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Why are the Demons still so piss weak in 2018?
The Demons.
So many early draft picks.
They had the best AFL coach ever to train them up in Paul Roos.
And then more early draft picks.
And then they had the next best coach in the AFL Simon Goodwin to take them to the finals in 2017 but didn't.
And now they are piss weak yet again in 2018.
Why?
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Re: Why are the Demons still so piss weak in 2018?
Culture , not sure if you heard the interview with Petracca after the loss and he mentioned something like its the Melbourne way.
Big alarm bells went off when he said that.
Media all over it and they are right if that's what your thinking you aren't going anywhere.
Goodwin even admitted he is trying to change the thought process and culture.
Seems it's a losing battle.
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Re: Why are the Demons still so piss weak in 2018?
Just look at the fiasco re the pre-season camp. Some players jacked up, went to the AFLPA and coach - camp cancelled, club $30K out of pocket!
What an attitude! What a back down! They weren't being asked to inject unknown substances - it was a survival camp designed to develop mental toughness and they didn't even make it to the start line.
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Re: Why are the Demons still so piss weak in 2018?
And now their boom recruit Mr Lever is in the gun for being soft.
I'm pretty happy with Naughton right now
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Re: Why are the Demons still so piss weak in 2018?
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Originally Posted by
Dry Rot
They had the most overrated AFL coach ever to train them up in Paul Roos.
Edited for accuracy
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Re: Why are the Demons still so piss weak in 2018?
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Originally Posted by
merantau
Just look at the fiasco re the pre-season camp. Some players jacked up, went to the AFLPA and coach - camp cancelled, club $30K out of pocket!
What an attitude! What a back down! They weren't being asked to inject unknown substances - it was a survival camp designed to develop mental toughness and they didn't even make it to the start line.
Yeah that's only part of the story. Whilst the players didn't air their concerns at the appropriate time or via appropriate channels, this same camp that they went on the year prior saw two players injured performing tasks not associated with football. Essentially the club believes itself to be allowed to put footballers through tasks that are high risk if they feel it be of benefit to the club, but if a player injures himself in a rest, relaxation or recreational activity all hell breaks loose, irrespective of the benefits of those activities.
AFL footballers aren't the same as they used to be, they're not the same as rugby players either (it was rugby players Melbourne Storm put through camps that gave MFC the idea to do the same with footballers). Clubs need to be really careful in how they manage them.
All of this points to a club that isn't in tune with how to develop and get the best out of its players. That's their main issue, all the good draft picks in the world won't do much if you can't development their fruits.
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Re: Why are the Demons still so piss weak in 2018?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jeemak
Yeah that's only part of the story. Whilst the players didn't air their concerns at the appropriate time or via appropriate channels, this same camp that they went on the year prior saw two players injured performing tasks not associated with football. Essentially the club believes itself to be allowed to put footballers through tasks that are high risk if they feel it be of benefit to the club, but if a player injures himself in a rest, relaxation or recreational activity all hell breaks loose, irrespective of the benefits of those activities.
AFL footballers aren't the same as they used to be, they're not the same as rugby players either (it was rugby players Melbourne Storm put through camps that gave MFC the idea to do the same with footballers). Clubs need to be really careful in how they manage them.
All of this points to a club that isn't in tune with how to develop and get the best out of its players. That's their main issue, all the good draft picks in the world won't do much if you can't development their fruits.
Yep.
Just why are the AFL so obsessed with making Melbourne a power club anyway? They paid for Roos, they put Jackson in place on their coin, they were manipulating mini drafts for them and of the nine clubs in Victoria Jake Lever picks Melbourne over all of them? Really a bloke who plays AFL thinks Melbourne are a chance to have some success in his playing career? Righto then I can believe that, I flat out refuse to believe the AFL had a hand in his decision.
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Re: Why are the Demons still so piss weak in 2018?
Because they're an entitled bunch of punks who honestly believe that they will just win games and premierships by virtue of all being in the same place at the same time.
