Dickson vs Grant

[GVGjr]

It's hard for me to see both Tory Dickson and Jarrad Grant being played in the same forward line in the senior side unless there are a couple of injuries or Crameri is out for a while.

To be honest, I find it hard to squeeze both of them into our best forward set-up at the moment but I'd go with Dickson. Both of them are good players though but in the new requirement world of having versatile players under the Beveridge mantra neither strike as genuine versatile options despite what we might read.

Grant has more upside to his game but is far from a consistent performer. He is also a player that is hard to define the role he could play in the forward line because at 192cm he still isn't regarded as a tall and is seen more as a mid sized or even small forward option by many.

Dickson is more consistent and is certainly regarded as a mid sized forward and there are no Grant like discussions of what type of forward he is.

So I have a few questions for the WOOF community:

1) Which player out of Grant or Dickson is more likely to command a spot in our round one team?

2) Can we play both of them in our forward line for much of the season?

3) Can either player offer much more versatility to the side than primarily being a forward?

4) Come the end of the season which of them has the better season?


To help the discussion it would be good to get responses with some reasons behind your answers.

[Maddog37]

On yesterday's performances I would have Dickson in front of Grant.

[kruder]

I think Dickson will play every week for mine particularly with a full preseason and good form on the board already. With the demographic of our list heavily skewed towards youth he becomes a really important player and hopefully his body is finally ready to handle a full AFL season. With Dahl set for some serious midfield minutes, Hunter and Stinger also, I think there is room for a permanant small/med forward spot along side Boyd,Crameri and Redpath. He is just a natural forward and for mine can kick 30 goals this year.

Grant is such a confidence player if we want to see him improve he needs to start round 1. He is a player that just does not benefit from time in the VFL and I would like to see him given 6 weeks to start the season to see what he can do. It was really disappointing to see him hurt his ankle early last year as it just set him back again. I actually think Crameri will be suspended in the early rounds hence it opens a spot up for Grant and the rest is up to him.

[Rocco Jones]

Dickson vs Grant is an interesting one. We have a pack of young small forward nipping at their heels however the duo. The chasing pack are the modern forward flank/wing types whereas Dickson and Grant really are throwbacks to me. Come Round 1 I think we will need to play at least one of the pair as they offer us maturity (for lack of a better word).

Reasons I like Grant over Dickson
- Grant's explosive speed means he can offer defensive pressure. When he is up, I see his as very dangerous in this area.
- I think he is a better option in terms of goal chains/bringing in his team mates with quick hands.
- When he is going, a much more all round forward than Dickson (anyone on our list I guess). Offers us a quality small and medium-tallish forward in one.
- Both players won't get the ball much anyway, might as well gamble on the guy who can be very good at AFL at his best.

Reasons I like Dickson over Grant
- Because I have to say 'when he is up/at his best' etc so often for Grant.
- Both players won't get the ball much anyway, might as well go for the guy who will be clever enough to kick a couple of goals.

[Rocco Jones]

I know I went 4 reasons vs 2 but reason 1 for Dickson carries most points! I rate Grant more than Dickson due to upside but I think Dickson is more Round 1 ready.

[Maddog37]

Until Grant starts taking marks he will not be of value.

[Greystache]

When Dickson plays he kicks goals, doesn't matter who we're playing or who his opponent is. He's had limited opportunities due to injury, but if he can stay fit he'll be up there in the goal kicking. This is his 4th season and we know what he offers.

Grant is in his 8th season and we're still getting excited over the occasion quick handball as a sign of the potential he may have. He hasn't improved in 5 years, and has always struggled against a quality opponent. He just isn't good enough to be an AFL player.

Dickson is a better mark, better kick, fitter, and more consistent. Grant does something flashy once a month. Dickson every day of the week for me.

[jeemak]

When fit I think Dickson has consistently influenced games on the scoreboard more than most players on our list. His big issue is work rate and making sure he works defensively once the other team has it. I understand that he's not as versatile as other players on our list however, I think goal scoring ability is going to be an extremely valuable commodity this year and next at least, considering Gia's retirement and the likelihood our midfield might struggle to get the upper hand since Libba's injury, alongside the loss of Gryfin et al.

I really struggle to see a future with us for Grant. In his eighth year on our list he's found himself battling for a spot among mid and small sized forwards, all of whom seem to have attributes he doesn't (work rate, ability to run continuously). There's no question talent wise, I just don't think he has the body and head for the game.

Overall, interesting comparison as I think they're the only players on our list to have kicked six goals in a game.

[Hotdog60]

When Dickson plays he kicks goals, doesn't matter who we're playing or who his opponent is. He's had limited opportunities due to injury, but if he can stay fit he'll be up there in the goal kicking. This is his 4th season and we know what he offers.

