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Always Right Match Committee Thread Round 13, Vs Carlton
Welcome to the Always Right Match Committee Thread. The Match Committee threads has been named after long time WOOF member Always Right who tragically passed away in March 2018.
If you were on the Western Bulldogs match committee what changes would you make after our Round 11 match against West Coast for our Round 13, 2019 match against Carlton at Marvel Stadium?
For those new to these threads, please give a brief explanation for your changes ... this would add a lot of value to the discussion.
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Re: Always Right Match Committee Thread Round 13, Vs Carlton
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Re: Always Right Match Committee Thread Round 13, Vs Carlton
The mob that smacked us around and kicked over 100 points, something we don't do...
I'm beyond caring at this point. The players by and large look disinterested no matter the ins or outs. It's shuffling deck chairs on the titanic. Something is happening to make talented athletes perform so poorly as a whole. Until we can address that as a club, and who might be behind it, the ins and outs are a moot point.
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Re: Always Right Match Committee Thread Round 13, Vs Carlton
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bulldogtragic
The mob that smacked us around and kicked over 100 points, something we don't do...
I'm beyond caring at this point. The players by and large look disinterested no matter the ins or outs. It's shuffling deck chairs on the titanic. Something is happening to make talented athletes perform so poorly as a whole. Until we can address that as a club, and who might be behind it, the ins and outs are a moot point.
And they’ll be due for their 2nd win
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Re: Always Right Match Committee Thread Round 13, Vs Carlton
Out
Gardner McLean Lipinski Dale Lachie Young
In
Schache Lewis Young, Sweet Jong West
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Re: Always Right Match Committee Thread Round 13, Vs Carlton
Kicking multiple points is demoralising. We didn't deserve to let ourselves be beaten by that much. We are not that bad.
Haven't really looked at the opposition for next week. But we need a bit of hardness and experence in the midfield. Love to see Jongy come in.
In: a new goal kicking coach
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Re: Always Right Match Committee Thread Round 13, Vs Carlton
Quote:
Originally Posted by
westbulldog
Out
Gardner McLean Lipinski Dale Lachie Young
In
Schache Lewis Young, Sweet Jong West
Schache was injured yesterday, but not sure the extent of it.
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Re: Always Right Match Committee Thread Round 13, Vs Carlton
I haven't watched the game so can't say who should be dropped but it matters very little at this point. I can't see the axe being swung too hard as we don't yoyo players in and out of the team and persevere.
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Re: Always Right Match Committee Thread Round 13, Vs Carlton
Has Macrae mentally checked out? He's a shadow of his former self.
At halftime I had JJ as an out to make a statement, however he clearly responded to a bake at halftime.
I'd put Gardner back, English forward, and put Trengove in the ruck. If Carlton get easy supply to Cripps they win, inside mid opponents can kill us (Cripps, Cunnington have done it and evn Gaff destroyed us for clearances yesterday).
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Re: Always Right Match Committee Thread Round 13, Vs Carlton
In the last three weeks the opposition teams have kicked 60 goals 20 against the Dogs. That’s 380 points.
We have had 3 disastrous losses.
In the last three weeks the opposition teams have had a total of 10 more scoring shots than the Dogs.
Focusing on the second statement holds the key to better success. Why do 10 kicks make so much difference?
Because The selectors have been doing the same thing for the last 40 games and it has not worked. I am sure they will keep doing it.
What should they be doing? Getting a new mindset would be a good start. Focus on what is actually generating the results for a change instead of blaming players. Some of the suggestions made here seem very positive to me.
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Re: Always Right Match Committee Thread Round 13, Vs Carlton
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Danjul
In the last three weeks the opposition teams have kicked 60 goals 20 against the Dogs. That’s 380 points.
We have had 3 disastrous losses.
In the last three weeks the opposition teams have had a total of 10 more scoring shots than the Dogs.
Focusing on the second statement holds the key to better success. Why do 10 kicks make so much difference?
Because The selectors have been doing the same thing for the last 40 games and it has not worked. I am sure they will keep doing it.
What should they be doing? Getting a new mindset would be a good start. Focus on what is actually generating the results for a change instead of blaming players. Some of the suggestions made here seem very positive to me.
MJP has been telling us that we have a problem defending, and that was highly evident yesterday, yet we have been banging on about inaccuracy in front of goal. Guess what, that is our problem - defence all over the ground.
