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Rating our list 2020 Lewis Young 2
With the retirement of Suckling we come to the end as we finish evaluating each player on our list starting with the highest number Lin Jong down to Lewis Young.
The poll will run for a week and when your post in the poll if you can give a reason on your thoughts so we can share your insights.
At the end we'll see how our list looks in the eyes of WOOF members.
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Re: Rating our list 2020 Lewis Young 2
A few stats:
Age : 22
Height: 197cm
Weight: 96Kg
Games: 15
The Bulldogs' third pick in the 2016 NAB AFL Draft (selection 49 overall), Young was taken as key forward from South Australia but transitioned into a defensive role in his debut season at VU Whitten Oval. Just 17-years-old when drafted, the South Australian scraped into draft eligibility by just 11 days but showed major improvement this season. Young debuted in Round 17, 2017 against Carlton at the MCG, making a total of seven senior appearances in his debut season. The emerging defender played five senior games in 2019, and was one of 11 Bulldogs to make an AFL finals debut in that post-season. Young re-signed for two years in July, 2019, which means he will remain a Bulldog until at least the end of 2021.
LINK
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Re: Rating our list 2020 Lewis Young 2
*fires up a fresh batch of popcorn*
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Re: Rating our list 2020 Lewis Young 2
2021 is a big year for Young (no need for the Le anymore). He appears to be more at home as a defender but could be used as a key forward and occasional ruckman as well
Cordy, Gardner and Keath are all in his way for a regular senior spot so he has a lot to work on to become a regular senior player
If he isn't in the mix for senior selection early in the season he might struggle to get in. I hope he both earns his spot and given some chances to impress
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Re: Rating our list 2020 Lewis Young 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GVGjr
2021 is a big year for Young (no need for the Le anymore). He appears to be more at home as a defender but could be used as a key forward and occasional ruckman as well
Cordy, Gardner and Keath are all in his way for a regular senior spot so he has a lot to work on to become a regular senior player
If he isn't in the mix for senior selection early in the season he might struggle to get in. I hope he both earns his spot and given some chances to impress
In 2020 Naughton played 12 games and you could count his possessions on one hand in half of them. Two hands would be enough for the other half. Yes, I think he is a good player. Yes, I think he will be a superstar.
And yes, I think he can thank god that his name isn’t Young. (So can Bruce).
And yes, he hasn’t had a game where he has had as many possessions as Young had in his first.
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Re: Rating our list 2020 Lewis Young 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Danjul
In 2020 Naughton played 12 games and you could count his possessions on one hand in half of them. Two hands would be enough for the other half. Yes, I think he is a good player. Yes, I think he will be a superstar.
And yes, I think he can thank god that his name isn’t Young. (So can Bruce).
And yes, he hasn’t had a game where he has had as many possessions as Young had in his first.
Naughton finished 4th in the B&F in his first year without being fit the whole year. Why do you place so much emphasis on possessions for every single player? It's not a useful metric in isolation. Young sometimes gets the ball but doesn't usually do a lot with it and I'd rather he get his defensive work sorted before celebrating how many times he got the ball.
This is how we get Matt Boyd declared our best midfielder this decade...
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Re: Rating our list 2020 Lewis Young 2
I put him down for the VFL but in doing so I feel he won't get a long enough run at it to see if he makes it or not.
He is young (in age age) and if we go on the big guys take longer he hasn't reached his prime yet and he did come to us on the cusp of just being old enough to get drafted.
I don't think he has much more than being one of the foot soldiers if he did crack it and I have doubts on an extension next year.
I think the big forward can out muscle him and he falls into the intercept mold we have plenty of.
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Re: Rating our list 2020 Lewis Young 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hujsh
Naughton finished 4th in the B&F in his first year without being fit the whole year. Why do you place so much emphasis on possessions for every single player? It's not a useful metric in isolation. Young sometimes gets the ball but doesn't usually do a lot with it and I'd rather he get his defensive work sorted before celebrating how many times he got the ball.
This is how we get Matt Boyd declared our best midfielder this decade...
In reverse order.
Matt Boyd was a great player and the team was always better with him in it. He was still capable of being best on ground in his last game.
If Young gets 2 games you know he will be dropped for the next 15, unlike Gardner or Richards or Bruce etc.