Grant is in his 8th season and we're still getting excited over the occasion quick handball as a sign of the potential he may have. He hasn't improved in 5 years, and has always struggled against a quality opponent. He just isn't good enough to be an AFL player.

Dickson is a better mark, better kick, fitter, and more consistent. Grant does something flashy once a month. Dickson every day of the week for me.

I tend to agree, Grant is a tease and has been for a long while. Dickson is more consistent but less versatile. I'll lean towards Dickson.

But I do like Grant but I wish he would do more, more often.

[azabob]

Interesting question - To me it is a case of the sexy V the non sexy.

Grant has a full bag of tricks, but gee whiz they are few and far between in actually coming out of the bag.

Dickson on the other hand always seems to chime in with anywhere from one to four goals a game.

For round one I'd have Dickson ahead of Grant. Both appear to have had a full pre-season, however Dickson appears slightly ahead form wise, if we look purely at goals kicked.

With all things being equal (no injuries) I can't see a spot for both players in the forward line. Especially now Luke Beveridge is pushing the theme everyone needs to be able to play in multiple positions and the arrival of Boyd and the good form of Redpath. Then there is Stringer, Crameri, Bontiempelli, Hrovat, Hunter etc.

Neither of these players appear to be able to play in multiple positions on the ground which will hurt them and I think will result in them not playing as games as perhaps VFL form dictates, especially in Dickson's case.

For Grant to succeed he needs to be in a well drilled, well performing team, otherwise he really struggles to get into the game.
Where as Dickson may only get half a dozen opportunities per game, yet he'll still kick one to two goals.

Come the end of the season, I will be very surprised if Grant is still on our list, let alone in our team - regardless of how we are travelling.

As Jeemak alluded to Dickson might be able to play stay at home role Gia played so well - However I am not sure of Dickson's leadership or ability to tell players where to go etc. during the game.

[Bulldog Joe]

Very interesting comparison.

For me Dickson offers more reliability and does consistently hit the scoreboard. However, he does not seem to have the ability to bring others into the game and consequently he does need to score those goals to be a contributor.

Grant is the enigma. He does have talent and can really bring others into the game. With his ability he could easily make himself a very important part of the team. It is up to him.

From a selection position I would take Dickson, but Grant can be a much better player when he brings his best. Grant would also benefit greatly from our forward line having more options as he is likely to get a lesser opponent.

So while I would choose Dickson, I really hope that Grant just demands a spot with form

[Maddog37]

Dickson looks fitter to me this year. He appears to be covering more ground and his speed has taken me by surprise on more than one occasion. At training on Thursday I thought he looked completely uninterested but then when they went into contested work he looked fantastic and a step above most.

[Before I Die]

Over their respective careers Grant has averaged 1.2 goals a game and Dickson 1.4 which is not a great difference. Both had 2014 ruined by injury. If Grant had kicked straight in the VFL GF he would have probably been Best on Ground. If the question was who do you hope cements their place in the team, then it has to be Grant, his upside is so much more. As for who is in front right now, the next few weeks will determine that.

I actually suspect that Grant's tendency to rove rather than contest pack marks is a coaching instruction to make use of his clean hands at ground level. I also think a few posters have invested a little too heavily in Grant's ultimate failure and subsequently struggle with objectivity, though, this is an opinion board, and all I can do is offer my own.

[F'scary]

1) Which player out of Grant or Dickson is more likely to command a spot in our round one team?

If we are talking about the FP position, then Dickson. If we are talking about HFF, maybe Grant

2) Can we play both of them in our forward line for much of the season?

If they are both in good form, then yes.

3) Can either player offer much more versatility to the side than primarily being a forward?

I think this has to be Grant. In his late 2013 purple patch, he was getting damaging possessions outside of the 50m arc.

4) Come the end of the season which of them has the better season?

Too hard to say right now. But Dickson will be primarily evaluated by goals per game; Grant more by involvement: possession per game.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Dickson is more consistent and typically kicks a goal or two per game, but it masks a lot of his flaws. He isn't great defensively - which appears to be more of a work rate/mental thing, because at times he's shown he can apply it. Secondly, he is the least versatile player on our list and really struggles to find the ball. 10 years ago Dickson would have been a very handy player but I don't think he can cope with the demands of AFL football in 2015. You need to do much more than kick 1-2 goals a game and have 8 possessions.

Having said that, at this early stage he's ahead of Grant who for all his flashy potential isn't consistent, can't find the ball enough and isn't versatile. I'm not sure of the exact role we have for him, but I'd like to see us play Grant as a crumber to Boyd/Redpath - it means he doesn't have to go finding the ball (which he struggles with) but will be forced to stay involved regularly given that our entries will run through Redpath/Boyd with great regularity.

I expect both to be given their 4-5 weeks to cement a position, but neither will play 16+ games.