Their effort was laughable on the weekend. At one point O'Meara ran past no less than 5 players on his way to kicking what was eventually an easy goal from the back of the square.
Lever is copping it at the moment, and rightly so, but their entire defence lacks discipline and seems incompetent when the ball hits the ground. Their best defender from last year has had his role totally change to cover for the fact that no one else is interested in playing on anybody.
Also has Goodwin done anything to demonstrate that he's a good coach or that the players even like him?
Anyway it's all AWESOME.
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Re: Why are the Demons still so piss weak in 2018?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bulldogsthru&thru
And now their boom recruit Mr Lever is in the gun for being soft.
I'm pretty happy with Naughton right now
Adelaide gained Melbourne's 2017 and 2018 first rounder for him. And pick 12 for Charlie Cameron.
Thankfully they overpaid for Gibbs.
I'll take Naughton and Richards instead thanks.
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Re: Why are the Demons still so piss weak in 2018?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jeemak
That's their main issue, all the good draft picks in the world won't do much if you can't development their fruits.
Consider the 7 Premiership defenders from 2016, as we'd rotate 7 through six spots.
Wood: pick 43
Hamling: DFA
Roberts: PSD
Morris: Rookie
Boyd: Rookie
JJ: Rookie
Biggs: Rookie then traded for nothing.
If there was ever evidence that draft picks are overrated, this is it. The two highest draft picks on our list are playing VFL right now.
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Re: Why are the Demons still so piss weak in 2018?
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Originally Posted by
Mofra
Consider the 7 Premiership defenders from 2016, as we'd rotate 7 through six spots.
Wood: pick 43
Hamling: DFA
Roberts: PSD
Morris: Rookie
Boyd: Rookie
JJ: Rookie
Biggs: Rookie then traded for nothing.
If there was ever evidence that draft picks are overrated, this is it. The two highest draft picks on our list are playing VFL right now.
There's a heartening masterclass in "culture" - and some canny recruiting calls - if there ever was one.
CC that to the entitled chaps over at Demonland.
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Re: Why are the Demons still so piss weak in 2018?
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Originally Posted by
Rocket Science
There's a heartening masterclass in "culture" - and some canny recruiting calls - if there ever was one.
CC that to the entitled chaps over at Demonland.
We could but they would just giggle to themselves because they know better than us. That explains all their recent success compared to us. We might get a faux tough guy text in response...
Speaking of that, WTF does Bugg think he is, and what exactly has he acheived in AFL football that allowed him to carry on like that? I remember thinking when he got himself suspended a couple of weeks later "if I was MFC I'd be sending Bugg around to JJ's house to ask if he could polish his Norm Smith and premiership medallions for him"
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Re: Why are the Demons still so piss weak in 2018?
Just a filthy set up.
My hatred of Melbourne is well documented on this forum. My heart skips a beat every time they experience some misfortune. Interesting that when recently researching my "WOOF Number" I realised I joined around the time we smashed them by around 16 goals early in 2008. Maybe I just needed to express further how crap they were, are and will be.
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Re: Why are the Demons still so piss weak in 2018?
They have a lot of players well down on form, including Hibberd, Jones, Hunt along with badly missing Viney and Tom McDonald.
Unfortunately, they'll turn it around before we play them - they have too much talent not to do so.
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Re: Why are the Demons still so piss weak in 2018?
If ever you need an example of the cost of tanking to the culture of a club look no further than Melbourne. They embraced losing as a way of winning and they're still paying for it now. Carlton and Essendon as also good cases in point.
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Re: Why are the Demons still so piss weak in 2018?
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Originally Posted by
Greystache
If ever you need an example of the cost of tanking to the culture of a club look no further than Melbourne. They embraced losing as a way of winning and they're still paying for it now. Carlton and Essendon as also good cases in point.
Couldn't happen to a better bunch.
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Re: Why are the Demons still so piss weak in 2018?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Go_Dogs
They have a lot of players well down on form, including Hibberd, Jones, Hunt along with badly missing Viney and Tom McDonald.
