"Big five weeks" for Josh Schache

"Big five weeks" for Josh

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Mitch Wallis is backing former top two draft pick Josh Schache to become a key part of Western Bulldogs’ best side in 2021.

Since moving from Brisbane at the end of the 2017 season, the 23-year-old has played 29 games in three years, including just two in 2020.

Wallis said he was impressed by how Schache has returned from the festive break, but conceded it’s a “big five weeks” for the key forward ahead of pre-season games beginning in February.

“He’s come back in the fittest shape he’s ever been,” Wallis said on SEN Mornings after being asked about Schache.

“I know those are just words for the time being, but I know he’s committed to holding down a spot.

“He’s got so much talent and ability; it’s just about finding his way in the team and finding his spot. He has a big five weeks ahead of him as he’ll want to make an impression early in the season.

“We do have a lot of tall timber down there (in the forward line) and there’s really a high level of competition for spots, so if he can start well, especially in the upcoming pre-season games, I’m sure Josh (Schache) will play some games and some good footy for the club.”

The Dogs drafted exciting key forward Jamarra Ugle-Hagan, to go with the recruitment of Josh Bruce in 2019 and rising star Aaron Naughton.

Schache however is a versatile tall, capable of playing on the flanks or further up the ground at his best.

Western Bulldogs will face off against Richmond and Gold Coast in two pre-season games before their highly-anticipated season-opener against Collingwood at the MCG on March 19.

I'm a supporter of what Josh can bring us but I can see he has a challenge to get ahead of the other forwards no matter how fit he might be.

Just don't see how Schache, Bruce and Naughton (plus JUH) fit into a function forward half. I'd give Shaq a run down back and see if his height and running ability translates into something productive.

Good on you Josh. Giving himself every chance to make the team

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Originally Posted by comrade

Just don't see how Schache, Bruce and Naughton (plus JUH) fit into a function forward half. I'd give Shaq a run down back and see if his height and running ability translates into something productive.

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Bruce could always ply his trade for Footscray.

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Originally Posted by comrade

Just don't see how Schache, Bruce and Naughton (plus JUH) fit into a function forward half. I'd give Shaq a run down back and see if his height and running ability translates into something productive.

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Certainly not if we play two rucks.

I don't think Schache has the burst speed to keep up with opposition forwards. He's an endurance beast but I suspect Bruce and Naughton get first crack, JUH plays like a mid-sizer, Wally plays in a pocket and we have a combination of VDM and resting mids rotating through the remaining spots.

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Originally Posted by Mofra

Certainly not if we play two rucks.

I don't think Schache has the burst speed to keep up with opposition forwards. He's an endurance beast but I suspect Bruce and Naughton get first crack, JUH plays like a mid-sizer, Wally plays in a pocket and we have a combination of VDM and resting mids rotating through the remaining spots.

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Where do you see Hannan fitting into our forward mix?
I really struggle to see how we will set-up the forward line and this will be further complicated if we play two ruckman and assume English spends a bit of time forward

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Originally Posted by Sedat

Bruce could always ply his trade for Footscray.

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Yeah, surely he's used up all his 'first year' goodwill credits and a run of poor form will see him sent back to find some touch.

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Originally Posted by GVGjr

Where do you see Hannan fitting into our forward mix?
I really struggle to see how we will set-up the forward line and this will be further complicated if we play two ruckman and assume English spends a bit of time forward

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He's in rehab at the moment. I thought we picked him up as a pressure forward but the word from the club is that we like his ability to play 'up the ground' too. Personally I think he's 'just ok' up the ground but better deep.

We don't really pick up mature guys unless we plan on playing them so I suspect he plays when he's fit. Ed Richards would be nervous and with Wally and Hannan (and JUH), I struggle to see where McLean fits into the side when he returns too. Makes West's job of getting games harder too because for mine VDM is a lock. Love his play.

Doing the work isn't a bad thing. But the important part for Josh is what's going on in his head and will he be able to bring consistent attack on the ball/contest once the games start.

This has always been the question.

I am not surprised his team-mates are pulling for him - he is a nice person and undoubtedly talented. But he 100% has broken trust with the coaches (actually, I can't say 100% 'cos I don't really know that so I am projecting) but he could set the club bench press, 2000m and 20m sprint record all in a 30-minute period and the question would still be "can we trust him to body line the ball when the pressure is on".