To me, getting the ball a significant number of times is a good indication of how both the team and the player are going.
When someone with exceptional talent averages 7 possessions per game over a whole season it suggests the problem goes beyond the player. When a player consistently gets 20+ possessions and then is dropped, to become ‘trade bait’ discussion on WOOF, it also suggests questionable selections (not referring to Young).
To be honest I have not got a clue about how the club uses metrics. And that’s coincided with the club’s crash in the middle of 2017, and its struggle to get out of the bottom half of the ladder since then. Only 7 weekends better than 8th in 3.5 years (54 games). Pretty depressing when you see how other clubs maintain cohesion and success better.
The Dogs have not finished a season in the top four since 2010. To me that is another metric indicating how the club is going. Richmond has finished top four in the last four seasons (they live with expectations, not hope).
I would love to see an explanation of how metrics are being used. That’s why I am here. I have discovered that 1%ers are pure gold, for example. I have discovered that opposition metrics are irrelevant also. Feel free to enlighten me further, then I might enjoy 2021.
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Re: Rating our list 2020 Lewis Young 2
This thread is about Young.
I put him down as needs more time.
In 2020 he couldn't crack a game because he played very poorly in the scratch matches. I don't know if he was one of the players that came back from the COVID break out of shape, but he really needs to knuckle down and get himself super fit.
He has a great opportunity to snag a Key backman role as there aren't too many contenders. He has shown he has some talent, but he needs to be consistent and follow the coaches instructions.
I think he can make it, but it is all up to him to perform.
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Re: Rating our list 2020 Lewis Young 2
Needs more time for mine.
He has to get as strong and as fit as he possibly can, and become a reliable true defender as well as an interceptor. I can't see him forging a career forward with us simply due to a lack of opportunity in the area, though he could possibly chop out in the ruck (again though, only if fit and strong).
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Re: Rating our list 2020 Lewis Young 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Danjul
In reverse order.
Matt Boyd was a great player and the team was always better with him in it. He was still capable of being best on ground in his last game. Also played a huge part in winning that premiership.
If Young gets 2 games you know he will be dropped for the next 15, unlike Gardner or Richards or Bruce etc.
To me, getting the ball a significant number of times is a good indication of how both the team and the player are going.
When someone with exceptional talent averages 7 possessions per game over a whole season it suggests the problem goes beyond the player. When a player consistently gets 20+ possessions and then is dropped, to become ‘trade bait’ discussion on WOOF, it also suggests questionable selections (not referring to Young).
To be honest I have not got a clue about how the club uses metrics. And that’s coincided with the club’s crash in the middle of 2017, and its struggle to get out of the bottom half of the ladder since then. Only 7 weekends better than 8th in 3.5 years (54 games). Pretty depressing when you see how other clubs maintain cohesion and success better.
The Dogs have not finished a season in the top four since 2010. To me that is another metric indicating how the club is going. Richmond has finished top four in the last four seasons (they live with expectations, not hope).
I would love to see an explanation of how metrics are being used. That’s why I am here. I have discovered that 1%ers are pure gold, for example. I have discovered that opposition metrics are irrelevant also. Feel free to enlighten me further, then I might enjoy 2021.
Matt Boyd was at his best when he stopped playing in the middle and got less but more influential touches in the backline. He's a perfect case study of when less is more.
I'm sure there are plenty of things you can learn from various metrics in the AFL but there's also a lot you have to simply observe in person (or on TV as it has been this year).
For Young my questions would be:
How many possessions of his are from interceptions?
How many of his possessions were short/sideways kicks (non momentum building essentially)?
How did he perform defensively (harder one to pull up metrics on)?
Did his possessions lead to any turnovers/goals?
How did he perform as part of the overall defensive structure (no idea how you'd quantify this)?
Naughton may not have got many possessions but he wasn't the best user of the ball and clearly he did the rest of his job well down there. I'd back him down there over Young for sure.
I see some similarities between Young and Gardner with Young being more talented. Yet Gardner got more games this year. To me (and based on the occasional report here) this indicates that Young has been very bad with either form, fitness or conduct unless we believe the MC are arbitrary or play favourites (haha Roarke Smith skateboard goes brrr).
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Re: Rating our list 2020 Lewis Young 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hujsh
For Young my questions would be:
How many possessions of his are from interceptions?