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Re: Always Right Match Committee Thread Round 13, Vs Carlton
Essendon managed to sit on Cripps yesterday for his lowest possessions tally for the year.
Which probably means he'll be revved up for a blinder.
#notags
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Re: Always Right Match Committee Thread Round 13, Vs Carlton
Change all the fringe players in the world. Won't matter if our 'stars' get smashed by theirs.
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Re: Always Right Match Committee Thread Round 13, Vs Carlton
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rocket Science
Essendon managed to sit on Cripps yesterday for his lowest possessions tally for the year.
Which probably means he'll be revved up for a blinder.
#notags
That is the key to beating Carlton, he killed us last time. They don't have anyone else in the midfield.
Could Mclean play as a tagger?
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Re: Always Right Match Committee Thread Round 13, Vs Carlton
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Originally Posted by
bornadog
That is the key to beating Carlton, he killed us last time. They don't have anyone else in the midfield.
Could Mclean play as a tagger?
It sounds like the sort of thing Bevo would conjure to keep things interesting. At least it'd involve McLean in more active play I suppose.
Putting our boring, common-sense hat back on you'd say Dunks is best equipped for the task on Cripps but he's arguably our most influential mid at the moment so do we rob our engine room of some drive in the hope Cripps gets 30 instead of 45?
It's all a bit moot unless Macrae, Libba and Co can find another gear.
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Re: Always Right Match Committee Thread Round 13, Vs Carlton
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bornadog
That is the key to beating Carlton, he killed us last time. They don't have anyone else in the midfield.
Could Mclean play as a tagger?
I think we need a defensive forward if Simpson is healthy to play again.
We've tried McLean and Suckling there. Perhaps Rhylee or Porter get their shot? Porter laid 8 tackles last week and Rhylee just looks like he will be a player.
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Re: Always Right Match Committee Thread Round 13, Vs Carlton
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Originally Posted by
Mofra
I think we need a defensive forward if Simpson is healthy to play again.
We've tried McLean and Suckling there. Perhaps Rhylee or Porter get their shot? Porter laid 8 tackles last week and Rhylee just looks like he will be a player.
It was very hard to pick out who played well yesterday at VFL ad the conditions were atrocious. Rhylee was the stand out along with Porter and Lew Young.
I will wait till this weeks VFL game before deciding on who is in and out.
At this stage, I am thinking Mclean needs a spell, I am still not impressed with Dale - he had chances to kick a few and just fluffs it.
Williams was very disappointing and the break for Smith can't come quick enough.
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Re: Always Right Match Committee Thread Round 13, Vs Carlton
Carlton most likely to sack their coach - hope it happens this week and not the week after :eek:
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Re: Always Right Match Committee Thread Round 13, Vs Carlton
What did we learn from the West Coast game that can be applied to give a better result in the next one?
1. look at the last minute of play. McLean marks on the lead 45 metres from goal (on an angle). Walks back to 60 metres. Kicks inboard to a teammate 60 metres from goal. They walk back to 70 metres. They pass to someone 40 metres from goal but it is turned over.
Two inside 50s and no shot at goal. Why? Because the first entry was dumb and should not have happened.
The team needs to develop forward craft. Who can kick what and from where.
2. Look at the match stats in the Age. One of West Coast’s top 10 possession getters had more handballs than kicks. Guess what it was for the Dogs. That’s the reason our backline gets overwhelmed, the kicking teams have better score lines.
we had 50 more handballs than Geelong but they kicked 21-6 and we had 45 more than West Coast and they kicked 21-7.
obviously some handball is great, but a lot of ours simply puts forwards and backs in poor situations.
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Re: Always Right Match Committee Thread Round 13, Vs Carlton
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bornadog
MJP has been telling us that we have a problem defending, and that was highly evident yesterday, yet we have been banging on about inaccuracy in front of goal. Guess what, that is our problem - defence all over the ground.
we had 40 more disposals than Geelong and 20 more than West Coast. But got smashed both times.
What we do with the ball is our biggest problem.
fix that and the defenders will have a chance.
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Re: Always Right Match Committee Thread Round 13, Vs Carlton
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bornadog
Carlton most likely to sack their coach - hope it happens this week and not the week after :eek:
Your wish granted.
Bolton gone.
