in other facets of the game, but it is frustrating as hell to see him attempt to prove that these limitations don't exist by performing tricks that he is not capable of executing more often than not.

We need Gia or Cooney in the middle so he isn't forced to play the outside mid delivering forward role.

[LostDoggy]

I remember Kingsley Hunter kicking goals in late season junk game and many thought he would make it as a FF afterward. Lake's 3 goals was the same yesterday.

[MrMahatma]

Good thread.

Re: Jones. I think we should keep him in the seniors. Only played a handful of games. He and the rest of the fwd line need to get used to each other, as much as the midfield need to get used to looking for him.

[SlimPickens]

Good thread.

Re: Jones. I think we should keep him in the seniors. Only played a handful of games. He and the rest of the fwd line need to get used to each other, as much as the midfield need to get used to looking for him.

Agree and we need to direct play through him. Maybe kicking to the jumper would be a start, this kid can play and we need to use him.

[bornadog]

now is making unreasoned, panicked decisions hoping that by some miracle everything will quickly return to normal. .

What are these panicked decisions?:confused:

[boydogs]

Good thread.

Re: Jones. I think we should keep him in the seniors. Only played a handful of games. He and the rest of the fwd line need to get used to each other, as much as the midfield need to get used to looking for him.

I would play Hall and Roughead before Jones, but if either is not selected I would be prepared to play 3 talls with Jones, Lake and Hall/Roughead

[Ghost Dog]

I would play Hall and Roughead before Jones, but if either is not selected I would be prepared to play 3 talls with Jones, Lake and Hall/Roughead

We're no longer in contention.
If we can persist with Josh Hill for so long, surely we can give Jones another crack and a chance to learn his trade.
He'll do well against Zzzzzac Dawson in my view.

[boydogs]

We're no longer in contention.

I disagree. Our next 4 games are against sides out of the 8 - if we can't win at least 2, then we are gone. But for now, I don't see a loss in Perth and 2 losses to top 4 sides as a reason to pull up stumps.


If we can persist with Josh Hill for so long, surely we can give Jones another crack and a chance to learn his trade

Hall is our best forward, so if he is right then he's in.
Lake is our best defender and needs to find touch, and the forward line is the best place for him to do that.

After that its Jones or Roughead - both need senior experience, both offer something - I'd probably say it's more important to have a 2nd ruck than permanent 3rd tall up forward, so Roughy gets the nod.

[westbulldog]

Disinterested Grant and Hill must go for quite awhile, not just a week or two back at Willi. They both have talent but don't have the desire nor the menace that defensive forwards need. I would stick with Liam Jones he shows real promise. Cooney hopefully comes in. I would start Brian Lake at FF. Bring Roughhead in to support Minson who I think is doing well. Howard and Mulligan keep their places. Barry Hall, if fit, will be effective on the smaller Etihad stadium.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I think we need to keep playing Jones, but at the same time, I'd understand if they decided to drop him so that he can get a few touches at VFL level. Hasn't had a shot at goal for a few weeks, has he?

In saying that, as long as he's still confident, I'd rather play him.

[chef]

I disagree. Our next 4 games are against sides out of the 8 - if we can't win at least 2, then we are gone. But for now, I don't see a loss in Perth and 2 losses to top 4 sides as a reason to pull up stumps.


So you still think we can win the flag?

[LongWait]

What are these panicked decisions?:confused:

Playing Lake despite his physical condition and head space to start with.

I appreciate that you support the status quo. Don't expect me to blindly follow Eade though - I'm 52 years old and have never seen a Grand Final, let alone a Premiership. To quote Springsteen: "Blind faith in your leaders, or anything, will probably just get you killed."

[Mofra]

I think we need to keep playing Jones, but at the same time, I'd understand if they decided to drop him so that he can get a few touches at VFL level. Hasn't had a shot at goal for a few weeks, has he?

In saying that, as long as he's still confident, I'd rather play him.
I'd keep him in. We only took 6 contested marks against Geelong - Jones had half of them. He chases & provides defensive pressure which is somethign we lack too.

[Ozza]

I think Jones should play every game for the remainder of the year (barring soreness and injury).

Similarly with Liberatore and Wallis.

In my opinion, these three kids WILL be long term AFL players - lets make getting as much experience into them as possible - a priority.

[Topdog]

I remember Kingsley Hunter kicking goals in late season junk game and many thought he would make it as a FF afterward. Lake's 3 goals was the same yesterday.

LOL well said.

Whenever he has gone into the forward line with the game still on the line he has failed to kick goals.

[bornadog]

Playing Lake despite his physical condition and head space to start with.

I appreciate that you support the status quo. Don't expect me to blindly follow Eade though - I'm 52 years old and have never seen a Grand Final, let alone a Premiership. To quote Springsteen: "Blind faith in your leaders, or anything, will probably just get you killed."

Not sure what you mean by supporting the status quo. If you mean after every loss I don't call for the coaches head, then your right. I prefer to have a review at the end of year and then assess who should be the coach. BTW, the last time the dogs were in a GF, I was 5 years old and didn't go to the game.

[chef]

LOL well said.

Whenever he has gone into the forward line with the game still on the line he has failed to kick goals.

I can remember a couple of games last year when he was thrown forward late and kicked goals in tight games that we won.

[bornadog]

I'd keep him in. We only took 6 contested marks against Geelong - Jones had half of them. He chases & provides defensive pressure which is somethign we lack too.


4 disposals, one tackle, 2 turnovers and 3 marks. Last week, 6 disposals.

I think he may be struggling at the minute. If we don't drop him this week and he produces another game like the last two, then he needs to find touch in the VFL.

[The Underdog]

It's a tough one this week.
I think Grant and Hill are definite outs and Hargrave will probably get a week for the hit on Johnson.
Despite his lack of impact I'd like to see Jones stay in and we desperately need Cooney back fit and firing.
I'd like to see Roughhead come in but not sure how that fits with the balance of the side and would like Libba and Wallis to play but not sure we can balance those 2 with Boyd and Cross. Is it sacrilege to think we should give Crossy a spell? He hasn't done anything to really earn it but he's rapidly looking like the type of player we can't afford to fit into the team, particularly if we want to give Libba and Wallis experience.

In: Cooney, Roughead, Liberatore
Out: Grant, Hill, Hargrave (sus)

Might be too top heavy but Roughhead couldn't give us less than Hill and Grant.
Like to see Higgins, Murphy and Williams start back.
Lake to start up forward and if he is as bad as previous weeks then he spends another 2 weeks at VFL level.
I'm glad Riewoldt isn't on peak form.