Doing the extra training is a nice thing. Focussing his mental skills to get the best out of himself would have been a better use of at least some of that time.

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Originally Posted by mjp

Doing the work isn't a bad thing. But the important part for Josh is what's going on in his head and will he be able to bring consistent attack on the ball/contest once the games start.

This has always been the question.

I am not surprised his team-mates are pulling for him - he is a nice person and undoubtedly talented. But he 100% has broken trust with the coaches (actually, I can't say 100% 'cos I don't really know that so I am projecting) but he could set the club bench press, 2000m and 20m sprint record all in a 30-minute period and the question would still be "can we trust him to body line the ball when the pressure is on".

Doing the extra training is a nice thing. Focussing his mental skills to get the best out of himself would have been a better use of at least some of that time.

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Why would we have offered him a 2 year extension at the end of 2019 and not really have him in the mix by March of 2020?
I get we brought in Bruce but it appears to be a conflicting argument.
If it was a covid fitness thing then at least he has bounced back enough for Wallis to notice an improvement

He would have had some trade currency at the end of 2019 after kicking 24 goals

He really needs to improve his marking to give himself the best chance of playing senior football

Surely one of these guys needs to be tried as a tall defender? I'm not sure if Josh can do it, but I wouldn't be against trialing it. They simply can't all fit in the forward line.

Schache is a far superior footballer to Josh Bruce.

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Originally Posted by SonofScray

Schache is a far superior footballer to Josh Bruce.

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I would agree that Schache is more talented, but he needs to improve his output to get anywhere near the career of Josh Bruce.

We'd all be very happy if Schache had the career with us that Bruce had with St.Kilda.

We'd also be happy if Bruce could do some of that as well though

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Originally Posted by SonofScray

Schache is a far superior footballer to Josh Bruce.

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He’s a more talented footballer. But talent and $5 will get you a coffee.
I’m a huge admirer of Schache, but if he doesn’t play his football with will and intent he’ll be dominating the EFL in 2 years.

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Originally Posted by GVGjr

Why would we have offered him a 2 year extension at the end of 2019 and not really have him in the mix by March of 2020?

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I can't really comment as to why we would have done that.

I have said I don't understand the moves we made this past offseason and I also didn't understand what we did post 2019...but my most 2019 comments related primarily to the recruitment of Keath who I saw as primarily an interceptor into a squad that already had 3x players (Le Young, Crozier and Wood) who had that as their primary skill.

I don't really understand our recent list management but continue to look forward to the season ahead...missing the footy that's for sure.

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Originally Posted by mjp

the recruitment of Keath who I saw as primarily an interceptor into a squad that already had 3x players (Le Young, Crozier and Wood) who had that as their primary skill.

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Those three players are all around 187cm compared to Keath at 197cm. I think that makes a difference, because can can play a bit of one on one as he has done in 2020

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Originally Posted by SonofScray

Schache is a far superior footballer to Josh Bruce.

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Josh needs to re-establish himself as a genuine senior player in the eyes of the selectors and the rest should take care of itself
Bruce was a disappointment last year and has a lot to prove this year but I'm confident he will be a far better contributor

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Originally Posted by bornadog

Those three players are all around 187cm compared to Keath at 197cm. I think that makes a difference, because can can play a bit of one on one as he has done in 2020

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Young is 197 and played key back in the 2019 finals.

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Originally Posted by mjp

Young is 197 and played key back in the 2019 finals.

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He and Keath are very similar in terms of probably preferring to be tall intercept defenders but often having to adapt to 1 v 1 roles
Keath is a great kick and Young is quicker

Young and Gardner will potentially fight it out to partner Keath and Cordy as key defenders and then we have a number of other options to slot into the side including Williams, Crozier, Daniel, Johannisen, Duryea, Wood and the emerging Butler and Khamis so we are well covered for defenders and even have the option of swinging Naughton or Bruce back there if needed. On paper we have the options but are probably just a bit light on for a quality tall defender to work with Keath

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Originally Posted by GVGjr

...we have the options but are probably just a bit light on for a quality tall defender to work with Keath

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But as with your comment on Schache we always seem to want it both ways. We keep these players who *could* be the one we want/need...but they never play (alluding to Young here) - and then we need to recruit more players to fill the same role...so then guys get stuck in limbo - getting an occasional one or two game opportunity - but never establishing themselves.