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Re: Always Right Match Committee Thread Round 13, Vs Carlton
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Yankee Hotel Foxtrot
Your wish granted.
Bolton gone.
Better than just before our game.
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Re: Always Right Match Committee Thread Round 13, Vs Carlton
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mofra
Has Macrae mentally checked out? He's a shadow of his former self.
At halftime I had JJ as an out to make a statement, however he clearly responded to a bake at halftime.
I'd put Gardner back, English forward, and put Trengove in the ruck. If Carlton get easy supply to Cripps they win, inside mid opponents can kill us (Cripps, Cunnington have done it and evn Gaff destroyed us for clearances yesterday).
Honestly I wouldn't be surprised to see Macrae following Dah's example from last year and request a trade to "freshen up". He looks frustrated by the chaotic nature of the team and random roles players play from week to week, and looks like he's just going through the motions until the season finishes. He's a player who's very strong on his views of where and how he plays his best footy, and likes stability, neither of which he's getting anymore. I can see him fielding offers where he can play as a permanent midfielder with a defined role in a team with some stability. I hope I'm wrong because he's close to my favourite player but he's playing like someone looking for the door.
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Re: Always Right Match Committee Thread Round 13, Vs Carlton
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mofra
Has Macrae mentally checked out? He's a shadow of his former self.
At halftime I had JJ as an out to make a statement, however he clearly responded to a bake at halftime.
I'd put Gardner back, English forward, and put Trengove in the ruck. If Carlton get easy supply to Cripps they win, inside mid opponents can kill us (Cripps, Cunnington have done it and evn Gaff destroyed us for clearances yesterday).
You had JJ out at half time as a statement?
He made one awful mistake (although I could see what he was trying to do, the WCE player tread water rather than being drawn to JJ) - but otherwise, at half time I think JJ had 18 possessions and was going at 90% efficiency and cover more metres gained that anyone on the ground. He was breaking the lines and hitting targets and was our best on ground.
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Re: Always Right Match Committee Thread Round 13, Vs Carlton
One thing is for sure - we won't tag Cripps. He'll just get 35+ because we are much too clever to tag.
Gaff must have slept in the change rooms the night before the game he'd have been that excited. His last 5 games v us, 5 wins, and 175 disposals (35 per game). Him and Darling just dine out on us every single time.
So we will allow Cripps to do the same.
Will also look forward to watching Lachie Young and Easton Wood play on Carlton forwards that are 10-12 cms taller than them. Cordy too I'd guess.
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Re: Always Right Match Committee Thread Round 13, Vs Carlton
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Danjul
we had 40 more disposals than Geelong and 20 more than West Coast. But got smashed both times.
What we do with the ball is our biggest problem.
fix that and the defenders will have a chance.
I don't want to go back and check the numbers for Geelong, but vs West Coast we had more possessions...but LESS KICKS.
Without wanting to dig out my posts of two weeks ago where I detailed all of this let me cut to the chase:
1/. Our ball movement is a MASSIVE problem - we over handball and generally f about with it. And we play-on too much particularly when we have no 'forwards' (aka team-mates) in position ahead of us to receive the ball.
2/. Whilst our ball movement cannot be isolated from our defensive mechanisms (obviously), for you to continue to insist that if we just use the ball a bit better everything will be OK is simply crazy. We are not set behind the ball EVER.
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Re: Always Right Match Committee Thread Round 13, Vs Carlton
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ozza
You had JJ out at half time as a statement?
I would have dropped Macrae after the last game against Carlton and said so on here (not that I got a lot of support for it at the time). Terrible body language and it has not gotten any better...yesterday it may have been the worst I have ever seen it.
Maybe he is injured - if so, I wish the club would just tell us.
As an aside, has Bontempelli played a worse game than he did yesterday? What is actually WRONG with these guys? Why does it seem as if they simply don't care? (I know that they do - and are suffering a lot more than we are - but it just LOOKS TERRIBLE). Gowers does stupid things and is frustrating, but at least (in his own misdirected ways) he seems as if he gives a @#$%.
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Re: Always Right Match Committee Thread Round 13, Vs Carlton
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Originally Posted by
mjp
I would have dropped Macrae after the last game against Carlton and said so on here (not that I got a lot of support for it at the time). Terrible body language and it has not gotten any better...yesterday it may have been the worst I have ever seen it.
