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Are You Sick Of The Afl Changing Rules Every Year
What do you think about the AFL and their rules committee, tinkering and changing the game? Has this effected the game over the years? IF you are happy with rule changes, should we have more?
Personally, I can't stand the AFL constantly changing the rules, experimenting in the preseason with no kicking backwards, minimum length of a kick etc. Why do we want to constantly change the greatest game in the world? I really can't see the point and it only confuses players, umpires and supporters.
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Re: Are You Sick Of The Afl Changing Rules Every Year
I'm with you BAD. I'm a firm believer that the game continually evolves, and when coahces and players think of ways to change it for the better or worse, the game will adapt on its own for the better. I detest officials changing the nature of our game either because they dont like some new aspects or they are trying to challenge other sports like soccer. The game should be left alone for the most part. I hope that one day footy will go back to long kicking, contests and drafting people with more football ability than athletic ability. The game and clubs can do that without rule changes. Perhaps those in at the AFL rule change commitee feel the need to something to justify their existance?
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Re: Are You Sick Of The Afl Changing Rules Every Year
While rule changes are now a part of AFL each year I am with BAD and 42 that so many changes are not required.
If the devote a team to review the rules each year then changes will occur because this group at least must be seen to be doing something.
I suppose the real question is what rule changes over the last couple of years do you think the AFL got wrong?
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Re: Are You Sick Of The Afl Changing Rules Every Year
Too many changes as far as I am concerned. Rules for rules sake.
They are making it to easy of forwards from what I can tell.
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Re: Are You Sick Of The Afl Changing Rules Every Year
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Originally Posted by
GVGjr
I suppose the real question is what rule changes over the last couple of years do you think the AFL got wrong?
I really, really like the rule that lets a defender kick the ball in after a behind without waiting for the goal umpire to wave the flags. It makes it harder for the defending team to set up a zone defence and ZDs are a major blight on the modern form of the game. I hate seeing players run to mind space and really like the fact that with the quick kick in pretty much the only option is to go man on man.
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Re: Are You Sick Of The Afl Changing Rules Every Year
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Originally Posted by
Twodogs
I really, really like the rule that lets a defender kick the ball in after a behind without waiting for the goal umpire to wave the flags. It makes it harder for the defending team to set up a zone defence and ZDs are a major blight on the modern form of the game. I hate seeing players run to mind space and really like the fact that with the quick kick in pretty much the only option is to go man on man.
And it helps when we have a kickerinnerer like Lindsay Gilbee.
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Re: Are You Sick Of The Afl Changing Rules Every Year
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Originally Posted by
The Coon Dog
And it helps when we have a kickerinnerer like Lindsay Gilbee.
Well, yes. It does!
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Re: Are You Sick Of The Afl Changing Rules Every Year
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Originally Posted by
The Coon Dog
And it helps when we have a kickerinnerer like Lindsay Gilbee.
How is young Andrejs kicking?
Early reports were he's a gun kick, Gilbee-esq. Could be very handy when Andrejs gets to be a regular player having multiple guys that can pin-point 50 kicks.
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Re: Are You Sick Of The Afl Changing Rules Every Year
Kickerinnerer, after I reread that I thought of Derek & Clive.....I'm still laughing now.
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Re: Are You Sick Of The Afl Changing Rules Every Year
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bornadog
What do you think about the AFL and their rules committee, tinkering and changing the game? Has this effected the game over the years? IF you are happy with rule changes, should we have more?
Personally, I can't stand the AFL constantly changing the rules, experimenting in the preseason with no kicking backwards, minimum length of a kick etc. Why do we want to constantly change the greatest game in the world? I really can't see the point and it only confuses players, umpires and supporters.
IMHO it has farce like qualities. They introduce a new rule and are gung ho about it for a few weeks and then they discover it has negative and unplanned consequences (collateral damage) or it's just there to keep the game in the headlines for all the wrong reasons.
