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Thread: Liam Picken

  1. #31
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    Re: Liam Picken

    Quote Originally Posted by stefoid View Post
    So every team needs a dedicated tagger then?
    I think they do, particularly when the majority of midfielders aren't as accountable as they should be.

  2. #32
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    Re: Liam Picken

    Quote Originally Posted by stefoid View Post
    Why are we so obsessed with tagging? How about everyone in the team just does a decent job defensively and offensively?

    Dal is one of our best playmakers and people want him to tag?
    Agreed Stef., I would only have Dal go into a tagging role as a way of shaking off a tag of his own.
    And yes, I think in modern footy every side does need at least one dedicated tagger, to stop an opponent who is/will tear you apart.
    I agree, as I am pretty sure B.Mac does that every player needs to play accountable football on his own opponent, but there are some guys who are just so destructive and talented they require constant and in their pockets type attention if they are not to destroy you.
    That is not to say you want players who's only skill is to negate. Picken is an ideal player that way. If let loose from the requirement to tag, he is capable of being very effective offensively, a bit like late career Libba Sen.

  3. #33
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    Re: Liam Picken

    The problem Ive always had with hard tags is that if the tag does well, you break even - both players have little effect on the game. If the tag is beaten you, you lose that position badly - its like being a man down.

    And the truly elite players are truly elite because they beat tags week in, week out. So you dont bother to tag those guys anyway.

    If Picken could do the type of job he does, and contribute something offensively at the same time, then Im all for it, otherwise I see it as a bit of a defeatist move, like stacking the backline to restrict how much you lose by.

  4. #34
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    Re: Liam Picken

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost Dog View Post
    You might be on to something. On one hand, I'm not sure he has the mongrel. On the other, he shows very little emotion when he plays and I think this can be a big advantage for a tagger. Nothing much seems to phase him.
    Doesn't have the mongrel? Some of his work backing into packs was inspirational

  5. #35
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    Re: Liam Picken

    Quote Originally Posted by stefoid View Post
    The problem Ive always had with hard tags is that if the tag does well, you break even - both players have little effect on the game. If the tag is beaten you, you lose that position badly - its like being a man down.

    And the truly elite players are truly elite because they beat tags week in, week out. So you dont bother to tag those guys anyway.

    If Picken could do the type of job he does, and contribute something offensively at the same time, then Im all for it, otherwise I see it as a bit of a defeatist move, like stacking the backline to restrict how much you lose by.
    So are you suggesting that sides allow the Judds, Swans and Abletts of this world to simply run rampant unopposed [ basically], and simply hope our guys can contribute their equal in output ?

    Boy if so, good luck with that one. I doubt you find a single coach in the league who will agree with that proposition.

  6. #36
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    Re: Liam Picken

    Quote Originally Posted by lemmon View Post
    Doesn't have the mongrel? Some of his work backing into packs was inspirational
    I mean the ability to harrass and annoy the sh** out of Judd or Swan or whoever. Get in their head.

    Like this. Who's that little pest pointing the finger? Isn't he too short to play footy?? ^_^




    Link good article on art of tagging. And in the article, it does argue that the Brett Kirks and Cameron Lings never needed to be a bit down and dirty. So maybe Jong can be like them.
    You don't develop courage by being happy in your relationships every day. You develop it by surviving difficult times and challenging adversity. ― Epicurus

  7. #37
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    Re: Liam Picken

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost Dog View Post
    And in the article, it does argue that the Brett Kirks and Cameron Lings never needed to be a bit down and dirty. So maybe Jong can be like them.
    Yeah, in Lings case he just spent the entire match holding onto Cooney's jumper. And for some reason he never got picked up on it by the umpires.
    I should leave it alone but you're not right

  8. #38
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    Re: Liam Picken

    Quote Originally Posted by paulv View Post
    So are you suggesting that sides allow the Judds, Swans and Abletts of this world to simply run rampant unopposed [ basically], and simply hope our guys can contribute their equal in output ?

    Boy if so, good luck with that one. I doubt you find a single coach in the league who will agree with that proposition.
    Yes, Im saying any opposition player who doesnt receive a hard tag is allowed to run rampant. those being the only two possibilities.

    Just play a decent payer on them who will defend when necessary and attack when they can - not a hard tag. You wont stop those guys in their tracks. The best way to keep them honest is to make them defend their opponent also.

  9. #39
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    Re: Liam Picken

    So I’m interested in other people opinions of Liam:

    For mine he's becoming a liability. I'll explain.

    This season he's played a relatively new area of the field. He's played a shut down tagging role basically since he's been at the club, but usually not as deep in defence as this season.

    His ball usage is average, and down back it's more critical than any other position to get your disposal right imo. He regularly goes to ground, and if the contest isn't won, then this creates pressure for our other defenders and opens up the attacking team. You'd only have to ask that poor goal umpire that suffered the knee injury his opinion of Liams desperate, yet needless lunge agains Freo.

    With Lower doing well as a run with tagger through the middle (Pickens former role) perhaps his area should be down in a forward pocket where he's shown he has some goal nous in previous seasons.

    If it's not there then I think his bow strings are beginning to be run out.

    In my household he's known as the snot-nosed school kid. Reson being he throws himself around like a hyperactive primary school kid would on the footy oval at lunch during winter. You'd imagine his mothers delight when he walks through the door, torn school jumper, blood nose, mud all over him, grin from ear to ear.

    Thoughts?

  10. #40
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    Re: Liam Picken

    Tend to agree.

    When watching the game on Saturday, the comment went out "geez, Picken has become a liability". His disposal has always been suspect to the point that he was the most ineffective (in terms of disposals) midfielder in the competition last year.

    He seems to have lost his way particularly around the contest, the amount of times he either lost Harvey or let him get into a dangerous postion on the weekend is very concerning.

    Not sure what we do with him as I still think he has plenty to offer but if he keeps serving up these types of performances I can't see how he stays in the side.
    "Loves a scrap....oh yeah & he's a pretty handy footballer as well"

  11. #41
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    Re: Liam Picken

    I would swap his role with Addison. if you are going to play Addison at all, lets stick him back in the backline and get Picken as a defensive forward who has also shown he can snap a goal.
    FFC: Established 1883

    Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.

  12. #42
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    Re: Liam Picken

    Quote Originally Posted by bornadog View Post
    I would swap his role with Addison. if you are going to play Addison at all, lets stick him back in the backline and get Picken as a defensive forward who has also shown he can snap a goal.
    Addison is playing forward because he failed as a defender... It can't see this move working.

    But I do agree that Picken needs a 'sea change'.

  13. #43
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    Re: Liam Picken

    Quote Originally Posted by bornadog View Post
    I would swap his role with Addison. if you are going to play Addison at all, lets stick him back in the backline and get Picken as a defensive forward who has also shown he can snap a goal.
    Why move Addison when he is finally playing a role where he adds value to the side?
    I should leave it alone but you're not right

  14. #44
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    Re: Liam Picken

    Quote Originally Posted by soupaman View Post
    Why move Addison when he is finally playing a role where he adds value to the side?
    Does he? I haven't seen it. Laid two tackles on the weekend.
    FFC: Established 1883

    Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.

  15. #45
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    Re: Liam Picken

    Picken only laid two tackles as well.

    Addison to this point has shown he can kick goals and provide a lead up target as a forward. When referencing Picken's forward prospects most seem to refer to a few snaps he's kicked over his career and the potential for him to put defensive pressure on opposition defenders.

    There's going to have to be a point where we develop some young players who can specifically play as forwards rather than hiding average and or limited players in the forward line.

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