How many of his possessions were short/sideways kicks (non momentum building essentially)?
How did he perform defensively (harder one to pull up metrics on)?
Did his possessions lead to any turnovers/goals?
How did he perform as part of the overall defensive structure (no idea how you'd quantify this)?
I see some similarities between Young and Gardner with Young being more talented. Yet Gardner got more games this year. To me (and based on the occasional report here) this indicates that Young has been very bad with either form, fitness or conduct unless we believe the MC are arbitrary or play favourites (haha Roarke Smith skateboard goes brrr).
Young has played 15 games over 4 seasons. He plays 2 then misses 15. No opportunity to establish himself in the team. And I cannot rely on memory, so I will have to refer to average stats Per game to respond.
Keath: kicks 6.3 marks 3.9 disposals 10 contested marks 3.8. 1% 4.5. bounces 0.1. rebounds 2 clangers 0.2
and we all love him.
Young: kicks 7.5. marks 4.4. disposals 11.6 contested marks 3.9 1% 5.8. bounces 0.2. rebounds 2.7 clangers 0.1
Better in every category.
For comparison
Gardner: kicks 3.8 marks 2.4 disposals 7.3 contested marks 2.3. 1% 6.7 bounces 0. rebounds 0.8. clangers 0.2
Young is almost double in most categories.
Now to to test my memory- Young goes NOrth/south and Gardner goes east/west.
But Gardner gets selected consistently.
(And if the staff can’t get Young on the paddock it reflects badly on them. He was a potential champion.)
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Re: Rating our list 2020 Lewis Young 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Danjul
Young has played 15 games over 4 seasons. He plays 2 then misses 15. No opportunity to establish himself in the team. And I cannot rely on memory, so I will have to refer to average stats Per game to respond.
Keath: kicks 6.3 marks 3.9 disposals 10 contested marks 3.8. 1% 4.5. bounces 0.1. rebounds 2 clangers 0.2
and we all love him.
Young: kicks 7.5. marks 4.4. disposals 11.6 contested marks 3.9 1% 5.8. bounces 0.2. rebounds 2.7 clangers 0.1
Better in every category.
For comparison
Gardner: kicks 3.8 marks 2.4 disposals 7.3 contested marks 2.3. 1% 6.7 bounces 0. rebounds 0.8. clangers 0.2
Young is almost double in most categories.
Now to to test my memory- Young goes NOrth/south and Gardner goes east/west.
But Gardner gets selected consistently.
(And if the staff can’t get Young on the paddock it reflects badly on them. He was a potential champion.)
This post simply proves that stats don't tell the story of a player. If it did, Joel Bowden would be considered 4 times the player Dale Morris was.
Lewis Young struggles one on one, the stats don't reflect that. He's 22 so still has time, but would want to push for more gametime this year. His future is as a backman given the options we now have forward of the ball.
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Re: Rating our list 2020 Lewis Young 2
A big shout out to Hotdog60 who stayed the course on these player threads
Thanks HD60
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Re: Rating our list 2020 Lewis Young 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GVGjr
A big shout out to Hotdog60 who stayed the course on these player threads
Thanks HD60
Ditto.
Great effort with a good analysis of our list, player by player and some good discussion by woofers.
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Re: Rating our list 2020 Lewis Young 2
Thanks for the comments. I post the results next weekend to see how it ended up.
:)
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Re: Rating our list 2020 Lewis Young 2
Reads the ball wonderfully through the air and can play forward. A keeper and we must play him in front of Gardner.
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Re: Rating our list 2020 Lewis Young 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mofra
This post simply proves that stats don't tell the story of a player. If it did, Joel Bowden would be considered 4 times the player Dale Morris was.
Lewis Young struggles one on one, the stats don't reflect that. He's 22 so still has time, but would want to push for more gametime this year. His future is as a backman given the options we now have forward of the ball.
This post simply proves that stats don't tell the story of a player.
....... So no statistic is ever relevant? You have dismissed all aspects of Young’s history.
If it did, Joel Bowden would be considered 4 times the player Dale Morris was.
....... Nobody in the history of football has ever suggested anything like this. Stats show both were champions..
Lewis Young struggles one on one,
...... against everyone? Give examples. And yes, I know some experienced No 1 draft picks have given him a hard time.
the stats don't reflect that.
