ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

[GVGjr]

"These concerns were written in a letter from Dr Reid addressed to Hamilton and myself.

Unfortunately, I was not given a copy of this letter and did not see this letter until over a year after it was written."

Doesn't stack up. Senior coaches are so wary of supplements and drugs in sport. If you knew the club doc was putting something in writing regards illegal supplements, and you didn't get it, you would chase it up.

So we are to believe that Reid wouldn't have followed up either in the written form or verbally with Hird? Don't think so

[Dry Rot]

That was in the paper this morning. It said that six players are advanced with plane for seperate actions with 5 of them keen to go sooner rather than later. If it were me I'd be getting in ASAP and getting my award ASAP before EFC goes broke. Or enters into a scheme where they pay out so much in the dollar. St Kilda did it in the 1980s when they were close to bankruptcy.

If these cases go ahead, then they will be proper cases in proper courts.

I look forward to Dank and Hird being served subpoenas to give evidence...

[bulldogtragic]

All this Hird stuff is like arguing about whether OJ Simpson did it, despite denying everything time and time again against the evidence. Mind you at least OJ won at least one court case. Can everyone, media included, just cut to the shite and take the microphone off the deluded SOB. It's embarrassing for him and cringeworthy for the rest of us. He did, we know he did it and his denials only serve to prove the guy in egomaniac who has done unknown physical and psychological damage to a lot of people.

[merantau]

That was in the paper this morning. It said that six players are advanced with plane for seperate actions with 5 of them keen to go sooner rather than later. If it were me I'd be getting in ASAP and getting my award ASAP before EFC goes broke. Or enters into a scheme where they pay out so much in the dollar. St Kilda did it in the 1980s when they were close to bankruptcy.

"This is not the end, it is not even the beginning of the end. But it is the end of the beginning."

Churchill's commentary after victory at El Alamein proved prophetic as the War still had three years to run.

I wonder how many years will pass before this saga plays itself out?

[bulldogtragic]

If these cases go ahead, then they will be proper cases in proper courts.

I look forward to Dank and Hird being served subpoenas to give evidence...

Unless they miraculously find a truthful bone in their toxic bodies, I look forward to them being imprisoned for perjury.

[Dry Rot]

So we are to believe that Reid wouldn't have followed up either in the written form or verbally with Hird? Don't think so

Hird claims some sort of hierarchy silo protection i.e. he was in the coaching silo, away from the supplements/medical silo.

Seems to have forgotten his SMSs which show he was very much involved.

[Twodogs]

If these cases go ahead, then they will be proper cases in proper courts.

I look forward to Dank and Hird being served subpoenas to give evidence...

Mmm hmm. Proper cross examination, under oath with a judge to make sure that they don't waffle or sidetrack. In a public court.

[Twodogs]

All this Hird stuff is like arguing about whether OJ Simpson did it, despite denying everything time and time again against the evidence. Mind you at least OJ won at least one court case. Can everyone, media included, just cut to the shite and take the microphone off the deluded SOB. It's embarrassing for him and cringeworthy for the rest of us. He did, we know he did it and his denials only serve to prove the guy in egomaniac who has done unknown physical and psychological damage to a lot of people.

I think he's a sociopath myself. check out the characteristics:

http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html


These so und pretty spot on.

Glibness and Superficial Charm

Manipulative and Conning
They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims.

Grandiose Sense of Self
Feels entitled to certain things as "their right."

Pathological Lying
Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests.

Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.

Shallow Emotions
When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.

Incapacity for Love

Need for Stimulation
Living on the edge. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal. Promiscuity and gambling are common.

Callousness/Lack of Empathy
Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them.
Glibness and Superficial Charm

Manipulative and Conning
They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims.

Grandiose Sense of Self
Feels entitled to certain things as "their right."

Pathological Lying
Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests.

Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.

Shallow Emotions
When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.

Incapacity for Love

Need for Stimulation
Living on the edge. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal. Promiscuity and gambling are common.

Callousness/Lack of Empathy
Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them.

Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature
Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others.

Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency
Usually has a history of behavioral and academic difficulties, yet "gets by" by conning others. Problems in making and keeping friends; aberrant behaviors such as cruelty to people or animals, stealing, etc.

