Gordon's opinion on Essendon situation

[Greystache]

As much as I respect Peter, and I do, if this was an international sport like cycling, people would be demanding the maximum penalty. Whether the players knew or not is irrelevant, there's no AFL boys club in international sport, if you took something illegal or if there's a good chance you took something illegal you should be punished.

I think the fact we're looking for ways out makes the sport look like an amateur hobby rather than the professional outfit it pretends to be. If this debate was about a Slovakian discus thrower I doubt there would be such generosity about the subject.

[Scorlibo]

As much as I respect Peter, and I do, if this was an international sport like cycling, people would be demanding the maximum penalty. Whether the players knew or not is irrelevant, there's no AFL boys club in international sport, if you took something illegal or if there's a good chance you took something illegal you should be punished.

I think the fact we're looking for ways out makes the sport look like an amateur hobby rather than the professional outfit it pretends to be. If this debate was about a Slovakian discus thrower I doubt there would be such generosity about the subject.

Amateurish is the word, for sure. The bottom line is that players must be responsible for what enters their body. It's a lesson that has now been learnt by every AFL player in the competition, and learnt the hard (unlucky) way by Essendon players. I wouldn't for a moment suggest that had the same thing happened at our club, our players would have made different choices. It's unfortunate for these players who placed their trust in the club. BUT, in response to Peter's comments:

“(The players) are the complete unwitting and innocent victims of what Ziggy Switkowski referred to as an experimental pharmacological environment."

Yes, they were unwitting, but innocent? Innocent of what? Innocent of taking performance-enhancing substances or innocent in the same way that a little girl playing with her dolls is innocent? The concern can only be for the former.

In regards to this 'deal' that was supposedly struck between the AFL and ASADA, it plainly reads as an agreement established at the beginning of the investigation on how the investigation was to be run, and how players might be prosecuted under certain circumstances. It outlines that players 'can' have their sanction removed completely under a defence of no fault or negligence, but places terms upon this occurring, and by no means outlines that players will have their sanction removed. So far as I can tell, there is no inconsistency between this and the show cause notices issued. Without having any sort of legal inclination, these show cause notices seem to me to be just a part of the process of establishing innocence and guilt on a player to player basis, yet the media has reacted to them as though they were accusatory in nature.

But so if all of these 34 players are 'completely innocent' Peter, what does that make David Zaharakis, who refused to be injected? More 'completely innocent'? If they receive the same punishment, I'd argue that it sets a dangerous precedent for years to come, and moreover makes our sport look amateurish.

[lemmon]

Fully agree with the two previous posts. Ignorance is simply not an excuse. You'd have to be absolutely stupid as an AFL player now to not be independently checking every last syringe club sports scientists are poking at them. The more I think about it, the more I come to think the AFLPA are one of the more negligent parties in this. There has been very little attempt to both protect the Essendon footballers or stop this happening in the future.

If I was Luke Ball I would be demanding a complete review of all substances clubs are using, I would demand they are independently tested to make sure they are what they are supposed to be, are above board and I would demand that all new substances are independently approved prior to use on players. The use of supplements must be brought out into the open, we would be absolutely naive to thing Essendon are the only club doing things in the dark, as the crime commission report alluded to.

The second thing is why as the 'players union' have the AFLPA not stepped in, in terms of legal representation? A large chunk of those union members face bans due to the negligent action of their employee, it's as simple as that. In any other industry this is the point where a union steps in and takes action, why are the players still being represented under the banner of the Essendon football club? Essendon has admitted it has no idea what went into their bodies and it acted negligently, the last thing I'd want as a player would to be represented by them. The AFLPA has been far too silent on the issue, Essendon is an employer that has treated its employees with absolute negligence.