...... More likely to take a contested mark than Cordy, Gardner and others must weaken the generality of your claim.
He's 22 so still has time,
...... True. A stat used perfectly.
but would want to push for more gametime this year.
..... Again, I am in agreement 100% All Dogs supporters probably want this.
His future is as a backman
..... Always has been the best use of his ability.
given the options we now have forward of the ball.
..... Agreed, good summation of the current circumstances.
..... And, thanks. I appreciate your time.
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Re: Rating our list 2020 Lewis Young 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by
1eyedog
Reads the ball wonderfully through the air and can play forward. A keeper and we must play him in front of Gardner.
And the only Bulldog player to equal his club record of 19 marks in his first two games is......
...... Chris Grant.
Was a talent. What have they done to him?
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Re: Rating our list 2020 Lewis Young 2
I want him to be an AFL player, but he just seems to clumsy
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Re: Rating our list 2020 Lewis Young 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Danjul
And the only Bulldog player to equal his club record of 19 marks in his first two games is......
...... Chris Grant.
Was a talent. What have they done to him?
Grant did it forward of the ball, he was a freak and the only player I've seen since that comes close is Aaron Naughton
Ghosty was behind only Dustin Martin for possessions in his first three games. The eyeball test still matters.
Lewie has a real chance to take a spot in the side, he just needs to take it because Cordy has question marks on his ability as a no 2 backman and Gardner has a million question marks in general.
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Re: Rating our list 2020 Lewis Young 2
Outside of his first few games I haven’t seen anything overly impressive. A lot of players can have a strong start to a career and then drop away when they start to pick up attention. I’m reading between the lines but I thought toward the end of his first year he looked like he didn’t want the ball. I always got the feeling he was in his own head too much.
Would love him to break those shackles (if they exist) and get a good run at. In my view we commit to him as a player or cut him loose.
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Re: Rating our list 2020 Lewis Young 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AshMac
Outside of his first few games I haven’t seen anything overly impressive. A lot of players can have a strong start to a career and then drop away when they start to pick up attention. I’m reading between the lines but I thought toward the end of his first year he looked like he didn’t want the ball. I always got the feeling he was in his own head too much.
Would love him to break those shackles (if they exist) and get a good run at. In my view we commit to him as a player or cut him loose.
He only played 7 games in his first year. And apart from the last they were excellent for an 18?? year old.
The previous week he had 7 one percenters, equal to Dale Morris. They also had the same number of possessions and marks ! Nobody questioned Morris’ endeavour.
In the game against GWS in round 22 in 2019, his first game back after being dropped for 20, he took 7 marks. That was the most for the whole team. His 17 possessions was more than double Cordy’s 7 and just behind Dureya’s 19, two popular backmen on Woof .
unfortunately he had less marks the following week, only 5. The same as Naughton. And Naughton had nearly as many disposals, 9 compared to Young’s 14.
He’s only had 2 games since then.
Your comments highlight the fact that everyone holds Young to an impossible standard.
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Re: Rating our list 2020 Lewis Young 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Danjul
He only played 7 games in his first year. And apart from the last they were excellent for an 18?? year old.
The previous week he had 7 one percenters, equal to Dale Morris. They also had the same number of possessions and marks ! Nobody questioned Morris’ endeavour.
In the game against GWS in round 22 in 2019, his first game back after being dropped for 20, he took 7 marks. That was the most for the whole team. His 17 possessions was more than double Cordy’s 7 and just behind Dureya’s 19, two popular backmen on Woof .
unfortunately he had less marks the following week, only 5. The same as Naughton. And Naughton had nearly as many disposals, 9 compared to Young’s 14.
He’s only had 2 games since then.
Your comments highlight the fact that everyone holds Young to an impossible standard.
Young needs to be given his chances especially if he is earning them, we can't keep hiding behind the "he's a young player" any longer
We've been guilty too often of bringing a player into the team, giving him a chance to impress and then having them fall back in the pecking order. Greene and Lynch came in and played and showed some promise before not really being given a game in their last 2 years. Schache signs an extension and almost immediately becomes a 'only break glass in the case of an emergency' option for us and unless Young starts to command a regular spot you would have to be concerned if he will still be at the club in 2022.