[LostDoggy]

LOL well said.

Whenever he has gone into the forward line with the game still on the line he has failed to kick goals.

Lake has kicked one goal, one behind twice last year in tight final quarters one against Melbourne and the other against Collingwood.

I don't think he is really an option to play at full forward long term but to help him find confidence it might serve our needs in the short term.

We need to be realistic though, he is not going to turn into a Goal kicking machine over night and boot 7 goals in a dominant four quarter display. But if he chimes in for three or four goals, starts to lead more freely and fly for the ball and throws his weight around then he might be on the way back to form and and the move has served its purpose.

Long term I think the ability to switch him forward in bursts, alternating with a resting ruck (Ayce, Rough or Will) will help him extend his career and his usefulness to the team and will help the team transition over the next two years as Jones adds size and power to his frame.

[Sockeye Salmon]

In: Cooney, Liberatore, Roughead, Dahlhaus
Out: Grant, Hill, Williams, Wallis


Sherman to be the sub. Ideally I would have dropped Sherman and left in Wallis but we have too many inexperienced players in the side as is and I've brought in 3 more.

[G-Mo77]

It's a tough one this week.
I think Grant and Hill are definite outs and Hargrave will probably get a week for the hit on Johnson.
Despite his lack of impact I'd like to see Jones stay in and we desperately need Cooney back fit and firing.
I'd like to see Roughhead come in but not sure how that fits with the balance of the side and would like Libba and Wallis to play but not sure we can balance those 2 with Boyd and Cross. Is it sacrilege to think we should give Crossy a spell? He hasn't done anything to really earn it but he's rapidly looking like the type of player we can't afford to fit into the team, particularly if we want to give Libba and Wallis experience.

In regards to Cross he has played a negating role in quite a few games and has done well. I didn't see or hear that he was tagging anyone on the weekend though.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I'm glad Riewoldt isn't on peak form.

be careful. I have a funny feeling he will torch us this week and we will play him into form. Just the vibe i am getting from the dogs atm....

OUT: Hill, Grant, Wallis (Only because we cannot have Libba, Wallis, Boyd and Cross in the same team)

IN: Cooney, Libba,Dollhouse/Hooper/Vez

Tough decision on who to pick out of Dollhouse/Hooper/Vez. I'm thinking Dollhouse due to his excellent defensive pressure and pace. Hooper and Vez will have better goal sense however. ATM i think defensive pressure and pace are more of a priority so i would go with Dollhouse.

At the end of the day i believe the issues of this season are evident. We are getting scored against so heavily. Not since 2004/05 have we allowed the opposition to score so much. This reflects poor pressure/effort and too many turnovers. It really is a case of going back to basics. Whoever doesn't want to give 4 quarters of effort should be dropped immediatley. At this point i am not too concerned about skill errors. Lets get giving 100% right first. Without the effort nothing else matters

[The Underdog]

be careful. I have a funny feeling he will torch us this week and we will play him into form. Just the vibe i am getting from the dogs atm....



Given Morris looks to be the most in form player to run with him I'd have to agree.
Mulligan will get blown up in a quarter, Lake shouldn't be allowed near him in current form and I don't think Williams confidence in his game is going to be helped by playing on Riewoldt either. Maybe a combo of Williams and Morris.

I'd like to start Easton Wood on Milne just to give him the challenge.

[Sedat]

So you still think we can win the flag?
I get where 'gogriff' is coming from. Our form stinks to high heaven at the moment but we do have 4 'winnable' games in succession coming up, so a win against St Kilda on Friday could kick-start us and provide the springboard for a run of wins - win this Friday and 7-7 is not out of the question. I also understand the logic about not being in flag contention and therefore loading up on youth but I really hate to see the team completely and utterly non-competitive like we were in the last couple of months in 2007. And what did that dip in form get us? Pick 5 (Jarrad Grant) which hasn't been any panacea to future glory by a long stretch. I'm in the 'win as many as we can' camp, so long as we are doing it with an eye firmly focused on the future (which nobody can deny we are doing at present). Our 2nd half of the season was always going to be better than our 1st half, as juniors adjust to the level and older players get a decent bank of match fitness and touch - I hate the idea of writing off a season this early as so much individual and collective improvement can still be achieved in the next 12 weeks.

As much as I hate losing PF's and QF's, I'd much rather be featuring in the September calendar than aimlessly meandering through one smashing after another like we did in 2003-4. A win this Friday is so important on many different levels. It gets a gorilla off our back against a team that has largely toyed with us for almost a decade, it gives a crucial dose of renewed confidence to a coaching and playing group that is currently in a massive short supply of the stuff, and it also provides momentum to a season that is stuck in the mud and not going anywhere at present. Win this Friday and 12-10 is eminently possible, and if that record is the result of significant improvement in our younger brigade, and much improved performance and effort from our senior core, that is a goal worth striving for IMO. The weak way out would be to pull up stumps this early in season 2011 and give several under-performing players an out.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

i think another poor performance this week and the season is shot. This is a season-defining game and if we cant bring that effort and intensity then we never will for 2011 IMO. Whats the best straetgy when you aren't playing for finals? Tough decision. I don't like the idea of just playing kids. We will get smashed every week and the draft picks are going to GWS this year. I think we continue with the revolving door policy as Eade has suggested until we find the players who are prepared to give us consistent effort and intensity. The whole team just looks so shocked/disinterested/unmotivated/lacking in confidence/uncertain thats its worrying. I think part of this is due to the uncertain position of the coach next year. If we are to keep Eade i think it would be good to announce it now so the club and MC have the same goal to work towards. Right now the club looks like it is wondering aimlessly and is a disjointed mess with no cohesion or chemistry

[Doggy]

Some good news.

Shaggy has been offered a reprimand
:):):):):)

[G-Mo77]

Some good news.

Shaggy has been offered a reprimand
:):):):):)

The MRP have taken pity on us. :)

Hope he plays a better game on Friday. Shaggy was horrible Saturday. The highlight of his game was elbowing Johnson in the guts.

[LostDoggy]

out-Lake,Hill,Grant,Wallis
In-Vez,Roughead,cooney,Libba

Lake is struggling mentally & physically & playing him every week is doing him no favours a good long spell at willi would do him good & then only when he is back to the Lake we all know for willi then promote him to senior side.It all comes down to player management now seasons gone! only play 100% fit physically & mentally players. Hill should not play again nor Stack or Hudson. Hudson has been good for us but he is not the future, stick with Minson,Roughead & would like to see Cordy get a run its time to rebuild get the kids in.