Having spawned a huge and for the most part, not very bright army of football journos they now have to keep them busy and keep them happy by allowing them to regularly mount and exercise their hobby horses.
All part of the attempt to keep football admin at the lowest common denominator. The odd worthwhile change happens but more by luck than good management.
Now if you want to really get me going try talking about the stupid and endlessly redundant language that the rules of the game and most other edicts are couched in. It's the best example yet of why failed lawyers should never be let loose on the English language.
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Re: Are You Sick Of The Afl Changing Rules Every Year
At any particular point in time I'd agree with everyone here.
But over time, have they generally been good for the game?
Or does everyone prefer the game played as I've seen from a grainy old video from the sixties?
What significant rule changes have been made over the last 40 years?
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Re: Are You Sick Of The Afl Changing Rules Every Year
Centre square was a good idea limiting the players at the centre bounce.
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Re: Are You Sick Of The Afl Changing Rules Every Year
In some ways it has been good seeing some new Rules being introduced by the AFL, but as rules have been introduced you will always hear of some players not fully understanding the rule changes etc, perhaps if they want to keep introducing these rules more explanation should be give to the players and coaches.
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Re: Are You Sick Of The Afl Changing Rules Every Year
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Twodogs
I really, really like the rule that lets a defender kick the ball in after a behind without waiting for the goal umpire to wave the flags. It makes it harder for the defending team to set up a zone defence and ZDs are a major blight on the modern form of the game. I hate seeing players run to mind space and really like the fact that with the quick kick in pretty much the only option is to go man on man.
I really, really hate the rule that lets a defender kick the ball in after a behind without waiting for the goal umpire to wave the flags.
Let's say you're around the centre square somewhere. You leave your man and run 30 metres to lay a shephard so your teammate can have a shot. He misses. The opposition kick it in straight away and your bludging opponent - who hasn't bothered to chase you - is now 50 metres clear on the wing.
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Re: Are You Sick Of The Afl Changing Rules Every Year
IIRC the rationale for rule changes is to speed the game up. But has it been the rule changes or innovative coaching that has really sped the game up?
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Re: Are You Sick Of The Afl Changing Rules Every Year
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Originally Posted by
Dry Rot
IIRC the rationale for rule changes is to speed the game up. But has it been the rule changes or innovative coaching that has really sped the game up?
The new marking rule won't affect the speed of the game. The game evolves on its own, coaches constantly seek ways to get an edge. The reason the game has changed from the way it used to be are vastly improved tactics, conditioning and skills.
In the past rule changes only occurred when there appeared to be something of a bottleneck, not as an annual media event. So there would be attempts to overcome it. Now we interfere with the natural evolution of the game and it is often not well based.
Attempts to speed up the game through the rules do so artificially and actually change the nature of the game and limit the capacity to innovate.
The idea of a standing Rules Committee is an admission of failure, something is wrong and needs fixing, and for their part the Committee must be responsive to the need.
Soccer has far fewer rules, which by the way are very simply written, but is far more technical than AFL, and changes to it's rules are few and far between.
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Re: Are You Sick Of The Afl Changing Rules Every Year
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Originally Posted by
Sockeye Salmon
I really, really hate the rule that lets a defender kick the ball in after a behind without waiting for the goal umpire to wave the flags.
Let's say you're around the centre square somewhere. You leave your man and run 30 metres to lay a shephard so your teammate can have a shot. He misses. The opposition kick it in straight away and your bludging opponent - who hasn't bothered to chase you - is now 50 metres clear on the wing.
I agree, in fact that rule didn't help us at all. In 2005 we kicked the most goals from carrying the ball all the way down from the kick in. In 2006 , I don't believe we were the highest goal kickers in that dept?
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Re: Are You Sick Of The Afl Changing Rules Every Year
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sockeye Salmon
I really, really hate the rule that lets a defender kick the ball in after a behind without waiting for the goal umpire to wave the flags.
