Dual premiership Crow refuses COVID-19 vaccination (AFLW)

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PREMIERSHIP Crow Deni Varnhagen has told the club she currently does not want to receive a COVID-19 vaccination.

Varnhagen, 28, works as a nurse away from football.

While the Victorian Government required all Victorian AFLW footballers to have received their first vaccination by Friday, October 15 as a condition of their work permits, no such rule has been made by their South Australian counterparts.

However, South Australian healthcare workers need to have their first vaccination by November 1.

"We encourage all players and staff to receive a vaccination," an Adelaide spokesperson told womens.afl.

"We will comply with all rules and regulations set down by both the Government and the AFL."

The AFL’s vaccination policy is currently being finalised and the League said that it would continue to provide education for players and staff across AFL and AFLW programs.

The AFL said it would not disclose the vaccination status of individual players or staff as it respected medical confidentiality.

Varnhagen, an inaugural Crow, has played 31 games across five seasons, including two premierships, having battled knee and quad issues in the past few years.

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https://www.womens.afl/news/74985

Bit of a contrast to our very publicly fully vaccinated AFLM squad.

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Originally Posted by Daughter of the West

https://www.womens.afl/news/74985

Bit of a contrast to our very publicly fully vaccinated AFLM squad.

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Just my opinion but it's a shame that so many aren't prepared to look at the bigger picture and get with the programme.
The scary part is that she also works as a nurse.

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Originally Posted by GVGjr

Just my opinion but it's a shame that so many aren't prepared to look at the bigger picture and get with the programme.
The scary part is that she also works as a nurse.

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I don’t know why but I know a few nurses who are refusing the vaccine. It’s concerning and I’m assuming these nurses aren’t working in ICU or covid wards.

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Originally Posted by GVGjr

The scary part is that she also works as a nurse.

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That's the part that surprised me the most. Any of my girlfriends who are nurses/in allied health were first out of the blocks to get jabbed and were then flat out nagging their partners.

You'd want nurses to be on board with medical science. Guess it's just a paycheck for some people (but geez there must be easier ways to get a paycheck)

To be fair, she's probably done her own research............ :p

And this is where it gets tricky, people think that because they understand some elements of medical science they understand others sufficiently to contradict what experts in a particular field might put out there.

See Zach Bush as an example of how dangerous this type of thinking can be.

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Originally Posted by jeemak

To be fair, she's probably done her own research............ :p

And this is where it gets tricky, people think that because they understand some elements of medical science they understand others sufficiently to contradict what experts in a particular field might put out there.

See Zach Bush as an example of how dangerous this type of thinking can be.

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It's not like she hasn't got access to the right people so she can make an informed decision so hopefully this is her assessment based on medical advice not what she has read on facebook.

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Originally Posted by GVGjr

It's not like she hasn't got access to the right people so she can make an informed decision so hopefully this is her assessment based on medical advice not what she has read on facebook.

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Medical advice would have said get vaccinated. There is almost no reason for a medical exemption according to medical experts.

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Originally Posted by bornadog

Medical advice would have said get vaccinated. There is almost no reason for a medical exemption according to medical experts.

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Based on feedback from some people I know, their parents said their Doctors weren't convinced on the Vaccinations effectiveness so on that advice they haven't had their first dose. They need to speak to other Doctors.

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Originally Posted by jeemak

To be fair, she's probably done her own research............ :p

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Hoo boy, am I sick of those people.

We had this lovely pair of ladies that were our neighbours and I adored spending time with them. It was like being with two Nannas at once, but the good kind of Nanna. I used to say to my partner that after spending time with them I felt like I'd had my soul filled up.

Anyway, we moved (not far away, but not a few houses any more) and see less of them now. One of them is a former nurse and you can imagine my dismay when she rolled out all the usual conspiracy theorist tropes when the pandemic topic came up. It actually broke my heart a bit.

Anyway, sorry for the wandering vignette but why are the "do some research" crowd so disbelieving when the research you've done (ya know, the readily available via Google, clinically backed stuff) is presented to them?