[bornadog]

I'd be looking at the following type of side against the Saints

Backs
Hargrave - Morris - Wood
Murphy - Williams - Sherman

Centres
Cooney - Picken - Griffen
Minson - Ward - Boyd

Forwards
Higgins - Cross - Giansiracusa
Djerrkura - Lake - Veszpremi

Interchange
Libertore - Wallis - Mulligan - Howard

Outs Grant, Jones and Hill.

- Djerrkura and Veszpremi to be very defensive minded and not allow the last line of defense to just chip it out wide and start the Saints running with the ball.
- Mulligan to provide relief in the ruck and to spend some time in the back line if they go tall.
I'm happy for him to be used forward even though he doesn't have a lot of experience there.
- Murphy, Sherman, Griffen and Cooney to provide as much outside running as they can.

It's a small line-up so we must out run them.

Edited to include Shaggy

[Ghost Dog]

I disagree. Our next 4 games are against sides out of the 8 - if we can't win at least 2, then we are gone. But for now, I don't see a loss in Perth and 2 losses to top 4 sides as a reason to pull up stumps.



Hall is our best forward, so if he is right then he's in.
Lake is our best defender and needs to find touch, and the forward line is the best place for him to do that.

After that its Jones or Roughead - both need senior experience, both offer something - I'd probably say it's more important to have a 2nd ruck than permanent 3rd tall up forward, so Roughy gets the nod.

Firstly, pulling up stumps is never an option. You have to keep fighting. But re above, these were not just losses but crushing losses. Cats took their foot off only because they got bored. GC got closer to the Eagles than we did. All is not well at Western Oval and not really sure what it's all about. Still, it's a sport and anything can happen. St Kilda have had our measure for a while, so must be our turn. Hoping for an end to 'Kamakazie' football and a bit more run and skills.
As always, cheering on, but inwardly, quietly realistic.

[Pickenitup]

In Dalhaus, Cooney Roughead
Out Grant Hill Mulligan
I think we can get away with Leaving Mulligan out as Saints only have 1 tall Riewoldt which i think Tommy And Moz can rotate on def need more Run so Coons and Luke will help.
If Libba is right to go maybe rest Wallis for him.

[LongWait]

Not sure what you mean by supporting the status quo. If you mean after every loss I don't call for the coaches head, then your right. I prefer to have a review at the end of year and then assess who should be the coach. BTW, the last time the dogs were in a GF, I was 5 years old and didn't go to the game.

I mean you challenge everyone who questions the coach, gameplan and direction of the MC.

I don't call for the coaches head after every loss, but like many on here I have questioned Eades' performance as coach long before this season began. And like many others, I rarely post on here because opinions which challenge the status quo are not welcomed by some of the very, very frequent posters such as yourself.

BTW the last time the Bulldogs were in a GF I was almost 3 years of age and didn't go to the game.

[bornadog]

I mean you challenge everyone who questions the coach, gameplan and direction of the MC.

I don't call for the coaches head after every loss, but like many on here I have questioned Eades' performance as coach long before this season began. And like many others, I rarely post on here because opinions which challenge the status quo are not welcomed by some of the very, very frequent posters such as yourself.

BTW the last time the Bulldogs were in a GF I was almost 3 years of age and didn't go to the game.

I only challenge when posters don't give a reason for the challenge, but just make meaningless statements with no basis.

[LongWait]

I only challenge when posters don't give a reason for the challenge, but just make meaningless statements with no basis.

Crap. It doesn't matter whether a justification is included - you will take on anyone who expresses views which are contrary to your blind faith in Eade and the MC.

Believe that all is fine and that Rocket and the MC are doing a good job if that makes you feel better. Don't expect all others to agree though. Rocket is responsible for the position we are in right now and will be held to account for it at the end of the season.

I hope that the club resists the pressure to sack Eade mid season. We owe Rocket more respect than that and he should be given the opportunity to resurrect the season and his coaching tenure with the Bulldogs. Unless there is a miraculous turnaround he shouldn't be reappointed though.

[Before I Die]

Crap. It doesn't matter whether a justification is included - you will take on anyone who expresses views which are contrary to your blind faith in Eade and the MC.

Believe that all is fine and that Rocket and the MC are doing a good job if that makes you feel better. Don't expect all others to agree though. Rocket is responsible for the position we are in right now and will be held to account for it at the end of the season.

I hope that the club resists the pressure to sack Eade mid season. We owe Rocket more respect than that and he should be given the opportunity to resurrect the season and his coaching tenure with the Bulldogs. Unless there is a miraculous turnaround he shouldn't be reappointed though.

I think the word 'blind' is a bit unfair. There are posters on Woof who support Eade, posters who are calling for his head, and those who are undecided. Each to their own opinion so long as they are willing to back it up with reasons. We can disagree with each other but we shouldn't belittle or dismiss out of hand the opinions of others.

I am one of the Eade supporters though I also believe that his failure to develop some forward pressure does puts his, or at least the forward line coach's, credibility on the line. It would also appear that I am of the right vintage to join this discussion as I was also 5 at the time of our last GF appearance

[Rocco Jones]

Outs:
Grant- I said last week that bringing him in was a mistake and I sadly was proven right. He was/should have been dropped due to a lack of intensity rather than talent. He went back and relied on his talent to kick 4 goals but his intensity was still apparently lacking. What's the point of dropping him in the first place? I don't care if he kicks 8 goals this week, I only want him back in when he shows intensity for Willy.

Hill- It's a couple of days later and the emotions have subsided and I truly never want to see this guy ever wear our jumper again. I think the term 'soft' is thrown around way too much in the game, it's a tough bloody game full of tough men but this guy is out and out soft. Say to him that ripping it up for Willy will suit both of us as it increases his trade value and contract worth.

Jones- I really don't him out and don't see it as him being 'dropped', more what's best for him long term. If not this week, if he keeps on not getting a touch he needs to go back to Willy. What I want is what's best for his long term development.

Ins: Libba, Cooney, Veszpremi

[Dry Rot]

Ins:.....Veszpremi

I'd like to see him be given a few games now.

Do you reckon he's a player who will look better in an AFL side than the VFL?

[bornadog]

1. Crap. It doesn't matter whether a justification is included - you will take on anyone who expresses views which are contrary to your blind faith in Eade and the MC.

2. Believe that all is fine and that Rocket and the MC are doing a good job if that makes you feel better. Don't expect all others to agree though. Rocket is responsible for the position we are in right now and will be held to account for it at the end of the season. .

