Gotta say it’s getting harder and harder to read posts and threads on here
It’s getting more and more like FB hysteria by the day
He surrounds himself with yes men to be frank is just a guess
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Gotta say it’s getting harder and harder to read posts and threads on here
It’s getting more and more like FB hysteria by the day
He surrounds himself with yes men to be frank is just a guess
Then it’s rather futile saying the box is full of yes menQuote:
Originally Posted by azabob
I'm not sure where you've been, but this isn't a new sentiment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Remi Moses
I guess it's only natural for people to speculate after being served up unacceptable results for 3.5 years, with losses that feel like carbon copies of each other, and no changes to the coaching staff (other than Graeme Lowe leaving after the flag).
On face value, it doesn't seem like a whole bunch of new ideas are being thrown around...but as you've alluded to, neither you nor I know the real truth.
We can only go off results.
And this is the crux of the issue. A public forum wouldn't be functioning well if it didn't ask such questions. Same issues crop up for 3.5 years under the same, unchanged coaching group. It's either the players or the coaches or both. But we've turfed out some best 22 players yet we're still seeing the same issues. Why haven't we tried some coaching changes?Quote:
Originally Posted by comrade
Yeah, and I don't think it's helpful (or accurate) to dismiss ideas you don't agree with by calling it hysteria.Quote:
Originally Posted by bulldogsthru&thru
So Bevo found himself a group of assistant coaches (some of which were here before him IIRC) who are all perfectly happy to play yes-man to him and don't have any issue with how that might affect their development as coaches or career path or (presumably) ambition to coach their own AFL team?
This is the conclusion we have reached?
I'm all for new talent and ideas to mix things up but I think the yes man thing is a bit silly and to be frank disrespectful to those who work with Bevo. Unless there's something more to back it up than 'look at the results' or some further nuance to add I don't think it's an idea worth serious consideration.
Yeah I'm certainly not implying the assistants are Yes men. My gripe is that we don't seem to have any new/fresh ideas or points of view coming in that might fix the repetitive issues we have seen. The idea though of the 'Yes men' is probably less exagerated than what some are taking issue with. Bevo is the head honcho and if some assistants don't agree its tough luck like in any other industry. I'm sure some coaches have pointed out areas of improvement and things to try and Bevo does not seem at all the type to shut that collaboration down. But that is where it gets confusing. If it's all collaborative (which it probably is) then why do we continue to see the same mistakes over and over again with no apparent attempt to try something a little differently? As with any company in the real world, a new set of eyes can bring in different perspectives and I think that's what most on here are advocating.
The idea being discussed is that the performances we've served up over the last 3.5 years may be linked to a lack of fresh ideas within the coaching group, with only one poster using the term 'yes men'.Quote:
Originally Posted by hujsh
Putting aside that term, which has obviously offended your sensibilities, is it ok to question the results of the past 3.5 seasons or is Bevo beyond reproach?
Of course we have to question our performance.Quote:
Originally Posted by comrade
There are reasons for the past 3 years (wait till the season is over for this year), but I don't believe the reasons are we don't have fresh ideas. Although most of the coaching group is the same, we have dropped a few coaches and brought in a couple more, and they are going to bring some ideas as well.
Following on from 2016, we dropped the mantra of Men of Mayhem, because it is too taxing on players and not sustainable. So we changed the game plan.
2017 - We started the year well after a premiership, winning 5 of the first 7. We then had a combination of huge injuries - at least 10 on the list every week. You may say we should cover them, but the injuries were to senior players and we could only bring in young players. We then fielded a very young team for the remainder of the season. No matter what any one says either on this forum or anywhere, you can only go so far with inexperience. Just take a look at the expansion teams who had the best young talent on their list, yet they couldn't win games in their early years.
On top of that we had the internal disruption with the likes of Stringer who caused a lot of issues internally.