I know it's hard to get all the players into the best 22 but we need to have a plan that keeps developing players like Young
He needs to earn it but I hope we are finished with gifting under performing players like Bruce spots in the senior side unless they are earned as well
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Re: Rating our list 2020 Lewis Young 2
One way I've rationalised Young's 'fall' is that he was given a debut based on his potential, and told to go out and have fun. He did, and he played well.
Then as he played more games and was in our system for longer he was expected to hold his spot in the defensive zone, nullify more one-on-one contests to slow down the opposition, and focus more on stopping his opponent than getting possessions.
I think the most accurate stats for how effective he was in his role would be:
- his one-on-one W/L record (I think champion data only release that selectively)
- his opponents scoring/direct impact on the game
- the whole team defense - number of inside 50s conceded, percentage of inside 50s that resulted in scores
I don't think marks and possessions are how a KPD would be judged internally, and I assume his poor performance in the areas above (as well as training, strength, fitness) are what has limited his opportunities. The fact he was reinvented as a forward is a bit of an indictment on his ability to stick to defensive structures IMO, and the MC hoping that they can utilise his clear talent in another area.
So my checklist for Lewis would be small, but with plenty of challenges for him:
- get fitter
- get stronger/improve bodywork in 1v1 situations
- learn the structures and stick to them
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Re: Rating our list 2020 Lewis Young 2
Is there a place nowadays, with the focus on intensity, for the more laconic characters like Schache and Young? Clubs seem to put such a high value in intensity as a commodity it has the potential to cause intensity based segregation. You only have to look as far as the omnipresent plaudits for Bailey Smith and his obsessive work ethic to see what clubs covet nowadays.
Guess it opens a bigger more macro view / question of recruiting and testing as well.
Hard to develop it if they don't have it, but maybe that's where clubs need to improve. Bridge the gap between Schache and Smith otherwise we will lose talent like Josh more regularly.
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Re: Rating our list 2020 Lewis Young 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Grantysghost
Is there a place nowadays, with the focus on intensity, for the more laconic characters like Schache and Young? Clubs seem to put such a high value in intensity as a commodity it has the potential to cause intensity based segregation. You only have to look as far as the omnipresent plaudits for Bailey Smith and his obsessive work ethic to see what clubs covet nowadays.
Guess it opens a bigger more macro view / question of recruiting and testing as well.
Hard to develop it if they don't have it, but maybe that's where clubs need to improve. Bridge the gap between Schache and Smith otherwise we will lose talent like Josh more regularly.
Great question, I've tended to always appreciated the more intense players than the laconic ones but for some reason Young does not appear to be laconic to me. Schache might be the poster boy for laconic players but after signing him for 2 more years and recruiting of Bruce he's been pushed down the order. If he isn't reading the signs now he will really struggle.
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Re: Rating our list 2020 Lewis Young 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GVGjr
Great question, I've tended to always appreciated the more intense players than the laconic ones but for some reason Young does not appear to be laconic to me. Schache might be the poster boy for laconic players but after signing him for 2 more years and recruiting of Bruce he's been pushed down the order. If he isn't reading the signs now he will really struggle.
I guess the Tigers have set the mould haven't they with their intensity above all else game style. Guys like Castagna don't have half the talent of Schache but are 3 x premiership players.
To keep it on thread Young's struggles with his weight last season early had me thinking he was not in the "Smith" club of intensity, but having said that no one really is. Not everyone is wired like our Bailey.
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Re: Rating our list 2020 Lewis Young 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Grantysghost
I guess the Tigers have set the mould haven't they with their intensity above all else game style. Guys like Castagna don't have half the talent of Scache but are 3 x premiership players.
To keep it on thread Young's struggles with his weight last season early had me thinking he was not in the "Smith" club of intensity, but having said that no one really is. Not everyone is wired like our Bailey.
You would hope Young looks at how Bailey Williams turned things around and established himself as a senior footballer as a motivator for the 2021 season
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Re: Rating our list 2020 Lewis Young 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GVGjr
You would hope Young looks at how Bailey Williams turned things around and established himself as a senior footballer as a motivator for the 2021 season
I remember talking to Williams a few years ago and he was really worried about getting a regular game. He said there were too many players vying for the same role. I said to him he has to focus on his game, play well and an opportunity will arise.
Young has a great opportunity to cement himself in the backline as not many are putting their hand up.
My concern is, is he good enough?
