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It's been a tough season so far in 2019 but........
I know many of us think we have dropped the ball on the season and it's going to be tough road ahead but in my opinion we are entering a very important little stretch that will help shape the club going forward. While I would have loved a couple of more wins I'm far from disappointed.
Careers are in the balance though and decisions will be made on who to invest time in and who will just be treading water until the end of the season
The positives
Aaron Norton - The move forward has been a brilliant one by Bevo. He has played some excellent games and we now have a genuine match winning forward signed for a long period. His marking has been a real highlight.
Caleb Daniel - I'll be honest here but I never expected him to be the force that he has been as a small (well smallest) defender. It's been another brilliant move and he so often provides great decision making and he just distributes the ball so well. I had my doubts that other coaches would have worked him out by now and exploited his lack of height but week after week he is making a difference for us
Bailey Smith - he has vastly exceeded my expectations especially given his limited preseason. He's got the pace that we need, he's physical in a contest and his skill level has looked very good. I thought he'd need to be rested and managed throughout the season but he's handled the transition from the TAC better than most of us expected. It's hard not to get excited about his future
Josh Dunkley - A return to the midfield has returned a midfield beast to us. Dunkley has some faults but he's been a strong performer and someone I hope continues to improve
Special mentions to:
Lloyd, Trengove and Crozier as recent additions via trades, Bontempelli who is one of the games genuine stars, and Hunter who despite some critics has had a good season so far
Time to Lift
Macrae - He's currently not the force he's previously been and perhaps it's a slight change in his role but he isn't at his best
Liberatore - Started off well but has faded a bit in recent weeks, we just need a bit more from him
Richards - He was sensational for us last year but he just has come close to that form. Perhaps he's another one who has had difficulties adjusting to a new role
McLean - Another player who is well down on the form he displayed last year
Wood - The captain has been almost immune from criticism and expectation for his career just now needs to adapt and lift for us.
Question marks
We know Boyd and Picken are gone but there are a number of players with questions marks against there names for 2020
Morris - The warrior who we need to finish the season off strongly. Could he get another 1 year deal?
Dickson - The sharpshooter who is struggling a bit with injuries and form
Roberts, Webb, Dale, Lynch R.Smith and Jong who have all been given chances to establish themselves but haven't quite yet. The next few weeks loom large fore them
Porter has yet to be tried but needs to get a wriggle on
Of course there are some others but attitude and effort will play a big part of who stays and goes at the end of the season
The 'balance' of the list
It's been hotly debated here and most were very comfortable with the balance of our list at the end of the trade period last year but as we enter the middle of the 2019 season I think some might have altered their view on if we have enough key position players and ruck man. Even Bevo concedes this.
On top of that we have an over supply of mid sized defenders
It's critical going forward that we strike a better balance and maybe Power and Austin start this correction with the mid season draft on Monday
Summary
I think there are a few too many supporters reluctantly considering putting their cue in the rack for the balance of the season but in my opinion there are a number of things that will play out in the next few months. It should at least be interesting.
Many on the playing list need to impress, many need to show improvement simply from a pride perspective and then there is a good chance we can turn a game on it's head like we nearly did yesterday.
Stick with us folks, there is still plenty of machinations to play out in 2019
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Re: It's been a tough season so far in 2019 but........
Really good thread.
I’d put English in the top category too if players to be excited about. He isn’t burning the world down, but he is exceeding (at least my) expectations. A decent kick in front of goal and he keeps getting stronger in marking contests and he is a player we can genuinely anchor a midfielder around.
In the lift category - is out both Wally and JJ. Wallis is great in patches but I just don’t think we’ve found the perfect spot for him. Good from inside 40 and rarely beaten in 1 on 1’s he is up an down for mine and needs to find some consistency across a season.
JJ too. Thought he was really good yesterday and were starting to see that excitement again when he gets the ball off the back flank but he seems to be inconsistent with his kicking and decision making.
Two senior players who at their very best are exceptional.
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Re: It's been a tough season so far in 2019 but........
GVGjr, I note in the OP, that Macrae, Libba and McLean are listed as time to lift. All 3 are spending significant time in different roles this season. For Libba and Macrae - inexplicably they are spending significant time forward, which oppositions must be enjoying, given how both are regarded as mids who can win clearances and accumulate possessions.