1. Show me one post to back your argument.

2. No, that doesn't make me feel better, its just your opinion.


I think the word 'blind' is a bit unfair. There are posters on Woof who support Eade, posters who are calling for his head, and those who are undecided. Each to their own opinion so long as they are willing to back it up with reasons. We can disagree with each other but we shouldn't belittle or dismiss out of hand the opinions of others.

I am one of the Eade supporters though I also believe that his failure to develop some forward pressure does puts his, or at least the forward line coach's, credibility on the line. It would also appear that I am of the right vintage to join this discussion as I was also 5 at the time of our last GF appearance

Agreed

[1eyedog]

If we will not play finals and it seems more and more likely why are we dropping Wallis, Grant and Jones? We should play them as much as their bodies will allow for the rest of the season. This includes Libba.

Don't see why Cross should be in the team, am really disillusioned by Boyd as well and feel cheated with him as the captain of the club I support.

[LostDoggy]

Outs:
Grant- I said last week that bringing him in was a mistake and I sadly was proven right. He was/should have been dropped due to a lack of intensity rather than talent. He went back and relied on his talent to kick 4 goals but his intensity was still apparently lacking. What's the point of dropping him in the first place? I don't care if he kicks 8 goals this week, I only want him back in when he shows intensity for Willy.

100%. If we are dropping these young guys it needs to be for more than one week or really stands for naught. A "statement" demotion isn't really achieving much in a week. A "skill"demotion won't be fixed in one week. Either way it makes little sense and clearly Grant learned little from the experience as his approach didn't change.


Hill- It's a couple of days later and the emotions have subsided and I truly never want to see this guy ever wear our jumper again. I think the term 'soft' is thrown around way too much in the game, it's a tough bloody game full of tough men but this guy is out and out soft. Say to him that ripping it up for Willy will suit both of us as it increases his trade value and contract worth.

Grrrrrrrrrrr. ATM I don't want to hear/see/think about this bloke again...totally embarrassed and so should Josh be..


Jones- I really don't him out and don't see it as him being 'dropped', more what's best for him long term. If not this week, if he keeps on not getting a touch he needs to go back to Willy. What I want is what's best for his long term development.

I think we leave him in the 1's. He seems to be learning which we need him to do. He might as well make mistakes in the 1's as he still contributes and he'll learn within the faster pace of the seniors rather thn developing in the 2's and then having to adjust. The way the years going it doesn't hurt us and this kid has a crack.


Ins: Libba, Cooney, Veszpremi

Yep; maybe give Cordy some game time as well at some point in the coming weeks.

[G-Mo77]

It is 4:30 AM and I've just finished work, maybe I'm delusional from sleep deprecation so bare with me here. What are peoples thoughts of leaving Josh Hill in the team?

It's out there now and all coaches, players and supporters have seen what has happened and a majority would probably say goodbye. I've said it along with many others in here that he is gone and gone for good but what if Eade and the MC say this is it, last chance to prove you want to be an AFL footballer, if not you're done, gone for good, finished!

I'm not going to argue for or against it's just a scenario I'm throwing out there. Thoughts?

[Bulldog Joe]

It is 4:30 AM and I've just finished work, maybe I'm delusional from sleep deprecation so bare with me here. What are peoples thoughts of leaving Josh Hill in the team?

It's out there now and all coaches, players and supporters have seen what has happened and a majority would probably say goodbye. I've said it along with many others in here that he is gone and gone for good but what if Eade and the MC say this is it, last chance to prove you want to be an AFL footballer, if not you're done, gone for good, finished!

I'm not going to argue for or against it's just a scenario I'm throwing out there. Thoughts?

Well I couldn't agree with keeping him in, but he does need to be given hope. The hope would be to resurrect his career with his VFL performance.
He needs to have some specific criteria that he needs to achieve and that criteria needs to fit his skill set. It needs to be about getting to the contest, running to receive handball, effort without the ball and performing a team role. He also needs to meet the criteria for probably 3 consecutive weeks to be considered for a recall and maintain sufficient intensity for the remainder of the year to salvage his career.

Jarrad Grant needs similar management requiring 3weeks of showing the necessary intensity before being considered for a recall. Grant probably needs to be required to stick about 5 tackles a week.

[The Pie Man]

Outs:


Ins: Libba, Cooney, Veszpremi

I think Hooper would be in better form - thoughts?

Maybe we give Lib a week in the VFL and debut Tutt

[LongWait]

1. Show me one post to back your argument.

2. No, that doesn't make me feel better, its just your opinion.



Agreed

I'm not the first on here to point out that you do not tolerate contrary opinions.

[the banker]

It is 4:30 AM and I've just finished work, maybe I'm delusional from sleep deprecation so bare with me here. What are peoples thoughts of leaving Josh Hill in the team?

It's out there now and all coaches, players and supporters have seen what has happened and a majority would probably say goodbye. I've said it along with many others in here that he is gone and gone for good but what if Eade and the MC say this is it, last chance to prove you want to be an AFL footballer, if not you're done, gone for good, finished!

I'm not going to argue for or against it's just a scenario I'm throwing out there. Thoughts?

go to bed

[the banker]

I think Hooper would be in better form - thoughts?

Maybe we give Lib a week in the VFL and debut Tutt

Only watched the Foxtel Cup for brief periods but Hooper impressed with his willingness to grab the moment with enthusiasm. He is a competitor.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Only watched the Foxtel Cup for brief periods but Hooper impressed with his willingness to grab the moment with enthusiasm. He is a competitor.

I watched the Foxtel Cup game last night and I think Hooper is a fair way down the list.

[The Pie Man]

I watched the Foxtel Cup game last night and I think Hooper is a fair way down the list.

Based on his performance in that game?

I thought he did quite well, and was an emergency for the Geelong game.

What was it about his game that left you thinking that Sockeye?

[bornadog]

I'm not the first on here to point out that you do not tolerate contrary opinions.

so if I have a different opinion to you or support the status quo you don't like it?

Come on show me where I shoot down posters for wanting to change the status quo?

[Sockeye Salmon]

Based on his performance in that game?

I thought he did quite well, and was an emergency for the Geelong game.

What was it about his game that left you thinking that Sockeye?

He doesn't get involved enough.

He did a couple of nice things but goes for long periods where he doesn't do anything at all. I also don't know what role he could play at AFL level.

He doesn't have the tank or the tricks to be a midfielder.
I can't remember him ever crumbing a goal.
At 172cm he would get exploited as a defender.

He is basically the worlds smallest KPF and that ain't gonna fly.

He is playing the same role as Vespremi and Vespremi is much more effective at it.

