Re: Can someone (please) explain to me the reason we would trade for Stef Martin (or another ruck only player).
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Originally Posted by
Twodogs
Who is his dad?
CEO of Hawthorn.
Re: Can someone (please) explain to me the reason we would trade for Stef Martin (or another ruck only player).
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Originally Posted by
Mofra
I'd prefer a longer term solution. Ladhams, Max Lynch.
I still think there's a way to negotiate with Collingwood for Brodie Grundy and to find a solution with his contract. He's still only 27 and would be a great 1-2 with English for at least 5 years.
Re: Can someone (please) explain to me the reason we would trade for Stef Martin (or another ruck only player).
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Originally Posted by
SquirrelGrip
I still think there's a way to negotiate with Collingwood for Brodie Grundy and to find a solution with his contract. He's still only 27 and would be a great 1-2 with English for at least 5 years.
Why would a club let go one of the best rucks in the AFL?
Re: Can someone (please) explain to me the reason we would trade for Stef Martin (or another ruck only player).
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Originally Posted by
bornadog
Why would a club let go one of the best rucks in the AFL?
How could we possibly afford him along with Bont, Macrae, Treloar, Dunks, Naughton, Smith, English, Daniel and Marra in future years.
We are going to have a very difficult time keeping all our talent let alone bringing in the very player who's massive contract forced senior players out and started a rebuild at the biggest club who were expecting finals wins with that squad.
If anything we are going to have to give up some to keep these guys.
Re: Can someone (please) explain to me the reason we would trade for Stef Martin (or another ruck only player).
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Originally Posted by
bornadog
Why would a club let go one of the best rucks in the AFL?
This is the club that let go their best midfielder to us. They would let him go precisely so they can clear their badly managed salary cap and with a new coach, start setting up a team for their next flag.
Re: Can someone (please) explain to me the reason we would trade for Stef Martin (or another ruck only player).
Great rucks are very important but not $1M year and jeopardise your salary cap important. Hopefully we can find a good one that doesn't break the bank.
Re: Can someone (please) explain to me the reason we would trade for Stef Martin (or another ruck only player).
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Originally Posted by
comrade
Great rucks are very important but not $1M year and jeopardise your salary cap important. Hopefully we can find a good one that doesn't break the bank.
The Dogs have to solve the current ruck problem - the MC will not select one.
The person doesnÂ’t have to win every contest. Our midfield is good enough to make up for their deficiencies. We didnÂ’t have the dominant ruckman in the first dozen games. But the opposition was blown away.
The person chosen simply has to exist on the field so winning structures are preserved.
We have had games this year when forwards and/or backs have played very badly and no one bats an eye. But if a ruckman might have an off day they canÂ’t be considered. The 2021 premiership is at stake and the last few games suggest it is slipping away.
Re: Can someone (please) explain to me the reason we would trade for Stef Martin (or another ruck only player).
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Originally Posted by
Danjul
The Dogs have to solve the current ruck problem - the MC will not select one.
The person doesnÂ’t have to win every contest. Our midfield is good enough to make up for their deficiencies. We didnÂ’t have the dominant ruckman in the first dozen games. But the opposition was blown away.
The person chosen simply has to exist on the field so winning structures are preserved.
We have had games this year when forwards and/or backs have played very badly and no one bats an eye. But if a ruckman might have an off day they canÂ’t be considered. The 2021 premiership is at stake and the last few games suggest it is slipping away.
You are criminally underrating the job Stef did when he was fit. He was more than just a warm body. The suggestion that anyone tall can do the job is ridiculous.
Re: Can someone (please) explain to me the reason we would trade for Stef Martin (or another ruck only player).
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Originally Posted by
Axe Man
You are criminally underrating the job Stef did when he was fit. He was more than just a warm body. The suggestion that anyone tall can do the job is ridiculous.
That was the dominant philosophy at the club and on WOOF for years. That’s why there’s a problem now.
Martin rarely won the ruck contest and has not contributed much around the ground (never took more than 2 marks in a game).
What he showed was that if you prevent your opponents from being match winners you have done a good job.
A champion ruckman would be great, maybe next year. But they are not making the Dogs premiers this year.