Unfortunately, they'll turn it around before we play them - they have too much talent not to do so.
+ Lever. From AA squad to lucky to hold his spot.
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Re: Why are the Demons still so piss weak in 2018?
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Originally Posted by
Twodogs
We could but they would just giggle to themselves because they know better than us. That explains all their recent success compared to us. We might get a faux tough guy text in response...
Speaking of that, WTF does Bugg think he is, and what exactly has he acheived in AFL football that allowed him to carry on like that? I remember thinking when he got himself suspended a couple of weeks later "if I was MFC I'd be sending Bugg around to JJ's house to ask if he could polish his Norm Smith and premiership medallions for him"
Good lord that's too delicious to pass up.
http://i66.tinypic.com/2wnsroo.jpg
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Re: Why are the Demons still so piss weak in 2018?
Not a very well branded club. The bearded goateed Demon with the fork circa 1980 at least looked mildly menacing. The current one was probably done by one of the VCE art students at Hailebury College ( where just about every staff member is a fan ).
You know you are in trouble when your young players have a bit of a giggle about their own club culture on national TV.
Some baffling decisions - making two kids co-captains a few years back then delisting them was a master-stroke. Paul Roos stuffed the development of those guys by doing that.
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Re: Why are the Demons still so piss weak in 2018?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Greystache
If ever you need an example of the cost of tanking to the culture of a club look no further than Melbourne. They embraced losing as a way of winning and they're still paying for it now. Carlton and Essendon as also good cases in point.
Being a cynic I always thought that the number one pick was too big a prize to pass up just to put the short term pride of winning a few games toward the tail end of a season that was going nowhere anyway. I thought you might as well finish last as finish eighth.
Melbourne put that theory to the test and I couldn't have been more wrong. You fool around with that sort of thing at the peril of wrecking the culture of your club. Letting the players develop a "near enough is good enough" attitude has proved disastrous for the development of Watts, Scully, Toumpas and a few others.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rocket Science
That is gold.
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Re: Why are the Demons still so piss weak in 2018?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dry Rot
The Demons.
So many early draft picks.
They had the best AFL coach ever to train them up in Paul Roos.
And then more early draft picks.
And then they had the next best coach in the AFL Simon Goodwin to take them to the finals in 2017 but didn't.
And now they are piss weak yet again in 2018.
Why?
No heart, No balls, No brains
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Re: Why are the Demons still so piss weak in 2018?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Doctor
No heart, No balls, No brains
Yep. In a word they are soft.
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Re: Why are the Demons still so piss weak in 2018?
They seem like they expect to just instantly come good without putting in the hard yards. Like Clayton Oliver for instance; he's a fantastic talent and will be a gun but he's also kind lazy out there in that he's only going to run hard when the ball is near him.
The Demons know that the AFL are looking out for them so they can get away with not caring while the AFL would love to ship the Bulldogs off somewhere and so we can't afford to never put in the effort.
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Re: Why are the Demons still so piss weak in 2018?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ghost Dog
Not a very well branded club. The bearded goateed Demon with the fork circa 1980 at least looked mildly menacing. The current one was probably done by one of the VCE art students at Hailebury College ( where just about every staff member is a fan ).
You know you are in trouble when your young players have a bit of a giggle about their own club culture on national TV.
Some baffling decisions - making two kids co-captains a few years back then delisting them was a master-stroke. Paul Roos stuffed the development of those guys by doing that.
Pretty sure Mark Neeld can take the credit for that decision.
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Re: Why are the Demons still so piss weak in 2018?
So from what I've read some of the players were not only worried about the camp but they went to the Players' Association as a first port of call rather than just going to the coaches.
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Re: Why are the Demons still so piss weak in 2018?
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Originally Posted by
Axe Man
Pretty sure Mark Neeld can take the credit for that decision.
2012, stand corrected Axe man. Shocking decision.
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Re: Why are the Demons still so piss weak in 2018?