[The Pie Man]

He doesn't get involved enough.

He did a couple of nice things but goes for long periods where he doesn't do anything at all. I also don't know what role he could play at AFL level.

He doesn't have the tank or the tricks to be a midfielder.
I can't remember him ever crumbing a goal.
At 172cm he would get exploited as a defender.

He is basically the worlds smallest KPF and that ain't gonna fly.

He is playing the same role as Vespremi and Vespremi is much more effective at it.

All fair points - I thought Hooper's stint in the middle was fair, his disposal into the forward 50 was clean, though if his aerobic capacity isn't up to standard then it's going to be tough to transition to AFL level (which begs the obvious question about his contract status, but I'll leave that)

I remember Malthouse talking about Blair recently - how they looked at 'like' (or more potential like) players in the league to help him make it, and they landed on David Rodan. If I was to land on someone similar to Hooper for inspiration, I'm thinking Ballantyne.

[G-Mo77]

Well I couldn't agree with keeping him in, but he does need to be given hope. The hope would be to resurrect his career with his VFL performance.
He needs to have some specific criteria that he needs to achieve and that criteria needs to fit his skill set. It needs to be about getting to the contest, running to receive handball, effort without the ball and performing a team role. He also needs to meet the criteria for probably 3 consecutive weeks to be considered for a recall and maintain sufficient intensity for the remainder of the year to salvage his career.

Jarrad Grant needs similar management requiring 3weeks of showing the necessary intensity before being considered for a recall. Grant probably needs to be required to stick about 5 tackles a week.

Yeah fair call. My initial thoughts were drop him and drop him for good but it is really no advantage to us to have a talented players stock down so low. Maybe a personal challenge could be good for him which is why I threw that out there. But you're probably right personal goals consistently at VFL is probably what is required.


go to bed

LOL. Had a pretty good sleep thanks. :D

[Bulldog Revolution]

I'd like to see him be given a few games now.

Do you reckon he's a player who will look better in an AFL side than the VFL?

I thought he was starting to look good pre-season, but the broken finger really set him back, and he looked overweight after it

Hopefully he is getting close now, and he may well be a guy who is capable of looking better at AFL level. The thing about his game is that he is not a high possession player but is capable of doing a few spectacular things that impact the game.

[Maddog37]

All fair points - I thought Hooper's stint in the middle was fair, his disposal into the forward 50 was clean, though if his aerobic capacity isn't up to standard then it's going to be tough to transition to AFL level (which begs the obvious question about his contract status, but I'll leave that)

I remember Malthouse talking about Blair recently - how they looked at 'like' (or more potential like) players in the league to help him make it, and they landed on David Rodan. If I was to land on someone similar to Hooper for inspiration, I'm thinking Ballantyne.

I would liken Hooper to Gary Moorcroft (I think that is his name) that little ranga that took a hanger from Scott Lucas' one and only right foot kick.

Hooper needs to be able to maximise his ground work so he can cause match up problems. Too strong in the air for little guys and too nippy for big guys. He still looks heavy to me though.

He is a natural footballer though IMO which I do like. He just makes things happen when he is near the contest. Problem is he is does not get to enough contests.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Problem is he is does not get to enough contests.

We have too many of these players in our forward line as it is. With Grant, Jones, Hill etc. I think Dollhouse might be a better option as a small crumbing forward

[BulldogBelle]

We have too many of these players in our forward line as it is. With Grant, Jones, Hill etc. I think Dollhouse might be a better option as a small crumbing forward



Think we need a Forward Pocket / Crumbing coach?

Name the half decent Forward Pocket's we have had in the last 25 years? Kolyniuk? Brian Royal? Johnson perhaps? Nathan Brown?

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Think we need a Forward Pocket / Crumbing coach?

Name the half decent Forward Pocket's we have had in the last 25 years? Kolyniuk? Brian Royal? Johnson perhaps? Nathan Brown?

Good question. I can't think of any. Brown was a lead-up small. Kolyniuk is probably the closest. Aker was probably the best but obviously picked up his talents at the Lions.

It may just be a coaching issue. I remember last year this to be a problem. Whenever the ball was bombed into our 50 everyone would either go for the pack mark or stand at the back. No-one was purposely there to get any crumbs. The recruiting of Hall was meant to provide for this with our numerous small forwards. I haven't looked into this issue this season due to all the other problems being more worrying. We could learn a thing or two this week against the saints. Milne and Schneider are very good at the role

[Hot_Doggies]

Think we need a Forward Pocket / Crumbing coach?

Name the half decent Forward Pocket's we have had in the last 25 years? Kolyniuk? Brian Royal? Johnson perhaps? Nathan Brown?


Matthew Robbins was pretty handy when fit.

[Rocco Jones]

If we will not play finals and it seems more and more likely why are we dropping Wallis, Grant and Jones? We should play them as much as their bodies will allow for the rest of the season. This includes Libba.

I totally agree that we need to have development first but does that necessarily mean having to play them in the AFL?

I wouldn't drop Jones or Wallis primarily due to what they bring/don't bring to the team short term. I would rest or send them to Willy for confidence based reasons. I definitely want Jones playing in the AFL as much as possible but there's only a certain amount of games where you can get a handful of possies before it becomes destructive.

Grant is in a different category at the moment. While he is still young, he is no longer in the purely developmental category IMO. Even if he was, he needs to learn a valuable lesson. He is coasting on a combination of talent and our general lack of it. His intensity is very poor ATM. It really holds him back as I think he has the tools to offer great defensive pressure (explosive pace, agile, good tackler).

[LostDoggy]

IN: Dalhaus, Schofield.

OUT: Hill, Grant

simple

[The Coon Dog]

Grant is in a different category at the moment. While he is still young, he is no longer in the purely developmental category IMO. Even if he was, he needs to learn a valuable lesson. He is coasting on a combination of talent and our general lack of it. His intensity is very poor ATM. It really holds him back as I think he has the tools to offer great defensive pressure (explosive pace, agile, good tackler).

Is it possible that Grant could be played behind the ball? If so, would he be better off starting that at Williamstown?

[GVGjr]

Is it possible that Grant could be played behind the ball? If so, would he be better off starting that at Williamstown?

It's an interesting suggestion but I haven't seen anything in him that would suggest he would tackle that sort of assignment as part of a learning curve or development of him as a footballer.

Happy to be proven wrong.

[Greystache]

It's an interesting suggestion but I haven't seen anything in him that would suggest he would tackle that sort of assignment as part of a learning curve or development of him as a footballer.

Happy to be proven wrong.