Have I not "done some research"?

I believe she does (or used to....) work in ICU as well. But apparently her Mother is into natural therapy...


She will be unemployed from her job and finished as an AFLW footballer in a few weeks if she doesnt get jabbed


What a goose.

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Originally Posted by EasternWest

Hoo boy, am I sick of those people.

We had this lovely pair of ladies that were our neighbours and I adored spending time with them. It was like being with two Nannas at once, but the good kind of Nanna. I used to say to my partner that after spending time with them I felt like I'd had my soul filled up.

Anyway, we moved (not far away, but not a few houses any more) and see less of them now. One of them is a former nurse and you can imagine my dismay when she rolled out all the usual conspiracy theorist tropes when the pandemic topic came up. It actually broke my heart a bit.

Anyway, sorry for the wandering vignette but why are the "do some research" crowd so disbelieving when the research you've done (ya know, the readily available via Google, clinically backed stuff) is presented to them?

Have I not "done some research"?

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I've worked with Scientists supporting them for over 20 years, these guys aren't driving Mercedes and BMWs.

Question big pharma yes I get that, money and power is a great motivator for many; I can assure you though from my experience nearly all do the research because they care.

Google scholar, peer reviewed studies. You can't go wrong.

Edit : And avoid anything Murdoch, the brain washing is real.

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Originally Posted by Throughandthrough

I believe she does (or used to....) work in ICU as well. But apparently her Mother is into natural therapy...


She will be unemployed from her job and finished as an AFLW footballer in a few weeks if she doesnt get jabbed


What a goose.

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Yes. This, at least among nurses, seems to be a primary reason to not get the vaccine. They believe in all natural medicine. Only natural things should go in the body. I understand this perspective. The less manufactured/altered stuff you put in your body the better. But I’m also aware this strategy isn’t practical. Modern medicine has changed the world and cured diseases. I’d also bet my life savings that these people aren’t strict with this rule and they pick and choose when to use it.

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Originally Posted by bulldogsthru&thru

Yes. This, at least among nurses, seems to be a primary reason to not get the vaccine. They believe in all natural medicine. Only natural things should go in the body. I understand this perspective. The less manufactured/altered stuff you put in your body the better. But I’m also aware this strategy isn’t practical. Modern medicine has changed the world and cured diseases. I’d also bet my life savings that these people aren’t strict with this rule and they pick and choose when to use it.

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Like alcohol.

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Originally Posted by GVGjr

Just my opinion but it's a shame that so many aren't prepared to look at the bigger picture and get with the programme.
The scary part is that she also works as a nurse.

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Agree. Not a great headline for the AFL.

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Originally Posted by GVGjr

Based on feedback from some people I know, their parents said their Doctors weren't convinced on the Vaccinations effectiveness so on that advice they haven't had their first dose. They need to speak to other Doctors.

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Skeptical on this. Not on whether they told you this but I think something must be lost somewhere in translation.

GPs should be telling you if the vaccine is safe for you eg any existing conditions that can cause complications. I don't believe they're the experts when it comes to the effectiveness of these vaccines. They can have opinions, most likely more informed than most of us, but it's pretty clear the vaccines are effective.

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Originally Posted by Grantysghost

Like alcohol.

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Yep. Amongst a whole heap of other things that they’d either ignore their beliefs with or just flat out not even question what’s in it.

And then there’s how things might change if they found themselves in a life threatening situation. Their opinion on medicine might change then.

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Originally Posted by Throughandthrough

I believe she does (or used to....) work in ICU as well. But apparently her Mother is into natural therapy...

She will be unemployed from her job and finished as an AFLW footballer in a few weeks if she doesnt get jabbed

What a goose.

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Watched the Caulfield Cup on Saturday and after the race the trainer was thanking staff etc and mentioned including the three I had to let go because they refused to be vaccinated.

All well and good to get on your high moral ground, but you will be unemployed and locked out of many places.