2018 - We lost a lot of senior players at the end of 2017 and again we had injuries to senior players. We just didn't replace the senior blokes that either retired or were injured. We did finish the year strongly with 4 straight wins and with a little luck could have been five when we lost to the Tigers by 3 points.
2019 - we played finals, but had a bad day, and perhaps we picked some players that shouldn't have been there, but overall we are in the comp to play finals and win premierships.
We can all point to Richmond and they have had a pretty good 3 years and still strong this year, but they have had hardly any injuries on their list and are a mature side, so they can bring in the odd new player to mix in with the senior players.
Overall, I am not saying Bevo doesn't make mistakes, all coaches do, but to me we need the right players on the list to take the next step.
In answering the OP, I think Bevo likes to play his own game plan, and let the other teams come for us. He trusts his players to do the job, and doesn't care if they are 18 or 32, as long as they carry out instructions.
All valid points. 2017 was a horror year on the injury front. By 2018 we had lost quite a bit of experience which shows to this day.Quote:
Originally Posted by bornadog
I suppose what frustrates me is related to your comment "we dropped the mantra of Men of Mayhem, because it is too taxing on players and not sustainable." I honestly don't see much difference to what we do now to what that style of play was. We still play an incredibly taxing style of game. We just do a worse job of it compared to 2016. Perhaps the players haven't quite adapted to whatever Bevo wants done differently.
Then "I think Bevo likes to play his own game plan, and let the other teams come for us." I agree with this. But the problem I see is that so many teams seem to have figured out our game plan and set a trap accordingly. We fall for it so many times that I think its time to do something different.
That’s true , but the accusation is unproven . It’s sort of shit Barrett trots outQuote:
Originally Posted by comrade
Then don't read them?Quote:
Originally Posted by Remi Moses
If you want to surround yourself with fluff, stick to the media content that the club puts out. This is a forum and its entire purpose is centred around discussion and debate, if you don't like differing opinions why are you here?
Take that as you may but I'm tired of reading you continually categorise posters who challenge club leadership as 'FB hysteria'. We get it - you're happy with where things are at and don't question the club and its management.
All of 3 posts above mine you seem to be defending the idea that he is actually surrounded by yes men (even bolding the sentence so it's clear). In fact you seem to do so more than once. Breaking that down you're defending the idea that these people only have a job as long as they agree with the head coach and don't raise alternate ideas or suggestions is basically attacking their character or their basic competency which, if there's nothing to back that up, I think is offensive. So imply I'm a snowflake or whatever if you want but I'm just as free to call BS as you are.Quote:
Originally Posted by comrade
However if you're saying that isn't what you meant (after all text based discussions can be a difficult medium to properly convey your intended message) I'll be happy to leave it at that.
On the topic, question Bevo's performance all you want. Question if our coaching staff are stagnant. That's fine. Most of the forum probably agrees with you there. I agree with you there. I even said in my post that I'm in favour of bringing in new coaches with new ideas. That part isn't exactly controversial. I don't think it's necessarily fair to point to the results and say something is inherently wrong with the coaches though. Lots of factors make up the performance of the club and a big one that stood out to me reading Bornadogs list is list management. We've lost a ton of senior players, not been able to replace them all via the draft and trade periods, and have had younger players who might have grown to replace them stagnate.
That said the coaches could also be a factor. It's all guess work from down here.
Maybe we should change to Richmond’s style and thus avoid the injuries. I agree they are a big factor in our lack of success but we are still playing the same way that causes them. I think we were close to Richmond’s style when we had our good run in 2019.Quote:
Originally Posted by bornadog
perhaps we picked some players that shouldn't have been there seems to be an admission of guilt.
Ugh I sound like a saints fan I keep bringing them up so much but they play a similar brand to Richmond and rarely have injuries. I normally think injuries are purely luck related but you have to admit that since 2016 we’ve copped the raw end of the injury stick. That’s 5 years running.Quote:
Originally Posted by Danjul