The important thing is a premiership this year,
Re: Can someone (please) explain to me the reason we would trade for Stef Martin (or another ruck only player).
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Originally Posted by
Danjul
That was the dominant philosophy at the club and on WOOF for years. That’s why there’s a problem now.
Martin rarely won the ruck contest and has not contributed much around the ground (never took more than 2 marks in a game).
What he showed was that if you prevent your opponents from being match winners you have done a good job.
A champion ruckman would be great, maybe next year. But they are not making the Dogs premiers this year.
The important thing is a premiership this year,
I don't disagree what you are saying, but you were seemingly asserting that we can just play anyone in the ruck other than English and we will automatically be a better team. It's just not that simple.
Martin and Sweet have an almost identical hitout win rate of 34%. But really as you say that is not overly important. Preventing the other ruckman from getting on top is the key. Whether Sweet can do that as well as Martin is the question.
As an aside English seems to have improved his competitiveness in the ruck in recent weeks which complicates the issue. Tim offers more around the ground than either Martin or Sweet so the answer is not as straightforward as you suggest.
Re: Can someone (please) explain to me the reason we would trade for Stef Martin (or another ruck only player).
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Axe Man
I don't disagree what you are saying, but you were seemingly asserting that we can just play anyone in the ruck other than English and we will automatically be a better team. It's just not that simple.
Martin and Sweet have an almost identical hitout win rate of 34%. But really as you say that is not overly important. Preventing the other ruckman from getting on top is the key. Whether Sweet can do that as well as Martin is the question.
As an aside English seems to have improved his competitiveness in the ruck in recent weeks which complicates the issue. Tim offers more around the ground than either Martin or Sweet so the answer is not as straightforward as you suggest.
This is the thing if Martin isn't playing we should be putting time into Sweet. If we did two things can happen, one we find out that Sweet has an up swing and will develop in time and is therefore worth the time and energy or he is totally shown up as not being quite good enough for the AFL and we can move on.
Re: Can someone (please) explain to me the reason we would trade for Stef Martin (or another ruck only player).
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Originally Posted by
Hotdog60
This is the thing if Martin isn't playing we should be putting time into Sweet. If we did two things can happen, one we find out that Sweet has an up swing and will develop in time and is therefore worth the time and energy or he is totally shown up as not being quite good enough for the AFL and we can move on.
I do have a sneaking suspicion that Bevo is just going to back English in to be our main man moving forward, including 2022 and beyond.
Re: Can someone (please) explain to me the reason we would trade for Stef Martin (or another ruck only player).
It is clear that English has improved. He was very good against NicNat and seems to have developed a bit more technique.
The options of getting a chop out from Bruce/Cordy or Young (when played) seems as far as Bevo is now prepared to go.
Re: Can someone (please) explain to me the reason we would trade for Stef Martin (or another ruck only player).
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Originally Posted by
Hotdog60
This is the thing if Martin isn't playing we should be putting time into Sweet. If we did two things can happen, one we find out that Sweet has an up swing and will develop in time and is therefore worth the time and energy or he is totally shown up as not being quite good enough for the AFL and we can move on.
Again I think that is a tough call to make. If we were in the bottom half of the ladder - for sure. When we are potentially challenging for a flag, I can see arguements both ways. In one camp - get games into Sweet, he could be just what we need. The counter - he's not good enough (yet or perhaps ever), he could cost us games if we play him.
I'm glad I don't have to make these decisions.
Re: Can someone (please) explain to me the reason we would trade for Stef Martin (or another ruck only player).
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hotdog60
This is the thing if Martin isn't playing we should be putting time into Sweet. If we did two things can happen, one we find out that Sweet has an up swing and will develop in time and is therefore worth the time and energy or he is totally shown up as not being quite good enough for the AFL and we can move on.
He had a few terrible weeks at VFL level though (beaten by Stanley and Tom Campbell)
You don't promote a guy to find out if his bad form will magically turn around at AFL level when you're fighting for a top four spot.
I want us to find a ruck at the end of the year to relase English to the second ruck/forward role, but as it stands right now Sweet isn't that guy. After a pre-season or two he may be.