King at home among Dogs

[chef]

2 out of three aint bad chef.
Let's see what Will offers us in 2012.
If Rocket were still here I would agree, more of the same to come. but for two reasons, I think he is a chance to see his stocks go up. 1. His role in the team is going to be under more scrutiny because of new coaching staff. Fresh eyes and a chance to re-assess his game.

2. With Huddo out and a developing side, he'll be able to assume more leadership and responsibility having a more available slot - more so than in the past. Got to be good for him. Either way, I feel it's unfair to write him off just yet.

Re his strengths, we have been underdone in the smaller, running, crumbing type bar Dahlhaus for sometime. Lacking in successful combinations at present in attacking half.
Am sure it's hard to find anyone with faith here in Will's abilities in f50 but can see his type working well in other teams ( Ohalpin, Brown in combination with smaller runners ) so can't see why it won't work for us.

Ok, so shoot me down, whatever. At least there is some logic here rather than just slapping the reject label on him when there is still time left on the clock - not to mention some faith from the coaching circle. These guys are not idiots.

Isn't that a team weakness, not one of Willies strengths?

To me, his weakness's are a lack of mobility, agility, speed, footy smarts and he isn't a great mark.

His strength would be his aggression at the contest(which can be a weakness when used in the wrong way) and his tap work. He is one of the better tap ruckmen in the league but he needs at least another string to his bow to command a best 22 spot.

I do hope he can add something else to his game as we don't have much depth in our rucking department and our drafting in this area isn't great.

[Ghost Dog]

Isn't that a team weakness, not one of Willies strengths?

To me, his weakness's are a lack of mobility, agility, speed, footy smarts and he isn't a great mark.

His strength would be his aggression at the contest(which can be a weakness when used in the wrong way) and his tap work. He is one of the better tap ruckmen in the league but he needs at least another string to his bow to command a best 22 spot.

I do hope he can add something else to his game as we don't have much depth in our rucking department and our drafting in this area isn't great.

Valid points. Much better than 'not up to AFL standard'.

Much maligned under Rocket, not a great ball user, but does make a contest for others to grab the thing and use it. My point is, he is going to look much better on field with the right kind of support / combination of players.

Some players simply don't get a look in and coaches have their favourites. Will wasn't one of Rocket's, that's for sure

[chef]

Valid points. Much better than 'not up to AFL standard'.

Much maligned under Rocket, not a great ball user, but does make a contest for others to grab the thing and use it. My point is, he is going to look much better on field with the right kind of support / combination of players.

Some players simply don't get a look in and coaches have their favourites. Will wasn't one of Rocket's, that's for sure

Fair enough, to me that sums it up perfectly.

[Dancin' Douggy]

I think Will can be an inspiring competitor.

He's not a good enough contested mark to count as a ruck/forward.

But as a No.1 Ruckman week in week out I think he can rise to be a powerful presence.

Was Hudson a threat sneaking/resting forward? No.

Will's time is now, and I have faith in him as a powerhouse smash and bash ruckman.
We all know Eade had his starting 22 locked in every week and changes were really only made for injuries or truly appalling long term form.
Hudson had the number one ruck role and that meant Will couldn't get a game.

I'm in his corner and have faith he will deliver.

[1eyedog]

I'm sorry I have more faith in Roughie being a dangerous forward/ruck than Will. Will has hard hands. His strengths are his competitive nature and desire for the contest, but this is also his down fall because he (at least appears) to give away a lot of free kicks. He has the ability to spark his team mates with something quite brilliant but then lets the coaching staff down by doing something stupid. He must be a frustrating player to coach. I think King can help grow his confidence, which must surely be low playing second fiddle to Hudson for so long. If King can do this, and sustain this, I think the battle is half won because it will create a vastly superior player to what we have thus far seen.

[LostDoggy]

Because he would have established himself by now if he was ever going to.

I don't agree, the beard was preferred to Will on many occasions and maybe undeservedly.

[Remi Moses]

I think Will can be an inspiring competitor.

He's not a good enough contested mark to count as a ruck/forward.

But as a No.1 Ruckman week in week out I think he can rise to be a powerful presence.

Was Hudson a threat sneaking/resting forward? No.

Will's time is now, and I have faith in him as a powerhouse smash and bash ruckman.
We all know Eade had his starting 22 locked in every week and changes were really only made for injuries or truly appalling long term form.
Hudson had the number one ruck role and that meant Will couldn't get a game.

I'm in his corner and have faith he will deliver.