EW you were right about this bloke:

Melbourne Demons AFL premiership winner Tom McDonald says mandatory vaccines 'wrong'

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Originally Posted by bornadog

EW you were right about this bloke:

Melbourne Demons AFL premiership winner Tom McDonald says mandatory vaccines 'wrong'

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Red pilled, right wing, MRA dickhead. He was always going to be "one of those" as well.

I saw part of the interview only so stand to be corrected, but he didn't mentioned that he wasn't vaccinated. Surprised that a guy with such an objection would be like the rest of the sheeple. Wonder why?

Where Happy Days anyway? His takes are always way funnier than mine.

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Originally Posted by EasternWest

Red pilled, right wing, MRA dickhead. He was always going to be "one of those" as well.

I saw part of the interview only so stand to be corrected, but he didn't mentioned that he wasn't vaccinated. Surprised that a guy with such an objection would be like the rest of the sheeple. Wonder why?

Where Happy Days anyway? His takes are always way funnier than mine.

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Article quoted him saying he was vaccinated

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Originally Posted by hujsh

Article quoted him saying he was vaccinated

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Yes he was more objecting to the mandatory nature.

It's a interesting one, I'm torn regarding forcing people to do things and not all people that object are your typical "anti vaxxer" types, more pro the tenets of a liberal democracy.
There's also those who have been fed misinformation and are driven by fear.

There's a great John Oliver segment on conspiracy theories that I encourage everyone to watch.

https://youtu.be/0b_eHBZLM6U

It's not a tough one for me, it's about protecting our most vulnerable and that's the kind of society I want to be part of (and the reason I got vaxxed asap).

Re covid though it's such a rare event it's the only option, the fear for many being it opens the door to an erosion of freedoms which personally I don't believe to be true.

And if you're pro choice, well there is an open labour market so you can choose a different profession.

One of the Tigers AFLW players has tested positive so really if you want to run the competition without interruption they need to be vaccinated.

Also every time I see a picture from the GF* I feel crook. I need to find a Pies fan to ask how long this lasts.

He's vaccinated, but only expects mandatory vaccination for some because it's only right for it be mandatory for some but not for everyone else.

See the logic? Even though AFL players operate in an environment off the field that is highly susceptible to spreading the virus and then spreading it to the community, only frontline health workers should be forced to be vaccinated or have a "medical procedure".

Be careful GG, people aren't liking the appropriation of "pro-choice" to describe people who believe in being able to choose whether to be vaccinated. And certainly don't start using the word "segregation" to describe the exclusion of those who aren't!

I'm a bit the same in that I feel uneasy about forcing people to get the jab, and can see it from both sides. But if it's permission to play it's permission to play. If you don't like it don't play, and in the meantime protest peacefully and lobby your local member for a change to the rules.

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Originally Posted by Grantysghost

, the fear for many being it opens the door to an erosion of freedoms which personally I don't believe to be true.

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Originally Posted by jeemak

I'm a bit the same in that I feel uneasy about forcing people to get the jab, and can see it from both sides. But if it's permission to play it's permission to play. If you don't like it don't play, and in the meantime protest peacefully and lobby your local member for a change to the rules.

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When seats belts became mandatory in the 70s lots of people carried on about freedom and forcing them to be safe. The safety was not just for the driver, but the safety of their passengers. ;)

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Originally Posted by bornadog

When seats belts became mandatory in the 70s lots of people carried on about freedom and forcing them to be safe. The safety was not just for the driver, but the safety of their passengers. ;)

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I guess what I'm saying is that I can understand have empathy for people and their POV without agreeing with them. Something in society that is sadly lacking and a major reason nothing really ever gets done.

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Originally Posted by jeemak

I guess what I'm saying is that I can understand have empathy for people and their POV without agreeing with them. Something in society that is sadly lacking and a major reason nothing really ever gets done.

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No Probs.

My empathy has gone out the door, and I don't actually care. Is that BAD :D Maybe I have been in lockdown too long

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Originally Posted by jeemak

I guess what I'm saying is that I can understand have empathy for people and their POV without agreeing with them. Something in society that is sadly lacking and a major reason nothing really ever gets done.

