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Scratch match wrap | Dogs v Lions
Scratch match wrap | Dogs v Lions
https://i.postimg.cc/x8jkJv3F/HERO-100820-Gia.jpg
A determined second-half fightback almost saw the Western Bulldogs reel in the Brisbane Lions in a Saturday afternoon scratch match.
The Lions led all day – at one stage by 26 points early in the third term – before the Bulldogs finished strongly to fall just one point short.
Rhylee West impressed around the contest, as did big man Jordon Sweet, while forwards Ben Cavarra and Tory Dickson both kicked three goals.
“In terms of the actual contest, we got a nice even game – a few stoppages, some finishing and some good moments from most of our players,” Bulldogs’ development manager, Jamie Maddocks, said.
“We know that Brisbane’s got great depth and their NEAFL team went through last year undefeated.
“It was good for ‘Gia’ to bring that up at the last break just to say, ‘let’s give this a nudge and see what happens’.
“We fell just short, but the effort and adventure was there for us to do it, which was pleasing.”
In a fluctuating final term, the Bulldogs twice found themselves within a kick.
Goals to Billy Gowers and Cavarra brought the Bulldogs within one point, before the Lions responded with two goals of their own.
A courageous back-with-the-flight mark from Buku Khamis helped inspire a frantic finish, with Cavarra and Dickson each kicking their third goals, as the Bulldogs controlled the final minutes but couldn’t find the match-winning major.
Jamie Maddocks on the midfield…
“Rhylee West was good, he had an impressive second half. He had some really good moments helping us to win the ball to the outside. Jordon Sweet gave our mids first use around the contest, which was nice.
We needed Sweety to play that big man’s game – he helps players like Rhylee West and Billy Gowers get their hands on the ball. He was dominant and around the ground was there to compete which was good to see.”
On the forwards…
“It was good to see Ben Cavarra finish in front of goal and Tory Dickson hit the scoreboard as well.
Ben has had his opportunities the past few weeks but hasn’t quite nailed the shots. He’s been working really hard on it and it was great to see him get reward for effort and finish some tight ones. It was nice to see Dicko get out into some really good spots and do what he does with his finishing.”
On the backs…
“Buku Khamis has been working really hard and has taken so many strides in his game, both defensively and offensively. He’s running up the ground now and trying to help out on offense. It was a great mark from him and to see him go forward and have no hesitation shows where he’s at with his game, he’s high on confidence.
All our key backs, the way they communicated and helped to keep the ball in our half was really impressive.”
WESTERN BULLDOGS 2.2 3.6 7.11 11.13 (79)
BRISBANE LIONS 3.0 7.1 10.5 12.8 (80)
Goals: Cavarra 3, Dickson 3, Weightman, Sweet, La. Young, R. Smith, Gowers
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Re: Scratch match wrap | Dogs v Lions
Hope Cavarra gets a decent run at it, can't understand how he's only been given one crack.
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Re: Scratch match wrap | Dogs v Lions
That’s awesome to hear about Buku.
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Re: Scratch match wrap | Dogs v Lions
Sweet dominating around the ground and giving our mids first use.
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Re: Scratch match wrap | Dogs v Lions
This is what we should be hearing about our senior back men
On the backs…
“Buku Khamis has been working really hard and has taken so many strides in his game, both defensively and offensively. He’s running up the ground now and trying to help out on offense. It was a great mark from him and to see him go forward and have no hesitation shows where he’s at with his game, he’s high on confidence.
In most instances it's not just a case of nullifying an opponent
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Re: Scratch match wrap | Dogs v Lions
Quote:
Originally Posted by
1eyedog
Sweet dominating around the ground and giving our mids first use.
Yep, time to give him a go. English is 100% cooked at the moment.
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Re: Scratch match wrap | Dogs v Lions
Quote:
Originally Posted by
1eyedog
Sweet dominating around the ground and giving our mids first use.
To be fair Brisbane have no fit ruckmen left so he probably wasn't up against much. Good to that he did well around the ground though which is obviously his biggest drawback as compared to English.
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Re: Scratch match wrap | Dogs v Lions
Wonder if we'll give Buku a shot at AFL level?
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Re: Scratch match wrap | Dogs v Lions
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Bulldogs Bite
Wonder if we'll give Buku a shot at AFL level?