I would think his kicking would be a concern too. Probably the last thing we need is another questionable kicker trying to hit up targets through the middle.

[Hotdog60]

Panos looked lively in the foxtel game, it also appears that he doesn't miss many shots at goal. Would he be worth a look in this year or see how he goes at Willy for the rest of the year and elevate next season if the signs are there.

[Mofra]

Matthew Robbins was pretty handy when fit.
Handy yes, bet he played more fo a lead-up style and less that of a traditional crumber.

Koly was good, do we need to go back that far?

[giaco]

If he's back this week, then Cooney will become our main crumbing forward, at least until he is fit enough to play mostly midfield.

Lake starting in the square with Cooney next to him would have the saints worried.

[comrade]

If he's back this week, then Cooney will become our main crumbing forward, at least until he is fit enough to play mostly midfield.

Lake starting in the square with Cooney next to him would have the saints worried.

Not if we can't get it down there.

[Sockeye Salmon]

If he's back this week, then Cooney will become our main crumbing forward, at least until he is fit enough to play mostly midfield.

Lake starting in the square with Cooney next to him would have the saints worried.

Why? Lyon would make sure they were up against all 18 Saints.

[giaco]

Yes, probably,but the thought of Lake one out with Dawson, even in the form he's in, is quite appealing.

On paper our midfield looks better than the Saints with Montagna and Hayes out, so hopefully we get a bit more of the ball this week.

[SlimPickens]

Hun reporting Dahlhaus a big chance to debut this week!

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Hun reporting Dahlhaus a big chance to debut this week!

Really hope he plays. Need to develop our kids quickly, and he's one that has really impressed against senior bodies already.

I'd like to see Tutt play in this game too, perhaps at the expense of Wallis.

[w3design]

Has Dahl been officially promoted?

[Desipura]

Has Dahl been officially promoted?

Yes he was promoted yesterday

[mjp]

If he's back this week, then Cooney will become our main crumbing forward, at least until he is fit enough to play mostly midfield.

Lake starting in the square with Cooney next to him would have the saints worried.

I can never understand comments like this.

We are talking about an AA defender and Brownlow medal winning mid playing forward because they are dealing with issues related to form and injury.

The opposition would have spent ages planning for these two if they were in peak form and playing in their natural positions - they wont have too many worries about the 2011 version of either player regardless of where they line up. I suspect their planning against Cooney would be how to get a rebounding defender (like Fisher) lined up against him...Lake will just be a size and shape match-up for them.

[Cyberdoggie]

I can never understand comments like this.

We are talking about an AA defender and Brownlow medal winning mid playing forward because they are dealing with issues related to form and injury.

The opposition would have spent ages planning for these two if they were in peak form and playing in their natural positions - they wont have too many worries about the 2011 version of either player regardless of where they line up. I suspect their planning against Cooney would be how to get a rebounding defender (like Fisher) lined up against him...Lake will just be a size and shape match-up for them.

If i was Ross Lyon (glad i'm not), and i saw Cooney and Lake sitting up forward the whole game i would be rubbing my hands together.

We have showed absolutely no willingness to run the ball at any chance (other than Murphy or Griffen) in the past few weeks out of defence, so against the saints i can't see that changing. I can just see us bombing the ball forward to 18 saints and 2 bulldog players who don't normally play up forward.

[WB4Life]

I find it really hard to beleive that people on here consider themselves Dogs supporters... Supporters...

i don't see much Supporting going on, just a bunch of internet hero's taking shots at AFL footballers.

Yes the team is having a poor season, some blokes are down... don't kick them, get behind them... I'm all for blokes being sent to the VFL to get some form, but jesus, some of the comments on here are just ridiculous...

Theres either a lot of people that have little to no knowledge of the game or our team, or mob mentality sets in and everyone just gets on here for a hate session to make themselves feel good.

[The Coon Dog]

I find it really hard to beleive that people on here consider themselves Dogs supporters... Supporters...

i don't see much Supporting going on, just a bunch of internet hero's taking shots at AFL footballers.

Yes the team is having a poor season, some blokes are down... don't kick them, get behind them... I'm all for blokes being sent to the VFL to get some form, but jesus, some of the comments on here are just ridiculous...

Theres either a lot of people that have little to no knowledge of the game or our team, or mob mentality sets in and everyone just gets on here for a hate session to make themselves feel good.

To some degree what your saying has some merit, but I think you're being a bit harsh. There are plenty of posters on here with an intricate knowledge of the club, its players & the game itself. Many of those who have a criticism have detailed their reasons with an analytical rationale. I don't think anyone has a problem with constructive criticism, just the cheap pots shots, which I agree are unnecessary & fortunately brought to account.

[Ozza]

Changes:
In: Cooney; Daulhaus; Roughead
Out: Hill; Mulligan; Grant

B: Hargrave; Morris; Wood
HB: Picken; Williams; Murphy
C: Higgins; Boyd; Cross
HF: Cooney; Lake; Sherman
F: Gia; Jones; Djerkerra
R: Minson; Griffen; Ward
Int: Liberatore; Wallis; Roughead; Howard (Sub)

[The Underdog]

I find it really hard to beleive that people on here consider themselves Dogs supporters... Supporters...

i don't see much Supporting going on, just a bunch of internet hero's taking shots at AFL footballers.

Yes the team is having a poor season, some blokes are down... don't kick them, get behind them... I'm all for blokes being sent to the VFL to get some form, but jesus, some of the comments on here are just ridiculous...

Theres either a lot of people that have little to no knowledge of the game or our team, or mob mentality sets in and everyone just gets on here for a hate session to make themselves feel good.

I think part of supporting is caring enough to get upset, be annoyed and wonder what the hell is going on with some players.
Sure some people just pot players, but hey this is the internet, anyone can say almost anything and they are usually pulled up by another poster or mod if it's out of hand.
I think one thing about this forum is that there is definitely not a mob mentality, just a lot of strongly held opinions, but they mostly come from a good place.

[Greystache]

I find it really hard to beleive that people on here consider themselves Dogs supporters... Supporters...

i don't see much Supporting going on, just a bunch of internet hero's taking shots at AFL footballers.

Yes the team is having a poor season, some blokes are down... don't kick them, get behind them... I'm all for blokes being sent to the VFL to get some form, but jesus, some of the comments on here are just ridiculous...

Theres either a lot of people that have little to no knowledge of the game or our team, or mob mentality sets in and everyone just gets on here for a hate session to make themselves feel good.

Perhaps a football Internet forum isn't the right place for you.

[WB4Life]

Perhaps a football Internet forum isn't the right place for you.