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That John Oliver clip I posted says exactly that. Try and understand and it makes it easier to educate.

Clearly not going to work for all, but it will for some and that's a good start.

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Originally Posted by jeemak

I guess what I'm saying is that I can understand have empathy for people and their POV without agreeing with them. Something in society that is sadly lacking and a major reason nothing really ever gets done.

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Originally Posted by Grantysghost

That John Oliver clip I posted says exactly that. Try and understand and it makes it easier to educate.

Clearly not going to work for all, but it will for some and that's a good start.

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Understand what though?

I have plenty of empathy for a lot of reasons.

I have zero empathy for anyone tinfoiling about a safe, effective, clinically tested vaccine that is currently the key to getting our lives back. Zero. Nil. Zilch.

We live in a society that only works because we agree to participate, and give up some of our freedoms.

Don't want to get a driver's license.. okay don't.. But you can't drive a car. And if you do drive unlicensed there are penalties.
Don't want to get insurance... okay don't... but if you hit someone's car, you can be sued.
Don't want to wear a seatbelt... sure... but again there are penalties if you're caught.
Want to coach your kids football team, great. Get a Bluecard.. Don't want to?? Then you can't participate.

Don't want to get vaccinated against COVID.. Okay don't.. but you will have to live with restrictions, and or penalties for not doing so. And in some instances those penalties might mean you can't work in a specific industry. eg nurse, police etc..

I'm not for a harsh mandatory vaccine, but am all for their being strong restrictions, discomforts and penalties if failure to get vaccinated puts others at risk.

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Originally Posted by EasternWest

Understand what though?

I have plenty of empathy for a lot of reasons.

I have zero empathy for anyone tinfoiling about a safe, effective, clinically tested vaccine that is currently the key to getting our lives back. Zero. Nil. Zilch.

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Understand that not all of those with a contrary opinion are idiots and or are bad people.

Some do it for reasons that to them are valid.

My position is the same as yours, however the era of outrage is really devisive, there seems to be little in between nowadays.

Damn Zuckerberg!

The Oliver clip is more around conspiracy theories in general.

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Originally Posted by Grantysghost

Understand that not all of those with a contrary opinion are idiots and or are bad people.

Some do it for reasons that to them are valid.

My position is the same as yours, however the era of outrage is really devisive, there seems to be little in between nowadays.

Damn Zuckerberg!

The Oliver clip is more around conspiracy theories in general.

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Fair enough mate.

Ive also heard of those simply waiting it out until we hit 80% double dosed. They’re effectively wanting to freeload on the back of everyone else getting jabbed and hope that herd immunity will take place. There needs to be repercussions for these people.

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Originally Posted by bulldogsthru&thru

Ive also heard of those simply waiting it out until we hit 80% double dosed. They’re effectively wanting to freeload on the back of everyone else getting jabbed and hope that heard immunity will take place. There needs to be repercussions for these people.

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It's getting covid.

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Originally Posted by bulldogsthru&thru

Yes. This, at least among nurses, seems to be a primary reason to not get the vaccine. They believe in all natural medicine. Only natural things should go in the body. I understand this perspective. The less manufactured/altered stuff you put in your body the better. But I’m also aware this strategy isn’t practical. Modern medicine has changed the world and cured diseases. I’d also bet my life savings that these people aren’t strict with this rule and they pick and choose when to use it.

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allegedly she has some tattoos as well...i guess she accepted whatever gunk was chucked in her body when that was done ok..

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Originally Posted by EasternWest

Understand what though?

I have plenty of empathy for a lot of reasons.

I have zero empathy for anyone tinfoiling about a safe, effective, clinically tested vaccine that is currently the key to getting our lives back. Zero. Nil. Zilch.

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Have it your way dude.

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Originally Posted by jeemak

Have it your way dude.

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To an extent I agree that most of these people are just victims of misinformation. And for that we should have some empathy for some people. But it's very limited at this point.

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Originally Posted by jeemak

Have it your way dude.