McLean seems to have been pushed out of the midfield on account of Dunkley. But what is baffling to me, is that we go from having McLean as a 25+ possession mid last season, who could get clearances, to players like Lipinski, Williams and Gowers getting opportunities at the centre bounce. I'm all for Bailey Smith getting his crack in there also, but it is very strange that McLean has fallen so far down the pecking order.
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Re: It's been a tough season so far in 2019 but........
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ozza
GVGjr, I note in the OP, that Macrae, Libba and McLean are listed as time to lift. All 3 are spending significant time in different roles this season. For Libba and Macrae - inexplicably they are spending significant time forward, which oppositions must be enjoying, given how both are regarded as mids who can win clearances and accumulate possessions.
McLean seems to have been pushed out of the midfield on account of Dunkley. But what is baffling to me, is that we go from having McLean as a 25+ possession mid last season, who could get clearances, to players like Lipinski, Williams and Gowers getting opportunities at the centre bounce. I'm all for Bailey Smith getting his crack in there also, but it is very strange that McLean has fallen so far down the pecking order.
Fully agree, I suggest there is a bit of a log jam for time in the middle and maybe there has been and expectation that many of them haven't enjoyed the same amount of time in the middle. There has to be a correlation between Dunkley's return to form by getting more time in the middle and say Liberatore just dropping back a bit while he has spent more time forward.
Our midfield depth might not be working that well for everyone
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Re: It's been a tough season so far in 2019 but........
One of the areas we need to improve on is our last quarters. For some reason we seem to fade out. Is it our fitness?
Against
* Suns started the game poorly, came flying home, but just couldn't get the win on the board.
* Collingwood - 5 points up at 3/4 time
* Freo - 6 points down at 3/4 time
* Geelong - got to within 5 points and then allowed 3 quick goals in the dying moments of 3rd qrt. Still in it in the last but gave up in the last 10 minutes.
* North - hit the front in first 10 minutes of last, then lost
Something is not right.
IF we can finish off games, there will be plenty of wins ahead.
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Re: It's been a tough season so far in 2019 but........
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bornadog
One of the areas we need to improve on is our last quarters. For some reason we seem to fade out. Is it our fitness?
Against
* Suns started the game poorly, came flying home, but just couldn't get the win on the board.
* Collingwood - 5 points up at 3/4 time
* Freo - 6 points down at 3/4 time
* Geelong - got to within 5 points and then allowed 3 quick goals in the dying moments of 3rd qrt. Still in it in the last but gave up in the last 10 minutes.
* North - hit the front in first 10 minutes of last, then lost
Something is not right.
IF we can finish off games, there will be plenty of wins ahead.
We had a full preseason so I'm not sure fitness is the issue but there were certainly some spent players yesterday but I noticed it more after North rallied and reestablished a decent lead against us. It's hard to say with a lot of confidence but we probably aren't fighting out games once they become out of reach.
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Re: It's been a tough season so far in 2019 but........
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ozza
GVGjr, I note in the OP, that Macrae, Libba and McLean are listed as time to lift. All 3 are spending significant time in different roles this season. For Libba and Macrae - inexplicably they are spending significant time forward, which oppositions must be enjoying, given how both are regarded as mids who can win clearances and accumulate possessions.
McLean seems to have been pushed out of the midfield on account of Dunkley. But what is baffling to me, is that we go from having McLean as a 25+ possession mid last season, who could get clearances, to players like Lipinski, Williams and Gowers getting opportunities at the centre bounce. I'm all for Bailey Smith getting his crack in there also, but it is very strange that McLean has fallen so far down the pecking order.
It was bizarre when North were taking the game away from us in the second quarter that we continued to put both Lippa and Smith in the same centre bounce. The bonus about 666 is that you can stop/gain momentum by getting a clearance and scoring and at the same time another clearance to the opposition can turn it into a landslide. it was obvious that it was a pregame setup. In a game when our season is on the line at round 10 after 2 pathetic seasons give me Libba/Macrae/Bont anytime. Bevo is absolutely playing with fire atm, he seems to finally have gotten the wheel turning again but if we fall away in the second half of the year I'm not sure sure he is ever going to get it back without significant change.