[Hotdog60]

I'm really over all this, if ASADA has the proof just get on with it and issue the penalties. If the proof isn't strong enough to issue the penalties then be done with it.
As for Essendon and the men at the helm have they been punish enough?
They get kicked out of the finals in which most likely would have been out in the first week and some loss at draft time, also the head coach gets an all expense paid holiday for a year to catch up on some study and leisure.
The Brownlow medal still hangs around the neck of a man who admitted to taking something that equates to cheating as that years best and fairest.
If the proof is there apply the bans and lets move on.

[KT31]

I love Peters passion and agree on him with most issues but on this one a cannot agree.
I agree the players and trainers have had enough suffering , but Dank, Hird and Co have got away with very light or no penalties.
Glad the AFL weren't the one who had to penalise James Hardie.

[bulldogtragic]

Gerard Whateley has been saying for the longest time track and field, and cycling figures in Australian support have been outraged by this saga as an apparent double standard because they'd be banned already. I'd love to hear from these athletes more regularly to get the point across. Zero tolerance to eradicate behaviours or actions means sometimes bans seem harsh, but in the wider context the greater good for the sports and for us that pay to watch them is that it demands zero tolerance.

[bornadog]

I am not trying to justify players taking illegal substances or non illegal substances, but one thing I can understand is how it can happen. Unlike other instances of illegal drug use, such as the discuss thrower or a cyclist, a swimmer etc, this is very different in that a whole team is involved. I can just imagine, the club calls in the whole 34 players (or whatever the number) and says we have checked this out with ASADA and we are ok with injecting such and such into your body. Everyone in the room says yeah yeah I am in it.

Punishment must be dished out, but boy its a difficult one when they believed it wasn't illegal.

[josie]

Great post Scorlibo.

[Sedat]

With all due respect to Gordon, why are we commenting? I don't really see the need for us to be involved, the comments just read as if we're worried about what's coming for Stew and trying to cover his backside.

Nail. Hammer. Head. We have a self-interest in this situation in the form of Stewart Crameri. Kochie has also been more vocal than any of the other presidents with Monfries on their list.

[1eyedog]

Vlad got out in order to limit the the damage to his reputation in the longer term.

The problem with Essendon is that it is soooo hard to feel sorry for them. Paul Little being so defiant and arrogant in front of the media does not imbue the casual observer with a sense of sympathy.

[Topdog]

They've already been severely punished to me.

Missed no football, not financially impacted at all. If you have committed sexual harassment at work you may well have it hanging over your head for a few months before it is dealt with. Does those few months negate the need for an actual punishment? No IMO.

I think it's important we hear from intelligent people on the matter. A huge amount of the people getting air play have agendas to run.

Though I must say I don't agree with him. Players under the WADA/ASADA code are responsible for what goes into their bodies and this is a key tenet of the code. If it's found the TB4 was used then they need to receive some form of suspension.

Having said that, I don't think in this case the penalty of two years fits the crime, nor does six months really though that's the code, and the players have signed up to it.

Unfortunately Peter also has an agenda to run and that is to get one of his players off. Agree with the rest of your, Greys and Scorlibos posts on this thread.

[jeemak]

Missed no football, not financially impacted at all. If you have committed sexual harassment at work you may well have it hanging over your head for a few months before it is dealt with. Does those few months negate the need for an actual punishment? No IMO.

Unfortunately Peter also has an agenda to run and that is to get one of his players off. Agree with the rest of your, Greys and Scorlibos posts on this thread.

Yes he does, for sure.

[chef]

Missed no football, not financially impacted at all. If you have committed sexual harassment at work you may well have it hanging over your head for a few months before it is dealt with. Does those few months negate the need for an actual punishment? No IMO.

The players have now had 2 seasons destroyed, thats more than what they deserved IMO.

Reid, Hird and Dank are the ones who should be still pursued and punished further.

[Happy Days]

The players have now had 2 seasons destroyed, thats more than what they deserved IMO.

Reid, Hird and Dank are the ones who should be still pursued and punished further.

If they get off I'm out.

[bornadog]

If they get off I'm out.

Innocent till proven guilty