Tough road trip …
The Dogs will leave Sunday for Perth and effectively be locked down for 7 days. They can train and then play Fremantle.
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Tough road trip …
The Dogs will leave Sunday for Perth and effectively be locked down for 7 days. They can train and then play Fremantle.
Yeah it's kinda borderline for me. We did WCE early, had a poor showing at stages against Richmond and obviously played poorly tonight. But it's only been two weeks since we really stood up in a belter of a game away against Port so I think we're learning how to play in them.
But he is less consistent than Jacko is, so I'm not sure why you'd change it to take out your most consistent player rather than make more obvious changes elsewhere.
As for doing something different with our set up, it's a tough one. I'd be more inclined to give another week or two to get back on track because we play how we play, one soldier in and one soldier out.
Because we did it all night I had to assume it was our game plan.
It was also noticeable that they conceded Cordy as our option for the first kick after a behind, knowing that he might stuff it up. They must have been thrilled that Dale, Williams and Daniel (sounds like a law firm) used it so poorly by foot as well, under no great pressure early on.
So Bevo (from the presser) didn't have a problem with our intent to generate width, but it was after that where the problems set in. He said it was after that a blend of decision making and skill execution combined that led to the malaise.
And you're one hundred per cent right, Melbourne would have been thrilled with the poor execution by foot by the legal eagles you mentioned.
I'm not sure either to be honest.. But if I had to make a judgment call as to who of the two breaks a game like tonight open, Smith wins for me.
Macrae's trench work is awesome, and maybe he can translate that more, in a game like tonight, to just totally kill Oliver's influence, and force Melbourne to adjust things that then allows Libba to get free inside, and open up our outside game.
But on the flipside, given Smith was woeful tonight, maybe that's the catalyst for the coach to realise it's not on for him tonight, and to reset his role to smash Oliver...and see what Goodwin does about that..
The reason why I'd go with Smith is because he can be tough in the contest, but he also has the burst speed to break away which is what you need to do when trying to curtail a mid and hurt them on the other sides of the game (which is what I mentioned in MJP's top of the table thread). Stop them, burst off them. Jacko can't do that.
Dissapointing game and result, but I'm not too down.
They beat us comfortably, but I'm not sure we saw anything which isn't fixable. They played super well, but didn't go to a level I think we can't and despite the difference in performance we were right in it for much of the game.
Our execution and composure was the worst its been since that Richmond half, and from guys you would not expect that of like Williams and Daniel. It was hardly a soul destroying loss, and the occasional defeat against quality opposition is good for learning and team growth. I don't come away from this result thinking we couldn't beat them in 6 weeks time or the finals.
I'm not going to downplay this loss. Yeah we have a long injury list, yeah there was no crowds but we lost the same way we did against Richmond and lost the same way we have in the past finals. When the heat is really turned up we struggle, that is not going to win us finals footy. Can you honestly see this team beating a Richmond in September or Geelong? No way. We're still a fair way off IMO and last night showed that.
Interesting, I feel the opposite.
Dunkley and Treloar returning won’t help our complete inability to navigate through Demons defence across the ground which was our biggest issue. The reason we turned the ball over switching across the ground and chewing off too much was most likely due to the set up further up ground, so while it looked bad on TV it was only because Melbourne completely strangled us. Happened against Richmond to, but not the extent of last night, so now we’ve seen it twice without any ability to overcome it.
Hard to see us beating the best sides. Disappointing to realise we’re probably not a real premiership contender but better to know now.
I agree with your main points about it being due to Melbourne's set-up, but at the same time I think we can overcome that. Even with them applying great pressure, a great structure and playing really well we were right in that game and despite never really playing our style of football had chances. I'm concerned about how midfield can be so damaging against us when they are on top but I think we are good enough to overcome that.
Their pressure was great, and they certainly are the major factor in why our composure and execution was bad, but I can't help thinking we can only improve and that with another go at it we will perform better.
As for the last comment, I know what you mean but its never that basic. We are still in the box seat for top 2, have only looked out of our depth twice all year, are a good chance to only meet one of those sides in the finals anyway, and I am very confident that we are capable of beating those sides anyway. Whether we do or not remains to be seen, but we certainly are good enough when playing well, we just have to figure out how to do that when these teams are on as well.
I do feel very similar. It’s the way we lost, I don’t think it was as much a personnel issue as it was a systematic issue with the way we play. GWS final, Saints final, Tigers game, last night all had a familiar script. These are probably our 4 biggest games since the flag.
Pressure the midfield by removing time and space for the phone box handball, stop the overlap off halfback forcing us sideways, basically stymie our quick ball movement which allows their set defence to become impenetrable. Then turnover, exposed defence, the rest is history. Port play more like us, they don’t do this I think that’s why we go ok against them.
I get it, it’s the way we lose and other teams know it. So it looks the same every time, but my real concern is considering we haven’t looked like winning a final since 2016, I mean not even close (the Saints game was over early I believe), what are we doing differently to stop this happening?
I shouldn’t be surprised but I’m really coming around to MJP’s sentiment in another thread about the midfield. It looks amazing under middling pressure but just rolling out the same playbook and expecting something different under finals like defensive pressure isn’t going to cut it. We need to innovate. We went head to head to start which was warranted, but once they’d revealed their hand and it was working in that first quarter when it was won, what did we do? Do we have counter plans for the midfield to make them more accountable?
I know we got it back to even after that playing our way but gate, horse, bolted. Maybe I missed what we changed it’s hard on TV but it looked like workrate as much as system and maybe the opposition not being able to maintain the rage.
Last night the Demons used two of their 2018 big name mids in Harmes and Brayshaw in defensive roles, one took Libba out of the game and the other sat off and defended the wing (Brayshaw). He hardly touched it but if you look at his heat map he basically just moved along the wing in behind the ball the entire game. That’s the selflessness many have mentioned and I’m warming to us needing more of.
Sure when we get Dunkley and Treloar back we will have more options, more levers to pull I just question if the levers exist sometimes :cool:
I’m happy overall we have such a talented list, and we do look improved I just hope we are learning from these losses as from the outside it’s hard to see it sometimes and a finals win is absolute minimum best expectation now.
But to beat a real finals pressure side we need to do something differently or we just won’t contend.