Why cause my anger is aimed at members of the forum as opposed to the players we say we support?

Look i'm not saying all of whats being said is wrong, Hill needs a return to the seconds, Lake i think needs the same, but the hate aimed at Matthew Boyd really got up my nose, the man is the heart and soul of our engine room, you take him away and you'll see real problems, it's not just his possesions that he brings to the game, he makes the guys around him better. i was at the game Saturday, he was far from our biggest issue.

[Greystache]

Why cause my anger is aimed at members of the forum as opposed to the players we say we support?

To join a forum and make your first post a sweeping generalisation that the people on it don't know anything about the subject, or follow a mob mentality, shows either an outrageous amount of arrogance or a scary amount of ignorance. If you're going to continue to post on here let's hope your contributions improve dramatically from your first effort.

[WB4Life]

To join a forum and make your first post a sweeping generalisation that the people on it don't know anything about the subject, or follow a mob mentality, shows either an outrageous amount of arrogance or a scary amount of ignorance. If you're going to continue to post on here let's hope your contributions improve dramatically from your first effort.

I've been coming and reading post hear for a long time, it just got to the point yesterday where i'd had enough.

Why is it ok for people to bag players, but they get there back up when someone says something negative towards them?

Did i generalise my statement yes, after i read page after page of the same attacks against certain players. I felt more anger towards what was written here, than anything i saw on Saturday.

I'm sure there are People on here with far greater knowledge than myself of the ins and outs of the team and the game in general, but that doesn't mean, that my statement was any less correct and warrented at those it was directed at.

[The Coon Dog]

Jen Withan has tweeted that Ed Barlow will also be elevated & play tomorrow.

[The Underdog]

Jen Withan has tweeted that Ed Barlow will also be elevated & play tomorrow.

Is that the first sign of the apocalypse?

[Greystache]

Jen Withan has tweeted that Ed Barlow will also be elevated & play tomorrow.

That's a surprise. She's also saying Lake will miss with a groin.

[LostDoggy]

Just heard on SEN via Eade, Lake won't play.

[Mofra]

Is that the first sign of the apocalypse?
Can I rent a room in your bunker :eek:

[bornadog]

Changes:
In: Cooney; Daulhaus; Roughead
Out: Hill; Mulligan; Grant

B: Hargrave; Morris; Wood
HB: Picken; Williams; Murphy
C: Higgins; Boyd; Cross
HF: Cooney; Lake; Sherman
F: Gia; Jones; Djerkerra
R: Minson; Griffen; Ward
Int: Liberatore; Wallis; Roughead; Howard (Sub)

Better rethink as Lake is out

[G-Mo77]

Barlow to play back then? Has he been doing that at Willy?

[Greystache]

Shes also tweeted that Hill's out

[G-Mo77]

Shes also tweeted that Hill's out

Anyone surprised. :)

[G-Mo77]

Newest Tweet

Barlow and Dahlhaus will be elevated from the rookie list and will play this week against the Saints

Great to see Doll House as an in, if he starts as a sub I'll throw up!

Apparently Cooney is not training either.

[LostDoggy]

Anyone think Barlow is coming in to tag Goddard?

[The Pie Man]

Julian DeStoop has tweeted Hudson to also return, along with Libba (also mentioned the Cooney not training bit already mentioned above)

[aker39]

So, this is how it looks

In: Hudson, Libba, Barlow, Dahlhaus

Out: Hill, Lake, Grant & ???

[G-Mo77]

So, this is how it looks

In: Hudson, Libba, Barlow, Dahlhaus

Out: Hill, Lake, Grant & ???

Mulligan could be the unlucky one. I just can't see a matchup for him.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

why wont schofield be an inclusion? Thought he was doing better than Barlow. Possibly matchup issues?

[bornadog]

why wont schofield be an inclusion? Thought he was doing better than Barlow. Possibly matchup issues?

Apparently is a possibility

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Moles and Addison should also be pushing if healthy. I am perplexed that Cooney hasn't pulled up. Thought he was certain given he said he would definately be playing this week

[bornadog]

Moles and Addison should also be pushing if healthy. I am perplexed that Cooney hasn't pulled up. Thought he was certain given he said he would definately be playing this week

Both still on injury list. Not sure about Cooney

[LostDoggy]

In the HS it says 5 changes will be made this week.

Hudson, Libba< Cooney, Barlow and Dahlhaus will play

Lake and Hill both out with 3 more to be dropped

[The Underdog]

Wow, I haven't been this excited by selection for ages. I literally have no idea who one third of the team will be. Or what they'll do when the get there.
It's like a game show.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

In the HS it says 5 changes will be made this week.

Hudson, Libba< Cooney, Barlow and Dahlhaus will play

Lake and Hill both out with 3 more to be dropped

Surely 1 of the 3 will be Grant. Not sure who the other 2 will be. I hope Dahlhaus is NOT the sub. With Libba and cooney coming in you would think Wallis will come out for a rest.

[Maddog37]

Would Barlow be an option for Revolt? At least to run up and down the ground with him.....he is the fittest at the club isnt he?

[bornadog]

Surely 1 of the 3 will be Grant. Not sure who the other 2 will be. I hope Dahlhaus is NOT the sub. With Libba and cooney coming in you would think Wallis will come out for a rest.

My prediction, Jones and Wallis

[Desipura]

My prediction, Jones and Wallis
If we pick Hudson and Barlow and drop Jones, we are not looking at the long term IMHO

[bulldogsthru&thru]

My prediction, Jones and Wallis

No Jones, No Grant, No Hall.....back to a 2009 forward line!

[aker39]

No Jones, No Grant, No Hall.....back to a 2009 forward line!

Without Aker & Johnno:confused::confused:

[The Coon Dog]

Jones will play.

[aker39]

Mark Stevens suggesting there could be 6 changes.

I'd like to know the last time a team that made 6 changes (only 1 through injury) has won that week.

[always right]

Mark Stevens suggesting there could be 6 changes.

I'd like to know the last time a team that made 6 changes (only 1 through injury) has won that week.

Essendon...round 13...1968

[Desipura]

Jones will play.
Good.
In: Cooney, Dahlhaus, Barlow, Hudson, Cooney & Schofield
Out: Grant, Hill, Lake, Higgins, Mulligan & Wallis

[Sedat]

Mark Stevens suggesting there could be 6 changes.

I'd like to know the last time a team that made 6 changes (only 1 through injury) has won that week.
Gold Coast have been making 5-6 changes just about every week this season. Freo did the same in 1995 - I remember seeing names like Leigh Wardell-Johnson and Jamie Merillo in and out of the team like a yo-yo.