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Re: It's been a tough season so far in 2019 but........
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kruder
It was bizarre when North were taking the game away from us in the second quarter that we continued to put both Lippa and Smith in the same centre bounce. The bonus about 666 is that you can stop/gain momentum by getting a clearance and scoring and at the same time another clearance to the opposition can turn it into a landslide. it was obvious that it was a pregame setup. In a game when our season is on the line at round 10 after 2 pathetic seasons give me Libba/Macrae/Bont anytime. Bevo is absolutely playing with fire atm, he seems to finally have gotten the wheel turning again but if we fall away in the second half of the year I'm not sure sure he is ever going to get it back without significant change.
It's interesting that towards the final month or two of last year the senior players told the match committee to stop taking the piss and play to our strengths, perhaps this needs to happen again surrounding midfield personnel. If it is happening already and the players are being ignored, that could create a fairly toxic outcome.
The hubris that must go into this type of planning is what I struggle with, and indicates to me we've probably created an echo chamber within the coaching group that doesn't critically assess some of the ideas that are tabled to extent they should be. It's abundantly clear to me we need freshening up.
Good OP.
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Re: It's been a tough season so far in 2019 but........
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jeemak
It's interesting that towards the final month or two of last year the senior players told the match committee to stop taking the piss and play to our strengths, perhaps this needs to happen again surrounding midfield personnel. If it is happening already and the players are being ignored, that could create a fairly toxic outcome.
The hubris that must go into this type of planning is what I struggle with, and indicates to me we've probably created an echo chamber within the coaching group that doesn't critically assess some of the ideas that are tabled to extent they should be. It's abundantly clear to me we need freshening up.
Good OP.
Yep, we need someone who will challenge the conventional wisdom. There are ideas that sound great but there is a very good reason that clubs don't go with them and that's because there is a hidden problem that nobody has noticed (usually due to a lack of experience). In isolation new ideas are great but when you risk the perception (or the reality) that you are drinking your own bathwater then it's probably a good idea to have someone a bit more experienced to bounce those ideas off.
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Re: It's been a tough season so far in 2019 but........
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jeemak
It's interesting that towards the final month or two of last year the senior players told the match committee to stop taking the piss and play to our strengths, perhaps this needs to happen again surrounding midfield personnel. If it is happening already and the players are being ignored, that could create a fairly toxic outcome.
The hubris that must go into this type of planning is what I struggle with, and indicates to me we've probably created an echo chamber within the coaching group that doesn't critically assess some of the ideas that are tabled to extent they should be. It's abundantly clear to me we need freshening up.
Good OP.
The body language of Macrae, libba and Mclean suggests this..
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Re: It's been a tough season so far in 2019 but........
We’ve lost to GC, Carlton and North.
I mean, I too look at the positives and want to have a glass half full view, but seriously, it’s a joke. Pretty sure that those 3 were the bottom 3 at the beginning of this round.
The problem is, you kind of have to look for someone or something to blame when playing like this. This isn’t inconsistency. Against good teams we always compete. This is something else. Cause against poor teams, we seem to regularly lose. So you can’t blame youth or fitness or anything. It’s a leadership issue. On, off the field? Both? I wish it was a joke but you can bank on us being in with a shot next week and then getting rolled the week after the bye.
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Re: It's been a tough season so far in 2019 but........
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MrMahatma
We’ve lost to GC, Carlton and North.
I mean, I too look at the positives and want to have a glass half full view, but seriously, it’s a joke. Pretty sure that those 3 were the bottom 3 at the beginning of this round.
The problem is, you kind of have to look for someone or something to blame when playing like this. This isn’t inconsistency. Against good teams we always compete. This is something else. Cause against poor teams, we seem to regularly lose. So you can’t blame youth or fitness or anything. It’s a leadership issue. On, off the field? Both? I wish it was a joke but you can bank on us being in with a shot next week and then getting rolled the week after the bye.
Hard year to call. For all our wins bar Richmond the game was on the line at a crucial part and we were the team that lifted more - swans got within 4 points in 4th, 9 goal last qtr against hawks, snatched the lead w a momentum swinging goal on half time siren against lions.
Having said this for all games we’ve lost bar Carlton, we were in prime position to run away with it but the other team lifted - within a kick or infront at a point in the last quarter.