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Re: Rating our list 2020 Lewis Young 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jazzadogs
- his one-on-one W/L record (I think champion data only release that selectively)
You can find this stat for every player on the AFL website. A tip for everyone - particularly Danjul - the StatsPro section of the AFL Website has great stats for every player - AFL tables is useful for only very basic information.
Young's career Contested Defence Loss Percentage is 26.8%. As a comparison Cordy is known to be one of the worst regular defenders in the league in this stat and his career average is 29.6% (but a much improved 15.8% in 2020).
Overall just looking at Young's stats he comes off pretty well. Even some of the elite KPDs in the league have career Contested Defence Loss Percentages in the low 20s. Lewis rates elite or above average in some important areas for a KPD - spoils, intercept marks, 1 %s, rebound 50s, intercept possessions. Where he is below the standard is in disposal efficiency and kicking efficiency (deadly for a deep defender), tackles, contested marks and contested possessions.
What these stats tell me is that he has performed well as an intercept defender playing a fairly unaccountable role. However he needs to develop the contested side of his game and tidy up his kicking as we all know when the likes of Cordy of Gardner spray a kick it invariably results in a goal for the opposition. He needs look no further than Alex Keath as an intercept player that has successfully transitioned to a more lock down role.
Also, as has been pointed out many, many times, there are obviously reasons why Young has not been picked more other than what he has displayed on the field at AFL level. I hold out hope he can still become a player for us, however, if he was a lay down misere to make it I have no doubt another club would have come after him in the trade period and I suspect we would have listened to any halfway decent offer.
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Re: Rating our list 2020 Lewis Young 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Axe Man
You can find this stat for every player on the AFL website. A tip for everyone - particularly Danjul - the
StatsPro section of the AFL Website has great stats for every player - AFL tables is useful for only very basic information.
Young's ..... is below the standard is in disposal efficiency and kicking efficiency (deadly for a deep defender),
tackles, contested marks and contested possessions.
He needs look no further than Alex
Keath as an intercept player that has successfully transitioned to a more lock down role.
Thanks for this, I found it very interesting and I appreciate the detail.
When I looked at Keath’s figures with us I find:
disposals - 6 ,6 , 6 , 7 , 8, 8, ...... In one third of his games he is barely getting the ball. Contested or not. Best - 15
tackles - 0,0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0. ....... That’s right. 0 tackles in half his games. In six of the others he had only 1. That’s 14 games for 6 tackles, your measure for success.
Contested marks - rounds 2 to 18 ..... inclusive Keath took only 8. And never more than 1 in a game.
Similarly, Gardner took 1 contested mark for the season. Tackles - 0, 0, 1, 1, 1, 1 ....... that’s more than half of his games.
And he got consecutive games as a key defender.
This is not criticism of Keath or Gardner, but it again highlights how in any direct comparison everyone is better than Young.
Personally I think contested marks, for example, are overrated because they are rare and that’s why they are memorable. I like the way Keath plays close to his opponents. It is his most valuable characteristics and wish Cordy would follow his example.
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Re: Rating our list 2020 Lewis Young 2
The decision to recruit and play Gardner Bruce and Keath in 2020 didn’t improve our position on the ladder from 2019. Not having Footscray play last year certainly didn’t help both Lew Young and Schache gain more senior games.
The fact that both have been retained on the list would suggest that the MC still acknowledges their worth. Neither our key defence and forwards have shown that we are good enough to progress to a final 4 contender.
Both Young and Schache have shown the potential to improve our goal to goal line as a prerequisite to our team performances from what has been shown over the past two years.
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Re: Rating our list 2020 Lewis Young 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Nuggety Back Pocket
The fact that both have been retained on the list would suggest that the MC still acknowledges their worth.
I imagine them being contracted and likely a lack of suitors played a significant part in them remaining on the list.
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Re: Rating our list 2020 Lewis Young 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Axe Man
I imagine them being contracted and likely a lack of suitors played a significant part in them remaining on the list.
Gardner is a good trainer by all accounts and would surely be on base salary, so there's the cap management issue to consider.
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Re: Rating our list 2020 Lewis Young 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mofra
Gardner is a good trainer by all accounts and would surely be on base salary, so there's the cap management issue to consider.
This was only in reference to Young and Schache.