Let's say you're around the centre square somewhere. You leave your man and run 30 metres to lay a shephard so your teammate can have a shot. He misses. The opposition kick it in straight away and your bludging opponent - who hasn't bothered to chase you - is now 50 metres clear on the wing.
So you dont have teammates who can cover for you? Do we have to stand around waiting for the umpire. What if the umpire waves his flag and you still havent found where your opponent has run off too?
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Re: Are You Sick Of The Afl Changing Rules Every Year
I think they get a lot of the rules right but it seems some rules are changed just for the sake of it. I like the idea of trialling the rules in the pre-season comp.
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Re: Are You Sick Of The Afl Changing Rules Every Year
BUMP
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bornadog
What do you think about the AFL and their rules committee, tinkering and changing the game? Has this effected the game over the years? IF you are happy with rule changes, should we have more?
Personally, I can't stand the AFL constantly changing the rules, experimenting in the preseason with no kicking backwards, minimum length of a kick etc. Why do we want to constantly change the greatest game in the world? I really can't see the point and it only confuses players, umpires and supporters.
Nothing has changed my mind. All the talk in the media this week is how to get rid of congestion. All the stupid ideas being discussed such as Zones will just change the game for good. IF Zones are brought in I will seriously consider not watching another game.
My Solution: Turn the clock back
* unlimited interchange
* two on the bench.
* No prior opportunity
* allow 3rd man up
* allow accidental chopping of arms - players aren't robots
* get rid of sliding in rule and protect players by not allowing feet first
Pay the free kicks for the basics of the game, ie incorrect disposal, holding the ball, holding the man behind play
PS: Rules to protect players safety is different, and I have no objection to it.
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Re: Are You Sick Of The Afl Changing Rules Every Year
There are some very simple remedies that will significantly alleviate the horrible congestion that has existed since Paul Roos single-handedly farked up the game in the mid 00's:
1. Umps to call ball-up as soon as the ball is in dispute and not moving out. They hover around forever waiting for the ball to come out, meanwhile 15 additional players converge. Call ball-up straight away so that there are only 3-4 players in the vicinity. Also throw the ball up immediately - none of this rubbish about telling players to move away from behind the ump and spending 5 seconds getting ready to bounce the ball, and none of this crap about nominating a specific ruckman which wastes even more time.
2. Get rid of prior opp - the single most exploited rule in the comp. Good players will get rid of it legally instead of deliberately hatching it in a tackle and waiting for a secondary stoppage. People are missing the point about prior opp and rewarding the ball winner - if the ball winner is doing nothing to try and dispose of it legally and simply waiting for another stoppage, they don't deserve any protection whatsoever. Reward proactive players who win the ball and want to do something with it, and also incentivise players to chase and tackle legally to win it back.
3. Get rid of boundary throw-ins. Another issue that wastes time while the boundary umpire spends 5 seconds preparing to throw it back in - this waiting creates additional packs of players converging. By giving a free to the team who touches it last it also promotes much more corridor ball movement.
4. Increase bench to 6 players and reduce rotations to 40 a game (10 per qtr). No interchanges to take place except during stop-plays (eg: only when goal is kicked, or stretcher is out). Increasing fatigue on the players will increase separation out on the field and create more space.
5. At a centre square ball-up, no other player is allowed in the square until the ball has exited the square. It's 4 v 4 until the ball is out of the square - this will promote positional play so that both teams have ample cover both winning the clearance or losing the clearance. Also stops that awful congestion after a secondary stoppage in the middle.
I don't need $1 million a year to fix the game. And there is no need for a 'competition committee' to be created just to give egomaniacs like Dangerfield yet another media vehicle to promote their personal brand.
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Re: Are You Sick Of The Afl Changing Rules Every Year
Reduce interchange to 20. No interchange unless a stop in play (goal or stretcher) 2 on the bench.
Coaches exploiting interchange has been very damaging to the look and quality of games in the past 15 years.