Forever, I thought the answer would be an experienced coaching panel around Bevo, but my assumption is he is too stubborn to listen. The radical position switch with players works with some - Boyd snr, Caleb Daniel, Naughton (so far) - but it’s rarer they work than they don’t. Why we don’t pivot to proven positions and structures when the game is on the line I don’t know. Having said that - it seems to work half the time so far....
Hard year to call.
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Re: It's been a tough season so far in 2019 but........
I know that no-one agrees with me but I don't think it has been a tough season at all.
It has just been a season where we have dropped 3x easy + winnable games to bottom teams because the strength of our team - our mids - simply doesn't defend.
Add the games vs Carlton, North and GC to the 'win' list and we would all be happy. Losing a tough one to the pies is something we could all accept (effort was good, could have won) equally losing to a pretty good Freo team in Perth is something we could all live with.
We don't take care of business...I thought the writing was on the wall for the North game given the mode of communication I heard during the week last week - it was all about sunshine and rainbows and selection seemed based on things other than hard work/commitment...basically to me we said at selection last week that talent was valued more highly than work rate and because we were bringing in these talented players everything would be ok.
I like the position we are in as a club with our list with the exception of our rucks...and in that case it is a matter of just waiting a while for English to develop. But until we start valuing work-rate and intent over 'talent' we are not going anywhere...key planks of our premiership were Matt Boyd, Dale Morris, JJ, Biggs, Picken (and I am missing someone) who worked their way up from the rookie list...some under enormous duress. I guess this was balanced by the blue bloods of Stringer and Boyd (high draft picks) but that team was truly born in 'BLOOD AND BOOTS'.
We mock the Giants and the fact that they are not a club, but when they have the likes of De Boer, Mumford and Reid running around they have a real 'grunt' about them....De Boer is shutting down anyone and everyone and seemingly would do anything to be part of the side...where is OUR De Boer who sets standards with work-rate and effort? Our playing group is filled by players who sulk when they are moved out of the midfield - yep, I'm looking at you Jack Macrae (but not only you) - and it simply isn't good enough. Our guys are great when they are up against someone who they seemingly consider 'worthy' of the challenge...but they just aren't honest players who come to 'work' every game. Sure, they will run around and get their 35+ and are good players...but if they don't have it on their own terms, where is the fight?
Is this coaching? Sure, whatever. But the drive to win and succeed no matter what comes from within. The players need to think about what they want their legacy to be (which sounds dumb I know) but if you want to ask me - a really long term member of the club - how I remember this 'group' I will say that Dalrymple assembled an incredibly gifted bunch of players, but unfortunately once they tasted success they were never able to consistently commit to the cause of winning - and instead focussed on stats and their own personal performances.
Most people know I am a pretty dedicated basketball fan and fortunate follower of the Warriors. To see the way Curry has played over the past two weeks (since Durrant went out) has been remarkable - he is basically saying to everyone "I could have been doing this all along, but because we had this other dude I modified MY game (sacrificed) so that we had the best chance of winning...now he is injured, I have to take more responsibility in terms of outcomes...."
Our players seem to take the opposite approach. We need more grunt. We need more guys for whom winning games actually means more than what it says on the stats sheet next to their name when the siren goes.
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Re: It's been a tough season so far in 2019 but........
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mjp
I know that no-one agrees with me but I don't think it has been a tough season at all.
It has just been a season where we have dropped 3x easy + winnable games to bottom teams because the strength of our team - our mids - simply doesn't defend.
Add the games vs Carlton, North and GC to the 'win' list and we would all be happy. Losing a tough one to the pies is something we could all accept (effort was good, could have won) equally losing to a pretty good Freo team in Perth is something we could all live with.
Our players seem to take the opposite approach. We need more grunt. We need more guys for whom winning games actually means more than what it says on the stats sheet next to their name when the siren goes.
Really thoughtful, cut-to-the-core post. Are the players holding up Bevo too much and not taking enough responsibility themselves?
As low as they are, was interesting to see Carlton kick the coaches out and have their own review.
It's turnovers, goal kicking and lack of defensive pressure from our mids. Being sloppy is costing us an otherwise fantastic season.