Think of the guys on our list in this same category - probably 8-10 players. Now, I guess there is a simple solution - when they get a chance, 'play better'...but that is super easier said than done. And now, we have a group of running players from JJ to Bont and Macrae and now including Treloar that *SHOULD* be able to compete for a top 4-finish/premiership but we genuinely have no idea how our side looks because there are so many 'uncertain' positions.

To give credit, the club has made a real commitment to English and given him every chance to learn and grow - but that causes an equal level of disquiet amongst members and now we have recruited Martin to 'help' him...does he need help or does he - like Grundy did - simply need to 'play better'?

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Originally Posted by mjp

Young is 197 and played key back in the 2019 finals.

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Sorry, I was thinking of La Young - Brain fade

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Originally Posted by mjp

But as with your comment on Schache we always seem to want it both ways. We keep these players who *could* be the one we want/need...but they never play (alluding to Young here) - and then we need to recruit more players to fill the same role...so then guys get stuck in limbo - getting an occasional one or two game opportunity - but never establishing themselves.

Think of the guys on our list in this same category - probably 8-10 players. Now, I guess there is a simple solution - when they get a chance, 'play better'...but that is super easier said than done. And now, we have a group of running players from JJ to Bont and Macrae and now including Treloar that *SHOULD* be able to compete for a top 4-finish/premiership but we genuinely have no idea how our side looks because there are so many 'uncertain' positions.

To give credit, the club has made a real commitment to English and given him every chance to learn and grow - but that causes an equal level of disquiet amongst members and now we have recruited Martin to 'help' him...does he need help or does he - like Grundy did - simply need to 'play better'?

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Wouldn't you recruit players to fill roles rather than not fill them though? I'm not being funny, as good as Schache or Le Young have shown they COULD be they've also show how BAD they can be at the same time. So if they're guys that have shown a bit and can play senior footy, does recruiting other players who can play senior footy too put us in a worse position?

With both of Schache and Le Young being fairly inexperienced and raw, they're essentially speculative chances to make it. I get that you won't know if they can until you play them a lot, but on the other hand if you can get some years out of others in thinking they're going to better position you for success then I honestly don't see the problem with having both types on the list.

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Originally Posted by jeemak

With both of Schache and Le Young being fairly inexperienced and raw, they're essentially speculative chances to make it. I get that you won't know if they can until you play them a lot, but on the other hand if you can get some years out of others in thinking they're going to better position you for success then I honestly don't see the problem with having both types on the list.

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I don't disagree - but surely at some point you need to 'decide' what the plan is. If Young (Le) had played as a key back from his debut and we had ridden the swings and roundabouts of a developing player, then he would have played > 50 games by now. You could say the same thing about Schache who would have played 40x games with us if we had played them...

Yes, you need developing and proven players...but for players to develop they have to actually play. As for Schache being a speculative chance to make it, well - he was a number #2 overall pick in the draft so that is a bit more than a speculative selection. Young I'll agree...but if you think his development was not curtailed by the recruitment of Keath (the way that Schache's was impacted by the arrival of Bruce) then you're crazy. And where does the arrival of Treloar leave West? It might send him to the forwards...so where does that leave Weightman?

I don't think players should be gifted games, that's for sure. They should and need to earn them. But at the same time there is no point spend 100's of 1000's of $'s on talent id and recruiting if the players we select are immediately put at the back of the line...

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Originally Posted by bornadog

Sorry, I was thinking of La Young - Brain fade

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It's a momentous day on WOOF. I have quoted for posterity.

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Originally Posted by EasternWest

It's a momentous day on WOOF. I have quoted for posterity.

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Getting old :D:D

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Originally Posted by mjp

I don't disagree - but surely at some point you need to 'decide' what the plan is. If Young (Le) had played as a key back from his debut and we had ridden the swings and roundabouts of a developing player, then he would have played > 50 games by now. You could say the same thing about Schache who would have played 40x games with us if we had played them...