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Re: Are You Sick Of The Afl Changing Rules Every Year
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Originally Posted by
Greystache
Reduce interchange to 20. No interchange unless a stop in play (goal or stretcher) 2 on the bench.
Coaches exploiting interchange has been very damaging to the look and quality of games in the past 15 years.
I went with 40 but I could easily live with 20. Interchange has been totally hijacked by the coaches as a tactic to control the pace of the game.
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Re: Are You Sick Of The Afl Changing Rules Every Year
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Originally Posted by
Sedat
3. Get rid of boundary throw-ins. Another issue that wastes time while the boundary umpire spends 5 seconds preparing to throw it back in - this waiting creates additional packs of players converging. By giving a free to the team who touches it last it also promotes much more corridor ball movement.
Please god no.
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Re: Are You Sick Of The Afl Changing Rules Every Year
Quote:
Originally Posted by
alwaysadog
The new marking rule won't affect the speed of the game. The game evolves on its own, coaches constantly seek ways to get an edge. The reason the game has changed from the way it used to be are vastly improved tactics, conditioning and skills.
In the past rule changes only occurred when there appeared to be something of a bottleneck, not as an annual media event. So there would be attempts to overcome it. Now we interfere with the natural evolution of the game and it is often not well based.
Attempts to speed up the game through the rules do so artificially and actually change the nature of the game and limit the capacity to innovate.
The idea of a standing Rules Committee is an admission of failure, something is wrong and needs fixing, and for their part the Committee must be responsive to the need.
Soccer has far fewer rules, which by the way are very simply written, but is far more technical than AFL, and changes to it's rules are few and far between.
The problem is they are taking the wrong approach at rule changing. Instead of making 1 important rule change (remove interchange to basically positional changes only ie 20-40) they are making a lot of other changes which are making no impact at all and causing more confusion.
If a rule doesn't make it easier to make a decision and has little impact then it shouldn't be implemented.
I don't agree on soccer though, that game needs a lot of rule changes to make it watchable for me.
The whole sport is a farce because it hasn't changed at all.
Penalties, lack of decision reviews on game deciding decisions, acting, unsportsmanlike behaviour getting rewarded, time wasting, lack of scoring, overtime, penalty shootouts, corruption, and money means everything just to name a few.
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Re: Are You Sick Of The Afl Changing Rules Every Year
The issue with purposefully fatiguing players is that coaches are inherently defencively minded, and will just park the bus. The result will be slower transitions forward - or kick to kick between opposing defencive structures. Any process to purposefully fatigue players will just result in the type of athlete drafted evolving towards those most suited to exploit the rules of the day.
The game isn't a positional one anymore, and won't be ever again until rules are changed to mandate players to be in a certain area of the ground at all times. I don't want that.
Time taken to call a bounce to actually bounce it, and to throw the ball in needs to be shortened. I actually quite like Sedat's call to stop players entering the square at a stoppage until the square is cleared.
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Re: Are You Sick Of The Afl Changing Rules Every Year
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Originally Posted by
hujsh
Please god no.
Happy to have a counter view but can I ask why?
Before we change fundamentals of the game (such as with zones), we should look at ways to eliminate needless delays in the game that promote congestion - IMO boundary throw-ins are one such delay that could be removed to speed up the game and promote open play.
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Re: Are You Sick Of The Afl Changing Rules Every Year
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Originally Posted by
Sedat
Happy to have a counter view but can I ask why?
Before we change fundamentals of the game (such as with zones), we should look at ways to eliminate needless delays in the game that promote congestion - IMO boundary throw-ins are one such delay that could be removed to speed up the game and promote open play.
There's too high a reward for something that can occur by good luck, or otherwise. Possession should only be granted to a team if they have earned it.
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Re: Are You Sick Of The Afl Changing Rules Every Year
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hujsh
Please god no.
Agree. If you watch the women's game you will soon see how awful this is, plus changes the game completely.
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Re: Are You Sick Of The Afl Changing Rules Every Year
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Originally Posted by
jeemak
There's too high a reward for something that can occur by good luck, or otherwise. Possession should only be granted to a team if they have earned it.