Who does he come in for? Gardner? Wood? He could play the Crozier role but he's too small to play on the bigs.
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Re: Scratch match wrap | Dogs v Lions
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Bulldogs Bite
Wonder if we'll give Buku a shot at AFL level?
The wrap has a Bevo "lets give him a game" vibe about it.
Unfortunately there is no independent view of how they are actually going.
Looks like Dickson might be ready to go and West could come in as well.
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Re: Scratch match wrap | Dogs v Lions
Got a feeling Buku might get a look
It’s so difficult to pick a side I’d think
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Re: Scratch match wrap | Dogs v Lions
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bulldog Joe
The wrap has a Bevo "lets give him a game" vibe about it.
Unfortunately there is no independent view of how they are actually going.
Looks like Dickson might be ready to go and West could come in as well.
At least if we play Khamis it will provide a chance to say 'how young and inexperienced we are'
There was an email to Whateley this morning asking the question of how much longer can the Bulldogs hide behind the young and inexperienced excuses. Whateley read it a couple of times
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Re: Scratch match wrap | Dogs v Lions
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GVGjr
At least if we play Khamis it will provide a chance to say 'how young and inexperienced we are'
There was an email to Whateley this morning asking the question of how much longer can the Bulldogs hide behind the young and inexperienced excuses. Whateley read it a couple of times
Whateley would have read that with glee. He has mentioned a couple of times over the past 1-2 months the bulldogs are young by choice.
Kane Cornes also gave us a serve about the gap between our best and worst and our poor win / loss record since 2017.
I hope the heat is continued to be applied in the media.
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Re: Scratch match wrap | Dogs v Lions
M.Lloyd said we had a soft underbelly and we turn our toes up when the going gets tough.
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Re: Scratch match wrap | Dogs v Lions
Quote:
Originally Posted by
azabob
I hope the heat is continued to be applied in the media.
Why?
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Re: Scratch match wrap | Dogs v Lions
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GVGjr
There was an email to Whateley this morning asking the question of how much longer can the Bulldogs hide behind the young and inexperienced excuses. Whateley read it a couple of times
What rubbish by Whateley to read that out. I don't see anyone hiding behind inexperience excuses, certainly not this year.
Currently our team is fairly well balanced with age now, but I am worried about the second tier ie 50 to 100 and their further development.
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Re: Scratch match wrap | Dogs v Lions
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bornadog
Why?
Because since October 2nd 2016 our club has gone backwards.
We have lost more games than we have won.
It is likely we will miss the finals once again.
Questions need to be asked and answered.
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Re: Scratch match wrap | Dogs v Lions
Quote:
Originally Posted by
azabob
Because since October 2nd 2016 our club has gone backwards.
We have lost more games than we have won.
It is likely we will miss the finals once again.
Questions need to be asked and answered.
BY the media, no thanks, they are an absolute rabble. For any reviews, they must be done internally and no media.
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Re: Scratch match wrap | Dogs v Lions
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hotdog60
M.Lloyd said we had a soft underbelly and we turn our toes up when the going gets tough.
he's right
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Re: Scratch match wrap | Dogs v Lions
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bornadog
BY the media, no thanks, they are an absolute rabble. For any reviews, they must be done internally and no media.
Media brings the heat on the club.
Members watch and read media material. Members will the put pressure on the club (if it isn’t already via WOOF ;) )
As a small club we get away with a lot more than the bigger clubs. It works the other way around too but at the moment we need the blowtorch. If we were Collingwood the media would have lynched us and Bevo by now.
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Re: Scratch match wrap | Dogs v Lions
Quote:
Originally Posted by
comrade
Hope Cavarra gets a decent run at it, can't understand how he's only been given one crack.
I have only seen him in the Collingwood game and being blunt I don't think he has the necessary tool etc to be the effective small forward. Is he better than Wallis? Is he better than Lloyd? where is Cavarra's point of difference that makes him a player that we can bring in. He's not fast. He is not a great mark relative to his size. Are his defensive skills good enough to compensate for all of this?
To me if you look at who played the small forward role in 2016 it was Clay Smith and Picko - is Cavarra in their league?