Lyon used to have that rule at the saints, that a tackle inside 50 was as good as a goal. On the coaching side, there is definitely some knack to reframing what success means. If we throw away season after season, it will def take the shine off 2016.
"Matt Boyd, Dale Morris, JJ, Biggs, Picken (and I am missing someone)" < -- Tory Dickson. The bricklayer who could.
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Re: It's been a tough season so far in 2019 but........
Excellent points mjp.
If there one tiny worrying tidbit I've heard this year it's that Jack Macrae counts his possessions on the ground. He's someone I've admired as often he's happy to hold the ball for an extra half second to take the hit from the opposition player prior to releasing the ball which puts his teammate in a slightly better position, but it's not always happening this year. Notably, he was part of a midfield group that against Carlton and Gold Coast refused to play at least one starting mid on the defensive side of the centre contest, unforgivable given we basically conceded the ruck contest during those games.
McLean & Wally are sacrificing their natural game for the team. I don't actually think McLean is too down on form, just being played in a very difficult position to play in our system which makes Lloyd's form all the more remarkable.
I also don't buy the 'talent' argument given the obvious list imbalance in our side. Consider the guys who started as our forward six last week (I watched closely, and Bont started in the centre):
Libba, Lloyd, Suckling, Wallis, Naughton, Richards
Naughton was a FB and even spent all pre-season there before being thrown forward. Richards was drafted as a defender, Suckling a defender as well.
Libba & Wallis? Inside mids.
Then (I noted this and someone in front of me remarked he was thinking the same thing) Suckling rotates after 4.5 minutes against North even though he was in the forward pocket the whole time and had barely run. Are our pre-planned rotations helping or hindering us?
The only legitimate developed forward playing on Saturday was Lloyd who spent most of last year in another team's VFL side. Now Wallis has been surprisingly effective forward in patches last year and Naughton is a freak, but that points to huge list management issues.
I really don't like having only one marking forward either - Naughton is brilliant but he's still a budding 19 year old KPF playing with no tall support right now. Gowers at least blocks and split the defenders, who was going to do it last week? Drop Gowers, fine, but just picking blokes to play without any thought to having a functioning forwardline is either arrogance or ridiculous optimism.
I'm really concerned that as at JLT 2 we threw all of our plans out the window. Trengove spends all pre-season playing ruck, Naughton defence, Williams as a mid, Wallis who excelled forward last year and had the worst centre clearance differential in 2018 in the competition (-10) plays mid, Dunkley who excelled last year as a mid plays mostly forward.... Bevo is cobblign together a team due to said list imbalances and for all the moves that work, it seems to have been done by desperation rather than clever grand planning.
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Re: It's been a tough season so far in 2019 but........
People can talk about versatility, playing out of position, talent etc, but what I gather out of MJP's post, is EFFORT, or lack of by some players.
Players have to stop sooking and play where they are asked to play.
The only real effort on the weekend was the first quarter, which in my opinion we won, even though the scores were tied, and the first 10 minutes of the last.
We lost on Saturday, because our mids didn't give us enough inside 50's to kick a winning score.
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Re: It's been a tough season so far in 2019 but........
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bornadog
We lost on Saturday, because our mids didn't give us enough inside 50's to kick a winning score.
See - I reckon we lost because we allowed too much possession/too many inside 50's to North. I understand what you are saying and people will say that it is semantics - "What does it matter how many they get as long as we get more...", but to me that is a BS attitude.
It only takes one person to score a goal. It only takes one to create an inside 50m. Naughton takes a ridiculous mark, JJ runs and has 4x bounces...done. A high i50 count can be the result of a number of positive one-player/two-player efforts.
It takes an entire TEAM to stop a goal. It takes an entire TEAM to stop an opposition i50. In transition, if just ONE PLAYER makes a mistake, is a bit slow, is a bit 'soft' (broken tackle)...GOAL. Everyone needs to consistently and continuously play their part in order to stop the opposition.
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Re: It's been a tough season so far in 2019 but........
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mjp
See - I reckon we lost because we allowed too much possession/too many inside 50's to North. I understand what you are saying and people will say that it is semantics - "What does it matter how many they get as long as we get more...", but to me that is a BS attitude.