Fair call, although the significant tightening of deliberate OOB has almost conditioned us to the natural extension of this being no throw-ins. If boundary throw-ins are to continue, can we please ensure they are executed much quicker? Why wait for two ruckmen to get to the contest and allow additional numbers to get there and clog it up?
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Re: Are You Sick Of The Afl Changing Rules Every Year
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sedat
I went with 40 but I could easily live with 20. Interchange has been totally hijacked by the coaches as a tactic to control the pace of the game.
I can't see how this will stop congestion completely. There will still be congestion, maybe for three quarters, and then the coach will apply plan b for the last quarter. Human beings are getting faster and can run longer distances and may not not to be rested much.
Recruiting will also change and we will go back to recruitment of long distance running athletes.
Sorry, limiting interchange doesn't work.
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Re: Are You Sick Of The Afl Changing Rules Every Year
I think it can't be understated the effect that the AFL's half-baked expansion had on the calibre of play being seen at the moment. The style of football played by the dominant sides (Hawthorn, Sydney and Geelong) immediately before the crippling list inequalities took hold was pretty breathtaking and at a higher skill level top-to-bottom than pretty much anything seen preivously.
By taking away access to top end talent from 16 clubs and limiting access to just 2 teams, creating a glut of talent that was both over- and under-exposed to AFL that has been about 75% ruined, and the game has been robbed of their contributions. (Without doing a hard fact-check) there's never been more flame-outs from the top end of the draft since the draft mattered than between 2010-2013.
The flip-side of this is that other teams have had to look to "alternate methods" for success. The side that Richmond won a flag with last year was STACKED with players lacking in AFL-level skills, but stoked by a total team-wide commitment to pressure acts and tackling. And a lot of clubs have taken this and followed suit; there's an unprecedented amount of footballers playing in forward pockets who are more dangerous around goals without the ball in their hands.
The AFL has made some changes to rules that are counter-intuative to a mantra of open-ended footy (banning 3rd man up being the most egregious example), but I really believe a dilution of the talent pool is largely to blame for what is really a product low on talent. Hopefully it can balance itself out over the next few years.
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Re: Are You Sick Of The Afl Changing Rules Every Year
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sedat
Fair call, although the significant tightening of deliberate OOB has almost conditioned us to the natural extension of this being no throw-ins. If boundary throw-ins are to continue, can we please ensure they are executed much quicker? Why wait for two ruckmen to get to the contest and allow additional numbers to get there and clog it up?
I'm more than happy with that as the compromise. I'd rather keep aspects of the game like the throw in and allow for neutral contests like that to occur instead of making it more like basketball or soccer where it's a binary 'one team has possession and other doesn't'.
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Re: Are You Sick Of The Afl Changing Rules Every Year
I don't know why everyone is so worried about zones. The 18's have been doing it for years and it is fine. The complaints that come through are that 'young forwards take ages to get ready for senior footy because they aren't used to having to outmark 10 players...'. Well, aren't more one-v-one contests what we want?
People who complain about the rule (3 and 2) don't understand how it works. It is easy to coach, easy to umpire and easy to comply with as a player. And before anyone mentions netball, the rule applies to a players STARTING POINT, not where they end up.
As an aside, after 2-weeks everyone loved the product because scoring was at a 20-year high. After 6 weeks, everyone hates it because scoring is down. What did everyone think was going to happen? Teams losing in shoot-outs always means they are going to lock things down/slow things down in order to get the 4points...Pre-season everyone wants to move the ball. Once the year starts, it is all "Holy Hell...stop them scoring". Sorry, but I really feel like I have heard this song before. The good teams are good to watch. The bad teams are unwatchable. And it has ALWAYS been that way.
