Re: Always Right Match Committee Round 12 v Geelong at Marvel on Friday Night
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Danjul
The stats were a reference to a good ruck performance. A lot of it happened a few metres in front of me.
57 hitouts combined with 28 disposals is good in most people’s opinion.
And they will always be,
and I am glad you see it that way too.
The stats reflect an outrageously good performance by a league leading monster ruck against a developing puppy.
English should have beaten his opponents convincingly on the weekend, because he's better than them, though at least he's in a relatively similar age bracket. He's playing great football, I hope it continues.
But, I don't even know why I'm responding......I don't even know what I'm responding to. Are you trying to say that if we gave Jordan Sweet games over the past two or three years he could beat Tim English in 2019?
It's weird. I don't get it.
Re: Always Right Match Committee Round 12 v Geelong at Marvel on Friday Night
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Grantysghost
I have a bad attitude.
Re: Always Right Match Committee Round 12 v Geelong at Marvel on Friday Night
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jeemak
I have a bad attitude.
I enjoy said attitude, and also Danjul's zingers.
So win win for me xD
Re: Always Right Match Committee Round 12 v Geelong at Marvel on Friday Night
I think we've been undervaluing ruck work for years, particularly given the mids we have to take advantage of it. There's a huge correlation between Sweet playing and us winning, and high winning margins too. I don't see what Khamis, Cordy or Schache bring as forwards exceeding what Sweet brings as a second ruck
Re: Always Right Match Committee Round 12 v Geelong at Marvel on Friday Night
Quote:
Originally Posted by
boydogs
I think we've been undervaluing ruck work for years, particularly given the mids we have to take advantage of it. There's a huge correlation between Sweet playing and us winning, and high winning margins too. I don't see what Khamis, Cordy or Schache bring as forwards exceeding what Sweet brings as a second ruck
Unfortunately, Sweet can only contribute at the stoppage and this represents a liability when he is playing second fiddle to English.
If he could develop to be any threat forward this would change.
With rotations we can't really afford to have a player limited to contributing for about 20-25% game time.
Re: Always Right Match Committee Round 12 v Geelong at Marvel on Friday Night
Quote:
Originally Posted by
boydogs
I think we've been undervaluing ruck work for years, particularly given the mids we have to take advantage of it. There's a huge correlation between Sweet playing and us winning, and high winning margins too. I don't see what Khamis, Cordy or Schache bring as forwards exceeding what Sweet brings as a second ruck
I am in favour of playing two rucks and trying to get Sweet to a stage where he does contribute as a forward. A bit like how Brisbane played McInerney in that role for a couple of years. I agree the bar is so low with what Cordy in particular contributes that id think Sweet could surely offer not much less forward and much more in the ruck.
Thats completely not how our MC operates though so it's kind of a moot point. He is 100% being dropped.
Re: Always Right Match Committee Round 12 v Geelong at Marvel on Friday Night
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jeemak
I have a bad attitude.
You must be doing something right though, in all my time posting of woof I don't believe that anyone has had the pleasure of GVGjr giving them a nickname!
Re: Always Right Match Committee Round 12 v Geelong at Marvel on Friday Night
Quote:
Originally Posted by
soupman
I am in favour of playing two rucks and trying to get Sweet to a stage where he does contribute as a forward. A bit like how Brisbane played McInerney in that role for a couple of years. I agree the bar is so low with what Cordy in particular contributes that id think Sweet could surely offer not much less forward and much more in the ruck.
Thats completely not how our MC operates though so it's kind of a moot point. He is 100% being dropped.
Brisbane are still doing that. Playing Darcy Fort.
Re: Always Right Match Committee Round 12 v Geelong at Marvel on Friday Night
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bulldog Joe
With rotations we can't really afford to have a player limited to contributing for about 20-25% game time.
Sounds good in theory, but in an 18-team competition, every side has passengers.
Cordy's 6-7 possessions as a forward, and relative incompetence as a ruck, is limited contribution for the duration of his TOG.
At least Sweet has a strength which, if executed, can help our much vaunted midfield do what they do.
Playing Cordy/Schache as a second ruck gives us nothing, and neither are likely to contribute much anywhere else on the ground if we're being honest.
Re: Always Right Match Committee Round 12 v Geelong at Marvel on Friday Night
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Bulldogs Bite
Sounds good in theory, but in an 18-team competition, every side has passengers.
True, although that means it becomes really important that those bottom 6 or so players can perform their role really well and are not liabilities elsewhere.
Sweets gametime in the ruck is adequate, his tapwork is good but he is giving us very little outside of the ruck contest. but realistically he is getting at most 40% gametime in the ruck (probably less, English has minimum 80% gametime every week and almost all of it would be in the ruck), and thus needs to spend another 40-60% of the game performing a role elsewhere. Thus far he has offered very little in the forward role (and while I don't think Cordy is great there either i do think he has shown he can neutralise contests and "play his role").
On top of that his ability to runout games has been poor, he was noticably fatigued for basically the entire second half against Gold Coast and was largely unsighted outside of ruck contests against West Coast. If you're gonna have a role player who doesn't offer as much as others then you atleast don't want to have to worry about them running the game out.