[Jasper]

Essendon...round 13...1968

I think Fitzroy beat South Melbourne in 1972 at the Junction Oval in Round 9 with 7 changes ........

[Axe Man]

Mark Stevens suggesting there could be 6 changes.

I'd like to know the last time a team that made 6 changes (only 1 through injury) has won that week.

Melbourne made 5 changes last week (only 1 through injury I believe), including 2 debutants and managed a win. Not sure about 6 changes though.

[kruder]

I'm gonna get abused for this but I would have played Hill this week.

His first bad game for the year against Richmond and the guy gets dropped for his home game in the west. Then plays comes on as a sub in the middle of the 3rd term against Hawthorn, and Eade absolutely lets fly at the guy at 3rt time.

Now, Hill had no chance to make an impact and totally goes back into his shell after it and plays his worst game for the club against Geeelong.

The guy is obviously a confidence player and Eades poor man management is as big a reason as any for his current plight.

For once Rodney, stop playing Favs with ur underperfoming senior group and show some faith in the kid. Back him to shine on Friday night football, tell him you believe in him for FFS!

[G-Mo77]

I'm not going to shoot you down kruder. I made a post about leaving him in the team earlier and just tell Josh that this is your last chance to prove you want to play football. I guess if he gets dropped, which I'm sure he will be, he has set goals which he has to achieve consistently before he is even considered again. His form has not just soured the Western Bulldogs but potential suitors that maybe interested in him.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Looks like Dahl could be the sub, but I hope he isn't. I'd go with Libba.

[Greystache]

I'm gonna get abused for this but I would have played Hill this week.

His first bad game for the year against Richmond and the guy gets dropped for his home game in the west. Then plays comes on as a sub in the middle of the 3rd term against Hawthorn, and Eade absolutely lets fly at the guy at 3rt time.

Now, Hill had no chance to make an impact and totally goes back into his shell after it and plays his worst game for the club against Geeelong.

The guy is obviously a confidence player and Eades poor man management is as big a reason as any for his current plight.

For once Rodney, stop playing Favs with ur underperfoming senior group and show some faith in the kid. Back him to shine on Friday night football, tell him you believe in him for FFS!

You obviously missed the game against Collingwood, he was extremely lucky to keep his spot. His effort in that game was equally as bad as Geelong.

[G-Mo77]

Looks like Dahl could be the sub, but I hope he isn't. I'd go with Libba.

I'd go with DJ

[The Coon Dog]

I'm gonna get abused for this but I would have played Hill this week.

His first bad game for the year against Richmond and the guy gets dropped for his home game in the west. Then plays comes on as a sub in the middle of the 3rd term against Hawthorn, and Eade absolutely lets fly at the guy at 3rt time.

Now, Hill had no chance to make an impact and totally goes back into his shell after it and plays his worst game for the club against Geeelong.

The guy is obviously a confidence player and Eades poor man management is as big a reason as any for his current plight.

For once Rodney, stop playing Favs with ur underperfoming senior group and show some faith in the kid. Back him to shine on Friday night football, tell him you believe in him for FFS!

How many chances do you want to give him? The penny just doesn't drop! He got dropped for the finals, almost got traded, presented for pre season as fat as a pig, got pulled by the club from the indigenous game due to attitude. He just doesn't get it. I'm with Chris Grant on this one.

[always right]

Would be surprised if DJ or Libba were the sub as both have played this role before and we seem to like rotating players through this role. Reckon they should get a full game...especially DJ as we need to find out what he can offer beyond a flashy quarter here and there.

I think itt's most likely to be Dalhaus but I would prefer one of Higgins, Sherman or Stack.

[LostDoggy]

We made around 6 changes mainly through injury against saints at moorabin in about 92? and won.

[Sockeye Salmon]

I find it really hard to beleive that people on here consider themselves Dogs supporters... Supporters...

i don't see much Supporting going on, just a bunch of internet hero's taking shots at AFL footballers.

Yes the team is having a poor season, some blokes are down... don't kick them, get behind them... I'm all for blokes being sent to the VFL to get some form, but jesus, some of the comments on here are just ridiculous...

Theres either a lot of people that have little to no knowledge of the game or our team, or mob mentality sets in and everyone just gets on here for a hate session to make themselves feel good.

Welcome to Woof, WB4Life.

If you have any experience with internet forums you will know they are full of knobs who spend most of their time slagging off the club.

They think they care more about the club than you do because they are 'passionate'.


All they are is pretend supporters who take glee at sinking the boots in and slagging off the club.

If you defend the club you will be accused of being overly positive and everyone's favorite 'accepting mediocrity'.


Don't even bother logging on when we lose.

[Ghost Dog]

I'm gonna get abused for this but I would have played Hill this week.

His first bad game for the year against Richmond and the guy gets dropped for his home game in the west. Then plays comes on as a sub in the middle of the 3rd term against Hawthorn, and Eade absolutely lets fly at the guy at 3rt time.

Now, Hill had no chance to make an impact and totally goes back into his shell after it and plays his worst game for the club against Geeelong.

The guy is obviously a confidence player and Eades poor man management is as big a reason as any for his current plight.

For once Rodney, stop playing Favs with ur underperfoming senior group and show some faith in the kid. Back him to shine on Friday night football, tell him you believe in him for FFS!

You're not the only one Kruder. A couple of commentators called for it also.
I think Eade has come out publicly before and said "we have a huge amount of faith in Josh (2010 ). Wonder if that stilll stands.

[Ghost Dog]

I find it really hard to beleive that people on here consider themselves Dogs supporters... Supporters...

i don't see much Supporting going on, just a bunch of internet hero's taking shots at AFL footballers.

Yes the team is having a poor season, some blokes are down... don't kick them, get behind them... I'm all for blokes being sent to the VFL to get some form, but jesus, some of the comments on here are just ridiculous...

Theres either a lot of people that have little to no knowledge of the game or our team, or mob mentality sets in and everyone just gets on here for a hate session to make themselves feel good.

Yes good point. People do tend to accentuate the negatives despite the positives.
I'm really interested to see the team this week, with all the changes.

[AndrewP6]

I'm not going to shoot you down kruder. I made a post about leaving him in the team earlier and just tell Josh that this is your last chance to prove you want to play football. I guess if he gets dropped, which I'm sure he will be, he has set goals which he has to achieve consistently before he is even considered again. His form has not just soured the Western Bulldogs but potential suitors that maybe interested in him.

He's had plenty of chances.