Yes, you need developing and proven players...but for players to develop they have to actually play. As for Schache being a speculative chance to make it, well - he was a number #2 overall pick in the draft so that is a bit more than a speculative selection. Young I'll agree...but if you think his development was not curtailed by the recruitment of Keath (the way that Schache's was impacted by the arrival of Bruce) then you're crazy. And where does the arrival of Treloar leave West? It might send him to the forwards...so where does that leave Weightman?

I don't think players should be gifted games, that's for sure. They should and need to earn them. But at the same time there is no point spend 100's of 1000's of $'s on talent id and recruiting if the players we select are immediately put at the back of the line...

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Mate it kinda seems like you disagree a little! :)

The paragraph prior to the one you quoted sums up my views on this, in that I think we've figured both Le Young and Schache aren't going to be immediately reliable for whatever reason rightly or wrongly (put Trengove in this category as well) and have recruited and favoured others because of that. I also think that Le Young was fighting it out with all of Trengove, Cordy, Gardner and Keath for only two or three spots, with he and Trengove being the guys who regularly missed out. Additionally, just because he was given intercepting responsibilities in his early games it may not mean that's what he's earmarked for, especially given our two mid-sized players in Crozier and Wood who intercept well at times (I mean we may just want the talls in defence to primarily lock it down...but I couldn't say that for sure).

I am crazy, but not because I don't think Young or Schache have had opportunities to develop taken from them. Likewise with West, and possibly Weightman this coming season, it seems we're going for a step forward after a few years of figuring out what we want to be and how we want to play (see GVGjnr's constant rambling about us having been in a rebuild phase these past couple of years :) ) possibly at their expense.

Sure Schache as a pick two wasn't speculative at the time of being drafted, but his form at Brisbane and the fact we picked him up relatively cheaply suggests that after a couple of years in the system he had question marks on him. Le Young however, was taken early age and with a good mature age year in the unders (if not selected in the draft he was) could have gone higher in the draft or not have been taken at all. I don't like the way the latter of the two has been handled, but it is what it is and I try and think about why his treatment was what it was and maybe I'm too forgiving of the MC on that front - though it's not as if he hasn't been given chances.

At the end of the day, you need backups for all roles in the team. If Schache can get some form up then he will be considered not just a backup but best 22. I am happy to have Schache and Lew Young learning and developing as KPP.

Ultimately it will be up to them and we will see if they are good enough as they grow and mature.

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Originally Posted by jeemak

Mate it kinda seems like you disagree a little! :)

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Yeah maybe - but not really.

I am frustrated because back in 2017 Young played 7 games. And Alex Keath played 6.

Now - Keath has played 48, and Young has played 15. And I wouldn't mind betting that Young was more impressive in 2017 than Keath was...

I get that Keath was coming from another professional sport and uniquely positioned to 'fight his way' through all of the 'stuff' that professional athletes deal with...but these guys started their careers at the same time playing the same role and having similar success...one is now pretty established and the other grasping to find his way (and is in fact listed as a key forward on the club website).

I understand where GVGjr is coming from when he says that we have been in rebuild mode post flag...but how in hell have some of our own developing talls been missed in this rebuild.

I don't know. I agree we need to get good players to the club...yes. But depth for the sake of depth is not good...we need a LEVEL of depth (to me, Gardner was a 'depth' based decision and I think that sort of low cost, mature body recruit who can pinch hit is smart list management) but recruiting like for like under the guise of depth just doesn't make sense...

Stevo reporting Josh Schache has injured his ankle at training today, likely putting him out for 2-3 weeks at least.

Poor bloke, even when he's putting every effort in to getting fit and claiming a spot in the 22, the world conspires against him.

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Originally Posted by jazzadogs

Stevo reporting Josh Schache has injured his ankle at training today, likely putting him out for 2-3 weeks at least.

Poor bloke, even when he's putting every effort in to getting fit and claiming a spot in the 22, the world conspires against him.

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He had at least three lots of injuries last season and just couldn't get back into the team.

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Originally Posted by bornadog

He had at least three lots of injuries last season and just couldn't get back into the team.

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Going to be an even harder team to crack into this year. Perhaps we trial him as a defender like Darcy Moore - not sure he has the competitiveness for it though..,,

Good week to kick 6 in the VFL. I dare say we should be conservative with Naughton, so Schache has the confidence and opportunity. Just bring the intensity and rest falls in place. Just.