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Re: Scratch match wrap | Dogs v Lions
Quote:
Originally Posted by
FrediKanoute
I have only seen him in the Collingwood game and being blunt I don't think he has the necessary tool etc to be the effective small forward. Is he better than Wallis? Is he better than Lloyd? where is Cavarra's point of difference that makes him a player that we can bring in. He's not fast. He is not a great mark relative to his size. Are his defensive skills good enough to compensate for all of this?
To me if you look at who played the small forward role in 2016 it was Clay Smith and Picko - is Cavarra in their league?
He's one of the fastest guys on the list.
Not sure you can take anything from a game where we were completely belted all night with the ball rarely going forward.
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Re: Scratch match wrap | Dogs v Lions
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bulldogsthru&thru
Media brings the heat on the club.
You have to be kidding, FMD I don't want to have anything to do with the media, they are poisonous.
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Re: Scratch match wrap | Dogs v Lions
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bornadog
What rubbish by Whateley to read that out. I don't see anyone hiding behind inexperience excuses, certainly not this year.
Currently our team is fairly well balanced with age now, but I am worried about the second tier ie 50 to 100 and their further development.
Part of his job on SEN is to engage the supporters and he read that contribution out early in the show. I think his belief is that we are there by choice. He wasn't damning about it but it does raise a bit of a question about where we are heading
Why are you so critical of it? It's just a question or observation
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Re: Scratch match wrap | Dogs v Lions
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GVGjr
Part of his job on SEN is to engage the supporters and he read that contribution out early in the show. I think his belief is that we are there by choice. He wasn't damning about it but it does raise a bit of a question about where we are heading
Why are you so critical of it? It's just a question or observation
Because it doesn't address anything. If he wanted to be critical, look at the players and the deficiencies and comment on that. Or the performance of say X player. Or maybe if he wants to talk about the young players, then discuss how has this happened, like we have on WOOF.
It's his show I guess and I just think it adds no value.
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Re: Scratch match wrap | Dogs v Lions
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Bulldogs Bite
Wonder if we'll give Buku a shot at AFL level?
I would have thought both Young's would have had better claims for a spot and I wonder what Khamis might have done better than them?
It will be a huge story if happens.
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Re: Scratch match wrap | Dogs v Lions
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bornadog
You have to be kidding, FMD I don't want to have anything to do with the media, they are poisonous.
Well it is the media’s job to represent the view of the public, publicly to those in power. Put them under the microscope so that they don’t abuse positions of power. Granted they do a poor job of it these days (lets not go there) but the majority of commentary of bulldogs supporters here and elsewhere is one of frustration with our stagnation. The club needs to feel that heat.
We could be 15th in a couple of weeks. 2016 aside that is not good enough.
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Re: Scratch match wrap | Dogs v Lions
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bornadog
What rubbish by Whateley to read that out. I don't see anyone hiding behind inexperience excuses, certainly not this year.
Currently our team is fairly well balanced with age now, but I am worried about the second tier ie 50 to 100 and their further development.
In Beveridge press conference after the Brisbane game he said we were immature. He has made numerous references to our youth.
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Re: Scratch match wrap | Dogs v Lions
Quote:
Originally Posted by
azabob
In Beveridge press conference after the Brisbane game he said we were immature. He has made numerous references to our youth.
Do you think we are immature?
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Re: Scratch match wrap | Dogs v Lions
Of course we have been young by choice and continue to hide behind it. It is the most obvious obseravtion about the side and is backed by facts. Sure we've had some injuries, but when push comes to shove, we'd rather pick players with less than 5 games experience then pick our depth players WITH experience or mature bodies.
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Re: Scratch match wrap | Dogs v Lions
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ozza
Of course we have been young by choice and continue to hide behind it. It is the most obvious obseravtion about the side and is backed by facts. Sure we've had some injuries, but when push comes to shove, we'd rather pick players with less than 5 games experience then pick our depth players WITH experience or mature bodies.
Who are these players you talk about? What facts do you talk about?