It only takes one person to score a goal. It only takes one to create an inside 50m. Naughton takes a ridiculous mark, JJ runs and has 4x bounces...done. A high i50 count can be the result of a number of positive one-player/two-player efforts.
It takes an entire TEAM to stop a goal. It takes an entire TEAM to stop an opposition i50. In transition, if just ONE PLAYER makes a mistake, is a bit slow, is a bit 'soft' (broken tackle)...GOAL. Everyone needs to consistently and continuously play their part in order to stop the opposition.
I can't argue against that.
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Re: It's been a tough season so far in 2019 but........
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mjp
It takes an entire TEAM to stop a goal. It takes an entire TEAM to stop an opposition i50. In transition, if just ONE PLAYER makes a mistake, is a bit slow, is a bit 'soft' (broken tackle)...GOAL. Everyone needs to consistently and continuously play their part in order to stop the opposition.
Quoted because it's the truth.
Our 2-way running is dreadful.. to a man our players go half rat power when transitioning from offence into defence. And when you have a backline that isn't all that good at one-on-one defending you're in big trouble.
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Re: It's been a tough season so far in 2019 but........
It certainly hasn't been our ability to score that's let us down these last two weeks. If our defense is up to scratch we win with 90 points or so.
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Re: It's been a tough season so far in 2019 but........
I don’t want to see more grunt or toughness.
I want to see more skill. I want to see the player with the ball take responsibility for doing something with it.
Too much of the possessions count does nothing to help win the game.
who gets the ball, sprints 10 metres and kicks a low 45 metre pass. Nobody except Bont (and Smith)
At present everyone simply looks for a handpass. Most weeks we have 20, 30 or 40 more than the opposition and lose because of resulting turnovers.
Combine quality kicking with a sensible goal to goal line and we would enjoy significantly more wins.
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Re: It's been a tough season so far in 2019 but........
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hujsh
It certainly hasn't been our ability to score that's let us down these last two weeks. If our defense is up to scratch we win with 90 points or so.
Similar number of scoring shots but the opposition usually get a goal.
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Re: It's been a tough season so far in 2019 but........
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hujsh
It certainly hasn't been our ability to score that's let us down these last two weeks. If our defense is up to scratch we win with 90 points or so.
Not the last two weeks, no.
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Re: It's been a tough season so far in 2019 but........
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hujsh
It certainly hasn't been our ability to score that's let us down these last two weeks. If our defense is up to scratch we win with 90 points or so.
Is it our defence that is the issue or our lack of accountability further up the ground? Sure our defence would be part of the problem but turnovers, skill errors and hardness at the ball are all significant contributors.
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Re: It's been a tough season so far in 2019 but........
The issue is at a coaching level if you ask me. You can't play players out of position long term or even quarter to quarter. Macrae / Libba forward has never worked. You can't bring in new players who have been playing completely different roles in the VFL and expect them to perform other roles in the senior team they're not accustomed to. There are just too many weird decisions being made at the MC / Snr coach level for loses to be remotely palatable. We need an assistant coach clean out and Bevo needs a bad cop. I'd go hard at luring Buddha over from the Pies. Their stoppage work is exemplary and I'd also assign a specific ball movement portfolio to an assistant coach as well. The way we transition is just terrible 80% of the time.
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Re: It's been a tough season so far in 2019 but........
Quote:
Originally Posted by
whythelongface
Is it our defence that is the issue or our lack of accountability further up the ground? Sure our defence would be part of the problem but turnovers, skill errors and hardness at the ball are all significant contributors.
Team defense. Not putting the Men's Club on blast. I was responding pretty close to the point MJP made about it being a team effort to stop a goal.
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Re: It's been a tough season so far in 2019 but........
Quote:
Originally Posted by
whythelongface
Is it our defence that is the issue or our lack of accountability further up the ground? Sure our defence would be part of the problem but turnovers, skill errors and hardness at the ball are all significant contributors.
The defence certainly would be under the spotlight the last 2 weeks considering 21 and 18 goals over 100 points. We have slightly improved the goalkicking with 13.11 and 13.12 but still not good enough to get the win the last 2 weeks anyway. Those other things mentioned are all factors to our current situation.
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Re: It's been a tough season so far in 2019 but........