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Re: Are You Sick Of The Afl Changing Rules Every Year
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Originally Posted by
Happy Days
I think it can't be understated the effect that the AFL's half-baked expansion had on the calibre of play being seen at the moment. The style of football played by the dominant sides (Hawthorn, Sydney and Geelong) immediately before the crippling list inequalities took hold was pretty breathtaking and at a higher skill level top-to-bottom than pretty much anything seen preivously.
By taking away access to top end talent from 16 clubs and limiting access to just 2 teams, creating a glut of talent that was both over- and under-exposed to AFL that has been about 75% ruined, and the game has been robbed of their contributions. (Without doing a hard fact-check) there's never been more flame-outs from the top end of the draft since the draft mattered than between 2010-2013.
The flip-side of this is that other teams have had to look to "alternate methods" for success. The side that Richmond won a flag with last year was STACKED with players lacking in AFL-level skills, but stoked by a total team-wide commitment to pressure acts and tackling. And a lot of clubs have taken this and followed suit; there's an unprecedented amount of footballers playing in forward pockets who are more dangerous around goals without the ball in their hands.
The AFL has made some changes to rules that are counter-intuative to a mantra of open-ended footy (banning 3rd man up being the most egregious example), but I really believe a dilution of the talent pool is largely to blame for what is really a product low on talent. Hopefully it can balance itself out over the next few years.
Completely agree with you, however, maybe the way the drafting is set up, we aren't identifying this talent?
Interestingly, Grant Thomas tweeted he could find another 200 players out there that could play AFL.
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Re: Are You Sick Of The Afl Changing Rules Every Year
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Originally Posted by
mjp
The good teams are good to watch. The bad teams are unwatchable. And it has ALWAYS been that way.
And that is why we have to stop this tinkering with the game as it only creates further problems.
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Re: Are You Sick Of The Afl Changing Rules Every Year
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mjp
I don't know why everyone is so worried about zones. The 18's have been doing it for years and it is fine. The complaints that come through are that 'young forwards take ages to get ready for senior footy because they aren't used to having to outmark 10 players...'. Well, aren't more one-v-one contests what we want?
People who complain about the rule (3 and 2) don't understand how it works. It is easy to coach, easy to umpire and easy to comply with as a player. And before anyone mentions netball, the rule applies to a players STARTING POINT, not where they end up.
As an aside, after 2-weeks everyone loved the product because scoring was at a 20-year high. After 6 weeks, everyone hates it because scoring is down. What did everyone think was going to happen? Teams losing in shoot-outs always means they are going to lock things down/slow things down in order to get the 4points...Pre-season everyone wants to move the ball. Once the year starts, it is all "Holy Hell...stop them scoring". Sorry, but I really feel like I have heard this song before. The good teams are good to watch. The bad teams are unwatchable. And it has ALWAYS been that way.
So the sky didn't fall in when zones were introduced? When they first bought it in did teams infringe very often? Did it take them a while to adjust their instincts to follow the ball everywhere. I didn't even know there were zones in the 18s until earlier this year when some one pointed it out here. I don't even know if it came in at the start of the season or introduced after.
I am nominally against zones but it's not a hard and fast No with a capital n. As you say there is a difference between players starting in zones and not being allowed out and just staring there. In a way we already have a zone with only 4 players in the middle when the ball is bounced.
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Re: Are You Sick Of The Afl Changing Rules Every Year
Get rid of the dinky kicks. A minimum of 30 metres for a mark will open up play.
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Re: Are You Sick Of The Afl Changing Rules Every Year
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Originally Posted by
Bulldog4life
Get rid of the dinky kicks. A minimum of 30 metres for a mark will open up play.
Or, it will just result in the congestion moving a little further away from the kicker.
Actually, is there a correlation between congestion and the minimum kick distance increasing?
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Re: Are You Sick Of The Afl Changing Rules Every Year
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jeemak
Or, it will just result in the congestion moving a little further away from the kicker.
Actually, is there a correlation between congestion and the minimum kick distance increasing?
You mean when they went to 15 metres? How long has that been the distance? It's seems like ages now.