List of players with more than 100 games:
8 |
Trengove, Jackson |
186 |
29yr 9mth |
2 Nov 1990 |
197cm |
97kg |
Calder Cannons |
Defender |
1 |
Suckling, Matthew |
177 |
32yr |
25 Jul 1988 |
187cm |
85kg |
Wagga Tigers |
Defender |
10 |
Wood, Easton |
168 |
30yr 11mth |
4 Sep 1989 |
187cm |
86kg |
Camperdown |
Defender |
11 |
Macrae, Jackson |
152 |
26yr |
3 Aug 1994 |
191cm |
85kg |
Oakleigh Chargers |
Midfield |
3 |
Wallis, Mitchell |
144 |
27yr 9mth |
24 Oct 1992 |
186cm |
85kg |
Calder Cannons |
Midfield
Forward |
21 |
Liberatore, Thomas |
141 |
28yr 2mth |
16 May 1992 |
183cm |
83kg |
Calder Cannons |
Midfield |
4 |
Bontempelli, Marcus |
138 |
24yr 8mth |
24 Nov 1995 |
193cm |
93kg |
Northern Knights |
Midfield |
39 |
Johannisen, Jason |
137 |
27yr 9mth |
8 Nov 1992 |
180cm |
82kg |
East Fremantle |
Defender |
15 |
Duryea, Taylor |
132 |
29yr 3mth |
24 Apr 1991 |
179cm |
80kg |
Murray Bushrangers |
Defender |
7 |
Hunter, Lachlan |
131 |
25yr 7mth |
13 Dec 1994 |
183cm |
82kg |
Western Jets |
Midfield |
17 |
Bruce, Josh |
124 |
28yr 2mth |
8 Jun 1992 |
197cm |
101kg |
Canberra |
Forward |
9 |
Crozier, Hayden |
117 |
26yr 7mth |
24 Dec 1993 |
185cm |
79kg |
Eastern Ranges |
Defender |
29 |
Dickson, Tory |
113 |
32yr 10mth |
26 Sep 1987 |
184cm |
85kg |
Bendigo Bombers |
Forward |
35 |
Daniel, Caleb |
102 |
24yr 1mth |
7 J |
Who should be playing and is currently available?
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Re: Scratch match wrap | Dogs v Lions
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ozza
Of course we have been young by choice and continue to hide behind it. It is the most obvious obseravtion about the side and is backed by facts. Sure we've had some injuries, but when push comes to shove, we'd rather pick players with less than 5 games experience then pick our depth players WITH experience or mature bodies.
I don't think this helps us develop or build the list either.
Playing Lewis and Lachlan Young and the likes of Greene might have been better for the team
Why do you think we've gone down the option of picking the draftees rather than some of the other younger players?
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Re: Scratch match wrap | Dogs v Lions
How about looking at the list above and telling me who are the guys that should be playing? There are only two players that haven't featured the whole season, Trengove (1 game) and Dickson.
Instead of posters having a go at the club for being young, tell me who are the players they wish to see who will not make us young.
50 to 100 game players:
22 |
Lloyd, Sam |
87 |
30yr 5mth |
3 Mar 1990 |
180cm |
81kg |
Frankston |
Forward |
16 |
McLean, Toby |
86 |
24yr 6mth |
31 Jan 1996 |
180cm |
79kg |
Oakleigh Chargers |
Forward |
12 |
Cordy, Zaine |
81 |
23yr 9mth |
27 Oct 1996 |
193cm |
90kg |
Geelong Falcons |
Defender |
5 |
Dunkley, Josh |
71 |
23yr 7mth |
9 Jan 1997 |
190cm |
88kg |
Gippsland Power |
Midfield |
46 |
Jong, Lin |
64 |
27yr 2mth |
4 Jun 1993 |
188cm |
87kg |
Oakleigh Chargers |
Midfield |
31 |
Dale, Bailey |
58 |
24yr |
22 Jul 1996 |
183cm |
82kg |
Dandenong Stingrays |
Forward |
13 |
Schache, Josh |
56 |
22yr 11mth |
21 Aug 1997 |
199cm |
94kg |
Murray Bushrangers |
Forward |
34 |
Williams, Bailey |
52 |
22yr 10mth |
10 Oct 1997 |
187cm |
85kg |
Glenelg |
Defender |
20 |
Richards, Ed |
51 |
21yr 1mth |
3 Jul 1999 |
185cm |
79
|
All playing except Jong and Schache
I don't get why there is this commentary that we are purposely playing young players? We are picking players that are available.
If we play players in the last batch, ie 0 to 50, we will be even more inexperienced????