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eastdog
The defence certainly would be under the spotlight the last 2 weeks considering 21 and 18 goals over 100 points. We have slightly improved the goalkicking with 13.11 and 13.12 but still not good enough to get the win the last 2 weeks anyway. Those other things mentioned are all factors to our current situation.
Defense is under pressure because we are not defending the ball well up the ground. The ball comes out of our forward line far too easily.
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Re: It's been a tough season so far in 2019 but........
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bornadog
Defense is under pressure because we are not defending the ball well up the ground. The ball comes out of our forward line far too easily.
Yeah teams seem to get easy goals from us and we have to work for ours every time.
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Re: It's been a tough season so far in 2019 but........
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hujsh
Team defense. Not putting the Men's Club on blast. I was responding pretty close to the point MJP made about it being a team effort to stop a goal.
Thought that was what you meant just wanted to clarify as I totally agree. We let the opposition run rampant up the ground and through the middle.
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Re: It's been a tough season so far in 2019 but........
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Danjul
I don’t want to see more grunt or toughness.
At present everyone simply looks for a handpass. Most weeks we have 20, 30 or 40 more than the opposition and lose because of resulting turnovers.
Combine quality kicking with a sensible goal to goal line and we would enjoy significantly more wins.
That wasn't the case vs North. We had more kicks and LESS handballs.
I am not talking about toughness being the difference. It is about defensive concentration and not allowing turnovers to become goals...on the weekend we had LESS turnovers than North and were actually MORE efficient inside fwd 50 than they were...so what gives?
Fair enough, disposal efficiency...we were down by a couple of percent - but it really was line ball...
I am all for your comments about too much of our possession not actually helping us win - that was the main thrust of what I was posting last week - but I thought our kick/handball ratio was much improved vs North, but our efforts in transition, efforts to provide an effective outlet/shut down the outlet were poor...and the efforts of our forwards to quickly empty out and get goal side were not good enough.
I am curious what you mean by a sensible goal-to-goal line...who should play???
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Re: It's been a tough season so far in 2019 but........
I think the leadership is weak. There is no lead by example and has anyone ever seen Wood pull the group together after a bad quarter and rev the boys up.
Maybe I'm too old school and if a captain got up the players for a poor performance they would just tell him to hoof off.
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Re: It's been a tough season so far in 2019 but........
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mjp
That wasn't the case vs North. We had more kicks and LESS handballs.
I am not talking about toughness being the difference. It is about defensive concentration and not allowing turnovers to become goals...on the weekend we had LESS turnovers than North and were actually MORE efficient inside fwd 50 than they were...so what gives?
Fair enough, disposal efficiency...we were down by a couple of percent - but it really was line ball...
I am all for your comments about too much of our possession not actually helping us win - that was the main thrust of what I was posting last week - but I thought our kick/handball ratio was much improved vs North, but our efforts in transition, efforts to provide an effective outlet/shut down the outlet were poor...and the efforts of our forwards to quickly empty out and get goal side were not good enough.
I am curious what you mean by a sensible goal-to-goal line...who should play???
we had the same number of scoring shots but got 12 behinds to 7 (similar against Geelong). One thing I noticed that seemed to impact on goal kicking accuracy was the transition into the forward line. Slow movement around the wing with handball or short kicks allowing defenders to flood back. A successful kick into the 50 metre arc often results in a shot at goal from difficult angle or on the kicker’s distance limit (short forwards leading out ).
I would like to see faster and straighter kicks into the F50, from closer to the centre square. The Bont does this well.
I would like to see a genuine tall at CHF who can kick long goals. I think Schache is our best option now. Then Naughton at FF might not get two tall defenders so often. Also, the smaller forwards can focus on gathering spills and using speed to run into better positions.
on the backline we should have Suckling kicking in with a choice of spaced targets, the ruckman and 2 genuine talls who are good overhead. Lewis Young was like that. Trengove can take a mark. . I suspect we waste Daniel at present. He could set up some smart play further up the ground.
At present our exits are slow , often leading to a contest too close to opponents goal. This invariably involves the opposition ruckmen.
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Re: It's been a tough season so far in 2019 but........