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Re: Rating our list 2020 Lewis Young 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Danjul
He only played 7 games in his first year. And apart from the last they were excellent for an 18?? year old.
The previous week he had 7 one percenters, equal to Dale Morris. They also had the same number of possessions and marks ! Nobody questioned MorrisÂ’ endeavour.
In the game against GWS in round 22 in 2019, his first game back after being dropped for 20, he took 7 marks. That was the most for the whole team. His 17 possessions was more than double CordyÂ’s 7 and just behind DureyaÂ’s 19, two popular backmen on Woof .
unfortunately he had less marks the following week, only 5. The same as Naughton. And Naughton had nearly as many disposals, 9 compared to YoungÂ’s 14.
HeÂ’s only had 2 games since then.
Your comments highlight the fact that everyone holds Young to an impossible standard.
Did you just compare Lewis Young to Dale Morris because he had the same number of 1%'ers in a game?
Ridiculously long bow to draw that the expectations placed on him are "impossibly high". His final games of 2018 he was tentative and ineffective. Stats only work in an argument is they have substance and no. of 1%'ers just doesnt stack up in this instance.
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Re: Rating our list 2020 Lewis Young 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AshMac
Did you just compare Lewis Young to Dale Morris because he had the same number of 1%'ers in a game?
Ridiculously long bow to draw that the expectations placed on him are "impossibly high". His final games of 2018 he was tentative and ineffective. Stats only work in an argument is they have substance and no. of 1%'ers just doesnt stack up in this instance.
What I compared are actual events.
If Young has the same number of marks in a game as Naughton, then he has the same number of marks as Naughton.
Most contributors here on Woof would argue that he hasn’t because only Naughton can have the same number of marks as Naughton.
When Young had 21 possessions and 9 marks in his first game that became a fact. When Morris took 52 (consecutive??) games to beat those measures of performance he does not cancel out Young’s achievement.
Now I am quite comfortable with people using a two step evaluation of performance. First, what is the number? Second, who got it. But the second shouldn’t cancel the first because it is the wrong name.
What Young has done on a number of occasions has been creditable and that should be recognised and appreciated. When he has a poor game that should be recognised. Fair is fair.
You referred to his final games of 2018, he only had two games in 2018. Games 8 and 9 for him.
They were pretty ordinary, 10 and 9 possessions- 7 kicks in each. And 14 and 10 one percenters.
For comparison, in his 13th game Morris had 2 kicks and 3 handballs. And 8 one percenters, his equal maximum for the year.
And was selected the next week.
And how did Morris do in his games 8 and 9? 11 and 9 possessions and 2 and 4 one percenters.
The comparison is: 19 possessions and 24 one percenters against 20 possessions and 6 one percenters. Yes, I see what you mean. One player is clearly rubbish and the other is a superstar.
And in his first 17 games Morris had 8 possessions 5 times. And 9 possessions 5 times. Looked at another way, in 11 games in a season Morris could not exceed the standard that you use to dismiss Young.
It was only after he had played 20 consecutive games that Morris started to generate consistent performances that were better than what you use to dismiss Young. And many people are confident that Young won’t get to 20.
And never once in his first 17 games, did Morris kick the ball 7 times. I like the fact that Young had a natural tendency to kick.
I like Morris and he became a true champion, but that only happened because people had faith in his talent and gave him time. Even when he was tentative and ineffective and worse than Young. In my opinion Morris would struggle to get a game if he was starting out now. It is unfortunate that people use what he eventually became as an excuse to diminish others.
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Re: Rating our list 2020 Lewis Young 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Danjul
I like Morris and he became a true champion, but that only happened because people had faith in his talent and gave him time. Even when he was tentative and ineffective and worse than Young. In my opinion Morris would struggle to get a game if he was starting out now. It is unfortunate that people use what he eventually became as an excuse to diminish others.
Morris shut down Andrew McLeod in is first game, completely.
These stats comparisons simply reinforce that stats don't tell the whole story. If they did, Lynch would still be on our list.
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Re: Rating our list 2020 Lewis Young 2
Stats are not a defenders benchmark and never will be. Dale Morris had the uncanny ability to either win or neutralize most one v one contests he was involved in and that is why we love him. Lewy Young is quite poor in this area and until he improves this part of his game he will struggle to play regular senior football. (And yes I am aware that Cordy is not great in this area either).