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Re: Scratch match wrap | Dogs v Lions
Best 22 players -Hunter (131) Jong (64), Suckling (177) Duryea (132) have experience but are either injured or out due to other circumstances.
These are facts.
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Re: Scratch match wrap | Dogs v Lions
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bornadog
Best 22 players -Hunter (131) Jong (64), Suckling (177) Duryea (132) have experience but are either injured or out due to other circumstances.
These are facts.
It is also a fact that we have opted for a younger list.
For varying reasons we have moved on capable players in Hamling, Roughead, Dahlhaus and Stringer but kept players on the list that the coach wouldn't play such as Roberts and Campbell as well as the extraordinary time we have retained rookies like Roarke Smith and Brad Lynch as we did with Josh Prudden.
We could have picked up a delisted free agent like Ricky Henderson or Lachie Henderson instead of hanging on to some of those out of loyalty. There have been opportunities to add more experience, but we have chosen not to do so.
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Re: Scratch match wrap | Dogs v Lions
I think it's pretty clear that we have chosen to be young through list management decisions.
Given the young list there has been little the selectors can do from week to week to increase the age and experience of the team.
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Re: Scratch match wrap | Dogs v Lions
Its not necessarily about players over 100 games experience. We all know there is more grey area to it BAD. Often it is about choosing the debutant off the back of no form rather than the 2-4 year player who is moved to no-man's land.
We acquired Schache, yet we choose not to play him. If he has one bad game, he is straight out, whereas others get countless chances to prove they don't cut it.
Lewis Young debuted in 2017 and played 7 games. In the following 3 years has played only 8 more games in total. Yet we choose to put Gardner in on the back of proving NOTHING, and looking completely at sea in each and every game.
Tory Dickson has seemingly vanished. But Gowers and Weightman are given 3 chances each. Why keep Tory on the list if players significantly inferior to him and this point in time are preferred. And what was the thinking around drafting a mature age player in Cavarra?
We went after Trengove, now have put a line through him because he doesn't cover the ground. I'm not a big fan, but against sides with very tall forwards, surely he should be getting considered on a horses for courses basis.
We're incredibly keen to rush in some debutants, by far less keen to stick with players in their 2-4 year range and get some continuity into them. But continuity is not really our thing this year clearly. Last year we were the 3rd highest scoring team in the league, and most of our big scores came after a sustained run where the forward line had some continuity as a group with Schache, Dickson, Dale, Naughton and Lloyd all there.
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Re: Scratch match wrap | Dogs v Lions
Ozza's point is bang on and is what the numerous posts displaying frustration with a young selection bias mean.
It's a combination of our inability to develop players once on the list, a lack of valueing older role players, and a love for throwing the newest kids at the club into the mix.
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Re: Scratch match wrap | Dogs v Lions
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Axe Man
Given the young list there has been little the selectors can do from week to week to increase the age and experience of the team.
Agree
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Axe Man
I think it's pretty clear that we have chosen to be young through list management decisions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bulldog Joe
It is also a fact that we have opted for a younger list.
For varying reasons we have moved on capable players in Hamling, Roughead, Dahlhaus and Stringer but kept players on the list that the coach wouldn't play such as Roberts and Campbell as well as the extraordinary time we have retained rookies like Roarke Smith and Brad Lynch as we did with Josh Prudden.
We could have picked up a delisted free agent like Ricky Henderson or Lachie Henderson instead of hanging on to some of those out of loyalty. There have been opportunities to add more experience, but we have chosen not to do so.
We had a number of players either retired or delisted. The List manager has tried hard to bring in experience and over the last 4 odd years we have brought in Suckling, Duryea, Trengove, Lloyd, Bruce and Keath (mature not in games though).
My point is, we aren't trying to be heroes by picking the youngest team every week, it is just the make up we have ended with, and I really don't understand why posters keep harping on about it, or writing to Gerard complaining we are hiding behind it or making it an excuse. It is just a factor we are stuck with for now.
Team selection is a different issue see thread here
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Re: Scratch match wrap | Dogs v Lions
Quote:
Originally Posted by
soupaman
Ozza's point is bang on and is what the numerous posts displaying frustration with a young selection bias mean.
It's a combination of our inability to develop players once on the list, a lack of valueing older role players, and a love for throwing the newest kids at the club into the mix.
But it is not a young selection bias, we don't have any experienced players like I laid out?