Quote:
Quote Originally Posted by mjp
It takes an entire TEAM to stop a goal. It takes an entire TEAM to stop an opposition i50. In transition, if just ONE PLAYER makes a mistake, is a bit slow, is a bit 'soft' (broken tackle)...GOAL. Everyone needs to consistently and continuously play their part in order to stop the opposition.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mantis
Quoted because it's the truth.]Our 2-way running is dreadful.. to a man our players go half rat power when transitioning from offence into defence. And when you have a backline that isn't all that good at one-on-one defending you're in big trouble.
So true. Most teams play to their strengths but we seem to play to our weaknesses.
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Re: It's been a tough season so far in 2019 but........
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Danjul
we had the same number of scoring shots but got 12 behinds to 7 (similar against Geelong). One thing I noticed that seemed to impact on goal kicking accuracy was the transition into the forward line.
I neither agree nor disagree with any of this...I just don't think our ball-movement was the problem on the weekend. We had enough of the ball - we just allowed too much of it to North. Fair enough vs Geelong we over-used but we didn't really do that against North.
I guess the question I would ask is WHY you think we were slowed down on the wing. Is it our structure (it sounds like you think yes) or the oppositions willingness to push back hard and defend in numbers (I think it is this). When I watch - and I am in Perth remember so beholden to the broadcast angle - going quicker would result in MORE turnovers rather than less because we are so often outnumbered behind the ball...
I understand what you are saying about structuring around Schache and Naughton...I just can't see Schache at CHF making a lick of difference. We will kick it to him - he wont mark it - the opposition will take it away. I guess I am just nervous about the idea of Josh playing high as any sort of marking target because he WILL be under high entry kicks (that's the life of a CHF) and I haven't seen him mark those balls going back to his time in the u18's.
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Re: It's been a tough season so far in 2019 but........
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mjp
or the oppositions willingness to push back hard and defend in numbers (I think it is this). .
I thought North were very good at defending and stopping our run. Their pressure on the ball carriers was excellent, forcing us to kick short and try to hold on to the ball. We stuffed up a few times by trying to kick across the ground to try and go wide of their press, only to turn it over due to errant kicking.
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Re: It's been a tough season so far in 2019 but........
We are in the midst of record low scores in the comp, so conceding 21 and 18 goals in the last 2 weeks is akin to 25+ goals. That is a massive failure of team defence, as others have already alluded to on this thread. We have so many elite ball winners who cannot/will not take responsibility for harder working opposition mids. We are not dissimilar to Melbourne in that respect, who have so many inside grunt mids who get absolutely torched on the outside and have no work ethic to run defensively - it's not a flattering comparison.
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Re: It's been a tough season so far in 2019 but........
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mjp
I neither agree nor disagree with any of this...I just don't think our ball-movement was the problem on the weekend. We had enough of the ball - we just allowed too much of it to North. Fair enough vs Geelong we over-used but we didn't really do that against North.
I guess the question I would ask is WHY you think we were slowed down on the wing. Is it our structure (it sounds like you think yes) or the oppositions willingness to push back hard and defend in numbers (I think it is this). When I watch - and I am in Perth remember so beholden to the broadcast angle - going quicker would result in MORE turnovers rather than less because we are so often outnumbered behind the ball...
I understand what you are saying about structuring around Schache and Naughton...I just can't see Schache at CHF making a lick of difference. We will kick it to him - he wont mark it - the opposition will take it away. I guess I am just nervous about the idea of Josh playing high as any sort of marking target because he WILL be under high entry kicks (that's the life of a CHF) and I haven't seen him mark those balls going back to his time in the u18's.
Agree about Schache not playing centre half forward. That position is better for Naughton and gives him more room to move with Schache at full forward.
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Re: It's been a tough season so far in 2019 but........
Turnovers are killing us. they kicked 8 goals from turnovers on the weekend. Daniel has had a great year but boy has he had some turnovers trying to be to cute. I have never seen so many bullet passes tried over the past few weeks and very few come off. Get back to the basics.
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Re: It's been a tough season so far in 2019 but........
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bullies
Turnovers are killing us. they kicked 8 goals from turnovers on the weekend. Daniel has had a great year but boy has he had some turnovers trying to be to cute. I have never seen so many bullet passes tried over the past few weeks and very few come off. Get back to the basics.
I hate the kicking across the ground, as they don't seem to come off.