Maybe he is injured - if so, I wish the club would just tell us.
As an aside, has Bontempelli played a worse game than he did yesterday? What is actually WRONG with these guys? Why does it seem as if they simply don't care? (I know that they do - and are suffering a lot more than we are - but it just LOOKS TERRIBLE). Gowers does stupid things and is frustrating, but at least (in his own misdirected ways) he seems as if he gives a @#$%.
Is it a loss of confidence?
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Re: Always Right Match Committee Thread Round 13, Vs Carlton
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ozza
You had JJ out at half time as a statement?
Yes. And I really think we need to do something drastic, not just continue as if everything is fine.
After Macrae's last efforts he needs to be read the riot act. It's all well and good to demote a Schache or Richards as second year players with us, but right now we need to reward effort over reputation/ability.
Bailey Dale with zero tackles in two games goes as well for mine until he can demonstrate intensity.
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Re: Always Right Match Committee Thread Round 13, Vs Carlton
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Originally Posted by
bornadog
Is it a loss of confidence?
Defensive running isn't about confidence as much as it's about care and effort.
Macrae just isn't getting to enough contests in any phase of the game in comparison to what he's capable of.
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Re: Always Right Match Committee Thread Round 13, Vs Carlton
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bornadog
Is it a loss of confidence?
Or loss of giving a shit?
Seems like hes going through the motions.
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Re: Always Right Match Committee Thread Round 13, Vs Carlton
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mofra
It's all well and good to demote a Schache or Richards as second year players with us, but right now we need to reward effort over reputation/ability.
Bailey Dale with zero tackles in two games goes as well for mine until he can demonstrate intensity.
Hey - a post that makes sense. If the players aren't following the plan - and how can they be? - then the ones who aren't following it need to be left out. And that means one of our 'key players'/'most talented players' needs to go.
There is no point in making changes around the periphery of the side. Schache doesn't decide games at this point in his career. He doesn't lead. Bont, Macrae, Wood, Hunter, Libber, Suckling, JJ...these are (like it or lump it) our leaders. Are they playing according to our 'trademark' or not. If not, relegate them.
What's the worse thing that can happen? We lose? In case no-one has noticed, we are already doing that.
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Re: Always Right Match Committee Thread Round 13, Vs Carlton
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mjp
I would have dropped Macrae after the last game against Carlton and said so on here (not that I got a lot of support for it at the time). Terrible body language and it has not gotten any better...yesterday it may have been the worst I have ever seen it.
Maybe he is injured - if so, I wish the club would just tell us.
As an aside, has Bontempelli played a worse game than he did yesterday? What is actually WRONG with these guys? Why does it seem as if they simply don't care? (I know that they do - and are suffering a lot more than we are - but it just LOOKS TERRIBLE). Gowers does stupid things and is frustrating, but at least (in his own misdirected ways) he seems as if he gives a @#$%.
Bontempelli had a shocker yesterday. He was awful at the centre bounces and had the fumbles all day.
Given he's been as good as nearly anyone in the league this year - I'm prepared to forgive!
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Re: Always Right Match Committee Thread Round 13, Vs Carlton
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ozza
Bontempelli had a shocker yesterday. He was awful at the centre bounces and had the fumbles all day.
Given he's been as good as nearly anyone in the league this year - I'm prepared to forgive!
Yeah - he's been epic this season, no argument from me. Not everyone has though...
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Re: Always Right Match Committee Thread Round 13, Vs Carlton
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mjp
I don't want to go back and check the numbers for Geelong, but vs West Coast we had more possessions...but LESS KICKS.
Without wanting to dig out my posts of two weeks ago where I detailed all of this let me cut to the chase:
1/. Our ball movement is a MASSIVE problem - we over handball and generally f about with it. And we play-on too much particularly when we have no 'forwards' (aka team-mates) in position ahead of us to receive the ball.
2/. Whilst our ball movement cannot be isolated from our defensive mechanisms (obviously), for you to continue to insist that if we just use the ball a bit better everything will be OK is simply crazy. We are not set behind the ball EVER.
I have never suggested that. I have said repeatedly that they are using a high risk game plan which requires better skills than they have.
So I agree 100 % with everything you have said except for using the ball better won’t make a significant difference.