Irresponsibility/Unreliability
Not concerned about wrecking others' lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blames others, even for acts they obviously committed.



You know, given how well I know him personally and all.

[jeemak]

There's a burden of proof on the claimant in a civil case, and with the quality of evidence being questionable in the eyes of some this won't end up in front of a judge. EFC and the AFL will settle out of court.

[Jeanette54]

I seem to remember Essendon pleading guilty to some work cover charges.

If that is so, as an employer, I would think this would make any claim along those lines by the 34 pretty much a lay down messaire.

[bulldogtragic]

I seem to remember Essendon pleading guilty to some work cover charges.

If that is so, as an employer, I would think this would make any claim along those lines by the 34 pretty much a lay down messaire.

For an injury specific lawsuit, the players need to sustain a serious injury certificate or demonstrate to the County Court their injury is serious enough to warrant legal action, which many may get. If they put in Workcover claims for weekly payments for 2.5 years (possibly longer) you're right they'd get Workcover weekly payments and medical treatment covered. I think the strategy will be something called a hamburger with the lot, a massive multi faceted law suit using as many different angles of law, primarily breach of explicit and implied terms of the contract, adding in injury, loss of reputation, pain and suffering and as many other legislative and common law breaches. Plus I'd be suing the club, but also the directors, Hird and anyone else at the club in on it. They're in a world of pain, and I hope all the players exercise their rights under law to remedy the irreparable damage done to them and their career. A class action would be something!

[Twodogs]

For an injury specific lawsuit, the players need to sustain a serious injury certificate or demonstrate to the County Court their injury is serious enough to warrant legal action, which many may get. If they put in Workcover claims for weekly payments for 2.5 years (possibly longer) you're right they'd get Workcover weekly payments and medical treatment covered. I think the strategy will be something called a hamburger with the lot, a massive multi faceted law suit using as many different angles of law, primarily breach of explicit and implied terms of the contract, adding in injury, loss of reputation, pain and suffering and as many other legislative and common law breaches. Plus I'd be suing the club, but also the directors, Hird and anyone else at the club in on it. They're in a world of pain, and I hope all the players exercise their rights under law to remedy the irreparable damage done to them and their career. A class action would be something!

I'd like to see that. That bloody club put their own players in a position where almost all their legal options had been explored by the club trying to exonerate itself. It left them facing the music all by themselves copping a punishment that should have been appropriated on the club and its coaches.

[westdog54]

I'd like to see that. That bloody club put their own players in a position where almost all their legal options had been explored by the club trying to exonerate itself. It left them facing the music all by themselves copping a punishment that should have been appropriated on the club and its coaches.

There it is, right there.

That's the big thing that so many seem to be missing.

The club has had opportunity after opportunity after opportunity to take action that would shield their players from this week's outcome.

They chose instead to encourage their players to not tell the truth.

They chose to either not keep records, or wilfully destroy them (one of them must be the case).

They chose to throw anyone they could under the bus to protect themselves.

They chose to explore every legal avenue possible to have the ASADA investigation quashed, rather than trying to contest the evidence as it stood.

And they've chosen to maintain the 'we did nothing wrong' line throughout.

And the net result is that the players, not the club, are the ones to suffer.

[Ghost Dog]

There it is, right there.

That's the big thing that so many seem to be missing.

The club has had opportunity after opportunity after opportunity to take action that would shield their players from this week's outcome.

They chose instead to encourage their players to not tell the truth.

They chose to either not keep records, or wilfully destroy them (one of them must be the case).

They chose to throw anyone they could under the bus to protect themselves.

They chose to explore every legal avenue possible to have the ASADA investigation quashed, rather than trying to contest the evidence as it stood.

And they've chosen to maintain the 'we did nothing wrong' line throughout.

And the net result is that the players, not the club, are the ones to suffer.

And us. We don't pay Crameri to sit on the bench.

[jeemak]

But, don't lose sight of the fact that comfortable satisfaction within a CAS environment carries a lighter burden of proof than a civil court.

None of what's been stated above is incorrect, but just because something's been determined in the CAS doesn't mean it carries weight in a civil court environment.

Hence my belief civil action by individual players or in the form of a class action will result in an out of court settlement.