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I don't understand this passive aggressive response, Jee. You're implying I don't have empathy for people, but empathy and lack of tolerance for conspiracy theorists are two different things.

Frankly, I'm amazed that all rational people don't feel the same way.

I'd be interested in what you think I meant that I wasn't clear on.

Legitimate question ... when you google long term effects of Covid vaccine, there is zero articles. There is plenty of information on the short term effects (flu-like symptoms etc) but nothing long term. Now, I know there hasn't been enough time for there to be long term data, but aren't all the vaccine choices based on other vaccination bases just with different protein spikes?

I'm double dosed, this is not about me ... but I don't know who to ask about my kids getting the shots. When I spoke with my doc, he said its completely safe, don't stress. I'm not an anti-vaxxer but I have no idea where to find info. I would love some WOOF suggestions on who to speak with or articles to read debunking any long-term effects :)

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Originally Posted by EasternWest

I don't understand this passive aggressive response, Jee. You're implying I don't have empathy for people, but empathy and lack of tolerance for conspiracy theorists are two different things.

Frankly, I'm amazed that all rational people don't feel the same way.

I'd be interested in what you think I meant that I wasn't clear on.

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It's not meant to be passive aggressive, but like the Cowboy out of TBL (when asks the dude whether he has to use some many cuss words) I don't really mind, and am happy to differ a bit here and not let it worry me too much. Sorry if it came off otherwise, I can see how it did.

Sure, there's willfully ignorant people, ignorant people, some selfish people and a bit in between all of those positions and apart from the first lot there's usually reasons why people are the way they are and it's not just inherent personality flaws that make them so.

There's people out there who don't trust government, believe in natural remedies and don't trust science in the same way I do because they've been brought up that way, have spent their entire lives surrounded by people who think the same way as they do, and haven't been exposed to what you and I might consider to be rational thought. To some extent you can argue that these people should/ could have done more to get diverse exposure, but that's more easily said than done.

Then you get the folks who haven't been able to put food on the table because their social contract with those they perceive to be running society has been broken. They're out of work, have limited ability to change their situation, and nothing but time on their hands to watch videos about how the government (that has failed to support them is now telling them they need to chip in and get the jab so everyone can be looked after) shouldn't be trusted. So yeah, I don't agree with them, but I can understand and have empathy as to why they might think that participation on the terms prescribed shafted them in the past and from their point of view is probably going to shaft them again.

To me the lizard people, flat-earthers and 5G (or whatever) people are in their own category, and I think we agree on that. They're not the people I'm referring to above.

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Originally Posted by Scraggers

Legitimate question ... when you google long term effects of Covid vaccine, there is zero articles. There is plenty of information on the short term effects (flu-like symptoms etc) but nothing long term. Now, I know there hasn't been enough time for there to be long term data, but aren't all the vaccine choices based on other vaccination bases just with different protein spikes?

I'm double dosed, this is not about me ... but I don't know who to ask about my kids getting the shots. When I spoke with my doc, he said its completely safe, don't stress. I'm not an anti-vaxxer but I have no idea where to find info. I would love some WOOF suggestions on who to speak with or articles to read debunking any long-term effects :)

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Not having listened to it myself Scraggers, Royal Children's Hospital (RCH) has a podcast available on Spotify called Kids Health Info. They have a brief ep they released on Friday about the latest in COVID-19 in children, and they did a longer one (42min) on Children and Covid-19 vaccines in August.

Also, Triple R community radio in Melbourne has a program every Sunday that it hosted by doctors talking all things health related called Radiotherapy. On 3/10, they spoke to Professor Fiona Russell (Paediatrician, Epidemiologist and Vaccinationologist at Uni Melb) about the impact of children returning to school after COVID restrictions, but also touched on vaccination. Unrelated, but in that same ep, they discuss concussion in community sport which I found really interesting. You can listen to the eps on rrr.org.au using their On-Demand feature.

I would just like to add that I am in no way affiliated with the RCH - I've just made a few stops to their emergency department as a parent!