Very few in the team can reliably pass 40 metres by foot. Often they miss by 10 or 15, with the ball going out or making it easy for the opposition to gather when our game plan has put half of the team out of position. The kicking skills are the worst I have seen in a long time and continually put others under pressure. And should be fixed as quickly as possible.
How often do they kick to a contest where we get outmarked? Very often. Because the team lacks height they form packs where everyone tries to spoil, a gift for the opponents. Then Two or three kicks from the opponents and they have either a goal or a shot at goal. See it week after week.
The ball mistakes are killing us. So is bad strategy.
where do our defenders set up? They stay back because most are not strong enough to play body on body. They try to jump and spoil. That’s why we see so many chest marks from spearing entries. And I suspect some play under extra pressure knowing they will be dropped quickly.
And where do you find them? Frequently not near their opponent because they have to flood forward with the handball game. Turnovers happen too often.
Look at how often our defenders are in the forward half of the ground. Dangerous when the opposition is faster.
When the team is defending they zone off from their opponents to guard space, so opposition kick ins ,for example, generate twice as many metres gained as ours.
It is not the player’s fault if they are obviously following orders.
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Re: Always Right Match Committee Thread Round 13, Vs Carlton
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Danjul
In the last three weeks the opposition teams have kicked 60 goals 20 against the Dogs. That’s 380 points.
We have had 3 disastrous losses.
In the last three weeks the opposition teams have had a total of 10 more scoring shots than the Dogs.
Focusing on the second statement holds the key to better success. Why do 10 kicks make so much difference?
Because The selectors have been doing the same thing for the last 40 games and it has not worked. I am sure they will keep doing it.
What should they be doing? Getting a new mindset would be a good start. Focus on what is actually generating the results for a change instead of blaming players. Some of the suggestions made here seem very positive to me.
And our response has been nowhere near as accurate
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Re: Always Right Match Committee Thread Round 13, Vs Carlton
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Danjul
I have never suggested that. I have said repeatedly that they are using a high risk game plan which requires better skills than they have.
Let's continue to agree to disagree. In post #20 of this very thread you said:
"What we do with the ball is our biggest problem. fix that and the defenders will have a chance."
I do like how you are saying we need to kick more. We 100% do.
I do like how you are identifying that our defenders are pushing up to become involved in (unnecessary) handball chains.
I agree both of those things are major problems. I don't think we are WORSE kicks than other sides...but because we handball ourselves into trouble so many times - and play-on when we don't need to - we 'pluck' ball movement decisions from a place where the sun doesn't shine and bad things are the result.
I don't necessarily agree it isn't the players fault - I am not sure they are following orders ('cos I don't know what the orders are)...BUT when defenders are trailing up and allowing lead-up space (aka 'caravanning') on their opponents, I am pretty sure that they aren't being told to do that. We are (under Bevo) a zone defending, play in front sort of defensive group. I will continue to insist that we started changing this last year to a behind the ball structure consisting of 1v1 match-ups keyed on Naughton as the defensive interceptor...but that change was thrown out (along with everything else - Williams in the mids, Trengove in the ruck etc etc) in Rd#1 this season after the practice match disasters and I remain convinced that has contributed to the chaos/problems behind the ball. Because whilst ball-movement changes can be made 'in season', defensive ones are HARD because they are not instinctive to most players. About the only thing that hasn't changed is the use of Daniel as a d50 distributor...but I think he would be a LOT more effective if he had Naughton floating around saving his bacon...but we'll never know now, will we??
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Re: Always Right Match Committee Thread Round 13, Vs Carlton
Will we do the unthinkable and play someone on Cripps to limit his influence?
If so, who will we go with?
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Re: Always Right Match Committee Thread Round 13, Vs Carlton
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GVGjr
Will we do the unthinkable and play someone on Cripps to limit his influence?
If so, who will we go with?
Makes sense as Cripps is their playmaker. Dunkley is our in form midfielder and appeals as the obvious one with good aerial skills to match Cripps in the air. The other challenge facing the Club is our ability to match the Blues height on their forward line. We were far too short previously.
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Re: Always Right Match Committee Thread Round 13, Vs Carlton
Intrigued to note Fagan's response when asked yesterday about Cripps' influence.
He basically said they had a crack at tagging him but it wasn't working so they pretty much gave up on the idea.
Gobsmacking honesty.
If we plonk Dunks onto him I trust the other mids will lift their output to compensate.