They still give us a hard time
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Re: Why are the Demons still so piss weak in 2018?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Axe Man
Pretty sure Mark Neeld can take the credit for that decision.
Forgot he even existed!
And now he's at Essedum as a player development coach? Lots of things now make sense.
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Re: Why are the Demons still so piss weak in 2018?
Perhaps our name can be added to this thread title.
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Re: Why are the Demons still so piss weak in 2018?
Just to make us all feel better. Carlton are now the least successful Victorian club this century. Since the start of the 2000 season, a year after the club had made the Grand Final and a year in which it was to make a preliminary final, Carlton has played 417 matches for just 157 wins (37.65%).
In the same period, Melbourne has played 415 games for 158 wins (38.07%).
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Re: Why are the Demons still so piss weak in 2018?
Might be ironic by mid-afternoon on Saturday.
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Re: Why are the Demons still so piss weak in 2018?
Maybe we should change the title to Why are the Western Bulldogs so.........
Dees are flying, they'll beat us by 60+ on Saturday
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Re: Why are the Demons still so piss weak in 2018?
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Originally Posted by
G-Mo77
Maybe we should change the title to Why are the Western Bulldogs so.........
Dees are flying, they'll beat us by 60+ on Saturday
They should and probably will. But it's 5 in a row with the media firmly parked up their backside all week. And for some reason this has a sniff of the old days when we'd pull one or two big performances out of nowhere. It was always when the opposition had been favour of the month. That seemed to provoke a reaction out of us
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Re: Why are the Demons still so piss weak in 2018?
They should be flying after about their third re-build , a coach and ceo appointed by the afl !
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Re: Why are the Demons still so piss weak in 2018?
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Originally Posted by
Remi Moses
They should be flying after about their third re-build , a coach and ceo appointed by the afl !
The AFL paid for them so it was only fair that they get to appoint them as well.
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Re: Why are the Demons still so piss weak in 2018?
Demons are now playing some good teams. And they are being shown to be piss weak.
Pies took them apart.
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Re: Why are the Demons still so piss weak in 2018?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dry Rot
Demons are now playing some good teams. And they are being shown to be piss weak.
Pies took them apart.
Yep totally shown up yesterday
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Re: Why are the Demons still so piss weak in 2018?
Melbourne have a really good attacking game, but the times where they have been knocked off this year, is when they've played against the most organised teams that don't give them the corridor. We all saw against us - the way they open up the ground taking the 45 degree kick into the middle of the ground - and their forwards just take off towards goal.
Richmond, Collingwood, Geelong - are all top sides obviously, and they apply great pressure on Melbourne's kicking game and good attention to detail around outlets. But Hawthorn were the others to thump Melbourne - and although Hawthorn aren't as high on talent as they used to be - if you see them live - they are still so well organised in how they set up the ground - and Melbourne couldn't get their game going against it.
The silver lining for Melbourne out of yesterday - is that they still have time to fix things and to find some different gears to their game when they can't always get their desired game going. I recall us getting dismantled by Geelong at Etihad in 2016 by 57 points and thinking we didn't measure up - but its a long season.
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Re: Why are the Demons still so piss weak in 2018?
Whilst losing the midfield battle didn't help Melbourne's cause at all their backline was really shown up as being under-sized without Lever (I think O-Mac was off for parts too) and a little slow (Lewis & Vince) by the Collingwood forwards.
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Re: Why are the Demons still so piss weak in 2018?
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Originally Posted by
Mantis
Whilst losing the midfield battle didn't help Melbourne's cause at all their backline was really shown up as being under-sized without Lever (I think O-Mac was off for parts too) and a little slow (Lewis & Vince) by the Collingwood forwards.
I'm not sure how Bernie Vince gets a game with the depth Melbourne have. Lever being out tests the depth - but they had Tyson, Bugg, Kennedy-Harris, Wagner, Frost, Weideman and Hunt amongst others play 2s on the weekend.
Thought Hunt should be playing when the Pies have Stephenson and Hoskin Elliott with elite pace in their forward line.