For comparism Cordy does seems to register underneath 75% gametime most weeks...so similiar, while Schache has been 82% in both relevant games he has played this year.
I too think there is a spot for Sweet with what he offers in the ruck, but I'm betting that seeing as we only need him there for 25-30% of the game then he is being assessed on what he offers in the other role he is given. I am hardly inspired by what Cordy offers there, and would be happy to see Sweet get a real shot at it, but completely expect the MC is dissatisfied with what Sweet has been putting up in that role.
If Sweet is going to be selected over other options it has to be based on what strengths he offers us, which is his ruckwork. Until we show that we are interested in giving him more than the leftovers in the ruck role then he is being assessed on his performance as a forward unfortunately for him.
Re: Always Right Match Committee Round 12 v Geelong at Marvel on Friday Night
Quote:
Originally Posted by
azabob
You must be doing something right though, in all my time posting of woof I don't believe that anyone has had the pleasure of GVGjr giving them a nickname!
And it was said with genuine love.
Re: Always Right Match Committee Round 12 v Geelong at Marvel on Friday Night
Quote:
Originally Posted by
azabob
Brisbane are still doing that. Playing Darcy Fort.
It's working OK for them as well. I don't think we need to do that too often though.
I'd prefer to find someone capable of giving English a chop out 5 to 7 mins per quarter.
I think Cordy struggles to be competitive enough week after week and Schache has the mobility and athleticism but perhaps not vigor to do the role. I'd prefer to leave Bruce forward as well.
Re: Always Right Match Committee Round 12 v Geelong at Marvel on Friday Night
Quote:
Originally Posted by
soupman
True, although that means it becomes really important that those bottom 6 or so players can perform their role really well and are not liabilities elsewhere.
Agree, but we're clutching at straws if we think Cordy and Schache aren't liabilities. Cordy isn't an attacking threat, he's a poor defender and he can't ruck. His only drawcard is an appetite to compete but at the elite level I want more than that.
I've supported Schache for a while, but let's cut our losses. He isn't making it - he's an emergency in case of injury at best.
Quote:
Sweets gametime in the ruck is adequate, his tapwork is good but he is giving us very little outside of the ruck contest. but realistically he is getting at most 40% gametime in the ruck (probably less, English has minimum 80% gametime every week and almost all of it would be in the ruck), and thus needs to spend another 40-60% of the game performing a role elsewhere. Thus far he has offered very little in the forward role (and while I don't think Cordy is great there either i do think he has shown he can neutralise contests and "play his role").
On top of that his ability to runout games has been poor, he was noticably fatigued for basically the entire second half against Gold Coast and was largely unsighted outside of ruck contests against West Coast. If you're gonna have a role player who doesn't offer as much as others then you atleast don't want to have to worry about them running the game out.
For comparism Cordy does seems to register underneath 75% gametime most weeks...so similiar, while Schache has been 82% in both relevant games he has played this year.
I too think there is a spot for Sweet with what he offers in the ruck, but I'm betting that seeing as we only need him there for 25-30% of the game then he is being assessed on what he offers in the other role he is given. I am hardly inspired by what Cordy offers there, and would be happy to see Sweet get a real shot at it, but completely expect the MC is dissatisfied with what Sweet has been putting up in that role.
If Sweet is going to be selected over other options it has to be based on what strengths he offers us, which is his ruckwork. Until we show that we are interested in giving him more than the leftovers in the ruck role then he is being assessed on his performance as a forward unfortunately for him.
I agree in terms of what we think the MC will do.
I can understand the reasoning, but for a contending team I think we should be invested into exploiting any possible strengths (i.e. a ruck advantage to serve our mids), rather than worrying about flexibility.
Cordy and Schache can play more positions, but I'd argue both shouldn't be on an AFL list post 2022 and at best we are hoping they can neutralise an opponent. Both of these players have been given ample opportunity and have delivered very little, so even if it doesn't work out, I'd prefer we invest time in Sweet and see if we can eek out a similar contest forward of centre but yield much better returns in the ruck.
Agree on Sweet's fitness, but Cordy was destroyed as the second ruck vs GC and that played a big part in why GC kept getting back in the game - particularly in that second/third quarter.
Re: Always Right Match Committee Round 12 v Geelong at Marvel on Friday Night
I'm ok with Sweet being played with English, at least in front of Zaine. He'll be far more valuable to us with games under his belt if English goes down than what Zaine will be if we lose another key position player. I mean, at least we'll have Schache, right?
Re: Always Right Match Committee Round 12 v Geelong at Marvel on Friday Night
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Bulldogs Bite
Agree on Sweet's fitness, but Cordy was destroyed as the second ruck vs GC and that played a big part in why GC kept getting back in the game - particularly in that second/third quarter.
Forgetting about list management, and players we don't have, what is your solution for tomorrow and the rest of the season for the 2nd ruck role? For me, it can't be Hannan, or Dunkley, or any other mid.