Agree with this. Personally think Will won't make it ( hope I'm wrong)No more excuses for Big Will and if he doesn't come through it's time to go.

[Mofra]

His strength would be his aggression at the contest(which can be a weakness when used in the wrong way) and his tap work. He is one of the better tap ruckmen in the league but he needs at least another string to his bow to command a best 22 spot.

Get King to work on his ability to use his body to create space in close - arguably the biggest unique attribute a ruckman can bring to the side, and something I admit I underrated until I was playing ruck this year.

It's not pretty, doesn't get stats and is probably missed by most fans watching the game, but it makes a massive difference and Minson with his natural aggression should lap it up.

[immortalmike]

I don't agree, the beard was preferred to Will on many occasions and maybe undeservedly.

In 2011 yes, but for the bulk of Huddo's time he was one of the biggest (pun slightly intended) reasons we were top 4. Don't forget the year before we got Huddo we were 4th last and the year later we were top 4.

Get King to work on his ability to use his body to create space in close - arguably the biggest unique attribute a ruckman can bring to the side, and something I admit I underrated until I was playing ruck this year.

It's not pretty, doesn't get stats and is probably missed by most fans watching the game, but it makes a massive difference and Minson with his natural aggression should lap it up.

This was something Hudson did very, very well. We will miss this if Wil can't provide it.

[azabob]

Get King to work on his ability to use his body to create space in close - arguably the biggest unique attribute a ruckman can bring to the side, and something I admit I underrated until I was playing ruck this year.

It's not pretty, doesn't get stats and is probably missed by most fans watching the game, but it makes a massive difference and Minson with his natural aggression should lap it up.

Great point. Hudson was brilliant at this and this is probably the biggest reason he was ahead of Minson.

As you say hopefully Minson can master this.

I don't see why he can't as he appears to be willing to learn and isn't afraid of getting his hands dirty.

[divvydan]

There's no doubt in my mind that Minson is, in how he plays, a more natural number one ruckman than a relieving second ruckman/resting forward.

Just thinking back through his career, I can't really remember a time when he was the first choice ruckman for a sustained period of time, with Darcy, Street and Hudson all playing that role ahead of him.

[Ghost Dog]

Great point. Hudson was brilliant at this and this is probably the biggest reason he was ahead of Minson.

As you say hopefully Minson can master this.

I don't see why he can't as he appears to be willing to learn and isn't afraid of getting his hands dirty.

Well, I'm going out on a limb. Will seems to me a really intelligent young guy, who doesn't lack love of a contest, something the new coach is really keen on. I feel he will really respond to Bmac's more cerebral style of coaching in a 'teacherly' way.
Backing Will to eclipse his past efforts in 2012.

[1eyedog]

Get King to work on his ability to use his body to create space in close - arguably the biggest unique attribute a ruckman can bring to the side, and something I admit I underrated until I was playing ruck this year.

It's not pretty, doesn't get stats and is probably missed by most fans watching the game, but it makes a massive difference and Minson with his natural aggression should lap it up.

This is getting harder and harder to do for all ruckmen. The ones who try it are usually bereft of talent, too short and very heavy but I agree it is valuable because it not only creates space but it is the only way to combat the leap of Nic Nat and the sheer height of Sandilands. The trouble with Will is using his body and natural aggression usually always result in opposition free kicks. If King can teach it and more importantly Will can learn it all the better.

[Mofra]

This is getting harder and harder to do for all ruckmen. The ones who try it are usually bereft of talent, too short and very heavy but I agree it is valuable because it not only creates space but it is the only way to combat the leap of Nic Nat and the sheer height of Sandilands. The trouble with Will is using his body and natural aggression usually always result in opposition free kicks. If King can teach it and more importantly Will can learn it all the better.

Will is about where Hudson was when he started with the Crows - I certainly haven't shut the door on Minson improving, considering he is playing the no 1 ruck role (his more natural role) and has the most important attribute a ruckman can have - an appetite for the contest.

[1eyedog]

Will is about where Hudson was when he started with the Crows - I certainly haven't shut the door on Minson improving, considering he is playing the no 1 ruck role (his more natural role) and has the most important attribute a ruckman can have - an appetite for the contest.

If this is your opinion this is troubling. Huddo hadn't played a game of AFL when he was drafted to the Crows from Werribee as a 25 year old. Will has played 115 games of senior AFL footballer. Will has rucked a fair few times for us without Hudson with questionable results.

My thought is that there is not a lot of improvement left in Will and he is just filling in a gap until (if) Roughead/Cordy can find some aggression and ruck for us one day.